[ rss / options / help ]
post ]
[ b / iq / g / zoo ] [ e / news / lab ] [ v / nom / pol / eco / emo / 101 / shed ]
[ art / A / beat / boo / com / fat / job / lit / map / mph / poof / £$€¥ / spo / uhu / uni / x / y ] [ * | sfw | o ]
logo
random

Return ] Entire Thread ] First 100 posts ] Last 50 posts ]

Posting mode: Reply
Reply ]
Subject   (reply to 411294)
Message
File  []
close
image.jpg
411294411294411294
>> No. 411294 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 6:16 pm
411294 Grenfell Tower
Why haven't we got a thread on this yet? It's going to prove a turning point in Britsh history.
Expand all images.
>> No. 411295 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 6:33 pm
411295 spacer
>>411294

Why's it so significant?
>> No. 411296 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 6:42 pm
411296 spacer
Brief moment of /boo/: The fairly safe Tory seat of Kensington just fell to Labour on a majority of 20. Many of the residents will likely be rehoused outside the borough.
>> No. 411297 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 6:42 pm
411297 spacer
>>411295

It isn't.
>> No. 411298 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 6:43 pm
411298 spacer
>>411295
It's not.
>> No. 411299 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 6:44 pm
411299 spacer
>>411294
I think the death toll is going to increase, a lot.
>> No. 411300 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:05 pm
411300 spacer
>>411295
The outcome of the enquiry could lead to a huge culture-shift in the areas of building regulation and in the spending of public money on private contractors.

The potential upheaval of building regulations is particularly relevant now as we are faced with the prospect of the great repeal bill (writing EU regulations into UK law).
>> No. 411301 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:05 pm
411301 spacer

image.jpg
411301411301411301
>>411299

The death toll will increase a lot, the local council and some posho property tycoons will come under the microscope. Evil slag Theresa will be pushed out by the fall out.
>> No. 411302 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:12 pm
411302 spacer
>>411300
The enquiry will find the management organisation (a non profit) was negligent and that'll be the end of it.
>> No. 411303 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:26 pm
411303 spacer
Holy shit sandwich, Lilly Allen says there could be as many 150 dead! What the fuck?!

Also she's look pretty fit with that haircut, like a regular Jack Monroe.
>> No. 411304 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:28 pm
411304 spacer
>>411303

Yeah if you look at the layout of a residential floor like the show on the BBC site I think you are not far off if I'm doing my maths right

We got our 9/11
>> No. 411305 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:31 pm
411305 spacer
>>411304

Have you got a link and button on your keyboard with a full stop on it?
>> No. 411306 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:37 pm
411306 spacer

4171959000000578-4606078-image-a-118_1497538109658.jpg
411306411306411306
The fire started in the flat of a sand person. Fridges don't just catch fire and explode. It's clear he was storing the ingredients necessary to make a bomb in there and it went wrong.
>> No. 411307 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:39 pm
411307 spacer
>>411302

It's never the fault of a single individual or organisation.

I guarantee that the judge will present a whole catalogue of unrelated failures, which all playing a small incremental part in leading to this tragedy.
It could involve everything from the underlying regulations, to the tendering process for the refurbishment, the role of the council, the role of building inspectors, the role of insurers, the role of the Eastern European labourer doing the work and the English supervisors who knocked off early down to the pub, the role of the architects, the role manufacturers of the cladding etc.
>> No. 411308 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:41 pm
411308 spacer
>>411306

I think you're taking the piss, but aren't fridges the number one "thing that actually does just catch on fire and explode" in most people's houses?
>> No. 411309 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:46 pm
411309 spacer
Also for the sake of anyone who hasn't been following the story:
The original cause of the fire is a fairly trivial matter in this case. Fires happen every day up and down the country. The most important issue here is why the fire so rapidly spread to the entire building, it was meant to have been designed so that any fire will remain contained to a single flat for at least an hour with the door closed, and even with a door open the fire shouldn't be able to spread quickly up the stairwell.

Most of the attention is currently pointing towards the refurbishment of the building several years ago.
>> No. 411310 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:52 pm
411310 spacer
>>411308
No, lad. You're thinking of chip pans, candles left on, cigarettes on settees and tumble dryers made by Whirlpool.
>> No. 411311 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 7:58 pm
411311 spacer
>>411303
The fire brigade gave up around half a dozen floors shy of the top, and given the advice to STAY INDOORS and eyewitness accounts of the state of the building, it's safe to say that anyone beyond that is probably dead. 17 confirmed so far but I don't think they've even tried to examine the parts they missed yet. There are probably five or six flats on each floor, so assume around 15-20 living in each, so triple digits is a definite possibility.
>> No. 411312 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 8:00 pm
411312 spacer
>>411310

Of course, and they're all the constituent parts to a pretty mean bomb, right?

>>411309

It doesn't even seem to have been "refurbished", just given a lick of paint. And then clad in fucking jet fuel or some shit.
>> No. 411313 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 8:23 pm
411313 spacer
>>411312
But jet fuel can't cause autism on the moon from the fifth floor window.
>> No. 411315 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 8:35 pm
411315 spacer
>>411312
>It doesn't even seem to have been "refurbished", just given a lick of paint. And then clad in fucking jet fuel or some shit.

It was fairly extensive. Some parts were remodelled entirely, I think to the extent of knocking down and rebuilding walls. New ventilation and utilities were also installed, all of which probably involved drilling holes through walls and ceilings which should have been fire and smoke-proofed afterwards.

Wandering slightly away from the topic, there's a nice group of materials called intumescents. These are materials which when exposed to fire, puff up to many times their original volume, which tightly fills and insulates any gaps. In a properly fire-proofed building you'll find intumescent seals absolutely everywhere, such as around doors, in letterboxes, and where water pipes pass through walls.
They look a bit like those crappy indoor fireworks everyone loves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giy3FWhIXX8

I expect that one of the findings of the inquiry will be that the architect specified the correct materials, but then either a bean-counter at the contractors changed the plans to save money, or they ran out on site and sent someone down to screwfix with a company credit card.

>>411307 ugh, sorry for all the typos in that post.
>> No. 411316 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 8:39 pm
411316 spacer
>>411294
It's a shitty tower full of poor non-whites. Nobody gives a shit mate.
>> No. 411318 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 9:15 pm
411318 spacer
>>411316

I hope you improve your miserable world view and regret all that you did wrong prior to then.
>> No. 411320 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 10:04 pm
411320 spacer
>>411318
Why? On some level, what I said is true whether you like it or not.
>> No. 411322 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 10:36 pm
411322 spacer
>>411315
>These are materials which when exposed to fire, puff up to many times their original volume, which tightly fills and insulates any gaps.
That's fucking cool. Like some sort of auto-sealant for spaceships against the vacuum except actually useful on a large scale.
>> No. 411325 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 10:53 pm
411325 spacer
>>411322
I really hate the word "except."
>> No. 411327 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 11:10 pm
411327 spacer
>>411320

It's not true. Yours is an outsider opinion.
>> No. 411328 Anonymous
15th June 2017
Thursday 11:43 pm
411328 spacer
>>411320
Not true in the slightest.That's like your opinion man.
>> No. 411331 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 12:05 am
411331 spacer
>>411294
A turning point in high-rise design, perhaps. But all this other noise is just a hangover from the election.
>> No. 411332 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 12:27 am
411332 spacer
Reports that the cladding was banned in America and Germany. And that the actual fire-retardant versions were only 2 quid more each.
>> No. 411333 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 3:01 am
411333 spacer
I think we'll see violent protests this weekend, London especially was reaching boiling point before the election and now the added fallout of this, and the poor handling of it by the government so far, perceived to be downplaying the number of dead etc... is just increasing tensions further.
>> No. 411334 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 3:39 am
411334 spacer
>>411333

A repeat of the 2011 riots are a real possibility at this stage. The grief is starting to turn into anger, particularly in the Black British community. A lot of Londoners have felt for some time that there is a war against the poor. Housing has been the key issue and this could be a crystallising moment. The election campaign has switched on a lot of young people to the possibility of change. All sorts of conspiracy theories have been rattling about, but the clearest sentiment is this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9NWK7VOLig

If the investigation shows that the cladding had a major role in the fire, I really wouldn't be surprised if it all kicked off.
>> No. 411337 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 6:39 am
411337 spacer
>>411334

The Met have opened a criminal enquiry into the fire. I can't see the Met cocking this up at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/grenfell-tower-police-fear-they-will-not-be-able-to-identify-all-the-dead
>> No. 411339 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 10:30 am
411339 spacer
>>411337

Regards of if they do I imagine the Facebook fake news rumour mill will just make up shit to say that they did. I can picture the bad 'another angry voice' jpg now and Johnathan Pie yelling how this is all because of our corrupt western non-russian satilite government.
>> No. 411340 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 10:32 am
411340 spacer
>>411339

You do realise Jonathan Pie is a fictional character and is intended to be satirical, right?
>> No. 411341 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 12:53 pm
411341 spacer
>>411332
The ones used suited our regulations for fire safety. It's those regs that seem to be at fault.
>> No. 411342 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 1:42 pm
411342 spacer
> It's going to prove a turning point in Britsh history.

I'm really not sure why or how it would be.
>> No. 411343 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 2:26 pm
411343 spacer

Favourability June-01.png
411343411343411343
>>411342

Teresa May's popularity has collapsed since the election, with a commensurate increase in the popularity of Jeremy Corbyn. A lot of moderate, reasonable people are rejecting the Tory argument that austerity is a necessary part of responsible government. There's a huge groundswell of frustration in London about the substandard quality and high cost of housing - a frustration that extends from the very poorest to the professional classes.

The Grenfell fire is a grotesque, totemic example of everything Corbyn argues is wrong with Britain. An indifferent and cost-cutting management agency botched the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower. Fire protection systems and basic maintenance were ignored, while cladding was added to make the building less of an eyesore for wealthy residents in the surrounding area. That cladding is strongly suspected of causing the fire to spread so quickly. To save a mere £5000, the building was clad in flammable rather than flame-retardant panels. The concerns of the residents about fire safety were not only ignored but actively suppressed - the council threatened Grenfell Action Group with a libel lawsuit.

There's a real possibility that the Grenfell fire could catalyse a sea change in political attitudes. I've been talking to a lot of people who have gone from resignation to anger over the last few days. They have seen these horrific events and said to themselves "enough is enough". They see Theresa May as anything but strong and stable - daft militant wog attacks, a pointless election, a hung parliament with no coalition, huge uncertainty over Brexit and now a horrific disaster.

