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>> No. 15589 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 10:13 am
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-space-force-pentagon-create-military-space-force-national-space-council-meeting-2018-06-18/

>President Trump officially directed the Pentagon to establish a sixth branch of the U.S. military in space on Monday. Speaking at a National Space Council meeting at the White House, Mr. Trump called for a "space force" to ensure American dominance on the high frontier.
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>> No. 15590 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 11:07 am
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Even when he's threatening to invade space I just find him so tedious.
>> No. 15591 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 11:23 am
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>>15590

Just wait until he proposes a wall to be built in space to ward off Mexican space immigrants.
>> No. 15592 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 11:40 am
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Apparently this is remarkably similar to a proposal his administration effectively shut down last year.

http://spacenews.com/house-panel-takes-first-step-towards-military-space-corps/

Hopefully it really happens and it's not just a way to distract us from the mexican child concentration camps. It'd open up a tonne of money for space exploration that no government can justify right now. But once there's American nukes in space it'll kick off a proper space race again. Can't wait.
>> No. 15593 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 3:04 pm
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>>15592

>But once there's American nukes in space it'll kick off a proper space race again

The troubling thing is that the Strategic Defence Initiative (SDI) was only scrapped because technology wasn't advanced enough at the time. Nowadays, it's much more likely that you could implement a system with which you could shoot inbound nuclear missiles out of the sky before they reach their targets.

A lot is possible today that wouldn't have worked in the 80s. Including stationing nuclear missiles in space. But you would hope that it doesn't come to that. The last thing the world needs is more nukes.
>> No. 15594 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 6:45 pm
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>>15593
The problem with Americas development of systems to destroy missiles, is that it has prompted China and Russia to start developing hyper-sonic weapons which can't be intercepted.
>> No. 15595 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 8:28 pm
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>>15594

Classic arms race.

In the end, this is essentially how we got from slingshots and wooden clubs to bronze swords and firearms. It would be naive to think that we have progressed enough as a species to ever put a stop to it. It's just too deeply ingrained.

The only thing that has kept us from using nuclear weapons against each other on a larger scale was really the Prisoner's Dilemma and other game theory related concepts. And more than our fair share of improbable luck at the right moment.

What should scare everybody is that these axioms that have kept WWIII from happening thus far are only considered valid for rational players. If one side has somebody who isn't right in the head in a crucial position of their chain of command, a lot of it just goes out the window and anything can happen.
>> No. 15596 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 9:32 pm
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>>15595
> What should scare everybody is that these axioms that have kept WWIII from happening thus far are only considered valid for rational players. If one side has somebody who isn't right in the head in a crucial position of their chain of command, a lot of it just goes out the window and anything can happen.

https://www.thefix.com/white-house-wet-brains-history-presidential-drinking

“It wasn’t so much that he was a huge drinker, but one scotch with the pills would mess him up. He’d drunk dial people in his cabinet, his staff, or his old football coach, who would listen to Nixon until he’d mumble himself to sleep.“

I wonder how many times Nixon attempted to slur the launch codes down the red line to a bored nuclear submarine captain off the coast of Guam who had to put up with this tiresome charade several times a week and quite frankly was getting damn tired of the president's shit.
>> No. 15597 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 10:15 pm
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>>15596

I wasn't talking about obvious idiocy. And anybody who is in a position where they have the hand on the launch switch will know not to take orders from a drunk president.

But what if you've got somebody sitting in a silo who fully intends to launch whatever nuclear weapons they might have under their command. Or maybe somebody is clinically depressed and went undetected during regular screenings. Or if somebody just makes a bad decision under pressure. Or if they are just a plain psychopath.

And we shouldn't be so sure that you can't have the wrong people in the wrong place. If you read up on the Soviet submarine K-129 incident in 1968, some theories suggest that it exploded in the middle of the Pacific because the submarine's crew managed at the last minute to prevent a plot by KGB operatives (who were officially on board as guests) to take over the submarine and launch a nuclear attack against Hawaii, hoping that the U.S. would blame China (which was in the submarine's general direction from Hawaii), so that China and the U.S. would have wiped each other out and the Soviet Union would have remained as the only nuclear superpower. It could be that the sub's crew deliberately mishandled the missiles so the propellent tanks would explode. This was apparently a known protection mechanism against unauthorised launches.

