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>> No. 422516 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 12:05 am
422516 Christmas 2018
It's the first of December. It's that time of year again.

Open your advent calendar chocolates, listen to Andrew, put up your tree this weekend, put off the present shopping for at least a fortnight, surviving the Christmas party at work, watching shit on telly.

You know the drill by now, lads.
Expand all images.
>> No. 422517 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 7:25 am
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xyjk4sDxnI
Music to my ears
>> No. 422518 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 8:22 am
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Annual update on Andrew: he's running a start-up called Dent Reality.

https://www.dentreality.com

https://twitter.com/andrewprojdent

https://medium.com/@andrewprojdent
>> No. 422519 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 8:38 am
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>>422518

An iOS developer. Yeah, that sounds about right.
>> No. 422520 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 9:54 am
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>>422517

It's a bit strange, but Andrew's song triggers a really strange feeling of peace and joy whenever I hear it.

He's a good lad really, isn't he?
>> No. 422521 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 10:05 am
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>>422520

He's the one thing that brings us all together at Christmas.

He's clearly a really nice chap. He'd probably fit in quite well here.
>> No. 422523 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 10:23 am
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>>422521
I'm sure he'd appreciate that we have an annual tradition of listening to song every Christmas.
>> No. 422527 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 11:27 am
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>>422518

Is he related to Arthur Dent?
>> No. 422528 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 11:38 am
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>>422527
?
>> No. 422530 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 11:47 am
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>>422528
>> No. 422548 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 10:12 pm
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It's surprisingly difficult to find the Winterbells game in full screen, does anyone have the proper link?

It's only so many years until flash goes away so we need to enjoy the game like we do an elderly relative at christmas.
>> No. 422550 Anonymous
1st December 2018
Saturday 10:21 pm
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>>422548
Chrome doesn't play Flash files when loaded directly anymore. They have to be embedded.
>> No. 422562 Anonymous
2nd December 2018
Sunday 7:58 pm
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I've just managed to spill a kilogram bag of peanuts on the floor. Fuck's sake. Christmas is ruined already.
>> No. 422564 Anonymous
2nd December 2018
Sunday 10:20 pm
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>>422562
Time to get a dog.
>> No. 422566 Anonymous
2nd December 2018
Sunday 10:42 pm
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>>422564

Dogs will eat anything.
>> No. 422567 Anonymous
2nd December 2018
Sunday 11:09 pm
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>>422564
I'd recently swept the floor, so I just picked them up one by one. However, I only have dry roasted peanuts so I've lost loads of the lovely seasoning powder.
>> No. 422569 Anonymous
4th December 2018
Tuesday 12:15 pm
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I just ate some marzipan from Lidl. Ze Germans may have their Stollen down, but the marzipan log from Lidl really doesn't taste much like marzipan at all. It's bland and almost has kind of a chalky texture. It says on the wrapper that it has a 22% content of ground almonds. According to Google, good quality marzipan more commonly has between 40 and 50%.
>> No. 422604 Anonymous
5th December 2018
Wednesday 7:37 pm
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Secret Santa time. What do I get for a ladette who is somewhere around the age of 40 and spent the weekend scrapping in pubs?
>> No. 422605 Anonymous
5th December 2018
Wednesday 7:40 pm
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>>422604
Chocolate knuckledusters.
>> No. 422606 Anonymous
5th December 2018
Wednesday 7:47 pm
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>>422604

Gin
>> No. 422607 Anonymous
5th December 2018
Wednesday 7:56 pm
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>>422604
A 9ct Gold Sovereign ring with a rose on it.
>> No. 422608 Anonymous
5th December 2018
Wednesday 8:02 pm
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>>422604
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Anyeda-Womens-Wedding-Crystal-Engagement/dp/B07KRBBMNG/ref=sr_1_37?s=jewelry&ie=UTF8&qid=1544040093&sr=1-37&keywords=Sovereign+rose

Close enough.
>> No. 422609 Anonymous
5th December 2018
Wednesday 8:02 pm
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>>422604

A load of scratchcards and/or 20 Bensons.
>> No. 422620 Anonymous
6th December 2018
Thursday 9:25 am
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>>422609

Or cat accessories.
>> No. 422664 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 6:58 am
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>A charity has been banned from a primary school after one of its workers told children there is no such thing as Santa Claus.

>An assembly was meant to be about Advent but the charity worker leading it dropped her Santa bombshell ... and then invited up two children to smash a chocolate Santa and reindeer with hammers.

>Parents learned about the incident from their children, and one mum said: "To say that I am furious is an understatement." Posting on Facebook, the mum said: "I was asking my six-year-old this evening if he was planning to write a letter to Santa. He said 'there is no such thing as Santa, he is just a made up thing." The little boy went on to describe how the worker from the Mary Bass Charity broke the news about Santa, also telling children "there is no St Nicholas", and then "got a big girl and a small girl to come up in assembly and smash a chocolate Santa and a chocolate reindeer with a hammer".

>Fleet Wood Lane Primary School had a meeting for parents, with staff explaining the message is "not supported by the school and does not support the school's core views". But the parent who had posted on Facebook said the meeting had left her with questions. These included:

>* What is the safeguarding protocol regarding a stranger coming into school with two hammers?

>And:

>* Who do I bill for the therapy my emotionally damaged child may need to rectify all the brainwashing that he has been subjected to this entire term?"

https://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/charity-workers-bombshell-for-primary-school-kids-as-she-says-santa-doesnt-exist-9056324/
>> No. 422669 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 11:29 am
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>>422664

Not the news thread this, but:

>>* Who do I bill for the therapy my emotionally damaged child may need to rectify all the brainwashing that he has been subjected to this entire term?"


So telling children the - vastly agreed upon - truth that Santa doesn't exist is brainwashing?

What next? Do you also not want them to learn about gravity in physics?
>> No. 422670 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 11:37 am
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>>422669
> gravity
It's intelligent falling.
>> No. 422671 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 11:54 am
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>>422669

I'd argue that convincing children in Father Christmas is actually the brainwashing:

>Brianwashing. N. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.

It's a brainwashing trick to get little children to behave. Six year old are old enough to know that it's their family and friends buying the gifts anyway.
>> No. 422673 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 12:51 pm
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>>422669
Her Facebook background picture is poppies. Say no more.

https://facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003121407482

She'd get it, though.
>> No. 422674 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 12:56 pm
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My dad told me there was no Santa Claus when I was three.