Stagnant wages, rising costs and a barebones public sector might have been a price worth paying for stability, but now we don't even have stability. They're struggling to pay the bills and they can't get a doctor's appointment. They're worried about being murdered in the street or being incinerated in their beds. They don't see the government doing a damned thing to fix it. They're ready to take a gamble on a different way of doing things, because they don't see how things could get much worse.
>> No. 411345 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 3:24 pm
411345 spacer
Is this song in poor taste right now?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpkGvk1rQBI

My coworker thought so when he witnessed me listening to it on my computer this morning.
>> No. 411348 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 6:03 pm
411348 spacer

DCdSjW4XgAIgKky.jpg
411348411348411348
Kensington, now
>> No. 411349 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 6:03 pm
411349 spacer
>>411345
Depends if you were listening to it as a joke or just enjoy it I'm guessing.
>> No. 411350 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 7:18 pm
411350 spacer
>>411348
Typical behaviour of the riff-raff. The government promises to cover all their living/legal expenses and society steps up offering all the tins of soup they can eat but despite this they still demand more special treatment.

I hope the police gave them a good shooing.
>> No. 411351 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 7:23 pm
411351 spacer
>>411350
We've given them everything except the one thing that would make them happy.
A scapegoat.
>> No. 411352 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 7:47 pm
411352 spacer
>>411316

Poor?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-59885887.html

Flat 112 Grenfell Tower, Grenfell Road, London, W11 1TQ - Mouseprice.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.openrent.co.uk/property-to-rent/london/2-bed-flat-grenfell-tower-w11/219191&ved=0ahUKEwiX2beegMPUAhUFOJoKHVnLCNQ4FBAWCBswAA&usg=AFQjCNGtNeRpW9hzv-7tYfRyIsV

Seems like being able to rent a property at 2k a month you are classed as being poor by those lef twing propagandists.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/have-whole-life-ahead-dont-want-die-final-call-italian-woman/
>> No. 411353 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 7:48 pm
411353 spacer
>>411349

I was just listening to a random playlist, so no, I wasn't consciously trying to mock the victims of the fire.

I am deeply shocked by the events myself. My ex had a half brother whose dad had died in a fire. But I think it's annoying when all of a sudden a song is thought to be in poor taste by some people just because something tragic has happened which by sheer coincidence certain lyrics can be misconstrued as making light of. This song is almost 30 years old and deals with the plights of native Australians, for fucks sake.
>> No. 411354 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 8:21 pm
411354 spacer
>>411350
>>411351
No amount of handouts can bring their loved ones back from the dead, racistlads.
>> No. 411355 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 8:22 pm
411355 spacer
>>411352
Yes, people housed by the council tend to be poor. What is difficult here?
>> No. 411356 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 8:34 pm
411356 spacer
>>411354
A lynchmob isn't going to bring anyone back from the dead either, but that seems to be the way things are heading.
>> No. 411357 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 8:47 pm
411357 spacer
>>411356
Eh. There are times when a proper revolt is necessary. You sound like southern whites who used to scream at the blacks for their protests.
>> No. 411358 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:00 pm
411358 spacer

417A2ED900000578-4611482-image-a-106_1497641450860.jpg
411358411358411358
Have the socialists got a monopoly on placards or something?
>> No. 411359 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:15 pm
411359 spacer
>>411358
I should really get into the placards business.
>> No. 411360 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:15 pm
411360 spacer

319969.jpg
411360411360411360
>>411357

They sound nothing like that you hyperbolic cunt.
>> No. 411361 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:19 pm
411361 spacer
I wonder if this had happened pre-election if tin-foilers would be proclaiming this a Labour party false flag, like they did with the terror attacks to the Conservatives.
>> No. 411363 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:30 pm
411363 spacer
>>411352

That was privately rented. Most of the flats were council-owned and rented out at well below market rates. Grenfell Tower was in one of the poorest 10% of boroughs in the country. The vast majority of the residents in Grenfell were ordinary working people who were struggling to get by.

>>411358

They've got the logistics in place to have thousands of placards made at short notice. Most people wouldn't know where to start. It's a bit opportunistic by the SWP, but no other bugger is going to do it.

>>411356

No, but it might shock central government and the GLA into actually doing something about a very long-standing issue. The vast majority of Londoners are angry and frustrated about the housing situation. There are a thousands of people living in blocks just like Grenfell, from council tenants on the minimum wage to professionals who paid £250,000 for a one-bed flat. They all went to bed last night wondering if they're living in a deathtrap.

Grenfell residents had been complaining for years about the lack of fire safety in their building. Their concerns were systematically ignored by the local authority, the government and the media. The anger we're seeing isn't going to subside until real action is taken to prevent another tragedy.
>> No. 411364 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:44 pm
411364 spacer
>>411363

>No, but it might shock central government and the GLA into actually doing something about a very long-standing issue.

I don't think this will point towards the housing issues in any constructive way, it will just simply lead to knee jerk increased regulation over fire safety to please the mob, regardless of the relivance, as almost certainly the Tower wasn't up to code through no fault of the regulations themselves but as a result of negligence.
>> No. 411365 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:52 pm
411365 spacer
>>411340

You do realise he is paid for by putin right. He isn't supposed to be satirical to be made fun of more satirical like private eye is.
>> No. 411366 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 9:54 pm
411366 spacer
>>411360
Mate, they might be brown, but they are still poor like us. No need to be a racist, comrade.
>> No. 411368 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 10:11 pm
411368 spacer
>>411364
>it will just simply lead to knee jerk increased regulation over fire safety to please the mob
Yeah, I mean what kind of idiot even wants their home to be safe in the event of a fire next door?
>> No. 411369 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 10:20 pm
411369 spacer
>>411363
>The anger we're seeing isn't going to subside until real action is taken to prevent another tragedy.

The same anger that happened after the Lakanal fire in 2009?
>> No. 411370 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 10:25 pm
411370 spacer
>>411352
Summary & Exclusions:
- No DSS / Housing Benefit Applicants
- No Students
- No Pets, sorry
- No Smokers
- Not Suitable for Families / Children
- Bills not included
- No Parking Available
- No Garden Access

Why no students? Are they too loud or what?
>> No. 411371 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 11:13 pm
411371 spacer

DCdHCuCWsAAG9Kw.jpg
411371411371411371
>>411369

The tide has turned.
>> No. 411372 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 11:30 pm
411372 spacer
>>411368

The wheels of justice already exist, and I expect there to be corporate manslaughter trials. You sound like one of those tumblirites who doesn't seem to understand there are already laws against rape, rapists simply ignore them, and we can magicaly make rape not exist by making more absurdly knee jerk laws.
>> No. 411373 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 11:30 pm
411373 spacer
>>411371

Does he mean temporarily, or permanently? I wholeheartedly support the former.
>> No. 411374 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 11:32 pm
411374 spacer
>>411372
I refuse to take lessons from someone who can't spell or punctuate properly.
>> No. 411375 Anonymous
16th June 2017
Friday 11:36 pm
411375 spacer
>>411374

Whatever sooths your ego over being wrong mate.
>> No. 411376 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 12:12 am
411376 spacer
>>411375
You'd have to ask someone that was actually wrong about that.
>> No. 411377 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 1:58 am
411377 spacer
>>411370
Have you ever rented before? Most places I've seen advertised exclude students. Combination of factors - students are poorer, are less likely to stay in the same place long-term and are more likely to trash the place.
>> No. 411378 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 2:11 am
411378 spacer
Kek, brits. In vastly superior germany styrofoam cladding is completely illegal to fit on the facades of houses taller than 22m (the height of the ladders on the firetrucks).

Why is the rest of the world so shit?
>> No. 411379 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 2:59 am
411379 spacer
>>411378
We just believe that money > human beings (especially poor ones).
>> No. 411380 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 3:21 am
411380 spacer

blairfuck.jpg
411380411380411380
>>411378

Not sure about the rest of the world but in the UK it's all this cunt's fault. Fuck Thatcher, she was my childhood bogeyman but she was childsplay compaired to this fucking incubus. When this cunt finally dies a painful death, impaled upon the battlements of pomposity of his own personal pseudo-religious alamo I will gloriously belt one out right over a photo from the Times of his grieving wife and kids. What a cunt.
>> No. 411381 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 3:40 am
411381 spacer
>>411378

What does Styrofoam.have to.do with it
>> No. 411382 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 4:23 am
411382 spacer
>>411381
When you rub it, it makes me go mental like scratching a blackboard does to people. My teeth hurt and I just feel like either fucking off or attacking the source of the sound. Since muder is illegal, I just fuck off mostly.
>> No. 411383 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 4:26 am
411383 spacer

keptin-jr-rag-doll-fuschia.jpg
411383411383411383
>>411380
Can you show us on the doll where he touched you?
>> No. 411384 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 6:45 am
411384 spacer

Screenshot_20170617-064326.png
411384411384411384
This is the top of the home page of the Daily Mail website.

They never liked Cameron but they never stuck the knife in like this when he was PM.
>> No. 411385 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 7:53 am
411385 spacer

RlLp950aQtq0GnzynwUv_The Sun front page 17.06.17.jpg
411385411385411385
>>411384

The knives are out across the right-wing press. The right are remarkably good at putting aside their differences and unifying around a leader, but they have very little patience for a lame duck.
>> No. 411386 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 7:55 am
411386 spacer
>>411385
Was The Sun considered right wing when New Labour were in power? I can't actually remember.
>> No. 411387 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 8:48 am
411387 spacer
>>411386

To a substantial extent, yes. They backed Blair, but it was wholly opportunistic by both sides. Blair actively courted the Murdoch press in the run-up to the 1997 election, as part of his bid for dominance over the middle ground. On his part, Murdoch saw a pro-privatisation, pro-markets leader who was likely to win a landslide. The traditional left were lukewarm at best about Blair; the likes of Benn and Foot saw him as a Tory wrecker from the start.

Murdoch has always been more concerned with having influence over the government than with supporting any particular party. During the Blair years, the Tories were almost irrelevant as a political force.

At the Leveson inquiry, Alistair Campbell vigorously denied that there was any explicit deal between Murdoch and Blair, so there was almost certainly an explicit deal between Murdoch and Blair.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/murdochs-courtship-of-blair-finally-pays-off-1144087.html
>> No. 411388 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 9:41 am
411388 spacer

Libertarian Frog.jpg
411388411388411388
>>411357
>You sound like southern whites who used to scream at the blacks for their protests.

Now you listen here young sowsnek, I will not tolerate such besmirching of the Cornish community as part of your anti-Darkie Day agenda. We are a strong community that will not be broken by fake history! .o/

>>411371
You see this is why Corbyn rubs me in such a wrong way. Of course the public would support requisitioning if there was an overriding need but this is not one of those situations and he is pouring fuel on the fire to even suggest it. Given the public ignorance I would even suggest that our allegedly moral superhero is cynically exploiting the public mood.

This country has a intricate system of nets to catch people in housing need that works 365 days a year, not just when the papers are talking about it. His talk is either a frankly teen-lad attempt to egg people on to breaking into peoples property or an attempt to normalise requisitioning which is very much an emergency power for wartime. Neither option is particularly clever given it could spark riots or worse still form part of his manifesto.
>> No. 411389 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 9:59 am
411389 spacer

Corbyn.png
411389411389411389
Is this a distortion by the Daily Mail? I've read the quote and it looks to me like they are reporting exactly what was said just for the audience affected rather than the one he is trying to please.

