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November-leaves.jpg
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>> No. 413694 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 5:40 pm
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Weekend thread? Weekend thread.
Expand all images.
>> No. 413695 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 5:57 pm
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>>413694
I'm using up my holidays for this year, so my weekend started yesterday.
>> No. 413696 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 6:07 pm
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Oh shit it's Friday already? I don't even know what day it is half the time.
>> No. 413697 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 6:12 pm
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>>413695
Quite a few people at work have started doing this. One has booked off every Friday for the rest of the year and another has about 15 days still to take.
>> No. 413698 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 6:26 pm
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>>413697
Some of us were slaving away over a hot laptop while the rest of you slackers getting rat-arsed in Majorca.
>> No. 413699 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 7:48 pm
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>>413698
Reminder that the "No slacking" man got married to a woman almost sixty years younger than him.
>> No. 413700 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 8:33 pm
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I will be raking leaves off the lawn at my parents' house tomorrow afternoon. They are kind of getting to an age where that's a bit of a do for them, so I volunteered to do it.
>> No. 413701 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 8:54 pm
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>>413700
Never work for free.
>> No. 413702 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 9:06 pm
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>>413701

Well in some respect, my parents largely worked for free when they spent 18 years raising me.

You're really an ungrateful git if you don't repay your parents now and then, a little here and a little there, when they are starting to become frail.

Just think how many shit smeared nappies they removed from you when you were a toddler. They never complained. They never asked any money from you for that.
>> No. 413703 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 10:20 pm
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>>413702
>Just think how many shit smeared nappies they removed from you when you were a toddler

Yeah but nobody ever asked their parents to do that, or indeed to conceive them.

Ideally, sure, people should feel a sense of duty to their parents, but some people have far from ideal parental relationships.
>> No. 413704 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 11:08 pm
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>>413702
I have come to realize this especially since my lad was born.
>> No. 413705 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 11:27 pm
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No plans, parkrun morning maybe, then get drunk, probably in London. Where do you get drunk in London when you don't have anyone to drink with? Sign up to some horribly touristy pub crawl.
>> No. 413706 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 11:53 pm
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>>413703

>Yeah but nobody ever asked their parents to do that, or indeed to conceive them. 

It's maybe kind of a good idea to not talk that way in front of your parents. Because you are being a miserable cunt here.
>> No. 413707 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:13 am
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Watching the story of how Kurt Cobain offed himself, it's on Channel5+24 right now.

What a shit way to go... putting a shotgun in your mouth...
>> No. 413708 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:31 am
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>>413706

It's sort of true though. Obviously it's not a great thing to say apropos of nothing, but my mother has certainly pulled the "after all I've done for you" card before.

For her to argue that I owe her something because she shat me out and fed me and all the things you're supposed to do when you decide to have a child, well, that's sort of silly. It's not that I don't appreciate it, it's more that if you decide to have a child (and my parents did decide to have me), then you should never feel like you've gone above and beyond by fucking caring for it.
>> No. 413709 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:45 am
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>>413708

You could still just be grateful that they took their parenting duties seriously enough and made sure you would turn out right.

No, you haven't gone above the call of duty simply by providing a proper home for your child to grow up in. That's a given. But thinking of all the things that go wrong in families, I can't help feeling grateful that my parents did all that for me. That they were simply good parents to me.
>> No. 413713 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 3:15 am
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>>413709

>You could still just be grateful that they took their parenting duties seriously enough and made sure you would turn out right.

Not him, but given that I spent most of my late teens and early twenties bouncing between homeless hostels and psychiatric hospitals, I don't feel particularly grateful.

I was born because my mother thought that my father was going to leave her. She stopped taking the pill without telling him in an attempt to trap him. It sort of worked, for a bit, until it didn't. Mum didn't have any malice in her, but she could barely look after herself, let alone a child.

I often wonder how many people are the result of split condoms, missed pills, last-ditch efforts to save a relationship or the vague sense that having children is just what you're supposed to do. I wonder how many people would have been given up for adoption if there was no stigma attached to abandoning a baby. I wonder how many people bitterly regret having children but are too afraid to admit it, even to themselves.
>> No. 413714 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 3:23 am
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>>413709

I did say:

>It's not that I don't appreciate it

Very clearly, I'm thankful I was raised well. I also happen to think raising your child well should be the absolute minimum goal for choosing to have a child. So I'll never particularly respond to the cliched parental argument that is "they've done so much for you" - my response would be that at no point was it my fault I was alive.

I wouldn't expect someone to pat me on the back for keeping my car roadworthy or feeding my goldfish.
>> No. 413715 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 3:27 am
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>>413713

>I wonder how many people bitterly regret having children but are too afraid to admit it, even to themselves.

