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>> No. 413518 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 11:12 am
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I almost forgot it was Remembrance coming up without that anti-Poppy-lad reminding us.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qDGCov9AJU

Did you get yourself a poppy this year?
Expand all images.
>> No. 413519 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 11:57 am
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Nope. Seen hardly any people wearing them this year, so I'm hoping people are starting to realise the pointlessness.
>> No. 413521 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 1:23 pm
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It does seem to be dying off a bit this year. It still signals the beginning of the shittest couple of months of the year though.
>> No. 413523 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 4:44 pm
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No. I do think if we want to move on as a society we need to stop glorifying the horrors of war. If the poppy was representative in everyone's minds as a reminder the government took teenage boys from their homes and threw them into trenches, often poorly kitted and sometimes unarmed, to be slaughtered in the name of the crown, I'd be alright with it.

Instead it's remembering are heroes, which is frankly ridiculous. We're talking about terrified children as if they're brave soldiers who fought for our freedom. We might not have forgotten them, but we've certainly forgotten they didn't have a choice. Get out that trench or be shot by your officer anyway. Pick up a gun when your mate gets shot. And I'm supposed to represent that 'sacrifice' with a poppy?

Might as well have a day where we give thanks to the slaves that build our empire.
>> No. 413524 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 4:56 pm
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>>413519
>>413521
Yeah, looking around today I didn't see poppies anywhere aside from the ones on lamposts. Although admittedly, being out during a weekday afternoon I just saw the untermenschen.

kind of sad if I'm honest. The money does after all go to causes that should be funded through taxation. If there is a drop in revenue 100 years after Passchendaele we're probably due for some soul-searching.

>>413523
>we've certainly forgotten they didn't have a choice

That's a bit revisionist B1064. Even if we pretend people didn't voluntarily march off to the Great War to defend their country (or Belgium) we have soldiers fighting now who don't have a gun in their back -no amount of bad poetry can explain away that.
>> No. 413525 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 5:04 pm
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>>413524
I can: people were lied to back then about the necessity of military conflict and they are lied to today just the same.
>> No. 413526 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 5:21 pm
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>>413523
You and anyone else who wants to keep updated on the anti-militarism movement should sign up to the ForcesWatch mailing list:
https://www.forceswatch.net/stay_in_touch
>> No. 413527 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 5:26 pm
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>>413525
Are you trying to pretend that people do not presently join the military as free-thinking individuals who have access to your views on things?
>> No. 413528 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 5:26 pm
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This year I haven't really seen any poppy fascism, but I've seen quite a few people complaining about it.

Is complaining about poppy fascism going the way of people complaining about [non-existent] banning of the flag of St. George?
>> No. 413530 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 5:39 pm
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>>413528
Actually, I made this thread earlier because I haven't even seen anyone moaning about it this year. Same goes for Christmas coming earlier and earlier despite the fact that we've all been gorging on mince pies since September.

My guess is that we're collectively distracted by other events or maybe we've just all become a bit numb after the snap general election and the knowledge that another one could strike at any moment. Yes, that must be it, we're like the brutalised urban Soviet population reacting to the Kronstadt rebellion with disinterest after years of hardship.
>> No. 413531 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 5:39 pm
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>>413523

Lad, times were different back then. The wishy washy pacifism you and me take for granted as sensible, logical thought now was entirely absent a century ago. We bred a different kind of person back then. People who grew up in turn of the century working class slums in Sheffield or Birmingham were properly hard, in a way spoiled modern folk have no concept of. You fought for every day's bread back then.

I'm in no way disagreeing with your sentiments about the war itself. But the people who went to fight it, a great many of them at least, bloody well wanted to fight it. Death for one's country was a noble sacrifice, and violence was viewed as a much more honourable deed than we see it as today, on both sides of the conflict.

Only the horrors of those years in the trenches put us on the route to the kind of pacifism we see today, frankly. Without that mass slaughter, history may have tread a path where we me still be every bit as jingoistic now.
>> No. 413532 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 5:53 pm
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>>413531

I see your point. But as you put it, that's how they were raised. As in, yes, they may have willingly signed up, but was it purely because of the jingoism of the day? Is it the modern luxury that affords us the mindset to say "actually, no, I'd rather not die for the Queen", or is it the result of being better educated about such things? If your average slum dweller back then had more than the church and his dad telling him his life belonged to the crown, would he have made the same choice?

