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>> No. 8631 Anonymous
6th April 2021
Tuesday 11:22 am
8631 How do people become wealthy?
I think I have a substantial gap in my knowledge that exists somewhere between personal finance and economics. Let me explain:

On the one side, there's literature on personal wealth, which ranges from "think yourself rich"-type snake oil to the lowest common denominator investment and savings advice. The better books here tend to be conservative and with a focus on basic financial stability and building "nest eggs" more than any analysis of how people actually accrue greater levels of wealth.

On the other side, I regularly read big-picture economic studies offering useful but still fairly broad observations like:
- the majority of wealth in the world is inherited
- people we think of as highly successful entrepreneurs often benefit indirectly from tremendous government (public) investment, either at the earlier, riskier stages of development or later when technologies are pushed to private markets
- social and cultural capital are important factors in accumulating wealth, and your class background can impact your earnings throughout your life even if you go to similar universities and work in similar industries
- certain countries are better settings for general social mobility and equality, but not necessarily becoming highly wealthy

What seems to be missing here is: how do the "socially mobile" become wealthy without large inheritances? What industries do they work in? Do they find a niche and start businesses? What sacrifices do they make to get there, and what did they have upon starting? How much must people rely on "angel investors" and already wealthy people? How far up the economic ladder can someone realistically expect to scale from a particular background, like say, a traditional working class family?

I feel like this is a difficult topic to properly look into because a) it draws attention to inequality and lack of meritocratic rewards, b) drawing attention to a niche would either immediately devalue it or it has already been capitalised on, c) research tends towards extremes of either social mobility as a whole or the case studies of the ultra-wealthy, and d) social mobility is generally on the decline, and there are fewer examples to study.

So where do I go for this, .gs? Where are the economic studies of how people from ordinary backgrounds make their wealth?
62 posts and 10 images omitted. Expand all images.
>> No. 8865 Anonymous
15th June 2021
Tuesday 12:03 am
8865 spacer
>>8863
>They'd do it at home for free if they could, and that's why they're good enough at it to get paid more than we do.
You've got a rosy worldview. How are you managing to avoid working, or even hearing people whinge about jobs with cronyism or lazy and incompetent management?
>> No. 8866 Anonymous
15th June 2021
Tuesday 12:18 am
8866 spacer
I distinctly remember watching some video of some quality control people on an assembly line in the 70s or 80s testing electronics and thinking that if they had the radio on it would be my ideal job: boring, predictable, rote actions (plug it in, if it loads then box it, if it doesn't then chuck it) that you could do while daydreaming away to yourself. Unfortunately jobs like that no longer seem to exist (insofar as they ever did), so you're stuck with stuff that demands a much higher level of engagement and awareness, making it much more difficult to just compartmentalise away work and then come home to live your life.

Something like that seems much preferable to me (as a would be "creative" type) than the very popular idea of making your job your hobby. I've never liked that, since it would seem to logically follow that the opposite is also true: your hobby is now work. You can't take a break from it for a while and do something else, you can't pursue your own interests on a whim, you can't compartmentalise it as an escape from the bills and boredom of daily life. When you can't be bothered anymore, you're not just sick of work, you're sick of something you once loved.
Especially in the internet age, where you can make a living by streaming, or doing art, or whatever. You wind up piling on extra problems: You have to create for an audience and for an algorithm, rather than purely for yourself, and people who make a full time job out of their hobby can wind up crowding out those who're only in it for fun since they can afford higher production values, pushing everything in a more homogeneous direction as a result, discouraging people from taking a go at things themselves when they could just get a job and then pay someone else to do it on their behalf.
I suppose what I'm saying is: bring back the work-life balance and tedious manufacturing jobs. A very original and no-doubt unpopular proposal, but not one that's likely to make anybody rich.
>> No. 8867 Anonymous
15th June 2021
Tuesday 12:46 am
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>>8866

I'm a very important highly educated science person at the forefront of the covid response but the reality of my job is very much like that. Pipette this here, pipette that there, put that tube in that rack and that one in that rack. And that's hands on as far as lab work is concerned these days.