So in essence, if you believe that theory, you had people at the launch button in that submarine who were willing to give their lives to prevent a nuclear attack against Hawaii. Do you think it's a fair assumption that every missile operator under Russian command would have done the same in that situation, probably with a KGB operative pointing a gun at their head?

We've had the right people in the right place at the right time on many occasions. But we shouldn't assume that it is just not human nature to actually go through with it and follow an order to deploy hundreds of nuclear missiles against your enemy when that order is handed down to you as a military officer. If we want to keep it from happening in the future, we must see our near misses during the Cold War as a concatenation of improbable luck which we had over and over again.
>> No. 15598 Anonymous
19th June 2018
Tuesday 11:17 pm
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>>15597
> I wasn't talking about obvious idiocy. And anybody who is in a position where they have the hand on the launch switch will know not to take orders from a drunk president.
>> No. 15599 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 12:16 am
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>>15597

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permissive_Action_Link
>> No. 15600 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 10:24 am
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This is such a bizarre policy choice.

Maybe I'm being a bit tinfoil, but I presume the reason for this is that the Russians want to militaries space but that might cause international tension, so they've got trump to declare this so that they 'aren't making the first move'. Either that or they want to bankrupt the US by getting them to pour all their money into a hole.
>> No. 15601 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 10:51 am
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>>15600

I don't think it's that bizarre. There's a huge defence advantage to being the world's first and most prominent military out there. I don't think anyone's expecting to have a laser battle around the moon any time soon, but the implications of training a space force quickly mean better missile defence, strike capability and surveillance. Not to mention the ability to knock enemy satellites out of the sky when the time comes, and the advantages of having a branch of military trained (and equipped) for zero G or high atmo combat before anyone else. It sounds a bit silly but it's really not. It's an inevitability that the theatre of war will extend out eventually, so being there first is not a bad idea.

The real shock is that such a forward-thinking policy has the Trump administration's stamp on it.
>> No. 15602 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 10:53 am
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>>15601

I should add that the idea that the Russians might be egging him on is probably true, though. What a weird time.
>> No. 15603 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 1:35 pm
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Maybe we could just stop killing each other?!

Oh, sorry, that's too silly, LET'S JUST DO MOONRAKER INSTEAD, OKAY!
>> No. 15604 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 1:44 pm
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I think lads are getting a bit sci-fi about this here.

Lots of military hardware is now in space and it's an important place. You don't want a missle being launched and taking down your satellites or something that prevents you getting them up there.

That's what this will be about, I highly doubt it's about having zero g guns so we can shoot lasers at anybody on the moon.
>> No. 15605 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 1:59 pm
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>>15604

>That's what this will be about

You're certainly right, and I'm sure we have at least a decade of very boring stuff like parking things in front of Chinese satellites, but once you're up there and figuring out military operations in space, the sort of research that feels sci-fi will absolutely be part of the deal. Rail guns and propulsion systems will be getting worked on for sure. Definitely not laser guns as they're not a good weapon, though.

The simplest and cheapest thing you can do in space is to drop stuff back down on top of people, though. If you're the first military up there and you bring a box full of tungsten rods and a bit of maths, you have an almost indefensible weapon. I'm very interested to see what they do.

For my tin foil/sci fi novel part: If I was, say, a president who has already talked publicly about wishing I could serve for as long a term as I wanted, and keep getting accused of things that I can only pardon myself of while I'm still in office, I might consider building a death ray in space to ensure that plan.
>> No. 15606 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 5:51 pm
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>>15605

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_gun

>Later during World War II, a group of German scientists at the German Army Artillery proving grounds at Hillersleben began to expand on Oberth's idea of creating a superweapon that could utilize the sun's energy. This so-called "sun gun" (Sonnengewehr) would be part of a space station 8,200 kilometres (5,100 mi) above Earth. The scientists calculated that a huge reflector, made of metallic sodium and with an area of 9 square kilometres (900 ha; 3.5 sq mi), could produce enough focused heat to make an ocean boil or burn a city.[1]After being questioned by officers of the United States, the Germans claimed that the sun gun could be completed within 50 or 100 years.