I guess I'm just saying that yes, they may have wanted to, in the same way I 'want' to go to work every day and earn a wage in the modern era - it's because my entire life has been shaped and ushered into it.

In a way wearing a poppy is celebrating the lives lost to afford us the luxury to view a war with such pacifism. Which sort of gets my brain stuck in a feedback loop.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that a great many people pinning a poppy to themselves isn't thinking at all about these things.
>> No. 413535 Anonymous
10th November 2017
Friday 11:50 pm
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>>413527

There are undoubtedly some dodgy recruitment practices in our armed forces. We're one of the few developed nations to allow 16- and 17-year-olds to sign up. 16-year-olds make up about one in eight new recruits and are disproportionately likely to be from highly deprived backgrounds or care leavers. Many of these recruits don't have the literacy skills to understand the forms they're signing. The majority of these young recruits go into combat roles, so won't receive training that is of significant value in civilian life.

If the forces want to rely on the argument that soldiers are informed adults who know what they're signing up for, then they need to stop recruiting children.

>>413531

>I'm in no way disagreeing with your sentiments about the war itself. But the people who went to fight it, a great many of them at least, bloody well wanted to fight it. Death for one's country was a noble sacrifice, and violence was viewed as a much more honourable deed than we see it as today, on both sides of the conflict.

The same can be said for German soldiers. If we are to regard military service as a noble sacrifice, then we need to resolve that apparent contradiction.

Personally, I'd be far happier if Remembrance emphasised the ultimate futility of war and the importance of avoiding it in the first place. The Second World War may never have happened if it wasn't for the punitive nature of the Treaty of Versailles. Even at the time J.M. Keynes and others warned that the terms of the treaty practically guaranteed another war. The causes of the First World War are complex enough to be almost inexplicable, but I think there's a broad agreement that the conflict was in the service of imperial power rather than ordinary working people.
>> No. 413536 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 12:31 am
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>>413531
>Only the horrors of those years in the trenches put us on the route to the kind of pacifism we see today
Pacifism is far more than a century old, what the fuck are you on about?
>> No. 413537 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 1:14 am
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>>413535
>Personally, I'd be far happier if Remembrance emphasised the ultimate futility of war and the importance of avoiding it in the first place.
A good idea, if not a new one.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/01/where-can-i-buy-a-white-poppy-and-what-do-they-stand-for-7046324/
(Not suggesting you're unaware. It just fit the quote too well.)
>> No. 413538 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 1:16 am
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>>413536

Not him, but he did clearly say :

>route to the kind of pacifism
>> No. 413540 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 3:41 am
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>>413531
I mean, while I wouldn't deny some wanted to fight a war I have my doubts that anyone wanted to fight the war that we actually got.

Going off to run around shooting Germans in an active battle is one thing, going off to sit in a trench being shelled 24 hours a day and occasionally gassed before slowly marching into machine gun fire is quite another.
>> No. 413541 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 7:54 am
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>>413540
This is true even of drunks having a punch-up outside a kebab house. Nobody wants a fight more badly than someone who can't actually imagine what it would be like to have one.
>> No. 413543 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 1:48 pm
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>>413519

Nice account lad https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch
>> No. 413544 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 3:43 pm
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>>413541
Lots of lads love starting fights, just look at football hooliganism.
>> No. 413545 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 3:57 pm
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>>413535

>The same can be said for German soldiers. If we are to regard military service as a noble sacrifice, then we need to resolve that apparent contradiction.

Personally, I'd be far happier if Remembrance emphasised the ultimate futility of war and the importance of avoiding it in the first place. The Second World War may never have happened if it wasn't for the punitive nature of the Treaty of Versailles. Even at the time J.M. Keynes and others warned that the terms of the treaty practically guaranteed another war. The causes of the First World War are complex enough to be almost inexplicable, but I think there's a broad agreement that the conflict was in the service of imperial power rather than ordinary working people.

Yes. See-

>on both sides of the conflict

Frankly the same could be said of WW2 as well if it wasn't for all that genocide business.

It's worth remembering, that when the war started, we had no idea Hitler's regime would go on to be the must unanimously agreed evil of all history- The war started for much the same reasons as the one before it. A rival power on the continent threatened the delicate balance of Europe, and we (that is, our government) wanted to stop it.

History is written by the victor. However, remembrance day is something that's stuck with us as because of how badly the great war utterly shook our national psyche. We won, but nobody disputes that it was an utterly pyrrhic victory, and the British Empire never tried to militarily assert dominance in the same way again. Our involvement in the Second World War was guerrilla action by comparison to the campaigns we fought in the first.

