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|>>|| No. 58249
1970s: "We've just landed on the moon, I bet we'll have colonies on other planets in a few decades!"
1980s: "Back to the future was awesome, I bet we'll have flying cars in a few decades!"
2017: Transport for London bans announcements using "ladies and gentlemen" in case it is offensive to people who are gender fluid.
What a time to be alive.
|>>|| No. 58251
Don't think I can bring myself to give a fuck.
|>>|| No. 58255
I'm a virtue p-way engineer, I don't touch virtue S&T.
One for the rail nerds, there.
|>>|| No. 58256
I'm race, age, gender, religious and sexually fluid. Currently I identify as a 6 year old Catholic lesbian girl, but the oppression sucks fucking dick so I will change soon.
|>>|| No. 58257
If I could take a moment to correct you OP it's not (only) for people who are genderfluid, but people of all genders that are not merely ladies or gentlemen.
Feel free to continue being angry about something being done to help others that doesn't affect you in any way, though. I genuinely mean that because it's very amusing to watch.
|>>|| No. 58259
>people of all genders that are not merely ladies or gentlemen
I assume you are referring to people who identify as attack helicopters as opposed to blokes who have 2 urethras and women with big clits. Would you prefer the phrase "ladies Gentlemen and mental health users" perhaps?
|>>|| No. 58260
>FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE BEING ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING BEING DONE TO HELP OTHERS THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY, THOUGH.
The 99.999999999% having to bend over backwards to accommodate the 0.000000001%, who probably don't give a fuck about this anyway.
|>>|| No. 58263
It's not bending over backwards though, is it? Someone changed one sentence in a staff handbook. Piece of piss.
The modern world is tailored in a million different ways to offer a little aid or courtesy to a small minority of the population. We carefully choose carpet patterns so as not to confuse people with dementia, we design control panels to be usable by people with colour blindness, we put prayer rooms in shopping centres, we offer vegan meals in prisons and hospitals, we give Jews the day off for Yom Kippur, we let eskimo coppers swap shifts during Ramadan. It's not the fall of western civilisation, it's just good manners.
|>>|| No. 58264
Precisely. If someone isn't a man or a woman, then don't address them as a man or a woman. Apparently this concept is making the poor posters above's brains melt.
|>>|| No. 58267
Birth defects. You didn't see people trying to class Thalidomide mutants as a separate species.
That's all it is. Birth defects. Do you know who tried classing them as a separate species? Hitler. What you're advocating leads to the slippery slope down to eugenics. Careful, lad. These hermaphrodites may be good at playing the oppression Olympics but I don't they'd be equipped to survive a Holocaust.
|>>|| No. 58269
Maybe it's just because I'm an airplane sort of wanker but I've always preferred "attention all passengers" anyway.
|>>|| No. 58270
Call me a traditionalist, but I don't see what's wrong with "OI OI, YOU LUCKY PEOPLE!".
|>>|| No. 58271
Lad. This is from the NHS:
>Disorders of sex development (DSDs) are a group of rare conditions where the reproductive organs and genitals don't develop as expected.
It's simply defective growth in the womb. The NHS even class it as a disorder. A disorder. The intersex societies are no different than a thalidomide victims support group; they both offer comfort and solace to the biological defects they were born with.
|>>|| No. 58272
Lovely swerve there, genuinely elegant cocksmanship. Double down on the "intersexed people are defective", then glide right past "treating them with respect is a slippery slope to the holocaust". It's like watching Peter Mandelson riding astride the shoulders of Jayne Torvill.
|>>|| No. 58273
London Underground staff don't have to be polite to Peter Mandelson, do they?
|>>|| No. 58274
All I'm saying is it's a double edged sword. If they do too well for themselves then we could end up with babies screened for defective genitals in the same way they're screened for Down syndrome and end up aborted en masse.
|>>|| No. 58275
We're all being polite to Peter Mandelson, by not stripping him naked, covering him in pork lard and parachuting him into IS-controlled territory.
|>>|| No. 58276
Do ISIS even have any territory these days? I've lost track of the whole thing, other that it being an irredeemable clusterfuck.
|>>|| No. 58277
>Stonewall said: "Language is extremely important to the lesbian, gay, bi and trans community, and the way we use it can help ensure all people feel included.
I had no idea these groups had a problem with being termed as ladies and gentlemen. does that mean If a man is gay he is not a gentleman?
I don't see how this helps people, we all know damn well what they mean and that there is no malicious intent involved in a traditional announcement. It's the LGBTAUTISM+ shit again because everyone has to be a snowflake.
>IF THEY DO TOO WELL FOR THEMSELVES THEN WE COULD END UP WITH BABIES SCREENED FOR DEFECTIVE GENITALS IN THE SAME WAY THEY'RE SCREENED FOR DOWN SYNDROME AND END UP ABORTED EN MASSE.
i ALWAYS ASSUMED THESE THINGS WERE SCREENED FOR DURING A PREGNANCY. Not to get them aborted per se but because if your child is going to be born with a disability or a mouth for an arsehole you want some advanced notice.
|>>|| No. 58279
>>58277 it's strange, but I find anyone who uses the term 'snowflake' instantly just loses any credibility in their argument and looks like a UKIP voter.
