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|>>|| No. 411294
Why haven't we got a thread on this yet? It's going to prove a turning point in Britsh history.
|>>|| No. 411296
Brief moment of /boo/: The fairly safe Tory seat of Kensington just fell to Labour on a majority of 20. Many of the residents will likely be rehoused outside the borough.
|>>|| No. 411300
The outcome of the enquiry could lead to a huge culture-shift in the areas of building regulation and in the spending of public money on private contractors.
The potential upheaval of building regulations is particularly relevant now as we are faced with the prospect of the great repeal bill (writing EU regulations into UK law).
|>>|| No. 411301
The death toll will increase a lot, the local council and some posho property tycoons will come under the microscope. Evil slag Theresa will be pushed out by the fall out.
|>>|| No. 411302
The enquiry will find the management organisation (a non profit) was negligent and that'll be the end of it.
|>>|| No. 411303
Holy shit sandwich, Lilly Allen says there could be as many 150 dead! What the fuck?!
Also she's look pretty fit with that haircut, like a regular Jack Monroe.
|>>|| No. 411304
Yeah if you look at the layout of a residential floor like the show on the BBC site I think you are not far off if I'm doing my maths right
We got our 9/11
|>>|| No. 411307
It's never the fault of a single individual or organisation.
I guarantee that the judge will present a whole catalogue of unrelated failures, which all playing a small incremental part in leading to this tragedy.
It could involve everything from the underlying regulations, to the tendering process for the refurbishment, the role of the council, the role of building inspectors, the role of insurers, the role of the Eastern European labourer doing the work and the English supervisors who knocked off early down to the pub, the role of the architects, the role manufacturers of the cladding etc.
|>>|| No. 411308
I think you're taking the piss, but aren't fridges the number one "thing that actually does just catch on fire and explode" in most people's houses?
|>>|| No. 411309
Also for the sake of anyone who hasn't been following the story:
The original cause of the fire is a fairly trivial matter in this case. Fires happen every day up and down the country. The most important issue here is why the fire so rapidly spread to the entire building, it was meant to have been designed so that any fire will remain contained to a single flat for at least an hour with the door closed, and even with a door open the fire shouldn't be able to spread quickly up the stairwell.
Most of the attention is currently pointing towards the refurbishment of the building several years ago.
|>>|| No. 411310
No, lad. You're thinking of chip pans, candles left on, cigarettes on settees and tumble dryers made by Whirlpool.
|>>|| No. 411311
The fire brigade gave up around half a dozen floors shy of the top, and given the advice to STAY INDOORS and eyewitness accounts of the state of the building, it's safe to say that anyone beyond that is probably dead. 17 confirmed so far but I don't think they've even tried to examine the parts they missed yet. There are probably five or six flats on each floor, so assume around 15-20 living in each, so triple digits is a definite possibility.
|>>|| No. 411312
Of course, and they're all the constituent parts to a pretty mean bomb, right?
It doesn't even seem to have been "refurbished", just given a lick of paint. And then clad in fucking jet fuel or some shit.
|>>|| No. 411315
>It doesn't even seem to have been "refurbished", just given a lick of paint. And then clad in fucking jet fuel or some shit.
It was fairly extensive. Some parts were remodelled entirely, I think to the extent of knocking down and rebuilding walls. New ventilation and utilities were also installed, all of which probably involved drilling holes through walls and ceilings which should have been fire and smoke-proofed afterwards.
Wandering slightly away from the topic, there's a nice group of materials called intumescents. These are materials which when exposed to fire, puff up to many times their original volume, which tightly fills and insulates any gaps. In a properly fire-proofed building you'll find intumescent seals absolutely everywhere, such as around doors, in letterboxes, and where water pipes pass through walls.
They look a bit like those crappy indoor fireworks everyone loves.
I expect that one of the findings of the inquiry will be that the architect specified the correct materials, but then either a bean-counter at the contractors changed the plans to save money, or they ran out on site and sent someone down to screwfix with a company credit card.
>>411307 ugh, sorry for all the typos in that post.
|>>|| No. 411318
I hope you improve your miserable world view and regret all that you did wrong prior to then.
|>>|| No. 411322
>These are materials which when exposed to fire, puff up to many times their original volume, which tightly fills and insulates any gaps.