I suspect a great many. It's usually masked by the many clever ways our nature works, such as attachment and love and all that, but yeah, I'm pretty sure if my parents looked at me outside of that rose tinted spotlight of parental drive, they'd see me as an abject waste of their time and energy. I don't mean to sound like I'm just suffering low self esteem, I just mean they've spent inordinate amounts of time, effort and money, to produce a fairly ordinary bloke approaching his thirties. Poor investment, really.
>> No. 413716 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:17 pm
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>>413694
It's a nice picture, I do feel quite autumnal this weekend.

Might stay in and read a book.
>> No. 413717 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 1:43 pm
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>>413713

>Not him, but given that I spent most of my late teens and early twenties bouncing between homeless hostels and psychiatric hospitals, I don't feel particularly grateful.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Myself, I may have come from a middle-to-upper middle class upbringing with a nice house in the suburbs, but I was no stranger to family dysfunction growing up. My dad had an affair when I was at the vulnerable age of nine, and then when my dad's girlfriend threatened to tell everything to my mum if he wasn't going to leave us of his own accord, my dad actually went and killed himself. My mum then spent years in therapy and developed a bipolar disorder, she started drinking - briefly - , and my brother and I pretty much had to take care of a mentally ill remaining parent while we were still just teenagers.

So you see, it'd be easy for me to be bitter about my parents screwing up. And yet, I can't say I feel bitter about my life. Or my parents. It is what it is. And it's never good to keep up that anger inside you all your life. Make your peace with what has happened to you. Because that anger will eat away at all the positivity that you might manage to draw from other areas in your life.

Also, that whole "I didn't ask to be born" what-have-you, well, that's fine if you're a pimply 14-year-old who's going through his phase of puberty angst. But as an adult, that's a dark place to be. Be thankful that you are here, in spite of all the odds.
>> No. 413718 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 2:36 pm
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>>413716
Go on, get wrapped up in a blanket and have a nice warm mug of cocoa.
>> No. 413731 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 2:57 pm
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I did three drops of acid last night, then was pretty much drinking and smoking constantly, then had a shit load of week. This did not end well. But then I woke up this morning it has snowed and is still snowing, so it's very nice and Christmasy.
>> No. 413732 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 3:28 pm
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>>413718
Went out for a marvellous dinner with wife and then have spent the rest of the weekend doing just that. Only with tea. Middle age is great.
>> No. 413733 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 7:37 pm
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Chopped up a load of trees we felled in May, Burned all the crapwood in a massive bonfire, bagged the logs for the winter. Just about to settle down with a book & dog in front of the fire, burning some of today's booty.
Chainsaw's fucked, though, feels like it's running lean, won't rev.
>> No. 413736 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 11:43 pm
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>>413733
If you're going to live like it's the 1800s instead of using a more clean & efficient source of heating, then why not go all the way and use one of these?
>> No. 413737 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 11:50 pm
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>>413736

>use one of these

I'm set.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xaIKM-GYV4
>> No. 413738 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 12:48 am
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>>413713

> I often wonder how many people are the result of split condoms, missed pills, last-ditch efforts to save a relationship or the vague sense that having children is just what you're supposed to do.

That pretty much sums up all the reasons why people have kids, especially the last one.
>> No. 413739 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 1:22 am
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>>413738

That sounds a bit too grim.

My parents always wanted kids.

Or so we were told.
>> No. 413740 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 2:03 am
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>>413739

It's a biological imperative and inevitable, barring any complications, if you're having unprotected sex. Which, by the way, your Mum and Dad totally did. Probably more than once. Maybe even while you were in utero.
>> No. 413741 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 2:11 am
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>>413739

My parents wanted kids too, but I don't think you have to drill down too far to realise the 'why' is little more than 'because that's what you're supposed to do'.
>> No. 413742 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 3:05 am
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>>413740

At some point, your da has probably begged your ma to let him shag her up the arse. He might have succeeded.
>> No. 413743 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 9:26 am
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>>413742
Ma says that's why my little brother Rahid is a different colour.
>> No. 413744 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 10:43 am
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>>413736
Got several of those, thanks. And bigger, and loppers, and saws.
We do have bottled gas out here in the arse end of nowhere - but I do like a fire. Wouldn't want to rely on it, but it's good for the soul. I do ache like a bastard today, though.
Also - the trees had to go. Stupid trees in a stupid place. Might as well burn them, rather than paying to get rid.
>> No. 413750 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 11:49 pm
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>>413741

https://www.elitedaily.com/life/why-science-says-having-kids-may-be-a-bad-idea

>Why Science Says Having Kids May Be A Bad Idea
>> No. 413755 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 8:43 am
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>>413750
What a shitty article.
>> No. 413756 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 10:44 am
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>>413755