I asked "Why do people say there is then?"

He said "Because people are stupid."

He wasn't wrong.
>> No. 422675 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 1:00 pm
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>>422671

>It's a brainwashing trick to get little children to behave. Six year old are old enough to know that it's their family and friends buying the gifts anyway.

I once raised eyebrows as a six year old when my parents threatened that Santa would get me nothing for Christmas, when I said, "Well then I don't ever want him to come again anyway"

I think I had a point. If Santa was going to be a cunt just because I was throwing an age appropriate temper tantrum once in a while, then why bother being nice all year in the first place.
>> No. 422676 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 1:01 pm
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>>422674
Your Dad never loved you.
>> No. 422677 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 1:05 pm
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>>422676

I gathered that when he vanished to the Channel Isles to evade taxes when I was 11 and I never saw him again. I remember the kids I knew being more upset that everyone had lied to them about something really stupid rather than the fact of there being no Father Christmas though.
>> No. 422678 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 1:15 pm
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>>422677

I think it was my older brother who first told me "Guess what, there is no Santa Claus". I must have been seven or eight and he was twelve.

I don't really remember how I dealt with the sudden shock of that realisation. But it helped me know what to make of it when my parents were telling me yet again that Santa would get me nothing for Christmas. I didn't see it as the poor parenting skills that they were at the time, but it gave me a strategic advantage to know my parents were bluffing, whilst thinking that I still believed in Santa.
>> No. 422679 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 1:33 pm
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>>422678
>poor parenting skills
Much like God, Santa is an magical omniscient figure who knows whether you have been naughty or nice and treats you accordingly. He is an excellent tool for social control that prevents the feeling of resentment against those who are really responsible. Parents would be fools not to use him.
>> No. 422680 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 2:05 pm
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>>422679

>Much like God, Santa is an magical omniscient figure who knows whether you have been naughty or nice and treats you accordingly

Ricky Gervais had a brilliant bit as part of one of his standup routines once. Sadly I can't find it on youtube.

Anyway, he was talking about how God created the Universe, and he was like, "Alright, let's put a few more galaxies there, and a couple more black holes in this corner here... and a few more nebulae right there... perfect. Wait a minute... what's happening there on Earth... what do you think you're doing there, Jimmy... WITH ANOTHER MAN?? IN THE ARSE??"

Now, Santa only has about two or three billion Christians to look after and remember if they've been cunts all year... so he isn't operating on the scale of universe creation. But still no mean feat, remembering that little Johnny in Nunthorpe set his cat's tail on fire one Saturday in February and therefore deserves no gifts for Christmas this year.
>> No. 422681 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 2:10 pm
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>>422677
Did he ever make you smash up a chocolate reindeer with a hammer, though?
>> No. 422682 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 3:33 pm
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Apparently I figured out Santa was bollocks and asked my mum as much when I was relatively young. She tried to be vague about it but I just kept asking questions until she caved. Clearly I started being a tedious pedant very young.

I'm afraid that sounds like I'm just bragging about how clever I was as a kid or whatever, so I'll add this story too - one year my granddad volunteered to be the Santa that visited my class at school, and I didn't even notice. I remember the day vividly, I sat on his knee and asked for a Power Rangers Falcon Zord and everything, and didn't even notice it was my own granddad.
>> No. 422683 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 3:52 pm
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>>422682

> and didn't even notice it was my own granddad.


Not much of a tedious pedant after all then.
>> No. 422684 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 4:04 pm
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>>422683

Well excuse me for believing in the magic of Christmas.
>> No. 422688 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 5:58 pm
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>>422684

No need to get pedantic.
>> No. 422689 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 9:03 pm
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>>422682
Was she trying to answer your questions as plausibly as possible, because she didn't have to play The Santa Professor. She could have easily have gone "I don't know dear, it's a mystery to me too".
>> No. 422690 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 9:11 pm
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>>422689

I don't remember exactly, but she's a terrible liar so she was probably just making it more obvious, regardless.
>> No. 422691 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 9:15 pm
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The Santa story is really snide on poor kids. Getting worse presents than your mates is one thing; being told that it's your fault is quite another.
>> No. 422692 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 9:20 pm
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>>422691
Poor parents are shit with money, part of the reason they're poor. Don't be surprised if the poor child has an iPad or a PS4 to go with the massive telly in their bedroom.

It's the children of hand-wringing right-on parents I feel sorry for. I heard of someone who bought their child a bat box for Christmas as they thought a present they'd actually enjoy would be too consumerist and unethical.
>> No. 422693 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 9:35 pm
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>>422692
I always suspected Reese-Mogg posted here.
>> No. 422694 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 9:53 pm
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>>422692

>Poor parents are shit with money, part of the reason they're poor. Don't be surprised if the poor child has an iPad or a PS4 to go with the massive telly in their bedroom.


This will often be the case.

Poor people aren't necessarily poor just because they have no money. But also because the money they have goes to purchases that aren't really within their means.
>> No. 422695 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 9:57 pm
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>>422694

What poor people are you lads basing this on? The ones you read about in the Mail?
>> No. 422696 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 10:05 pm
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>>422695

Not any of them, but many of my cousins lived like this when growing up. They'd have the latest games console but it'd be back down the pawn shop when the gas bill came in. I remember one lot lived off takeaways for something like a year because they didn't scrape the money together to fix the oven or buy a new one.

Even people living literally hand to mouth have aspirations for big TVs, Playstations, and nice trainers.
>> No. 422697 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 10:06 pm
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>>422695
>> No. 422698 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 10:10 pm
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So I guess what we've established from this conversation is that poor people aren't allowed nice things.
>> No. 422699 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 10:14 pm
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>>422698

Maybe if they spent their money in a different way they'd suddenly be sprung out of the minimum wage trap.

If your boss sees your kids have nice trainers he's legally prevented from paying you any more.
>> No. 422700 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 10:38 pm
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>>422699

Bare in mind this was in a time period where there was no minimum wage, no living wage, no London living wage and no such thing as a zero hour contract.

