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>> No. 80531 Anonymous
27th November 2016
Sunday 11:01 am
80531 Corbyn Mk III: Electric Boogaloo
I think it's time for a new Corbyn thread.

The previous thread (>>73072) is reaching critical mass. In combination with the original thread (>>64990) we've had over 4,700 posts on Dear Leader since August last year. That's a lot of shitposting. Keep up the good work, lads.
1077 posts omitted. Last 50 posts shown. Expand all images.
>> No. 83498 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 1:12 pm
83498 spacer
>>83495
Here's the problem: We have nothing to lose when you actually look at the situation through a reasonable lens. (i.e. stop masturbating to fantasies where the UK finds itself in a Greece tier situation, despite having her own independent currency and only hiding debt off balance sheet with PFI rather than Byzantine lies.)

Even when you look at some of the realistic negative impacts they'd be fun to watch. A house price crash, for example. Yes please. Even if I still won't own a house, (a) my relative prosperity will increase and (b) it'll be fun watching the people who pushed housing out of reach find themselves wiped out. Or a devaluation of the pound (oh no, imports will be more expensive! Consumers might - oh no! - have to buy domestically made products, or - god forbid - produce them!), or the City of London disappearing into a black hole.

tbh disappointed Corbyn won't just instate gulags for the insufferable. That's the real thing that'll disillusion me, people will say stupid things at PMQs and I'll be screaming at the telly "GULAG, GULAG, TORTURE, GULAG!" and Corbyn will say something about the post Keynesian investment program of the Bank of England and sit down.
>> No. 83500 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 1:46 pm
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>>83498
>Even when you look at some of the realistic negative impacts they'd be fun to watch. A house price crash, for example. Yes please. Even if I still won't own a house, (a) my relative prosperity will increase and (b) it'll be fun watching the people who pushed housing out of reach find themselves wiped out. Or a devaluation of the pound (oh no, imports will be more expensive! Consumers might - oh no! - have to buy domestically made products, or - god forbid - produce them!), or the City of London disappearing into a black hole.

To be honest you just sound like a bitter arsehole. I'm not going to get into your usual "just print the money!" nonsense but a house price crash will negatively impact real people who at least by my measure are innocent, for instance those about to retire who tied their money into a family home.

Even ignoring those people the very idea that you and I can enjoy any sort of modern quality of life without imports is a load of bollocks. This is not just because production methods have required imports since at least the advert of palm oil lubricant but because commodities like my morning blood orange juice, medicine, information or even the basic human right to not eat leaks at every meal cost viable currency to import.

Maybe this is just the crux of Momentum. It's not a movement, it's a mental health crisis.
>> No. 83501 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 1:52 pm
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>>83498
>Or a devaluation of the pound (oh no, imports will be more expensive! Consumers might - oh no! - have to buy domestically made products, or - god forbid - produce them!)
Remember Wilson's talk of the "pound in your pocket"? That only worked because we actually made things back then. It's not going to magically bring about more domestic production.
>> No. 83502 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 2:02 pm
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>>83500
>To be honest you just sound like a bitter arsehole.
Maybe it's the whole lack of future prospects thing.
> I'm not going to get into your usual "just print the money!" nonsense
Silly, we don't print money anymore. :^) http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneycreation.pdf
>To be honest you just sound like a bitter arsehole. I'm not going to get into your usual "just print the money!" nonsense but a house price crash will negatively impact real people who at least by my measure are innocent, for instance those about to retire who tied their money into a family home.
Oh no, spare a thought for the people who grew up in an age of full employment and reasonable house prices and sat on a lump of concrete as it appreciated in value. Surely we must hold the value of a basic necessity far above reasonable levels, to the benefit of all sorts of wanker just because otherwise Granny might have to live on the state pension.
>without imports is a load of bollocks
Nobody said this. It's about the competitiveness of imports versus exports, not about refusing imports altogether.

>>83501
There's no magic to it, just market forces. (Well, maybe a bit of magic. It's praxeology, I don't gotta explain shit...)
We actually make a surprising amount, I don't know about now but I believe even in ~2000 Manufacturing still did more for the economy than financial services, despite politicial fetishism of financial markets. I mean, we even still make cars - is it really a travesty to have to buy a car from Ellesmere Port rather than one that came over on a container ship? (Especially when you consider the inverse case too: Sticking more cars from Ellesmere Port on container ships going the other way.)
>> No. 83503 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 2:05 pm
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>>83501

Our manufacturing output has increased since the 70s and manufacturing growth is outpacing the rest of the economy. We still make stuff, we just don't employ many people to do it.