There is so much wrong with that article I question if Tatiana Baez is a real person they are either some sort of algorithm, a team of Chinese MMORPG farmers who decided to diversity their business model or the equivalent of Alan Smithee. Regardless of the method, I would be surprised if that article took longer to write than it took me to read.
>> No. 413757 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 11:58 am
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>>413756

It's the ugly side of content curation. Where news and e-zine sites no longer provide actual news and well-researched information, but just farm clickbait that was written by authors who barely deserve to be called such. It's roughly the same as teaser links like "This man learned ten languages in a week. Read how".
>> No. 413781 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 12:44 am
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>>413757

Like I need to bother. Adderall and meth!
>> No. 413782 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 12:51 am
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>>413781
> Adderall and meth!

Redundancy is worse than procrastination.
>> No. 413784 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 2:58 am
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>>413757

I like the DM Online ones that are just a collection of pictures the junior serfs saw on their Twitter feeds.
>> No. 413785 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 12:47 pm
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>>413784

>a collection of pictures the junior serfs saw on their Twitter feeds.

A friend in America told me that that's the way much of local television news in the U.S. works now. You've got three or four people in the newsroom scanning Twitter for everything weird and wonderful from around the area, and then that's sold to the viewing public as news.
>> No. 413787 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 2:30 pm
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A ****** just stole my bike, propped up against KFC no less.

That'll teach me not to leave the next one unlocked I guess. Can't really be arsed reporting it for the good that'll do.
>> No. 413790 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 5:06 pm
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I just thought I'd let you lads know that Pokemon has made 45 billion USD in retail sales alone since 1996.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_highest-grossing_media_franchises
>> No. 413792 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 5:53 pm
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>>413787
>That'll teach me not to leave the next one unlocked I guess.

Oh lad. I feel your pain, having had bikes nicked like this, but.
>> No. 413796 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 6:56 pm
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>>413787
I reported mine stolen and had it returned to me by the police a month later.
>> No. 413801 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 8:35 pm
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Sage advice from the incomparable Derek Griffiths:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UrX5XqWH4g
>> No. 413814 Anonymous
23rd November 2017
Thursday 11:12 am
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My mums bike wheel got stolen the other day. Just the wheel. It's not even a good wheel.
>> No. 413828 Anonymous
23rd November 2017
Thursday 9:10 pm
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>>413814

Broken Britain.
>> No. 413833 Anonymous
23rd November 2017
Thursday 11:59 pm
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>>413828

Nah, just a broken bike.
>> No. 413835 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 12:28 am
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>>413694

I plan on making the most of the zeal for deals tomorrow and bagging myself a new router as the one I have has been LITERALLY ruining my life for the past 6 months.

I'm going to go see that Poirot film to see who pissed in Daisy Ridley's arse.
>> No. 413838 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 1:05 am
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>>413835
>who pissed in Daisy Ridley's arse.
Presumably the answer is everyone, because who wouldn't?
>> No. 413840 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 9:13 am
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And once again I wish I was dead.
>> No. 413842 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 1:09 pm
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My car is in the shop. It needs all new brake discs and pads in the front. They also strongly recommended changing the brake fluid, as their brake fluid testing device showed three red lights. They also told me on the phone that my wishbones will need changing soon. It's the bushes that are worn out, but they told me it's cheaper to mount all new wishbones than the amount of time it would take to just change the bushes.

The brakes alone are going to cost over 300 quid. Just what I need right before Christmas.
>> No. 413847 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 4:52 pm
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>>413842
I think they saw you coming.
>> No. 413857 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:18 pm
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>>413842
Are they by any chance brake and/or suspension specialists?
>> No. 413858 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:26 pm
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>>413842
>wishbones will need changing soon. It's the bushes that are worn out
Thought this was a "tin of tartan paint and a long weight" type thing until I googled and learned those are actual car parts.

Don't know what to believe anymore.
>> No. 413859 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:38 pm
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>>413847

Seems like fairly reasonable standard maintenance to me.

I think people distrust garages a lot but I've not really found a dodgy independent one yet. Halfords and Kwik Fit etc. are far, far more likely to rinse you, from what I hear.

In my own personal experience, since I work on my cars myself, whenever I take one in for work done/MOT prep I already know what it needs. I never tell them I know what I'm on about, just to see. But I've never once had anyone tell me I needed some part or other that I didn't actually need.

It must be shite to have them tell you that it needs x,y, and z and have no choice but to believe them, though.
>> No. 413861 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:59 pm
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Just got my car took off me by the rozzers, for driving without insurance.