At least half my uncles claimed unemployment benefit (as it was in those days) and worked cash in hand jobs on the side. In terms of cash I imagine they were better off than a lot of people doing things honestly, they were just fucking terrible at basic household skills like budgeting and not pissing your money up the wall every night of the week.
>> No. 422701 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 11:23 pm
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>>422695
I find it tends to be the people who've never spent time around poor people who make statements like this because they've romanticised them in their heads.

When I went to college I had to walk through the local council estate to get there. Almost every house had a Sky TV dish outside and a huge wide-screen in their living rooms, far more so than people who lived outside of the estate.

It's not exactly a controversial statement to make, other than to the knee-jerk reactionaries here, that poor people tend to see material items such as a huge telly, games consoles and American style fridge freezers as status symbols. My other half is friends with a woman with six kids who doesn't work - they have eight TVs in their house; two boys share a bedroom and they've each got a TV fitted into their headboard and there's another one in there for their XBox. To most people a bedroom with three TVs would be ridiculous, but poor people see it as something to be proud of and show off.

Take that /iq/ thread as an example; a single mother who works as a hairdresser is spending £3,000 this Christmas. No doubt she will be paying it off on credit cards for at least all of 2019.
>> No. 422702 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 11:27 pm
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>>422700

>they were just fucking terrible at basic household skills like budgeting and not pissing your money up the wall every night of the week.

Poverty often gets handed down the generations of a family because your own parents had no concept of budgeting, and then you don't learn it from your parents, and you then pass on that lack of life skills to your own children.

Very hard to escape that.
>> No. 422703 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 11:41 pm
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>>422701

>It's not exactly a controversial statement to make, other than to the knee-jerk reactionaries here, that poor people tend to see material items such as a huge telly, games consoles and American style fridge freezers as status symbols.


There is a school of thought in social sciences that poor people and the middle classes have very different ideas about what it means to participate in society.

Most middle and upper class people will tell you that they believe education is the key to becoming a respected member of society. An education to them enables you to get a proper job, through which, all going well, you stand a chance of leading a decent life. An education is thus both means to an end and a status symbol in and of itself.

Among the lower classes, however, a good education is often not only out of reach financially, but there is also no value placed on it, not as a means to an end, but also not as something that would have intrinsic value. A lot of times, there is even resentment against better educated people. And making sure your kids are properly educated also takes a lot of time and effort of doing their homework with them, monitoring their progress in class, and encouraging them to pick up a book now and then, which doesn't come easy when you're trapped in a cycle of beer, fags and daytime TV.

Material status symbols, on the other hand, are more easy to obtain for the lower classes, even if it means spending half a month's benefits on a flatscreen TV. If you've got a big TV, that means you have status. Fuck them and their education and their universities and that, you've got a 40'' TV and adidas trainers.

That way, for the the middle and upper classes, participation in society hinges on your education and your professional career, whereas in the lower classes it is almost exclusively determined by the consumer goods you own.
>> No. 422704 Anonymous
7th December 2018
Friday 11:53 pm
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>>422701

>I find it tends to be the people who've never spent time around poor people who make statements like this

I spent plenty of time around poor people when I was one. I know the sort of person you're talking about, but in my experience they weren't actually poor, they were dealers.
>> No. 422706 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 2:36 am
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Why are you pillorying the poor in a Christmas thread, for goodness sake? Next you'll be telling me Tiny Tim was a cunt and I'm not having it.

My ritual this year is going to change slightly, as it'll just be me and the Missus, and I'm going to watch all of Miyazaki's Studio Ghibli movies. Porco Rosso being my favourite, so I'll save that for Xmas day proper.
>> No. 422707 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:59 am
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>>422703

> Next you'll be telling me Tiny Tim was a cunt and I'm not having it.

You can't compare an age of workhouses and debtors prisons with the world in which we live today (at least in the UK and most other civilized countries).

Which leads me to request that you, rather than I, stick it right up your christmas jumper.
>> No. 422708 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 7:01 am
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>>422701

A big telly and a (dodgy) Sky box is very cheap compared to nearly any other kind of entertainment. A 50" LCD is, what, £400 these days? You'll probably get five, maybe even ten years out of it before it dies or becomes totally obsolete. That works out to no more than £6.70 a month, which is a paltry sum even if you're paying twice that to Brighthouse. A basic Sky subscription is £20 a month, but most people I know have either got a dodgy box with cardsharing or have gone over to Kodi.

A night at the pub, the cinema, a restaurant or a gig is going to cost you at least as much as the monthly repayment on a big telly and your Sky bill combined, even without the cost of babysitting or taking the kids out with you. The very cheapest of package holidays will cost about the same as a big telly, but the telly will last for years rather than a week. A big telly will keep you entertained even when you can't afford to do anything else.

I think that the trope of "they can't be that poor because they've got a massive telly" or "they're poor because they waste all their money on a big telly" is a quite nasty bit of snobbery. They've got a massive telly because they're poor. Big TVs are Giffen goods - they substitute for more expensive alternatives. Should poor people just stare at the wall all evening instead? Would they be meaningfully better off if they had saved £200 by buying a smaller model?

Being poor is shit and I wish people would stop pretending otherwise.
>> No. 422709 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:35 am
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>>422706
>Why are you pillorying the poor in a Christmas thread, for goodness sake? Next you'll be telling me Tiny Tim was a cunt and I'm not having it.

The point was made that the kids who have it worst at Christmas aren't the poor, as their parents tend to overspend and will buy the likes of games consoles, but the children of socially conscious parents who'll buy a goat for a village in some third world shithole as their present. Unfortunately we have a few knee-jerk reactionaries who thought this was an attack on the poor so try to start a cunt-off.

Tiny Tim was clearly committing benefit fraud. It's why almost every child these days gets diagnosed as having Special Educational Needs; got to keep the benefits flowing in and getting your kid diagnosed with something is a a surefire meal ticket.

>>422708
Most paupers I know are mates with someone who sells pirated versions of films presently out at the cinema or they have Kodi. People always forget about the black market.
>> No. 422711 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 9:23 am
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>>422707

Tiny Tim's great.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcSlcNfThUA
>> No. 422712 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 10:46 am
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>>422708

I hadn't actually considered this, but I think you're absolutely right, and it applies across the board to a lot of consumer electronics.

