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>> No. 17827 Anonymous
7th February 2019
Thursday 9:40 pm
17827 Indian man to sue parents for giving birth to him
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154287

>A 27-year-old Indian man plans to sue his parents for giving birth to him without his consent.

>Mumbai businessman Raphael Samuel told the BBC that it's wrong to bring children into the world because they then have to put up with lifelong suffering.

>Mr Samuel, of course, understands that our consent can't be sought before we are born, but insists that "it was not our decision to be born".

>So as we didn't ask to be born, we should be paid for the rest of our lives to live, he argues.

>A demand like this could cause a rift within any family, but Mr Samuel says he gets along very well with his parents (both of whom are lawyers) and they appear to be dealing with it with a lot of humour.

>In a statement, his mother Kavita Karnad Samuel explained her response to "the recent upheaval my son has created".

>"I must admire my son's temerity to want to take his parents to court knowing both of us are lawyers. And if Raphael could come up with a rational explanation as to how we could have sought his consent to be born, I will accept my fault," she said.


Difficult to say really who is being the smuggest cunt in this.
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>> No. 17949 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 5:54 pm
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>>17948

It's quite obvious you're just being obstinate for the sake of not backing down.
>> No. 17950 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 5:58 pm
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>>17949
You ok, lad?
>> No. 17951 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:00 pm
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>>17944

>So I guess it's no surprise that anti-natalism is seriously being debated on an image board like .gs

So you do understand.

>You do wonder why the Japanese seem so unhappy, at number 53...

I think it has a lot to do with their very strict and narrow social rules. You can be seen as an outcast by your peers for doing something as simple as being late for work. As a result a lot of people with depression or other mental illness will simply hide it as they don't want to be seen as different or as a burden. Of course this stuff happens everywhere, but Japan is such an insular society that it is amplified.

There's a condition called hikikomori which is essentially when someone is so overwhelmed by society they choose not to participate, and become reclusive hermits, with some hikikomori not leaving their bedrooms or houses for years on end.
>> No. 17952 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:05 pm
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>>17950
You still haven't named any people who've never existed.
>> No. 17953 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:08 pm
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It seems clear to me that some people in this thread don't understand what debate is, and are confusing philosophical questions, and literal thought experiments, with a genuine campaign to ban pregnancies or at the very least people who identify and operate as 'anti-natalists'.

I thought we built on devils advocatism, but apparently some of us are taking it very personally.

For what it's worth I just think we should sterilise half the population at birth, at random. Like they put the kid in a machine and it either zaps your balls/ovaries or it doesn't. Nobody knows until they try to have kids, and when they find out they can't the doctor just gives them a free kid from the orphanage.
>> No. 17954 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:10 pm
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>>17952
How about your girlfriend?

You'll get a serious response when you make a serious point, and not before.
>> No. 17955 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:14 pm
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>>17954

Your mother is very real, I assure you. Please, continue to have hurt feelings about philosophy.
>> No. 17956 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:16 pm
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>>17953

>It seems clear to me that some people in this thread don't understand what debate is, and are confusing philosophical questions, and literal thought experiments, with a genuine campaign to ban pregnancies or at the very least people who identify and operate as 'anti-natalists'.

You know you're supposed to read the thread you're replying to before posting, right? This is /news/ and the story being discussed is someone literally suing his parents for giving birth to him. He identifies and operates as an anti-natalist. To wit, that's the very substance of the story.
>> No. 17957 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:17 pm
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>>17955
Again with the projection, lad? Have a word.
>> No. 17958 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:17 pm
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>>17956
>To wit

To woo.
>> No. 17959 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:19 pm
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>>17944
>We rank at #23 and therefore below nearly all other developed Western countries.
Yet we're supposed to cheer up and enjoy life because apparently someone in Iraq doesn't have time to think about Antinatalism in their state of noble savagery.

>>17956
It's not exactly an acrimonious lawsuit and as a well-to-do businessman with lawyer parents he's not exactly going to struggle to bare the cost of bringing a court case. Hardly impressive.
Now, the Indycamp case - that was impressive.
>> No. 17960 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:24 pm
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>>17951

>There's a condition called hikikomori which is essentially when someone is so overwhelmed by society they choose not to participate, and become reclusive hermits, with some hikikomori not leaving their bedrooms or houses for years on end.

One-third of .gs posters, neatly summed up in a nutshell.

Also though, who looks after these people? Who pays for their food and/or housing, with them obviously not being in gainful employment?
>> No. 17961 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:27 pm
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>>17956

I've read the thread and we stopped talking about the lad in the article about four posts in - didn't you notice?
>> No. 17962 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:30 pm
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>>17958
Well aren't you a hoot.
>> No. 17963 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:34 pm
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>>17961
Was that the bit where some idiot started taking about fucking a dog in the arse and throwing it into bear traps or something like that? Sounds like an interesting thought experiment that definitely has useful implications.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS6rLF_mqgM
>> No. 17964 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:35 pm
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>>17960
>One-third of .gs posters, neatly summed up in a nutshell.
That's no way to talk about ARE PURPS.
>> No. 17965 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:37 pm
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>>17960

>Also though, who looks after these people?