Re: the broader gist of the thread, or at least, the direction the OP wants it to go in:

I think you are missing the wood for the trees a bit here. You are asking how exactly people go about acheiving their fortune, but the point is when so many people are telling you it's all pretty much up to the cold, unfeeling personified concept of entirely random chance (or quantum determinism or whatever hair splitting rationale you subscribe to) is that there is no single, reliable way. A lot of different people just got extremely lucky because of the way entropy as a concept affects economic systems and game theory and all that high level wank.

The point is there's really no way to intentionally break into the realms of the Elon Musks or the Jeff Benzos. You can do pretty well for yourself if you put your head down and study and you know the right places to go to do it and you know the right places to go after that. But you're not going to make your genetic line into aristocracy by concious effort, and that's basically the end of it.
>> No. 8868 Anonymous
15th June 2021
Tuesday 1:20 am
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>>8865
They don't like the office politics, but they like the actual job responsibilities. If they were doing the job for free at home, like I mentioned, there would be far less politics. Checkmate, atheists.
>> No. 8869 Anonymous
15th June 2021
Tuesday 12:56 pm
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>>8866

>Unfortunately jobs like that no longer seem to exist

Search Universal Jobmatch for "production operative" or "manufacturing operative". Everyone's desperate for staff because the Bulgmanians have gone home and the natives would rather sign on.

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>> No. 8729 Anonymous
18th April 2021
Sunday 12:42 am
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Previously on Britfags: The Origin

It's exciting times as I've now saved up enough for a deposit on a small house for myself. It took 3 years of saving, living in a tiny flat, cutting corners where I can and corona-induced savings and market returns. Even chased meagre bonuses at work and sold holiday time.

Only no. In my excitement I forgot about all the other bullshit with surveyors, legal fees, any repair work etc. It looks like I'll need another £10k just when things are opening up again.

Is there a way out of this predicament? Looking at the market I'm about to be priced out of even a converted shed if I don't buy soon.
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>> No. 8749 Anonymous
19th April 2021
Monday 7:51 am
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>>8747

Deposits are not the problem. All this willndo is push prices up even further.
>> No. 8750 Anonymous
19th April 2021
Monday 7:51 am
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>>8747

Deposits are not the problem. All this willndo is push prices up even further.
>> No. 8751 Anonymous
19th April 2021
Monday 10:23 am
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>>8749
You make it sound like that's unintended.
>> No. 8752 Anonymous
19th April 2021
Monday 1:16 pm
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>>8747
I'm intrigued yet sceptical. Having crunched the numbers previously on this that extra borrowing and attached rise in the interest rate can be quite ruinous - or at least annoying. You'll own a home but it'll be like the ban has mandated that you always have hung up 'live, laugh, love' wall art.

>>87497
I agree that this could push prices up but I think the actual intention isn't to sooth the 5% market at all but encourage better offers in the 10% range.
>> No. 8859 Anonymous
14th June 2021
Monday 1:47 pm
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>>8777
Now I see why this policy is so good they must buy in pounds, borrow in pounds for incentive rates, why not? The houses will still be internally owned. I do see why this runs got legs

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>> No. 8769 Anonymous
25th May 2021
Tuesday 5:35 pm
8769 China National Deficit
The Chinese national deficit worth around $500-billion when a more appropriate tally would be $2-trillion annually, or 7x $2-trillion adjusted for 4% inflation. Someone tell China to crank up the printing presses because their deviation from the international fiscal median is excessively more conservative than necessary.