Holidays and real world activities are expensive, so my childhood was spent camping or staring at a Gameboy. My brothers and I used to flip through dated games magazines, laughing at the extortionate prices. A new MegaDrive cartridge could cost £40-£60, yet back when we bought them we'd easily spend hundreds of hours learning every little trick or working to 100% completion. Economically it actually made a certain sense, even better if you could pick them up second hand.

I wish I could say my family were class conscious enough to go and get me a library card or enroll me on extracurriculars instead, but the fact is they weren't. It wasn't until much later in life I really joined the race.

Electronic forms of entertainment don't always have to be a timesink. Games probably furnished my mind with some nice imaginative things, a bit of skill in abstract thinking, and decent reaction times.

On the other hand, when I look back on how few options I had to really spend my time growing up (go out and play football, play computer games, or watch telly), it sort of makes sense why I felt so lost and bored for the first half of my life.

This has put me a bit of a gloomy mood.
>> No. 422719 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 12:48 pm
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>>422709

>but the children of socially conscious parents who'll buy a goat for a village in some third world shithole as their present.

That kind of thing is just fucking disgusting. You are essentially giving somebody the middle finger by saying, no, we're not getting you anything for Christmas this year, we've spent your money on a goat that's going to feed a family in some third world backwater shithole country where you will never go anyway to see if they even received their goat or if it was all just an elaborate scam. And if that picture you will be getting from that family was staged and fifteen other people got the exact same photo.


It really gets my goat, as it were.

Sage for silly pun.
>> No. 422720 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 1:01 pm
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>>422719
>some third world backwater shithole country where you will never go anyway to see if they even received their goat or if it was all just an elaborate scam. And if that picture you will be getting from that family was staged and fifteen other people got the exact same photo.

When my girlfriend was young her school did Operation Christmas Child, sending shoeboxes to a school in Romania. She got a few letters from the child who received her shoebox; her father was a doctor and she was actually relatively wealthier than my girlfriend. Then again, that entire organisation is just a front for Christian missionary work.
>> No. 422721 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 1:37 pm
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>>422708

This, a thousand times this.

I also find it pretty apalling how cunts always assume that apoor family is just shit at budgeting and fucks all their money on credit cards and shite. You don't know that to be the case at all.

When I was a young lad I wasn't exactly well off, but I had a good friend who was definitely worse off. I was an only child and both of my parents worked; so while we weren't rich we were comfortable. His dad was a joiner and his mum spent years off work with a bad back. They had three kids to look after, and they made every penny fucking count. Sure they had a big telly and a nice conservatory on their house, but that's because they scrimped and saved and went on holidays in a caravan, the kids only got any new games or anything for christmas or birthday, no exceptions. The lad was clearly very jealous of me at times for the fact my family didn't have to scrape by like that, but they clearly deserved their fucking big telly, they earned it, and if you were to tell them otherwise you're a fucking bellend.

Elitism and snobbery like that just makes me very deeply disappointed in our society to be honest.
>> No. 422723 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 1:59 pm
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>>422721
If someone is prepared to blow about ten grand on a conservatory but has to scrimp and save the rest of the time then that suggests they're bad with money more than anything.
>> No. 422725 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 2:57 pm
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>>422721
>I also find it pretty apalling how cunts always assume that apoor family is just shit at budgeting and fucks all their money on credit cards and shite.

I think that as a rule it very much is poor people who are shit at budgeting because:
A) If you have the skills not to have your pants pulled down by scams then you generally have the skills to be earning more.
B) Poverty is hereditary. If you grew up with your dad pissing it all up the wall at the local/bookies then you're going to have an uphill battle to avoid the habits.
C) You don't have that monetary cushion to cover surprise bills so you get into debt. Then you grow used to debt or otherwise your budget simply never recovers. What I'm saying is budgeting in itself requires money.

Not to say that your m8s parents weren't able to rub two pennies together to make three but it neither matches the statistics nor my own experience. My poor m8 growing up had parents with debts coming out their ears because his dad was a fucking twat with money and his mum was scared to stand up to him. Soon as we got to drinking age he developed the same problem coupled with being a horrific drunk doing absolutely nothing to help himself so we lost touch.

Happy ending: His mum abruptly walked out the house one day and that was the end of an awful marriage. Last I heard she married another bloke who was soft.
>> No. 422726 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:06 pm
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>>422725

>What I'm saying is budgeting in itself requires money.

Well exactly. Poor people aren't shit at budgeting, they don't have the outlay to do it.

It'd be easy for me to tell someone in poverty that they could buy a big bag of rice for forty quid that would last them several months and save them significant food costs vs buying smaller packs weekly, but that doesn't really help someone who only has £20 a week left in their paycheck for food for their family.
>> No. 422730 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:21 pm
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>>422726
People with a decent income don't tend to bulk food in bulk, either. I'd say the issue is more about instant gratification; you can save your pennies up to be marginally less poor or you can fritter them away making life a little bit more tolerable now.

All we've really established is that Anon had a poor friend but his parents still managed to get him nice presents for Christmas, which backs up the original assertion that the kids who have it worst at Christmas are those with middle class hand-wringing parents who'll get them a socially responsible present like a bat box instead of something the child would actually want and use.
>> No. 422731 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:22 pm
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>>422723

No lad, the dad was a joiner. He bought the materials and built the fucker himself with a couple of mates for help.

Again, see how quick to judge you are?
>> No. 422732 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:27 pm
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>>422726

Except this isn't about spending 40 quid on a bag of rice. Asda has 4kg bags of rice for under £4.

https://groceries.asda.com/product/long-grain-basmati-rice/asda-easy-cook-long-grain-white-rice/910000023376

I always buy 1kg bags of rice, which are 99p at Asda, and as a single person who only has to cook for himself, that 1kg bag of rice always lasts me up to two weeks. And I really like rice and eat it often. So a 4 kg bag of rice for four quid means your family of four's rice needs sorted for at least two weeks.

And even for 20 quid, you can buy a week's worth of groceries for a family of four. Yes, you are going to have to buy your meat and vegetables so that you can combine them into two or three different dishes, but that is what clever budgeting is. Also, some staple vegetables like bell pepper or potatoes really aren't that expensive. My local Lidl has 2.5 kg bags of potatoes for £2, and that's enough potatoes for at least two family meals. And I think I last saw their standard bag of mixed-colour bell peppers for 85p. With a bit of onion, vegetable stock and tomato puree, you can get a side dish of fried bell pepper out of that for four people.

