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|>>|| No. 8117
Several lads here seem to have a grasp of investments and so on. Do any of you have a regular income outside "earner income"? What kind of category does it fall into, and how did you come into it?
I had a nice image, but brian isn't playing ball today. It's a list of different (very broad) types of income:
1 Earner income : work a job
2 Profit income : buy and sell
3 Interest income: lending money
4 Dividend income: owning stock
5 Rental income: renting out property
6 Capital gains : assets increase in value
7 Royalties: others use your work
|>>|| No. 8118
There seems to be a growing trend for people wanting to do "side-hustles" or to live off passive income, but if r/UKPersonalFinance is anything to go by these tend to be people earning <£22k or with about a grand in cash they want to generate an income from. The reality is most of these people would be far better served putting that effort into maximising their salary.
My girlfriend does surveys for Prolific in her spare time which, off the top of my head, guarantee to pay at least £8 an hour. She also participates in research studies, with the best one being getting paid £100 to wear a Fitbit for 8 weeks and at the end of the study getting to keep both the Fitbit and the Motorola phone provided to track your progress on it.
|>>|| No. 8119
Fair observation, and I agree. There's probably some psychological comfort in the feeling that you're not fully reliant on one source of income, even if the reality is that you are reliant due to how little you earn overall.
Personally, I am putting all my effort into maximising income in my chosen field at the moment. I've landed a decent job for 2021 (about 32k per year after tax) and intend to live a slightly nicer life than I have been for the past two years, where I was scraping by on part time work while earning a postgraduate degree.
Once I do have some savings, though, at what point does it become worthwhile investing in something? I've heard some arbitrary figures thrown out, such as "don't invest until you've saved at least 25k". Is there any good reason for this kind of thinking?
I also admit I'm someone that is inclined to save as a form of "runway" to take further big career risks, e.g. moving country or putting my money toward a new qualification. These have almost universally paid off so far, but I have also considered where I might be if I put that money to other uses. I could make a more informed decision about these kind of tradeoffs if I knew where I could put my money and what sort of return (if any) I could expect.
|>>|| No. 8120
Use your pension allowance to the full. It's tax free, if you take a salary sacrifice you'll pay no NI on your contributions and your employer will often match, so it's unbelievably cost-effective. If you play your cards right, you can often double your money before you've earned a penny in interest.
For similar reasons, get a Lifetime ISA - the government will give you a 25% bonus as long as you use the money to buy your first home or keep it until retirement.
|>>|| No. 8121
>Once I do have some savings, though, at what point does it become worthwhile investing in something? I've heard some arbitrary figures thrown out, such as "don't invest until you've saved at least 25k". Is there any good reason for this kind of thinking?
It all depends on your goals. Saving for a house, having a retirement plan, other capital expenditure, that sort of thing.
When it comes to cash it's generally recommended to keep at least six months of expenditure relatively available for emergencies or if you lose your job.
|>>|| No. 8122
Buy buttcoins. They've gone from £22k to almost £26k in about 24 hours, so at this rate they should be worth well over £100k by the end of next week.
|>>|| No. 8123
>"don't invest until you've saved at least 25k"
No, that's a waste and you'll never save that on your earnings. I was on about the same as you last year and believe me that after spending on a girlfriend and the odd trip to see a mate or parents there's not much left. You're poor and should find a lass with money.
My rule is £800 budgeted in my bank account as contingency/twat-money for immediate access and then savings go into a fund and share account. I suggest putting a regular savings amount from your monthly budget in a low-cost index tracker\s and if it all goes south then we'll all have bigger things to worry about. Don't bother with 'owt fancy that has an objective to beat the system, shitcoins or trying to play the market.