That's fucking cool. Like some sort of auto-sealant for spaceships against the vacuum except actually useful on a large scale.
|>>|| No. 411331
A turning point in high-rise design, perhaps. But all this other noise is just a hangover from the election.
|>>|| No. 411332
Reports that the cladding was banned in America and Germany. And that the actual fire-retardant versions were only 2 quid more each.
|>>|| No. 411333
I think we'll see violent protests this weekend, London especially was reaching boiling point before the election and now the added fallout of this, and the poor handling of it by the government so far, perceived to be downplaying the number of dead etc... is just increasing tensions further.
|>>|| No. 411334
A repeat of the 2011 riots are a real possibility at this stage. The grief is starting to turn into anger, particularly in the Black British community. A lot of Londoners have felt for some time that there is a war against the poor. Housing has been the key issue and this could be a crystallising moment. The election campaign has switched on a lot of young people to the possibility of change. All sorts of conspiracy theories have been rattling about, but the clearest sentiment is this:
If the investigation shows that the cladding had a major role in the fire, I really wouldn't be surprised if it all kicked off.
|>>|| No. 411339
Regards of if they do I imagine the Facebook fake news rumour mill will just make up shit to say that they did. I can picture the bad 'another angry voice' jpg now and Johnathan Pie yelling how this is all because of our corrupt western non-russian satilite government.
|>>|| No. 411340
You do realise Jonathan Pie is a fictional character and is intended to be satirical, right?
|>>|| No. 411341
The ones used suited our regulations for fire safety. It's those regs that seem to be at fault.
|>>|| No. 411342
> It's going to prove a turning point in Britsh history.
I'm really not sure why or how it would be.
|>>|| No. 411343
Teresa May's popularity has collapsed since the election, with a commensurate increase in the popularity of Jeremy Corbyn. A lot of moderate, reasonable people are rejecting the Tory argument that austerity is a necessary part of responsible government. There's a huge groundswell of frustration in London about the substandard quality and high cost of housing - a frustration that extends from the very poorest to the professional classes.
The Grenfell fire is a grotesque, totemic example of everything Corbyn argues is wrong with Britain. An indifferent and cost-cutting management agency botched the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower. Fire protection systems and basic maintenance were ignored, while cladding was added to make the building less of an eyesore for wealthy residents in the surrounding area. That cladding is strongly suspected of causing the fire to spread so quickly. To save a mere £5000, the building was clad in flammable rather than flame-retardant panels. The concerns of the residents about fire safety were not only ignored but actively suppressed - the council threatened Grenfell Action Group with a libel lawsuit.
There's a real possibility that the Grenfell fire could catalyse a sea change in political attitudes. I've been talking to a lot of people who have gone from resignation to anger over the last few days. They have seen these horrific events and said to themselves "enough is enough". They see Theresa May as anything but strong and stable - daft militant wog attacks, a pointless election, a hung parliament with no coalition, huge uncertainty over Brexit and now a horrific disaster.
Stagnant wages, rising costs and a barebones public sector might have been a price worth paying for stability, but now we don't even have stability. They're struggling to pay the bills and they can't get a doctor's appointment. They're worried about being murdered in the street or being incinerated in their beds. They don't see the government doing a damned thing to fix it. They're ready to take a gamble on a different way of doing things, because they don't see how things could get much worse.
|>>|| No. 411345
Is this song in poor taste right now?
My coworker thought so when he witnessed me listening to it on my computer this morning.
|>>|| No. 411350
Typical behaviour of the riff-raff. The government promises to cover all their living/legal expenses and society steps up offering all the tins of soup they can eat but despite this they still demand more special treatment.
I hope the police gave them a good shooing.
|>>|| No. 411351
We've given them everything except the one thing that would make them happy.
|>>|| No. 411353
I was just listening to a random playlist, so no, I wasn't consciously trying to mock the victims of the fire.
I am deeply shocked by the events myself. My ex had a half brother whose dad had died in a fire. But I think it's annoying when all of a sudden a song is thought to be in poor taste by some people just because something tragic has happened which by sheer coincidence certain lyrics can be misconstrued as making light of. This song is almost 30 years old and deals with the plights of native Australians, for fucks sake.
|>>|| No. 411356
A lynchmob isn't going to bring anyone back from the dead either, but that seems to be the way things are heading.
|>>|| No. 411357
Eh. There are times when a proper revolt is necessary. You sound like southern whites who used to scream at the blacks for their protests.
|>>|| No. 411361
I wonder if this had happened pre-election if tin-foilers would be proclaiming this a Labour party false flag, like they did with the terror attacks to the Conservatives.
|>>|| No. 411363
That was privately rented. Most of the flats were council-owned and rented out at well below market rates. Grenfell Tower was in one of the poorest 10% of boroughs in the country. The vast majority of the residents in Grenfell were ordinary working people who were struggling to get by.
