[ rss / options / help ]
post ]
[ b / iq / g / zoo ] [ e / news / lab ] [ v / nom / pol / eco / emo / 101 / shed ]
[ art / A / beat / boo / com / fat / job / lit / map / mph / poof / £$€¥ / spo / uhu / uni / x / y ] [ * | sfw | o ]
logo
random

Return ] Entire Thread ] First 100 posts ] Last 50 posts ]

Posting mode: Reply
Reply ]
Subject   (reply to 413694)
Message
File  []
close
November-leaves.jpg
413694413694413694
>> No. 413694 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 5:40 pm
413694 spacer
Weekend thread? Weekend thread.
Expand all images.
>> No. 413695 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 5:57 pm
413695 spacer
>>413694
I'm using up my holidays for this year, so my weekend started yesterday.
>> No. 413696 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 6:07 pm
413696 spacer
Oh shit it's Friday already? I don't even know what day it is half the time.
>> No. 413697 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 6:12 pm
413697 spacer
>>413695
Quite a few people at work have started doing this. One has booked off every Friday for the rest of the year and another has about 15 days still to take.
>> No. 413698 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 6:26 pm
413698 spacer

hqdefaultslacking.jpg
413698413698413698
>>413697
Some of us were slaving away over a hot laptop while the rest of you slackers getting rat-arsed in Majorca.
>> No. 413699 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 7:48 pm
413699 spacer

3F64E0AB00000578-0-image-a-56_1492635502107 (1).jpg
413699413699413699
>>413698
Reminder that the "No slacking" man got married to a woman almost sixty years younger than him.
>> No. 413700 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 8:33 pm
413700 spacer
I will be raking leaves off the lawn at my parents' house tomorrow afternoon. They are kind of getting to an age where that's a bit of a do for them, so I volunteered to do it.
>> No. 413701 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 8:54 pm
413701 spacer
>>413700
Never work for free.
>> No. 413702 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 9:06 pm
413702 spacer
>>413701

Well in some respect, my parents largely worked for free when they spent 18 years raising me.

You're really an ungrateful git if you don't repay your parents now and then, a little here and a little there, when they are starting to become frail.

Just think how many shit smeared nappies they removed from you when you were a toddler. They never complained. They never asked any money from you for that.
>> No. 413703 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 10:20 pm
413703 spacer
>>413702
>Just think how many shit smeared nappies they removed from you when you were a toddler

Yeah but nobody ever asked their parents to do that, or indeed to conceive them.

Ideally, sure, people should feel a sense of duty to their parents, but some people have far from ideal parental relationships.
>> No. 413704 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 11:08 pm
413704 spacer
>>413702
I have come to realize this especially since my lad was born.
>> No. 413705 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 11:27 pm
413705 spacer
No plans, parkrun morning maybe, then get drunk, probably in London. Where do you get drunk in London when you don't have anyone to drink with? Sign up to some horribly touristy pub crawl.
>> No. 413706 Anonymous
17th November 2017
Friday 11:53 pm
413706 spacer
>>413703

>Yeah but nobody ever asked their parents to do that, or indeed to conceive them. 

It's maybe kind of a good idea to not talk that way in front of your parents. Because you are being a miserable cunt here.
>> No. 413707 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:13 am
413707 spacer
Watching the story of how Kurt Cobain offed himself, it's on Channel5+24 right now.

What a shit way to go... putting a shotgun in your mouth...
>> No. 413708 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:31 am
413708 spacer
>>413706

It's sort of true though. Obviously it's not a great thing to say apropos of nothing, but my mother has certainly pulled the "after all I've done for you" card before.

For her to argue that I owe her something because she shat me out and fed me and all the things you're supposed to do when you decide to have a child, well, that's sort of silly. It's not that I don't appreciate it, it's more that if you decide to have a child (and my parents did decide to have me), then you should never feel like you've gone above and beyond by fucking caring for it.
>> No. 413709 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:45 am
413709 spacer
>>413708

You could still just be grateful that they took their parenting duties seriously enough and made sure you would turn out right.

No, you haven't gone above the call of duty simply by providing a proper home for your child to grow up in. That's a given. But thinking of all the things that go wrong in families, I can't help feeling grateful that my parents did all that for me. That they were simply good parents to me.
>> No. 413713 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 3:15 am
413713 spacer
>>413709

>You could still just be grateful that they took their parenting duties seriously enough and made sure you would turn out right.

Not him, but given that I spent most of my late teens and early twenties bouncing between homeless hostels and psychiatric hospitals, I don't feel particularly grateful.

I was born because my mother thought that my father was going to leave her. She stopped taking the pill without telling him in an attempt to trap him. It sort of worked, for a bit, until it didn't. Mum didn't have any malice in her, but she could barely look after herself, let alone a child.

I often wonder how many people are the result of split condoms, missed pills, last-ditch efforts to save a relationship or the vague sense that having children is just what you're supposed to do. I wonder how many people would have been given up for adoption if there was no stigma attached to abandoning a baby. I wonder how many people bitterly regret having children but are too afraid to admit it, even to themselves.
>> No. 413714 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 3:23 am
413714 spacer
>>413709

I did say:

>It's not that I don't appreciate it

Very clearly, I'm thankful I was raised well. I also happen to think raising your child well should be the absolute minimum goal for choosing to have a child. So I'll never particularly respond to the cliched parental argument that is "they've done so much for you" - my response would be that at no point was it my fault I was alive.

I wouldn't expect someone to pat me on the back for keeping my car roadworthy or feeding my goldfish.
>> No. 413715 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 3:27 am
413715 spacer
>>413713

>I wonder how many people bitterly regret having children but are too afraid to admit it, even to themselves.

I suspect a great many. It's usually masked by the many clever ways our nature works, such as attachment and love and all that, but yeah, I'm pretty sure if my parents looked at me outside of that rose tinted spotlight of parental drive, they'd see me as an abject waste of their time and energy. I don't mean to sound like I'm just suffering low self esteem, I just mean they've spent inordinate amounts of time, effort and money, to produce a fairly ordinary bloke approaching his thirties. Poor investment, really.
>> No. 413716 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 12:17 pm
413716 spacer
>>413694
It's a nice picture, I do feel quite autumnal this weekend.

Might stay in and read a book.
>> No. 413717 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 1:43 pm
413717 spacer
>>413713

>Not him, but given that I spent most of my late teens and early twenties bouncing between homeless hostels and psychiatric hospitals, I don't feel particularly grateful.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Myself, I may have come from a middle-to-upper middle class upbringing with a nice house in the suburbs, but I was no stranger to family dysfunction growing up. My dad had an affair when I was at the vulnerable age of nine, and then when my dad's girlfriend threatened to tell everything to my mum if he wasn't going to leave us of his own accord, my dad actually went and killed himself. My mum then spent years in therapy and developed a bipolar disorder, she started drinking - briefly - , and my brother and I pretty much had to take care of a mentally ill remaining parent while we were still just teenagers.

So you see, it'd be easy for me to be bitter about my parents screwing up. And yet, I can't say I feel bitter about my life. Or my parents. It is what it is. And it's never good to keep up that anger inside you all your life. Make your peace with what has happened to you. Because that anger will eat away at all the positivity that you might manage to draw from other areas in your life.

Also, that whole "I didn't ask to be born" what-have-you, well, that's fine if you're a pimply 14-year-old who's going through his phase of puberty angst. But as an adult, that's a dark place to be. Be thankful that you are here, in spite of all the odds.
>> No. 413718 Anonymous
18th November 2017
Saturday 2:36 pm
413718 spacer
>>413716
Go on, get wrapped up in a blanket and have a nice warm mug of cocoa.
>> No. 413731 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 2:57 pm
413731 spacer
I did three drops of acid last night, then was pretty much drinking and smoking constantly, then had a shit load of week. This did not end well. But then I woke up this morning it has snowed and is still snowing, so it's very nice and Christmasy.
>> No. 413732 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 3:28 pm
413732 spacer
>>413718
Went out for a marvellous dinner with wife and then have spent the rest of the weekend doing just that. Only with tea. Middle age is great.
>> No. 413733 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 7:37 pm
413733 spacer
Chopped up a load of trees we felled in May, Burned all the crapwood in a massive bonfire, bagged the logs for the winter. Just about to settle down with a book & dog in front of the fire, burning some of today's booty.
Chainsaw's fucked, though, feels like it's running lean, won't rev.
>> No. 413736 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 11:43 pm
413736 spacer

H430-0160.png
413736413736413736
>>413733
If you're going to live like it's the 1800s instead of using a more clean & efficient source of heating, then why not go all the way and use one of these?
>> No. 413737 Anonymous
19th November 2017
Sunday 11:50 pm
413737 spacer
>>413736

>use one of these

I'm set.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xaIKM-GYV4
>> No. 413738 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 12:48 am
413738 spacer
>>413713

> I often wonder how many people are the result of split condoms, missed pills, last-ditch efforts to save a relationship or the vague sense that having children is just what you're supposed to do.

That pretty much sums up all the reasons why people have kids, especially the last one.
>> No. 413739 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 1:22 am
413739 spacer
>>413738

That sounds a bit too grim.

My parents always wanted kids.

Or so we were told.
>> No. 413740 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 2:03 am
413740 spacer
>>413739

It's a biological imperative and inevitable, barring any complications, if you're having unprotected sex. Which, by the way, your Mum and Dad totally did. Probably more than once. Maybe even while you were in utero.
>> No. 413741 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 2:11 am
413741 spacer
>>413739

My parents wanted kids too, but I don't think you have to drill down too far to realise the 'why' is little more than 'because that's what you're supposed to do'.
>> No. 413742 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 3:05 am
413742 spacer
>>413740

At some point, your da has probably begged your ma to let him shag her up the arse. He might have succeeded.
>> No. 413743 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 9:26 am
413743 spacer
>>413742
Ma says that's why my little brother Rahid is a different colour.
>> No. 413744 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 10:43 am
413744 spacer
>>413736
Got several of those, thanks. And bigger, and loppers, and saws.
We do have bottled gas out here in the arse end of nowhere - but I do like a fire. Wouldn't want to rely on it, but it's good for the soul. I do ache like a bastard today, though.
Also - the trees had to go. Stupid trees in a stupid place. Might as well burn them, rather than paying to get rid.
>> No. 413750 Anonymous
20th November 2017
Monday 11:49 pm
413750 spacer
>>413741

https://www.elitedaily.com/life/why-science-says-having-kids-may-be-a-bad-idea

>Why Science Says Having Kids May Be A Bad Idea
>> No. 413755 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 8:43 am
413755 spacer
>>413750
What a shitty article.
>> No. 413756 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 10:44 am
413756 spacer
>>413755

There is so much wrong with that article I question if Tatiana Baez is a real person they are either some sort of algorithm, a team of Chinese MMORPG farmers who decided to diversity their business model or the equivalent of Alan Smithee. Regardless of the method, I would be surprised if that article took longer to write than it took me to read.
>> No. 413757 Anonymous
21st November 2017
Tuesday 11:58 am
413757 spacer
>>413756

It's the ugly side of content curation. Where news and e-zine sites no longer provide actual news and well-researched information, but just farm clickbait that was written by authors who barely deserve to be called such. It's roughly the same as teaser links like "This man learned ten languages in a week. Read how".
>> No. 413781 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 12:44 am
413781 spacer
>>413757

Like I need to bother. Adderall and meth!
>> No. 413782 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 12:51 am
413782 spacer
>>413781
> Adderall and meth!

Redundancy is worse than procrastination.
>> No. 413784 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 2:58 am
413784 spacer
>>413757

I like the DM Online ones that are just a collection of pictures the junior serfs saw on their Twitter feeds.
>> No. 413785 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 12:47 pm
413785 spacer
>>413784

>a collection of pictures the junior serfs saw on their Twitter feeds.

A friend in America told me that that's the way much of local television news in the U.S. works now. You've got three or four people in the newsroom scanning Twitter for everything weird and wonderful from around the area, and then that's sold to the viewing public as news.
>> No. 413787 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 2:30 pm
413787 spacer
A ****** just stole my bike, propped up against KFC no less.

That'll teach me not to leave the next one unlocked I guess. Can't really be arsed reporting it for the good that'll do.
>> No. 413790 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 5:06 pm
413790 spacer
I just thought I'd let you lads know that Pokemon has made 45 billion USD in retail sales alone since 1996.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_highest-grossing_media_franchises
>> No. 413792 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 5:53 pm
413792 spacer
>>413787
>That'll teach me not to leave the next one unlocked I guess.

Oh lad. I feel your pain, having had bikes nicked like this, but.
>> No. 413796 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 6:56 pm
413796 spacer
>>413787
I reported mine stolen and had it returned to me by the police a month later.
>> No. 413801 Anonymous
22nd November 2017
Wednesday 8:35 pm
413801 spacer
Sage advice from the incomparable Derek Griffiths:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UrX5XqWH4g
>> No. 413814 Anonymous
23rd November 2017
Thursday 11:12 am
413814 spacer
My mums bike wheel got stolen the other day. Just the wheel. It's not even a good wheel.
>> No. 413828 Anonymous
23rd November 2017
Thursday 9:10 pm
413828 spacer
>>413814

Broken Britain.
>> No. 413833 Anonymous
23rd November 2017
Thursday 11:59 pm
413833 spacer
>>413828

Nah, just a broken bike.
>> No. 413835 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 12:28 am
413835 spacer
>>413694

I plan on making the most of the zeal for deals tomorrow and bagging myself a new router as the one I have has been LITERALLY ruining my life for the past 6 months.

I'm going to go see that Poirot film to see who pissed in Daisy Ridley's arse.
>> No. 413838 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 1:05 am
413838 spacer
>>413835
>who pissed in Daisy Ridley's arse.
Presumably the answer is everyone, because who wouldn't?
>> No. 413840 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 9:13 am
413840 spacer
And once again I wish I was dead.
>> No. 413842 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 1:09 pm
413842 spacer
My car is in the shop. It needs all new brake discs and pads in the front. They also strongly recommended changing the brake fluid, as their brake fluid testing device showed three red lights. They also told me on the phone that my wishbones will need changing soon. It's the bushes that are worn out, but they told me it's cheaper to mount all new wishbones than the amount of time it would take to just change the bushes.

The brakes alone are going to cost over 300 quid. Just what I need right before Christmas.
>> No. 413847 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 4:52 pm
413847 spacer
>>413842
I think they saw you coming.
>> No. 413857 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:18 pm
413857 spacer
>>413842
Are they by any chance brake and/or suspension specialists?
>> No. 413858 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:26 pm
413858 spacer
>>413842
>wishbones will need changing soon. It's the bushes that are worn out
Thought this was a "tin of tartan paint and a long weight" type thing until I googled and learned those are actual car parts.

Don't know what to believe anymore.
>> No. 413859 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:38 pm
413859 spacer
>>413847

Seems like fairly reasonable standard maintenance to me.

I think people distrust garages a lot but I've not really found a dodgy independent one yet. Halfords and Kwik Fit etc. are far, far more likely to rinse you, from what I hear.

In my own personal experience, since I work on my cars myself, whenever I take one in for work done/MOT prep I already know what it needs. I never tell them I know what I'm on about, just to see. But I've never once had anyone tell me I needed some part or other that I didn't actually need.

It must be shite to have them tell you that it needs x,y, and z and have no choice but to believe them, though.
>> No. 413861 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 6:59 pm
413861 spacer
Just got my car took off me by the rozzers, for driving without insurance.

My own stupid fault, as it turns out the insurance I thought I was paying had failed to come out of my account (that I rarely check as I don't have online banking with it) and I had given the insurers my old offices as the mailing and phone address, so I failed to receive any of their correspondence about it.

Not only that but I was halfway through moving house, so not only have I been driving around in a 30 grand Range Rover completely uninsured for three weeks, like a total fucking prick, it's now sat in a police yard full to the brim with most of the contents of my flat.

I feel like a right knob, and I'll feel even worse once I get the SIX mandatory penalty points. My first ever in ten years of driving. Funny thing is too, it's going to cost me more to insure the thing to get it out of the impound than the actual fine I'll get.