My own stupid fault, as it turns out the insurance I thought I was paying had failed to come out of my account (that I rarely check as I don't have online banking with it) and I had given the insurers my old offices as the mailing and phone address, so I failed to receive any of their correspondence about it.

Not only that but I was halfway through moving house, so not only have I been driving around in a 30 grand Range Rover completely uninsured for three weeks, like a total fucking prick, it's now sat in a police yard full to the brim with most of the contents of my flat.

I feel like a right knob, and I'll feel even worse once I get the SIX mandatory penalty points. My first ever in ten years of driving. Funny thing is too, it's going to cost me more to insure the thing to get it out of the impound than the actual fine I'll get.

Lesson would be to either pay the full year's premium up front or...just be more observant I suppose. Fucking hell. All I can say is I'm lucky I didn't end up in an accident.
>> No. 413862 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:06 pm
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>>413861

Not an expert, but that might be worth chasing up with a solicitor.
>> No. 413863 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:19 pm
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>>413862

No you aren't which is why I presume you would talk to a solicitor in the first place. What you seem to be suggesting though is that you need an expert in tell people to see experts.
>> No. 413865 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:23 pm
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>>413862

From what I can tell, there's not much wiggle room in these cases. I was indisputably driving without insurance, whether I was aware or not may not be relevant.

I have a solicitor for work stuff so I'll run it by him, but ultimately although I can certainly prove I didn't know it had ran out, the reason I didn't was because I hadn't updated my contact details with the insurer. So I reckon I'm stuck with it.

Who has points here? How much harder is it to get insured after six points?
>> No. 413870 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:42 pm
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>>413865
I got done for driving without insurance in very similar circumstances - it is an absolute offence, you can't really plead not guilty.

What you can do is plead guilty, write a letter of mitigation, accepting responsibility, and describing what happened. I had a similar situation to you, did all this, and had the case dismissed. There are no loopholes, but if you're honest and there are extenuating circumstances, that you didn't do this wilfully, knowingly or recklessly, you might get lucky.
>> No. 413871 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:46 pm
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I was talking with my mates today and it turns out I'm the only one who isn't either living hand to mouth or in about £15,000 to £20,000 of credit card or loan debt. Is this normal?

>>413859
> I think people distrust garages a lot but I've not really found a dodgy independent one yet.

I've used six garages in my lifetime to date. Five were completely trustworthy but the other was far from it. They didn't even put everything back together properly, causing a leak, and tried insisting on cash in hand so they could evade tax. Last I'd heard they'd opened up as a new company on the same site with the exact same people.
>> No. 413873 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:17 pm
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>>413871
'Is this normal' is a meaningless question. Normal for whom? Your class, your area, your age group?

I have tens of thousands of student loan debt but I'm presuming that's not what you mean.
>> No. 413875 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:25 pm
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>>413871

I'd say both are fairly common with people in their twenties at the moment. Credit card debt is very easy to sink in to, and wages aren't exactly at an all time high, with plenty of people stuck at NWM or close enough to it, or just simply unable to find a full time job at all.
>> No. 413878 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:49 pm
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>>413873
I'd say we're probably all lower middle class, early thirties and graduates.

I think they're all below the national average income, but a lot of it goes down to profligacy and poor life choices. Perhaps it's just me but if I owed £18,000 on credit cards I wouldn't travel to New York to watch the Thanksgiving parade and to go shopping. I believe I'm the only one with things like a pension.
>> No. 413879 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:55 pm
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>>413878

>Perhaps it's just me but if I owed £18,000 on credit cards I wouldn't travel to New York to watch the Thanksgiving parade and to go shopping.

That's fair, neither would I. Though, I've never been in that much debt, I bet actually once you reach a number that feels to you like you'll never pay it off anyway, you might be inclined to not give a shit anymore. Not particularly responsible but I could understand the psychology behind it.
>> No. 413898 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:14 pm
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>>413865

Just don't declare them and avoid crashing your car till they expire.
>> No. 413899 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:19 pm
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>>413879

As what I would call working class (despite having had the education and introspection to be painfully aware that I shouldn't be), I can say for certain that there's a certain numbness that goes with being poor, and socialising almost entirely amongst people who are equally poor.

I've got about £8,000 hanging over me because of incredibly daft things I did when I was younger, reckless, and mentally unstable. The prospect of saving for a deposit on a house seems so far off as to be unattainable (I do have a plan, it just feels out of reach), even in the "cheap" areas up here. Thinking about and planning for the longer term future, despite how fast it is creeping up on me, is so stressful as to be almost painful, especially when you hear about the state of what we're heading towards every day in the news.