And it's the same with clothes. Buy them so that most individual pieces of clothing go together with each other without you looking like a daft mong. You can get many different outfits out of your wardrobe that way.

Clever budgeting isn't a matter of having a lot of money. It's just a question of being clever to begin with.
>> No. 422733 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:31 pm
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>>422679
Luckily, with all the recent advent of data mining Santa might be obsolete soon.
>> No. 422736 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:38 pm
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>>422730

>People with a decent income don't tend to bulk food in bulk, either.

Yes, because they don't need to if they can comfortably afford a normal shop - they're actually the ones shit at budgeting, a middle class family could save hundreds if not thousands if they shopped more frugally.

>which backs up the original assertion that the kids who have it worst at Christmas are those with middle class hand-wringing parents

I don't give a fuck about that, I just care about everyone thinking poor people can't budget and that's why they're poor. A lot of parents skip meals to put money into their kid's Christmas fund, or worse, are tempted to go to Brighthouse or more predatory loans companies who are now thankfully being dealt with. And then people go 'but their kids have an xbox how can they be poor? bloody idiots'. A complete, mind boggling lack of empathy there.

And if they save that extra £25 a month they spend on sky and paying off their telly, then what? They have an extra £300 a month? Oooh, good for them. They've also spend an entire year sat in the house staring at the wall, entirely disconnected from the modern world.
>> No. 422738 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:46 pm
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>>422732

Even in your examples you've racked up about £8 or £9 out of £20 (11 if you've bought the rice that week) and you've accounted for about four meals plus a bowl of rice a day.

There are several slightly cynical TV shows about this exact sort of thing at the moment, where poshos and poor people swap budgets for a week. They do more than I can to convince you.
>> No. 422739 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:53 pm
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>>422736
Come off it, Jeremy. The majority of poor people are thick cunts who suffer from their own ignorance. None of your working class heroes will change that reality.

>And if they save that extra £25 a month they spend on sky and paying off their telly, then what? They have an extra £300 a month? Oooh, good for them. They've also spend an entire year sat in the house staring at the wall, entirely disconnected from the modern world.

They can get a library card and a magazine subscription with the change being put towards education. Maybe their kids can break the cycle if their raised in this kind of household even if the by-product is they spend more on food with their vastly inflated income. Incidentally:

>a middle class family could save hundreds if not thousands if they shopped more frugally.

And yet still live within their means which is what budgeting is about.
>> No. 422740 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 3:56 pm
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>>422736

>And if they save that extra £25 a month they spend on sky and paying off their telly, then what? They have an extra £300 a month? Oooh, good for them.

You don't have to get a Sky subscription in the first place. Freeview boxes start at around £50 as a one-off expense, many newer TVs even have it built in, and you'll get a lot of essential telly for free. Yes, you're going to have to do without Sky Atlantic, but most of their content is on 5 USA just a short while later. And you can cut corners on a 40'' TV, if you must have one, by buying one used or a slightly older model.
>> No. 422741 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 4:03 pm
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>>422739

>Come off it, Jeremy. The majority of poor people are thick cunts who suffer from their own ignorance.

This is really the case, from my own experience. Sadly.

You'll have people who have no problem spending 300 quid a month on fags and booze, but when it comes to things like proper food on the table, they get mad at the government for not paying them enough benefits.

I know a middle aged couple, both of them in and out of low skilled jobs and off and on benefits, and even with their tight finances, they manage to each smoke a pack of cigarettes a day and drink two or three pints in front of the telly every night. That's hundreds of quid pissed up the wall every month. Why not start there and stop smoking and drinking.

Well and they also have the 40'' TV that they're paying off. And a few other frivolous purchases.
>> No. 422742 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 4:19 pm
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You don't get it though do you. You see it as spaffing money up the wall on fags and booze, they don't need those things, those are luxuries. Sure, that's the case for you perhaps, with other things filling the dark existential void within. It's not when you know all you have to look forward to is another 20 years at the call centre or behind the till at Primark.

The essential nihilism of the working class is keeping the NHS running for fuck sake. Where do you think it'd be without all those taxes. No, the money it'd save on care doesn't outweigh it. Yes, poor people would be a fuck of a lot better off if it wasn't a tenner for a deck of cigs.

Just yet more things you think you deserve (but don't need, nyaarr, wot wot) but the working class should be disdained for enjoying. You all need a long hard word with yourselves.
>> No. 422743 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 4:45 pm
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>>422742

>You don't get it though do you. You see it as spaffing money up the wall on fags and booze, they don't need those things, those are luxuries. Sure, that's the case for you perhaps, with other things filling the dark existential void within. It's not when you know all you have to look forward to is another 20 years at the call centre or behind the till at Primark.

Well the answer to feeling a dark existential void within can't be numbing yourself with cigarettes, possibly even other drugs, and three pints in front of the telly every night.

If you're content being poor and consuming copious amounts of fags and booze every night, which will be a strain on your monthly budget any way you will look at it, then you really shouldn't give a toss anyway when other people tell you that to better your ways you must stop doing it. But if you want to escape that kind of life, it pays to listen to people giving you some of the most obvious suggestions imaginable.


>The essential nihilism of the working class is keeping the NHS running for fuck sake. Where do you think it'd be without all those taxes. No, the money it'd save on care doesn't outweigh it. Yes, poor people would be a fuck of a lot better off if it wasn't a tenner for a deck of cigs.


It's more than just weighing earned sin taxes against the additional cost of treating lung cancer, heart disease and drinking related disorders. There is a much wider loss of productivity on the whole when people can't work because they are sick due to unhealthy life habits. Lost productivity means lost income and taxes, which again means less money for government services, not just the NHS. Taxing alcohol and cigs is a start in recuperating some of the cost of the illnesses associated with their abuse, but it's pretty certain that we'd be better off not having to care for those who become addicted to booze and fags and then become a burden on the NHS and social services.

I was a chain smoker myself for twelve years. And I am university educated, mind. I, too, used cigarettes as a way of filling a void within me. I may not have been a till slave, but my life for a long time looked pretty grim nonetheless. But I have kicked the habit, for good as far as I am concerned, and my theory is that quitting smoking changes your brain metabolism in a way that you just naturally become more optimistic about yourself.