Lesson would be to either pay the full year's premium up front or...just be more observant I suppose. Fucking hell. All I can say is I'm lucky I didn't end up in an accident.
>> No. 413862 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:06 pm
413862 spacer
>>413861

Not an expert, but that might be worth chasing up with a solicitor.
>> No. 413863 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:19 pm
413863 spacer
>>413862

No you aren't which is why I presume you would talk to a solicitor in the first place. What you seem to be suggesting though is that you need an expert in tell people to see experts.
>> No. 413865 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:23 pm
413865 spacer
>>413862

From what I can tell, there's not much wiggle room in these cases. I was indisputably driving without insurance, whether I was aware or not may not be relevant.

I have a solicitor for work stuff so I'll run it by him, but ultimately although I can certainly prove I didn't know it had ran out, the reason I didn't was because I hadn't updated my contact details with the insurer. So I reckon I'm stuck with it.

Who has points here? How much harder is it to get insured after six points?
>> No. 413870 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:42 pm
413870 spacer
>>413865
I got done for driving without insurance in very similar circumstances - it is an absolute offence, you can't really plead not guilty.

What you can do is plead guilty, write a letter of mitigation, accepting responsibility, and describing what happened. I had a similar situation to you, did all this, and had the case dismissed. There are no loopholes, but if you're honest and there are extenuating circumstances, that you didn't do this wilfully, knowingly or recklessly, you might get lucky.
>> No. 413871 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 7:46 pm
413871 spacer
I was talking with my mates today and it turns out I'm the only one who isn't either living hand to mouth or in about £15,000 to £20,000 of credit card or loan debt. Is this normal?

>>413859
> I think people distrust garages a lot but I've not really found a dodgy independent one yet.

I've used six garages in my lifetime to date. Five were completely trustworthy but the other was far from it. They didn't even put everything back together properly, causing a leak, and tried insisting on cash in hand so they could evade tax. Last I'd heard they'd opened up as a new company on the same site with the exact same people.
>> No. 413873 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:17 pm
413873 spacer
>>413871
'Is this normal' is a meaningless question. Normal for whom? Your class, your area, your age group?

I have tens of thousands of student loan debt but I'm presuming that's not what you mean.
>> No. 413875 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:25 pm
413875 spacer
>>413871

I'd say both are fairly common with people in their twenties at the moment. Credit card debt is very easy to sink in to, and wages aren't exactly at an all time high, with plenty of people stuck at NWM or close enough to it, or just simply unable to find a full time job at all.
>> No. 413878 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:49 pm
413878 spacer
>>413873
I'd say we're probably all lower middle class, early thirties and graduates.

I think they're all below the national average income, but a lot of it goes down to profligacy and poor life choices. Perhaps it's just me but if I owed £18,000 on credit cards I wouldn't travel to New York to watch the Thanksgiving parade and to go shopping. I believe I'm the only one with things like a pension.
>> No. 413879 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 8:55 pm
413879 spacer
>>413878

>Perhaps it's just me but if I owed £18,000 on credit cards I wouldn't travel to New York to watch the Thanksgiving parade and to go shopping.

That's fair, neither would I. Though, I've never been in that much debt, I bet actually once you reach a number that feels to you like you'll never pay it off anyway, you might be inclined to not give a shit anymore. Not particularly responsible but I could understand the psychology behind it.
>> No. 413898 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:14 pm
413898 spacer
>>413865

Just don't declare them and avoid crashing your car till they expire.
>> No. 413899 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:19 pm
413899 spacer
>>413879

As what I would call working class (despite having had the education and introspection to be painfully aware that I shouldn't be), I can say for certain that there's a certain numbness that goes with being poor, and socialising almost entirely amongst people who are equally poor.

I've got about £8,000 hanging over me because of incredibly daft things I did when I was younger, reckless, and mentally unstable. The prospect of saving for a deposit on a house seems so far off as to be unattainable (I do have a plan, it just feels out of reach), even in the "cheap" areas up here. Thinking about and planning for the longer term future, despite how fast it is creeping up on me, is so stressful as to be almost painful, especially when you hear about the state of what we're heading towards every day in the news.

So yeah, you take out another credit card and treat yourself to a couple of weeks away because at the end of the day, you learn your place in society. You know you're one of those folk who are going to make do with what they've got, you're never going to have the luxury some people afford. Why spend a lifetime playing it safe, eating lentils and putting another jumper on instead of turning the heating up, never enjoying a moment of it, because that's the sensible option? One day you'll get to turn the heating on and not worry?

Fuck all that, just get another loan out and fuck off to Greece for a fortnight, at least you'll have fun with your brief time on this planet.
>> No. 413900 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:23 pm
413900 spacer
>>413898

Can't they just check?

Not that I'd actually do that.
>> No. 413902 Anonymous
24th November 2017
Friday 11:52 pm
413902 spacer
>>413900
They can, but given the insurance industry is populated mainly by cunts, rather than telling you and charging more for the policy they'd much prefer to offer you the lower price safe in the knowledge that they can pocket it and just decline any claim you make. This is because the law hasn't caught up with modern technology.
>> No. 413903 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 12:34 am
413903 spacer
>>413871

>I'm the only one who isn't either living hand to mouth or in about £15,000 to £20,000 of credit card or loan debt. Is this normal?

Yes. British people have experienced a massive cost-of-living squeeze over the past decade, but they're also astonishingly bad at managing their money. In 2016, the average British household spent slightly more than they earned. The average German household saved about 9% of their income, while the average Chinese household saved over 35% of their income. We're trying to defend our living standards, when we should really be tightening our belts.

https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-savings.htm

>Why spend a lifetime playing it safe, eating lentils and putting another jumper on instead of turning the heating up, never enjoying a moment of it, because that's the sensible option? One day you'll get to turn the heating on and not worry?

I used to work for the Citizens Advice Bureau. In my experience, there's an astonishingly weak correlation between your income and money worries. Being on benefits is always a struggle, but beyond that point it's really about the Micawber principle. I dealt with any number of people with significantly above-average incomes who were suicidal because of their debt problems. Some people instinctively prefer to live within their means, while others are never quite satisfied with what they've got.

There's a concept in psychology called the hedonic treadmill. Our life satisfaction is mostly fixed in the long-term, regardless of our circumstances. We tend to adjust very quickly to either adversity or good fortune.

Our standard of living has been stagnant over the last decade, but it has improved beyond all recognition over the last century. Even the people who have lived through all of those changes don't really feel any richer. Back in the 1960s, things like central heating or foreign holidays were considered a major luxury. A large proportion of working people still had an outside toilet and a tin bath. My nan is old enough to remember when people bought shoes on hire-purchase and children often just went without.

I don't want to excuse inequality - we live in a blatantly unfair society and our government are blatantly shitting on the poor - but I think we'd all live better lives if we occasionally took the time to reflect on our good fortune. The average "just about managing" family lives a life of incomprehensible luxury by any historical standard. Henry VIII would be astonished by how warm and comfortable our houses are, the bounteous range of exotic foods available in any supermarket and the miraculous entertainments in our living room. It's natural to feel hard done by when you can see people who are doing much better than you, but we shouldn't lose sight of the incredible blessings we enjoy. We live in a society where poor people are fat, which should by rights be celebrated as an incredible victory over want.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
>> No. 413905 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:03 am
413905 spacer
>>413903
That's a nasty case of relative privation you've got there.
>> No. 413907 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:17 am
413907 spacer
>>413905

You've got a nasty case of fallacy fallacy.

There's good evidence that actively practicing gratitude is good for your mental wellbeing. You can choose to do a thing that makes you happier, or you can choose to do a thing that makes you more miserable. It's none of my business either way.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1052562911430062
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16045394
>> No. 413908 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:33 am
413908 spacer
>>413907
>You've got a nasty case of fallacy fallacy.
I really don't, m7.
>> No. 413910 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:41 am
413910 spacer
>>413903

>In 2016, the average British household spent slightly more than they earned. The average German household saved about 9% of their income, while the average Chinese household saved over 35% of their income.

Britain still doesn't hold a candle to the Americans, who have traditionally, or at least since post-WWII times always lived beyond their means. Credit is the driving force of the American economy. The Americans practically invented things like zero-percent financing and consumer credit. The idea behind it being that even if you buy all your goods on tick, you're still buying goods, and that stimulates the economy. All these goods have to be produced, and those who produce them will get money for them, whether it's your money or the bank's. So what if some people eventually default on their consumer credit. For the manufacturers of consumer goods, it's swings and roundabouts. And in the greater scheme of things, as long as the economy is doing well, the demand that buying things with money that isn't yours creates is enough to hold over the entire country even if individual consumers run themselves into bankruptcy that way.

It's also one reason why the bursting of the American housing bubble was like a thermonuclear bomb going off within the finance sector. The very fragile balance of generating more growth with ever more credit was threatening to collapse. And it's the biggest vulnerability, the biggest weak spot of the entire economic system both of the U.S. and all the other capitalist market economies that depend on the American economy being in good nick.

The healthy way to buy things is of course to save money for them and pay cash so that they will belong to you entirely. But saving money from a work income takes time, not to mention that real-term incomes including all benefits have plummeted for the average person in recent decades. That is not how you get people to buy every new generation of shiny new consumer products.


> I dealt with any number of people with significantly above-average incomes who were suicidal because of their debt problems.

One of my parents' neighbours used to be a tax consultant. He was making £100K a year, in the early 90s, when that was a shitload of money even more so than today. His weakness was gambling. Not content with earning 100 grand a year, he kept running himself ever deeper into debt that way. Until he had to sell the house, his wife divorced him, and he turned to alcoholism, and then lost his job, which left him with even less of a possibility to ever pay off his debt. He died penniless about five years ago in an old people's home, barely in his mid-60s. His wife and kids refused to even speak to him until the day he died.
>> No. 413912 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:05 am
413912 spacer
>>413903
>We're trying to defend our living standards, when we should really be tightening our belts.
If we all do that our living standards are going to fall further, absent someone else spending more (or maybe everyone cutting spending on imported goods only.) given that your excessive spending is my wage.
>> No. 413913 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:00 am
413913 spacer
>>413903
>there's an astonishingly weak correlation between your income and money worries.

This is very true. I work in financial advice and it isn't uncommon to see people approaching retirement who are higher rate taxpayers, sometimes on six figure salaries, who have absolutely fuck all to show for it. They believe their income exceeds their expenditure, which they've provided you a breakdown of, but they have absolutely no idea where this surplus income goes. They have no savings or investments beyond their current account. They're often in debt. If they're fortunate they've saved enough into a pension to pay their debts off, but this isn't always the case.

For many, a higher salary simply means higher financial commitments. The main issues are that so many people in this country are financially illiterate and have never considered drawing up a financial plan; studies have found that most people will spend more time a year researching their holidays than planning their finances. I'm expecting at some point banks will create an app so that people who need their arses wiping for them will have a budget constructed especially for them which shows where they're spending all their money.

Polite sage because we've had this discussion before.
>> No. 413914 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:20 am
413914 spacer
>>413912

My should was more of a personal finance suggestion than a macroeconomic policy, but I'll address the point anyway.

Productivity is the primary constraint on the British economy at the moment. Our relatively low unemployment is in part symptom of a deep malaise in our economy - the output per worker just isn't increasing. Wages are being crunched because we're spreading a fairly stagnant amount of output between a greater number of workers. The weak pound should have launched us into an export boom, but that hasn't materialised. Our exports just aren't attractive enough, even at a knock-down price.

Increasing domestic consumption is at best a partial solution, because we're running a substantial trade deficit. Increased consumer spending without increased productivity will just increase our balance of payments shortfall and create inflationary pressures, digging us deeper into our hole.

Personally, I think we urgently need to address the issue of skills and investment.

Our workforce is highly educated but poorly skilled, in large part because we have a bizarre cultural aversion to vocational education. Kids that could have done an apprenticeship are instead getting mickey mouse degrees, which gives a temporary boost to the economy courtesy of the Student Loans Company at the expense of long-term productivity. Our education system is utterly disconnected from the needs of industry - educators from pre-school to tertiary consistently reject the notion that industry should have any influence over education. We're apparently happy to be served coffee by graduates in media studies and art history, whilst also suffering from chronic shortages of mechanical engineers and accountants.

We've grossly neglected the north for decades, stifling the productive economy and creating an environment of public sector dependency. Transport and communications infrastructure is in a parlous state in much of the country. This will only get worse after Brexit, because of the loss of Objective 1 funding. I'd fully endorse going on a debt binge as long as it's to fund a serious long-term investment in the productive economy rather than a short-term bribe to the electorate.
>> No. 413916 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:48 am
413916 spacer
>>413913

While I'm not as bad as you've described, I do sometimes wonder how I've managed to spend what I do. How do I go about creating a budget for myself? Is there a decent app for this sort of thing? I apologise if this is an insultingly stupid question.
>> No. 413917 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 8:37 am
413917 spacer
>>413913

Financial advisors on .gs? I'm interested to hear what other observations or advice you might have.
>> No. 413918 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:29 am
413918 spacer
>>413916

There's a good guide to budgeting and an online budget tool at the link below. I'd also suggest their money makeover guide (second link).

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/Budget-planning

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/money-help
>> No. 413919 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:29 am
413919 spacer
>>413914
I suppose I took the "should" with a slight moralising twinge, hence considering the macro element. Beyond that, I don't disagree with anything you say here. (what odd phraseology for "I agree with everything you say here.")

>The weak pound should have launched us into an export boom, but that hasn't materialised. Our exports just aren't attractive enough, even at a knock-down price.
Is part of the reason for this not that British companies responded (as British companies do) in the most short-termist way possible? I think it was claimed in a different thread a while ago that they put up prices to get higher profits (or similar), rather than thinking ahead in terms of competitiveness.

One gets the impression Britain is a basket case with a surprising talent for keeping up the appearance of success.
>> No. 413920 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:31 am
413920 spacer
>>413916
I'm not overly familiar with apps for budgeting, although I've heard that some of them are effectively data harvesters where you'll turn out to be the product.

Many people do it on Excel. It's really up to you how much depth you want to put into it but it's an easy way of breaking down your spending into various categories, e.g. essential and discretionary, and highlighting when you have utility contracts up for renewal or when you have a relatively large one-off annual payment like car insurance coming up.

Especially when you start it's a good idea to reconcile this against your bank statements because there may be things you've forgotten about and many people underestimate their expenditure.

It's also a good idea to come up with at least a rudimentary financial plan. Write down what your short, medium and long-term plans. Write them down in order of priority. Write down how they conflict with one another. Write down how you're prepared to compromise. Write down how you plan to achieve them.

It's best to see all of this laid out in front of you, even better if you can talk it through with someone; it's one of those areas where you probably know all this but you just need to hear it out loud to know for sure.

This is largely what financial advice is about - coming up with a financial plan with someone, developing their understanding and giving them a bit of confidence and peace of mind. If all you want to do is invest some money in an ISA or whatever then there's fuck all point in seeing an IFA because there's little value added. The funds we recommend are by and large educated guesses anyway. Some of the things clients ask us for guidance on has fuck all to do with investments and is more to do with wanting a life coach.

>>413917
I'm not an authorised financial adviser, although I am a chartered financial planner so I'm more qualified than most advisers. I'm a paraplanner, which means I do all the research and report writing.

The overwhelming majority of the industry are salesmen rather than advisers. My test for advisers is whether I'd trust them with my parents finances and I've got to say that number is definitely below half of the ones I've known well.

Ask away if there's anything you want to know.
>> No. 413921 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 10:56 am
413921 spacer
I was browsing the Xbox Live application on Windows and somehow it knows what games I've been playing on Steam. Not all of them, mind, but some. I can't stand this crap.
>> No. 413923 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 12:44 pm
413923 spacer
As has been said, once your basic needs are met, i.e. a roof over your head, food on the table, and clothes to wear, then controlling your spending really becomes about understanding that you should not live beyond your means in the long run, and realising where the point starts that you are actually living beyond them.

Whether your monthly budget is £1,500 or £10,000. Both amounts of money can be lived on. Many things are admittedly vastly easier with 10 grand a month, but it is indeed no guarantee that you will manage to live within your means. And look at the financial commitments people with high(er) incomes take on. They buy big houses on credit, expensive cars, and any number of other signifiers of personal prosperity. It is very possible that you will find yourself in a position where even your £10K a month simply will not be enough.

On a day-to-day basis, controlling your spending is often about cutting corners. For example, home cooking will save you loads compared to getting a take away every night after work. Most dishes really don't take hours in the kitchen. Likewise, look for sales and special offers when going clothes shopping. Don't replace your consumer electronics on a whim just because you fancy the latest generation of gadgets, when your devices are still working fine. Use price comparison web sites to look for deals on anything from car insurance to package holidays. Don't always order meals or expensive cocktails when you're on a night out at the pub with your mates.

