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|>>|| No. 8117
Several lads here seem to have a grasp of investments and so on. Do any of you have a regular income outside "earner income"? What kind of category does it fall into, and how did you come into it?
I had a nice image, but brian isn't playing ball today. It's a list of different (very broad) types of income:
1 Earner income : work a job
2 Profit income : buy and sell
3 Interest income: lending money
4 Dividend income: owning stock
5 Rental income: renting out property
6 Capital gains : assets increase in value
7 Royalties: others use your work
|>>|| No. 8594
I'm not looking to hold, I'm just experimenting. My understanding is that generally (but not always, as >>8591 points out) the price will rise immediately following an IPO, which seems like a good opportunity to make a quick buck. And if I don't, I'm not exactly betting my house on it, they are offering values of £250 at the lowest. Yes the restaurants will open up, so the plan is to get out before they can on a large scale.
|>>|| No. 8595
So: Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos have a lot of wealth. They think the best use of it is to spend it on spaceships. This is "noble" or something. What's the best investment to get some of that drip down?
|>>|| No. 8597
Obviously you invest in space companies. The UK has a leading small-satellite and sensor/comms industry if you want local and something benefitting from reduced launch costs. I suspect odds are good that you'll see undervalued space companies in general considering the pace of the global industry.
If you don't fancy the risk then you still have huge companies like Airbus.
|>>|| No. 8599
Why do we spend billions on making satellites if we could just send iPhones up there?
|>>|| No. 8601
Serious answer: because cosmic radiation would destroy the electronics. To survive for any length of time outside the atmosphere, satellites need specialised integrated circuits that can withstand high-energy radiation. Some small experimental low earth orbit satellites have used smartphones for their control electronics, but they were only designed to have a working lifespan of a couple of weeks.
Also consumer-grade navigation chips are required by law to shut down if they exceed a velocity of 600m/s or an altitude of 16000m to prevent them from being used in ballistic missiles.
|>>|| No. 8602
> ballistic missiles.
Surely a crude ballistic missile does't need much in the way of electronics.
|>>|| No. 8603
depends if you want it to land somewhere in particular. Ballistic doesn't rule out guidance.
|>>|| No. 8604
Note, though, that you can homebrew GPS solutions out of available silicon and open source software (or do it from scratch if you're exceptionally keen). It'll not be as small or low power as a commercial solution, but if you'rebuilding ICBMs you can probably afford an extra 20 grams to avoid the crippled features.
|>>|| No. 8605
Fuck me even the circuitry is vulnerable. I don't see how we're ever going to get to the point of colonising the galaxy at this rate.
|>>|| No. 8606
Honestly if Steve ISIS can knock up a functional ICBM in his shed with fertiliser, coke bottles and a TomTom I'd say he deserves to nuke us.
|>>|| No. 8607
There are a whole bunch of other restrictions that make life difficult for Kim Jong Un and his ilk. High-G accelerometers, anything rad-hardened, anything with an extreme temperature rating and a whole bunch of other components are subject to export controls. Something as seemingly mundane as a sheet of nickel alloy can be subject to export controls because of the potential for military use. The US and EU satellite industries are quite strongly segregated because of the complexity and risk involved in exports; Brexit has very much left Britain in no-man's land.
Radiation shielding is one of the hard problems of manned space flight. We're pretty good at protecting electronics, but protecting people is very much an unsolved problem.
|>>|| No. 8611
I got a chuckle at the specialist from the Royal Aeronautical Society looking at the LE Size and Health survey and concluding things haven't changed over the past couple years. Considering the surveys are done on 2-year stints with the last being published in 2018 something might be amiss here.
>The US and EU satellite industries are quite strongly segregated because of the complexity and risk involved in exports; Brexit has very much left Britain in no-man's land.
This is a backwards way of looking at it because the growth markets aren't in Europe or North America and export controls are set at MS level in the EU. I'm sure Japan will be intrigued to hear all this at any rate.
What you mean going by your focus is that MTCR members have agreed to a level of export control. NATO is the most obvious institution that circumvents controls between members but so does ESA. Underlining this is that Deliveroo doesn't own satellites but instead uses services and the same runs up into universities buying cube sats manufactured in the UK and launched elsewhere (although even elsewhere is starting to look like the Scottish highlands).
|>>|| No. 8612
We do pretty well on building the satellites, many of them are built in Guildford, but we'll never be a viable launch site.
|>>|| No. 8613
>I'm sure Japan will be intrigued to hear all this at any rate.
Japan can make semiconductors and precision machine tools. They're self-reliant and inward-looking to a fault. Britain doesn't have anywhere near the high-tech manufacturing capacity to stand alone in the way that Japan does. We need to do a huge amount of trade with the EU to keep the wheels turning and Brexit has dumped a lot of paperwork on our desks that can inadvertently turn us into international arms smugglers if we cock it up.
>What you mean going by your focus is that MTCR members have agreed to a level of export control.
Nope. MTCR is quite narrow and rarely presents practical problems, but Wassenaar and ITAR/EAR are a constant pain in the arse. Military items are regulated at MS level, but dual-use items are covered at an EU level by 428/2009.
When we were in the EU, we could trade dual-use items freely within the bloc; now that we're outside, every movement across the channel counts as an export or re-export. A lot of businesses only tangentially related to aerospace or defence have had to apply for OGELs for the first time and we're still not sure what the long-term position is with respect to GEAs.
The British aerospace industry is by no means doomed, but we became much less competitive and much less attractive to investors on the first of January.
|>>|| No. 8614
>Trade union calls for Deliveroo UK riders strike to highlight IPO risks
>A trade union called for Deliveroo’s UK riders to strike when the meal delivery service floats on the stock market next month, saying on Sunday the action would highlight dissatisfaction with the company’s business model and approach to workers’ rights. Deliveroo, whose turquoise-uniformed couriers delivering chicken kormas and American hot pizzas are a common sight in many British suburbs, is set for Britain’s biggest stock market debut in nearly a decade after setting a share price range that values it at up to $12 billion.