The majority are adolescents (or young adults), and I gather those ones are looked after by their parents - I bet knowing that you're so fucked your mum and dad still have to feed you and so on probably feeds into the shame they're feeling and keeps them trapped in that loop. And the parents will be reluctant to admit their kid is fucked up/seek help. The problem almost creates itself.

As for those who are living alone, I'm not sure. Maybe there simply can't be any that aren't living with their parents. Perhaps the Japanese benefits system allows for them to stay at home, or perhaps you can still be classed as hikikomori despite going outside to pick up your giro or answer the door for a pizza. For a while in my past the only thing I would leave the house for was work, then I'd go straight back home and order a takeaway, I wonder if that would count. I was inarguably isolated.

I thought this was interesting, too, in a very Japanese way :

>Some organizations such as the non-profit Japanese organization NPO lila have been trying to combat the financial burden the hikikomori phenomenon has had on Japan's economy. The Japanese CD and DVD producer Avex Group produces DVD videos of live-action women staring into a camera to help hikikomori learn to cope with eye contact and long spans of human interaction.
>> No. 17966 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:38 pm
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>>17963


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nQ9lmriWOc
>> No. 17967 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:40 pm
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>>17963

Did you know that one of the most famous thought experiments was about poisoning a cat? Another one was about whether to allow six people to die or sacrifice one.

The amazing thing about thought experiments is that you can use almost any hypothetical you like, as long as it makes your point clear, meaning you can suit them to your audience and style of writing.

You do not typically expect someone to freak out at a thought experiment and think that you're actually wanting to poison the cat.
>> No. 17968 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:43 pm
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>>17967
Did you know that both of those thought experiments have actual real-world implications?
>> No. 17969 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:49 pm
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>>17968

I'm pretty sure giving birth or not also has real world implications.

Honestly I don't see how you can look at the trolley problem, a question about the moral implications of controlling the potential to someone's suffering, and somehow conclude that the Puppy Bear Trap Problem is completely different.
>> No. 17970 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 6:49 pm
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>>17965

> I bet knowing that you're so fucked your mum and dad still have to feed you and so on probably feeds into the shame they're feeling and keeps them trapped in that loop.

There is an idea in socioeconomics called the trap theorem, which holds that once you have fallen through the cracks of society and are jobless and without money, it becomes a self perpetuating vicious circle of long-term unemployment and deterioration of social contacts which negatively affect and feed on each other, so that the longer you have been trapped that way, the more unlikely it becomes that you will ever break free from that cycle.

It's considered to be one reason why dolescum often remain dolescum.
>> No. 17971 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 7:20 pm
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>>17967

I guess it's that thing about travelling back to Austria in the 1890s and being faced with the question if you would kill baby Adolf Hitler. If you did, it would be of no consequence, nobody would arrest you. So what would you do?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De_HuG7_F7w

I've come up with a different take on that thought experiment. Say it's 1946, Hitler was caught alive by the Russians before he could kill himself, and is sitting in a prison cell in Nuremberg and awaiting his trial and certain execution. You are the warden in that prison. Hitler for some reason hasn't had food or water for three days, and he is visibly thirsty and starving, and begging you to give him some of the bottled water and bread you have on your warden desk. You alone decide who gets that water and bread, with no consequences either way. Would you grant a condemned prisoner facing justice and execution one of his last wishes and let him have the water and bread, or would you deny it to him because after single-handedly starting World War II and killing millions of Jews, being starved and dehydrated is still too good for him?

Self-sage for complete irrelevance to the thread.
>> No. 17972 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 7:24 pm
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>>17969
The trolley problem concerns itself with the excluded middle. Your puppy nonsense disregards that and expects your mark to simply accept the resulting contradicting and reason past it. It's shit-tier "1=0" level trolling.
>> No. 17973 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 8:11 pm
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>>17972

No, see, the puppy being put into the house is the baby being born. The house is the earth.
>> No. 17974 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 8:24 pm
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>>17971
>I guess it's that thing about travelling back to Austria in the 1890s and being faced with the question if you would kill baby Adolf Hitler. If you did, it would be of no consequence, nobody would arrest you. So what would you do?

As you are a new member, please read IATT Bulletin 1147 regarding the killing of Hitler before your next excursion. Failure to do so may result in your expulsion per Bylaw 223.
>> No. 17975 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 8:38 pm
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>>17971

I don't think I'd kill baby Hitler. It would be pretty easy to just do something minor that would butterfly effect him into not growing up to be who he would otherwise.