Like otherlad suggest you'll want to think about your long-term savings goals and for a Lifetime ISA the cap is 4k a year which nets you a 1k bonus. You can use this towards a deposit on your first home but be warned that taking money out of this means the government also takes 1/4 so consider this money locked. I suggest that come march open a Lifetime ISA and dump what you have saved which won't impact your April 2021-22 amount. You're goal being to have 4k in a share and fund account you can dump right into your Lifetime ISA every April.
|>>|| No. 8124
Not him, but I have £25k liquidity, sitting in my current account doing nothing, and I'm on less than the average wage. But I'm not going to pretend I'm a self-made man, I'm from a reasonably well-off family which has given me the freedom to build those savings. Maybe the shit advice on waiting has come from people from a similar background that don't have the same self-awareness.
|>>|| No. 8125
>I have £25k liquidity, sitting in my current account doing nothing
That's insane and goes against even the most conservative advice I've seen. By 25k in savings I'm sure they mean putting that in an ordinary savings account on which there are many with the lower return end offering immediate access.
|>>|| No. 8126
Oh of course I'm not doing it deliberately, I'm just too lazy to look into where I should be investing it. I suppose I'll keep back five grand for six months of emergencies as advised earlier, and put the rest into... ISAs? Trackers? Eh I dunno, I'm already bored.
|>>|| No. 8128
Can you still take advantage of the Lifetime ISA if you have the HelpToBuy ISA already?
|>>|| No. 8130
As has been said, you need to work out what you're wanting to do with this money first. If you'll need the funds in five years keep it in cash, beyond that look to invest it.
|>>|| No. 8131
It's literally a few hours of your life and then you're best off leaving it alone and forgetting about it. Those few hours will earn thousands of pounds every year for the lifetime of the money sitting there which will rise as the money grows and you can boast to people that you're some money wizard.
If you can't manage that then there are people whose whole job is to manage money for a fee. Putting money into a fund/credit-union/whatever is pretty much that anyway. You can ring up your bank right now and say "hello I have 20k, tell me what to do with it" and they'll be calling you Sir and offering video calls.
You can only pay into one ISA a year but there's nothing stopping you having both existing beyond that. Just consider that taking money out of a Lifetime ISA for anything but a limited number of reasons carries a 25% penalty whereas HtB varies by provider.
>If you'll need the funds in five years keep it in cash
I think the term 'cash' might be misleading in this context. A savings account with a financial institution will be guaranteed under FSCS if the institution goes bust up to more than any of us need worrying about.
|>>|| No. 8132
>My rule is £800 budgeted in my bank account as contingency/twat-money for immediate access and then savings go into a fund and share account. I suggest putting a regular savings amount from your monthly budget in a low-cost index tracker\s and if it all goes south then we'll all have bigger things to worry about. Don't bother with 'owt fancy that has an objective to beat the system, shitcoins or trying to play the market.
Do you mean £800 just as a standby in your account, or £800 put away just to fuck with per month? The latter is too much for me at £32k per year.
"Beating the system" is honestly a huge draw as to why I made this thread, but I know I may have to adjust my expectations. I imagine aiming for FIRE requires living like a monk unless you're an extremely high earner, or you're planning to reach retirement only a few years earlier than average.
Regardless, I want the best possible outcome for myself. Even though at the moment my main goal is to get a good job, I wish it wasn't my only option aside from starving.
|>>|| No. 8133
One of my friends is doing FIRE and he's now earning £35k but was up until recently on £24k. He uses salary sacrifice to put most of his earnings into a pension and avoid repaying any student loan then puts about £600pm into an ISA that's invested largely in punts and ethical funds. I'd say he doesn't live like a miser, but he either walks or takes public transport everywhere and always lives in house shares.
|>>|| No. 8134
I don't live like a miser, but do like the FIRE methodology very much; I was lucky enough to get paid a LOT in my twenties and poured money into my pension. I think it's one of the best investments you can make (and about the only really good money thing I ever did). Will retire very early.
|>>|| No. 8135
Standby, I fucking wish I had £800 a month to piss up the wall. I eyeballed it awhile ago but got by on £200 which was frequently dipped into back when I was on 31k and we weren't under lockdown. I'd post a snapshot of my budget only purple is holding us ransom for takeaway Pizza.