>But some investment firms have said they will not participate in the initial public offering (IPO). Insurer Aviva for instance highlighted a lack of rights for riders as an investment risk as the company might be forced to change its business model. Deliveroo said investor demand had continued to build since its roadshow began on Monday, and said the views of the union which announced the strike, the Independent Workers’ Union of Great Britain (IWGB), did not represent the vast majority of riders.
>The IWGB previously lost a legal challenge to Deliveroo in 2018. The case sought to secure rights such as the UK minimum wage for riders, but the court ruled riders were self-employed. “Investing in Deliveroo means associating yourself with the exploitative and unstable business model,” IWGB President Alex Marshall said in a statement, adding the strike was planned for April 7, to coincide with the IPO.
>The rights of people who work in the so-called “gig economy” have been an increasing focus in Britain. Ride-hailing app Uber gave its workers more entitlements earlier this month after losing a Supreme Court case. Deliveroo said job satisfaction levels among its 50,000 self-employed riders in Britain was at an all-time high, and that the flexibility they had was a big attraction. “Thousands apply to work with us every week, reflecting the strong demand for our on-demand model,” a company spokeswoman said.
I'm glad I remembered Benjamin Graham's advice against IPOs before sinking a grand into this.
>we'll never be a viable launch site
I don't know about this. It seems like we're doing really well in the engine market at the moment and we're in a much better position to our European rivals e.g. Germany exploring sea platform launch.
At the very least there should be a small-launch market given the ongoing Ariane debacle.
|>>|| No. 8615
The entire stock market is an elaborate scam designed to make me lose money.
|>>|| No. 8616
The shares I had in Aalberts Industries have gone up by almost 20% since I decided to sell them and double down on my losses in BlackBerry. I do not know what I am doing.
|>>|| No. 8618
I imagine a fair chunk of the downward pressure was related to the dual listing. Big investors like institutions don't want to take a significant stake in a company if the founders can basically overrule them with a much smaller stake.
|>>|| No. 8619
Many institutions have made a noise about Deliveroo's working practices, but behind that they've said they don't really have a sustainable long-term business model.
There's no real barrier to entry, Just Eat are investing heavily to boost their own restaurant offering rather than focusing on takeaways and started moving away from the gig economy to employed, they made a loss of £224million last year and that's on the back of exploitative business practices and it's not like they really have any assets either.
|>>|| No. 8620
>they made a loss of £224million last year
How? What overheads do they have? A website?
|>>|| No. 8621
It's pretty par for the course. Uber has literally never made a penny in its entire history. They can say that they can't afford to do business if they have to treat their workers properly, but they already can't afford to do business.
|>>|| No. 8622
That and the staff that build and maintain it which are being paid at a market premium of about 30-40%.
I'm getting tired of this "we can't afford to provide benefits to drivers" when they can easily afford to provide top-of-market salaries and equity to some project managers.
|>>|| No. 8623
They're burning money trying to expand the business, particularly overseas. I'm sure I read somewhere that they haven't been able to make any real headway outside of London.
|>>|| No. 8654
I made the mistake of listening to you lot. That's where I end up going wrong so I don't know why I did it. I saw someone elsewhere post "helium's going up" and it is so I think I'll try this tactic out for a bit. Next stock I'll take a punt on after seeing some random bollocks online is Aston Martin.
|>>|| No. 8656
I work with someone who invested loads in Aston Martin, and the share price has plummeted since he did that. So maybe, perhaps, this is the time to buy low? Put your life savings on it and tell me what happens.
|>>|| No. 8658
Papa Stroll is trying to revive their fortunes, which is part of the reason he's rebranded his F1 team.
Get in before it's overinflated.
|>>|| No. 8659
Why would you invest in Aston Martin just as their ugliest cars are being released? That Vantage looks like some shite out of Cyberpunk 2077.
|>>|| No. 8660
The market wants modern future looking cars.
People are paying for the cybertruck ffs.
|>>|| No. 8661
Well if that's true why is Aston Martin's stock price so far down the shitter otherlad's mate is about to paint his ceiling brain matter carmine, and Elon Musk is a fulltime wacky waving inflatable flailing arm man who's only job is to trick people into thinking fucking Tesla and it's "self-driving" murder-suicide-mobiles matter?
|>>|| No. 8662
Because Aston doesn't have an Elon.
There'll always be rich idiots, they'll be out in full force post-pandemic. Note that I'm not telling you to buy any shares, please god don't listen to me either way. I'll let you know when I float my own company and we can all make that financial mistake together.
|>>|| No. 8663
I know all this. I was answering your point about "future looking cars".
|>>|| No. 8670
Do you really trust those apps? If one day they decide they've had enough for whatever reason, they can just shut down and all "your" stocks will be gone.
|>>|| No. 8672
They're no less regulated than H&L or whichever other brick and mortar institution you have decided is less likely to fold.
As someone who had all their money in both the Northern Rock and Halifax around 2008, I find the idea that established banks or financial services are more reliable very amusing.
|>>|| No. 8673
I'm not going to lose my money if I get pick-pocketed or fall over funny.
|>>|| No. 8675
Well are share holdings or cash balances held in trading accounts covered by the government's £85k guarantee doobry?
|>>|| No. 8678
I doubt the shares are actually stored on the phone itself. I have Coinbase for cryptocurrency (don't use it; it's shit) and when I got a new phone, I just downloaded the app again and logged in and my ~£400 was still there. Honestly, I don't know what all these people who lose a wallet of 50,000 Bitcoins are angry about.
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