Crafty buggers they were, those Nazis. How lucky for us that the Endsieg never materialised. The last thing a country full of ginger people needs is somebody pointing a super focused sun beam at us.
>> No. 15607 Anonymous
20th June 2018
Wednesday 7:07 pm
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>>15604
>That's what this will be about, I highly doubt it's about having zero g guns so we can shoot lasers at anybody on the moon.
I'm not sure Trump realises this. I get the feeling he thinks his Space Force will be PEW PEW PEWing their way through the Clarke belt.

Who knows, maybe Newt will finally get the moonbase he promised in 2012 after all.
>> No. 15608 Anonymous
21st June 2018
Thursday 11:16 pm
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>>15607

>I'm not sure Trump realises this. I get the feeling he thinks his Space Force will be PEW PEW PEWing their way through the Clarke belt.


Trump is looking at sanity in the rear view mirror from many miles away any way you dissect it. Somebody who actually bases his foreign, and to a lesser degree domestic policy on watching Fox News and other purveyors of alternative facts, you can't trust to not actually think that there will be a mobile infantry shooting man-sized bugs on Klendathu in twenty years' time.

If you can suspend your sneering at a botched blend of action popcorn cinema and brilliant satire of fascism for a moment, then you will realise that the film Starship Troopers showed us a future that we are more inevitably headed for with every day that passes.

Our future will probably be a mix of the most disturbing elements of Idiocracy and the spot-on caricaturisation of fascism that Starship Troopers is in places.
>> No. 15609 Anonymous
21st June 2018
Thursday 11:59 pm
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>>15608

To illustrate my point, listen to what the dad from the 70s Show says in this clip.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsR4O4W0w

The worrying thing is perhaps that the original novel wasn't a piss take on fascism, but really more an actual defence of it.
>> No. 15610 Anonymous
22nd June 2018
Friday 7:50 pm
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>>15609
>The worrying thing is perhaps that the original novel wasn't a piss take on fascism, but really more an actual defence of it.

Anyone who says that hasn't really understood the book, and the definitely haven't read enough of the rest of Heinleins work.

Yes, starship troopers does support certain philosophies which could be considered aspects of fascism, but Heinleins work considered as a whole is vehemently anti-fascist. The central theme through nearly all his books is protecting individual liberties and standing up to unjust laws. The societies he portrays as being closest to Utopian tend to have a strongly communal structure. He has characters from every race and creed appear in his books in convincing roles (far better than hollywood achieves today.)
Case in point: the main character in starship troopers the main character "Johnnie" is revealed inconsequentially to be a Filipino "Juan" fairly late in the book. In the film he's just regular aryan John.

What really shows that Heinlein-bashers have never actually read his books, is the fact that they choose to attack him for fascism, instead of the fact that has actually wrote stories about how great it is for the main characters to carpet-bagger their own pre-teen children.
>> No. 15611 Anonymous
22nd June 2018
Friday 10:54 pm
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>>15610

All that said, Paul Verhoeven's stated goal was to make the film decidedly a caricature of fascism. Well, while entertaining the public with a sci fi action adventure. An idea that kind of eluded most of the movie going public though. And the film has its weaknesses in places, where it is really not all that Verhoeven must have hoped for and is just dumb popcorn cinema.

But if you look closely, the uniforms worn by many members of the military are very similar to standard WWII Wehrmacht issue. Paul Verhoeven said once that Wehrmacht officers in dark trenchcoats and peaked caps patrolling city streets were among his formative childhood memories growing up in Nazi occupied Holland, and that's why you see a lot of them in the film.

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