>Regardless, I want the best possible outcome for myself. Even though at the moment my main goal is to get a good job, I wish it wasn't my only option aside from starving.
Money is magnetic, scrimp and save you will soon attract more is my general advice.
|>>|| No. 8136
I'm pretty much in the same boat - I've been wondering recently what the upper limit on salary sacrifice is - I could really do 100% and use the money from my other sources to live on, but I feel like they won't let me do that.
|>>|| No. 8138
I have 60 grand in an instant access saver as my "I don't care if I get fired because I have a year's living expenses" fund. Is there anything more intelligent I could be doing with that money assuming I might need to start drawing £5k/month out of it at some point?
|>>|| No. 8139
You must have a much nicer life than me if you need 60 grand as a year's living expenses.
|>>|| No. 8140
Must be one of those London lads paying 30k a year in rent and another twenty on quinoa.
|>>|| No. 8141
The upper limit on annual pension contribution is £40k per year.
|>>|| No. 8144
Depending on the interest rate of your savings account, Premium Bonds may be better - currently 1% equivalent interest. Though it is not quite instant access - it takes a few days I think to get your money, it is zero risk (and it is nice to get an email saying you have won).
|>>|| No. 8145
Premium Bonds! I was trying to remember the name last night and all I could come up with was "National Bonds" which didn't sound right at all. Googling for "like the national lottery but government bonds" was surprisingly unhelpful too.
My savings account is currently at a measly 0.25% interest. I'm sure if I went down to the local branch (if and when it's ever open, are physical banks essential in the age of cash machines and online banking? My mum's in her 70s and knows how to use a cash machine) I could get some kind of upgrade to another type of savings account but those bonus deals usually only last a year before they revert to the standard rate.
Cheers lad, you've not only fixed my tip-of-my-tongue issue from last night you've also given me a decent idea to investigate. Thanks lad!
|>>|| No. 8146
I've also noticed that NS&I do a nice little Junior ISA that I can throw up to £9000 a year in tax-free for the nipper to blow through when he either goes on a gap yaah or gets his first ASBO.
|>>|| No. 8147
If you've the spare dosh put £240 a month into a pension for him. Tax relief would gross it up to £300.
|>>|| No. 8149
It's a lottery where you get all your money back if you lose, guaranteed by the government. With interest rates at record lows, it's not the worst option for ultra-safe savings. You'll probably win nothing, but if the alternative is getting 0.01% APR...
|>>|| No. 8150
It's significantly better than the bedrock low rates you'll get anywhere else at the moment if you don't have huge amounts to invest.
My grandad had premium bonds, and going through his finances when he died they did perform better than his ISA over about 30 years, that always stuck out to me as we always made fun of him for getting excited when he got a letter saying he won two quid or whatever.
|>>|| No. 8152
I'm going to shock everyone here by admitting I don't have a pension myself (I'm incredibly pessimistic about the mid future and I'm absolutely certain almost no one under 40 is going to live long enough to receive the state pension if it even exists in 45 years time) so I'd never considered that you could start building a pension pot for a kid, an interesting idea.
That said, assuming the entire world doesn't end within the next 15 years or so he could at least cash out a Junior ISA at 18 and go scuba diving around Venice while Rome burns, or something.
|>>|| No. 8153
Get a fucking pension lad. The best time to start a pension is ten years ago, but the second best time is now. If you don't trust the state to provide for you in old age, then that's all the more reason to provide for yourself.
|>>|| No. 8154
A little exercise in compounding, ladm8. If an investment grows by 6.5% annually it would double every 11 years. Let's say you put £3,600 into a pension for a newborn sprog. Tax relief means your initial outlay is £2,880.
At age 11 it's doubled to £7,200.
At age 22 it's doubled to £14,400.
At age 33 it's doubled to £28,800.
At age 44 it's doubled to £57,600.