They've got the logistics in place to have thousands of placards made at short notice. Most people wouldn't know where to start. It's a bit opportunistic by the SWP, but no other bugger is going to do it.
No, but it might shock central government and the GLA into actually doing something about a very long-standing issue. The vast majority of Londoners are angry and frustrated about the housing situation. There are a thousands of people living in blocks just like Grenfell, from council tenants on the minimum wage to professionals who paid £250,000 for a one-bed flat. They all went to bed last night wondering if they're living in a deathtrap.
Grenfell residents had been complaining for years about the lack of fire safety in their building. Their concerns were systematically ignored by the local authority, the government and the media. The anger we're seeing isn't going to subside until real action is taken to prevent another tragedy.
|>>|| No. 411364
>No, but it might shock central government and the GLA into actually doing something about a very long-standing issue.
I don't think this will point towards the housing issues in any constructive way, it will just simply lead to knee jerk increased regulation over fire safety to please the mob, regardless of the relivance, as almost certainly the Tower wasn't up to code through no fault of the regulations themselves but as a result of negligence.
|>>|| No. 411365
You do realise he is paid for by putin right. He isn't supposed to be satirical to be made fun of more satirical like private eye is.
|>>|| No. 411366
Mate, they might be brown, but they are still poor like us. No need to be a racist, comrade.
|>>|| No. 411368
>it will just simply lead to knee jerk increased regulation over fire safety to please the mob
Yeah, I mean what kind of idiot even wants their home to be safe in the event of a fire next door?
|>>|| No. 411369
>The anger we're seeing isn't going to subside until real action is taken to prevent another tragedy.
The same anger that happened after the Lakanal fire in 2009?
|>>|| No. 411370
Summary & Exclusions:
- No DSS / Housing Benefit Applicants
- No Students
- No Pets, sorry
- No Smokers
- Not Suitable for Families / Children
- Bills not included
- No Parking Available
- No Garden Access
Why no students? Are they too loud or what?
|>>|| No. 411372
The wheels of justice already exist, and I expect there to be corporate manslaughter trials. You sound like one of those tumblirites who doesn't seem to understand there are already laws against rape, rapists simply ignore them, and we can magicaly make rape not exist by making more absurdly knee jerk laws.
|>>|| No. 411377
Have you ever rented before? Most places I've seen advertised exclude students. Combination of factors - students are poorer, are less likely to stay in the same place long-term and are more likely to trash the place.
|>>|| No. 411378
Kek, brits. In vastly superior germany styrofoam cladding is completely illegal to fit on the facades of houses taller than 22m (the height of the ladders on the firetrucks).
Why is the rest of the world so shit?
|>>|| No. 411380
Not sure about the rest of the world but in the UK it's all this cunt's fault. Fuck Thatcher, she was my childhood bogeyman but she was childsplay compaired to this fucking incubus. When this cunt finally dies a painful death, impaled upon the battlements of pomposity of his own personal pseudo-religious alamo I will gloriously belt one out right over a photo from the Times of his grieving wife and kids. What a cunt.
|>>|| No. 411382
When you rub it, it makes me go mental like scratching a blackboard does to people. My teeth hurt and I just feel like either fucking off or attacking the source of the sound. Since muder is illegal, I just fuck off mostly.
|>>|| No. 411386
Was The Sun considered right wing when New Labour were in power? I can't actually remember.
|>>|| No. 411387
To a substantial extent, yes. They backed Blair, but it was wholly opportunistic by both sides. Blair actively courted the Murdoch press in the run-up to the 1997 election, as part of his bid for dominance over the middle ground. On his part, Murdoch saw a pro-privatisation, pro-markets leader who was likely to win a landslide. The traditional left were lukewarm at best about Blair; the likes of Benn and Foot saw him as a Tory wrecker from the start.
Murdoch has always been more concerned with having influence over the government than with supporting any particular party. During the Blair years, the Tories were almost irrelevant as a political force.
At the Leveson inquiry, Alistair Campbell vigorously denied that there was any explicit deal between Murdoch and Blair, so there was almost certainly an explicit deal between Murdoch and Blair.
|>>|| No. 411388
>You sound like southern whites who used to scream at the blacks for their protests.