What am I missing here? Is it just that it is critical of his position, that doesn't make sense.
>> No. 411390 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:04 am
411390 spacer
>>411388
Yes we need homes but in this case the idea is to not displace them from the area where they live while a permanent solution is found.
>> No. 411391 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:05 am
411391 spacer
>>411385

Theresa May is doing it to herself, lad. She is the one who can no longer mask her incompetence as political leader of the UK. And once protest has reached a critical mass, these right wing rags would be dumb not to jump on the bandwagon. They are deeply opportunist themselves, meaning they will not gang up in such a way on somebody who is well liked and respected.

People like Margaret Thatcher, for example, may have been vastly unpopular with many people as well, but the difference is that Thatcher had staying power. And she was just politically smarter than May. Thatcher wouldn't have gambled her career on a needless election which would then have blown up in her face. Her publicity stunts were more along the lines of invading a tiny archipelago in the southern hemisphere against an underequipped Argentinian army.

Theresa May is a political also-ran who in a fluke suddenly found herself in the office of Prime Minister. And who is now painfully realising that the gloves are off by default in a position like that. And she isn't cut out for the kind of backlash that a Prime Minister sometimes has to deal with.
>> No. 411392 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:07 am
411392 spacer
>>411389
>What am I missing here? Is it just that it is critical of his position, that doesn't make sense.

Consider that this comes from a place calling itself 'Evolve Politics'. It's not meant to hold under any scrutiny but cause knee-jerk idiots to hit share on their social media.
>> No. 411393 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:16 am
411393 spacer
>>411392

But I don't even understand why someones knee would jerk at that. What is it that they think is propaganda here?
>> No. 411394 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:20 am
411394 spacer
>>411390
>Yes we need homes but in this case the idea is to not displace them from the area where they live while a permanent solution is found.

In the unlikely scenario where they need to live locally but no suitable accommodation can be found then it will show in the compo. Again though I find it hard to believe that those in need won't be able to find accommodation or why they are so special that requisitioning okay now.
>> No. 411397 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:45 am
411397 spacer

pauljoseph.jpg
411397411397411397
There is a certain breed of person who will lament the foreign aid budget on the grounds money should be spent sorting out poor people back here in the UK, who in light of this tragedy accuse everybody else of Marxism or whatever for wanting to help the poor here.
>> No. 411398 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:53 am
411398 spacer
>>411391

>Theresa May is doing it to herself, lad. She is the one who can no longer mask her incompetence as political leader of the UK.

I don't really disagree. She managed to maintain the appearance of presidentiality of a while, but the veneer of competence started to wear thin in the last few weeks of the election campaign. I think it's becoming clear to the right that she isn't right for the job and she needs replacing pronto, before a bungled Brexit tears apart the Tory party.

May was never particularly popular, but she was seen as a safe pair of hands; her only real redeeming feature has completely disintegrated, and with it her electoral prospects.

>>411394

Many of the residents of Grenfell Tower were being "encouraged" to move out of London before the disaster. There is a justifiable level of mistrust over the intentions of the local authority and central government. If the displaced people end up scattered to the four winds, the government will be providing ammunition for the conspiracy theorists. I don't support requisitioning, but I think it would be reasonable to apply a punitive level of tax on vacant properties to fund social housing.
>> No. 411399 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:54 am
411399 spacer
>>411393
>But I don't even understand why someones knee would jerk at that. What is it that they think is propaganda here?

There is, then, much to be hopeful about. And among a vocal minority of online celebrants, post-election joy has been accompanied by entirely understandable triumphalism. Haters, doubters and sceptics have been rounded on. Journalists with any history of disbelief or hostility should apparently resign or be sacked. Labour MPs who once wanted Corbyn to quit should be reciting the socialist equivalent of Hail Marys, and burying any hopes of a return to the shadow cabinet. Those who fixated on Labour’s recent losses in local elections or the Copeland byelection are retrospectively deemed guilty of abject pessimism.

Of course, there are media people and politicians whose view of Corbyn and his supporters was hostile and mocking from the start. If they are now switching on their phone to find daily explosions of ridicule and bile, I am sure they can take it: this is the sport they chose. What’s much more questionable is the way the same vengeful attitude is extended to anyone who ever portrayed the last two years of Labour politics in terms of doubt, concern and malaise, and who are being similarly instructed to say sorry for their alleged heresy or be escorted from the building.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/17/corbyn-chiming-with-times-jubilant-insurgent-labour

Corbynites have been emboldened by the manner in which they lost the general election and now feel vindicated. They're now in overdrive.
>> No. 411400 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 11:17 am
411400 spacer
>>411398
>I think it would be reasonable to apply a punitive level of tax on vacant properties to fund social housing.

Even the Economist has been advocating for years a vacant plot tax, it is completely non-controversial and beside the point.
>> No. 411401 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 12:09 pm
411401 spacer
>>411394
They tore down my mum's council estate and wanted to send her off to Preston because "there weren't any housing" in the borough she lived in for nearly 50 years. Local councils, and the government for that matter, hate their poorer residents.
>> No. 411402 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 12:41 pm
411402 spacer
>>411399

The Momentumistas have started to recede into the background as Corbyn gains mainstream support. They're angry and vocal, especially on the internet, but they aren't all that relevant. Corbyn realised a bit too late that he needed to listen to his spin doctors and work on his image. He has distanced himself from McDonnell and sent Abbott off on "sick leave". He's in the process of reconciling with the New Labour backbenchers and putting together a decent shadow cabinet.

There has been a genuine transformation of the Labour party in the last few weeks. Corbyn has abandoned the mindset of being a radical voice in opposition and is now sincerely working towards being in government. Compare his recent interviews with those from a few months ago and you'll see that there has been a huge shift in tone and presentation. Success in the polls might have fired up the radical left, but it's also what will allow the Labour party to marginalise them.
>> No. 411403 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 12:47 pm
411403 spacer
>>411402

>Corbyn has abandoned the mindset of being a radical voice in opposition and is now sincerely working towards being in government.

He never wanted to do this, it's complete make believe.
>> No. 411404 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 2:02 pm
411404 spacer

takeovermeeting.gif
411404411404411404
Meanwhile, the former Mayor conducts an in-depth probing. This very matter being the premise of his career, we are sure to expect pozitive outcomes. For now he takes the back, but we expect him to see to any means and ends in time.

(gets cladding)
>> No. 411405 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 2:13 pm
411405 spacer
The LSE did a study that dispelled the idea that there are swathes of vacant rich houses.
>> No. 411406 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 2:36 pm
411406 spacer
>>411405
>The LSE
I don't trust these rich cunts.
>> No. 411408 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 3:01 pm
411408 spacer

deutsche-bank-asks-what-youd-think-of-the-heinz-kr.jpg
411408411408411408
>>411405

.. yeah, some statistical-deviation single digit amount of empty properties. Just the number picking to be expected from a City Boy bootcamp. Pick any wealthy borough at random lad, and Notting Hill in particular, have a long, aimless walk. I did yesterday. Even worse in Highgate, really obvious in the West of Zone 2. Plenty of villas boarded up for 'refurbishment' that grows over by now.
Empty high streets and the bare minimum of hi-vis chaps to deter my nightly drawing sessions. Paranoid, angry toffs behind V&A that moan for private police. Oil money developments past Greenwich and on the wrong river side never even had the wrapping removed. None of the Banlieues there even ask for a Heimlich maneuver, since zero infrastructure or transport exists, and there is shitty industry just outside. Nothing but a set-up to launder cash.
You know what else the LSE said? The people who buy these properties are from bronze-tier Asian countries, and have the same trouble as our first time buyers. WORKING CLASS MILLIONAIRES. Thus we can now disregard any of the biweekly stories about shell company set-ups for Slavcrooks and third sons of oil princes, holiday mansions, party villas.
It is of course also in that survey, on no unclear terms, that nothing is easier than to fake occupancy. As a Russian, this is a going thing - if you're the type that can live with being on camera, getting kicked out on a whim, and being responsible for more garish, breaky things than you could afford in your life.

TL/DR: study claims its premises were what the owners told them.
>> No. 411409 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 4:56 pm
411409 spacer
>>411406

According to research commissioned by the Department for Communities and Local Government, there are 589,000 empty homes, of which 200,000 have been empty for more than six months. There are approximately 73,000 homeless families who are in temporary accommodation and waiting for permanent housing.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN03012
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statutory-homelessness-and-homelessness-prevention-and-relief-england-october-to-december-2016
>> No. 411410 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 5:44 pm
411410 spacer
>>411408
>>411409
I fucking knew not to trust some rich boy institution.

In any case, you can't just go around and take properties by force. That will undo our society, but it would be great to tax the living shite out of them. I would tax them so badly that it would become attractive for them to pay people to live in their empty properties. I would go as far as to tax the shite out of people buying a second home too (something like 33%).
>> No. 411411 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 6:36 pm
411411 spacer
>>411410
It used to be that you didn't pay council tax on properties that were left empty, but now councils have discretion on what discount to allow if any at all. Unsurprisingly, most councils have opted to charge full rate, not so much as a matter of public policy but rather because it makes them more money.
>> No. 411412 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 6:40 pm
411412 spacer
>>411410
>(something like 33%)

Is that you, Diane?
>> No. 411414 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 8:36 pm
411414 spacer
Oh no, Maomentum, looks like your attempt at a Marxist revolution on the back of a horrendous disaster is going down well with the residents.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-stadlen/grenfell-tower-resident-protesters-made-worse/
>> No. 411415 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 10:59 pm
411415 spacer
>>411412
Why? How is the number 33 connect to Diane?
>> No. 411417 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 11:11 pm
411417 spacer

nintchdbpict000332074046-e1497645433899.jpg
411417411417411417
These middle class revolts have become more comical over the past few years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN9V-_A1yjw
>> No. 411418 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 11:13 pm
411418 spacer
>>411415
He's talking nonsense. As everyone knows, Diane's position is a tax on empty policemen, planned to raise the higher of £100 trillion or half a Freddo.
>> No. 411419 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 11:20 pm
411419 spacer

blobs.jpg
411419411419411419
>>411415

33 is the new twelvty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJgy6j9gas
>> No. 411420 Anonymous
17th June 2017
Saturday 11:25 pm
411420 spacer
>>411417
MES supports Corbyn, funny enough. I somewhat agree, he is a politician who does what he says on the box and isn't afraid to be bold, even if he has the name Jeremy and has a fucking beard. A lass I know was at that demo, she is an extremely uptight middle class lady.
>> No. 411422 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 12:11 am
411422 spacer
>>411417
It looks to be midday in that picture but I see people marching with jumpers, hoodies and pullovers. Fucking lizardmen everywhere.
>> No. 411423 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 12:42 am
411423 spacer

6smAE39RfM-14.png
411423411423411423
SEND IN TEN BENSON TO A STUDENT UNION DSCO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shu3ENVJwjY
>> No. 411462 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 3:32 pm
411462 spacer
>Jeremy Corbyn has reiterated his suggestion that people left homeless by the Grenfell Tower fire could be housed in empty homes, saying the government has the means to seize property.