At age 55 it's doubled to £115,200.
At age 66 it's doubled to £230,400.
If you were in a position to do this for a few years then you would be setting your kid up for life with a comfortable retirement. There's a reason the wealthy tend to do this for their grandchildren, in part because it's also taking funds out of their estate for IHT.
|>>|| No. 8155
While I doubt I'll ever be wealthy enough to ever need to worry about inheritance tax, 6.5% APR is very, very nice indeed. Cheers lad, I'll look into it.
|>>|| No. 8156
You lot are talking about complicated stuff, but I would like your thoughts on something. I have about £18,000 just resting in a savings account. I have been meaning to stick it in a stocks & shares ISA to buy into a index tracker of sorts. Is that advisable?
Please no lifetime ISAs or anything that will penalise me for withdrawing my money early.
|>>|| No. 8157
Meanwhile, inflation is 5%. Oh look, that compounds too.
Management fees and the occasional Woodford 'nah, no money for you' also make me an unenthusiastic investor. I do have a pension (company matches, so good), but my pension statements over the years really don't show the magic of compounding leading to a rosy future. Those pounds I spent as a fresh graduate 30 years ago, have led to a pot I can earn in a few days. I could really have done with that money back then.
Small scale investing just feels like a waste of time, compared to using that time to earn more or do interesting things (like buying slightly nicer houses and riding that insane train, has worked for me at a level I've never even seen suggested for other investments).
_Saving_, though, makes sense, since at some point I'd like to stop work or ease off, but I'm just not seeing my saving pot actually growing much. Can it really and should I put the effort in?
Wish I'd mined bitcoin back in the day and kept it, but who doesn't...
|>>|| No. 8158
If we're talking proper actual returns over a 60 year timeframe then inflation between 1959 and 2019 averaged out at 5.4% annually.
I don't think a global stock market index has been running that long. The MSCI World Index is probably the furthest you can go back and between January 1975 and January 2021 it has returned 21415.40%, so that's a compound return of 12.39% p.a. if I've done my sums right.
>the occasional Woodford
If you're unhappy with active management then use an index tracker. Woodford is so noteworthy because what happened is so rare; it's certainly not an 'occasional' event.
|>>|| No. 8159
It depends on your appetite for risk. Market performance far outstrips the interest on savings accounts but it goes up and down so if there's a crisis and you need to withdraw in a 5 year timeframe then you can lose money (common wisdom is that you will have made money by year 5). To address this risk people usually maintain a portfolio that includes bonds and what-not in fractions that vary by age - bonds are safer but the return reflects that so are better for old people's pension savings.
There's lots of stuff you can read online about this. As before think about what you're doing.
With that out the way; I'll say that I remain confident and even though I'm planning to buy a house this year I condensed everything in December into three low-cost trackers covering Japan, US and UK which I consider safe as a chav in a box. That's cocky by common wisdom but I'm confident for reasons and if 1 and/or all shit the bed then I'll just spend a few more years putting money in before I buy a place which will end up considerably better than what I can afford now. Also I'm a lazy fucker.
Bonds are still a joke of an investment in terms of returns. Hence Premium Bond lads gambling on a 1% return.
Why bother? You're not going to exceed £12.3k in profits to be eligible for capital gains tax. If you do then, fuck me, I'll pay your CGT if you tell me what it is you're doing.
You're not losing anything by opening a fund and share account as an ISA, maybe compare platform fees but I doubt it'll change. What you will do though is lose the chance to pay into another ISA that year - should that ever be something you want to do.
|>>|| No. 8160
> Why bother? You're not going to exceed £12.3k in profits to be eligible for capital gains tax. If you do then, fuck me, I'll pay your CGT if you tell me what it is you're doing.
I thought interest from bank accounts was treated as income for the purposes of income tax. Have I missed something or are you suggesting setting up a limited company with a business account so that interest counts towards capital gains and not personal income?
|>>|| No. 8161
Thanks mate. I will read up some more on it.