Not saying I disagree with you, just your use of the word makes you seem like a horrible person.
|>>|| No. 58280
>DOES THAT MEAN IF A MAN IS GAY HE IS NOT A GENTLEMAN?
Quite a lot of gay men have an issue with being lumped in with the gender benders because it has nothing to do with sexuality.
The most racist and intolerant people I know are gay.
|>>|| No. 58281
It's not like all these gender mentalists were made by us cis hetero scum in the first place.
|>>|| No. 58282
I was made by a team of Boeing engineers. I'm an Apache helicopter who sexually identifies as an argumentative prick.
|>>|| No. 58283
"Snowflake" is just a fashionable way of calling someone a crybaby. It's the kind of word used by people who "call a spade a spade" and publicly chastise their wives for being too fat, people who are desperate to be loved but too vulnerable to allow themselves to be loved.
|>>|| No. 58284
I was born with one kidney (a phenomena which although rare is much more more common than intersex).
You don't see me having a piss and moan about the insensitivity of medical textbooks portrayal of normal human anatomy and that they should have qualifiers saying 'but 1 kidney is fine too' demanding representation of more people like me in the media do you? because it is apparently insensitive for people to naturally presume I have 2 kidneys.
Lets not pretend the people who have a piss and a moan about this stuff is actually the intersex population. it is post structuralist feminist academics with too much time on their fucking hands and not enough real problems to complain about so they have to invent them. They are obsessed with genitals and saying they aren't obsessed with genitals, in no other situation would the tail wag the dog this badly, people would just say that's a stupid exception.
Also riddle me this. If gender is purely a social construct, why is getting surgery to look like a different gender a thing? that is by definition a contradiction.
|>>|| No. 58287
Oh my god you are shaming me or something. It's not gods fault now that I am less able it is yours because you drew attention to it, or men actually, lets just say it is men as a whole.
|>>|| No. 58289
The definition of overweight is also a social construct but you can get fat removal. If a nose is big or not is relative but you can still get that done.
|>>|| No. 58290
You're rather ironically getting mad at the word and not the context. The term snowflake might be popular with a certain demographic but it accurately encapsulates a childish narcissism found at the fringes of modern identity politics about constructing a special badge for themselves.
I can't call someone a crybaby now?
The best relationships I ever had were based around playful insults actually. What kind of sterile love-life are you leading where you can't even take the piss out of one-another?
|>>|| No. 58291
>THE DEFINITION OF OVERWEIGHT IS ALSO A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT
No it's not. There are objective international measurements on what overweight is much like we know that there are biological reasons behind transgenderism and homosexuality albeit they are still poorly understood.
|>>|| No. 58292
The definition of overweight is not objective because it's something people invented but happen to mostly agree upon. Even if everybody agreed on it, it still wouldn't be objective. It's just an arbitrary amount of body fat.
|>>|| No. 58293
It's not even an amount of body fat. It's literally just a number that you're supposed to use together with other things like waist size or blood pressure and shit.
|>>|| No. 58294
motorised transport is har'am
diesel is djinn in the translation from scholar abu aks ul tikbradi
pet ur ul shin shin balim :
'for they will become taxi drivers in Roth ul ram and see lo the young girl to be blessed'
|>>|| No. 58300
Unlike the sliding scale of body fat, as to at what point someone becomes too fat and is classified as obese, sex is objectively definable in great apes by the presence and absence of a collection of genes present on the y chromosome and the effects that has on the development of the body, in particular the gonads.
|>>|| No. 58301
>sex is objectively definable in great apes by the presence and absence of a collection of genes present on the y chromosome
This is true. I've definitely got all the genes for great sex going by your mum's reaction.
|>>|| No. 58304
>THE DEFINITION OF OVERWEIGHT IS NOT OBJECTIVE BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING PEOPLE INVENTED BUT HAPPEN TO MOSTLY AGREE UPON. EVEN IF EVERYBODY AGREED ON IT, IT STILL WOULDN'T BE OBJECTIVE. IT'S JUST AN ARBITRARY AMOUNT OF BODY FAT.
You could apply this logic to anything, the time you arrive at a destination is also subjective if you want to think about this too much. For the record the definition does change with facts like ethnicity.
We're not talking about sex but gender. If a biological male wants to identify with the ladies part of the message then it makes no difference.
|>>|| No. 58306
That men and women exist. The overweight comparison fails because being overweight is not socially constructed much as someone being transgender is not something you can just pass off as caused by society like we're living in some postmodernist hell.
|>>|| No. 58307
Weight is just a number, number of X or Y chromosomes or how big your feminine penis is are also numbers.
|>>|| No. 58311
I'm not convinced that Sex is not the same as Gender the people who argued for the change were not scientist but better equipped in cheap points scorning political arena. We might as well as well be asking the religious fanatics how they ‘feel’ about evolution and if the idea offends them and if they were the majority and not enough protest overrule it and start teaching the biblical account as the truth.