>"Occupy it, compulsory purchase it, requisition it," the Labour leader told ITV's Peston on Sunday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40319515

Emboldened Trots, exploiting a tragedy for their own political agenda, that's all we need.
>> No. 411463 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 3:53 pm
411463 spacer
>>411462
All those empty homes seem very very wrong to me and increasingly do to ordinary people. It is borne from compassion and kindness, not any kind of hatred of the rich and Corbyn has just had the balls to say what a lot of people are thinking. Things are changing quickly in this country and unfortunately it took a tragedy for this to happen.
>> No. 411464 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 3:54 pm
411464 spacer
>>411462
Given that their political agenda is 'Help the people affected by this tragedy' I think that's more than acceptable. As opposed to the Tories totally un-political, non-exploiting of the recent daft militant wog attacks by using them as leverage to crack down on privacy because that's definitely, absolutely related and going to help, just ask the experts.
>> No. 411465 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 3:59 pm
411465 spacer
>>411462

As mentioned upthread, this isn't some fringe agenda - it's a popular policy.

>411371
>> No. 411467 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 4:18 pm
411467 spacer
>>411463
I think it's the zealousness with which he's rushed into that solution which has offered me. He hasn't seemed this eager to make a quick decision since the EU Referendum and wanting Article 50 triggered straight away.

It's a knee-jerk reaction. Wait until all other options have been exhausted first before demanding that vacant properties are requisitioned without the consent of the owner. Landlords have willingly come forward to offer their properties to the residents.
>> No. 411468 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 4:28 pm
411468 spacer
>>411463

You know what would be a better solution? build homes at a rate that the price doesn't go up and actually goes down. So houses aren't 10 times what they were in 1990 in real terms. Instead of having a sneer at the people who can afford them. If you remove the mechanism for something to be an investment tool it won't be.
>> No. 411469 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 4:49 pm
411469 spacer
>>411468
Hang on what does this long-term housebuilding programme have to do with the immediate need to rehome people whose flats are now cinder?

You just referenced the real-terms value of houses 30 years ago. Grenfell burnt last week.
>> No. 411471 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 4:50 pm
411471 spacer
>>411468
>You know what would be a better solution? build homes at a rate that the price doesn't go up and actually goes down.
I'm sure that'll come as some comfort for the 500 or so people that were made homeless overnight last week. I'm sure they can wait out a few years in a shelter or sofa surfing until the new homes they can afford to replace the ones they lost through no fault of their own have been built.
>> No. 411472 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 4:59 pm
411472 spacer
>>411467
>Wait until all other options have been exhausted first before demanding that vacant properties are requisitioned without the consent of the owner.
You keep talking like this is some kind of long-term issue. Most councils get a handful or two of new applications for social housing in a week. RBKC just had literally hundreds of people made homeless in one night. There's literally no harm in using a property that's empty and has little prospect of being filled for a couple of months until they get sorted out properly. The one thing we don't want to do is take these people, many of whom are native to the area, and socially cleanse relocate them halfway across the country.
>> No. 411479 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 6:06 pm
411479 spacer
>>411343
>The Grenfell fire is a grotesque, totemic example of everything Corbyn argues is wrong with Britain.
Actually this is a point that fascinates me a little bit: Is Corbyn rising in the polls because people are slowly realizing this and the event crystallises it, or are we viewing the event through the lens of Corbyn rising in the polls and thus seeing the economic and social forces behind the event as a result?

It seems almost a meaningless question but I have to wonder, for example, what if the building had burned down in the same circumstances a few years ago?
>> No. 411482 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 6:49 pm
411482 spacer
>>411472
>There's literally no harm in using a property that's empty and has little prospect of being filled for a couple of months until they get sorted out properly.

It isn't something you should clamour for immediately. If you are going down this route then there's no harm in asking the owners in the first instance.

If his immediate thoughts are state requisitions then that's worrying.
>> No. 411483 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:02 pm
411483 spacer
>>411482
>It isn't something you should clamour for immediately.
On the contrary, when you have more households made homeless in one go than they normally have to deal with in a month on top of their usual flow of applicants, time is a luxury you don't have. These people need to be rehomed as a matter of urgency. Unlike a substantial chunk of prospective social tenants, the folk in this case are not in any way, shape or form the architects of their own misery. They suffered an unfortunate accident, possibly at the negligence of the very authority that put them there.
>> No. 411484 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:21 pm
411484 spacer
>>411483
Lad. It's 400 people, many of whom can be rehomed in the same residence, in London. London.

Let's not pretend this is a State of Emergency crisis.
>> No. 411485 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:21 pm
411485 spacer
>>411483
Fuck off Chavez, the tragedy of a few hundred people living in temporary accommodation is nothing compared to setting a precedent allowing the state to requisition property for any little populist reason. This power is reserved for events of existential importance because you are undoing the foundations of our liberal society, something that I imagine dear leader is licking his lips over.
>> No. 411488 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:26 pm
411488 spacer
>>411471

Local councils actually have a surplus of housing stock for when there is problems with properties or when they need to rehouse people during refurbishment. There are enough homes to pragmatically house those people in the surrounding councils, without turning into a mad Trotskyite for cheep political point scoring.
>> No. 411489 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:27 pm
411489 spacer
>>411485
Why do you hate poor people?
>> No. 411490 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:36 pm
411490 spacer

stream_img.jpg
411490411490411490
>>411484
>many of whom can be rehomed in the same residence
Really? I mean, sure, the ventilation has improved a bit but ... really?

Realistically, the tower is going to have to go. The top half is pretty much beyond repair, and it's quite difficult to demolish only some floors in a high-rise. I know the area is rather deprived, but I'd be surprised if the replacement was a high-rise affordable/social development.
>> No. 411493 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:40 pm
411493 spacer
>>411490
I probably didn't word it well. I meant, it's 400 people but many of those will be families so only 100 or so residences are actually needed.
>> No. 411494 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:41 pm
411494 spacer

38ca0ed76668eafe4ab8c9a903196303.jpg
411494411494411494
>>411491
>Far more people unemployed than there are job vacancies, with no accounting for geographic location or any other confounding factors.
>But there's plenty of opportunity, no excuses!!!

Posting my favourite poster again. (Unemployment now stands around 1.5 million.)
>> No. 411495 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:41 pm
411495 spacer
>>411489
Why are you a thief?
>> No. 411496 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:43 pm
411496 spacer
>>411489
In the year 2017 in Britain there is really no excuse for being poor, apart from the minority who have suffered genuine hardship.

There may not be the social mobility to be the Chief Executive of a FTSE 100 firm, but there's more than enough educational and vocational opportunities to improve your lot if you want to. If you're poor you're almost certainly stupid and anti-intellectual or you're simply idle and lack any drive whatsoever.
>> No. 411497 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:44 pm
411497 spacer

5326998990_da73a8e8b8_o.jpg
411497411497411497
>>411495
It's not stealing if it's legally sanctioned, which state requisition would be.
>> No. 411498 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:46 pm
411498 spacer
>>411494
If you knew there weren't enough jobs for everyone and those at the bottom would end up on the scrap heap then, if you had half a brain, you'd do everything in your power to ensure that didn't happen to you. There are no excuses.
>> No. 411499 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:51 pm
411499 spacer
>>411498
Statistically, someone is always going to end up on the scrapheap. The "ideal" situation in this scenario is just everyone climbing over themselves to desperately lick shit off the shoes of the well off.

Ah yes, you've got a university degree, you've done unpaid work experience, you've taught yourself cantonese... but we've found someone better. You lazy little fucking shit. Try harder.
>> No. 411500 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:53 pm
411500 spacer
>>411498
We don't live in a meritocracy, mate, sorry to break it to you.
>> No. 411501 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 7:56 pm
411501 spacer
>>411499
>Statistically, someone is always going to end up on the scrapheap.

Exactly. If you knew that if you didn't try hard at school or put the effort in in some other way or you'd end up on the scrap heap then you'd have to be DOUBLE STUPID.

It's not as if the bar is set unattainably high.
>> No. 411502 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:01 pm
411502 spacer
>>411500
Ah, yes. The local council estate scallies couldn't find a single job doing basic administrative work because of the nationwide old boys network for public school poshos making everything everywhere a closed shop. Come off it, lad.
>> No. 411503 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:04 pm
411503 spacer
>>411501
Personally if I didn't luck out in life I'd probably just kill myself rather than playing a game that's been rigged for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdZp5iw-UEo

I mean if I really luck out I could be reborn as a feudal peasant, where social relations are unfair but honest.
>> No. 411505 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:20 pm
411505 spacer
>>411498
Exactly. Which is why repeated studies have found that things such as stack ranking in the workplace doesn't work, because it doesn't actually reward hard work.

The people who end up at the bottom aren't there for lack of effort. A good many of them are there because the system has actively cheated them out of advancement. Saying people who end up at the bottom should have worked harder is like saying Whitney Houston shouldn't have taken cocaine in the first place.
>> No. 411508 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:35 pm
411508 spacer
>>411505
Lad, trying hard to get ahead isn't about how much effort you put into your job. If you're working hard and being overlooked then anyone with half a brain would look to apply for more senior jobs elsewhere. If you want to stay at the same company then you need to put some of that effort into making the right impression with the right people.

You can mope about the system being stacked against you or you can try to do the best you can with the hand you're dealt. Honestly, there is no excuse for being a pauper.
>> No. 411509 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:35 pm
411509 spacer
>>411502
I think you're interpreting the term meritocracy a bit too narrowly.

You seem to have an idea that if 1 million people are unemployed, they have all put in less work than every single person who doesn't find themselves in that situation. If some economic shock causes a recession and unemployment increases by 500,000, the people who lose their jobs and are unable to find other work were the 500,000 people who were putting in the least effort. This is a self-evidently absurd proposition.
>> No. 411510 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:39 pm
411510 spacer
>>411508
>If you're working hard and being overlooked then anyone with half a brain would look to apply for more senior jobs elsewhere
Then we return to the same problem: there are only so many more senior jobs.
>> No. 411511 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:43 pm
411511 spacer
>>411497
>which state requisition would be.

No it wouldn't. Legal experts have come out over the past few days to very bluntly state that Corbyn's knee-jerk reaction would be completely illegal and there is not a damn sight of that changing anytime soon.

If however you and your sticky-fingered pals push through legislation it would almost certainly be gummed up by Protocol 1 Art.1 of the ECHR and the side of the legal profession that doesn't have shit for brains.

>>411502
>>411505
Why can't you both be wrong?

The question of deserving and undeserving poor has been rumbling since 1351 and is much more complicated than "just try harder lol" -as particularly the New Poor Law demonstrates. At the same time the opposite extreme pretends that free will doesn't exist and goes down that old route you see in criminal law where a murderer blames his background when 99% of people with the same upbringing are reasonably law abiding people.
>> No. 411513 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:46 pm
411513 spacer
>>411508
When you take a position such as this, it's very tempting to say the only mistake the underclass in this country has made is not going all 1917.
And naturally when our benevolent vanguard party jail you for being a counterrevolutionary kulak, you'll have nobody but yourself to blame for arousing suspicions.
>> No. 411514 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:56 pm
411514 spacer
>>411509
I'm just saying they're a bit thick, that's all.