A devaluation of the pound would be good for business but bad for the standard of living of ordinary workers.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2803400/UK-manufacturing-output-increased-1978-ONS-figures-show.html
>> No. 83504 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 4:49 pm
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>>83503
>A devaluation of the pound would be good for business

Never underestimate British short-termism:

Britain’s manufacturing exporters have “hoarded” the gains from last year’s fall in sterling by putting up prices rather than increasing output and sales.

The Office for National Statistics said exporters could have allowed their prices to decline in line with the fall in the pound, making their products more attractive to foreign buyers, but chose to boost their profits instead.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/15/uk-exporters-have-hoarded-gains-from-fall-in-sterling-says-ons
>> No. 83505 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 5:47 pm
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>>83502
Manufacturing is still a Greater proportion of the economy than fi financial services.
>> No. 83506 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 6:29 pm
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I agree with arseholelad. Why should I be branded an arse for wanting cheaper housing? The government's had a good couple of decades to fix it, but they didn't, so I hope it crashes. Maybe I can buy a 2 bedroom with a year's worth of salary.
>> No. 83507 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 7:38 pm
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>>83502
>Maybe it's the whole lack of future prospects thing.

That's not an excuse. Just because your own life is a bitter shell doesn't give you a pass to be a dick to everyone else or laugh at the idea of other people losing their job and life savings because they have it better.

>Nobody said this. It's about the competitiveness of imports versus exports, not about refusing imports altogether.

I'm telling you that this country needs imports and the rapid devaluation of the pound would be bad for that. Your excuse that people can just 'buy domestic' doesn't make sense in a modern society and is frankly a childish argument.
>> No. 83508 Anonymous
28th September 2017
Thursday 7:45 pm
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>>83502
Careful now, lad. Otherwise someone will probably say something stupid about those homeowners like "they deserved it" or "they worked hard for it" or some other bollocks.
>> No. 83509 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 12:12 am
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>>83507
>NIMBY future housebuilding because you don't want your view spoiled/your investment devalued
>Call others arseholes for laughing when your property value is cut in half and the bank offers them negative real terms interest payments on mortgaging a similar property
>[Implicit] Demand that the government prop up the value of housing "so that people don't lose their life's savings", regardless of the impact on the numbers of people who won't have any life savings because it's all gone on rent.
I can laugh at whoever I want to, it just so happens the people I'm laughing at now either (a) deserve it, or (b) are well off enough to weather it.
What's the harm in your house devaluing 99% if you've paid off the mortgage and you're using it properly? (i.e as a place to live)
>> No. 83510 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 12:32 am
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>>83509
I struggle to see the point of having an expensive house in retirement. You can't take it with you and passing it on to the kids only makes the whole situation worse.
>> No. 83511 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 1:52 am
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>>83510
You get to sell it for 20 times what you bought it for. Then you can buy a cheaper place somewhere nice in the country AND buy a shithole shoebox so that you can rent it out to poor bastards who spend 50% of their salaries on rent. They you create a chain and buy more and more houses and rent them all out and live off the rent. By the end of it, you will be a multimillionaire. We must protect these kinds of people.
>> No. 83512 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 5:54 am
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>>83509

We're fucked either way. If house prices remain high, we'll pay through the nose for rent. If house prices crash, an entire generation will lose their pensions and we'll have to cover the shortfall through taxes. We can't just tell the old to go fuck themselves, because the retired and soon-to-be retired substantially outnumber and outvote the young.

Realistically, we're left with two options - either we figure out a careful compromise to increase the amount of affordable housing without crashing the market, or the country will suffer demographic collapse after a wave of youth emigration. Brexit was a very canny move by the old, because it cuts off a lot of opportunities for emigration.
>> No. 83513 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 7:20 am
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You're all fucking idiots. If property prices crash then the people with all the disposable capital will buy them up, like when people complain about "da rich" doing well out of the crash because they were in a position to hold and invest in the stock markets when it was at a low and benefit when it shot up again.

The high rental yields would make it look a very attractive asset class to invest in. It wouldn't be some drippy cunt working in a call centre who'd be able to afford them, they'd all get hoovered up first by speculators.

A crash wouldn't see rents fall significantly as buy-to-let landlords don't actually make much more off the rent than the mortgage, tax and maintenance costs are. The rent is primarily used as a tool to service the mortgage so they're left with the capital sum at the end, so there's little scope for it to go down if they're to meet the repayments.