But I digress. My original point was simply that the people of the day thought fighting to support your nation's power was just. We owe our modern views in no small part to Marx and the proliferation of his ideas as socialism spread in the mid to late 20th century. We see dying for the abstract idea of a nation and its power as fruitless, as exploitative. Those people back then thought that dying in order to serve their country's imperial ambition was worthwhile.
>> No. 413551 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 6:36 pm
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>>413535
As someone who joined up at 16 I can tell you that you're full of shit. The forms aren't rocket science and at any rate require your parents signature - in addition you have a 3 month period in which you can leave and under-18s can't be deployed in combat.

Yeah, you do get lads who have been homeless as teens and things of that nature but attaching malicious exploitation to that is nonsense. Of course the military is going to attract people from these backgrounds because it represents a big family and normally if you have family in the military already it exerts a pull creating its own class. Maybe we could fix economic differences (although we do well at the Commissioned Officer level) by introducing conscription but then I can just imagine how you would scream.

Now as someone who went in as a Combat Medic I've never had to deal with a gunshot wound in the real world but I wouldn't say the training and discipline hasn't had value in my civilian life. It's like earning a degree in a subject you never chase as a career, sure you can call it wasteful if you have an agenda but you do learn skills that aren't immediately apparent.

>>413545
>But I digress. My original point was simply that the people of the day thought fighting to support your nation's power was just. We owe our modern views in no small part to Marx and the proliferation of his ideas as socialism spread in the mid to late 20th century. We see dying for the abstract idea of a nation and its power as fruitless, as exploitative. Those people back then thought that dying in order to serve their country's imperial ambition was worthwhile.

Marx's position was already well entrenched by the 1914 and the collapse of the Second International is rather illustrative of the kinds of causes the people felt they were fighting for. Really I've noticed again and again your tedious grasp of history, the old German lies that the Great War had no aggressors, that the Second was because of Versailles - the reality is you're trying to cram as much generalisations in as possible to fit your ludicrous conclusion that everything boils down to exploitation by baddies in war. The world doesn't work this way.
>> No. 413555 Anonymous
11th November 2017
Saturday 10:48 pm
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>>413551

>the reality is you're trying to cram as much generalisations in as possible to fit your ludicrous conclusion that everything boils down to exploitation by baddies in war.

Except that that's the very opposite of what I'm arguing, you carpet-bagger.
>> No. 413561 Anonymous
12th November 2017
Sunday 12:47 pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH3-Gt7mgyM Here's to all the troops. On both sides.
>> No. 413565 Anonymous
12th November 2017
Sunday 5:16 pm
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I was out shopping this morning and completely forgot about Remembrance Day.

Everyone suddenly went quiet and stopped moving. At first I thought time had frozen or something. Surprisingly small number of people wearing poppies.
>> No. 413571 Anonymous
12th November 2017
Sunday 7:33 pm
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There was a Armistice Day dance set to The Proclaimers "I Would Walk 500 Miles" on Strictly. Is that another opportunity to think back to my great-grandfathers efforts in WW2 and the great-uncle who lost a toe to the IRA, or cloying nonsense to appease pretend patriots?

It's the second, definitely the second.
>> No. 413590 Anonymous
13th November 2017
Monday 2:20 pm
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>>413571
Just had a look, Jesus. And another OK Go 'homage'?

Why are the male dancers in fatigues also wearing poppies? It's not like they wore them in the trenches, they grew over their fucking corpses.
>> No. 413595 Anonymous
13th November 2017
Monday 5:17 pm
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5077413/filthy-fucking-raghead-scum-stealing-poppy-tin-for-are-brave-boys.html
>> No. 413596 Anonymous
13th November 2017
Monday 5:53 pm
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>>413595
Oh, Christ...

It's really important to the story that she is wearing a headscarf, but the Mail curiously doesn't elaborate on why.
>> No. 413611 Anonymous
13th November 2017
Monday 10:29 pm
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>>413571
>There was a Armistice Day dance set to The Proclaimers "I Would Walk 500 Miles" on Strictly.
Top notch remembrancing from the Beeb there. Maximum respect for the Fallen. There's nothing that conveys the full horror of war quite like people prancing around a ballroom to the house band's rendition of a 1980s pop song. I bet Poppy Watch would give it at least 10/10 if not more.

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