>three low-cost trackers covering Japan, US and UK
Could you share what trackers that might be and what platform you would recommend? I have been eyeing HL for a bit now.
|>>|| No. 8162
HL is great.
I have a couple of Legal & General Funds which are doing great, the one HSBC tracker I have is doing shit.
|>>|| No. 8163
This is a HL website!
That said you pay more in platform fees on HL which add up (my tips will cost you £7~ a month on your amount) so if you just want to plop some money down then Vanguard is almost certainly a better deal on platform fees and probably others too. The main advantage of HL is apps, charts, selection etc. and like me you'll probably be too lazy to change once you're in.
HSBC FTSE 250 INDEX
ISHARES JAPAN EQUITY INDEX
LEGAL & GENERAL US INDEX
1. I'd be tempted to switch out FTSE 250 for 100 or, if you hate Britain, pick something else. It's underperformed for obvious reasons in recent years and your bet will be that the vaccine programme continues to lead on Europe and possibly even the US meaning we can be normal-ish sooner.
2. Japan is a good bet for long-term stability and Abe-Suga have been doing things Japan has needed for a long-time in opening up trade. It's also in good proximity to the rest of Asia without so much obvious problems.
3. The US just grows and this has beaten all my other bets. It has a little star next to it and is cheap so it makes me feel special. Throw all your money here if you want, fuck it all.
Previously I looked into South Korea but things have been booming for too long imo and I expect it'll drop like a stone as people cash out like happened with tech. I did a jolly with Italy recently but it just pissed me off by doing nothing and a specialist fund is expensive.
|>>|| No. 8164
>LEGAL & GENERAL US INDEX
I've got some of the L&G Global Tech Index one which is doing well for me. ALSO you need some Fundsmith in your life, they're doing the best out of all my funds.
|>>|| No. 8165
If you're going to pick funds then the key thing is to understand what you're actually investing in rather and why you've chosen those funds than following what everyone else seems to be doing. Otherwise when things get choppy you'll start to panic.
I would pick a global equity fund for the core of your holdings that you can set and forget about. Most people when they're investing look to manage risk and they try to do that through spreading their investment around; investing across the globe would provide better diversification than investing in one geographic region. This does depend on your attitude to risk; you could diversify further by investing across other asset classes but there is the trade-off between risk and reward so it'd be at the expense of potentially lower returns; if you're investing over the long-term then the shorter term peaks and troughs of the markets get smoothed out anyway.
Once you've got your core established you could look to have satellite holdings in whatever takes your fancy. Biotech. Health. Gold. Individual stocks. Anything you have a particular interest in or passion about helps on this front.
Lastly, whichever platform is best for you will depend upon how much you're investing and how frequently you trade. In my shoes AJ Bell shit all over HL but it's not best for everyone.
|>>|| No. 8168
Is it possible to get enough of an insight in a particular industry that you invest and make money from that specific area?
I've worked in biotech and health for the past couple of years and would have loved to have thrown money towards a few companies during that time, but never had the money to be able to do it.
|>>|| No. 8169
I'll give you a few examples. My friend is a vegan and he's quite passionate about the environment, so he's invested in companies that he feels will do well in those areas like Beyond Meat and funds like Baillie Gifford Positive Change; the latter was absolutely ridiculous last year because its largest holdings include Tesla and Moderna. I have a friend who works in food technology, or something like that, so he's bought into Agilent Technologies because he's been impressed with them through his dealings in that industry and they've been steadily going up.
I work in financial advice and the only company I've invested in related to that is AJ Bell, so please use their platform, because I like them as a company and I knew when they floated at the end of December 2018 their price would go up considerably. Everything beyond that is taking a punt on a fund like Smith & Williamson Artificial Intelligence that is in sectors I have a hunch will do well at the time.
|>>|| No. 8170
I reckon the right kind of advice is to invest in the companies you like. If you think killing crabs is great and there's a certain business who provides a quality service then you do a little further research (e.g. ESG) and invest. Obviously they're doing something right by the consumer and by raising demand for shares you offer them greater potential to raise capital for improvements that, by extension, help you have better crab killing products. Then when they fuck up by doing a new crab saving product line you'll hopefully be ahead of the curve enough to get out.
