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|>>|| No. 58249
1970s: "We've just landed on the moon, I bet we'll have colonies on other planets in a few decades!"
1980s: "Back to the future was awesome, I bet we'll have flying cars in a few decades!"
2017: Transport for London bans announcements using "ladies and gentlemen" in case it is offensive to people who are gender fluid.
What a time to be alive.
|>>|| No. 58251
Don't think I can bring myself to give a fuck.
|>>|| No. 58255
I'm a virtue p-way engineer, I don't touch virtue S&T.
One for the rail nerds, there.
|>>|| No. 58256
I'm race, age, gender, religious and sexually fluid. Currently I identify as a 6 year old Catholic lesbian girl, but the oppression sucks fucking dick so I will change soon.
|>>|| No. 58257
If I could take a moment to correct you OP it's not (only) for people who are genderfluid, but people of all genders that are not merely ladies or gentlemen.
Feel free to continue being angry about something being done to help others that doesn't affect you in any way, though. I genuinely mean that because it's very amusing to watch.
|>>|| No. 58259
>people of all genders that are not merely ladies or gentlemen
I assume you are referring to people who identify as attack helicopters as opposed to blokes who have 2 urethras and women with big clits. Would you prefer the phrase "ladies Gentlemen and mental health users" perhaps?
|>>|| No. 58260
>FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE BEING ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING BEING DONE TO HELP OTHERS THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY, THOUGH.
The 99.999999999% having to bend over backwards to accommodate the 0.000000001%, who probably don't give a fuck about this anyway.
|>>|| No. 58263
It's not bending over backwards though, is it? Someone changed one sentence in a staff handbook. Piece of piss.
The modern world is tailored in a million different ways to offer a little aid or courtesy to a small minority of the population. We carefully choose carpet patterns so as not to confuse people with dementia, we design control panels to be usable by people with colour blindness, we put prayer rooms in shopping centres, we offer vegan meals in prisons and hospitals, we give Jews the day off for Yom Kippur, we let eskimo coppers swap shifts during Ramadan. It's not the fall of western civilisation, it's just good manners.
|>>|| No. 58264
Precisely. If someone isn't a man or a woman, then don't address them as a man or a woman. Apparently this concept is making the poor posters above's brains melt.
|>>|| No. 58267
Birth defects. You didn't see people trying to class Thalidomide mutants as a separate species.
That's all it is. Birth defects. Do you know who tried classing them as a separate species? Hitler. What you're advocating leads to the slippery slope down to eugenics. Careful, lad. These hermaphrodites may be good at playing the oppression Olympics but I don't they'd be equipped to survive a Holocaust.
|>>|| No. 58269
Maybe it's just because I'm an airplane sort of wanker but I've always preferred "attention all passengers" anyway.
|>>|| No. 58270
Call me a traditionalist, but I don't see what's wrong with "OI OI, YOU LUCKY PEOPLE!".
|>>|| No. 58271
Lad. This is from the NHS:
>Disorders of sex development (DSDs) are a group of rare conditions where the reproductive organs and genitals don't develop as expected.
It's simply defective growth in the womb. The NHS even class it as a disorder. A disorder. The intersex societies are no different than a thalidomide victims support group; they both offer comfort and solace to the biological defects they were born with.
|>>|| No. 58272
Lovely swerve there, genuinely elegant cocksmanship. Double down on the "intersexed people are defective", then glide right past "treating them with respect is a slippery slope to the holocaust". It's like watching Peter Mandelson riding astride the shoulders of Jayne Torvill.
|>>|| No. 58273
London Underground staff don't have to be polite to Peter Mandelson, do they?
|>>|| No. 58274
All I'm saying is it's a double edged sword. If they do too well for themselves then we could end up with babies screened for defective genitals in the same way they're screened for Down syndrome and end up aborted en masse.
|>>|| No. 58275
We're all being polite to Peter Mandelson, by not stripping him naked, covering him in pork lard and parachuting him into IS-controlled territory.
|>>|| No. 58276
Do ISIS even have any territory these days? I've lost track of the whole thing, other that it being an irredeemable clusterfuck.
|>>|| No. 58277
>Stonewall said: "Language is extremely important to the lesbian, gay, bi and trans community, and the way we use it can help ensure all people feel included.
I had no idea these groups had a problem with being termed as ladies and gentlemen. does that mean If a man is gay he is not a gentleman?
I don't see how this helps people, we all know damn well what they mean and that there is no malicious intent involved in a traditional announcement. It's the LGBTAUTISM+ shit again because everyone has to be a snowflake.