If you want to stop people investing in property then make pensions and the like a more attractive alternative.
>> No. 83514 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 7:23 am
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>>83513
who cares lmao fuck old people amirite guys
>> No. 83515 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 7:41 am
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>>83513

If there's cheap capital available, then ordinary proles could buy up a lot of those cheap houses; of course, odds are that it's just inflate another bubble. The only way to permanently break that boom-and-bust cycle is to glut the housing market beyond the point of scarcity, by building vast quantities of mid- and high-rise flats in the southeast.

>If you want to stop people investing in property then make pensions and the like a more attractive alternative.

That probably won't help. Housing is such an attractive "investment" because it's effectively an intergenerational wealth transfer. Renters need somewhere to live, so their landlords have them over a barrel. Landlords can effectively impose a tax on the productive economy, simply by holding an asset that is essential but arbitrarily scarce. There's no other class of investment where the only limit on yield is "people would actively prefer to live in a cardboard box than pay the market price".
>> No. 83516 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 9:14 am
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>>83512
>If house prices crash, an entire generation will lose their pensions
How so? If your pension fund isn't being invested in diverse assets they're doing it wrong.
>> No. 83517 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 9:22 am
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>>83513
So what you're saying is, nobody should be allowed to own more than 3 houses?
>> No. 83518 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 9:58 am
83518 spacer
>>83516

A large proportion of institutional investors are heavily involved in property, either through direct investment or indirect vehicles like OEICs. There has been a broad increase in property investment, because of the poor yields on offer elsewhere. Many individual investors are depending on liquidating the value of their own home by downsizing or have a small buy-to-let investment.

Most corporate pension funds are running severe deficits and are extremely fragile. BT, Lloyds, BAE and many other FTSE 100 companies have pension liabilities that exceed their market cap. If these funds need to be bailed out by their corporate owners, then profits will have to be poured into pension payments rather than dividends. Reduced blue-chip dividends will worsen the deficits of other pension funds, creating a vicious cycle. If these companies renege on their pension obligations, then the burden will fall on the exchequer.

The whole thing is a house of cards. It wouldn't take much to bring the whole thing crashing down.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pinch-Boomers-Childrens-Future-Should/dp/1786491222/
>> No. 83519 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 10:32 am
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>>83518
>A large proportion of institutional investors are heavily involved in property, either through direct investment or indirect vehicles like OEICs.
This is mainly commercial property, which doesn't have the same necessity attached to it. It's not a disaster if John Lewis can't come to town and have to wait a few years for the next development to arrive, whereas most people do actually need a home to live in on most days.

>Many individual investors are depending on liquidating the value of their own home by downsizing or have a small buy-to-let investment.
If you want a pension, pay into a pension. If you want a home, buy a house.

>If these companies renege on their pension obligations, then the burden will fall on the exchequer.
Alternatively, let them fail and the ladder-pulling cunts can live with the consequences of their choices for a change.
>> No. 83520 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:03 am
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>>83519

>Alternatively, let them fail and the ladder-pulling cunts can live with the consequences of their choices for a change.

>>83512

>We can't just tell the old to go fuck themselves, because the retired and soon-to-be retired substantially outnumber and outvote the young.
>> No. 83521 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:10 am
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>>83518
>If these funds need to be bailed out by their corporate owners, then profits will have to be poured into pension payments rather than dividends.
That's what happens when your chickens cone home to roost. The deficits only really exist in the first place because those companies were paying out more dividends instead of paying more into the pension schemes.
>> No. 83522 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:11 am
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>>83520
Maybe if someone actually offered the young a reason to vote they would do so.
>> No. 83523 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:24 am
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>>83522
Maybe, but I doubt it.
>> No. 83524 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:37 am
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>>83523
Doesn't really matter anyway. With all the democratic backsliding going on, ARE TREEZA will have made herself empress before the next election is due.
>> No. 83525 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 5:29 pm
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>>83509
What's with all the greentexting, have I gotten lost and ended up in the otherplace?

>>83510
Keep in mind that this 'expensive house' is just a place large enough to raise a family if we're looking at the average homeowner. The fashion on retirement appears to be either selling it off and moving to sunnier climates (if you can afford it), selling it cheap to one of the kids to have their own family while you downsize or, selling it and downsizing to one of the many small unaffordable properties the government has been building.

None of these things are particularly sinister.

>>83515
>The only way to permanently break that boom-and-bust cycle is to glut the housing market beyond the point of scarcity, by building vast quantities of mid- and high-rise flats in the southeast.

How about we start building housing (and jobs) across the country instead of feeding the London megalopolis.
>> No. 83526 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 5:43 pm
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>>83522
>Maybe if someone actually offered the young a reason to vote they would do so.

Well silly internet memes and messiah-like figures emerging every 10 years seems to be working. Maybe if we started making general elections and referendums a bi-monthly thing with celebrity candidates.