Now you listen here young sowsnek, I will not tolerate such besmirching of the Cornish community as part of your anti-Darkie Day agenda. We are a strong community that will not be broken by fake history! .o/
You see this is why Corbyn rubs me in such a wrong way. Of course the public would support requisitioning if there was an overriding need but this is not one of those situations and he is pouring fuel on the fire to even suggest it. Given the public ignorance I would even suggest that our allegedly moral superhero is cynically exploiting the public mood.
This country has a intricate system of nets to catch people in housing need that works 365 days a year, not just when the papers are talking about it. His talk is either a frankly teen-lad attempt to egg people on to breaking into peoples property or an attempt to normalise requisitioning which is very much an emergency power for wartime. Neither option is particularly clever given it could spark riots or worse still form part of his manifesto.
|>>|| No. 411389
Is this a distortion by the Daily Mail? I've read the quote and it looks to me like they are reporting exactly what was said just for the audience affected rather than the one he is trying to please.
What am I missing here? Is it just that it is critical of his position, that doesn't make sense.
|>>|| No. 411390
Yes we need homes but in this case the idea is to not displace them from the area where they live while a permanent solution is found.
|>>|| No. 411391
Theresa May is doing it to herself, lad. She is the one who can no longer mask her incompetence as political leader of the UK. And once protest has reached a critical mass, these right wing rags would be dumb not to jump on the bandwagon. They are deeply opportunist themselves, meaning they will not gang up in such a way on somebody who is well liked and respected.
People like Margaret Thatcher, for example, may have been vastly unpopular with many people as well, but the difference is that Thatcher had staying power. And she was just politically smarter than May. Thatcher wouldn't have gambled her career on a needless election which would then have blown up in her face. Her publicity stunts were more along the lines of invading a tiny archipelago in the southern hemisphere against an underequipped Argentinian army.
Theresa May is a political also-ran who in a fluke suddenly found herself in the office of Prime Minister. And who is now painfully realising that the gloves are off by default in a position like that. And she isn't cut out for the kind of backlash that a Prime Minister sometimes has to deal with.
|>>|| No. 411392
>What am I missing here? Is it just that it is critical of his position, that doesn't make sense.
Consider that this comes from a place calling itself 'Evolve Politics'. It's not meant to hold under any scrutiny but cause knee-jerk idiots to hit share on their social media.
|>>|| No. 411393
But I don't even understand why someones knee would jerk at that. What is it that they think is propaganda here?
|>>|| No. 411394
>Yes we need homes but in this case the idea is to not displace them from the area where they live while a permanent solution is found.
In the unlikely scenario where they need to live locally but no suitable accommodation can be found then it will show in the compo. Again though I find it hard to believe that those in need won't be able to find accommodation or why they are so special that requisitioning okay now.
|>>|| No. 411397
There is a certain breed of person who will lament the foreign aid budget on the grounds money should be spent sorting out poor people back here in the UK, who in light of this tragedy accuse everybody else of Marxism or whatever for wanting to help the poor here.
|>>|| No. 411398
>Theresa May is doing it to herself, lad. She is the one who can no longer mask her incompetence as political leader of the UK.
I don't really disagree. She managed to maintain the appearance of presidentiality of a while, but the veneer of competence started to wear thin in the last few weeks of the election campaign. I think it's becoming clear to the right that she isn't right for the job and she needs replacing pronto, before a bungled Brexit tears apart the Tory party.
May was never particularly popular, but she was seen as a safe pair of hands; her only real redeeming feature has completely disintegrated, and with it her electoral prospects.
Many of the residents of Grenfell Tower were being "encouraged" to move out of London before the disaster. There is a justifiable level of mistrust over the intentions of the local authority and central government. If the displaced people end up scattered to the four winds, the government will be providing ammunition for the conspiracy theorists. I don't support requisitioning, but I think it would be reasonable to apply a punitive level of tax on vacant properties to fund social housing.
|>>|| No. 411399
>But I don't even understand why someones knee would jerk at that. What is it that they think is propaganda here?
There is, then, much to be hopeful about. And among a vocal minority of online celebrants, post-election joy has been accompanied by entirely understandable triumphalism. Haters, doubters and sceptics have been rounded on. Journalists with any history of disbelief or hostility should apparently resign or be sacked. Labour MPs who once wanted Corbyn to quit should be reciting the socialist equivalent of Hail Marys, and burying any hopes of a return to the shadow cabinet. Those who fixated on Labour’s recent losses in local elections or the Copeland byelection are retrospectively deemed guilty of abject pessimism.
