>Use gender-neutral language when you’re unsure. This means saying “pregnant people” instead of “pregnant woman” or referring to specific anatomic terms (i.e., “uterus” or “chest”) instead of “breast” or “female reproductive system.”
>>70258 >https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=truscum By that definition anyone who doesn't thoroughly ascribe to gender roles is trans? It seems QED that the only people who should transition are those suffering gender dysphoria. If someone without gender dysphoria wants to transition, then they're just ruining it for the rest of them by opening the gates for the neopronoun lot.
Is that actually a thing? If you don't have gender dysphoria then you're not trans, you're just someone who doesn't define their identity through their gender. Which is fine, that's most people nowadays.
>Also, this thread will not go anywhere good. I guarantee it.
Did the trans thread in /news/ go anywhere good? Or bad, for that matter?
A lot of (overwhelmingly female) Tumblr users want to be part of an oppressed minority, but don't actually want to experience any oppression. Identifying as non-binary is the easiest option. You get to be annoyed if people use the wrong pronouns but don't actually have to change anything about yourself.
>>70268 No, of course not, that kind of discussion is wasted on the normies you meet in real life, and should be reserved only for the safe spaces of Twitter and Discord.
So instead of going round in circles in the big gender bender containment thread on /news/ we're going to go round in circles in new threads instead? Great.
>>70263 >It seems QED that the only people who should transition are those suffering gender dysphoria.
For argument's sake: Why? What if you don't have dysphoria, you'd be perfectly happy living as a man, but you'd be even happier living as a woman?
The main counter would seem to be "ah, but what if you're wrong and you really regret it?", but that doesn't really tackle the issue on principle. Someone might really regret changing their name by deed poll in Scotland (where there's a limit to how often you can do it), but we don't demand reams of paperwork showing their current name poses a severe risk to their mental health. Someone might really regret getting any cosmetic surgery, yet we still let a most of it go ahead despite the risk.
>>70268 I have a colleague who uses those neo-pronouns like ze/zim/zir (but not those actual ones) and I struggle to remember them so just use the gender neutral they/them.
The main counter would be that they're not women, a bloke in a dress though is just a crossdresser. We accept trans because there something about being a woman in a man's body and they'll kill themselves if we get the pronouns wrong.
We don't allow people to remove limbs either. Unless they fall asleep with their hands in dry-ice.
>SOMEONE MIGHT REALLY REGRET GETTING ANY COSMETIC SURGERY, YET WE STILL LET A MOST OF IT GO AHEAD DESPITE THE RISK.
I'd hazard that most cosmetic surgery is performed for a justified reason - we fix cleft lips and cancer scars because you'd be a right 'orrible bastard not to. It's not all women putting botox in their face because they can't cope with aging.
The big issue about trans rights in this country is basically all about getting it on the NHS, because next to nobody has private healthcare, and even if they did it wouldn't cover it; the only people who are really able to proceed with their transition at any reasonable pace are those who can just afford to outright pay for it privately.
The way they handle it is pretty much consistent with other "cosmetic" surgeries- The NHS doesn't just go handing out boob jobs and facelifts to anyone who walks into their gp and asks for one, contrary to what tabloid headlines of yesteryear would have you believe. In that regard I would argue that trans people are not discriminated against by this country's healthcare system.
it's weird how that conflicts with the yank trannoid activist types though, where you're lucky if your family doesn't get the bill for it when you get hit by a bus and killed. american healthcare is so radically different in comparison, that it's weird when you see them re-use similar talking points to each other without accounting for the fundamental difference in context.
the irony of course is that being trans is generally a wealthy, metropolitan thing, they're all software engineers in portland and shit aren't they. there seems to be a great deal of disingenuity in the conversation.
wELL. At least, all the visible ones are programmers and shit.