>>83524
Is this that how drafting post-EU law thing or do we have something else labour is being completely spineless about?
>> No. 83527 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 7:44 pm
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>>83521
>The deficits only really exist in the first place because those companies were paying out more dividends instead of paying more into the pension schemes.

That's a very simplistic way of looking at things. The rules of the scheme and of agreeing a deficit recovery plan with the Regulator wouldn't allow it because they're not permitted to make an excessive contribution that could harm the growth prospects of the sponsoring employer, which is exactly what would happen if they scrapped their dividends; the shares in Provident Financial fell by 60% in part because they withdrew dividends recently.

If you want to know why pension schemes are in deficit look to quantitative easing sending gilt yields plummeting, as these form part of the actuarial calculation. Look to increased longevity. Look to Lamont and his contribution holidays. Look to Brown and his pension tax raid. Look to the introduction of pensions freedoms and transfer values from defined benefit schemes reaching record highs, meaning a record number of people are transferring out of the scheme and the underlying assets may have to be sold to fund this at a poor point in the market. Look to the fact that schemes are increasingly choosing low growth investment strategies after getting burnt after the crash. Look to the fact that if the scheme is in deficit then it gives the sponsoring employer to say the scheme is too costly and burdensome which they can use as an excuse to close the scheme or reduce the benefits on offer.

Don't go HERPY DERPY PAY DA DIVIDENDS because of an overly simplistic article you read in this vein on the Guardian, which was little more than their standard dog whistling to the financially and economically illiterate.
>> No. 83528 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 8:18 pm
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>>83526
>Is this that how drafting post-EU law thing or do we have something else labour is being completely spineless about?
A combination of the changes to electoral boundaries, the Henry VIII rules of the Great Repeal, the new committee rules which no longer tie representation to caucus size and allow the government to ensure favourable membership, the restrictions on union activity, the curtailment of information rights (and exemption of the government therefrom), the unchecked expansion of the surveillance state (and exemption of the government therefrom), restricting enforcement of human rights (and, again, exemption of the government therefrom), etc.
>> No. 83529 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 9:15 pm
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>>83528
>A combination of the changes to electoral boundaries

Ugh, and all your complaints go on like this. There was me expecting some drastic and as of yet unheard of political reform but it's either strengthening the executive (i.e. cabinet) on a temporary basis, crying about a minor loss of labour electoral advantage or talking about civil/economic liberties.

Save it for the British Bill of Rights debate in 2022.

And unless you are expecting some drastic changes on the national and international scene over the next few years she would be a Queen. If you want a spooky title then call her Lord Protector.
>> No. 83530 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 10:25 pm
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>>83529
>it's either strengthening the executive (i.e. cabinet) on a temporary basis,
Yep, a "temporary basis". They'll definitely weaken the executive again afterwards, because governments always tend to weaken their own power. While we're at it, I've got a cracking bridge to show you.

>crying about a minor loss of labour electoral advantage
Well, if the Tories say there's an electoral advantage then there must be one.

>or talking about civil/economic liberties.
Yeah, what silliness. Small erosions in these never caused any harm. It's not like there's an established pattern of behaviour when that happens or anything.
>> No. 83531 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 12:29 am
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Pensions as a whole seem a bit dodgy. I can't quite put my finger on why, but whether public or private they seem a bit house-of-cards ish.

Wonder if there's any research on scrapping state pensions and paying the elderly some kind of generalized benefit funded from general taxation, for example broadening ESA so that the criteria are "or over X age and under X income" and then paying that out instead. Politically impossible, obviously, but tempting.
>> No. 83532 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 3:09 am
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>>83531
Where do you think money comes from? Pensions can't be funded that way.

A smart thing to do would have been to create the oil fund of the Norwegians. But we hate "big governments."
>> No. 83534 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 3:46 am
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>>83531
>Pensions as a whole seem a bit dodgy. I can't quite put my finger on why, but whether public or private they seem a bit house-of-cards ish.

A [money purchase] pension is literally an investment wrapper. An ISA is an investment wrapper. An investment bond is an investment wrapper.

You can invest in funds via a pension. You can invest in funds via a stocks and shares ISA. You can invest in funds via an investment bond.

They differ in the way they are treated for tax on the way in, whilst invested and on the way out. Pensions benefit from tax relief on the way in, tax efficient growth whilst held and you can take 25% out tax free at the end once you reach the minimum pension age. The main advantage is your employer can contribute on your behalf.