So yeah, you take out another credit card and treat yourself to a couple of weeks away because at the end of the day, you learn your place in society. You know you're one of those folk who are going to make do with what they've got, you're never going to have the luxury some people afford. Why spend a lifetime playing it safe, eating lentils and putting another jumper on instead of turning the heating up, never enjoying a moment of it, because that's the sensible option? One day you'll get to turn the heating on and not worry?

Fuck all that, just get another loan out and fuck off to Greece for a fortnight, at least you'll have fun with your brief time on this planet.
>> No. 413900 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:23 pm
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>>413898

Can't they just check?

Not that I'd actually do that.
>> No. 413902 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:52 pm
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>>413900
They can, but given the insurance industry is populated mainly by cunts, rather than telling you and charging more for the policy they'd much prefer to offer you the lower price safe in the knowledge that they can pocket it and just decline any claim you make. This is because the law hasn't caught up with modern technology.
>> No. 413903 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 12:34 am
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>>413871

>I'm the only one who isn't either living hand to mouth or in about £15,000 to £20,000 of credit card or loan debt. Is this normal?

Yes. British people have experienced a massive cost-of-living squeeze over the past decade, but they're also astonishingly bad at managing their money. In 2016, the average British household spent slightly more than they earned. The average German household saved about 9% of their income, while the average Chinese household saved over 35% of their income. We're trying to defend our living standards, when we should really be tightening our belts.

https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-savings.htm

>Why spend a lifetime playing it safe, eating lentils and putting another jumper on instead of turning the heating up, never enjoying a moment of it, because that's the sensible option? One day you'll get to turn the heating on and not worry?

I used to work for the Citizens Advice Bureau. In my experience, there's an astonishingly weak correlation between your income and money worries. Being on benefits is always a struggle, but beyond that point it's really about the Micawber principle. I dealt with any number of people with significantly above-average incomes who were suicidal because of their debt problems. Some people instinctively prefer to live within their means, while others are never quite satisfied with what they've got.

There's a concept in psychology called the hedonic treadmill. Our life satisfaction is mostly fixed in the long-term, regardless of our circumstances. We tend to adjust very quickly to either adversity or good fortune.

Our standard of living has been stagnant over the last decade, but it has improved beyond all recognition over the last century. Even the people who have lived through all of those changes don't really feel any richer. Back in the 1960s, things like central heating or foreign holidays were considered a major luxury. A large proportion of working people still had an outside toilet and a tin bath. My nan is old enough to remember when people bought shoes on hire-purchase and children often just went without.

I don't want to excuse inequality - we live in a blatantly unfair society and our government are blatantly shitting on the poor - but I think we'd all live better lives if we occasionally took the time to reflect on our good fortune. The average "just about managing" family lives a life of incomprehensible luxury by any historical standard. Henry VIII would be astonished by how warm and comfortable our houses are, the bounteous range of exotic foods available in any supermarket and the miraculous entertainments in our living room. It's natural to feel hard done by when you can see people who are doing much better than you, but we shouldn't lose sight of the incredible blessings we enjoy. We live in a society where poor people are fat, which should by rights be celebrated as an incredible victory over want.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
>> No. 413905 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:03 am
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>>413903
That's a nasty case of relative privation you've got there.
>> No. 413907 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:17 am
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>>413905

You've got a nasty case of fallacy fallacy.

There's good evidence that actively practicing gratitude is good for your mental wellbeing. You can choose to do a thing that makes you happier, or you can choose to do a thing that makes you more miserable. It's none of my business either way.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1052562911430062
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16045394
>> No. 413908 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:33 am
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>>413907
>You've got a nasty case of fallacy fallacy.
I really don't, m7.
>> No. 413910 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:41 am
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>>413903

>In 2016, the average British household spent slightly more than they earned. The average German household saved about 9% of their income, while the average Chinese household saved over 35% of their income.

Britain still doesn't hold a candle to the Americans, who have traditionally, or at least since post-WWII times always lived beyond their means. Credit is the driving force of the American economy. The Americans practically invented things like zero-percent financing and consumer credit. The idea behind it being that even if you buy all your goods on tick, you're still buying goods, and that stimulates the economy. All these goods have to be produced, and those who produce them will get money for them, whether it's your money or the bank's. So what if some people eventually default on their consumer credit. For the manufacturers of consumer goods, it's swings and roundabouts. And in the greater scheme of things, as long as the economy is doing well, the demand that buying things with money that isn't yours creates is enough to hold over the entire country even if individual consumers run themselves into bankruptcy that way.

It's also one reason why the bursting of the American housing bubble was like a thermonuclear bomb going off within the finance sector. The very fragile balance of generating more growth with ever more credit was threatening to collapse. And it's the biggest vulnerability, the biggest weak spot of the entire economic system both of the U.S. and all the other capitalist market economies that depend on the American economy being in good nick.