I can't actually find any information on how trans people are represented throughout the socio-economic classes or racial demographics. it's well known that they have worse outcomes than their peers due to a number of discriminatory factors, but I can't find any data on how the proportion of trans people are actually distributed throughout the segments.
based on that it's just as valid for me to assume it's a pmc lib thing as it is to assume the number of trannos is evenly distributed throughout the classes. I'd also probably make the assumption there are very few trans people upper reaches of society.
>the only people who are really able to proceed with their transition at any reasonable pace are those who can just afford to outright pay for it privately.
Which is why a lot of them then end up in sex work and adult entertainment, in Britain but also much more in poorer countries with a weaker social safety net, because it is often the only way for them to raise a lot of money in a reasonable amount of time to pay for all the surgery and other cosmetic treatments. Other more mainline high-paying jobs are usually out of reach for somebody in the middle of gender transition. Which then in turn shapes our views of the subject matter, and you have people thinking that it's just a sexual fetish or that gender reassignment is somehow a pervy thing to do.
>american healthcare is so radically different in comparison, that it's weird when you see them re-use similar talking points to each other without accounting for the fundamental difference in context.
Radically different meaning it's totally fucked. I'm not sure it's even possible in the UK to suffer medical bankruptcy, but it's a common occurrence stateside, where an expensive life-saving surgery can leave you with $70K+ of medical bills to pay off, either because your health insurance refused to cover it or you don't have health insurance to begin with.
>wELL. At least, all the visible ones are programmers and shit.
I'm not sure where I read it, but I seem to remember that there is actually a difficult to explain affinity towards technology among a significant percentage of MTF trans persons. You would think that somebody who feels like a woman inside would be more into all the girly things, and I guess a lot of them are, but there is that correlation.
>I'm not sure where I read it, but I seem to remember that there is actually a difficult to explain affinity towards technology among a significant percentage of MTF trans persons.
There is a strong association between gender dysphoria and autism spectrum disorder.
>>70276 >>70279 I think my angle was unclear. I'm not making a point about trans-rights or the NHS or necessary cosmetic surgery. What I'm saying is on more transhumanist lines: If a woman with small breasts wants to pay to be a woman with large breasts, we're all for it. If a man who isn't a woman (not 'a woman in a man's body', just a bloke. let's say i want to do it just to demonstrate.) wants to be a woman, we go 'no, because you're not.', even though the exact same hormones and surgery could be applied as are for someone who is a woman in a man's body.
The analogy might be made to limb removal, although that's unambiguously disabling. Even then, the technology is there and at least one bloke actually wanted it.
There'll probably be more and more like that as cybernetic arms get better.
My own view is something like: Once the technology is there, people who want it are going to go for it even if they don't meet the medical circumstances it's intended for. In the way that you get Adderall for ADHD (in America anyway), but plenty of people without the condition will buy it to make uni or programming easier, you might well see a number of men who don't feel that they're a woman on the inside but do think that they'd prefer their body had tits. Whether they pay for that themselves over the counter or try to get the NHS to cover it seems secondary to the underlying idea of people freely modifying their bodies without a medical justification.
No longer having a knob arguably also disables you from doing certain things.
>Whether they pay for that themselves over the counter or try to get the NHS to cover it seems secondary to the underlying idea of people freely modifying their bodies without a medical justification.
Except there are standards of care in many countries that forbid surgeons from just lopping off genitalia at the whim of a patient with enough cash to pay for it out of pocket. You'll probably always find some plastic surgeon in some backwater third world country who doesn't ask questions, but even in countries like Thailand which has been the sex change capital of the world for many years, there are now laws that govern or even ban certain procedures. They actually have a law against cosmetic castration, which means that you can't just go to a surgeon anymore, put money on the table and ask to have your balls removed. You need to have confirmation from a licenced therapist that you are gender dysphoric. They did that because loads of ladyboys saw it as a quick fix, but many had never had proper counselling to prepare them for that step, and many ended up regretting it.