The system may not be fair but poor people are, on average, more likely to be stupid than the rest of the population at large. The two premises are not mutually exclusive.

>>411510
Then perhaps a change of career is needed. Either way, if you've progressed to the point that the number of senior roles is limited and a rarity then it's safe to say you're unlikely to be one of the paupers we're talking about.
>> No. 411515 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:57 pm
411515 spacer
>>411508
>>411514
>If you're working hard and being overlooked then anyone with half a brain would look to apply for more senior jobs elsewhere
>Then perhaps a change of career is needed.
If you're posting dreck like this then you clearly aren't capable of higher reasoning, which means you are stupid and should have tried harder at school.
>> No. 411516 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 8:59 pm
411516 spacer
>>411511
>No it wouldn't.
Yes it would, because it wouldn't be occurring otherwise. :^)
>> No. 411517 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:01 pm
411517 spacer
>>411511
That's like saying that murder can't happen because it's illegal. Murder and possession of a firearm are both crimes, but that's not going to stop someone who's stood over you pointing a gun at your head.

Plus all that ECHR stuff doesn't matter anyway, because we're leaving the EU and repealing the Human Rights Act and all the other evil checks and balances that Brussels and Strasbourg have imposed on us, innit.
>> No. 411518 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:01 pm
411518 spacer
>>411515
At least I'm not poor, though.
>> No. 411519 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:02 pm
411519 spacer
>>411514
No, you're saying there's "no excuse" for being poor. Personally, I don't think anyone should live in poverty, even if they happen to have been born with a lower than average IQ or denied a decent education.
>> No. 411520 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:06 pm
411520 spacer
>>411518
Hence your idea that meritocracy exists is bollocks.
>> No. 411521 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:08 pm
411521 spacer
>>411517
The right to property in the ECHR has an exception for the public interest anyway.
>> No. 411522 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:31 pm
411522 spacer
>>411519
Oh, I'm not saying people deserve to be poor. That'd be wrong. I'm simply pointing out they're thick for not taking advantage of the myriad of opportunities to climb out of poverty. They shouldn't be painted as wretched unfortunates absolved of all personal responsibility. "They can't help being poor, it's not their fault."

>>411520
No, lad. I didn't say trying hard at school is the only way to get ahead. One of the most successful people I know isn't overly bright but he's a sparkie and very good at it too.

Also, if I'm not overly bright and not poor then that shows how low the bar is set and how thick those at the bottom really must be.
>> No. 411523 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:35 pm
411523 spacer
>>411516
I appreciate it is hot but I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. Requisitioning property is something that has principally happened during the World Wars with statutory backing and even then was a legal clusterfuck to say to least.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303142

>>411517
Er no we tend to have the rule of law in this country. Although Parliamentary Sovereignty comes into it the government would have no luck trying to do things without appropriate legislation as has been discovered many times.

>Plus all that ECHR stuff doesn't matter anyway, because we're leaving the EU and repealing the Human Rights Act and all the other evil checks and balances that Brussels and Strasbourg have imposed on us, innit.

Even if we strike out the HRA we'd still be liable under our commitment to the ECHR but it would just take longer and be more costly for everyone. The current Tory plans to leave the ECHR (which will be done after the next election at the earliest according to even Mother Theresa) also call for it to be done so after a new 'Bill of Rights' is drafted that I don't see waiving the right to property.

>>411521
The right to life also has derogations but that doesn't mean the government can just start killing people willy-nilly. What you would need to prove is that the public interest is sufficient to overrule a fundamental freedom which I don't see happening given even Pye v UK on adverse possession turned on negligence regarding limitation periods.
>> No. 411525 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:47 pm
411525 spacer
>>411522
>Oh, I'm not saying people deserve to be poor.
No, lad. You can say that they're poor and it's their fault but that doesn't mean they deserve it, in the same way you can say you smoked weed but didn't inhale.

>Also, if I'm not overly bright and not poor then that shows how low the bar is set
No, it doesn't, but that you wrote that sentence unironically does show that you are indeed "not overly bright".
>> No. 411526 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:49 pm
411526 spacer
>>411522
>"They can't help being poor, it's not their fault."
If they're thick, they probably can't help that either. IQ has a significant genetic component.

90% of the time people try to play up personal responsibility, it's to downplay societal responsibility. You're personally responsible for refusing a job in a labour shortage situation, you're not personally responsible for not being fucking superman when there's a huge labour surplus.
>> No. 411527 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 9:56 pm
411527 spacer
>>411523
On the other hand: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20053244
>> No. 411528 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 10:03 pm
411528 spacer
>>411523
>Er no we tend to have the rule of law in this country.
No, we really don't. Any legislation that Parliament sees fit to pass authorising requisitioning can come into force immediately and could be enforced immediately, regardless of whether it conflicts with ECHR, as the passage of DRIPA and IPA will demonstrate. In the case of DRIPA, there was an explicit court judgment that the things it was trying to do were incompatible with ECHR.

>What you would need to prove is that the public interest is sufficient to overrule a fundamental freedom
The public interest is what the government of the day says it is.
>> No. 411529 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 10:40 pm
411529 spacer
>>411511
>Protocol 1 Art.1 of the ECHR
Well we won't be bullied by these fake courts after Theresa gives them the boot anyway.
>> No. 411530 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 10:45 pm
411530 spacer
>>411523
>I appreciate it is hot but I have no idea what you're trying to get at here.
"If there was any real risk of the government being penalized for taking people's houses, they wouldn't do it."
Mostly just a smart-arse comment. (In hindsight I realize it can also be read as "They're already doing it!")
>> No. 411532 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 11:06 pm
411532 spacer
>>411527
The distinction on prisoner voting rights is that Strasbourg rightly refuses to enforce anything beyond saying a blanket ban is a breach. Added to this consultations remain ongoing on how to resolve the stalemate even as the government has now traditionally put out contradictory positions.

https://fullfact.org/law/votes-prisoners-politics-versus-human-rights-law/

>>411528
Let's take a look at what I actually wrote shall we:

>If however you and your sticky-fingered pals push through legislation it would almost certainly be gummed up by Protocol 1 Art.1 of the ECHR and the side of the legal profession that doesn't have shit for brains.

What we would need (as you admit) is a piece of legislation that explicitly lays out a right to requisition someones property in these circumstances at a minimum i.e. the rule of law. We'd spend a few months back and forth with the Lords doing this too and maybe have constitutional questions raised. Then time will be spent with the case running up the national court system (not so immediate after all - even if it is quickly dismissed).

Once that is done and the government starts snatches houses we go up the fast track towards Strasbourg and end up paying out our arses in compensation because property is a quantifiable product. God help us if any of the other EU members states citizens got caught up in this too because then we'd have an already angry ECJ to contend with on top of the madness.

I appreciate we are all eager to have a tedious argument over where the judiciary sits but there is no need for it. Parliamentary Sovereignty is referred to as a legal myth because there is no way it is a reality and Corbyn has so fair failed to outline how he intends to do this with even some words to support squatting. Because he is a populist like that.

>The public interest is what the government of the day says it is.

Evidently not.
>> No. 411533 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 11:27 pm
411533 spacer
>>411532
>What we would need (as you admit) is a piece of legislation that explicitly lays out a right to requisition someones property in these circumstances at a minimum
Erm, yes. What was your point again?

>Then time will be spent with the case running up the national court system
What case would that be? Any legislation that gets on the books could be enforced immediately. The courts in this country have no power to suspend legislation, and if they do declare a bit of legislation to be unlawful Parliament can just ignore them (as they did with DRIPA). By the time the courts even agree to hear the case, the property has already been requisitioned and people have been housed in it. To use the original analogy, the gunman has already pulled the trigger and has Crown immunity.

>Once that is done and the government starts snatches houses
No. As pointed out, the government will already have started snatching houses because nobody can stop them from doing so - any legal action after the legislation is passed (and it could surely be pushed through as secondary legislation not requiring a vote) would be after the fact. There is already form for this in s.5 Public Order Act and s.44 militant daft woggery Act, both of which continued to be enforced (in the case of s.44, until its repeal) in ways the courts had repeatedly declared unlawful. Not that this is a problem, because the first required hurdle would be that the owners have been deprived of the enjoyment of their property, and this test fails because any property involved would be unoccupied and therefore not neither being used nor bearing rent.

>we go up the fast track towards Strasbourg
The only "fast track towards Strasbourg" is the one made of concrete and steel. Those cases would have to join the queue of tens and hundreds of thousands of claims at the back like everyone else.

>Evidently not.
No, lad. Not "evidently" not, no.
>> No. 411534 Anonymous
18th June 2017
Sunday 11:48 pm
411534 spacer
>come to .gs expecting Grenfell thread full of links to articles, interviews, death estimates etc

>find a cunt-off over legalities in progress

Never change, .gs
>> No. 411535 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 12:03 am
411535 spacer
>>411534
I'm still fascinated by that resident's blog thing. https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

Despite it getting a reasonable amount of attention I'm surprised it hasn't been seized on more strongly. Maybe nobody wants to get into a cunt-off over libel law no matter how plausible and damning the claims sound. I mean, you can't just go around comparing local authorities and weird little not-quite-public-not-quite-private things like the KCTMO to the Mafia. That's unambiguous libel. To the mafia.
>> No. 411536 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 12:19 am
411536 spacer
>>411534
58 confirmed and they're still looking. There, are you happy now? Some people ...
>> No. 411539 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 1:19 am
411539 spacer
>>411536
>they're still looking

Fuck me...and I thought I had skeletons in the closet.
>> No. 411540 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 1:31 am
411540 spacer

insidegrenfelltower.jpg
411540411540411540
>>411539
Bear in mind that they've got around 12-16 floors of this to contend with. They've managed to at least get to the top floor, but they haven't done the really thorough part yet.
>> No. 411546 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 9:37 am
411546 spacer
>>411540
What condition would a lot of the bodies be in at the temperatures the fire would've burnt at? I get the strong impression that a lot of the bodies will have been more or less vaporised and a final death toll would only be an estimate. Given that some of the tenants were immigrants of whatever status, some may have vanished into the ether in other ways.
The tenancy list/housing manifest compared against survivors will probably be the best bet.
>> No. 411547 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 9:46 am
411547 spacer
>>411546
Overcooked tandoori.
>> No. 411548 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 10:00 am
411548 spacer
>>411546
I'd also bet that a fair few of these properties have been sublet out on the down low.
>> No. 411552 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 11:15 am
411552 spacer
>>411548

Nailed on.
>> No. 411553 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 11:15 am
411553 spacer
>>411548

Nailed on.
>> No. 411554 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 12:20 pm
411554 spacer
>>411546

>Given that some of the tenants were immigrants of whatever status, some may have vanished into the ether in other ways.

Maybe some inhabitants took the opportunity to "disappear" following the fire. In a fire like this, some bodies will never be found or identified. So it's an ideal opportunity to go missing if you've got debt or other problems.