And do track your spending at the end of every month and see if you are really making ends meet. If not, think of more ways to cut corners on your spending for the next month. Or just try finding a job that pays more.

It's really not rocket science.
>> No. 413924 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 1:15 pm
413924 spacer
>>413923
>For example, home cooking will save you loads compared to getting a take away every night after work

Watch out, otherlad will soon be here to admonish you and brand you Amish for doing old-fashioned and outdated things like cooking food yourself when you can have the convenience of ordering a takeaway online and having a hot meal delivered to your door.
>> No. 413925 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:14 pm
413925 spacer
Without wanting to sound too dismissive, a lot of this subthread reads like "poor people shouldn't have nice things".
>> No. 413926 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:24 pm
413926 spacer
>>413924

>when you can have the convenience of ordering a takeaway online and having a hot meal delivered to your door.

And this is why otherlad is living beyond his means.

A home cooked stir fry from Lidl, out of a frozen bag, will run you about £5 for four people. £10 if you prepare it with all fresh ingredients. Stir fry takeaway for a family of four will be somewhere in the region of £35 to £40 each time.

I'm not saying be a tight cunt. But that's one way you can save a good two hundred quid a month in the greater scheme of things.
>> No. 413927 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:39 pm
413927 spacer
>>413926
>A home cooked stir fry from Lidl, out of a frozen bag, will run you about £5 for four people. £10 if you prepare it with all fresh ingredients. Stir fry takeaway for a family of four will be somewhere in the region of £35 to £40 each time.
Included in that price is not faffing with the shopping, prep, cooking, washing up and cleaning, and often also free prawn crackers.
>> No. 413928 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:39 pm
413928 spacer
>>413925

Poor people are often trapped in poverty, so getting in debt is the only way to have nice things. I am fully aware of the privilege I have in being able to make a budget that lets me eat nice fresh food have a good PC and still have enough surplus income for impulse purchases and not be in any debt at all. I don't shop at Waitrose though, I shop at Aldi and spend a great deal of time thinking about the best way to save money so I can have the lifestyle I want. I understand that poverty makes it so that no matter what you do saving money, all you're going to do is barely get by. I dread to think what Christmas must have been like for Mum, as we were dirt poor when I was a kid and I used to give her half my Xmas money I got from relatives for gas until she told me to stop it and buy myself clothes.
>> No. 413929 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 2:52 pm
413929 spacer
>>413928
The thing that people often miss in arguing over this is the value of having nice things. It's the same thing as when people talk about a £25 phone contact as spending £600 on a phone, or our EU membership as wasting £350m a week. Usually when someone spouts that sort of thing at me I ask them why they're just giving their electricity supplier a hundred quid a month to get nothing in return and see if they twig.
>> No. 413930 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 3:34 pm
413930 spacer
>>413927

>Included in that price is not faffing with the shopping, prep, cooking, washing up and cleaning, and often also free prawn crackers.

Are you sure that's worth the £30 that you save by preparing the meal yourself?


>>413928

>Poor people are often trapped in poverty, so getting in debt is the only way to have nice things.

Again not saying poor people shouldn't have nice things, but at some point, you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you've only got so much money as a poor person to buy them. The temptations are many, and there are many ways even as a pauper on benefits to come by the latest 40'' TV or the latest Xbox. The problem isn't that you can't get by as a poor person. You usually can, if just barely. The British benefits system is still massively generous compared to other countries. But the problem is that poor people aspire to the status symbols of the middle classes without having the actual money to afford them. You're not a cold hearted cunt if at some point you just shrug and say, "Sorry, poor people, these kinds of things just aren't for you. You can't afford them, so don't ruin yourself financially by buying them on credit".

I have known both relative poverty and sizeable wealth in my life. I was never really poor as such, or at least not as poor as the kind of people you see on the usual Channel 5 poverty porn programmes. But in times when I just didn't have the money, I simply did not buy any of the things that you can really only afford from a certain income bracket upwards. That, too, is personal money management.
>> No. 413931 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 3:46 pm
413931 spacer
>>413930
>Again not saying poor people shouldn't have nice things
He says, before explaining why poor people shouldn't have nice things.
>> No. 413932 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 3:46 pm
413932 spacer
>>413930

>but at some point, you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you've only got so much money as a poor person to buy them.

They don't have any, so it's debt or beans. Provident make out like bandits at Christmas for this reason. It's only because you have enough money that there is some left over that the idea of living within your means is ingrained in your psyche. If you've never had money, debt isn't scary because bankruptcy is a meaningless inconvenience at most and it's worth it for the short term material gain because you have no long term future to worry about. Mandatory pension schemes aren't affected, neither is your job if you're lucky enough to have one or your council/housing association flat.

Poor people don't fear debt, as it's just a means to end for them whereas for me and you who are privileged with the notion of long term financial security it's a dangerous prospect if not planned thoroughly and contingencies made.
>> No. 413933 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:21 pm
413933 spacer
>>413932
>They don't have any, so it's debt or beans.

But you're not making things better for yourself by running yourself ever deeper into debt.

There are ways out of poverty and into a life of having money to make basic financial plans with. If you've got a sizeable debt to begin with though, then that goal will become even more unattainable.

Not to revert to Dickensian times, but it can be that being poor, or at least remaining poor is your fault. For not getting your arse up and trying to change things for yourself. And for not bothering to keep on top of your finances even if you are poor.
>> No. 413934 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:28 pm
413934 spacer
>>413933
>But you're not making things better for yourself by running yourself ever deeper into debt.
That depends entirely on what you're financing with said debt.
>> No. 413935 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:30 pm
413935 spacer
>>413934

>That depends entirely on what you're financing with said debt.

Well if you are financing a 40'' TV with it, then I'm sorry but I've got no sympathy.
>> No. 413936 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:32 pm
413936 spacer
>>413933

What part of "trapped in poverty" are you not getting, lad? This is exactly what I mean by privilege. There is a geopolitical underclass in the UK with no stake in society, it's got nothing to do with pulling your socks up; their socks are pulled up, they're just knee deep in shit. It's a redundant argument. Why would they bother their arse about debt and insolvency? It doesn't affect them.
>> No. 413937 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:37 pm
413937 spacer
>>413935
I don't know about that, m7. My current TV is smaller, and I don't have one in the bedroom, so a 40" TV would certainly make things better for me.
>> No. 413938 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 4:53 pm
413938 spacer
>>413936
>There is a geopolitical underclass in the UK with no stake in society, it's got nothing to do with pulling your socks up; their socks are pulled up, they're just knee deep in shit.

I think a lot of it is to do with mentality.

Why do Indian and Chinese kids do so well at school? Because their parents tell them they can achieve and make a success of their lives. They haven't subscribed to the British class system.

Why do white working class and black kids so shite at school? Because they're ingrained to have a massive chip on their shoulder. They're told not to get ideas above their station. They're raised to know their place. A lot of it is self imposed barriers.
>> No. 413939 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 5:23 pm
413939 spacer
>>413938

>Because they're ingrained to have a massive chip on their shoulder.

Source? That certainly wasn't my experience. I remember pretty distinctly being told to get out of the town I lived in as I'd rot there and people would drag me down by my parents, and most of my friends were the same. The ones who stayed behind were the ones who didn't get good grades and ended up dragged down, either drug addicts or teenage parents. Many of them have since turned their lives around and are happy in gainful employment, but they are lucky enough to live somewhere that someone up high deemed worthy of investment so the majority of people gained employment opportunities and the social mobility wheels were greased. Before the area received investment, it was a crab pot. If you don't know what I mean by that, I'll let Terry Pratchett's take on the phenomenon guide your enquiring mind.

There are huge numbers of people who live in areas that don't receive investment and don't have any employment opportunities and/or are too thick to go to college or University. It's a complex Geopolitical issue that Labour was only just starting to address near the end of their last Govt and that the Tories have flip flopped between pretending it doesn't exist and spending an inordinate amount of time trying to prove it is a myth. It's not a myth and the crab pot is real. Investment is what is needed, not the current dilution of the workforce which is currently happening with relative productivity falling across all sectors.

Sage for /pol/shit in the weekend thread.
>> No. 413940 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 5:33 pm
413940 spacer
>>413936

I'm replying as the poster of >>413903.

High levels of debt are terrible for your wellbeing, whether you're rich, poor or somewhere in between. I've seen it literally thousands of times. The only time people ever cried in my office was because of recent bereavement or serious debt. Being poor is shit, but it's vastly worse if you're stuck in a perpetual cycle of debt. Research indicates that having high levels of debt roughly doubles your chance of suffering from mental health problems, even when factoring in household income. The stress of debt has serious knock-on effects on your physical health too.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-0297.2012.02519.x/full

Debt is a vicious cycle. The more you borrow, the more of your income goes towards servicing that debt, so the less money you have to live on. If you're not careful, buying a few luxuries on HP can turn into a trap of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

You can end up in this trap even if you're not very poor and you can avoid it even if you're on benefits. It's harder to live within your means if you're on a very low income, but it's far from impossible.

Consider the recent media attention on Brighthouse. The CAB were warning about this bunch of shysters a decade ago, but nobody outside of the advice sector really paid much attention. If you're on a low income and you're not great at maths, the prospect of getting a new telly or a sofa for £4 a week is very attractive. The problem is that they charge 99.9% APR, so you'll pay nearly double the actual cost for your goods. You're overburdened with debt repayments, you stick an unexpected bill on your credit card and now you're just circling the drain. If they had come to see me before getting into debt, I could have advised them on budgeting, saving and cheaper sources of credit. I could have referred them to the social fund (back when that still existed) or the local credit union. I could have worked out a detailed and realistic plan for how they could get through Christmas without getting buried under a pile of debt. Unfortunately, people only came to see me when they were at crisis point and couldn't keep up with their repayments.

A lack of income is part of poverty, but only one part. A complex set of interconnecting factors keep people trapped in poverty, with poor personal finance skills and a nihilistic attitude about the future being crucial. Some people are fairly justified in believing that they might be trapped in poverty forever, but many are just falling into a self-fulfilling prophecy. I understand why people might give up hope, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating when you're working with someone who just won't try anything that might improve their lives.

>>413938 makes his point slightly bluntly, but it's an important point. There was a profound difference between the attitudes of the locals and immigrants I worked with. Almost to a man, the immigrants were frugal and mostly in control of their own lives. There's a bit of a joke in the CAB about the carrier bag of doom - you know you're in for a long day when you call someone through from the waiting room and they've got a bulging carrier bag full of unopened final demands. I never once saw a brown hand holding a carrier bag of doom. I often spoke to immigrants who were worried because they'd missed one payment on their bills, which basically never happened with the locals. When we were divvying up the list of appointments, we always fought over anyone with a Z in their name, because they were never any trouble.
>> No. 413941 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 5:39 pm
413941 spacer
>>413936

>What part of "trapped in poverty" are you not getting, lad?

I'm getting all of it. What I am saying is, your theory of being "trapped" in poverty isn't valid for everybody.


>There is a geopolitical underclass in the UK

What can go wrong when a sentence starts like this.


But seriously now.

>no stake in society, it's got nothing to do with pulling your socks up; their socks are pulled up, they're just knee deep in shit.

And yet, people find their way out of it. Indeed by pulling their socks up. I've met enough people who have done exactly that. One of my mates from uni is a lawyer now. Very decent job and salary, nice house in the suburbs. He grew up on a North London council estate. He told me a while ago that now, in our late 30s, some of his former mates from the council estate either have multiple prison terms under their belt or fathered half a dozen children with as many women, or both. One died in a knife fight with rivalling drug dealers at age 20, another one got run over by a bus while drunk off his tits. Some are alcoholics or former addicts living on disability. His first girlfriend became a mum at 16 (not with him) and has spent the last 20 years being a stay at home mum raising three or four more kids.

It would have been all too easy for my friend to follow along those lines. But despite his rough upbringing, he wanted something better for himself, and he succeeded.

I am not saying that there aren't people who can't escape from abject poverty just by their sheer own will power. It's hard, and if it was easy, more people would be doing it. But what I am saying is, it's a waste to think that people shouldn't at least try.
>> No. 413942 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 5:45 pm
413942 spacer
>>413939
>Source?

As one example:-

The Sutton Trust found that more than 40% of state secondary school teachers rarely or never advised their brightest pupils to apply to either the University of Oxford or the University of Cambridge.

The survey also revealed stubborn misconceptions held by teachers about the background of those pupils who did gain entry to Oxbridge, with the majority of those who responded underestimating the success rate of state school applicants, many by a wide margin.


https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/13/oxbridge-fails-persuade-state-teachers-send-pupils-interview

In this instance teachers are holding their pupils back due to their own misconceptions about Oxbridge, effectively being the ones perpetuating the cycle.

It's largely inverse snobbery. White working class people create a glass ceiling for themselves that you won't find in Chinese or Indian families.
>> No. 413943 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 5:47 pm
413943 spacer
>>413938

>Why do Indian and Chinese kids do so well at school? Because their parents tell them they can achieve and make a success of their lives. They haven't subscribed to the British class system.

That's only half the story. In many countries like that, there just isn't the sort of welfare system safety net which you have here and in most first-world countries. If you don't spend every waking hour making something of yourself, you will end up poor in the streets. There are vast underclasses in those countries who live hand to mouth all their lives. And you are very likely to join them and become one of them if you don't give it your all.

This kind of thinking isn't limited to India and China, by the way. I saw something a while ago where they interviewed a blue-collar working class immigrant from Jamaica who lives in Britain now with his wife and kids. And he said he doesn't mind hard work, really any kind of job. Because in Jamamica, if you don't work, you don't eat. End of. And that he was proud to teach his children those values as well.

Compare that to that programme on Channel 4 a few days ago about how after Brexit now, they are trying to fill jobs with Brits instead of EU citizens. They had one lad sitting in a job centre who actually told them, "You don't understand, I really don't want to work as such".
>> No. 413944 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 5:55 pm
413944 spacer
>>413941

Yeah, I agree with you. See >>413939

To use an analogy I very rarely get to use, telling your "Average" dolescum lad to pull their socks up and judging them on their efforts is akin to judging an Elephant by it's tree climbing ability. It all comes down to investment and opportunity, I made it out but I have an /iq/ of 128 and a great memory so I did well in higher education. If I didn't have that A in Biology as a leg up, I'd probably be dead in a knife fight as it took about 8 years after I had left for the town I grew up in to get any kind of investment. After that, it mellowed significantly and most of the scummy mummy types have jobs now as well.
>> No. 413945 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 5:57 pm
413945 spacer
>>413942

>effectively being the ones perpetuating the cycle.

Bastards. This confirms my crab pot theory, though.
>> No. 413946 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 6:08 pm
413946 spacer
>>413944

>To use an analogy I very rarely get to use, telling your "Average" dolescum lad to pull their socks up and judging them on their efforts is akin to judging an Elephant by it's tree climbing ability.

It's true that many of them simply haven't got their head screwed on the right way. Also, it's hard to find your path of virtue in life when all your adult role models will presumably be dolescum as well or other types of low life.

If you ask children of university educated parents what they want to be when they grow up, you are most likely going to hear things like doctor, scientist, lawyer, engineer or business person of some description. Often precisely because they see their parents having done something like it and succeeding in life because of it. But what do council estate kids aspire to. One of my friends from uni is a social worker now and actually deals with council estate inhabitants. She told me that children who grow up on a council estate much more often aspire to being either something low-brow like taxi driver or bin man, or living on welfare like their parents do. Or in fact be a drug dealer, like their cousin who drives a big BMW at age 22.

So what choices you make for yourself in your life depends greatly on what surroundings you were raised in. And yet, people do escape from the dolescum world.
>> No. 413947 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 6:51 pm
413947 spacer
>>413943
Oh it was in a Channel 4 documentary was it? Then it must be representative of the entire population.
>> No. 413948 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 6:57 pm
413948 spacer
>>413947

Channel 4 aren't the Daily Mail, lad.

Close perhaps, but still nowhere near as bigoted.
>> No. 413949 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:04 pm
413949 spacer
>>413948
No no, I actually want you to stop being facile.
>> No. 413950 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 7:23 pm
413950 spacer
>>413941
>And yet, people find their way out of it. Indeed by pulling their socks up. I've met enough people who have done exactly that.
This is what's known as survivorship bias, and it isn't helpful.
>> No. 413951 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 8:11 pm
413951 spacer
>>413950

It is helpful in that it proves that it can be done.