Not trying to be an overweening middle class cunt (which you will probably waste no time telling me), but again, I don't think it's all as easy as saying, let the lower classes have their fags and booze because that's all they've got.
>> No. 422745 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 5:06 pm
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>>422739
>The majority of poor people are thick cunts who suffer from their own ignorance

The level of mathematical and financial literacy in this country is shockingly low. There was a study not too long ago by the UCL Institute of Education and University of Cambridge which found that many adults could not work out one-third of £3.15, scoring noticeably worser than adults in other European nations.

I know people on six figure salaries with absolutely fuck all to show for it because they're constantly overstretching themselves and pissing away all their money, with no real idea where it's going. People drift by with no real idea what their actual expenditure is.

As a quick test, how many of you in work can actually answer most of these:-

• The size of your pension pot.
• How much you are contributing to a pension in percentage and monetary terms.
• How much your employer is contributing to your pension in percentage and monetary terms.
• Whether your employer offers a salary sacrifice arrangement for pension contributions.
• Whether your employer will increase their level of contributions.
• Where your pension monies are invested.
• The charges on your pension.
• When you plan to retire.
• How much you think you'll need to have in a pension pot to retire at that age.
>> No. 422746 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 5:09 pm
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>>422745

I'm shit at money but I can still answer all of those bar when I plan to retire (considering doing it early but have no firm plans)

It's shockingly easy with the recent push to make it so.

Doesn't really have much to do with those trapped in zero hours minimum wage work, though.
>> No. 422752 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 5:52 pm
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>>422745

>There was a study not too long ago by the UCL Institute of Education and University of Cambridge which found that many adults could not work out one-third of £3.15, scoring noticeably worser than adults in other European nations.


This is all a matter of practice though.

For example, my university degree is in economics. Before I went to uni, I never really bothered to do a lot of calculations in my head about the money I had. Granted, I was only 20, and younger. One thing about studying economics is that they give you an ABSOLUTE FUCKLOAD of maths problems to work out both as your coursework and in your exams. Economics at uni is by far not just a debating club. On the contrary, you will spend half of your four years simply crunching numbers with a pen and paper and a calculator. You are trained to work out numbers to the nth decimal blindfolded behind your back if necessary, especially in subjects like management accounting or finance.

My maths skills in school were really pretty average, I was never bad but also never one of the best, and as I said, before uni, I never really did a lot of number crunching. It's nothing short of a miracle that I passed all the higher maths, but again, it was practice. There are a few recurring themes throughout your economics exams, about a set of one dozen different higher maths techniques from n-dimensional equation systems to matrices and a few other things, but once you've got the hang of them, the maths side of that degree is frankly a piece of piss.

So my point is, even if your mathematical talent is less than average, with enough practice, you can develop an in-depth grasp on simple arithmetic that is useful for things like budgeting and cost effectiveness in your personal life.

I think what's a problem is that people tend to be a bit too cavalier about the fact that they are shit at maths. Having been shit at maths in school is almost seen as a badge of honour, whereas people will think you are an uptight boffin when you tell them "Oh you know, I'm actually pretty good at maths these days".

Poor maths skills aren't droll, they are the absence of an essential life skill. It's the whole give-a-man-a-fish thing. If you teach people how to properly monitor their monthly costs and how to get the most out of the things you buy, then you will have far fewer people in perennial debt as they are today, including the poor and lower classes.
>> No. 422753 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 5:58 pm
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>>422752

>Poor maths skills aren't droll, they are the absence of an essential life skill.

That is irrelevant as long as you can still use a calculator, though. I'm shit at maths (not proud of it, I try my best to improve) but still manage to work with numbers daily as I know how to use excel and google things.

I'd say that budgeting has precious little to do with maths skills, even if you had no calculator I'm sure most people are still capable of rounding up to the nearest pound when working out their grocery budget.
>> No. 422754 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 6:18 pm
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>>422742
m8, the only time a dark existential void is getting filled with fags and booze is when your mum's shoplifting at duty free. And she's still back at it 6 months later.

It clearly doesn't work and has long been observed as a cancer on the working class. Chloe at Primark would do well to listen to the scorn and instead read up on Seneca or work on escaping her situation.

>>422745
I've surprised myself by being able to work it all out. Even planned out the retirement at the start of the year with a solid 2-3 decades shitposting and blazing it all day before I die.

Of course knowing my luck the bastards will crack immortality in the next 100 years and I'll have to work forever under the cruel whip of the Moon-People.
>> No. 422756 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 6:45 pm
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>>422753

>That is irrelevant as long as you can still use a calculator, though.

It's not just the ability to punch numbers into a calculator. Any ten year old can do that. It's an overall grasp on arithmetic and being able to judge how far the money you make every month will go.
>> No. 422757 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 6:53 pm
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>>422752
>I think what's a problem is that people tend to be a bit too cavalier about the fact that they are shit at maths. Having been shit at maths in school is almost seen as a badge of honour

There's no almost about it. Some people boast of their inability to understand maths. Anti-intellectualism is encouraged in certain quarters.

A lot of research into financial planning has found that people want to do it but they haven't got a clue where to start, so they end up feeling too daunted by it. They need someone to guide them through it; education and engagement has a drastic increase in the uptake of it.
>> No. 422758 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 7:08 pm
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>>422757

>Some people boast of their inability to understand maths. Anti-intellectualism is encouraged in certain quarters.

And it's really just practice to a very large extent.

I read something recently where some psychologist argued that with the right proper training, anybody's brain can do just about anything. You may not have a natural knack for maths, and nobody expects you to get a maths degree. But you can be taught maths to an extent where you will at least have a decent level of mathematical skill.

Wouldn't go as far as blaming anti-intellectualism, but we would really benefit from a culture where being good at maths is valued. You wouldn't boast to anybody that you're shit at writing and orthography. Poor spelling is one of the most surefire ways to get turned down when applying for a job, for example. And we've even got TV ads trying to sell us spelling software because good spelling is so important.