Most likely that wouldn't prevent the rise of fascism in Europe anyway. I think I'd want to talk to some economics professors and historians first and figure out how to do that instead of worrying about infanticide.
>> No. 17976 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 8:45 pm
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People seem to forget that the nazi party wasn't a one man operation. You'd have to kill a lot of party members before you got close to a reasonable chance of preventing the holocaust or WWII.
>> No. 17977 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:04 pm
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I'm not sure debating Nazism, of all things, is a healthy direction for this thread to take.

In law, there is such a thing as assumed consent. It's a bit of a shaky concept occasionally, but the idea is that sometimes, in the absence of expressed consent, such consent can be assumed. For example, when somebody is badly injured in a car accident and also unconscious, they cannot consent to an emergency surgery which they might need in order to survive. Therefore, doctors are legally allowed to just assume that the patient would consent to the surgery if he was given to understand that it is a life and death matter for him, and assumed consent is then equal to actual consent and the surgery can begin as needed.

And likewise, because anti-natalism is fairly a niche concept, I would say parents are forgiven for just assuming that their child wants to be born, because by and large, most people do end up happy about the fact that they exist.
>> No. 17978 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:23 pm
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>>17977

Whether or not consent can be assumed is a philosophical question. We may feel it can be in certain situations but in anti-natalism, it isn't. Both are valid.
>> No. 17979 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:27 pm
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>>17973
You're almost there. What happens if the puppy isn't put into the house?
>> No. 17980 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:29 pm
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>>17978
>We may feel it can be in certain situations but in anti-natalism, it isn't.
Go on.
>> No. 17981 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:30 pm
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>>17979

It doesn't exist. There's another house next door where the puppy is aborted.
>> No. 17982 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:31 pm
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>>17978

Even if anti-natalism thinks consent can't be assumed, again, it's such a niche concept that it is safe to believe it has no relevance for most people in real life, and therefore parents are within their rights to assume their child wants to be born. And this in turn also calls into question the validity of anti-natalism itself.
>> No. 17983 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:32 pm
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>>17981
Right. Do you now see why "existence causes suffering" is a nonsensical proposition?
>> No. 17984 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:35 pm
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>>17983

No, it's not my fault you don't understand what an analogy is.

Existence is full of suffering. The house is full of bear traps. Same thing. The puppy can't exist outside the house. Humans can't exist without conception.
>> No. 17985 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:38 pm
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>>17984
>Existence is full of suffering. The house is full of bear traps. Same thing.
If you say so, luv.
>> No. 17986 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:44 pm
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>>17980

I did go on. I said "Both are valid".

>>17982

How many people agree with an idea doesn't have much to do with whether or not it's true. If everyone told you to jump off the flat Earth, it doesn't mean it's right to. Or not to, in this case.
>> No. 17987 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:46 pm
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>>17986
>I did go on. I said "Both are valid".
Given that, what do you think you should have drawn from the fact I still said "go on"?
>> No. 17988 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 9:47 pm
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I am actually hiding a thread for the first time in many years of lurking here.
>> No. 17989 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 10:06 pm
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>>17988

If your parents hadn't had you, then you'd not have had to read any of it.
>> No. 17990 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 10:11 pm
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>>17986

>If everyone told you to jump off the flat Earth, it doesn't mean it's right to.

That's dangerous talk. I am sure people have gotten hurt attempting it.
>> No. 17991 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 10:19 pm
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>>17987

That you're being annoying and continuing to deliberately not understand what you're being told, probably.
>> No. 17992 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 10:22 pm
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>>17989

Also, you'd never have got to imagine fucking a dog in the arse over a bear trap as an act of aggression against Eddie.
>> No. 17994 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 10:49 pm
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>>17992

> fucking a dog in the arse over a bear trap as an act of aggression against Eddie


POTW, lad.

Hands down, POTW.
>> No. 17995 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 10:58 pm
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>>17994
My mind is also boggling at >>17992

Everyone go home, bear trap lad has won.
>> No. 17996 Anonymous
9th February 2019
Saturday 11:01 pm
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>>17995

>bear trap lad has won

I would like to see how he manages to bum a dog over a bear trap before I go.
>> No. 18002 Anonymous
10th February 2019
Sunday 4:55 pm
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>>17995

Looks like everybody did go home.

Did all the anti-natalists suddenly go and off themselves?


I'm bored and looking for cheap Sunday afternoon entertainment, as you can easily tell
>> No. 18003 Anonymous
10th February 2019
Sunday 5:16 pm
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>>18002

The winner was declared, so the cuntoff is officially over. Haven't you read the by-laws?
>> No. 18004 Anonymous
10th February 2019
Sunday 5:27 pm
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>>18003

I'll get my coat.

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