That's really all there is to it. People like to spread a myth that they're complex because they haven't even remotely bothered trying to understand them.
>> No. 83535 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 4:01 am
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>>83532
>Where do you think money comes from?
Within the context of this line of thinking, taxes. (Distinct from the actual process of creating new money. I mean, this should be revenue neutral or save money on admin.)
In the state context it might just involve a language switch (from "NI contributions" to "Taxes") since as I gather in practice it basically works like that anyway.

Thinking is slightly muddled by trying to understand how private pensions are supposed to work. If NI contributions actually went into a specific fund and state pensions were exclusively funded by that (and if it was empty, treasury didn't step in), then it would probably make more sense, since even if the fund was running fine right now it would be tempting to say "No, merge this with general taxation/expenditure" to simplify things. (i.e. your pension contributions - random figure say 10% - end, but you pay - say - 10% extra tax. end result is you're paying the same, but rather than going into "your fund" it just goes to the treasury, and then 50 years from now the treasury just supports you rather than going "Okay, let's take a look in your fund...")
>> No. 83536 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 4:12 am
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>>83534
I mean, if your investment loses money for one reason or another and that is a bit dodgy.
The complexity illusion really arises from the impression of security and long-termism combined with the reality of being a financial investment where actually there's a possibility you put money in and it disappears. (versus holding money yourself and merely having it devalue.)
>> No. 83537 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 5:21 am
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>>83531

>Wonder if there's any research on scrapping state pensions and paying the elderly some kind of generalized benefit funded from general taxation, for example broadening ESA so that the criteria are "or over X age and under X income" and then paying that out instead. Politically impossible, obviously, but tempting.

We pretty much already have that. The basic state pension is a maximum of £122.30, but Guarantee Pension Credit tops up your income to a minimum of £159.35 regardless of your national insurance contributions history. You can also claim Housing Benefit and Council Tax Reduction on top, plus a few extra bits like a bus pass and the Winter Fuel Payment.

This creates a slightly odd situation - an unemployed 64 year old gets £73.10 a week in JSA, so their cash income more than doubles the day they turn 65. Given the troublingly short life expectancy of the long-term unemployed, it seems a bit cruel to me.
>> No. 83538 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 5:52 am
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>>83535
NI contributions are basically a tick-box exercise. The only think that's really distinct about them is benefit eligibility. Technically there's a separate fund, and this pays mainly for pensions unless it's loaned to the government, but in reality that's a paper exercise and NICs might as well just be regarded as a tax by any other name.
>> No. 83539 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 8:00 am
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>> No. 83541 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 12:55 pm
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Meanwhile, at the Conservative conference:

>Boris asked me to give you this.
>> No. 83542 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 5:58 pm
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>>83541
Apparently she coughed a lot and some of the letters fell down.

Metaphorical.
>> No. 83543 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 6:08 pm
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>>83542
She said some quite interesting things in that speech, which of course nobody will remember.

Don't you think she looks tired?
>> No. 83544 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 7:26 pm
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Lads, what if you had to give one of the most important speeches of your career with the nations cameras watching but on the day you wake up with a cold?

I mean surely politicians have advanced beyond the point of strepsils and covonia by now. I'd at least reach for some lemon and ginger tea despite hardly ever thinking about such nightmare scenarios.

>>83543
The extra two billion for new social housing doesn't deserve comment if you ask me. We've had governments talk about this before while doing nothing in reality to sort it and translated into 25k more social housing by 2021 it seems like a drop in the bucket to the growth in demand.
>> No. 83545 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 7:58 pm
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>>83544
Making Organ Donation an Opt-Out rather than an Opt-In is causing uproar.
>> No. 83546 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 8:34 pm
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>>83545

Obviously, but it's basically the only thing I like.
>> No. 83547 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 8:46 pm
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>>83545

Sorry to double post, but you inspired me to go over to the Mail Online and have a gander at the comments; perhaps the most mental I've ever seen on there. It's like they're from the fourteenth century. I just have to remember they aren't representative.

Are they?
>> No. 83548 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 9:11 pm
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>>83547

Last time someone said "don't worry about the Daily Mail comments, they're not representative" we ended up with Brexit.
>> No. 83549 Anonymous
4th October 2017
Wednesday 10:57 pm
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>>83544
http://www.housing.org.uk/press/press-releases/national-housing-federations-response-to-theresa-mays-announcement-on-socia/
>> No. 83550 Anonymous
5th October 2017
Thursday 9:11 pm
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Now that people have got over the nonsense, they're actually paying attention to what she actually said. Some thought it sounded a bit like something out of The West Wing. Then they realised that it actually was something out of The West Wing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/has-theresa-may-lifted-speech-west-wing/

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