>IF THEY DO TOO WELL FOR THEMSELVES THEN WE COULD END UP WITH BABIES SCREENED FOR DEFECTIVE GENITALS IN THE SAME WAY THEY'RE SCREENED FOR DOWN SYNDROME AND END UP ABORTED EN MASSE.
i ALWAYS ASSUMED THESE THINGS WERE SCREENED FOR DURING A PREGNANCY. Not to get them aborted per se but because if your child is going to be born with a disability or a mouth for an arsehole you want some advanced notice.
|>>|| No. 58279
>>58277 it's strange, but I find anyone who uses the term 'snowflake' instantly just loses any credibility in their argument and looks like a UKIP voter.
Not saying I disagree with you, just your use of the word makes you seem like a horrible person.
|>>|| No. 58280
>DOES THAT MEAN IF A MAN IS GAY HE IS NOT A GENTLEMAN?
Quite a lot of gay men have an issue with being lumped in with the gender benders because it has nothing to do with sexuality.
The most racist and intolerant people I know are gay.
|>>|| No. 58281
It's not like all these gender mentalists were made by us cis hetero scum in the first place.
|>>|| No. 58282
I was made by a team of Boeing engineers. I'm an Apache helicopter who sexually identifies as an argumentative prick.
|>>|| No. 58283
"Snowflake" is just a fashionable way of calling someone a crybaby. It's the kind of word used by people who "call a spade a spade" and publicly chastise their wives for being too fat, people who are desperate to be loved but too vulnerable to allow themselves to be loved.
|>>|| No. 58284
I was born with one kidney (a phenomena which although rare is much more more common than intersex).
You don't see me having a piss and moan about the insensitivity of medical textbooks portrayal of normal human anatomy and that they should have qualifiers saying 'but 1 kidney is fine too' demanding representation of more people like me in the media do you? because it is apparently insensitive for people to naturally presume I have 2 kidneys.
Lets not pretend the people who have a piss and a moan about this stuff is actually the intersex population. it is post structuralist feminist academics with too much time on their fucking hands and not enough real problems to complain about so they have to invent them. They are obsessed with genitals and saying they aren't obsessed with genitals, in no other situation would the tail wag the dog this badly, people would just say that's a stupid exception.
Also riddle me this. If gender is purely a social construct, why is getting surgery to look like a different gender a thing? that is by definition a contradiction.
|>>|| No. 58287
Oh my god you are shaming me or something. It's not gods fault now that I am less able it is yours because you drew attention to it, or men actually, lets just say it is men as a whole.
|>>|| No. 58289
The definition of overweight is also a social construct but you can get fat removal. If a nose is big or not is relative but you can still get that done.
|>>|| No. 58290
You're rather ironically getting mad at the word and not the context. The term snowflake might be popular with a certain demographic but it accurately encapsulates a childish narcissism found at the fringes of modern identity politics about constructing a special badge for themselves.
I can't call someone a crybaby now?
The best relationships I ever had were based around playful insults actually. What kind of sterile love-life are you leading where you can't even take the piss out of one-another?
|>>|| No. 58291
>THE DEFINITION OF OVERWEIGHT IS ALSO A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT
No it's not. There are objective international measurements on what overweight is much like we know that there are biological reasons behind transgenderism and homosexuality albeit they are still poorly understood.
|>>|| No. 58292
The definition of overweight is not objective because it's something people invented but happen to mostly agree upon. Even if everybody agreed on it, it still wouldn't be objective. It's just an arbitrary amount of body fat.
|>>|| No. 58293
It's not even an amount of body fat. It's literally just a number that you're supposed to use together with other things like waist size or blood pressure and shit.
|>>|| No. 58294
motorised transport is har'am
diesel is djinn in the translation from scholar abu aks ul tikbradi
pet ur ul shin shin balim :
'for they will become taxi drivers in Roth ul ram and see lo the young girl to be blessed'
|>>|| No. 58300
Unlike the sliding scale of body fat, as to at what point someone becomes too fat and is classified as obese, sex is objectively definable in great apes by the presence and absence of a collection of genes present on the y chromosome and the effects that has on the development of the body, in particular the gonads.
|>>|| No. 58301
>sex is objectively definable in great apes by the presence and absence of a collection of genes present on the y chromosome
This is true. I've definitely got all the genes for great sex going by your mum's reaction.
|>>|| No. 58304
>THE DEFINITION OF OVERWEIGHT IS NOT OBJECTIVE BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING PEOPLE INVENTED BUT HAPPEN TO MOSTLY AGREE UPON. EVEN IF EVERYBODY AGREED ON IT, IT STILL WOULDN'T BE OBJECTIVE. IT'S JUST AN ARBITRARY AMOUNT OF BODY FAT.