This suggestion may be to quadruple the national PBOC guided deficit but it in total it is merely either a aggregate tax cut of 10% or 10% increase in national government expenditures.
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>> No. 8770 Anonymous
25th May 2021
Tuesday 5:36 pm
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I'm sure by 7x $2-trillion means conversion rate from us dollar to yuan.
>> No. 8771 Anonymous
25th May 2021
Tuesday 5:38 pm
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Send this to Xi Jumping, they need to complete more government projects.
>> No. 8772 Anonymous
25th May 2021
Tuesday 5:42 pm
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Actually, a more exact estimate of what the total national Chinese budget deficit should be is closer to 9-trillion Yuan or something around $1.2-trillion.
>> No. 8777 Anonymous
26th May 2021
Wednesday 11:59 pm
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Who do you think they owe the money to?
>> No. 8858 Anonymous
14th June 2021
Monday 1:45 pm
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>>8777chairman mao

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>> No. 8117 Anonymous
6th January 2021
Wednesday 8:22 am
8117 spacer
Several lads here seem to have a grasp of investments and so on. Do any of you have a regular income outside "earner income"? What kind of category does it fall into, and how did you come into it?

I had a nice image, but brian isn't playing ball today. It's a list of different (very broad) types of income:
1 Earner income : work a job
2 Profit income : buy and sell
3 Interest income: lending money
4 Dividend income: owning stock
5 Rental income: renting out property
6 Capital gains : assets increase in value
7 Royalties: others use your work
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>> No. 8847 Anonymous
8th June 2021
Tuesday 4:48 pm
8847 spacer
>>8846
I'm not. The price was depressed due to the coup but now things are progressing again it's ticked back up.
>> No. 8848 Anonymous
8th June 2021
Tuesday 4:57 pm
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>>8847
In that case, no. Please don't invest in mining in Africa.
>> No. 8849 Anonymous
8th June 2021
Tuesday 5:08 pm
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>>8848
Why not? We need lithium.
>> No. 8850 Anonymous
8th June 2021
Tuesday 5:13 pm
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>>8845
I have never really had good results with punts on mining companies; they're just a crapshoot.
>> No. 8851 Anonymous
8th June 2021
Tuesday 5:28 pm
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>>8850
This one was a speculative punt during the coup but I expect the price could go up substantially if the feasibility study into the mine goes well. I'll probably hold onto it for the rest of the year and then move it into something more stable.

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>> No. 8707 Anonymous
11th April 2021
Sunday 1:40 pm
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What are reasonable investments outside of your usual stocks and shares, collective funds and buy-to-let?

I've been told that buying a row of garages can be a nice little earner.
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>> No. 8711 Anonymous
11th April 2021
Sunday 9:26 pm
8711 spacer
I've toyed with the idea of buying a holiday home, but one on a dedicated holiday park rather than buying up a potential home in a touristy location.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/94485452#/

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/103769594#/

Obviously you'd have to give the holiday park their cut and buy into the likes of their cleaning services, but you'd be getting about a grand a week during the summer holidays.
>> No. 8713 Anonymous
12th April 2021
Monday 1:57 am
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Rental yield on BTL is fucking terrible, the reason it continues to get people doing it is because every wanker on this island dreams of having a property empire.
>> No. 8714 Anonymous
12th April 2021
Monday 7:27 am
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>>8710
>outside of... funds

>>8713
>outside of... buy-to-let

Fucking hell, lads. It wasn't exactly a long OP.
>> No. 8843 Anonymous
8th June 2021
Tuesday 12:37 pm
8843 spacer
Is commercial property a good idea? I wouldn't want to be a proper residential landlord but I wouldn't mind owning a high street unit with a flat above it, like this:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-80052830.html
>> No. 8844 Anonymous
8th June 2021
Tuesday 1:06 pm
8844 spacer
>>8843
Like what?

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>> No. 8829 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 12:43 pm
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>A group of the world's richest nations reached a landmark deal on Saturday to close cross-border tax loopholes used by some of the world's biggest companies.

>The Group of Seven said it would back a minimum global corporation tax rate of at least 15%, and put in place measures to ensure taxes were paid in the countries where businesses operate. "After years of discussion, G7 finance ministers have reached a historic agreement to reform the global tax system to make it fit for the global digital age," British finance minister Rishi Sunak told reporters.

>The accord, which could form the basis of a global pact next month, is aimed at ending a decades-long "race to the bottom" in which countries have competed to attract corporate giants with ultra-low tax rates and exemptions. That has in turn cost their public coffers hundreds of billions of dollars - a shortfall they now need to recoup all the more urgently to pay for the huge cost of propping up economies ravaged by the coronavirus crisis.