If we're so anal about spelling, then there is no reason why we shouldn't also apply that high standard to maths. Because in a way, correct spelling is much more time consuming to learn than a bit of arithmetic.
>> No. 422759 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:01 pm
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I doubt any of you lads are watching Strictly, but Lauren Steadman would seriously get it. She looks like she'd be absolute filth. She gives me a right proper stonk on.
>> No. 422760 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:09 pm
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>>422759

Is she on the left or right there?
>> No. 422761 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:26 pm
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>>422745
>As a quick test, how many of you in work can actually answer most of these:-
Those questions are a bit moot if you're not high enough up Maslow to be able to worry about things like pensions.
>> No. 422762 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:27 pm
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>>422741
>Why not start there and stop smoking and drinking.
>Well and they also have the 40'' TV that they're paying off. And a few other frivolous purchases.

Aaaaaand we're back to "poor people shouldn't have nice things" again.
>> No. 422763 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:36 pm
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>>422761
The point was that people all along the income scale are generally piss poor at financial planning, not just paupers.
>> No. 422764 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:38 pm
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>>422760
They both look like they'd do you up the bum, to be fair.
>> No. 422765 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:45 pm
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>>422759
This might be the most tedious kind of post on .gs. It's bordering on meme forcing.
>> No. 422766 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:45 pm
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>>422762

> "poor people shouldn't have nice things"

I grew up as poor as arseholes and I still don't get what's wrong with that statement. Next you'll be telling me that poor people should be living in Mayfair and having caviar and cocaine for breakfast.

If you can't afford something then you can't afford it, simple as.
>> No. 422767 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:47 pm
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>>422762

>Aaaaaand we're back to "poor people shouldn't have nice things" again.

I guess that depends on your idea of "nice things".

If they quit smoking, they can afford to pay off the finest 40'' TV money can buy. More than that, if you smoke a pack a day, as many smokers do in adult age, you can pay for it cash after one or two months of not smoking.

Is that not a nice thing?

And if paupers have trouble with the concept of saving money for just two short months so they can buy a 40'' TV with their own money the third month, no payment plan, theirs to keep, then the problem isn't whether they should be allowed to smoke or not.
>> No. 422768 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:48 pm
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>>422765
You're right. Going around in circles about poor people is far more interesting.
>> No. 422769 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 8:57 pm
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Given that the vast majority of smokers are poor people, tobacco tax is pretty clearly a tax on the poor. Get rid of that and they'd be able to buy their TV right away.
>> No. 422770 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 9:01 pm
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>>422769

This.

Add a houmous tax and we're on even footing.
>> No. 422771 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 9:22 pm
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>>422769

By that logic, fuel tax is a tax that punishes the wealthy. After all, they're the ones barreling down the M1 in their Porsche Cayennes at 90 mph and 10 mpg. While you in your old Golf TDI get over four times that. You don't know what it's like to pay hundreds of quid of fuel tax a month that way! What, rich people shouldn't have nice things?

Stop taxing petrol. Let the richers have their fun.
>> No. 422772 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 9:33 pm
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>>422771

>they're the ones barreling down the M1 in their Porsche Cayennes at 90 mph and 10 mpg. While you in your old Golf TDI get over four times that

Isn't that the point? You're not really convincing me this is a bad thing.

Eat the rich.
>> No. 422773 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 9:50 pm
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>>422772

well it's the same kind of point as otherlad (or you?) arguing we need to abolish the tobacco tax. Essentially because that tax punishes certain people for doing things that other people don't want them doing.

Maybe all these taxes should much more honestly be named "I don't like you doing that tax".
>> No. 422774 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 9:52 pm
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>>422771
It's for similar reasons that re-nationalising the railways just helps bankers like me travel in from Guildford to the City every day; poor people don't commute an hour on the train.
>> No. 422775 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 10:09 pm
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>>422773

You're missing the point, then. We should tax rich people things because they can afford it, and not tax poor people things because they can't.

Tax free Stella and Benson, but huge hikes in Champagne and cigars. The class divide is still there, but the pooros have a leg up.
>> No. 422776 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 10:31 pm
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>>422775
But they'll just spend it on new TVs!
>> No. 422777 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 10:34 pm
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>>422775

>and not tax poor people things because they can't.


They seem to be able to afford fags just fine.
>> No. 422778 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 10:36 pm
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>>422775
>not tax poor people things because they can't.

Aren't most paupers drains on the system rather than net contributors?
>> No. 422779 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 10:51 pm
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>>422778

>Aren't most paupers drains on the system rather than net contributors?

Reminds me of the first time as a weelad when I heard my parents talk about the poll tax. I honestly thought they were talking about a POOR tax. "Poll" and "poor" sounding really near enough the same in a Norf London accent, you see.

So anyway, the lil'un me honestly thought the government was going to tax poor people for being poor.

Which would be an interesting concept.

You will probably argue that that is already being done with taxes on tobacco and alcohol. But that then means they are not strictly taxing poverty. Because even as a poor person you have a choice if you decide to smoke and drink. And a chain smoking rich person is just as much subject to that tax as a pauper.
>> No. 422780 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 11:28 pm
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>>422779
>a chain smoking rich person is just as much subject to that tax as a pauper

Yes. And I am no more forbidden from starving to death under a bridge than my boss' boss' boss would be in an equal situation either. We have achieved so much.
>> No. 422781 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 11:34 pm
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>>422780

When exactly did .gs become a playground for Marxist class struggle?
>> No. 422782 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 11:53 pm
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>>422781

It's always been that way, you bourgeois dog

I think a solid half of our userbase are currently in the 40% or above tax brackets, maybe we just feel guilty alright
>> No. 422783 Anonymous
8th December 2018
Saturday 11:56 pm
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>>422782

I was just being daft.

Still not sold on the idea though that poor people should be allowed to smoke because that's all they've got in life. and have a bigger telly than I've got at the moment
>> No. 422784 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 12:28 am
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>>422782
And the other half are on bennies.
>> No. 422785 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 1:26 am
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>>422784
Yeah, but were middle class about it. My bennies go on kitchen knives , kale and craft beer, because I'm disabled enough that I don't need to buy my own benzos.
>> No. 422786 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 1:47 am
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>>422785

>because I'm disabled enough that I don't need to buy my own benzos.

THE DREAM
>> No. 422787 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 2:00 am
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I really fancy some of them iced mince pies, are they any good?
>> No. 422788 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 9:34 am
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>>422779
>So anyway, the lil'un me honestly thought the government was going to tax poor people for being poor.