Try to be one of those survivors.

As for the whole "poor people shouldn't have nice things" and that, well, if you can't afford nice things, then you shouldn't get to buy them. At least not the nice things that cost money which you haven't got or which isn't yours. Make something of yourself. And then go and buy nice things with the money you've earned.
>> No. 413953 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 8:59 pm
413953 spacer
>>413951

Stop being obtuse, you've already conceded it isn't that easy and that you're in the minority. lenders aren't going to stop exploiting the poor, because you think they don't deserve furniture because they don't work.
>> No. 413954 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:00 pm
413954 spacer
Feel like there should be greater focus on the decisions of lenders when talking about debt. Debtors just ask for credit, you've still got someone who's actually willing to give them it. Tempting empting to contrive a situation where payday lenders and their ilk are fucked by a government policy change that lets people walk away from loans where there's a good case that they shouldn't have been issued in the first place.

I suppose the counter to that is that you dry up credit for those at the bottom completely if you make it even riskier to lend to them. Still, as a one-off thing to clear away some consumer debt it would be an interesting experiment.

>>413942
I wonder if there's any scope for widening the Oxbridge effect elsewhere. (i.e. adding a third, fourth, fifth university of similar stature.)
Recall reading an old politician's biography and having him note that he was always surprised by the doors a degree from one of those universities could open for you compared to others, in terms of social status as much as anything else.

>>413951
It's equally unhelpful in that it provides individual solutions to structural problems.
Human minds are particularly badly equipped to handle such circumstances. "You can lower your chances of being mugged by not waving your wallet around in a seedy area" quickly lends itself to "you deserved to be mugged for irresponsibly waving your wallet around..." even if the former is (notionally) neutral, obvious advice and the latter is a value judgement.
>> No. 413955 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:11 pm
413955 spacer
>>413951
>It is helpful in that it proves that it can be done.
No, it isn't.

>Try to be one of those survivors.
That's precisely the point, you daft bellend.
>> No. 413956 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 9:56 pm
413956 spacer
>>413953

>because you think they don't deserve furniture because they don't work.

Fucking Christ lad.

Do you honestly think I would want poor people to have no chair to sit on or no bed to sleep in? I did say "nice things". Not basic household furnishings that allow a dignified human existence. You don't need the latest 40'' plasma TV to keep up on current events as a poor person. You don't need solid oak livingroom furniture. If you want either of those things, get a job and start saving up.


>>413954

>Feel like there should be greater focus on the decisions of lenders when talking about debt. Debtors just ask for credit, you've still got someone who's actually willing to give them it.

For the lenders, it's simple maths. Payday loans and other forms of short-term consumer credit tend to work out for them because the high interest rates they ask, and which people pay because they've got no alternative, cover the losses caused by debtors who default on their loans or who can't pay back on time.

What I think is a good effort on the government's part is the Money Advice Service at https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en. More people should be made aware of it.


>It's equally unhelpful in that it provides individual solutions to structural problems.

You can mope all you want about "structural" problems. The bottom line of it is, if you want to see changes in your life, don't look to others for help. Least of all the government. It helps to realise that Britain has one of the most generous welfare states in the entire world. You can eke out an existence as dolescum and almost never see an honest day's work in your life. People in less fortunate countries, on the other hand, won't say "I'm poor because my country is run by a corrupt family clan that bags billions of foreign aid for itself and its extended family, while I live in a mud road slum in a hut made of discarded corrugated aluminium". Because all of that is simply a given. They will just get on with it and try to make the best of things. You with your British ideas about government welfare would just get laughed at. Possibly even get shot at by the local drug peddlers.

Maybe it's the British way to always blame the government for this and that. Even for your own poverty or that of other people. But fuck structural problems. If you are going to wait for "structural problems" to go away, or more precisely, for somebody to make them go away before you make any attempts of your own to escape from your shit life, then you've got your priorities fundamentally wrong.
>> No. 413957 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 10:50 pm
413957 spacer
>>413956

Poverty approved furniture, eh?
>> No. 413958 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 10:52 pm
413958 spacer
>>413954
>Tempting empting to contrive a situation where payday lenders and their ilk are fucked by a government policy change that lets people walk away from loans where there's a good case that they shouldn't have been issued in the first place.

That'd lead to people trying their luck and claiming they shouldn't have been given money to try and get their debts written off. I remember reading an article about interest only mortgages the other year where a couple were complaining that they didn't understand that their interest only mortgage meant they'd have to come up with a plan for paying off the capital sum at the end of the term, so the bank should never have let them take it out.
>> No. 413959 Anonymous
25th November 2017
Saturday 11:17 pm
413959 spacer
>>413956
>Do you honestly think I would want poor people to have no chair to sit on or no bed to sleep in? I did say "nice things". Not basic household furnishings that allow a dignified human existence.
As someone with the use of both a chair to sit on and a bed to sleep in, I can confirm that they are very nice things to have.
>> No. 413960 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:00 am
413960 spacer
>>413958

>where a couple were complaining that they didn't understand that their interest only mortgage meant they'd have to come up with a plan for paying off the capital sum at the end of the term, so the bank should never have let them take it out.


Were they trying to come up with an excuse not to pay the money back? Because even if a judge ruled that the bank really never should have given them the money, then surely they'd still have to return it. The bank still would have had a rightful claim to the money in its books.

It's like when your mum says to your dad that he never should have given you the keys to his car. At that point, you still owe your dad your car back, and you can't honestly say to him "Too bad for you, you never should have given me your car, and therefore it's mine now".

If you know what I mean.
>> No. 413961 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:04 am
413961 spacer
>>413953

My parents set up home together in the late 70s. They were both teachers on reasonably good incomes, but all of their furniture was second-hand and fairly shabby. The photos of my first birthday show bare floorboards, peeling paint, a threadbare settee and an upturned tea chest serving as a coffee table. That was entirely normal for the time - before the consumer credit boom of the 1980s, it was just assumed that working people built a home gradually, saving up for what they could afford and making do with hand-me-downs. Wedding lists really mattered, because you needed your friends and family to help you out with basic things like a set of crockery or a kettle.

We now expect that everyone should have all new everything from day one. That's not a bad aspiration, but it's a dangerous expectation. People are drowning in debt because they feel inferior if they don't have the right things. Stuff that was a luxury when I was a child is now a necessity. The working class fell hook, line and sinker for Thatcherism and have been paying the price ever since.

It'd be great if everyone could have everything they want, but we don't live in that world. All I'm suggesting is that if you're skint, you might be happier with a second-hand sofa off Gumtree for £40 rather than paying DFS £15 a month for five years for something marginally nicer.
>> No. 413962 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:16 am
413962 spacer
>>413961

>- before the consumer credit boom of the 1980s, it was just assumed that working people built a home gradually, saving up for what they could afford and making do with hand-me-downs


Thank you. Finally, somebody with some sense on here.


>We now expect that everyone should have all new everything from day one. That's not a bad aspiration, but it's a dangerous expectation. People are drowning in debt because they feel inferior if they don't have the right things. Stuff that was a luxury when I was a child is now a necessity. The working class fell hook, line and sinker for Thatcherism and have been paying the price ever since.


Absolutely. You don't buy a new BMW on tick because that is what you desperately need to be able to go to work in the morning at all. A tired-out '98 Vauxhall estate will enable you to do that just the same. But you indeed feel inferior if your neighbour pulls out of his driveway in a shiny new BMW 520, which he himself very likely bought on credit just the same way.

Thatcherism fucked over the middle classes for all eternity in that respect. Because rather than actually enabling people to move up the social ladder like it promised, all it did was sell people the illusion that they would be a valued member of society if they had the right material possessions, no matter how they came by them.


>All I'm suggesting is that if you're skint, you might be happier with a second-hand sofa off Gumtree for £40 rather than paying DFS £15 a month for five years for something marginally nicer.


I have a lemon yellow vintage 1987 Ikea sofa and armchair set as my livingroom furniture. It looks fucking hilarious, but as I've got a few friends who are into collecting "vintage" things, they envy me for it, and maybe even more for the fact that I didn't snap it up at some jumble sale but actually inherited it as a hand-me-down from my parents. I see no reason on Earth to throw it out any time soon.
>> No. 413963 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:32 am
413963 spacer
>>413962
>maybe even more for the fact that I didn't snap it up at some jumble sale but actually inherited it as a hand-me-down from my parents
It must be nice to be in a position to inherit something from your parents.
>> No. 413964 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:03 am
413964 spacer
>>413963

tell 'em, Steve-Dave. It's a 30-year-old couch and armchair. It's not like I inherited an 18th century country house chaiselongue.
>> No. 413965 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:09 am
413965 spacer
>>413964

>tell 'em, Steve-Dave. 

the fuck kind of word filter is that.
>> No. 413966 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:19 am
413966 spacer
>>413964
It does, however, mean you had no need to buy a couch and armchair, and therefore enjoyed the privilege of not having to decide between the risks of buying from a shop on credit or buying from a nobody on the internet.
>> No. 413968 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:46 am
413968 spacer
>>413966

Fuck, lad. Again, it's a 30-year-old nondescript Ikea couch. And armchair. Any charity shop will set you up with a set like that for 50 quid. Come off it already.
>> No. 413969 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:48 am
413969 spacer
>>413968
Bloody poshos with their fancy antique furniture.
>> No. 413970 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 8:21 am
413970 spacer
>>413960
I've found the article:-

Citizens Advice said 934,000 owners did not have a plan for how to pay back the money at the end of the mortgage term.

Sarah, who lives near Brighton and has an interest-only mortgage, said she and her husband could hardly afford the interest when they bought their house and frequently fell into arrears.

"We were silly. We'd just had our first baby," she said. "But they shouldn't have given the loan. We didn't understand what we were taking on and didn't think about having to pay it back."

They have 16 years until they have to return nearly £200,000, but admit the debt has become a constant worry.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34144333

They've managed to live in a property nicer than they'd be able to otherwise afford and if they have to sell it at the end of the mortgage term then chances are they'll have made a tidy capital sum due to rising property prices.

They're trying to completely absolve themselves of personal responsibility. Saying they didn't know what they were taking on when the words "interest only mortgage" is a great big fuck off clue. There's a terrible mentality in this country for people wanting their arses wiping for them, thinking things are always somebody else's responsibility and expecting others to sort things out for them.

They can blame the greedy banksters all they want for letting them take out the mortgage, but it's rudimentary to check yourself whether the repayments are actually affordable.
>> No. 413971 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 8:51 am
413971 spacer
Wasn't the remit of PPI repayments to 'put the customer back in the position they would have been, had they not taken the product'?
If that model is used for IO mortgages, I doubt there'll be a lot of takeup for compensation...
>> No. 413972 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 8:53 am
413972 spacer
>>413971 check yourself whether the repayments are actually affordable.

That's a hell of a thing to ask / assume over a 25 year period, especially if it's no longer safe to assume that 'Things can only get better' (tm).
>> No. 413973 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 9:29 am
413973 spacer
>>413971
The "next PPI" is going to be final salary pension transfers. The moment there's a large market fall or people's pensions don't provide enough income to last their lifetimes the complaints are going to flood in.

>>413972
If you take out a mortgage you don't only consider whether the repayments are affordable now. You look into whether you can afford the repayments if interest rates rise. You consider if you've got sufficient wiggle room if your earnings fall.

There was nothing in the article to suggest they've suffered hardship and interest rates have been rock bottom for the last 10 years or so. The repayments on an interest only mortgage are relatively low, far cheaper than renting or a repayment mortgage, which means it's almost certain this couple are complete mongs at managing their finances.
>> No. 413974 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 10:08 am
413974 spacer
>>413961

Who actually needs a washing machine when you have a perfectly good bath, right?
>> No. 413975 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:16 pm
413975 spacer
>>413956
>Payday loans and other forms of short-term consumer credit tend to work out for them because the high interest rates they ask, and which people pay because they've got no alternative, cover the losses caused by debtors who default on their loans or who can't pay back on time.
I'm (implicitly) asking for a system that makes it very tempting for everyone on low incomes to walk on payday loans by saying "Well, your 2000% APR shows you knew they weren't really creditworthy, what the fuck did you expect they were going to do?", It's as much a moral position as a practical one. (The problem, as I recognize, is that you might just cut off that line of credit entirely, but there should arise some circumstances where it's recognized the lender is the person "morally in the wrong")

>They will just get on with it and try to make the best of things
tbh this just reads as a massive reason to support third world revolutions, even if they just cycle around who's fucking who. If you're going to live like shit anyway, you might as well have your brief existence filled with violent catharsis at the expense of those who put you there.

Of course you can also infer slightly from that, I don't really think we should advocate adopting third world attitudes in a first world country where we can do better. (Of course, we don't need violence. There are lots of non violent, legal ways to make yourself a massive pain in the arse to make a point...)

>>413958
The people trying their luck would seem to have a valid case though. I mean, by merit of the fact they're trying their luck they're people that wise lenders should detect aren't creditworthy. If you can't cover your own bases, why should anyone give you money back? (Implicitly here, there's the moral judgement that you saw a rube who'd pay your obscene interest rates - and if they wind up in a debt spiral, tough luck to them. Well I say turn that around: If they can't pay you back when you tried to exploit them, tough luck to you.)
>> No. 413976 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:30 pm
413976 spacer
So here's what confuses me.
Fundamentally people are buying things they can't afford, using loans they can't repay, so they're living beyond their means.

But I don't understand how this interacts with how loans actually work. (This is a double pronged question.)
1. For bank loans, banks don't give you the money of people who put their money in the bank - they create new money in your account ( http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneycreation.pdf ) - does it work this way with payday lenders, etc, as well, or do they have an actual cash-base? (i.e. lending out the money other people are repaying + money from company founders.)
2. Since we're talking about creating new money anyway (for this, let's just say bank loans), it's then hard to wrap one's head around why it actually needs to be paid back. Obviously if you create too much of it, it's inflationary, but since it's coming from thin air I don't really understand how the bank makes a "real" loss if you don't pay it back (except on the expected interest), or why by some accounting contrivance you couldn't move debt to a balance-sheet entity that relieves actual extant people of having to repay it. (i.e. state transfer of certain debts to a holding company which then pays things back at like £1/year, leaving it notionally outstanding but never actually being repaid.) and then controlling what purposes money is created for in a social fashion.

We can whittle it down to the primary constraint on money creation being inflation (hence why we can't just give everyone money to enjoy a middle class lifestyle), but I don't see how this interacts with creating money by making loans which should also be inflationary, but doesn't appear to be. Why if I create money and hand it out is it inflationary, but if I ask for it back that effect is diminished? On the business side, if I see everyone is getting thousands of pounds in loans why wouldn't I put prices up to take advantage of it? Their repayments aren't my problem. (I have encountered at the sideline that because most of the bank lending is for mortgages, so the inflationary results have been constrained to the housing market, but that's about it.)

A less coherent and slightly more off topic post than I wanted, but ever since seeing the BoE recognize that view of money creation rather than just heterodox economists it's made the whole issue of money, and problems with the distribution of money much more confusing.
>> No. 413977 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:35 pm
413977 spacer
>>413974

Launderettes still exist. You can buy a decent second-hand washing machine for about £70. There's nothing necessarily wrong with buying a fridge or a washing machine on credit as long as you're sensible about it; paying 99.9% APR at Brighthouse is clearly not sensible. I'm not telling people what they can or can't have, I'm just suggesting that they might benefit from a bit of short-term frugality in the service of long-term financial stability.
>> No. 413978 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 12:51 pm
413978 spacer
>>413976

For a bank, their dream customer is perpetually indebted. They don't mind customers who occasionally fall behind on their payments, because that allows them to tack on penalty charges. They don't want customers who default, which is why companies like Brighthouse or Wonga charge scandalously high interest rates - they're lending to customers that no-one else will touch and pricing the risk of default into the interest rate.

Credit avoids being massively inflationary because the debt is repaid. The banks are (to some extent) conjuring money out of thin air, but they're also taking money out of the economy when that debt is repaid. Banks do have reserve requirements - they can create new money to lend, but they can only do so up to a defined ratio to their capital and cash reserves. This is imposed to control the money supply and so control inflation.