I think I read about a few people who did this after the 9/11 attacks. They were supposed to be inside the Twin Towers that day, but by way of sheer luck they weren't, and knowing that many bodies would never be found or identified, they "went missing" and got a new identity or whatever. Some even tried to cash in their life insurance through their spouses who were in on it.

The Presumption of Death only legally applies in the UK after somebody has been unaccounted for for seven years, so that's still quite a long time.
>> No. 411555 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 12:20 pm
411555 spacer
>>411496

>In the year 2017 in Britain there is really no excuse for being poor,

I hear this bullshit trotted out by rich cunts, those who claim they "made something of themselves" all the fucking time.
If these people had one ounce of empathy and had truly made their way "up from the bottom" they wouldn't talk like this as they know that personal circumstances beyond a persons control can often cake a person's life in shit through no fault of their own.
>> No. 411556 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 12:28 pm
411556 spacer
>>411555
When you've finished rehashing this debate do you want to bring up the legalities of the government seizing property again? I'm sure we all want to go over these two topics again.
>> No. 411559 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 12:40 pm
411559 spacer
>>411555

Why don't we just bring back Victorian poorhouses.

Being poor back then was considered a character flaw, and as such, poverty put you on the same level of disregard by the upper classes as criminals or the mentally insane. Because for one reason or another, all of which founded in you as a flawed person, you had failed to make a proper human being out of yourself.
>> No. 411560 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 12:58 pm
411560 spacer
>>411559

Is that a hook or a ship's anchor you're wiggling about?
>> No. 411561 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 1:00 pm
411561 spacer
Y'know for all I enjoy people finally talking about increasing public spending, I kind of wish more attention was thrown on the KCTMO. I get that general vibe of "weird sort of private organisation operating public services that shouldn't actually exist" from it. Until we abolish that sort of private involvement, I'm sceptical that there will be results to phone home about from increasing investment in public services.
>> No. 411562 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 1:08 pm
411562 spacer
>>411561

This piece offers another way of looking at it:

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/392856-london-fire-taxpayers-militant daft woggery/

(yes, it's RT, and all that, but it does have a point.)
>> No. 411566 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 3:41 pm
411566 spacer
https://youtu.be/GoKdsMB1064YDg

Video of firemen on the way to the incident, asking "How the fuck is that even possible?". Just sums up this whole catastrophe.
>> No. 411569 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 4:51 pm
411569 spacer

tin-baseball.jpg
411569411569411569
>>411566
Video unavailable.
>> No. 411570 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 5:22 pm
411570 spacer
Someone in Cardiff appears to have started a tribute fire on some grass. Coverage so far seems to be about six posts on the twitters.
>> No. 411572 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 7:37 pm
411572 spacer
>>411569
https://streamable.com/ods06
>> No. 411573 Anonymous
19th June 2017
Monday 7:41 pm
411573 spacer
>>411572
Cheers.
>> No. 411705 Anonymous
23rd June 2017
Friday 9:39 pm
411705 spacer
>>411294
800 households evacuated and moved into temporary accommodation in Camden.
>> No. 411707 Anonymous
23rd June 2017
Friday 9:53 pm
411707 spacer
>>411705
How else can they install thermite and explosive charges?
>> No. 411709 Anonymous
23rd June 2017
Friday 10:05 pm
411709 spacer
>>411707
But thermite can't melt paparazzi on mopeds.
>> No. 411714 Anonymous
23rd June 2017
Friday 11:34 pm
411714 spacer
Does seem like an over reaction to evacuate all these people late on a Friday evening. Probably less disruptive ways of addressing the issues in the buildings that have bad cladding.
>> No. 411719 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 7:49 am
411719 spacer
>>411705

Oh look at that, so we don't need stupid cheep point scoring tall poppy syndrome rhetoric about seizing the houses. Turns out temporary housing already exists.
>> No. 411723 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 11:45 am
411723 spacer
>>411719
>Turns out temporary housing already exists.
Do you have a source for that, or are you just being a cunt?
>> No. 411724 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 11:48 am
411724 spacer
>>411714

The government have gone into full-on panic mode; the reaction to Grenfell could have easily turned into major unrest. It was a symbol for everything wrong with society, but rather than fixing the underlying issues they're just defusing the potency of the symbol. They're moving the Grenfell residents into a luxury block to mollify them, they're responding in the most zealous way possible to any other dodgy high-rise. They won't do anything about the mold-ridden terraces in Wembley and Bradford, the benefits cap, the huge increase in rough sleeping, the thousands of homeless families stuck in substandard temporary accommodation, but they're papering over the most visible cracks.
>> No. 411726 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 2:30 pm
411726 spacer
>>411724
The febrile atmosphere isn't helping - politicians at all levels now have to be seen to Do Something Now, rather than spending time looking at the underlying root causes and addressing those.
>> No. 411727 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 2:46 pm
411727 spacer
>>411723
Not him but I can clearly see he is literally quoting the fact that people have been moved into temporary accommodation. Can't you read?

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-23/camden-tower-block-evacuated-in-wake-of-fatal-grenfell-tower-fire/
>> No. 411728 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 3:50 pm
411728 spacer

glastoTents_2579820b.jpg
411728411728411728
>>411727
No, he said temporary housing. That's not the same thing at all.
>> No. 411729 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 3:55 pm
411729 spacer
>>411728
They aren't in refugee tents... If that's what you are asking, stupidlad.
>> No. 411730 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 3:56 pm
411730 spacer
>>411724
That's silly. It just means that civil unrest will follow the next accident, or the one after. They can't just keep taping up this shitty society we have built up.
>> No. 411736 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 5:31 pm
411736 spacer
>>411729
As far as I heard, the "temporary accommodation" is the local leisure centre and some hotel rooms. The otherlad suggested that there was "temporary housing" available for them.
>> No. 411738 Anonymous
24th June 2017
Saturday 8:40 pm
411738 spacer
>>411730

There's nothing stopping them from continuing to kick the can down the road. The foundation of society might be rotten to the core, but they don't care as long as it doesn't collapse under their watch. Theresa May is highly unlikely to last beyond the next election and will be lucky to make it that far.

Look at the mess of Brexit. Cameron chucked a referendum into the Tory manifesto to appease Drunken Racists voters. He treated the referendum as a bargaining chip, expecting to 'sacrifice' it in the coalition talks that never happened. For the sake of one election, he put the entire country into jeopardy.

Now May and Davis are making decisions that are clearly about appeasing the tabloids rather than ensuring the long-term success and stability of Britain. She might talk tough at home, but just look at her behaviour during the recent talks in Brussels - she was practically apologetic about the whole thing. There's not an ounce of principle, conviction or public service, just a desperate desire to hold on to power at any cost.
>> No. 411744 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 12:41 pm
411744 spacer
>>411738

>Look at the mess of Brexit. Cameron chucked a referendum into the Tory manifesto to appease Drunken Racists voters. He treated the referendum as a bargaining chip, expecting to 'sacrifice' it in the coalition talks that never happened. For the sake of one election, he put the entire country into jeopardy.


And Theresa May similarly took a gamble with the election because she thought that ideally, it would strengthen her position as a Prime Minister who didn't just come to office as a replacement for Cameron, but had the actual backing of the people, as expressed in new elections.

Both gambled their political careers away, albeit Theresa May not with the immediate consequence of having to step down as Prime Minister. And that just aggravates me. Your job as Prime Minister should be to run the country, not to play tactical games to increase your own power. You would hope that Cameron and May will from now on serve as cautionary tales as to how badly this kind of stuff can blow up in your face. But I have a feeling that they won't be.
>> No. 411745 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 2:04 pm
411745 spacer
>>411744
>But I have a feeling that they won't be.

Oh I don't know - in thirty years time there will be many history books about this period.
>> No. 411746 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 6:38 pm
411746 spacer
Around 60 buildings have had their cladding tested for standards compliance. Every single sample so far has failed. Let that sink in.
>> No. 411747 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 6:46 pm
411747 spacer
>>411746
It really doesn't matter. Nothing much will change however many people shout about it.
>> No. 411748 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 6:51 pm
411748 spacer
>>411746
>Let that sink in.

Stop being such a fucking drama queen.
>> No. 411749 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 6:52 pm
411749 spacer
>>411746
You sure on that? On the BBC last night it said they'd tested 34 but only half of these had failed.

Anyway, what a pair of cunts Corbyn and McDonnell are. Declining invitations to Armed Forces day in order to go poncing off with a load of poshos at Glastonbury, with McDonnell claiming today the victims of Grenfell were murdered.
>> No. 411750 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 6:54 pm
411750 spacer
>>411748
Watch you don't cut yourself there, lad.
>> No. 411752 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 6:59 pm
411752 spacer
>>411749
>On the BBC last night it said they'd tested 34 but only half of these had failed.
If they did, then they clearly hadn't read the statement they'd been given:

>The fact that all samples so far have failed the tests underlines the value of the testing programme we have set up with the Building Research Establishment to get samples checked properly in the laboratories.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-secretary-of-state-regarding-the-cladding-testing-failure-rate
>> No. 411753 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:02 pm
411753 spacer
>>411749
>McDonnell claiming today the victims of Grenfell were murdered.
They weren't? Was it just a series of unfortunate events that happen to usually befall poor people?
>> No. 411754 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:08 pm
411754 spacer
>>411753
Was it an arson attack?

Under no circumstances was this murder. McDonnell deliberately uses inflammatory language to try and stir up civil unrest.
>> No. 411755 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:21 pm
411755 spacer
>>411754
Considering how angry you are about how the commie McDonnell never gave ARE boys a blowjob, I'm certain this conversation won't reach anywhere. So go back to your DM comments section, lad.
>> No. 411756 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:35 pm
411756 spacer
>>411755
If people suspect you're a daft militant wog sympathiser who hates our country, it probably isn't a good idea to snub invitations to Armed Forces day events in order to preach to the choir with a load of poshos at Glastonbury.

Regardless of that, Grenfell was not murder. To call it murder is foolhardy.
>> No. 411757 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:36 pm
411757 spacer
>>411756
If you say so, fascistlad. Would it be murder of they were white?
>> No. 411758 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:38 pm
411758 spacer
>>411756
Why would he go to armed forces day events when everybody knows he's no fan of theirs (and vice versa, if the general threatening a coup against a hypothetical Corbyn premiership is anything to go by)? A photo op with some squaddies isn't going to change anyone's mind.
>> No. 411759 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:40 pm
411759 spacer
>>411757
Race has nothing to do with it. It may be corporate manslaughter, that's something for the investigators to decide. What it certainly isn't is murder.