Banks already do this. I will leave you to make your own mind up about the connections and history between the banking industry and the government in this country.
>> No. 422789 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 10:04 am
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>>422788
What are those cheeky banksters up to now? Up to their old tricks again?
>> No. 422790 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 10:08 am
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>>422774
I get the feeling nationalised railways contribute to a sense of national cohesiveness. I've always wondered, if we'd privatised British Rail the way BR management wanted - as BR Plc, one big train company, would the demand for renationalisation be so high? I wouldn't underplay the value of having the whole country whining about fucking British Rail, rather than the system we've got now where Northerners complain about Northern Rail and Southerners complain about Southern Rail, but we can never just come together and unite around the fact that public or private we're all British and we're all terrible at running trains.

I'm not sure whether to file this under running a silly idea out too far to see where it goes, or under having skimread too much of The Rise and Fall of the British Nation
>> No. 422791 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 11:15 am
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>>422787
I've always felt the icing ruins the flavour and that at any rate, Christmas sweets should use powdered sugar for topping to symbolise snow. It's a bit like thick icing on a Stollen, not the same and not what Jesus would have wanted.

Although in keeping with the threads hijacking I will also point out that it is something one would expect to see in ASDA.

>>422789
They keep being outright reckless in lending to the poor. Especially at this time of year with all the George Baileys and three spirits going around.

>>422790
I rather think you would see arguments from both sides of how to fix British Rail. One big monopoly would certainly be subject to demands for it's breakup to bring competition into the calculation.

The fact that so many problems can be attributed to greedy franchise holders also provides a nifty common enemy to suppress English nationalism. People might start asking why they're subsidising the Taffy express if it was one big operation with high ticket prices for example.
>> No. 422792 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 1:02 pm
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I ruddy hate those adverts they have this time of year where they take a popular song, strip it back and have a woman singing it slowly.

Also, iced mince pies are just plain wrong.
>> No. 422793 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 1:30 pm
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>>422792
like this?
>> No. 422794 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 1:43 pm
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>>422791

>One big monopoly would certainly be subject to demands for it's breakup to bring competition into the calculation.

Competition tends to be good because it usually means prices fall and goods are produced more efficiently and more innovatively. And companies in competitive industries are usually more flexible and adaptable, because that is the only way they will survive. On the other hand, when competition gets too fierce, it can have a negative impact both on companies' earnings and how much they pay their employees, for example. And then there's the other end of the spectrum called cartelisation, where competitors avoid so-called runious competition and prices stay high and the companies themselves tend to lose their flexibility. There is also no great incentive for innovation. That's why cartelisation is usually illegal and cartels can be fined by national governments and the EU.

And then you can argue that some services are just so crucial to public wellbeing and the functioning of public life and infrastructure that they should be largely exempt from market forces, and therefore run by the government. Where the service itself that they provide is more important than whether or not it is being provided with utmost efficiency.

The NHS and the police are examples, and in my opinion also prisons. When it comes to the railway system, maybe not so much. At least in Britain, it's not THE backbone of public life, as many people have alternatives like cars, buses or flights. I think a healthy dose of private-sector competition is in everybody's interest. and the overall quality of service under nationalisation was not really as good as people like to remember.
>> No. 422795 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 1:44 pm
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>>422793
More like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9AFMVMl9qE
>> No. 422796 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 1:50 pm
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>>422793

Pete Bums must be spinning in his grave.
>> No. 422797 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 2:50 pm
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>>422796
Surely Kesha has already seen to that.
>> No. 422798 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 2:57 pm
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>>422794
I'm not quite sure if there's anything to debate here. I was merely stating that we would see arguments for the national champion to be knee-capped to provide space for private bids. My own wider view on these things is that while certain systems direct towards outcomes a whole lot depends on the underlying culture that changes how private and public utilities operate which is hard to nurture/break.

Although, upon further reflection you don't hear many arguments for breaking up Network Rail despite the awkward relationship between itself and franchisers that feeds into the problem. Perhaps we need a mirror-universe AnCap Corbyn to argue that.
>> No. 422800 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 4:35 pm
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Interesting video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i86TwJxTx_g

Somewhat poor quality even for a VHS rip, but oh well.
>> No. 422801 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 5:57 pm
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>>422798
If you want a good laugh, read the story of RailTrack before it was nationalised as network rail.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/apr/01/transport.politics
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/apr/01/transport.politics1
Selected Quotation / Sparknotes for the lazy bas--people who won't actually read it:
In the summer, after Railtrack confessed that the £600m worth of Italian tilting trains he had ordered would not, as promised, be able to reach 140mph on the new WCML, Richard Branson cheerily told an interviewer: "Do you know why we're changing the name of Virgin Trains? Cos they're fucked."
>> No. 422802 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 7:47 pm
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I think we need to invite Andrew around so we can have a word with him about ironing.
>> No. 422803 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 8:16 pm
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>>422802
Also, one of his dogs is fat, he should feed it less.
>> No. 422804 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 8:52 pm
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>>422798

Despite the weird, botched way in which we privatised the railways, I think it's entirely reasonable to call the effort a major success.
>> No. 422805 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 10:45 pm
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>>422804
By that metric perhaps; that shouldn't be the only one.
>> No. 422806 Anonymous
9th December 2018
Sunday 10:47 pm
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>>422804

More passengers = better service? Come off it, lad.

Clearly you've never had to pay fifty quid to stand in the aisles on the Edinburgh - Kings Cross during peak hours.
>> No. 422807 Anonymous
10th December 2018
Monday 4:17 am
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>>422804
I always like to pedantically note that the uptick in that graph begins 15 minutes before privatisation.
We cheated the figures a bit by renationalising network rail and then giving railways a level of investment they'd not seen in decades. It's all well and good having passenger numbers spike without major cuts to the train operating companies profits, so long as you've got the government picking up the bill. You can say "oh, the subsidy per passenger mile is dropping off now", but that's the magic of investing in something: that's how it works. The question is "why didn't we do it earlier?" and the answer is, so far as I can tell, because trains hadn't started falling off the tracks and killing people with sufficiently alarming regularity.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0155998214000416
an interesting article.
>> No. 422808 Anonymous
10th December 2018
Monday 4:59 am
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>>422807
Of course, one of the things that was touted, as with previous efforts, was that Joe public could be a part-owner of the company. Or pour their money into something that will leave them bailed out for half what they paid for it, or lose their (pre-tax) savings deductions.

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