Retailers can put their prices up a bit if the market is glutted with cheap credit (which is exactly why it can be inflationary), but they're still operating in a competitive environment. I might be a bit more inclined to spend if I'm borrowing cheaply, but I'll still be shopping for a good deal. The housing market shows what happens if you've got loads of credit but limited competition due to constraints on supply.
>> No. 413979 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:19 pm
413979 spacer
>>413977

The people you are talking about don't care about long-term financial security, as debt doesn't affect them as they can just go bankrupt. They don't have mortgages, they don't drive and companies are offering them credit cards which in their eyes are free money as not paying them is of little consequence to their life.
>> No. 413980 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:25 pm
413980 spacer
>>413975

>I'm (implicitly) asking for a system that makes it very tempting for everyone on low incomes to walk on payday loans by saying "Well, your 2000% APR shows you knew they weren't really creditworthy, what the fuck did you expect they were going to do?"

You could argue that that is already happening. Like I said, the high interest that you pay on those loans already takes into account that some people will be unable to pay it back. So they indeed implicitly know that at least some of the debtors that they give loans to are not creditworthy.

You'd be on thin ice though devising it as a legal rule that people who are not creditworthy should just get to take the money and fuck off and never pay it back. That would only drive interest rates up even further, as they would have to account for even more people not paying the loan back, either not on time or not ever.


>tbh this just reads as a massive reason to support third world revolutions, even if they just cycle around who's fucking who. If you're going to live like shit anyway, you might as well have your brief existence filled with violent catharsis at the expense of those who put you there.

My point was just that many of us Brits simply look to the government for support too much. A person from an urban slum in Zimbabwe would probably laugh at you if you told them that North Londoners are having it rough because that part of the city has "structural disadvantages".

Imagined conversation between you and a slum dweller:

- "Do you have running water on those wondrous council estates you keep telling me about?"

- "Yes. But people work menial jobs and the money is hardly enough to send all their kids to school. They can't even buy a 40'' flat screen TV because the government thinks they shouldn't have nice things".

- "Are all the roads paved around those estates?"

- "Of course they are. B-but people have to spend years applying for a bigger council house when their children are born".

- "Does the government send secret police to those council estates in the middle of the night to shoot up the place?"

- "No, but you still don't understand. Only ten percent of children from council estastes ever make it into university!"


It's easy to point to third world shitholes like that and say that we shouldn't complain because we've still got it so good here. But there is a point to it. A person on a council estate in Britain is still privileged. They have infinitely more possibilities to make something of themselves than somebody in a Zimbabwean slum.

The British way seems to be that when the government blows sugar up your arse, you will still write them an angry letter and complain that it's not fair traded sugar.
>> No. 413981 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:27 pm
413981 spacer
>>413977
>paying 99.9% APR at Brighthouse is clearly not sensible

That's a matter of perspective. BrightHouse clearly state what the full will be. If I wanted a 50" 4K Samsung telly then it's £1,170 instead of £523.75 by paying £7.50 a week over the course of three years. That's a mark up of about 124%.

https://www.brighthouse.co.uk/products/home-entertainment/televisions/samsung-50-4k-tv

However, I can't afford the £523.75 outright. I have to pay the premium due to the amount of bad debts they have (others have tried the same model as BrightHouse with lower interest rates and gone bust) so this is a manageable way of having nice things.
>> No. 413982 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:29 pm
413982 spacer
>>413977

>Laundrettes still exist.

Lad, get real. The law requires new house builds have pre-plumbed facilities for a washing machine and the Govt has an essential white goods list that new tenants can apply for budgeting loans to buy. Launderettes still exist in isolation, but painting them as an alternative to a washing machine in your own home when quality of living standards do everything but outright state their necessity is disingenuous at best.
>> No. 413983 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:35 pm
413983 spacer
>>413980

>The British way seems to be that when the government blows sugar up your arse, you will still write them an angry letter and complain that it's not fair traded sugar.

God forbid you complain about a yeasty arse afterwards, it's free sugar after all.
>> No. 413984 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:42 pm
413984 spacer

People_Have_It_Worse_Than_You_SMBC.gif
413984413984413984
>>413980
>My point was just that many of us Brits simply look to the government for support too much.
It's a silly point really. The problem isn't that we've got a functioning government, it's that Zimbabwe has an utterly dysfunctional government.
The whole discourse of privilege in this sense is stupid. It's not a privilege to have running water, it's a base expectation. These base expectations are of course somewhat arbitrary, but there's always an undercurrent to everything that is said. "People here should stop complaining" just maintains a status quo that can be and should be improved.

>Imagined conversation between you and a slum dweller:
There's something uncomfortable about sitting and imagining another individual behind their computer screen typing this out thinking it could possibly be a good idea.

Anyhow: There's nothing wrong with ratcheting your societal expectations, especially when there's no good reason for things to be as stagnant as they are. (There are perfectly valid explanations like our dire productivity, but that in and of itself is not a justification when alternative policies could have yielded a better result.)
>> No. 413985 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:48 pm
413985 spacer
>>413979

>The people you are talking about don't care about long-term financial security

For people who don't care about financial security, they spent a remarkable amount of time in my office crying their eyes out and saying things like "I don't know how I'm ever going to get out of this mess. I can't eat, I can't sleep, I think my family would be better off if I'm dead".

Bankruptcy is difficult, expensive and has massive repercussions on your ability to secure any kind of credit. Most people on low incomes aren't even eligible for bankruptcy; if they were mad enough to apply (and could find the £680 costs), the county court would just bounce them to an insolvency practitioner. There are manageable routes out of debt if you've got good advice and support, but you can't just wipe your hands of it.

Poor people with debt problems aren't profligate and reckless, they just lack the skills to manage their money well. Poor literacy and numeracy are endemic, even among people in semi-skilled work. A lot of highly educated people struggle to fully understand a credit agreement, let alone someone who has the literacy skills of a ten-year-old. It's almost inevitable that you'll fall into financial difficulties if you're taking on debt but don't really understand how interest works.

The regulators of our financial services industry either don't understand or don't care about the lack of knowledge and skills that causes people to fall into difficulties with debt. The information provided to creditors is perfectly satisfactory if they were Homo Economicus, but it's totally inadequate for normal, fallible human beings. People see that their friends have nice stuff, they see that you can have a load of nice stuff for £x per week, but they don't have the skills required to understand the repercussions of taking on that amount of debt. People who might be in a position to know better are often lulled into debt by seductive marketing and the perils hyperbolic discounting.

Without support from the regulators, we need a grass-roots movement against debt and in support of financial literacy. We need a change in the culture that rejects the quasi-serfdom of buy now, pay later. We need to revolt against the idea that you're somehow a lesser human being if you've got a tatty old Corsa and a load of threadbare furniture.

When the bastards really are out to get you, prudent financial advice starts to sound a lot like class consciousness. Our financial services industry is callous, predatory and poorly regulated. We've been lulled into a false sense of security about debt, but that nice man in the shop offering you hire purchase hides a dagger behind his back. I've seen too many people rendered desperate and destitute simply because they did the things that they thought they were supposed to do. They're not bad people, they just lacked the skills to defend themselves against a system that's designed to milk them dry.
>> No. 413986 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 1:51 pm
413986 spacer
>>413984

>It's not a privilege to have running water, it's a base expectation.

Yes, but even so, if you believe certain charities, over one billion people on this planet still don't have running water. That's one in every seven of our fellow human beings.

I believe it would do some of the dolescum in this country some good to spend one week living in a Zimbabwean slum.
>> No. 413987 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:01 pm
413987 spacer
>>413986
You'll be unsurprised to learn my solution for the lack of running water is to pay someone to go and provide running water, rather than telling those who lack it to at least be grateful that they've at least got food, unlike the people currently suffering famine...

>I believe it would do some of the dolescum in this country some good to spend one week living in a Zimbabwean slum.
Truthfully I can't see it having much meaningful effect. Zimbabwe is alien. It's very easy, mentally, to deal with differential living standards (at least in the downwards direction) when you see the people below you as different in some way. It's much harder to deal with people who seem similar to you, or at least not obviously better than you, living at a much higher standard.
>> No. 413988 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:03 pm
413988 spacer
>>413981

If you can't afford a 50" 4K TV, don't buy one. A £500 TV doesn't become any more affordable if you pay £1,100 for it over three years, you're just being bled more slowly. If you can't find £500 for a TV, then you're absolutely fucked if you get an unexpectedly large electricity bill or your boiler breaks down.

That kind of financial fragility is what sends people into unmanageable debt crisis. If there's no wiggle room in your weekly budget and you don't have any savings for a rainy day, you'll inevitably end up borrowing to pay for essentials. Once you're borrowing to pay for essentials, the cost of servicing the debt pushes you beyond your means. Once you're stuck with more going out than you've got coming in, you're just slowly and desperately circling the drain.

Get something cheap off Gumtree or from the charity shop, stick your £7.50 a week into a savings account and buy a nice TV when you can comfortably afford it. A bigger telly or a nicer sofa is never worth teetering on the brink of destitution for.
>> No. 413989 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:05 pm
413989 spacer
>>413985

I think we're talking about different people, as you're not getting the mentality of the people I know who've done this.
>> No. 413990 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:08 pm
413990 spacer
>>413988

Social housing tenants don't have to worry about a boiler breakage, or an unexpected electricity bill. You're privileged that you don't have any concept of what a key meter is lad.
>> No. 413991 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:09 pm
413991 spacer
>>413988

>A bigger telly or a nicer sofa is never worth teetering on the brink of destitution for.

Not to you it isn't.
>> No. 413992 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:14 pm
413992 spacer
>>413988

> A £500 TV doesn't become any more affordable if you pay £1,100 for it over three years, you're just being bled more slowly.

And for a bigger amount.

If you saved money those three years to have £500 in your account at the end of it, so you would be able to just go and buy a TV with that money, then yes, you'd have spent three years without that 50'' TV. But you would own a £500 TV in three years that would be yours, it would be latest technology in three years, and you wouldn't owe anybody anything for it.

That's the kind of thinking that was taught earlier generations. Consumer credit has thrown that kind of sound advice out the window for all eternity, it appears.
>> No. 413993 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:17 pm
413993 spacer
>>413992
That's still a mug's game. Save for 1-2 years and buy the model you originally wanted for a fraction of the price.
>> No. 413994 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:18 pm
413994 spacer
>>413992

Consumer credit losing it's attraction for shoppers is what gave us the double dip recession. If people saved for things en masse the country would be on life support. Every time trends head that way, all the news channels start ringing alarm bells in peoples ears "Spend our way out of recession!", remember?
>> No. 413995 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:27 pm
413995 spacer
>>413992
That assumes that owning a TV in three years' time is worth more than having use of said TV in the intervening time.
>> No. 413996 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:33 pm
413996 spacer
>>413989

For many years, I was the cunt tasked with stitching back together the broken lives of the British underclass. For all the bitching and moaning I did about the daft fuckers with their Wonga loans and their Brighthouse tellies, I never really met many people who weren't trying their best.

For me, that's the tragedy of the whole situation. I didn't meet many lazy dolescum, but I did meet a huge number of people who had been hammered down by shit parents and shit schools and had totally lost confidence in their ability to do anything useful. I didn't meet many people who just stuck things on credit without thinking about the consequences, but I did meet plenty of people who literally didn't know enough maths to compare their income with their outgoings. Day in and day out, I saw people who were utterly exhausted with the effort of treading water, because no fucker had ever taught them to swim.

I used to get really frustrated about people who'd come in and ask to get put on a pre-payment electricity meter. In line with my training, I'd patiently explain that you paid more for your electricity on a pre-payment meter and offered to help them work out a budget so that they weren't caught out when the bill arrived. Eventually, I realised that most of these people just couldn't do basic arithmetic. When I talked to them about budgeting, I might as well have been talking Sanskrit. Dividing a quarterly bill by twelve weeks might as well have been proving the Riemann Hypothesis. They would rather sit in the dark at the end of the month, because it was better than living with the fear of that bill.

I'd love it if the underclass were just selfish lazy cunts. I'd sleep far better at night if I knew that people struggling with poverty and debt were just shiftless wankers. Unfortunately I know better, and it fucking haunts me. It's like watching a car crash in slow motion, over and over again.
>> No. 413998 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:47 pm
413998 spacer
>>413996

Which goes back to my original point of them being trapped in poverty, through either being a bit thick (not their fault) or as one lad mentioned their teachers tell them they'll never amount to anything. On the other hand, I used to work with a guy who was mistakenly given a credit card by a loan company at 15 by replying to one of their "You've been pre-selected to apply" letters and he went straight and bought £500 worth of clothes and then threw the card away. He had provided an entirely fake name and DoB and only the address was the same. He bragged about it to another lad who has modified his electricity meter so it's free and paid £X00 for a fake birth certificate so he could try and claim child benefit for his dog, which he paid for with a provident loan he then bailed on. Don't even get me started on people bumping Littlewoods or Very.
>> No. 413999 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 2:48 pm
413999 spacer
>>413978
>Credit avoids being massively inflationary because the debt is repaid. The banks are (to some extent) conjuring money out of thin air, but they're also taking money out of the economy when that debt is repaid.
This is partially confusing though. If you inject £20,000 in the economy to be repaid at say £2k/year, you take money out of the economy much more slowly than you put it in. You'd expect a trend much more like a jump in inflation when the loan is made, followed by the constraint of expectation as time goes on. (Ignoring the complications of multiple loans and expectations.)

Once factoring other loans it would seem possible to contrive something like writing off debt while limiting lending to control inflation. (You then have to manage expectations around the debt write off to stop people chancing it, but that wouldn't seem impossible.) So for example, it would seem like in a sort of inflationary balance sheet you could just make the £20k loan in year 1 (assuming as standard, 20k is lent each year), get repaid £2k at the end of year 1, then write all 18k outstanding off in year 2 and only lend £18k for the next 9 years to control inflation. (Since functionally the result should be the same - either you inject an extra 20k and remove an extra 2k each year, or you only inject 18k for 9 after writing off year 1.)

It also doesn't seem like defaults should be inflationary, even though you lose the future expectation of removing that money from the economy.
On a final tangent I then wonder how this interacts with Steve Keen types advocating for management of excess consumer debt by creating money. (iirc the idea goes that you throw money at people's bank accounts with a stipulation it must be used to pay off existing debts before you can spend it elsewhere - since most people will do that, you can limit the inflationary effect while digging people out of a hole of debt.)
>> No. 414004 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 8:27 pm
414004 spacer
>>413998
>Don't even get me started on people bumping Littlewoods or Very.
Please do go on.
>> No. 414006 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 8:51 pm
414006 spacer
>>413994

>Every time trends head that way, all the news channels start ringing alarm bells in peoples ears "Spend our way out of recession!", remember?

The problem is that this is no longer working. It was an ill advised idea to begin with. True, it became the answer to our enconomic worries at the begining of the Thatcher era. Having consumer credit available to you meant you would buy goods now that you'd only actually have the money for later. Indeed, you can buy yourself out of one recession that way. But the real problem soon became that you had entire world economies depending on artifically created demand for goods and services that never would have existed without those cheap loans. And now, just look at the ECB. Mario Draghi has said for years that zero or even negative interest is the ECB's way of hoping to fuel economic recovery. Except that's not what is happening. Draghi's target has been an inflation increase in the Euro zone. This has not happened, no matter how much cheap credit he has thrown at the Euro economy. Instead, banks have pocketed the cheap money and used it for excessively risky capital market speculation.

Many economists believe that the only healthy consumer demand is the one created by somebody actually buying goods from earned income. Because then they are passing the actual fruit of their own labour on to the economy on a wider scale. It is money that has come from their own productivity and from doing their own part in creating economic growth.