The trappings of gender may change from culture to culture, but you can't completely divorce the concepts of gender from sex without it being a nebulous term for a personality type, and we already have a name for that, it is called personality. It also opened the door for the ad infinitum absurdity that populates tumblr blogs. You may say identifying as an attack helicopter, or trans-ethnic, or therian is stupid? But why is it? If the person stating it wasn't being facetious
and believed it in the heart of hearts, who are you, or anyone to say it is wrong by the current criteria?
|>>|| No. 58312
Are you suggesting that because creationists are a product of evolution, despite their believing that they're creationists, they're actually evolutionists?
|>>|| No. 58314
>I'm not convinced
OK, what studies have you read that failed to convince you?
|>>|| No. 58316
>WEIGHT IS JUST A NUMBER
Tell that to the disabled toilet in 'spoons. I dare you.
|>>|| No. 58317
I have no problem telling anything to a toilet because it's a toilet and lacks eardrums and the ability to process language.
|>>|| No. 58318
clearly you haven't been paying enough attention to modern identity politics.
|>>|| No. 58319
What if I told you that they can but they have no mouth with which to scream. Connect the dots m8 there is free wi-fi at spoons and most of us are full of shit.
|>>|| No. 58326
Some people assigned female at birth turned out to identify as men... therefore transgender identities don't exist?
I don't quite follow, the men in the studies obviously felt enough like men in order to identify as men, so surely it is contradictory to believe that transgender people not feeling like their assigned gender is not also a legitimate expression of identity?
|>>|| No. 58330
There's plenty of fruitloops on the X Factor who identify as singers when they can't hold a note.
Identifying as something doesn't mean you're correct. Most people have an inaccurate image of themselves.
|>>|| No. 58343
I'm very annoyed about this, because 'hello everyone' sounds dumb.
They had two real choices: 1. Fallen London-esque 'Ladies, gentlemen, and individuals of mysterious and indistinct gender', or 2. 'Hello wage-slaves'.
I think the second choice is the only real one, in terms of brevity. I've been trying to construct a timetable of greetings for highest possible insult accuracy without much luck, but it should be possible. You can fit "Hello scroungers", "Hello wage-slaves", "Hello coffin-dodgers" in there.
|>>|| No. 58346
The same way that if I kept calling you a hippo and you kept on insisting you were not a hippo but a person it would be different from if I kept calling you a person and you told me you were not a person but a hippo.
That was not the point I was questioned on the question was 'why I thing gender and sex are linked and why I was not convinced that they are separate'.
The entire basis for modern gender politics *IS* a study into people assigned a different gender at birth (we even get the term 'gender role' from "An Examination of Some Basic Sexual Concepts: The Evidence of Human Hermaphroditism"). Otherwise it is meaningless political conjecture of continental philosophers with no basis in reality to suggest that gender and sex aren't linked, you need an experiments that demonstrates that if you raise boys as girls they behave wholly as girls which is what that experiment was for, and the false positive of that experiment is why we have gender reassignment surgery.
When those studies demonstrate the opposite (like when the test case for ‘The Evidence of Human Hermaphroditism’ turned around and said "no I am a man, and raising me as a woman was abusive") it undermines significant parts of philosophy that gender and feminist theory and our approach to gender reassignment is built upon.
The crucial detail here is that the people in "for "Discordant Sexual Identity in Some Genetic Males with Cloacal Exstrophy Assigned to Female Sex at Birth" did not choose to be a different gender from the sex they were born but sort it out in significantly greater quantities than the background level of transitioning a lack of encouragement (even 1 in the 14 the sample would have been a greater proportion than normal, but a possible outlier, but it was more than 50%, and the ones that remained girls, behaved to the observer 'like boys' is a significant trend) back to their 'correct' gender and sex.
This means that the idea that gender is nurture and a social construct ceases to have validity, and the conclusion that gender roles are nature not nurture becomes the reality, that sex *IS* gender and are inseparable from one another, and to impose different from biological sex is by definition incorrect. It undermines the very political consensus that dominates multiple social sciences at their core by making their core premises demonstrably false. It makes gender fluid an impossibility.
It also makes being trans a questionable outlier. It throws an awful lot of weight on the argument the individual is by definition mistaken and mentally ill if they believe themselves to be something they aren't as opposed to a person trapped in a body of the wrong gender.
I realise to most people the idea of sex and gender being separate is a 'so what big deal' but it has had huge effect on people born with genital defects. Because it means people are raised as the sex and gender that they are, rather than as a social experiment for trying to prove (falsely) that gender is just a social construct by raising them the wrong way round.
|>>|| No. 58348
I'm finding it difficult to follow your ramblings but again you seem to be arguing against a strawman; I really don't see the relevance of experiments with hypotheses relating to gender being a question of how someone is raised, because if that was really how gender is formed, transgender people wouldn't exist, as virtually all of them are raised as a gender they go on to reject.
You insist that gender is sex, and yet there are many thousands of transgender people existing openly today as evidence contradicting this absolute. Studies on transgender brains, for instance, show that they exhibit the expected differences found in the cis brains of the gender they identify as - needless to say they didn't have magnetic resonance imaging at the time of An examination of some basic sexual concepts. And once you accept that your gender can vary depending on your brain structure, focusing on chromosomes and genitalia becomes totally superficial.
In the meantime I think you need to get your head out of John Money. Nobody seriously argues that there are no behaviours biologically inherent to one's gender identity. It's a combination of nature and nurture. The truth around sex and gender behaviours is complex and subject to ongoing study, but to deny trans identities entirely is just unjustified bigotry and wholly unscientific.
There are individuals roaming the streets with the faces of squid! Squid!
|>>|| No. 58349
They're just outcasts basically.