>Ministers met face-to-face in London for the first time since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. According to a copy of the final agreement seen by Reuters, the G7 ministers said they would "commit to a global minimum tax of at least 15% on a country by country basis". "We commit to reaching an equitable solution on the allocation of taxing rights, with market countries awarded taxing rights on at least 20% of profit exceeding a 10% margin for the largest and most profitable multinational enterprises," the text added.

>The ministers also agreed to move towards making companies declare their environmental impact in a more standard way so investors can decided more easily whether to fund them, a key goal for Britain. Rich nations have struggled for years to agree a way to raise more revenue from large multinationals such as Google, Amazon and Facebook, which often book profits in jurisdictions where they pay little or no tax. U.S. President Joe Biden's administration gave the stalled talks fresh impetus by proposing a minimum global corporation tax rate of 15%, above the level in countries such as Ireland but below the lowest level in the G7.

https://www.reuters.com/business/g7-nations-near-historic-deal-taxing-multinationals-2021-06-05/

Well there goes the Irish economy.
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>> No. 8838 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 5:21 pm
8838 spacer
But how will this be bad for the Irish economy? Ireland isn't in the G7. Neither is Luxembourg. I don't see the flag of Liechtenstein in your picture either, and I doubt any of those people are the finance minister for the Cayman Islands. Tax havens, for now at least, will be entirely unaffected.
>> No. 8841 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 5:47 pm
8841 spacer
>>8838
The G7 has the heft to direct what happens in the global economy and particularly when rest of the G20 get on board with it. That's why it meets.

If the G7 creates a system to ensure that 20% is paid in the market then the advantages offered to service multinationals in locating in tax havens disappears. Specifically the likes of Big Tech.
>> No. 8842 Anonymous
6th June 2021
Sunday 4:26 pm
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>>8841
Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

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>> No. 8814 Anonymous
2nd June 2021
Wednesday 8:15 pm
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Mods are asleep, post budgets. Don't forget to comment on budgets and suggest budgetary improvements.

Some explainers for mine:
-Savings go off budget.
-I budget an £800~ fund for 'circumstances' i.e. odd unexpected costs.
-10% of my budget is for dating but in reality, I get two takeaways and then the rest goes into savings.
-Christmas seems excessive but I'm putting £100 because it's a round number I can put into an investment fund.

I don't really take holidays because I'm saving for a home but if I'm visiting my parents then I'll just raid my dating budget. I'll probably start letting it accrue soon rather than it going into savings so I can see the world/mates or so otherwise be ready for the massive amounts of money relationships can drain.
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>> No. 8835 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 4:24 pm
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>>8834
I do wonder if there's some formula for working this out in terms of pension contributions v. return on investment. It's probably exists but I'm stupid and lazy.

The tax savings would be the main benefit in salary sacrifice but the opportunity cost and time preference etc. seems pretty steep along with locking you into a particular retirement where taking it early can carry some outrageous costs. We're all going to take early retirement in some form and likely won't be making large contributions near the end once we have to work part-time, a significant sum of money for your 60s therefore seems like a rational thing to hold. I'm not working at 75 no matter what robotic exoskeleton you give me, society can get fucked.
>> No. 8836 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 4:48 pm
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>>8835

>locking you into a particular retirement where taking it early can carry some outrageous costs

You can start taking out money from the age of 55 without penalty and with a reasonable amount of flexibility.

If you don't yet own a home, maxing out your Lifetime ISA allowance is a complete no-brainer.

https://www.gov.uk/personal-pensions-your-rights/how-you-can-take-pension

https://www.gov.uk/lifetime-isa
>> No. 8837 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 5:05 pm
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>>8831
Honestly, if I was taking home £4600 a month after tax, I'd probably put a lot of it into my pension too. It's a fucking shitton.
>> No. 8839 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 5:38 pm
8839 spacer
>>8836
Depends on your workplace pension. I'm on a defined-benefit so my pension has a 5% reduction on every year I take below state pension age.

>If you don't yet own a home, maxing out your Lifetime ISA allowance is a complete no-brainer.