Whereas buying things on credit not only means that demand comes from economic growth that hasn't even happened yet, but that when that future economic growth eventually occurs, the income that that growth creates must be used to pay off your debts from before. In that sense, excessive personal debt can actually stifle future economic growth. Which is even worse than simply robbing Peter to pay Paul.
>> No. 414011 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 11:30 pm
414011 spacer
Mo Money Mo Problems, did you kids really not learn anything in school?
>> No. 414012 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 11:34 pm
414012 spacer
>>414011
>did you kids really not learn anything in school?
This is Britain. Nobody learns anything in school any more.
>> No. 414013 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 11:42 pm
414013 spacer
>>414012

As evidenced by your spelling of "anymore".
>> No. 414015 Anonymous
26th November 2017
Sunday 11:52 pm
414015 spacer
>>414013
https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/17/any-more/
>In the UK, the two-word spelling is still preferred.
>> No. 414033 Anonymous
27th November 2017
Monday 7:58 am
414033 spacer
>>414015

Lad.
>> No. 414068 Anonymous
30th November 2017
Thursday 4:06 pm
414068 spacer
I'm going indoor karting with a few coworkers this weekend. It's going to be part of our Christmas party as it were. The actual party will be a few hours later at a different venue, but we decided to do something fun among us immediate coworkers that day to balance out the boredom that usually befalls us during the actual company Christmas party.
>> No. 414079 Anonymous
1st December 2017
Friday 8:04 pm
414079 spacer
>>414068

It's almost like you want to admit you are friends, but are to socially inept and/or repressed to make plans without it being a special occasion.
>> No. 414081 Anonymous
1st December 2017
Friday 8:14 pm
414081 spacer
>>414079

Not him, but you aren't half chatting some shit.
>> No. 414083 Anonymous
1st December 2017
Friday 8:48 pm
414083 spacer
>>414079

It's sounds like they are his friends and he has plans with them.
>> No. 414084 Anonymous
2nd December 2017
Saturday 12:04 am
414084 spacer

3.gif
414084414084414084
First night back on the mirtazapine, lads!
>> No. 414086 Anonymous
2nd December 2017
Saturday 1:21 am
414086 spacer
>>414084

As someone who may well be going back on the escitalopram within a week or so I am both sympathetic and slightly jealous.
>> No. 414088 Anonymous
2nd December 2017
Saturday 11:46 am
414088 spacer
>>414086

It was just nice to get a decent night's sleep for once. Hope your ectoplasm or whatever does you right, mate!
>> No. 414095 Anonymous
2nd December 2017
Saturday 7:31 pm
414095 spacer
I just removed the battery from my car to charge it up in my flat over night. It's sort of getting to where it's struggling with the cold weather, and me using the car mainly for short trips around town isn't helping.

Funny thing happened as I was hunched over the engine bay of my car in the dark with a small torch. A police car saw me and stopped next to me, and then one of them rolled down his window and asked, "Is everything alright here?". I guess they were alerted by the sight of a lad in a black wool cap and coat fidgeting about under an open bonnet in the dark. But when I then showed them my car keys and pressed the fob buttons that open and lock the doors, they were convinced that I wasn't just some mug. If I understood them correctly, they then also said that normally you're not allowed to intentionally leave a car undriveable on the side of a public road, but I then told them that it might be undriveable either way tomorrow morning if I don't recharge the battery properly over night. They didn't quite know how to counter that argument, so they let me proceed and drove off.
>> No. 414104 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 1:20 pm
414104 spacer
>>414095
Why are they cunts?
>> No. 414105 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 2:13 pm
414105 spacer
>>414104

ACAB mate.
>> No. 414106 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 3:55 pm
414106 spacer

Untitled-1.png
414106414106414106
>>414105
I made this for you.
>> No. 414108 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 6:21 pm
414108 spacer
Why does this place hate the police so much?
>> No. 414109 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 6:23 pm
414109 spacer
>>414108
Sting seems a bit up himself.
>> No. 414110 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 6:43 pm
414110 spacer
>>414108

You mean, other than the obvious reasons to hate the Police?
>> No. 414111 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 7:43 pm
414111 spacer
>>414110
What reasons? Ours aren't like the Americans.
>> No. 414112 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 8:18 pm
414112 spacer
>>414111

Yet, they still feel entitled to rough people up who annoy them or who they perceive as having wasted their time as and when they see fit. It's also a business, and they are incentivised not out of a concern for public safety but profit and beneficial statistics. They'll charge you with something that later gets dropped, so they can use analytical accounting to make it look like crime is more prevalent than it is to maintain a higher level of funding than they need so they can buy more riot gear for policing football matches.

I'm not saying individual's who are Policemen are bad people, but the organisation they work for is run by career minded money men. What I am definitely saying is that Football clubs should have to pay for their own security as Stadiums aren't public places. If they don't want to pay, they can apply to the council for a permit to stage their event and the Council can decide whether they will cover the cost of policing or not.
>> No. 414113 Anonymous
3rd December 2017
Sunday 11:21 pm
414113 spacer
>>414111

There's genuinely plenty of good policemen, but the system allows for the bad ones to do whatever the fuck they like. I fully admit to being a dodgy fucker in my youth, but some of the policeman I met were much worse. Certainly not all of our 'merchandise' made its way back to the station.
>> No. 414115 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 1:15 am
414115 spacer
>>414113

My aunt on my mother's side is married to a policeman. He is just an all around despicable human being; I can't say what he is like on the job, never met him in that capacity, as they live over three hours from here. But as a family member, in his private life, he is a complete fucking cunt who has managed to turn everybody in our family against him at one time or another over the course of the last 20 years or so.

Not sure how this is relevant to a debate about policemen being cunts on the job. Just thought I'd share.
>> No. 414117 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 1:20 am
414117 spacer
>>414108
Short answer; because I've met them. Some of them have been decent upstanding chaps, I’ve met plenty of power mad pricks though and even one of those is too many.

Long answer; I was in a restaurant once and a CPS guy was talking to the rookies on the next table. He told them don't bother going after the police for wrong doing unless you have an absurdly tight case. They will simply collaborate and lie to cover each other’s arses. The police close ranks and defend their own before anything else.
That culture is toxic. You only need to look at the details of the death of Ian Tomlinson, The police tried to cover up that they beat a man to death in broad daylight in front of thousands of witnesses. There is nothing that is unique about the mentality there, it was rehearsed, the reason they thought they could get away with it is because they have gotten away with covering each other’s arses in the past.
For every case where someone managed to get evidence of police behaving inappropriately there is doubtlessly untold events someone didn't have that footage, or there wasn't enough public will to dig deep enough to expose the wrong doing, or where the police have abused their position to be given the benefit of the doubt when it is their word verses a 'wrongun' in court. People like yourself who have faith in their integrity would immediately side with the copper. When it is multiple of them vs one they feel unstoppable and above the law.
Police body cameras are the best thing to ever happen. Being recorded keeps them and the public more honest. The sooner all actions the police perform when dealing with the public are recorded the better. The fact that police unions fight against their introduction regularly should tell you nothing good about the police.
>> No. 414118 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 2:22 am
414118 spacer
>>414104
What was cunty about them in this instance? If OP was a criminal, a copper showing he is aware of him may put the shit up him and prevent a crime from happening. Would also get useful description of him by talking to him. It's intelligence gathering. As for the undrivable car thing, it sounds like they used their discretion in enforcing that law. So where exactly were they cunts?
>> No. 414119 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 3:03 am
414119 spacer
I have no issues with the rozzers.
>> No. 414120 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 1:34 pm
414120 spacer
>>414119
Give it time.
>> No. 414131 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 9:33 pm
414131 spacer
>>414118

>and prevent a crime from happening.

Breaking into a car to open the bonnet would already have been a crime. They can already nick you for that if that's how the case unfolds.

My car got stolen once practically from my doorstep. I personally wouldn't have minded a few more police around my neighbourhood asking people questions that night.

The car was spotted in an abandoned industrial area four weeks later by somebody walking their dog. The thieves managed to do £8,000 worth of damage to a £5000 car, calculated based on the retail price of the missing or damaged parts. From the headlamps to the bonnet and the injection system, as well as the alloy wheels with brand new tyres. They also took my upmarket sound system, complete with the amp and all the speakers.

Who the fuck takes the time to remove the injection system from an engine when they are stripping a car for parts. I get the headlamps and the bonnet, and the alloy wheels. And the sound system was probably the easiest to flog off on eBay. But the injection system??
>> No. 414132 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 9:44 pm
414132 spacer
>>414131
It's good to use everything and not be wasteful. Think of the environment.
>> No. 414134 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 10:22 pm
414134 spacer
>>414131

The injectors alone are worth a few hundred on many cars, and if they took the coilpack too it was definitely worth the 15 minutes it'd have taken to pull it all out.

I bet they took the catalytic converter, too?
>> No. 414136 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 11:06 pm
414136 spacer
>>414134
Not him but surely the catalytic converter is the first thing you take if you're stripping a car?
>> No. 414137 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 11:17 pm
414137 spacer
>>414136

That's what I mean. Though maybe it's harder to sell something like that as it's immediately dodgy. If I was a scrappy I'd happily take any injectors or audio shite but a hammered out catback I might not.
>> No. 414138 Anonymous
4th December 2017
Monday 11:51 pm
414138 spacer
>>414137

Also, catalytic converters aren't always readily accessible from the engine bay without a car lift. On many cars with bigger engines and all the modern-day auxiliary components, you can't get to the catalytic converter(s) at all from above. So it'd involve much more criminal energy to drive the stolen car to somewhere where there's a car lift and where nobody will ask questions or they'll even be in on it.

That doesn't mean it isn't done. In my home town, a shop got nicked for tax evasion, and then they discovered that the place was also mainly a front to strip cars right after they were stolen that same night, and get all the parts shipped out by noon the next day mainly to Eastern Europe by lorry. It was really organised crime.
>> No. 414139 Anonymous
5th December 2017
Tuesday 12:12 am
414139 spacer
>>414138

It is, or was, impressively easy to steal new cars with keyless entry systems. The mind boggles that this shit isn't more encrypted, but it makes me feel better that my anti theft device is a big fuck off metal lock on the pedals.
>> No. 414140 Anonymous
5th December 2017
Tuesday 12:39 am
414140 spacer
>>414139

I entertained the idea for some time to install a hidden off switch for the ignition or fuel pump or something. But I decided not to mess with my car's vital electrics. You don't want your fuel pump to cut out on the motorway because of a ham-handedly installed switch.
>> No. 414141 Anonymous
5th December 2017
Tuesday 2:02 am
414141 spacer
>>414140

I've installed a couple in my older cars, the sort you could start with a few bare wires otherwise. I understand your apprehension, but if it's literally just an inline switch, there's hardly much that can go wrong.

The biggest challenge is finding a creative hiding spot for it. Thieves know where to look for these sorts of things, and it doesn't take long at all to sweep your hands around the cockpit to find a hidden switch.

I've seen a particularly impressive one in an old VW bus where the radio knobs had to be set at certain positions, and the plug in the cigarette lighter had to be removed. Mental, but clever.
>> No. 414142 Anonymous
5th December 2017
Tuesday 2:41 am
414142 spacer
>>414141

> I've seen a particularly impressive one in an old VW bus where the radio knobs had to be set at certain positions, and the plug in the cigarette lighter had to be removed. Mental, but clever.

This kind of thing I appreciate.
>> No. 414143 Anonymous
5th December 2017
Tuesday 4:27 am
414143 spacer
>>414139
>It is, or was, impressively easy to steal new cars with keyless entry systems.

I've recently bought a new(ish) car and my girlfriend is paranoid about it getting broken into; to be fair, there has been a few people in the local area who have had things stolen from their cars this way. Her solution is to leave the keys in a biscuit tin to act as a Faraday cage.
>> No. 414145 Anonymous
5th December 2017
Tuesday 12:07 pm
414145 spacer
>>414143

I think I almost fell victim to a key fob jamming attempt a few days ago.

I was in a supermarket car park, and I was getting out of my car and trying to lock the doors with the key fob, but the doors wouldn't lock and the indicators also weren't flashing. So I had to go back to my car and lock it manually with the key. Thankfully, as I drive a slightly older VW Passat, it's still got one physical lock on the driver side door. Many modern cars don't even have that. Anyway, as I was locking my car, somebody came up to me and said, "You've got that problem too? Your car doors not locking?". And we concluded that maybe somebody was hiding out in the car park with a signal jammer. Thieves will jam the signal from your key fob using a radio transmitter, and wait for people to not notice that their car doors don't lock as they leave their car. They then go and quickly grab from your car whatever valuables are easily accessible, and they will be gone again in an instant, and you probably won't even notice that you got mugged until you're on your way home again.

Looking around, we were vaguely suspecting a slightly run-down VW commercial van that was parked along the access road 50 feet away and just somehow looked like it didn't belong there, but we decided we didn't want any trouble and just left it at that.
>> No. 414158 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 5:38 pm
414158 spacer
Shamanism is a flat-Earther religion. It has to be. They pray facing the The Great Seal Hunt but it's only in that direction if the Earth is flat, otherwise they'd need to pray facing at some angle into the ground. If they believe in a globe Earth model then most eskimos are praying into space.
>> No. 414159 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 7:10 pm
414159 spacer
>>414158

Gravity and the atmosphere, m8. It bends prayers in the same way it bends light. The Muzzas nailed relativity years ago.
>> No. 414160 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 8:04 pm
414160 spacer
>>414158

In all seriousness, the Shamanismic world made huge advances in astronomy and navigation, because they wanted to pray in a precise direction at a precise time.

Malaysia recently sent their first astronaut to the International Space Station, a group of Shackletons had to figure out which direction he should pray in. The ISS orbits the earth every 92 minutes, so it's almost impossible to pray in any particular direction. Weightlessness also posed a problem - on the ISS, there's no obvious way to prostrate yourself. They came to the agreement that he should face towards Earth and make his best effort to at a bowing gesture; he figured out that he could velcro his feet to the floor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy_in_the_medieval_Shamanismic_world
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20894077/
>> No. 414161 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 8:09 pm
414161 spacer
>>414160
With all that knowledge they must have realised that they were praying at a wrong angle. Or does prayer work like a vertical plane that extends forward both up and down?
>> No. 414162 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 10:46 pm
414162 spacer
>>414160

>The ISS orbits the earth every 92 minutes, so it's almost impossible to pray in any particular direction. Weightlessness also posed a problem - on the ISS, there's no obvious way to prostrate yourself.


You can't help thinking "Where is your God now".

No, really, in which direction is he at this precise moment while you're hurtling through space 250 miles above the Earth attempting to pray to him?

Self-sage for lame attempt at humour.
>> No. 414163 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 11:07 pm
414163 spacer
>>414162
They're praying towards the holy site, not in the direction of God because he's everywhere. I presume.
>> No. 414164 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 11:37 pm
414164 spacer
>>414163

Well done, you. You've spotted why this was a lame attempt at humour.

>>414161
>With all that knowledge they must have realised that they were praying at a wrong angle.

I guess what counts really isn't the three-dimensional angle in space, but in which direction you would have to travel on the surface of the Earth to reach The North Pole. Because people in the South Pacific would indeed have to pray straight down towards the centre of the Earth to be facing The North Pole, and that isn't happening.

Then again, if you are literally on the opposite side of the Earth from The North Pole, then theoretically any direction you would be facing would be directly towards The North Pole.

I just looked on Google Earth, the exact opposite location on the globe would be 21.422510 S, 140.173832 W, and that's smack bang in the middle of the Southern Pacific Ocean. The closest patch of dry land would be the tiny atoll of Tematangi, pretty exactly 33 miles southwest from that precise point. That means for eskimos on Tematangi, The North Pole, by a smidgeon, is roughly to the northwest and that's the direction they should be facing.
>> No. 414165 Anonymous
9th December 2017
Saturday 11:40 pm
414165 spacer
>>414164

>Then again, if you are literally on the opposite side of the Earth from The North Pole, then theoretically any direction you would be facing would be directly towards The North Pole.

Even with the word filters, that sentence is still true. Baffling.
>> No. 414166 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 1:35 am
414166 spacer

800px-Craig_projection_SW.jpg
414166414166414166
So the idea of facing qibla is that it's a unity among eskimos, all having a focal point for their prayer. Knowing that while praying, you're doing it at the same time and the same way as countless others.

It's even written in the northern lights that way -

"From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred igloo; that is indeed the truth from the Lord. And The Great White Whale is not unmindful of what ye do."

I'd quite happily interpret that the intention of praying towards The North Pole far outweighs the accuracy. God is aware of your intentions even if you fail to read a compass correctly, or if the curvature of the earth hinders your accuracy.

Having said that, a lot of scientific and mathematical principles came about trying to keep to qibla. There has been a few discussions on which direction to pray while you're on a space station. It's not lost on me that Shamanism has been far better for technological advancement than Christianity ever was.
>> No. 414167 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 1:37 am
414167 spacer
>>414166

Do we need to wordfilter Qibla?
>> No. 414168 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 2:30 am
414168 spacer
>>414166
>God is aware of your intentions even if you fail

If any of you ever spoke to a eskimo you'd know this holds true for most Shamanismic doctrine. If it isn't possible to, for instance, clock up those prayers five times a day, The Great White Whale is, of course, merciful.
>> No. 414169 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 8:33 am
414169 spacer
Fucking hell, I thought we'd only see a few flakes but it is absolutely hoofing it down. Bastards, why couldn't it have done this on Monday morning.