Some people look to fulfill this by shitposting on imageboards, some by becoming a suicide bomber, others by focusing their attention on pretending to be a different gender. That's why so many who have a sex change regret it afterwards, they've taken it too far when all they wanted was a little subculture to fit in and accept them.
|>>|| No. 58352
>Nobody seriously argues that there are no behaviours biologically inherent to one's gender identity
Well they are. I don't really know what else to tell you other then that they exist in the facilty of every university in the land, writing papers based on that premise.
|>>|| No. 58356
IS OP SOMEHOW IMPLYING THAT THE TFL ANNOUNCEMENT GUIDELINES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF PERSONAL AIRBORNE TRANSPORTATION AND SPACE TRAVEL?
|>>|| No. 58357
It's interesting to see what happens if you take OP's concept of popular expectations degrading over time and extend them further back.
1400s: The world is full of sin and we're about to see the final judgement where god takes us all up to heaven, the universe is going to end.
100bc: Zeus is a dick lol
300BC: We're about to enter the silver age then following that is the next golden age.
3000BC: OH FUCK ANUBIS
|>>|| No. 58360
That's a bit of an oversimplification lad.
The French aristocrats were degenerate and this precipitated the French Revolution. See the writings of Marquis De Sade for further information.
The Roman Empire was rife with degeneracy at it's peak and ultimately this lead to its decline and fall.
Before that degeneracy in the Greek Empire led to its decline and fall.
Today what we're seeing is peak degeneracy in the western world. This Pax Americana empire. Transgenderism and its like didn't previously exist because these peoples didn't have access to hormones and surgery and were rebelling against a much more conservative norm, but rest assured that otherkin would have been a thing in all these degenerate empires had they access to the information and technology that we do today.
|>>|| No. 58362
>rest assured that otherkin would have been a thing in all these degenerate empires had they access to the information and technology that we do today.
'Otherkin' by a fairly broad stroke exist in most cultures all the time. What do you think spirit animals are?
|>>|| No. 58363
>'Otherkin' by a fairly broad stroke exist in most cultures all the time. What do you think spirit animals are?
Spirit animals are like guardian angles. Other kin believe they are a different creature on a spiritual level.
What you are doing is the spiritual equivalent of believing your mate to be his dog.
|>>|| No. 58364
How is that weirder than believing and angel is following you around looking out for you? Otherkin is just a different perspective of the self; angels are inventing entirely new beings that for some reason think we're special. I suggest you look up the Buid and the Dinka peoples who believe something to the effect that pigs and children are the same thing as too are birds and dead people.
>what you are doing
Fuck off with that sly insinuation that I'd have to be otherkin to defend it in this way.
|>>|| No. 58365
It isn't weirder it just isn't the same thing you retard.
You've changing your premises from 'these are the same' to 'these have the same value in a property'.
What you are doing is licking your own arse and calling it chocolate. They might both be brown but you are still just a shit eating dogkin.
|>>|| No. 58366
Better a stranger on the Internet make nonsense inferences about me than be a moron.
|>>|| No. 58367
You're having this debate in Comic Sans, you pricks.
|>>|| No. 58369
THE TRANS COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN GETTING THEIR KNICKERS IN A TWIST ABOUT JOHN BARROWMAN CALLING HIMSELF THE TRANSGENDER TARDIS WHILST WEARING THIS DRESS.
I THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE. TRANS PEOPLE ARE REALLY UPTIGHT AND PERCEIVE EVERYTHING AS A SLIGHT AND EVERYONE WHO ISN'T TRANS AS THE ENEMY.
|>>|| No. 58370
>That's a bit of an oversimplification lad.
>The Roman Empire was rife with degeneracy at it's peak and ultimately this lead to its decline and fall.
/iq/ may be for silly nonsense, but OP chose to classify gender rights as silly nonsense, therefore he deserves to be challenged.
|>>|| No. 58371
Is replacing the term "ladies and gentlemen" with "hello everyone" a gender right?
Should the term be outright banned? Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
|>>|| No. 58372
>Is replacing the term "ladies and gentlemen" with "hello everyone" a gender right?
You have the right to have your identity acknowledged and validated, and the term 'ladies and gentlemen' does not acknowledge those who are neither ladies nor gentlemen.
It's like if you were a male nurse, and every time the matron enters the ward she says 'gather round girls'. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable if she switched to 'gather round everyone'?
>Should the term be outright banned?
Of course not. But if you wanted to be sensitive to this inclusivity issue then you might consider only using it if you were certain everyone you were addressing was a lady or a gentleman.
>Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
I had to look this up and even then I don't understand its relevance. If you're trying to say this isn't important, then yeah, this change in language is very small act. It's not going to prevent people committing suicide in and of itself. But it makes a big difference in the lives of the people it effects, who have to put up with having their identity erased virtually every day of their lives, and internalise that doubt and loathing.
|>>|| No. 58373
>EVERYTHING AS A SLIGHT AND EVERYONE WHO ISN'T TRANS AS THE ENEMY.
Because it usually is and they usually are when you're trans. They already have enough of a problem being taken seriously without Barrowman taking the piss, albeit without ill intent.
|>>|| No. 58375
The TARDIS is female. By dressing up in a TARDIS dress he is being a transgender TARDIS.