>>411758
Because sometimes you've got to be the bigger person and offer an olive branch instead of being a cunt.
>> No. 411760 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:46 pm
411760 spacer
>>411759
Who did you vote for in the elections this year?
>> No. 411761 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 7:56 pm
411761 spacer
>>411760
Labour. Hobson's choice.
>> No. 411763 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 8:42 pm
411763 spacer
>>411759
It isn't murder the same way some scally nicking your car isn't theft.
>> No. 411767 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 10:20 pm
411767 spacer
>>411763
It isn't murder in the same way that a carrot isn't a fucking boeing 747.
>> No. 411769 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 10:32 pm
411769 spacer
>>411767
Well, no. You see, a carrot is not something that would be a 747 were it not for a couple of technicalities.
>> No. 411770 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 10:40 pm
411770 spacer
>>411769

If the carrot were made of aluminium, weighed 300 tonnes and had four jet engines, it'd be a 747. It's just a couple of technicalities.
>> No. 411771 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 10:46 pm
411771 spacer
>>411770
It really isn't, lad.
>> No. 411772 Anonymous
25th June 2017
Sunday 11:31 pm
411772 spacer
Technically, the carrot and the 747 both have the ability, in very different ways, to make you see in the dark.

Yes I know it was just WW2 propaganda, you shuffling quadra-spaz.
>> No. 411773 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 12:18 am
411773 spacer
>>411770

>If the carrot were made of aluminium, weighed 300 tonnes and had four jet engines, it'd be a 747.

Why would you put jet engines on a carrot?
>> No. 411774 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 12:41 am
411774 spacer
>>411773
That would be a silly idea, not least because of how jet fuel interacts with steel beams.
>> No. 411775 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 11:02 am
411775 spacer
Murder is that thing that requires intention. (which didn't happen unless you belive Lilly Allen et al's stories about faceless billionares in top hats twirling their mostaches).

A 747 is that thing that follows Bowing's design specifications, which expressly rules out the use of carrots in the fusilage even if you tied 4x Rolls-Royce RB211s to it, it would not be one.
>> No. 411776 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 11:27 am
411776 spacer
I'm going to assume you lads are talking about carrots doing nine eleven because of the heat.
>> No. 411778 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 11:35 am
411778 spacer
There is only one, small, technical difference between a carrot and a 747 and that is that one's a carrot and the other's a 747.
>> No. 411782 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 12:48 pm
411782 spacer
Have you lot lost it?
>> No. 411783 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 12:50 pm
411783 spacer
>>411775
>Murder is that thing that requires intention
It requires intent, but not necessarily intent to kill. Someone intentionally downgraded the fireproofing on the cladding for financial reasons, and people died as a direct consequence of that deliberate action. If this were an individual landlord and an individual supplier, they'd both be tried for murder and would likely go to jail for a very long time.

Not that the specific details matter given he's speaking figuratively. It's like when people complain about calling OJ Simpson a murderer. He may have been acquitted on the charge but he very obviously killed his wife. Even the jurors who tried the case now admit this.
>> No. 411786 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 1:44 pm
411786 spacer
>>411783
>It requires intent, but not necessarily intent to kill.

No you stupid cunt:
>Intent
>For the principal defendant, (see later for Joint Enterprise) the intent for murder is the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH), nothing less. Foresight is no more than evidence from which the jury may draw the inference of intent, c.f. R v Woollin [1999] 1 Cr App R 8 (HOL).

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/#intent

>Not that the specific details matter given he's speaking figuratively.

So back to the other original point of the other lad: John McDonnell was wrong and deliberately trying to stoke up tensions because he's a complete fucking dickhead trying to use the tragedy for his own agenda.
>> No. 411787 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 1:58 pm
411787 spacer
>>411786
Derek Bentley didn't kill anyone. Neither he nor his juvenile accomplice went in intending to kill anyone. Indeed, the shooting happened when his accomplice misunderstood an instruction to hand over the gun. He was nevertheless convicted of murder and hanged for it.

Anyway, since you seem to have difficulty with both the law and figures of speech you'd best get back to work before your bosses at CCHQ find out you've wasted your morning on an obscure imageboard used by three people.
>> No. 411789 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 2:10 pm
411789 spacer
>>411787
>Derek Bentley didn't kill anyone.

Kill =/= Murder but yes he was pardoned. Again refer to CPS guidlines.
>> No. 411792 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 2:36 pm
411792 spacer
>>411789
>Kill =/= Murder
That's not how that works, lad.

>but yes he was pardoned
Yes. Pardoned, not cleared. Pardons are personal and extrajudicial so do not set precedent. Someone in the same position could not point to someone else's pardon in support of their own case.
>> No. 411795 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 3:27 pm
411795 spacer
>>411792
>>Kill =/= Murder
>That's not how that works, lad.


Not them but, That’s exactly how it works. Killing is not always murder, like say when the police kill a group of daft militant wogs running around London Bridge stabbing people, or when a doctor cuts Siamese twins apart because it will save one of their lives but definitely kill the other, or if someone deliberately walks in front of your car, but you don't react quick enough. Killing someone is not always murder. Murder is a subset of killing someone.
>> No. 411796 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 3:38 pm
411796 spacer
>>411795
>Not them but, That’s exactly how it works.
No, it isn't. Go read the part he quoted again. He's suggesting that murder isn't always killing, which is the reverse of what you just said.
>> No. 411797 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 3:47 pm
411797 spacer
This is fascinating stuff. Here are some suggestions for future episodes of Autism Today:

* The Japanese Empire didn't have a penis, therefore Nanking was not raped.
* Jimmy Savile clearly couldn't have groomed the nation because the nation is considerably over 16 years old.
* Richard the Lionheart actually had a human heart like everyone else.
* The band Thompson Twins were not twins. There were three of them and none were called Thompson.
* This board is called "random" but it's clearly not random at all.
>> No. 411799 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 4:09 pm
411799 spacer
>>411797

>Autism Today

I'm pitching that to Radio 4. It'd fit in nicely between World at One and the Archers repeat.
>> No. 411801 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 6:15 pm
411801 spacer

18mj6h78zjm1pjpg.jpg
411801411801411801
>>411797

>* The band Thompson Twins were not twins. There were three of them and none were called Thompson.


I sense potential for a Milli Vanilly-type lawsuit.
>> No. 411808 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 8:18 pm
411808 spacer
>>411801
I would say that the scandal was a hammer blow, but then our autistic torylad would complain because nobody hit them with a hammer and as far as we know MC Hammer never sucked them off.
>> No. 411811 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 9:12 pm
411811 spacer
>>411792
You may be shocked to learn that the Court of Appeal did in fact quash the judgement and pardon him:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/142351.stm

>>411796
I said kill does not equal murder. That is what this '=/=' means.

Are we just going to go round in circles because you can't get it into your head that murder has an intent element? Even after evidence has been posted that explicitly states this fact?
>> No. 411812 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 9:19 pm
411812 spacer
ремув кебаб
>> No. 411813 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 9:23 pm
411813 spacer
>>411811
>Are we just going to go round in circles because you can't get it into your head that murder has an intent element?
No. We are just going to go round in circles because you can't get it into your head that when someone says "murder" they don't literally mean the offence of murder as defined in the Homicide Act 1957, you mouth-breathing carpet-bagger.
>> No. 411816 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 9:43 pm
411816 spacer
>>411808

Blame it on the rain.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiZVrTaC9Pg


Fun fact: Their producer Frank Farian cheated on Boney M records as well. He sang all the male voices himself. Boney M's "singer" Bobby was just for show. And it's painfully obvious when you watch live performances:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvYcsI7z73M

He couldn't sing for toffee. And from the looks of it, he was a shit dancer as well.
>> No. 411817 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 10:30 pm
411817 spacer
>>411816
Anyone else remember the time someone tried that on Eurovision? The rules are strict and insist that all vocal elements are performed live on the main stage, so sometimes people try and hide their backing singers with clever staging or lighting. But then there was this one entry with a solo performer lip-syncing front and centre in the light with the actual singer unlit but still very visible in the corner of the stage.
>> No. 411818 Anonymous
26th June 2017
Monday 10:41 pm
411818 spacer
>>411816
It's more obvious in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jxqn-HOiR8
at about 1:40
Worth watching to see how ridiculous his dancing is the rest of the time.
>> No. 411819 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 12:46 am
411819 spacer
>>411813
Maybe the lad is on the spectrum and doesn't understand nuances and takes everything literally. Go easy on him.
>> No. 411823 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 1:09 am
411823 spacer

1200px-ZXSpectrum48k.jpg
411823411823411823
>>411819
>Maybe the lad is on the spectrum
I don't care what computer he uses, m7.
>> No. 411824 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 1:33 am
411824 spacer
>>411813
>>411819
Maybe you want to read the start of this discussion. The otherlads are correct that McDonnell deliberately used inflammatory language and frankly stupid comments like:

>>411757
>If you say so, fascistlad. Would it be murder of they were white?

Point to someone who either has no fucking idea what murder is or more likely is deliberately misusing the term to suggest that an act of negligence was something more deliberate.

Also the Homicide Act didn't define murder only refined it, there is no statute from Parliament that says murder is a crime it is a common law invention.
>> No. 411825 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 1:38 am
411825 spacer
I'm sure it's a worthwhile discussion, but this debate is making me want to set fire to a tower block full of innocents.
>> No. 411827 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 2:13 am
411827 spacer
>>411825
That won't be murder though.

>>411824
>an act of negligence was something more deliberate
Like leaving an IED on the motorway with a randomised timer? Will it ever blow up? If it does and people die, it really isn't murder, right?

I'm sure asbestos is dirt cheap. If I line all poor people's houses with it, is it really murder when they all die of lung complications? Or is this different because the cladding on Grenfell was "legal" and "within regulations"? So all those people died because a bunch of rich cunts in wigs never said that it was illegal to use it?

Fucking twat.
>> No. 411828 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 2:17 am
411828 spacer
>>411825
Given that a tower block full of innocents is only a couple of technical details away from being a carrot, it wouldn't be so different from simply making a casserole.
>> No. 411829 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 2:37 am
411829 spacer
>>411827
You're making me want to burn down some tower blocks full of poor brown-eyed people.
>> No. 411830 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 2:45 am
411830 spacer
>>411829
That's much further away from murder than >>411825

It's on a spectrum you see. Murder on one side, and Not Murder on the other.
>> No. 411831 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 3:01 am
411831 spacer
>>411827

>Or is this different because the cladding on Grenfell was "legal" and "within regulations"?

Yes. If the contractors were fully aware that the cladding was a serious fire risk despite being compliant with the regulations, they may have committed manslaughter by gross negligence. If they knew that the cladding wasn't compliant with the regulations but fitted it anyway, they may have committed manslaughter by an unlawful and dangerous act. If they had been led to believe that the cladding was compliant with the applicable regulations and reasonably safe, then they are guilty of neither offence.

>Like leaving an IED on the motorway with a randomised timer?

That's murder, because the act of planting the IED is a deliberate act with the intention of causing harm, that you would reasonably believe could lead to death. There is obvious mens rea. It's not merely negligent, but actively malicious.

Imagine I'm a mechanic who does a really sloppy job of fixing your brakes, which causes you to crash and die. If I should have reasonably known that my poor workmanship might cause your death, I may be guilty of involuntary manslaughter by gross negligence. I didn't take any deliberate action to cause you harm, but I breached a duty of care that led to your death.