The healthy way to buy things is of course to save money for them and pay cash so that they will belong to you entirely. But saving money from a work income takes time, not to mention that real-term incomes including all benefits have plummeted for the average person in recent decades. That is not how you get people to buy every new generation of shiny new consumer products.


> I dealt with any number of people with significantly above-average incomes who were suicidal because of their debt problems.

One of my parents' neighbours used to be a tax consultant. He was making £100K a year, in the early 90s, when that was a shitload of money even more so than today. His weakness was gambling. Not content with earning 100 grand a year, he kept running himself ever deeper into debt that way. Until he had to sell the house, his wife divorced him, and he turned to alcoholism, and then lost his job, which left him with even less of a possibility to ever pay off his debt. He died penniless about five years ago in an old people's home, barely in his mid-60s. His wife and kids refused to even speak to him until the day he died.
>> No. 413912 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:05 am
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>>413903
>We're trying to defend our living standards, when we should really be tightening our belts.
If we all do that our living standards are going to fall further, absent someone else spending more (or maybe everyone cutting spending on imported goods only.) given that your excessive spending is my wage.
>> No. 413913 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:00 am
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>>413903
>there's an astonishingly weak correlation between your income and money worries.

This is very true. I work in financial advice and it isn't uncommon to see people approaching retirement who are higher rate taxpayers, sometimes on six figure salaries, who have absolutely fuck all to show for it. They believe their income exceeds their expenditure, which they've provided you a breakdown of, but they have absolutely no idea where this surplus income goes. They have no savings or investments beyond their current account. They're often in debt. If they're fortunate they've saved enough into a pension to pay their debts off, but this isn't always the case.

For many, a higher salary simply means higher financial commitments. The main issues are that so many people in this country are financially illiterate and have never considered drawing up a financial plan; studies have found that most people will spend more time a year researching their holidays than planning their finances. I'm expecting at some point banks will create an app so that people who need their arses wiping for them will have a budget constructed especially for them which shows where they're spending all their money.

Polite sage because we've had this discussion before.
>> No. 413914 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:20 am
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>>413912

My should was more of a personal finance suggestion than a macroeconomic policy, but I'll address the point anyway.

Productivity is the primary constraint on the British economy at the moment. Our relatively low unemployment is in part symptom of a deep malaise in our economy - the output per worker just isn't increasing. Wages are being crunched because we're spreading a fairly stagnant amount of output between a greater number of workers. The weak pound should have launched us into an export boom, but that hasn't materialised. Our exports just aren't attractive enough, even at a knock-down price.

Increasing domestic consumption is at best a partial solution, because we're running a substantial trade deficit. Increased consumer spending without increased productivity will just increase our balance of payments shortfall and create inflationary pressures, digging us deeper into our hole.

Personally, I think we urgently need to address the issue of skills and investment.

Our workforce is highly educated but poorly skilled, in large part because we have a bizarre cultural aversion to vocational education. Kids that could have done an apprenticeship are instead getting mickey mouse degrees, which gives a temporary boost to the economy courtesy of the Student Loans Company at the expense of long-term productivity. Our education system is utterly disconnected from the needs of industry - educators from pre-school to tertiary consistently reject the notion that industry should have any influence over education. We're apparently happy to be served coffee by graduates in media studies and art history, whilst also suffering from chronic shortages of mechanical engineers and accountants.

We've grossly neglected the north for decades, stifling the productive economy and creating an environment of public sector dependency. Transport and communications infrastructure is in a parlous state in much of the country. This will only get worse after Brexit, because of the loss of Objective 1 funding. I'd fully endorse going on a debt binge as long as it's to fund a serious long-term investment in the productive economy rather than a short-term bribe to the electorate.
>> No. 413916 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:48 am
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>>413913

While I'm not as bad as you've described, I do sometimes wonder how I've managed to spend what I do. How do I go about creating a budget for myself? Is there a decent app for this sort of thing? I apologise if this is an insultingly stupid question.
>> No. 413917 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 8:37 am
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>>413913

Financial advisors on .gs? I'm interested to hear what other observations or advice you might have.
>> No. 413918 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:29 am
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>>413916

There's a good guide to budgeting and an online budget tool at the link below. I'd also suggest their money makeover guide (second link).

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/Budget-planning

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/money-help
>> No. 413919 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:29 am
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>>413914
I suppose I took the "should" with a slight moralising twinge, hence considering the macro element. Beyond that, I don't disagree with anything you say here. (what odd phraseology for "I agree with everything you say here.")