I can't imagine living life not being able to lighten up and taking offence at everything.
|>>|| No. 58376
I don't get the hate for trannies at all. Sure, you can't get DAB on them but otherwise they do the job.
|>>|| No. 58377
Depends what you call hatred.
Because there are a lot of people who think they are just mentally ill, and that transitioning is fundamentally impossible. Which from the outside isn't hatred, but I imagine when you are a tranny sounds like the devaluing rhetoric of someone who hates them.
|>>|| No. 58378
Something that helped me better think about this issue was to consider whether gender and sex could be separate. It seems that gender is a social construct, a concept, in that it only exists as an idea whereas sex actually exists in our biology.
Heh, gonads actually exist.
|>>|| No. 58382
Well, quite - it may be a fact that I have a willy or that I have a Y chromosome, but it's not a fact that I am a 'man', because what constitutes a man is a social construct.
|>>|| No. 58384
I tried, but when I said I was stuttering, he said I must be faking it coz I'm mentally ill or summat.
|>>|| No. 58387
I think a not insignificant number of people who've had a sex change have regretted it afterwards. Something about it turning out the actual underlying issues they have aren't to do with having the old genital switcheroo and they'd manage to delude themselves it was.
|>>|| No. 58392
I guess that's why they make you go to a shrink first here, so you can get checked before you get wrecked.
|>>|| No. 58394
I'd say what constitutes the generally held idea of 'man' is a social construct.
Thats not to say I think it should change, I'm just being pedantic. We seem to be doing okay now assuming a male looking person is in fact 'a man' and acts generally speaking how we imagine men to act, but I suppose considering the typical male role (as in, 'mans') seems to be changing in our society, maybe its just an old form that needs to be modernised. Its just this whole "Did you just assume my gender" thing supposedly going on elsewhere seems petty and unnecessary. Its like the generation want to be offended.
We'll get the right touch eventually. As someone here pointed out, good old British manners will find the way.
|>>|| No. 58396
The young want the old to think they're offended as a pretext for a Logan's Run style purge of the fogies that keep fucking everyone else over.
|>>|| No. 58397
Sometimes you get white people identifying as black, or as Dolphins or toasters. I guess the issue is whether or not the identity interferes in the lives of others.
|>>|| No. 58398
I'm thinking I might start identifying as a transaged 9 year old. Those were good times, and also a 9 year old can't be done for anything, not even running an unlicensed lemonade stand.
|>>|| No. 58401
>I THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE. TRANS PEOPLE ARE REALLY UPTIGHT AND PERCEIVE EVERYTHING AS A SLIGHT AND EVERYONE WHO ISN'T TRANS AS THE ENEMY.
I can say that this is definitely the case with all transgender people I have ever had any kind of interaction with. One in particular was massively insufferable and assumed that people had a problem with her being trans when in fact she was just a total cunt of a person. In addition to what the above poster said, I'd add a caveat that (again based on trans people I've known) that they all have some sort of legitimate underlying mental health issues or problems in their lives, have gone trans thinking that's the solution, then discovered it isn't and that just makes them bitter
|>>|| No. 58402
>One in particular was massively insufferable and assumed that people had a problem with her being trans when in fact she was just a total cunt of a person.
General problem with minorities, I'm afraid. "Is it coz I is black" syndrome.
|>>|| No. 58403
One of the trannies I know is incredibly racist.
At first I thought it was because Gays and that sometimes like to be offensive for shock value, like when John galliano thought he was saying something ever so outrageous about Jews and it backfired terribly, but it turns out they're simply a massive cunt.
|>>|| No. 58404
I might have agreed with you but I met a(nother) trans couple recently and one of them one of the is the nicest people I've ever met. Legitimately lovely.
|>>|| No. 58405
And this is the world I'm fighting for. A world where the trannies and the blacks and the Chineses can all hate one another equally, together, a better world. Sort of.
|>>|| No. 58406
I think it greatly improves the quality of the debate.
They are consistently some of the rudest, most aggressive people on the internet. Does them no favours.
|>>|| No. 58407
Most trans people want nothing more than to be invisible. They don't want to be perceived as trans, but just as another ordinary man or woman. Self-appointed trans advocates therefore tend to be utterly unrepresentative.
Trans women are massively over-represented in my field (theoretical computer science), so I know a fair few trans women both professionally and personally. With the exception of one, they're absolutely delightful.
|>>|| No. 58408
>Most trans people want nothing more than to be invisible.
What a bloody lie.
|>>|| No. 58409
Exactly. I've never met anyone who literally wants to be invisible. Except perhaps sexual deviants who want to perve on people.
|>>|| No. 58410
>>58407 TRANS WOMEN ARE MASSIVELY OVER-REPRESENTED IN MY FIELD (THEORETICAL COMPUTER SCIENCE)
Cambridge? Or is it a widespread thing? I agree with you, though, nothing particularly shouty or annoying about the trans compscis / mathmos I know / work with.
|>>|| No. 58412
To be expected, given how the field is dominated by men. Many of them are oddballs so it's not a surprise that more of them want to pretend to be girls than the wider population.
|>>|| No. 58416
In the mathematical sciences, either your work is provably correct or provably false, with no grey area for subjective judgement. This acts as a natural barrier against discrimination and prejudice - you can't argue with a proof and you can't bullshit a compiler. You don't need funding or access to equipment to work in our field, just a piece of paper and a brilliant mind. Someone with zero social capital can put up a paper on ArXiv and earn themselves a Fields medal or an ACM Turing prize.