If I deliberately cut your brakes and you crash and die, then I may be guilty of murder. I took a deliberate action to cause you harm that could be reasonably expected to lead to your death. That's the key distinction - I deliberately did something with the intention of causing harm, rather than doing something badly or failing to do something that might lead to harm being caused.

If you're still struggling with this, I'll get my crayons out and draw you a diagram.
>> No. 411832 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 3:17 am
411832 spacer
>>411831
>That's murder, because the act of planting the IED is a deliberate act with the intention of causing harm, that you would reasonably believe could lead to death.
Like putting up cladding that you know can easily catch fire and spread it everywhere?

Fuck off lad.
>> No. 411833 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 3:21 am
411833 spacer
>>411831
Is it murder if I drop a satellite from space just on your house and you die a horrible death?

There aren't any regulations about dropping satellites, and I thought it would "hit the ocean," rather than your house which is owned by your ugly mum.
>> No. 411834 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 3:22 am
411834 spacer
>>411832
I am beginning to believe you are mentally ill.
>> No. 411836 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 3:34 am
411836 spacer
>>411833

If you fired the thrusters to aim it at my house, it's murder. If you just let it drop out of orbit with no regard for where it might land, it's manslaughter by gross negligence. If you took every care to aim it at the ocean but it inadvertently crashed through my roof, it's just an accident.

This isn't rocket science.
>> No. 411837 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 3:36 am
411837 spacer
>>411836
Yeah but how would anyone know? I will try and aim for the ocean, but unbeknownst to anyone I will subconsciously hit your house with it and murder you and your ugly mum. It isn't murder right? Nobody can prove I hated you and your mum.
>> No. 411838 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 4:23 am
411838 spacer
>>411837

The police would interview you and your henchmen. They would search your volcanic lair for documents and computer data related to the satellite. Forensic experts would examine the smouldering wreckage of your satellite for telemetry data.

At trial, your innocence would be presumed. The jury would need to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that you either maliciously targeted the satellite at my house (for a charge of murder), or that you allowed the satellite to fall onto my house with flagrant disregard for my life (for a charge of involuntary manslaughter by gross negligence).

In the latter case, a total lack of evidence would strongly imply guilt. Where is the documentation demonstrating your health and safety precautions? What risk assessment did you undertake before performing the manoeuvre? What training did your underlings have in satellite re-entry procedures? What evidence is there that your satellite was well-designed and properly maintained? If you are completely unable to explain why your satellite obliterated my mum's house and why you were unable to prevent it, a jury may well be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that your management of the satellite was grossly negligent.
>> No. 411839 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 9:37 am
411839 spacer
>>411838
Of course, all of this is moot because before that satellite ever touches down sometime from MI6 will have stormed the lair, engaged the satellite's self-destruct, and pushed otherlad into his tank of laser sharks.
>> No. 411840 Anonymous
27th June 2017
Tuesday 10:09 am
411840 spacer
>>411838
We only had a month's training and we're oil miners not astronauts, damn it. What choice did we have?
>> No. 413648 Anonymous
16th November 2017
Thursday 6:10 pm
413648 spacer
Grenfell Tower final death toll stands at 71

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42008279

I guess that proves all the leftist conspiracy theories and fake news about hundreds dying were absolute bollocks.
>> No. 413649 Anonymous
16th November 2017
Thursday 6:39 pm
413649 spacer
>>413648
There's something wrong with your brain.
>> No. 413650 Anonymous
16th November 2017
Thursday 6:51 pm
413650 spacer
>>413649
It's undeniable that people, particularly those on the left, were shamelessly trying to exploit Grenfell for political capital and were trying to paint this as a major sea change, where of course the momentum was supposedly travelling in the direction they just happened to want it to go, whereas the reality, now that the dust has settled, is that this has turned to be pure hyperbole.
>> No. 413651 Anonymous
16th November 2017
Thursday 7:02 pm
413651 spacer
>>413650
Says the lad attempting to use Grenfell to score political capital.
>> No. 413652 Anonymous
16th November 2017
Thursday 7:12 pm
413652 spacer
>>413651
I think you overestimate the influence of Britfa.gs.
>> No. 413653 Anonymous
16th November 2017
Thursday 7:30 pm
413653 spacer
>>413652
You're still just trying to "win" the debate here, for the little dopamine boost it gives you.
>> No. 413689 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 1:03 pm
413689 spacer
>>413653

Not them but I agree it is important to expose all stupid moral panic conspiracy crap like this on the hopes that maybe people won't be as stupid next time. Even if they all decide you are just being really boring because they don't want to face that they were wrong and besides that was 3 moral panics ago, this one is definitely worse than they are telling us. As the saying goes “A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.”
>> No. 413690 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 2:38 pm
413690 spacer
>>413689

> on the hopes that maybe people won't be as stupid next time.

Oh lad.
>> No. 413691 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 3:04 pm
413691 spacer
>>413690

That's Mr lad to you darling.
>> No. 413693 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 5:33 pm
413693 spacer
>>413690
People were stupid, though. They either got caught up in the wave of hysteria or were taking advantage of the situation to propagate their own agendas and propaganda.

Look at the OP of this thread. "It's going to prove a turning point in Britsh history." What rot.
>> No. 413719 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 6:42 pm
413719 spacer
>>413648
Yeah... Only 71. I too hoped that more poor people died that day.
>> No. 413720 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 7:22 pm
413720 spacer
>>413719
>poor people

See:

>>411352
https://www.openrent.co.uk/property-to-rent/london/2-bed-flat-grenfell-tower-w11/219191

See also:

>Marco Gottardi and his girlfriend Gloria Trevisan, both architects from the Veneto region of northern Italy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/have-whole-life-ahead-dont-want-die-final-call-italian-woman/

That the victims of Grenfell were all poor people is a false narrative. Young professionals lived and died in Grenfell. People who'd spent hundreds of thousands to buy their own apartments lived and died in Grenfell, yet their lives are ignored by those where reality is inconvenient for the narrative they wish to push.
>> No. 413721 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 7:28 pm
413721 spacer
>>413720
Busting a gut to live alongside dolescum, whether or not you have a nice kitchen, is a fool's game.
>> No. 413722 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 7:48 pm
413722 spacer
>>413721
Isn't that London in a nutshell?
>> No. 413723 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 8:57 pm
413723 spacer
>>413722

My cousin is a university lecturer and lives in a lock-up garage. London is fucking mental.
>> No. 413724 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 9:00 pm
413724 spacer
>>413723
Your cousin is fucking stupid*
>> No. 413725 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 9:16 pm
413725 spacer
>>413724

No word of a lie, a lot of her colleagues are envious of her lock-up. It's quiet, it's reasonably warm and the rent is the right side of a grand a month. A lot of people want to live in London. Who am I to judge?
>> No. 413726 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 11:22 pm
413726 spacer
>>413725
A lot of people are fucking stupid.
>> No. 413727 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 7:21 am
413727 spacer
>>413725
>A lot of people want to live in London

I don't get it. If I did the same job in London then I could, at best, earn 15-20% more but my living costs would increase by a greater amount so I'd actually be worse off in net terms.

I've no intention of living in a grotty houseshare with strangers at my age, you'd hardly have any money to afford to actually socialise, you're probably going to get stabbed, mugged or have acid thrown in your face and the city is so soulless because everyone is either a tourist or a drone bustling about.
>> No. 413728 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 9:12 am
413728 spacer
>>413727

So much wealth and activity is concentrated there that the expenses are more than offset, depending on what you value. Social venues may be prohibitively expensive, but London easily has more going for it in the sheer number and variety of groups there are to associate with.
>> No. 413729 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 9:47 am
413729 spacer
>>413728
It's also a lot easier to avoid any particular people and be just another face in the crowd, if that's your bag.
>> No. 413730 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 12:44 pm
413730 spacer
>>413727

A lot of industries are heavily London-centric. If you want to work in something like media or finance, your career progression is severely limited if you're not in London. Most people eventually move out to the home counties when they can afford it, but shitty flatshares are just a price you have to pay for opportunity in the early stages of your career.
>> No. 413766 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 4:25 pm
413766 spacer
>>413730

>A lot of industries are heavily London-centric. If you want to work in something like media or finance, your career progression is severely limited if you're not in London.

It does depend on what kind of career you envision for yourself. If you'll be happy reporting on dog bites and stolen milk bottles for a small regional newspaper up north, then there's no point in you moving to London hoping to land a job at the Times or the Guardian. Or if you don't mind working for an ad agency that designs flyers for a hipster bar (assuming they don't make them themselves on their £1,000 Macbooks while sipping on fair traded latte). Likewise, you can spend your whole life being a small wheel in a local NatWest branch in Tynesside, or even move up to run the place at some point. You don't have to become an investment wbanker at the London stock exchange.

If you have higher aspirations, then yes, a few years spent at a major company in your field in London is definitely a feather in your cap. But you might indeed find that it'll be difficult to find a job back in your home town once you've become Assistant Global Brand Manager. There isn't much that local businesses in rural Yorkshire will be able to do for you employment wise.
>> No. 413769 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 5:05 pm
413769 spacer
>>413766
There's plenty of decent finance opportunities in Yorkshire.

Fund houses like Investec have offices in Leeds. Discretionary fund managers like Brewin Dolphin have offices in Leeds. The most successful branch of St James's Place is on an office park on the outskirts of Leeds. The head office of Yorkshire Building Society is on the outskirts of Bradford. There's national stockbrokers like Redmayne Bentley with their head offices in Leeds.There's similar opportunities in York and Sheffield. The big accountancy firms have offices there. You get the idea.

There's plenty of opportunities if you look for them. The whole you've got to go to London if you want a successful career is bollocks. Maybe if you want to be a fund manager or something but that's a very small number of people compared with the people who flock to London. It reminds me of the whole brainwashing under New Labour of you've got to go to university or you fail at life.
>> No. 413770 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 5:20 pm
413770 spacer
>>413769

I did say rural Yorkshire, but then again just to illustrate my point; I don't know Yorkshire very well myself for that matter.

> The whole you've got to go to London if you want a successful career is bollocks. Maybe if you want to be a fund manager or something but that's a very small number of people compared with the people who flock to London.

One of my mates initially trained in London at Lloyds at their headquarters in London after school. They then told him that if he wanted to further his career, he had to go to uni and study something finance related. So he did, but in Cardiff. If I understood him correctly, simply for the sake of living somewhere else besides London for some time. Did his MSc in finance there. The catch was that he met his fiance there, who was from Cardiff born and raised. He would have liked to stay in Cardiff after uni, but they told him that there were no positions with Lloyds in that whole region that he would have been a good fit to work as. They did offer him one job as some sort of regional manager, but told him "You wouldn't be happy there, and we wouldn't be happy either". So he had to bite the bullet and move back to London. Made a big career for himself, going on eight years now, huge salary too.

I guess my point is, you kind of sell your soul if you opt for the big career in London. At some level, you will have to stay in London if you want to keep finding work in your field.

Return ] Entire Thread ] First 100 posts ] Last 50 posts ]
whiteline

Delete Post []
Password