>>414166
>It's not lost on me that Shamanism has been far better for technological advancement than Christianity ever was.

Let's not go too far now.
>> No. 414170 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 8:34 am
414170 spacer
>>414169
Just rain and wind here in the Deep South.
>> No. 414173 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 10:48 am
414173 spacer

P1030206.jpg
414173414173414173
Lovely jubbly
>> No. 414182 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 12:08 pm
414182 spacer
>>414166

>Having said that, a lot of scientific and mathematical principles came about trying to keep to qibla.

You find science emerging from faith in Christianity also. Natural scientists like Isaac Newton were actually more or less devout Christians, and their research was aimed at trying to better understand the inner workings of that alleged man up in the sky. Not to disprove his existence or replace biblical superstition with scientific astronomic fact. It was intended to explain just how God was doing all the things he was doing.

Then again, of course you had the Catholic Church burning people at the stake for claiming the Earth was round. It even took the Church several centuries to come to grips with the fact that astronomical science had proved that the Earth was just a rather quite insignificant speck of dust orbiting an entirely insignificant star in an unremarkable galaxy in the vastness of space (the "galaxy" thing was only proved in the early 20th century, but still). Catholics were even forbidden from reading certain books on the matter. Because the Church saw it as diminishing what they thought was their God's great plan, and that the Earth was the de facto centre of the Universe as they liked to infer from the Bible.
>> No. 414184 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 12:28 pm
414184 spacer
>>414182

Also, early Shamanismic medical science was light years ahead of us here in Europe, as the Catholic Church strictly forbade autopsies and dissecting of the dead to gain anatomical knowledge of the human body. When Michelangelo began his anatomical studies for his artistic depictions of the human form, he also occasionally cut open dead bodies. This could have got him in a whole lot of trouble with the Church.
>> No. 414186 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 3:09 pm
414186 spacer
>>414182
>Then again, of course you had the Catholic Church burning people at the stake for claiming the Earth was round.

No. If you're actually thick enough to still believe such a thing you might want to start by going through all the Galileo myths you've picked up: http://www.scientus.org/Galileo-Myths.html

>>414184
>the Catholic Church strictly forbade autopsies and dissecting of the dead to gain anatomical knowledge of the human body.

No.
>> No. 414190 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 4:53 pm
414190 spacer
Yeah, come off it lads, leave the Catholic church alone, all they want to do is live in a giant golden palace, perpetuate the aids epidemic in Africa, and rape a few wee kiddies.
>> No. 414192 Anonymous
10th December 2017
Sunday 7:58 pm
414192 spacer
>>414190

>perpetuate the aids epidemic in Africa

Pope "rat zinger" Benedict XVI is indeed on record having said something like "you don't have to be a doctor to come to the conclusion that nature is defending itself" in the early 80s when AIDS/HIV started out as a disease predominantly affecting gay men. Move along, nothing to see here, just God's will.
>> No. 414345 Anonymous
17th December 2017
Sunday 8:35 pm
414345 spacer
I bought coffee to go here at the station when I got off my train home two hours ago. There must have been something wrong with it, because I am beginning to feel like vomiting.

Their coffee machines did have a TFT display showing their internal temperature, which was apparently 85°C. It was one of those newfangled touchscreen coffee vending machines that grind beans fresh for every cup. Anyway, all I have had in the last four hours was that one cup of coffee with milk which also came out of the machine.

Should I call them and tell them that I am suspecting that their coffee is beginning to make me feel quite sick?
>> No. 414351 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 12:17 am
414351 spacer
>>414345

85°C does rule out most possibilities, but if the machine hasn't been cleaned properly then who knows. When was your last meal?


You should ring them just so they have to make sure. Alternatively rat them out to the FSA here https://www.food.gov.uk/enforcement/report-problem
>> No. 414352 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 2:32 am
414352 spacer
I enjoyed this weekend - first of over two weeks off.

Bring on the Christmas.

I am planing a strong and stable Noel this year.
>> No. 414353 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 11:56 am
414353 spacer
>>414351

I can't be arsed, tbh. If it was really their coffee that made me sick, then I would imagine that I wasn't the only customer. Somebody else will probably have complained to them, so why bother. They won't learn anything unless they really incur the wrath of a number of different people.

My last meal before the coffee was late lunch/early dinner at my parents'. It was frozen pizza, and it looked quite alright to me. No, I do think something was wrong with the coffee.
>> No. 414354 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 11:59 am
414354 spacer
>>414353
They might send someone out to clean it and in doing so you'd prevent someone else from getting sick.
>> No. 414355 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 12:06 pm
414355 spacer
>>414353

>It was frozen pizza, and it looked quite alright to me. No, I do think something was wrong with the coffee.

Did the coffee not look alright too?

Almost anything can make you ill. Could have been the pizza, your parents manky oven, the coffee, a turd smear you touched on the train, a wayward sneeze from a passenger, I could go on. It's pretty unlikely that a red hot acidic liquid was the thing harbouring the most bacteria in your day.
>> No. 414356 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 1:26 pm
414356 spacer
>>414355
>It's pretty unlikely that a red hot acidic liquid was the thing harbouring the most bacteria in your day.

Yeah - I have never heard anyone becoming poisoned from a bad cup of coffee, there are so many other likely things.
>> No. 414360 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 2:20 pm
414360 spacer
>>414355

>It's pretty unlikely that a red hot acidic liquid was the thing harbouring the most bacteria in your day.

85 degrees will kill off some 99.9% of bacteria nesting within a coffee machine's nooks and crannies. But it doesn't reliably remove mold and other fungi. I've got a friend who works for a company that makes machines to sanitise/sterilise surgical equipment for hospitals. And he told me that their machines work at temperatures of up to 150°C, because that's the only way to really kill off every single kind of microorganism.

I'm not sure what the cleaning routine is with those coffee vending machines, but 85 degrees just won't be enough to keep out mold. And it's not unthinkable that some strains of mold could survive in a highly acidic environment. After all, if you leave used coffee filters in your machine at home for too long, they will very reliably also grow mold after a few days.
>> No. 414361 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 2:37 pm
414361 spacer
>>414345
>Anyway, all I have had in the last four hours was that one cup of coffee with milk which also came out of the machine.

Well, I will hazard a guess that it is just the roulette wheel you spun when you drank coffee on an empty stomach. Even tea has sent me a bit queasy once when I drank it hungry.

Next time stuff your face with cake.

>>414360
Well unless he is performing open heart surgery using a cup of coffee I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. Also, interesting thing is they don't only use extreme heat when sterilising medical equipment but also extreme pressured steam. Why they don't just use an extreme low to raise boiling points is anyones guess but the thing is even at these extremes it is not a case of exterminating all life but merely making what does survive being so weird it poses no threat to conventional biology.
>> No. 414365 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 4:10 pm
414365 spacer
>>414360

I know what you're saying, but that mold is typically penicillium anyway. You COULD get salmonella on the pipes, that's one of the most common ways it grows, but 85c is enough for salmonella. If not, the acid should get it.

I forget most of my food hygiene training, to be fair.

I forgot what the actual temperature is, but even 150c won't kill a lot of bacteria. I think you have to go 300+ to kill everything, though even then spore forming bacteria can survive that.
>> No. 414369 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 5:10 pm
414369 spacer
>>414365

I think my friend who works for that company said there are medical standards for hospitals that require surgical equipment to be treated at 121°C or above. So apparently, 121°C is good enough for hospitals to get rid of whatever pathogens might lurk on scalpels and all that. 150°C is the maximum temperature of most of their machines, the thermostats inside will just shut off the heating coils if it gets above that. I think the machines work with saturated steam and high pressure.
>> No. 414370 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 7:10 pm
414370 spacer
The problem with the machine saying 85°C is that it doesn't mean the milks that hot (if he did have milk in it). Even if the milk is being steamed to froth it it probably wont be heated much above 70, otherwise it loses it's sweetness and you'd have a bitter latte.

Also, the window for food poisoning tends to be that you start feeling ill around 8-10 hours after you last ate. Which makes a dodgy frozen pizza look more likely.
>> No. 414374 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 7:15 pm
414374 spacer
>>414360
>>414369

I work in a microbiology lab. We autoclave all our shit at 121 degrees, under 3-4 atmospheres of steam pressure. Temperature alone is no guarantee of sterility because you also need to denature prions etcetera.

Coffee machines are probably safe because the regular flow of liquid prevents any real build up of organisms. It's the same reason you want to run your taps at least once a week to prevent risk of legionella build up.
>> No. 414378 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 9:25 pm
414378 spacer
>>414374

> It's the same reason you want to run your taps at least once a week to prevent risk of legionella build up.

Doesn't tap water stay safe to drink because of the copper ions in the pipes?

But yeah, it's a good idea to run your taps for a minute or two if you haven't used them in a while. Either way, the water tends to get a little pongy.
>> No. 414382 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 10:28 pm
414382 spacer
>>414378

A lot of new build properties have plastic plumbing.

On a copper system, water could be sitting for some time in a plastic storage tank in the loft. I can see this posing a risk of microbial growth, particularly if the header tank has a poorly-fitting cover.
>> No. 414383 Anonymous
18th December 2017
Monday 10:50 pm
414383 spacer
>>414374
Why not just blast with UV-C?
>> No. 414393 Anonymous
19th December 2017
Tuesday 5:37 pm
414393 spacer
>>414383

Probably because they'd have to pay me a decent wage if I was at risk of radiation exposure, as opposed to just every pathogen under the sun.
>> No. 414394 Anonymous
19th December 2017
Tuesday 5:43 pm
414394 spacer
UV-C doesn't get into crevices like high pressure steam does.
>> No. 414395 Anonymous
19th December 2017
Tuesday 8:50 pm
414395 spacer
I didn't know that professional disinfecting involved high-pressure steam and I have been on a happy wiki-walk the past couple of days about prions. Thanks lads.
>> No. 414422 Anonymous
20th December 2017
Wednesday 3:49 pm
414422 spacer
>>414395

Just think of extremophiles that survive next to black smokers under 8,000 feet of water.

Some organisms tolerate even the harshest environments quite well. Then again, most bacteria will die at temperatures above 65°C. And that's also the temperature at which hot canteen and restaurant food must be kept at all times.

On the other hand, I have a sensitive stomach, and it has happened to me that when I went to the cafeteria at my old job right before closing, the hot food they served caused me occasional stomach problems. Either they weren't paying enough attention, or something just has to give when a chicken cordon bleu is kept at nominal serving temperature for four hours.
>> No. 414423 Anonymous
20th December 2017
Wednesday 4:04 pm
414423 spacer
>>414422
Yes I thought of those sea-based vents. Part of my interest around this is about using ozone generation, to air-disinfect a room or remove bad smells or mould. Amazon sell some o3 generators for about a hundred quid, which I've been thinking of getting. We have a couple of rooms in the house which have damp and are prone to mould and another place in the house which has been used by a smoker - I'm led to believe that o3 generation can be very effective at combating this.

My limited understanding is that o3 binds to bacteria and suchlike, breaks it apart and degrades to o2. Sounds perfect, but I'm no chemist/scientist. I have seen it used in fishtanks very successfully, I would like to extend the idea to real life.
>> No. 414424 Anonymous
20th December 2017
Wednesday 4:28 pm
414424 spacer
>>414423

The place where I have my car's air conditioning serviced every so often told me that when somebody asks to have their AC disinfected, they usually just start the engine, turn on the AC and spray a little bit of ordinary chlorine bleach into the AC air intake. The chlorine smell usually fades after a day or two if you don't overdo it, and customers mostly don't mind it, because they associate cleanliness with the familiar smell of sodium hypochlorite.

They also offer ozone treatments for the whole passenger compartment to eliminate odors, but they told me that that doesn't always get all the bad smells, and that the treatment may have to be repeated several times. Also, if you have spent years smoking inside your car, you will never fully be able to get rid of that smell with ozone.
>> No. 414425 Anonymous
20th December 2017
Wednesday 5:43 pm
414425 spacer
I'm about to start my Christmas shopping. If Toys R Us hasn't gone titsup earlier than expected, I should be done for the year within a couple of hours.
>> No. 414434 Anonymous
20th December 2017
Wednesday 7:47 pm
414434 spacer
>>414425
Surely you'd want to wait until they are just flogging the stock off to get rid of it?
>> No. 414443 Anonymous
20th December 2017
Wednesday 8:53 pm
414443 spacer
>>414434
It's the busiest time of year, the administrators will try and keep it going until New Year.
>> No. 414488 Anonymous
22nd December 2017
Friday 1:17 pm
414488 spacer
Fuck, what do I get my mum? She's a mid fifties professional who likes John Lewis and her dog. I can't do more photo frames and mugs. Looking to spend around 40-50.
>> No. 414489 Anonymous
22nd December 2017
Friday 2:07 pm
414489 spacer
>>414488

The Kindle Fire HD 8 is marked down to £50 at the moment.

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/7078736
>> No. 414492 Anonymous
22nd December 2017
Friday 4:25 pm
414492 spacer
>>414488
Hotel Chocolat, Lush, maybe some really nice tea (Tea Pigs) - make a stocking, thats kind of what I am doing.
>> No. 414510 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 10:54 am
414510 spacer
Is it amoral if I buy obvious counterfeits on eBay and then raise a complaint after the goods have been delivered to get a full refund?
>> No. 414512 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 12:33 pm
414512 spacer
>>414510
It's not even immoral.
>> No. 414513 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 1:04 pm
414513 spacer
>>414510
An aardvark is dead and you think it appropriate to embark on a scheme to defraud an honest retailer out of some dodgy trinkets. Shame!
>> No. 414514 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 1:30 pm
414514 spacer

255025_2c5160f7749247d0bbd9634d08aaa1b0_mv2.png
414514414514414514
>>414513
>an honest retailer

It's only Chinks and I wouldn't be able to claim it if they were better at making fakes.

Either way, it's meant I've been able to get the likes of Cards Against Humanity and Superfight for free - if you're prepared to overlook the odd grammatical error.
>> No. 414515 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 6:43 pm
414515 spacer
Why are people periodically setting off individual, massive, fireworks? It's annoying.
>> No. 414516 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 8:13 pm
414516 spacer
>>414515

Drug dealers.
>> No. 414517 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 8:26 pm
414517 spacer
>>414516

Tell me more.
>> No. 414518 Anonymous
23rd December 2017
Saturday 8:35 pm
414518 spacer
>>414516
>>414517

Imported Brazilian culture

http://www.dicionarioinformal.com.br/significado/fogueteiro/3293/
>> No. 414519 Anonymous
24th December 2017
Sunday 3:18 pm
414519 spacer
>>414518

"Global Britain" then?
>> No. 414934 Anonymous
6th January 2018
Saturday 8:45 pm
414934 spacer
I was going to meet up with my brother tonight, but he has to stay home and finish some work stuff.

He tells me his employer is increasingly adopting a management style of casual fascism.

His words, not mine.
>> No. 414975 Anonymous
9th January 2018
Tuesday 6:51 pm
414975 spacer
I ordered some lock picks at the weekend that arrived today. It's... scarily easy to pop locks with them. Satisfying too.
>> No. 414985 Anonymous
10th January 2018
Wednesday 8:13 pm
414985 spacer
>>414975
What set did you get?
>> No. 414986 Anonymous
10th January 2018
Wednesday 8:56 pm
414986 spacer
>>414985
One that cost about twenty quid from eventronic. I haven't got the hang of feeling out all the points like the people on youtube do but most of the real locks I can find are susceptible to raking.
>> No. 414987 Anonymous
10th January 2018
Wednesday 9:27 pm
414987 spacer
>>414986
I got quite good at picking yale style locks, but I'll be buggered if I can do the ones on my roof rack (the car came with it). I don't know if they're just all clagged up inside, or if I'm doing it wrong...
Blasted thing howls like a banshee at 70+, or if there's a crosswind.
>> No. 414988 Anonymous
10th January 2018
Wednesday 10:15 pm
414988 spacer
>>414975
It is very satisfying. I got a set of special picks that do round locks (bikes, vending machines, that kind of thing) for Xmas.
>> No. 414989 Anonymous
10th January 2018
Wednesday 10:30 pm
414989 spacer
>>414987

They're probably wafer locks. They're no more difficult to open than pin tumbler locks, they just require a slightly different technique.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIcKFr4x6S8
>> No. 415003 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 1:47 am
415003 spacer
I just got home from an evening spent consoling my best mate and getting drunk as fuck in the process.