We pride ourselves on this. We celebrate diversity and eccentricity not for its own sake, but as a symptom of a genuinely meritocratic field that is constantly pushing at the boundaries of human understanding. Ordinary minds just don't cut it in the mathematical sciences.
Applied computer science is an extension of that culture, with the added incentive of unimaginably vast sums of money. If you don't hire on merit alone, the odds are fairly good that you'll be run out of business by someone who does.
|>>|| No. 58417
>>58416 I wonder if that simple acceptance (and not really caring much, having seen it all before) makes for an environment where people don't feel the need to go down the shouty/drama route so much, and just get on with transitioning?
Thinking about it, I suspect there's less personal and interpersonal drama all round. The office politics threads on here don't really describe this place.
|>>|| No. 58418
Trans people really are pissy.
Apparently some prominent bloke, whom I've never heard of, saying "transgender people show more courage when they leave their houses in the morning than Donald trump has shown in his entire life" because of the whole no trannies in the army thing is problematic and "borne of the bigotry of low expectations".
Seriously, don't try and support them because they'll only get offended.
|>>|| No. 58420
>"transgender people show more courage when they leave their houses in the morning than Donald trump has shown in his entire life"
To be fair, so does literally everyone else not called Trump.
|>>|| No. 58423
Because its full of mentally ill people.
I wish trannies didn't exist. It'd be nicer if i could just block knowledge of their existence out of my head altogether.
|>>|| No. 58424
It is a pretty fucking patronising statement though. The SJW lot coined the irritating but useful term "othering" - being too nice about a minority group can marginalise them just as effectively as being too nasty. A positive stereotype is still a stereotype, it still reduces a whole group of people to a two-dimensional image that fits someone else's world view. The magical negro and noble savage tropes are just as damaging as a lot of overtly racist ideology.
A lot of disabled people were quietly relieved when Oscar Pistorius shot his girlfriend. It put a lid on the whole post-2012 "inspirational" rhetoric and reminded the world that disabled people are equally capable winning medals and being total cunts.
|>>|| No. 58425
What's a magical negro then?
Is it like Morgan Freeman's character in robin hood: prince of thieves?
|>>|| No. 58426
Isn't transgenderiteism classified as a mental illness in the American psychiatric diagnostic manual? The military doesn't let in people who suffer from mental illnesses like depression or schizophrenia so why should they treat the trannies any differently?
|>>|| No. 58428
The DSM also categorised homosexuality as a mental disorder until 1987.
Yep. A black character who solves the problems of the white lead through homespun wisdom or mystical powers. The big guy in The Green Mile, Bagger Vance, Morpheus in The Matrix, Lamont in American History X. They have no particular backstory or character, but exist solely as a kind of deus ex machina.
|>>|| No. 58430
>MORPHEUS IN THE MATRIX
Yea fuck off. Morpheus was a character. Not a black character. You are being racist right now.
|>>|| No. 58432
hes black though so by default useless. luckily the benevolent white man rose him up.
|>>|| No. 58434
>When the vet came back and said she thought Molly could be a hermaphrodite, I didn’t realise what she meant; I started crying, assuming she was referring to another form of cancer.
|>>|| No. 58528
This is Britain’s first gender-fluid family.
They are raising four-year-old Star Cloud as a ‘person’ and are telling him to ‘not get hung up’ on being a boy.
Parents Nikki and Louise Draven say they are ‘just ordinary’ and are being ‘who they want to be’.
Star calls Louise, 31, his mummy, but she is in fact his biological father and is transitioning to become a woman with hormone treatment.
Louise has felt she was a girl from the age of eight, and has been living as a woman since a year before Star’s birth.
While Star’s daddy is pansexual Nikki, 30, who was born a woman and is his biological mother. Nikki will dress as a woman on some days and will dress as a man on others.
The parents want Star to be free to wear make-up, paint his nails, wear girls or boys clothes and play with dolls if he wants to.
In September, he will go to school for the first time and will wear a boy’s uniform, but with a pink vest and socks. Nikki said: ‘We don’t want our child constrained by that either. We’re just an ordinary family being who we want to be.
‘We never tell Star he’s a boy, we tell him he can be whatever he wants. We don’t buy gender specific toys or clothes and we let him choose what he wears. Pink is one of his favourite colours.’
The family has already experienced exterior pressures on Star, with other children at his nursery telling him that he can’t play with dolls as they are for girls. Nikki said: ‘We sat him down and explained that anyone can play with dolls and that it’s good practice for when he grows up and is a daddy. He said, ‘I might not be a daddy – I might be a mammy!’
Urgh. saying mammy. How common.
Whenever these articles crop up about raising a gender neutral child it's always a boy they're doing it to.
|>>|| No. 58529
I fully support their raising their child without the constraints of predefined gender. I fully oppose their naming him 'Star Cloud'. Fucking hell.
|>>|| No. 58530
Jesus. I think there's a huge problem with this and that's the fact that there are differences between the genders, and to be so intensive in assuring your child blurs them is just bad parenting.
Sure, let the kid do whatever it feels like, play with barbies or wear a skirt or whatever the fuck, but don't sit it down and tell it not to bother being a boy - you're just starting to discourage his natural behaviour for your own ends.