You could apply this logic to anything, the time you arrive at a destination is also subjective if you want to think about this too much. For the record the definition does change with facts like ethnicity.
We're not talking about sex but gender. If a biological male wants to identify with the ladies part of the message then it makes no difference.
|>>|| No. 58306
That men and women exist. The overweight comparison fails because being overweight is not socially constructed much as someone being transgender is not something you can just pass off as caused by society like we're living in some postmodernist hell.
|>>|| No. 58307
Weight is just a number, number of X or Y chromosomes or how big your feminine penis is are also numbers.
|>>|| No. 58311
I'm not convinced that Sex is not the same as Gender the people who argued for the change were not scientist but better equipped in cheap points scorning political arena. We might as well as well be asking the religious fanatics how they ‘feel’ about evolution and if the idea offends them and if they were the majority and not enough protest overrule it and start teaching the biblical account as the truth.
The trappings of gender may change from culture to culture, but you can't completely divorce the concepts of gender from sex without it being a nebulous term for a personality type, and we already have a name for that, it is called personality. It also opened the door for the ad infinitum absurdity that populates tumblr blogs. You may say identifying as an attack helicopter, or trans-ethnic, or therian is stupid? But why is it? If the person stating it wasn't being facetious
and believed it in the heart of hearts, who are you, or anyone to say it is wrong by the current criteria?
|>>|| No. 58312
Are you suggesting that because creationists are a product of evolution, despite their believing that they're creationists, they're actually evolutionists?
|>>|| No. 58314
>I'm not convinced
OK, what studies have you read that failed to convince you?
|>>|| No. 58316
>WEIGHT IS JUST A NUMBER
Tell that to the disabled toilet in 'spoons. I dare you.
|>>|| No. 58317
I have no problem telling anything to a toilet because it's a toilet and lacks eardrums and the ability to process language.
|>>|| No. 58318
clearly you haven't been paying enough attention to modern identity politics.
|>>|| No. 58319
What if I told you that they can but they have no mouth with which to scream. Connect the dots m8 there is free wi-fi at spoons and most of us are full of shit.
|>>|| No. 58326
Some people assigned female at birth turned out to identify as men... therefore transgender identities don't exist?
I don't quite follow, the men in the studies obviously felt enough like men in order to identify as men, so surely it is contradictory to believe that transgender people not feeling like their assigned gender is not also a legitimate expression of identity?
|>>|| No. 58330
There's plenty of fruitloops on the X Factor who identify as singers when they can't hold a note.
Identifying as something doesn't mean you're correct. Most people have an inaccurate image of themselves.
|>>|| No. 58343
I'm very annoyed about this, because 'hello everyone' sounds dumb.
They had two real choices: 1. Fallen London-esque 'Ladies, gentlemen, and individuals of mysterious and indistinct gender', or 2. 'Hello wage-slaves'.
I think the second choice is the only real one, in terms of brevity. I've been trying to construct a timetable of greetings for highest possible insult accuracy without much luck, but it should be possible. You can fit "Hello scroungers", "Hello wage-slaves", "Hello coffin-dodgers" in there.
|>>|| No. 58346
The same way that if I kept calling you a hippo and you kept on insisting you were not a hippo but a person it would be different from if I kept calling you a person and you told me you were not a person but a hippo.
That was not the point I was questioned on the question was 'why I thing gender and sex are linked and why I was not convinced that they are separate'.
The entire basis for modern gender politics *IS* a study into people assigned a different gender at birth (we even get the term 'gender role' from "An Examination of Some Basic Sexual Concepts: The Evidence of Human Hermaphroditism"). Otherwise it is meaningless political conjecture of continental philosophers with no basis in reality to suggest that gender and sex aren't linked, you need an experiments that demonstrates that if you raise boys as girls they behave wholly as girls which is what that experiment was for, and the false positive of that experiment is why we have gender reassignment surgery.
When those studies demonstrate the opposite (like when the test case for ‘The Evidence of Human Hermaphroditism’ turned around and said "no I am a man, and raising me as a woman was abusive") it undermines significant parts of philosophy that gender and feminist theory and our approach to gender reassignment is built upon.