>The weak pound should have launched us into an export boom, but that hasn't materialised. Our exports just aren't attractive enough, even at a knock-down price.
Is part of the reason for this not that British companies responded (as British companies do) in the most short-termist way possible? I think it was claimed in a different thread a while ago that they put up prices to get higher profits (or similar), rather than thinking ahead in terms of competitiveness.

One gets the impression Britain is a basket case with a surprising talent for keeping up the appearance of success.
>> No. 413920 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:31 am
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>>413916
I'm not overly familiar with apps for budgeting, although I've heard that some of them are effectively data harvesters where you'll turn out to be the product.

Many people do it on Excel. It's really up to you how much depth you want to put into it but it's an easy way of breaking down your spending into various categories, e.g. essential and discretionary, and highlighting when you have utility contracts up for renewal or when you have a relatively large one-off annual payment like car insurance coming up.

Especially when you start it's a good idea to reconcile this against your bank statements because there may be things you've forgotten about and many people underestimate their expenditure.

It's also a good idea to come up with at least a rudimentary financial plan. Write down what your short, medium and long-term plans. Write them down in order of priority. Write down how they conflict with one another. Write down how you're prepared to compromise. Write down how you plan to achieve them.

It's best to see all of this laid out in front of you, even better if you can talk it through with someone; it's one of those areas where you probably know all this but you just need to hear it out loud to know for sure.

This is largely what financial advice is about - coming up with a financial plan with someone, developing their understanding and giving them a bit of confidence and peace of mind. If all you want to do is invest some money in an ISA or whatever then there's fuck all point in seeing an IFA because there's little value added. The funds we recommend are by and large educated guesses anyway. Some of the things clients ask us for guidance on has fuck all to do with investments and is more to do with wanting a life coach.

>>413917
I'm not an authorised financial adviser, although I am a chartered financial planner so I'm more qualified than most advisers. I'm a paraplanner, which means I do all the research and report writing.

The overwhelming majority of the industry are salesmen rather than advisers. My test for advisers is whether I'd trust them with my parents finances and I've got to say that number is definitely below half of the ones I've known well.

Ask away if there's anything you want to know.
>> No. 413921 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 10:56 am
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I was browsing the Xbox Live application on Windows and somehow it knows what games I've been playing on Steam. Not all of them, mind, but some. I can't stand this crap.
>> No. 413923 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 12:44 pm
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As has been said, once your basic needs are met, i.e. a roof over your head, food on the table, and clothes to wear, then controlling your spending really becomes about understanding that you should not live beyond your means in the long run, and realising where the point starts that you are actually living beyond them.

Whether your monthly budget is £1,500 or £10,000. Both amounts of money can be lived on. Many things are admittedly vastly easier with 10 grand a month, but it is indeed no guarantee that you will manage to live within your means. And look at the financial commitments people with high(er) incomes take on. They buy big houses on credit, expensive cars, and any number of other signifiers of personal prosperity. It is very possible that you will find yourself in a position where even your £10K a month simply will not be enough.

On a day-to-day basis, controlling your spending is often about cutting corners. For example, home cooking will save you loads compared to getting a take away every night after work. Most dishes really don't take hours in the kitchen. Likewise, look for sales and special offers when going clothes shopping. Don't replace your consumer electronics on a whim just because you fancy the latest generation of gadgets, when your devices are still working fine. Use price comparison web sites to look for deals on anything from car insurance to package holidays. Don't always order meals or expensive cocktails when you're on a night out at the pub with your mates.

And do track your spending at the end of every month and see if you are really making ends meet. If not, think of more ways to cut corners on your spending for the next month. Or just try finding a job that pays more.

It's really not rocket science.
>> No. 413924 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:15 pm
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>>413923
>For example, home cooking will save you loads compared to getting a take away every night after work

Watch out, otherlad will soon be here to admonish you and brand you Amish for doing old-fashioned and outdated things like cooking food yourself when you can have the convenience of ordering a takeaway online and having a hot meal delivered to your door.
>> No. 413925 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:14 pm
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Without wanting to sound too dismissive, a lot of this subthread reads like "poor people shouldn't have nice things".
>> No. 413926 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:24 pm
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>>413924

>when you can have the convenience of ordering a takeaway online and having a hot meal delivered to your door.

And this is why otherlad is living beyond his means.

A home cooked stir fry from Lidl, out of a frozen bag, will run you about £5 for four people. £10 if you prepare it with all fresh ingredients. Stir fry takeaway for a family of four will be somewhere in the region of £35 to £40 each time.