Yes, we all do this but really that 1k bonus is a drop in the ocean. I would reservations if it's the entirety of your pension plan.
>> No. 8840 Anonymous
5th June 2021
Saturday 5:39 pm
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>>8835
Let's say you have £10,000 spare to invest. If you put it in an ISA then that's £10,000. If you put that into a pension then basic rate tax relief will gross that up to £12,500 and if you're a higher rate taxpayer you can claim a tax refund of a further £2,500 to make the net cost to you £7,500.

If we assume no growth and you took it out the following tax year then with the ISA you'd get your £10,000 back. With the pension if we assume it was 25% tax-free and 75% at a marginal rate of 20% then you'd receive £10,625 back so that's an immediate net uplift of 6.25% for the basic rate taxpayer and for the higher rate taxpayer a whopping 41.67%. Most higher rate taxpayers are basic rate taxpayers in retirement and many also have their personal allowance to take advantage of as well.

Let's say you leave it and it grows by 10%. The £10,000 in the ISA grows by £1,000 to £11,000. The £12,500 in the pension grows by £1,250 to £13,750. You've achieved further growth of £250 just by choosing a pension over the ISA; again if we assume 25% tax-free and 75% at basic rate tax then that £250 additional growth becomes being £212.50 net better off. You can see how this could add up over the years.

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>> No. 8778 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 3:46 am
8778 spacer
One mark to rule them all, one mark to bind them, one mark to being them all and in the darkness bind them.

A mark to unite the saboteurs, a mark to own them with debt, to own them by owning it and depending on it to own anything.
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>> No. 8780 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 3:37 pm
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I want my gold thanks.
>> No. 8781 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 3:47 pm
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>>8780

I have to say, UK bank notes are really beautifully designed.

US dollars look like prop money from a Wild West film.
>> No. 8782 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 3:54 pm
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>>8781
The yellow 100 with random photoshop styles as an overlay is particularly ugly.
>> No. 8783 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 4:42 pm
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>>8782
It really is hideous, it's like they opened paint and just took the eraser to the old design. I just don't get it.
>> No. 8808 Anonymous
28th May 2021
Friday 6:01 pm
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>>8783
It is supposed to look like ancient evil dead inscriptions to give it that official flavor.

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>> No. 3223 Anonymous
18th February 2013
Monday 7:58 pm
3223 Bitcoins
Have any of you bought Bitcoins or spoken to anybody that has?

The underlying principle of removing the role of the banking industry from transactions (or at least limiting its influence) seems noble but it stinks of a giant scam IMO.
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>> No. 8803 Anonymous
28th May 2021
Friday 4:28 pm
8803 spacer
>>8802
The coins are, the kit might not be. Unless they bought the miners on credit.
>> No. 8804 Anonymous
28th May 2021
Friday 4:28 pm
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>>8802

The bitcoin is undeniably the proceed of a crime, but is there any way to prove the hardware is?

Is this just one of those nasty little laws that means once you're proven to be a money-making criminal, anything purchased by you after the date of the proven crime becomes state property?
>> No. 8805 Anonymous
28th May 2021
Friday 5:31 pm
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>>8804

>Is this just one of those nasty little laws that means once you're proven to be a money-making criminal, anything purchased by you after the date of the proven crime becomes state property?

Not quite, but the courts do have fairly broad powers. In this case, after conviction the court could issue a confiscation order for the coins, or if they aren't recoverable other assets equivalent to the amount believed to be earned through criminal behaviour.

You don't necessarily have to be convicted of a crime to be subject to an unexplained wealth order, only reasonably suspected of having been involved in or connected to organised crime. An unexplained wealth order essentially reverses the burden of proof - if you can't show that you made your money legitimately, the court can confiscate it.

To be fair, the courts do use these powers quite sparingly and every case I've seen has involved utterly blatant criminality.
>> No. 8807 Anonymous
28th May 2021
Friday 5:59 pm
8807 spacer
Bitcoin is a
1. Penny stock pump and dump that can be traded off exchanges
2. A currency that is difficult to counterfeit
3. A credit for internets
>> No. 8809 Anonymous
29th May 2021
Saturday 8:45 pm
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>>8804
As always, laws are not self-enforcing, so the police would likely just seize it anyway and leave the crims to sue to get it back.