The crucial detail here is that the people in "for "Discordant Sexual Identity in Some Genetic Males with Cloacal Exstrophy Assigned to Female Sex at Birth" did not choose to be a different gender from the sex they were born but sort it out in significantly greater quantities than the background level of transitioning a lack of encouragement (even 1 in the 14 the sample would have been a greater proportion than normal, but a possible outlier, but it was more than 50%, and the ones that remained girls, behaved to the observer 'like boys' is a significant trend) back to their 'correct' gender and sex.
This means that the idea that gender is nurture and a social construct ceases to have validity, and the conclusion that gender roles are nature not nurture becomes the reality, that sex *IS* gender and are inseparable from one another, and to impose different from biological sex is by definition incorrect. It undermines the very political consensus that dominates multiple social sciences at their core by making their core premises demonstrably false. It makes gender fluid an impossibility.
It also makes being trans a questionable outlier. It throws an awful lot of weight on the argument the individual is by definition mistaken and mentally ill if they believe themselves to be something they aren't as opposed to a person trapped in a body of the wrong gender.
I realise to most people the idea of sex and gender being separate is a 'so what big deal' but it has had huge effect on people born with genital defects. Because it means people are raised as the sex and gender that they are, rather than as a social experiment for trying to prove (falsely) that gender is just a social construct by raising them the wrong way round.
|>>|| No. 58348
I'm finding it difficult to follow your ramblings but again you seem to be arguing against a strawman; I really don't see the relevance of experiments with hypotheses relating to gender being a question of how someone is raised, because if that was really how gender is formed, transgender people wouldn't exist, as virtually all of them are raised as a gender they go on to reject.
You insist that gender is sex, and yet there are many thousands of transgender people existing openly today as evidence contradicting this absolute. Studies on transgender brains, for instance, show that they exhibit the expected differences found in the cis brains of the gender they identify as - needless to say they didn't have magnetic resonance imaging at the time of An examination of some basic sexual concepts. And once you accept that your gender can vary depending on your brain structure, focusing on chromosomes and genitalia becomes totally superficial.
In the meantime I think you need to get your head out of John Money. Nobody seriously argues that there are no behaviours biologically inherent to one's gender identity. It's a combination of nature and nurture. The truth around sex and gender behaviours is complex and subject to ongoing study, but to deny trans identities entirely is just unjustified bigotry and wholly unscientific.
There are individuals roaming the streets with the faces of squid! Squid!
|>>|| No. 58349
They're just outcasts basically.
Some people look to fulfill this by shitposting on imageboards, some by becoming a suicide bomber, others by focusing their attention on pretending to be a different gender. That's why so many who have a sex change regret it afterwards, they've taken it too far when all they wanted was a little subculture to fit in and accept them.
|>>|| No. 58352
>Nobody seriously argues that there are no behaviours biologically inherent to one's gender identity
Well they are. I don't really know what else to tell you other then that they exist in the facilty of every university in the land, writing papers based on that premise.
|>>|| No. 58356
IS OP SOMEHOW IMPLYING THAT THE TFL ANNOUNCEMENT GUIDELINES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF PERSONAL AIRBORNE TRANSPORTATION AND SPACE TRAVEL?
|>>|| No. 58357
It's interesting to see what happens if you take OP's concept of popular expectations degrading over time and extend them further back.
1400s: The world is full of sin and we're about to see the final judgement where god takes us all up to heaven, the universe is going to end.
100bc: Zeus is a dick lol
300BC: We're about to enter the silver age then following that is the next golden age.
3000BC: OH FUCK ANUBIS
|>>|| No. 58360
That's a bit of an oversimplification lad.
The French aristocrats were degenerate and this precipitated the French Revolution. See the writings of Marquis De Sade for further information.
The Roman Empire was rife with degeneracy at it's peak and ultimately this lead to its decline and fall.
Before that degeneracy in the Greek Empire led to its decline and fall.
Today what we're seeing is peak degeneracy in the western world. This Pax Americana empire. Transgenderism and its like didn't previously exist because these peoples didn't have access to hormones and surgery and were rebelling against a much more conservative norm, but rest assured that otherkin would have been a thing in all these degenerate empires had they access to the information and technology that we do today.
|>>|| No. 58362
>rest assured that otherkin would have been a thing in all these degenerate empires had they access to the information and technology that we do today.
'Otherkin' by a fairly broad stroke exist in most cultures all the time. What do you think spirit animals are?
|>>|| No. 58363
>'Otherkin' by a fairly broad stroke exist in most cultures all the time. What do you think spirit animals are?