My parents let me dress up like a cat and go to the shops, they even made me a tail and shit. But if they'd sat me down and said, listen son, if you want to be a cat, then you ARE a cat, I think I'd be a disturbed malcontent by this point.
|>>|| No. 58531
>don't sit it down and tell it not to bother being a boy
Sorry, where have they done that, exactly? I can see they are quoted as not wanting him to be 'hung up on' being a boy but that's not the same thing.
|>>|| No. 58532
That's the bit I'm referring to. Maybe I'm over reaching with it, but that's what it sounds like to me. I have experience with these sorts of activists and I worry that they're pressured, whether directly or indirectly, into being something they're not, which obvioiusly is exactly what they're trying to avoid in the first place. Kids pick up on what their parents want though, no matter if they state it explicitly or not.
Maybe I'm just more conservative than I thought, but something creeps me out about it. Like the ten year old drag queen with his mum doing his makeup etc that was posted recently. It feels forced on some level. I suppose if the child is happy that doesn't really matter in the long run.
|>>|| No. 58534
>Whenever these articles crop up about raising a gender neutral child it's always a boy they're doing it to.
That's because raising a tomboy isn't newsworthy.
|>>|| No. 58535
Does anyone else feel like these kind of activists always fall into a reverse Henry Ford? 'you can identify as anything you like as long as it's not a heterosexual cis male'.
|>>|| No. 58536
Sorry mate but I think you just have some internalised transphobia. I'm not saying you hate trans people, but you are exhibiting behaviours that make it more difficult for trans people to come out, i.e. this weird suspicion that trans parents are pressuring their children into adopting a trans identity, even though there's absolutely no evidence that that is happening. It's the same reason gay people weren't allowed to adopt, because society thought they'd try and 'convert' said children into their unnatural sexual perversions.
I mean you're right that there is more going on in a parent-child relationship that can be superficially analysed by an outsider, and children can be or feel pressured into doing things that they don't want, but to assume this is happening just because two people say they aren't going to impose gender norms on their child is plainly transphobic.
This cunt >>58535 is on a whole other level though.
|>>|| No. 58537
>THIS WEIRD SUSPICION THAT TRANS PARENTS ARE PRESSURING THEIR CHILDREN INTO ADOPTING A TRANS IDENTITY
That's how it looks from here.
I remember watching a see hear programme on the BBC a few years back at some ungodly hour when I couldn't sleep. It was a deaf couple and they were going on about how glad they are that their children are also death, but the way they talked about it was really fucked up.
By all means let your kid wear what they want and play how they want, but don't push a whole gender narrative and fill their mind full of nonsense. Don't fucking call them star cloud.
|>>|| No. 58538
Doesn't everyone push a whole gender narrative on their kids? This seems a bit of a fish denying the existence of water thing.
|>>|| No. 58539
Not explicitly, no.
Little star cloud here does boy things and then he does girl things, whilst being told that he can flip between the two because he's fluid. Most kids just do things because they're a child and that's what they do without thinking of the wider gender ramifications of it.
Anyway I think it is the father, the one playing mummykin in all this, who is pushing it. His hefty wife has decided to go along for the ride and opted for a minimum effort, half-arsed "some days I wear men's clothes" which most people don't notice because she slobs around in hoodies and baggy clothes the rest of the time already.
|>>|| No. 58540
Parents often explicitly push their children towards activities their gender traditionally do. You can't deny that in good faith.
|>>|| No. 58541
They don't do it explicitly. They may be herded a certain way, but they most definitely aren't sat down and have gender roles explained to them. Many parents know their child goes through phases they'll grow out of.
Normal parent: child does activity, a big deal isn't made out of it.
Star cloud parent: child does activity, this must be clearly defined to him as a "boy activity" or a "girl activity" and we'll let him know he can switch from doing "boy" things or "girl" things because he's fluid. Nothing can be a gender neutral child activity, it must be pigeonholed.
|>>|| No. 58542
What a load of rubbish. Certain toys and behaviours are pushed on girls and others on boys. They are explicitly pushed towards these things even if it's not a case of being sat down and having a conversation about it. Our culture is infused with these patterns. Your idea of a 'normal' parent may be an ideal but is not what the majority of parents do.
|>>|| No. 58543
It's an unfortunate side-effect of our current level of social development. We're aiming towards a society that is gender-blind, but our current society is full of subtle and implicit prejudice. In order to progress towards a society in which gender doesn't matter, we end up being hyper-conscious of gender stereotypes for a while.
The whole argy-bargy over trans people is a symptom of this. It's always about trans women rather than trans men, because cis women have a very broad range of acceptable gender expression. A woman dressing in a masculine way is utterly unremarkable, so nobody notices transmen who don't quite pass - they just get coded as tomboys or butch lesbians.
Cis men don't have the same range of acceptable options, so it becomes an either/or - if you're not obviously presenting as male, then you're a transwoman. Ultimately we'll reach a point where there's nothing remarkable about seeing a man wearing a dress and lipstick, but the road to that destination will be paved with a lot of Facebook rants and thinkpieces in the Guardian and the Daily Mail. Within a generation or two, nobody will understand why we made such a big fuss about it.
|>>|| No. 58545
>I REMEMBER WATCHING A SEE HEAR PROGRAMME ON THE BBC A FEW YEARS BACK AT SOME UNGODLY HOUR WHEN I COULDN'T SLEEP. IT WAS A DEAF COUPLE AND THEY WERE GOING ON ABOUT HOW GLAD THEY ARE THAT THEIR CHILDREN ARE ALSO DEATH, BUT THE WAY THEY TALKED ABOUT IT WAS REALLY FUCKED UP.