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>> No. 8784 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 6:01 pm
8784 Recovery Stocks
I'm feeling guilty about taking the piss out of Cineworld - particularly as their parallel meme stock, AMC is booming today.

What shall we invest in for the recovery ladm9s?
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>> No. 8786 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 6:56 pm
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>>8785
Do you know what, I think those are fantastic choices.

Surprised Greggs isn't in the OP list.
>> No. 8787 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 7:04 pm
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Airlines - no, really. Jet2, Ryanair, probably TUI.

Hospitality suppliers, though I don't know who is floated and who isn't.

Craft beer companies. Nobody drinks craft beer without anyone to see them do it.
>> No. 8788 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 7:32 pm
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>>8787
Of all the airlines out there, Jet2 are the one that stick out for me and I don't know why. Tell me why you think they're good, please?
>> No. 8789 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 7:53 pm
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National Express, Wetherspoons, Kier Group, John Wood Group.

The share price of Drax has rocketed since the sharp fall from last year. I don't know if there's any other power generation companies that may be worth looking at now.
>> No. 8790 Anonymous
27th May 2021
Thursday 8:02 pm
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>>8788

They are the only UK airline identified by the CAA to have refunded all of their customers money during the pandemic without significant delay, and indeed are one of the only UK airlines with the means and reserve funds to actually refund all customers without dipping into other customer deposits like other airlines have been doing. That alone has generated a huge amount of good faith for customers and potential customers - I'm willing to bet the reason Jet2 sticks out to you is because you've seen or heard people talking about how well they've been treated by them, customer service wise.

They are the only airline that chose to postpone any operation until the 23rd of June, the date at which the government said flying was "definitely" ok. They're genuinely out to create a good experience for the customer, to the extent of them rather losing a month or two of revenue if it meant not risking having to cancel peoples holidays on extremely short notice. And people remember that sort of thing, I think they have earned a LOT of customer loyalty from the way they have handled things, in contrast to other airlines. Can you imagine any other airline that actually puts the customer first as a legitimate business model? BA tries to, but for what they charge it's mostly a facade.

On top of that they're just an airline with huge potential, running parallel but separate airline and package holiday businesses means there's built in risk aversion, plus plenty of opportunity to upsell.

They also own all their own planes - throughout the pandemic they have been able to sit and happily pay ground fees and basically not much else, whereas everyone else owes banks a fuckload of money for wet and dry lease planes on top of that. If they didn't already have money in the coffers they have more than three billion in assets. They also used to be Dart Group which included the haulage firm Fowler Welch, but the sale of that has basically paid for the losses incurred in the pandemic.

All in all they're an airline that bends over backwards to be a Nice Experience, and the contrast between that and being herded onto a Ryanair I think is something that passengers notice.

I'm not saying Jet2 stock will make you a millionaire anytime soon, but I don't see how it's not going to go up once they've got passengers again.

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>> No. 8626 Anonymous
5th April 2021
Monday 10:50 pm
8626 New Tax Year
Lads I forgot it's new years eve. What fund should I put 4k on for this year?

I'm considering ASI Latin American Equity to have some exposure to emerging markets but it would make me a slave to US yields. Might instead just put it all on FTSE250 if we're going to have a sharp recovery this year.
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>> No. 8724 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 10:59 pm
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>>8721

You need to think long term, that's what tracker funds are all about. Will you lose money tomorrow, next week, next month? Probably, maybe. Will you lose money over the next ten or fifteen years? Probably not, and you'll be slightly to mostly better off as compared to it sitting in an savings ISA.
>> No. 8773 Anonymous
26th May 2021
Wednesday 2:16 am
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>>8721
Time to produce a crash, politic fight now!
>> No. 8774 Anonymous
26th May 2021
Wednesday 7:33 am
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>>8722
Inflation...
>> No. 8775 Anonymous
26th May 2021
Wednesday 8:16 am
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>>8774
What do you mean?
>> No. 8776 Anonymous
26th May 2021
Wednesday 10:22 am
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>>8773
>>8774
That was last week. But thanks for letting me know the bonus has gone in today.