I'm not saying be a tight cunt. But that's one way you can save a good two hundred quid a month in the greater scheme of things.
>> No. 413927 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:39 pm
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>>413926
>A home cooked stir fry from Lidl, out of a frozen bag, will run you about £5 for four people. £10 if you prepare it with all fresh ingredients. Stir fry takeaway for a family of four will be somewhere in the region of £35 to £40 each time.
Included in that price is not faffing with the shopping, prep, cooking, washing up and cleaning, and often also free prawn crackers.
>> No. 413928 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:39 pm
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>>413925

Poor people are often trapped in poverty, so getting in debt is the only way to have nice things. I am fully aware of the privilege I have in being able to make a budget that lets me eat nice fresh food have a good PC and still have enough surplus income for impulse purchases and not be in any debt at all. I don't shop at Waitrose though, I shop at Aldi and spend a great deal of time thinking about the best way to save money so I can have the lifestyle I want. I understand that poverty makes it so that no matter what you do saving money, all you're going to do is barely get by. I dread to think what Christmas must have been like for Mum, as we were dirt poor when I was a kid and I used to give her half my Xmas money I got from relatives for gas until she told me to stop it and buy myself clothes.
>> No. 413929 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:52 pm
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>>413928
The thing that people often miss in arguing over this is the value of having nice things. It's the same thing as when people talk about a £25 phone contact as spending £600 on a phone, or our EU membership as wasting £350m a week. Usually when someone spouts that sort of thing at me I ask them why they're just giving their electricity supplier a hundred quid a month to get nothing in return and see if they twig.
>> No. 413930 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 3:34 pm
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>>413927

>Included in that price is not faffing with the shopping, prep, cooking, washing up and cleaning, and often also free prawn crackers.

Are you sure that's worth the £30 that you save by preparing the meal yourself?


>>413928

>Poor people are often trapped in poverty, so getting in debt is the only way to have nice things.

Again not saying poor people shouldn't have nice things, but at some point, you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you've only got so much money as a poor person to buy them. The temptations are many, and there are many ways even as a pauper on benefits to come by the latest 40'' TV or the latest Xbox. The problem isn't that you can't get by as a poor person. You usually can, if just barely. The British benefits system is still massively generous compared to other countries. But the problem is that poor people aspire to the status symbols of the middle classes without having the actual money to afford them. You're not a cold hearted cunt if at some point you just shrug and say, "Sorry, poor people, these kinds of things just aren't for you. You can't afford them, so don't ruin yourself financially by buying them on credit".

I have known both relative poverty and sizeable wealth in my life. I was never really poor as such, or at least not as poor as the kind of people you see on the usual Channel 5 poverty porn programmes. But in times when I just didn't have the money, I simply did not buy any of the things that you can really only afford from a certain income bracket upwards. That, too, is personal money management.
>> No. 413931 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 3:46 pm
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>>413930
>Again not saying poor people shouldn't have nice things
He says, before explaining why poor people shouldn't have nice things.
>> No. 413932 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 3:46 pm
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>>413930

>but at some point, you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you've only got so much money as a poor person to buy them.

They don't have any, so it's debt or beans. Provident make out like bandits at Christmas for this reason. It's only because you have enough money that there is some left over that the idea of living within your means is ingrained in your psyche. If you've never had money, debt isn't scary because bankruptcy is a meaningless inconvenience at most and it's worth it for the short term material gain because you have no long term future to worry about. Mandatory pension schemes aren't affected, neither is your job if you're lucky enough to have one or your council/housing association flat.

Poor people don't fear debt, as it's just a means to end for them whereas for me and you who are privileged with the notion of long term financial security it's a dangerous prospect if not planned thoroughly and contingencies made.
>> No. 413933 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:21 pm
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>>413932
>They don't have any, so it's debt or beans.

But you're not making things better for yourself by running yourself ever deeper into debt.

There are ways out of poverty and into a life of having money to make basic financial plans with. If you've got a sizeable debt to begin with though, then that goal will become even more unattainable.

Not to revert to Dickensian times, but it can be that being poor, or at least remaining poor is your fault. For not getting your arse up and trying to change things for yourself. And for not bothering to keep on top of your finances even if you are poor.
>> No. 413934 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:28 pm
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>>413933
>But you're not making things better for yourself by running yourself ever deeper into debt.
That depends entirely on what you're financing with said debt.
>> No. 413935 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:30 pm
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>>413934

>That depends entirely on what you're financing with said debt.

Well if you are financing a 40'' TV with it, then I'm sorry but I've got no sympathy.
>> No. 413936 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:32 pm
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>>413933

What part of "trapped in poverty" are you not getting, lad? This is exactly what I mean by privilege. There is a geopolitical underclass in the UK with no stake in society, it's got nothing to do with pulling your socks up; their socks are pulled up, they're just knee deep in shit. It's a redundant argument. Why would they bother their arse about debt and insolvency? It doesn't affect them.
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