Poor bastard. His girlfriend started shagging one of their neighbours a few months ago as he was gone a lot work-related. So then yesterday, she came clean to him about it during some sort of "we need to talk" thing.

It's unclear what will happen now; obviously, they have decided to split up. She wants to keep fucking her neighbour, and he wants to move out of their shared flat ASAP, which she will not be able to afford on her own. She has decided to stay with her parents for a few days "to think", while my mate is alone right now in the flat where his now-ex fucked somebody else.

It's all fucked up. What a slag. I have had a bad feeling about her ever since they started going out five years ago. And she did leave somebody else to be with him. I guess that's just her usual MO, as with a lot of women.
>> No. 415004 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 3:14 am
415004 spacer
>>415003
Was it really necessary to sign off that otherwise fine post with a casual bit of trout farming?
>> No. 415005 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 9:06 am
415005 spacer
>>415004
To be fair to the lad, it's what a lot of women do.

They'll stay in a relationship they're not happy with until they've got someone else lined up rather than be single. The relationship is already dead in her mind and the poor lad doesn't know what's going to hit him until she's suddenly shacked up with someone else.
>> No. 415006 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 1:14 pm
415006 spacer
>>415004

I also don't see how that is a troutfarmery comment at all. A significant number of women, more so than blokes anyway, really do have a habit of staying in a dead relationship just for the benefit of being with somebody, when they've really already moved on in their own mind and the poor lad just hasn't noticed and realised all the unspoken messages she has been sending. Which are always there, except they go under the radar of most blokes, because they're just not tuned into femal nonverbal communication.

On the other hand, if you've got good intuition and are sensitive to nonverbal communication in general, there is hope that you will see the signs. The times that a lass was about to leave me and then did leave me, I actually began noticing that all the little things were fading away in the run-up to the actual breakup. You know, just those little markers in the way a romantic partner behaves towards you, and stops behaving towards you when their spark is gone.

Maybe your relationship is already too far gone by that point anyway, when the cracks start to show like that. Then again, if you notice those signs early enough, you might still have a fighting chance to turn things around. The odds are against you though.
>> No. 415007 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 1:46 pm
415007 spacer
>>415006
Part of it is that on the whole men don't listen. Part of it is a perceived power imbalance where the woman may not feel she has sufficient agency to walk out without somewhere else to go.

That said, writing it off as womenfolk's "usual MO" is a bit bint-hatey.
>> No. 415008 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 2:04 pm
415008 spacer
>>415007
My three best friends are all female. One has done this on at least two occasions, another was extremely close to doing this but chickened out at the last minute (she seems to have a thing for abusive relationships) and the other hasn't done this but she's a bit mental in other ways.
>> No. 415010 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 2:10 pm
415010 spacer
>>415008
Cross-posting the standard advice from /emo/:

Avoid mental slags.


>> No. 415011 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 3:52 pm
415011 spacer
>>415003
>And she did leave somebody else to be with him.

Yeah, I'l add to the chorus that he only has himself to blame on this. If we could somehow do away with the compulsion to shag other peoples birds the world would be a better place for it.

>>415004
Get a proper hobby.

Or better yet realise that it is something both sexes do among their own and there is nothing meant by it. There is even a song about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu3FE7BswYI[/spoiler]
>> No. 415012 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 4:10 pm
415012 spacer
Spent a lot of the weekend watching Awesome Games Done Quick 2018, and a bunch of other speedrunning stuff. Seemed to be a disproportionately high number of transpeople at AGDQ. Wonder if there is a genetic link between people being trans and being autistic enough to speedrun.
>> No. 415013 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 4:38 pm
415013 spacer
>>415007

Surely the idea that 'on the whole men don't listen' is of the same category as 'bint-hatey'. That's carp-wrangling, at least.
>> No. 415014 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 4:56 pm
415014 spacer
>>415013
>Surely the idea that 'on the whole men don't listen' is of the same category as 'bint-hatey'.
Not at all. It's a factual observation and common knowledge that men are less able to pick up on and properly interpret such signals.
>> No. 415015 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 5:05 pm
415015 spacer
>>415012

People with ASD are a lot more diverse in terms of sexual orientation and gender expression. They're substantially more likely to be trans, bi, gay or asexual than the general population. Nobody has identified a plausible cause for this difference yet.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27872002
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29159906
>> No. 415016 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 5:23 pm
415016 spacer
>>415015
The name "autism" comes from the morbid fascination with oneself that was observed in early cases, so it makes sense on the face of it that high-functioning individuals on the spectrum are more likely to notice such differences and try to categorise themselves. It may be simply that the general population is simply less inclined to identify themselves as such, while those with ASD are less likely to be in the closet.
>> No. 415017 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 5:30 pm
415017 spacer
>>415014

I disagree and think you are a silly billy.
>> No. 415018 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 5:39 pm
415018 spacer
>>415017

That's okay. It's a free country, and you're perfectly entitled to be wrong.
>> No. 415019 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 5:43 pm
415019 spacer
>>415016

Eh, maybe, but I think the magnitude of difference is too great to be explained by that alone. In one study, nearly 70% of people with ASD identified as non-heterosexual. Rates of gender dysphoria and transgenderism may be as much as 100 times greater in people with ASD than in the general population.

The opposite of your proposal might be true. Children with ASD have no particular difficulty in identifying the gender of other people, but they're drastically less likely to be able to answer the question "are you a little boy or a little girl?". This is pure speculation on my part, but the apparent fluidity of gender and sexuality in people with ASD may be in part explained by a lack of self-insight. Alexithymia (an inability to identify or describe your own emotions) is a characteristic trait of ASD. They might be more inclined to experiment with sexual behaviour and gender expression, because it's harder for them to figure out their own preferences.
>> No. 415020 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 6:00 pm
415020 spacer

SidMeiers_Alpha_Centauri_PCFINAL.jpg
415020415020415020
>>415016
Anyone else ever wonder what humanity would look like if we we're all a bit more on the spectrum? I hope that in future when we're off sending people to colonise the galaxy they secretly run grand experiments on this sort of thing like in Fallout.
>> No. 415021 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 6:47 pm
415021 spacer

silicon-valley-map.jpg
415021415021415021
>>415020

>Anyone else ever wonder what humanity would look like if we we're all a bit more on the spectrum?
>> No. 415022 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 6:49 pm
415022 spacer

03f.jpg
415022415022415022
>>415021
>> No. 415023 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 10:05 pm
415023 spacer
>>415007

>Part of it is that on the whole men don't listen. Part of it is a perceived power imbalance where the woman may not feel she has sufficient agency to walk out without somewhere else to go.


Oh nonsense. Men listen. It's just that men can't be arsed to have to keep decoding the whole barrage of maybe-maybe-not information that a particularly chatty woman can and utter all day long. You get tired of having to sieve through all those spoken words in search of the one bit of actual information that counts. And it might not even be there in the first place, because it's hidden under layers of read-between-the-lines speak, a lot of which men's brains have simply not evolved to be able to parse. So then when a man is accused of not listening, more often than not it's not that he is incapable of comprehending a message that is spoken to him directly by another person, it's just that he has given up trying to make sense of what a woman is really trying to say.

Men generally use language more to transmit factual information. The more succinct, the better. Women often don't even know what they want to say or what bit of information they really want to transmit, or they dump a whole jumble of half thoughts on a man and leave the hapless chap to sort out the puzzle.

As for "agency", that's also nonsense. At least here in the developed world in Britain. I would quite understand the argument that a woman in Saudi Arabia is faced with having "no agency" if she even so much as attempts to leave an abusive husband. But this is present-day Britain, where girls are taught from an early age that women are really the stronger gender. Where it has never been easier for a woman to be the one to walk away from a no longer desired relationship.
>> No. 415024 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 10:09 pm
415024 spacer
>>415023
>keep decoding the whole barrage of maybe-maybe-not information that a particularly chatty woman can and utter all day long.
Or, as it's also known, listening.

>As for "agency", that's also nonsense. At least here in the developed world in Britain. I would quite understand the argument that a woman in Saudi Arabia is faced with having "no agency" if she even so much as attempts to leave an abusive husband. But this is present-day Britain, where girls are taught from an early age that women are really the stronger gender. Where it has never been easier for a woman to be the one to walk away from a no longer desired relationship.
Back to reddit with you, lad.
>> No. 415025 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 10:10 pm
415025 spacer

view-to-a-kill.jpg
415025415025415025
>>415021

Didn't Christopher Walken try to flood Silicon Valley?
>> No. 415026 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 10:14 pm
415026 spacer
>>415024

>Or, as it's also known, listening.

This is not what "listening" should be about.
>> No. 415028 Anonymous
14th January 2018
Sunday 11:01 pm
415028 spacer
>>415024

Expecting someone else to decipher undertones isn't a reasonable expectation of an understanding listener, it is expecting them to be a co-dependent to narcissism.

If you talked to a mental health professional and told them "I'm fine" they wouldn't waste time jumping through hoops trying to reveal the truth, they would just say "oh okay" and show you the door, I don't know why this is considered acceptable behaviour to use loved ones to feed an ego trip.
>> No. 415029 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 1:12 am
415029 spacer
>>415028

Thank you. Somebody has some sense on here.

You're not being a trout farmingst if you refuse to accept that it should be the man's fault, at least as a matter of principle, if he can't make heads or tales of what a woman is on about and he can't decode her utterances for their true meaning.

Women will do well, on the other hand, to recognise that men's brains are by and large just wired differently from their own, and that that is not a mark of male deficiency.

Otherwise, you're really no better than all the men in previous centuries who thought women were inherently deficient. Precisely because their brains were thought to be wired differently.
>> No. 415030 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 1:35 am
415030 spacer
>>415028
>If you talked to a mental health professional and told them "I'm fine" they wouldn't waste time jumping through hoops trying to reveal the truth, they would just say "oh okay" and show you the door
Yeah, and if you tell the police that sweet smell is just your new air freshener, they'll definitely take your word for it that you don't have pot.
>> No. 415031 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 5:59 am
415031 spacer
I keep telling you people, Men Are from Mars is unscientific bollocks, and so are these posts about women's/men's brains being 'wired differently' and how that justifies poor behaviour. There's just no evidence.
>> No. 415032 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 11:00 am
415032 spacer
>>415031


Oh do come off it, gendersciencelad. You and your lot are the Young Earth Creationists of behavioural science.

There is actually pretty solid evidence that men and women have differently wired brains.

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/more-evidence-that-male-and-female-brains-are-wired-differently

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-25198063


Enough already with that gender "science" nonsense, which only consists of taking loopy, preconceived notions and attempting to prove them in reality, which fails almost invariably, and then wanting to denigrate any solid scientific evidence as "biologisms" if it contradicts those notions and doesn't fit that world view.

Also, may I ask if you are somebody with quite limited relationship experience with the opposite sex? Anybody who has ever spent a considerable amount of time with an opposite-sex romantic partner can attest to the fact that women's (or men's) brains just function differently, and that it's quite hard to imagine that that's merely a result of culture and environment.
>> No. 415035 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 11:35 am
415035 spacer
>>415031

There is plenty of evidence demonstrating men and women are different. The most obvious being http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1997-sex-reassignment.html what makes the case more poignant is that the test subjects were originally used as the 'proof' that men and women are the same it is just conditioning until people stopped ignoring the test subjects pleas.

Gender reassignment surgery at birth to those with malformed genitals used to be considered fine, and best practice (because of the above study) defaulting to female because it is easier, until it was shown that the chromosomal males they did it to continues to act like males, despite being raised as girls and they unknowingly were disproportionately likely to want to transition to be men. I.e. Even men raised on Venus acted like Martians and wanted to return to Mars. http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1997-sex-reassignment.html

The issue is that there is a quite powerful political movement in academia who want the exact opposite to be true (they want gender to be a social construct) regardless of the evidence, and would rather the evidence didn’t exist, and will ignore it.
>> No. 415036 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 3:41 pm
415036 spacer
>>415035

>The issue is that there is a quite powerful political movement in academia who want the exact opposite to be true (they want gender to be a social construct) regardless of the evidence, and would rather the evidence didn’t exist, and will ignore it.


This is exactly the point. They believe that a relatively fixed concept of gender (despite all the cross-gender traits that particular test subjects might indeed have and which modern behavioural and genetic science will not really ever deny), is used to suppress anybody who isn't genetically male. And so by deconstructing the concept of gender, this perceived suppression is believed to eventually be overcome. That, and you've got a whole litany of other currents like reeducated millennial snowflakes in their echo chambers and filter bubbles, and genderqueers who cannot accept that what happens within minorities of the general population should probably not be declared majority standard.

I think it's a bit like radical fisherpersons in the late 60s and early 70s who believed the answer to ending women's suppression by Sea Shepherd Conservation Society was going to lie in the dissolution of the nuclear family. The better part of 50 years on, and the overwhelming majority of people still want to start a family with kids at some point in their lives, and live quite traditional lives as husbands and/or wives. As straight couples or maybe even as gay couples. Similarly, science doesn't cease to find clear and peer-reviewed evidence that behaviour is indeed quite largely influenced by the set of sex chromosomes that you are born with. It is going to be something that will just as much be a fixture in behavoural science as it will be observable fact for anybody who spends any amount of significant time with members of the opposite gender.

I think what has been happening in the case of anti-family radical fishing is that women's liberation was simply achieved down a different avenue than abolishing the nuclear family. And it stands to hope that in time, gender science, if it can be called science, will realise that there are better ways to achieve gender tolerance than to try to attack the idea of hardwired male and female behaviours which verifiably - affect the majority of the general population.
>> No. 415037 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 4:17 pm
415037 spacer
Again with the tedious gender politics, lads?
>> No. 415038 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 4:27 pm
415038 spacer
>>415037

Which side is being tedious though.
>> No. 415040 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 5:01 pm
415040 spacer
Whoops posted the same link twice, this should be the second link. https://www.hopkinsdrugs.org/Press_releases/2004/01_21_04.html
>> No. 415041 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 5:01 pm
415041 spacer
>>415040

Link is broken because of wordfilters, solving the problem is left as an exercise for the reader.
>> No. 415042 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 5:12 pm
415042 spacer
>>413694
I'm going on a march Saturday because I want Britian to be back British.
>> No. 415043 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 5:44 pm
415043 spacer
>>415042
I'd it not already British? Did it turn Russian while I wasn't looking or something?
>> No. 415044 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 5:50 pm
415044 spacer
>>415043
That would explain Lincolnshire.
>> No. 415045 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 8:51 pm
415045 spacer
>>415042
Wait what, when did we stop being British?
>> No. 415046 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 9:13 pm
415046 spacer
>>415042
There's a march on? Is it going to be a big one?

I do wish the media would announce such things in advance, perhaps have a bulletin board on the BBC website. I get why they don't because "protest to say we want less immigration" would probably bring down the government but what about those of us who are getting on the trains?
>> No. 415047 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 9:16 pm
415047 spacer

Carnival.png
415047415047415047
>>415042

Oh I love carnival time!
>> No. 415048 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 9:23 pm
415048 spacer
>>415046
If announcing the march would increase the numbers then more trains would be fuller and the trains that would be full anyway would be even worse.
>> No. 415049 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 9:44 pm
415049 spacer
>>415048
I think you're missing the part where I avoid taking the train on Sunday during the times when they will all be kicking about.

What if, after a heavy weekend, I decide that a pair of sunglasses would be comfortable only to discover that the march is for the blind of Britain! What if some lovely girl then takes me by the arm and leads me to the march, what if we fall in love? How long do you think I could keep up that charade?
>> No. 415050 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 9:56 pm
415050 spacer
Do you think otherlad has got confused with next March when we leave the EU? It seems like the kind of mistake a Brexiteer could easily make.
>> No. 415051 Anonymous
15th January 2018
Monday 10:39 pm
415051 spacer
>>415049
If they don't announce it then due to the smaller turnout the trains might be ok and then it's not a problem.

Return ] Entire Thread ] First 100 posts ] Last 50 posts ]
whiteline

Delete Post []
Password