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>> No. 8760 Anonymous
11th May 2021
Tuesday 10:20 am
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After expressing a general interest in markets and trading, i was reccomended Apiaryfund & The5ers as risk free funds that teach the basics of FOREX trading before offering you the chance to trade on their behalf.

The first, Apiaryfund, seem very susicious in that it's expensive training program revolves round gaining 'experience points', some of the requirements for which include posting on the community forum, making numerous orders per level and i suspect inviting new members to the program. It reeks of Pyramid/MLM, whereby the system generates low quality market orders for the higher level members to exploit (i don't know if it actually works like that) - they apparently have organised trading sessions where they all do it together.

The second, The5ers I'm losing energy to bother delving into. Though a third of the team is involved in socialnetworking and search engine optimisation, making me think training-customers are a larger part of their business plan than trading profits.

Perhaps i'm cynical - it just feels like unless you know what you're doing, most of the prospective 'traders' will fail to meet the requirements for funding thus lose the value they invested in training.

Does anyone have experience getting into this sort of thing as an interested newbie?
Beyond the obvious "Don't invest what you can't afford to lose", how trade??

https://apiaryfund.com/about/[/spoiler]
https://the5ers.com/about-the5ers/[/spoiler]
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>> No. 8761 Anonymous
11th May 2021
Tuesday 10:34 am
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I think I recall there's an Economics Explained video that goes into this. He has a couple of blind spots on certain subjects but does a good job explaining the theory behind most things.

The gist of what I remember is you were pretty much right that it has a bit in common with MLM type stuff, but the reason it works as a market is because currency is an inherently valuable thing in its own right. There's no reason to be the one proverbially left holding the ball when the music stops, because the music will never stop.

Contrast that with crypto, in which it's only valuable as an investment to ultimately exchange back into money- If everyone wanted to cash out, it'd instantly become worthless, because there'd be nobody to sell it to (because it's not a good investment (because there's nobody buying it (because it's not a good investment (because there's nobody to sell it to (because...))))) You get the point.
>> No. 8762 Anonymous
11th May 2021
Tuesday 10:39 am
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>FOREX trading

On the one hand FOREX is a total mugs game and you're obviously dealing with a scam. On the other, you can't even capitalise 'i' so I'd rather you lose your money.
>> No. 8763 Anonymous
11th May 2021
Tuesday 11:26 am
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>>8762
Didn't we already have a thread on FOREX? Oh here it is. >>/news/21381
>> No. 8764 Anonymous
12th May 2021
Wednesday 12:01 am
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>>8760
>training-customers are a larger part of their business plan than trading profits

This. Anyone I know that has come up with a sure-fire system to work any markets keeps it to themselves; you have to wonder why all these companies are so into the training angle.

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>> No. 3840 Anonymous
19th September 2013
Thursday 10:03 pm
3840 Pensions
The OFT have come out and said that many old (i.e. set up before 2001) pension schemes have high charges and offer savers poor value for money. They've also suggested a cap for auto-enrolment schemes, but it's going to be an almost meaningless gesture as you'd be very hard pressed to find a provider offering auto-enrolment terms with annual management charges greater than 1% anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24153012

The pension scheme I'm in at work (contribution: 5% employer, 5% employee gross) has management charges of 0.6%, which I'm alright with as it's less than I'd get if I was investing in collectives through an ISA.

However, I've put the charges and contribution details into Invidion's pension calculator for an idea of what I'd get when I'm 65, 40 years from now, and if my salary increases in line with National Average Earnings and I took the 25% tax-free lump sum I'd be looking at a pension in today's terms of 27.5% of my current salary. If I wanted a pension that would be about two-thirds of what I'm earning now then I'll need to contribute, assuming the employer contribution stays at 5%, 15% gross (12% net) of my salary every year for the next four decades. This does depend on what annuity rates will be like then and I'd also be getting the State Pension, as long as they haven't upped the age you receive it to 80 by then.