Spirit animals are like guardian angles. Other kin believe they are a different creature on a spiritual level.
What you are doing is the spiritual equivalent of believing your mate to be his dog.
|>>|| No. 58364
How is that weirder than believing and angel is following you around looking out for you? Otherkin is just a different perspective of the self; angels are inventing entirely new beings that for some reason think we're special. I suggest you look up the Buid and the Dinka peoples who believe something to the effect that pigs and children are the same thing as too are birds and dead people.
>what you are doing
Fuck off with that sly insinuation that I'd have to be otherkin to defend it in this way.
|>>|| No. 58365
It isn't weirder it just isn't the same thing you retard.
You've changing your premises from 'these are the same' to 'these have the same value in a property'.
What you are doing is licking your own arse and calling it chocolate. They might both be brown but you are still just a shit eating dogkin.
|>>|| No. 58366
Better a stranger on the Internet make nonsense inferences about me than be a moron.
|>>|| No. 58367
You're having this debate in Comic Sans, you pricks.
|>>|| No. 58369
THE TRANS COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN GETTING THEIR KNICKERS IN A TWIST ABOUT JOHN BARROWMAN CALLING HIMSELF THE TRANSGENDER TARDIS WHILST WEARING THIS DRESS.
I THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE. TRANS PEOPLE ARE REALLY UPTIGHT AND PERCEIVE EVERYTHING AS A SLIGHT AND EVERYONE WHO ISN'T TRANS AS THE ENEMY.
|>>|| No. 58370
>That's a bit of an oversimplification lad.
>The Roman Empire was rife with degeneracy at it's peak and ultimately this lead to its decline and fall.
/iq/ may be for silly nonsense, but OP chose to classify gender rights as silly nonsense, therefore he deserves to be challenged.
|>>|| No. 58371
Is replacing the term "ladies and gentlemen" with "hello everyone" a gender right?
Should the term be outright banned? Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
|>>|| No. 58372
>Is replacing the term "ladies and gentlemen" with "hello everyone" a gender right?
You have the right to have your identity acknowledged and validated, and the term 'ladies and gentlemen' does not acknowledge those who are neither ladies nor gentlemen.
It's like if you were a male nurse, and every time the matron enters the ward she says 'gather round girls'. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable if she switched to 'gather round everyone'?
>Should the term be outright banned?
Of course not. But if you wanted to be sensitive to this inclusivity issue then you might consider only using it if you were certain everyone you were addressing was a lady or a gentleman.
>Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
I had to look this up and even then I don't understand its relevance. If you're trying to say this isn't important, then yeah, this change in language is very small act. It's not going to prevent people committing suicide in and of itself. But it makes a big difference in the lives of the people it effects, who have to put up with having their identity erased virtually every day of their lives, and internalise that doubt and loathing.
|>>|| No. 58373
>EVERYTHING AS A SLIGHT AND EVERYONE WHO ISN'T TRANS AS THE ENEMY.
Because it usually is and they usually are when you're trans. They already have enough of a problem being taken seriously without Barrowman taking the piss, albeit without ill intent.
|>>|| No. 58375
The TARDIS is female. By dressing up in a TARDIS dress he is being a transgender TARDIS.
I can't imagine living life not being able to lighten up and taking offence at everything.
|>>|| No. 58376
I don't get the hate for trannies at all. Sure, you can't get DAB on them but otherwise they do the job.
|>>|| No. 58377
Depends what you call hatred.
Because there are a lot of people who think they are just mentally ill, and that transitioning is fundamentally impossible. Which from the outside isn't hatred, but I imagine when you are a tranny sounds like the devaluing rhetoric of someone who hates them.
|>>|| No. 58378
Something that helped me better think about this issue was to consider whether gender and sex could be separate. It seems that gender is a social construct, a concept, in that it only exists as an idea whereas sex actually exists in our biology.
Heh, gonads actually exist.
|>>|| No. 58382
Well, quite - it may be a fact that I have a willy or that I have a Y chromosome, but it's not a fact that I am a 'man', because what constitutes a man is a social construct.
|>>|| No. 58384
I tried, but when I said I was stuttering, he said I must be faking it coz I'm mentally ill or summat.
|>>|| No. 58387
I think a not insignificant number of people who've had a sex change have regretted it afterwards. Something about it turning out the actual underlying issues they have aren't to do with having the old genital switcheroo and they'd manage to delude themselves it was.
|>>|| No. 58392
I guess that's why they make you go to a shrink first here, so you can get checked before you get wrecked.
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