Of course, there are media people and politicians whose view of Corbyn and his supporters was hostile and mocking from the start. If they are now switching on their phone to find daily explosions of ridicule and bile, I am sure they can take it: this is the sport they chose. What’s much more questionable is the way the same vengeful attitude is extended to anyone who ever portrayed the last two years of Labour politics in terms of doubt, concern and malaise, and who are being similarly instructed to say sorry for their alleged heresy or be escorted from the building.
Corbynites have been emboldened by the manner in which they lost the general election and now feel vindicated. They're now in overdrive.
|>>|| No. 411400
>I think it would be reasonable to apply a punitive level of tax on vacant properties to fund social housing.
Even the Economist has been advocating for years a vacant plot tax, it is completely non-controversial and beside the point.
|>>|| No. 411401
They tore down my mum's council estate and wanted to send her off to Preston because "there weren't any housing" in the borough she lived in for nearly 50 years. Local councils, and the government for that matter, hate their poorer residents.
|>>|| No. 411402
The Momentumistas have started to recede into the background as Corbyn gains mainstream support. They're angry and vocal, especially on the internet, but they aren't all that relevant. Corbyn realised a bit too late that he needed to listen to his spin doctors and work on his image. He has distanced himself from McDonnell and sent Abbott off on "sick leave". He's in the process of reconciling with the New Labour backbenchers and putting together a decent shadow cabinet.
There has been a genuine transformation of the Labour party in the last few weeks. Corbyn has abandoned the mindset of being a radical voice in opposition and is now sincerely working towards being in government. Compare his recent interviews with those from a few months ago and you'll see that there has been a huge shift in tone and presentation. Success in the polls might have fired up the radical left, but it's also what will allow the Labour party to marginalise them.
|>>|| No. 411403
>Corbyn has abandoned the mindset of being a radical voice in opposition and is now sincerely working towards being in government.
He never wanted to do this, it's complete make believe.
|>>|| No. 411404
Meanwhile, the former Mayor conducts an in-depth probing. This very matter being the premise of his career, we are sure to expect pozitive outcomes. For now he takes the back, but we expect him to see to any means and ends in time.
|>>|| No. 411405
The LSE did a study that dispelled the idea that there are swathes of vacant rich houses.
|>>|| No. 411408
.. yeah, some statistical-deviation single digit amount of empty properties. Just the number picking to be expected from a City Boy bootcamp. Pick any wealthy borough at random lad, and Notting Hill in particular, have a long, aimless walk. I did yesterday. Even worse in Highgate, really obvious in the West of Zone 2. Plenty of villas boarded up for 'refurbishment' that grows over by now.
Empty high streets and the bare minimum of hi-vis chaps to deter my nightly drawing sessions. Paranoid, angry toffs behind V&A that moan for private police. Oil money developments past Greenwich and on the wrong river side never even had the wrapping removed. None of the Banlieues there even ask for a Heimlich maneuver, since zero infrastructure or transport exists, and there is shitty industry just outside. Nothing but a set-up to launder cash.
You know what else the LSE said? The people who buy these properties are from bronze-tier Asian countries, and have the same trouble as our first time buyers. WORKING CLASS MILLIONAIRES. Thus we can now disregard any of the biweekly stories about shell company set-ups for Slavcrooks and third sons of oil princes, holiday mansions, party villas.
It is of course also in that survey, on no unclear terms, that nothing is easier than to fake occupancy. As a Russian, this is a going thing - if you're the type that can live with being on camera, getting kicked out on a whim, and being responsible for more garish, breaky things than you could afford in your life.
TL/DR: study claims its premises were what the owners told them.
|>>|| No. 411410
I fucking knew not to trust some rich boy institution.
In any case, you can't just go around and take properties by force. That will undo our society, but it would be great to tax the living shite out of them. I would tax them so badly that it would become attractive for them to pay people to live in their empty properties. I would go as far as to tax the shite out of people buying a second home too (something like 33%).
|>>|| No. 411411
It used to be that you didn't pay council tax on properties that were left empty, but now councils have discretion on what discount to allow if any at all. Unsurprisingly, most councils have opted to charge full rate, not so much as a matter of public policy but rather because it makes them more money.
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