If it wasn't for the tax relief and my employer matching my contributions then I doubt I'd bother and I'd look into other ways to support myself while I'm in retirement. What about you lads? What are your thoughts on pensions? In my opinion to have any form of decent retirement income you're at the mercy of your employer offering a good pension scheme.
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>> No. 8727 Anonymous
17th April 2021
Saturday 11:22 am
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>>8726
This sort of thing has happened before. It's not too dissimilar from other bubbles.
>> No. 8728 Anonymous
17th April 2021
Saturday 12:15 pm
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>>8727
TLP coin has been trading for about 3 years now.
>> No. 8733 Anonymous
18th April 2021
Sunday 7:22 am
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>>8726

Wish I'd had the foresight to mine, rather than buy a shitty cheap netbook laptop with no computer power.
>> No. 8734 Anonymous
18th April 2021
Sunday 9:08 am
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>>8575

Fuck the person who thought this was an appropriate take.

>The amount the government has to spend on state benefits will fall by £1.5bn by 2022, partly because of under-65s dying of Covid, forecasts suggest.
>> No. 8745 Anonymous
18th April 2021
Sunday 5:12 pm
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>>8733
I managed to mine Doge in the first weekend, when mining with a laptop CPU was actually possible. Hopefully when the Blockchain syncs I will still be able to access them... Not a life changing amount but still nice to find on an old HDD.

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>> No. 8608 Anonymous
22nd March 2021
Monday 7:35 pm
8608 Leaking and Landlords.
What can someone actually demand of a landlord? Or in my case, landlady? There's a quite terrible leak in the bathroom, which, if the showerhead should find itself pointing the wrong way, can induce a torrent of water into the lounge-dining room beneath, but certainly takes in water whenever I have a shower. Now the landlady has suggested the quite insane idea of simply placing a large piece of clear perspex over the back of the shower, so that you can "still see the colour" of the tiling, that colour being genuine 80s avocado, no less, whilst she conveniently forgets the black mould that would spring up behind it, and shortly look like a not-sexy H. R. Geiger drawing. However, even my derranged, broken, barely functional brain knows that a won't do, even though it might well stop the immediate leaking. So is that all she has to do, what someone with a half-rational mind would not call "the bare minimum"? For what it's worth she lives in the way-down bit of the country and I'm in the quite-far-up bit.

I'm not entirely sure if this qualifies as "economics", but it seemed the best fit overall. Further apologies if this is barely sensible, but I'm mad.
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>> No. 8609 Anonymous
22nd March 2021
Monday 7:41 pm
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https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/landlord_and_tenant_responsibilities_for_repairs

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/what_to_do_if_your_private_landlord_wont_do_repairs
>> No. 8624 Anonymous
2nd April 2021
Friday 12:37 am
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In the UK your landlord is legally required to give you a safe, functional and working house and pay for ALL the repairs for your house. However there are sketchy landlords who refuse to do this and fulfil their legal requirements.

You can politely ask, but if you apply pressure by insisting angrily or lengthy, or even worse, reporting them to the council which regulates them, your landlord could and most likely will retaliate by giving you a revenge eviction. The government banned no fault evictions in 2019 under Theresa May being in power in an attempt to tackle revenge evictions, but just because it's illegal doesn't stop it from happening.

In the UK an eviction is done via a Section 21 that gives you 6 months notice to leave the property. Given that you have a sketchy landlord who is breaking the law and is a cheapskate, your landlord already lacks morals, so I recommend you don't apply pressure or you'll be given an illegal eviction.
>> No. 8625 Anonymous
2nd April 2021
Friday 12:57 am
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>>8624
To add to this, water damage like this can be incredibly destructive to a building if it occurs long term, never mind the mould problem that would spread to the joists behind the clearly no longer water proof wet cell. So on top of being an irresponsible landlady, they also clearly do not care about the longevity of their investment or sustainability of their asset. Given such behaviour, you can hopefully imagine how little they'll care about you.

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