You can take Adderall or other mind enhancing drugs for some time but there will be no lasting effects once you get off them again. Your natural brain chemistry will at some point very soon bounce back from it. Gender transition is very different in that respect because not only are surgical procedures difficult to undo, but hormone treatment already poses the risk that the patient will be infertile if they decide to abandon their transition and go back to living as their birth gender. Especially nowadays when teenagers as young as 14 get to go on full-on hormone treatment without even having gone through their birth gender's puberty.
This is why they make you spend two years as a man in a dress before they'll cut anything off. Surely you both remember that this is part of the procedure.
>>70293 >IF A WOMAN WITH SMALL BREASTS WANTS TO PAY TO BE A WOMAN WITH LARGE BREASTS, WE'RE ALL FOR IT
How dare you.
But if a woman has deformed tits then that's fine in my book. I used to date a woman with tits like the woman in the guilty-would thread and as you can imagine it definitely impacted her life, not really so much on the outside because she had special cups and stuff (and I was just happy to be putting my willy somewhere) but she was insecure to the point of paranoia about anyone seeing her naked. I think that's fine grounds, like if you had a micropenis then it's not unreasonable to get a penis enlargement.
>>70272 >BUT YOU'D BE EVEN HAPPIER LIVING AS A WOMAN?
I'd be happier living as a 6'2 man with a straighter nose and a slightly better chin, but I'm not, and the only way I can get that is by faking it through surgery. I wouldn't be that thing though, I'd still be me underneath, even if my physical form felt like something I should be or wanted to be.
It would surely be better for me to try and become happy with what I am, if I don't have gender dysphoria, rather than cosplaying as someone I want to be when I'm obviously not.
But then I do wonder about in the future, when we presumably have mastery of the atom and can simply adjust our form on the fly. I think we're caught in an unfortunate inbetween where it's kind of possible to change yourself physically but you're still going
to be the person you were because we can't change that yet.
And it's so optical - many people seem to be saying "I feel like I identify more with things that are culturally masc/fem so I should be masc/fem and if I'm referred to as the opposite it's offensive" despite these things being completely arbitrary. Like denying that you have breasts because you associate breasts with femininity, but this being counterproductive in terms of normalising things like breast cancer in men.
>I'd be happier living as a 6'2 man with a straighter nose and a slightly better chin, but I'm not, and the only way I can get that is by faking it through surgery.
Yes but you are presumably not a debilitatingly ugly lad at the moment, just somebody who thinks nature could have been more generous with him in terms of physical attributes.
I'm not saying that plastic/cosmetic surgery won't improve your self image, but unless you really have a remarkably wonky nose - or tit - that causes you considerable psychological suffering, I think a lot of people who get plastic surgery do so not because they objectively need it, but because they have never learned to accept themselves for who they are. Plastic surgery is a way for some of them to become somebody else. Because somewhere deep down, they have low self esteem or even had an unhappy childhood where nobody ever gave them a sense of self worth.
On the other hand, I'm sure you've noticed that people with the biggest self confidence who get shags left right and centre aren't always the ones who look picture perfect. Usually, they are somebody who likes and enjoys who they are and doesn't worry too much about their nose or breasts, and they then project that. Self confidence, in the right dosage, is a powerful trait that attracts both friends and sexual partners.
You can then still say, yes, but I'm really doing plastic surgery just for myself. To feel better about myself when I look in the mirror. And that's probably not unreasonable, but again, unless you objectively look shit, the more profound and long-term fix is quite often to accept yourself the way you are.
This is the new evangelist christian korean youtuber general thread, isn't it?
My mate who cut his dick off posted this on Facebook today. I don't know what the EHRC actually said, and this picture hasn't told me, but surely it's a tad contentious to fall out with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission of all places.
Also, maybe posting here will attract the similar debate out of the midweek thread.
>>70357 EHRC has been going a bit Rowling over the past year or so. They've been hitting the anti-Stonewall bandwagon hard since that charming Benson Phillips bloke left and got replaced with someone who not only hates trains but, worse, is an actual bint.