Nobody talks about it but deaf parents are known to refuse to allow their children to get Cochlear Implants that allow them to hear under the logic (I shit you not) that being deaf is not a disability. Then there is the whole situation of selective abortion to ensure your child is born disabled.
It's a fucked up world where the police are still tackling parents hacking off their daughter lady-parts. I can't help but feel as if we took a wrong turn somewhere.
And there is also scientific proof that the genders are different. If you want to be a horrific tranny monster then fair enough but don't cry when people notice you projecting your gender dysphoria onto a child.
|>>|| No. 58547
What is causing that horrific belly separation with his Mrs. Is she trying to cover it up with a belt?
|>>|| No. 58548
Careful now or you'll only end up justifying hacking your dick off as a logical solution. Genders are different in more ways than just the sex organ and outward appearance.
|>>|| No. 58549
If people can't carry weight well they effectively end up with two bellies.
|>>|| No. 58551
Maybe you're right. I certainly have no desire to be transphobic. I do wonder if my reaction would be the same if a CIS couple were saying these things. It's hard to tell. I don't want to be part of the problem, and obviously my reservations are confined strictly to the shitposting portion of this imageboard.
|>>|| No. 58556
>This cunt >>58535 is on a whole other level though.
I've met too many fruit loops who politicized the sexuality of their dog ("my dog is gay", not that the dog has demonstrated any homosexual taste ever). That I accept that as a badge of honour.
I refuse to accept that these parents have anything other then trying to get their child to be non-conformist in mind. I imagine them rewarding every time they say the 'right thing' "it's so wonderful you are gay, lets have a coming out party", against passive aggressive "oh well if you want to be straight THAT'S fine, it is your body after all, do what every you want, it's your choice". I assume there will be ample helpings of male and cis bashing served at the diner table along with the potatoes.
It reminds me heavily of religion in my house growing up, I was supposed to 'make up my own mind' with heavy emphasis on me following my parents belief, and utter distaste and rejection of me and my ability to form an opinion when I became atheist.
I just hope the child doesn't get pushed into something irreversible before they have formed their own opinion, transitioning when you don't really want to transition psychologically fucks people up, and this seems like the kind of environment where they would do it just for validation from their parents.
|>>|| No. 58557
I read an article in biomedical scientist claiming that ignoring gender bias in neuroscience research and neuropsychology is deeply harmful to women, because it means that the real physiological differences in brain function are generalised based upon research applicable to men and assumed to be applicable to women by default.
Food for thought when you have all these muskets bleating about gender being a social construct and what have you. It's a noble goal they have but reality doesn't agree with them, and they could potentially do more harm than good.
|>>|| No. 58560
If anything it's funny because the kids are more likely to turn out the opposite when they hit that tender teenage phase of rebellion against anything and everything. Like those lads with super macho dad's who invariably turn out gay or such as yourself, turning out atheist because of the pressure from your religious parents.
These poor kids are going to grow up utterly homophobic because of their mentalist trandqueergenderplural parents.
|>>|| No. 58561
Trans people have more experience than anyone else what it is like to be coerced into conforming to expectations of gender. I see no reason why they would want to put their children through exactly the same horror.
|>>|| No. 58563
I wouldn't call my being atheist teenage rebellion, but I take your point.
That's exactly the kind of bullshit logic >>58424 was talking about. That's like saying the Israelis would never mistreat and discriminate against the Palestinians because of the holocaust. Or that Black people (or Nignogs as a trans friend is fond of calling them) are incapable of being racists.
No Transgender people are just as big of cunts as the rest of us, only with potentially a chip on the shoulder that makes it harder to moderate their behavior. Very few people have the self awareness to reflect upon their own behavior and view things from the outside without someone guiding them to do so, and there is no correlation between being trans and being that self aware.
|>>|| No. 58564
>THERE IS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN BEING TRANS AND BEING THAT SELF AWARE
The trans-folk I know live in a bubble and magnify issues that most people really don't give a shit about.
For example, the way they used to go on about that someone in that power bottom band was accused of sexual harassment you'd have thought it was major headline news akin to war breaking out or something like that.
|>>|| No. 58566
How dare you belittle gender dismorphics by equating them to a nice interest. Next you'll be telling me the suffragettes were little more than bored housewives looking for something to fill the time and garner attention from their husbands.
I bet you're one of those false allies, who pretends to be on someone's side but is always patronising them and perpetuating ignorance.
|>>|| No. 58570
The BBC for churning out this shite. No academic rigour at all going on, no discussing the contradictory physical evidence from the field of neurobiology, instead we just get the vacuous 'some psychologists' and a BBC presenter grinning at children.
I know Hjernevask is often exploited but it does a good job of pointing out this kind of methodology where ideas are presented as quirky and oh so obviously correct. On television it doesn't get people interested in the topic and unless you're already a convert it's going to get your back up no matter who you are.
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