It's an idealist outlook and there's other ways to invest but you ought to be cynical of getting in early on the next big thing or even beating the market. Also if you're investing in anything related to your profession then seriously sit down and ask if you could defend it in a tribunal - that goes double if you're an NHS-lad as even the whiff of being bent will leave a mark.
|>>|| No. 8171
In b4 it's in the news that millions gets pumped into Games Workshop because you nerds decide to invest in your hobbies.
|>>|| No. 8172
Games Workshop performed better than the market last year if I'm not mistaken.
I want to buy some Abcam shares because they just went public last year but they're not listed on eToro.
I bought Thermofisher Scientic because I recognized it from working in Mol Bio labs and it's looking pretty healthy so far with a presentation to be made this week.
I have no idea what I'm doing.
|>>|| No. 8174
About five years ago the Games Workshop share price was about £5.50. It's currently at about £117.
|>>|| No. 8175
That already happened in 2016. Have a look at a chart that covers Games Workshop's entire history.
|>>|| No. 8177
People have theorised about what caused it, from the release of the Primaris range introducing new blood to the 8th edition of 40K and renewed interest image of Sigmar riding the wave of popularity "nerd stuff" in general is enjoying recently (thanks to the likes of TV shows such as Stranger Things featuring DnD).
However personally I think it's just a complete stroke of luck for them, they had new management take over and released a refresh of much of their product range [i:]just[/i] in time for the lads who were kids in the 90s and early 00s, during GW's last major peak in popularity, to start reaching the stage in the life they can afford to spend a fuckload of money on plastic soldiers they wish they'd had as a kid.
|>>|| No. 8178
I would also ay a part of it there's a lot of bored people with time on their hands spending it painting up models.
|>>|| No. 8179
Yeah, they've no doubt done very well out of the pandemic, but they were already on the upward trajectory before it.
I wouldn't consider them a safe investment though, I forsee it going the same way as before where they eventually get a bit too greedy and alienate a lot of customers. The non-grognard normies won't stick around when the nerd culture fad ends in another few years.
|>>|| No. 8181
They've been putting out video games pretty consistently in recent years which have been pretty well received.
Whilst I don't like the business model of the Necromunda re-release it seems to be the TG equivalent of doing DLC which has been very profitable for the video gaming industry.
If GW allows somebody to do serious TV/Movie adaptations of their IP I could see them increasing sales further still.
|>>|| No. 8182
I'm a bit miffed at the number of supplements in the new Necromunda but a full range of gangs and rules are, afaik, available through one book now. You just need to hold on and not buy things as soon as they're released as they seem to consolidate them later much of the time.
Of course you can just use the minis for vintage necromunda, the new gang kits are very nice.
|>>|| No. 8183
If they'd just do a proper skirmish like Necromunda but with 40k minis/factions, I'd be all over it. Kill Team is shit.
|>>|| No. 8196
My Stobart investment has roughly doubled in value. What stupid company should I reinvest the gains into?
|>>|| No. 8200
Weaponised Autism generated some remarkable movement in Gamestop Stock yesterday.
Those people reckon PLTR price is being suppressed until lockup is over and that the price should moon at the end of this month. Only 20% of stock is in circulation currently, with the 80% owned by insiders to potentially go on sale the first week of February. Citi just downgraded the stock this morning and so it's doing especially shitty today. This is a data analysis type company who has its fingers in a lot of State Surveillance type activity. Potentially could be a ten bagger if it goes the way of Tesla (Peter Thiel is in the Paypal mafia).
Blackberry has been doing poorly, but had a rebound after doing a deal with Amazon before being shorted into the dirt by Hedge Funds. They're getting involved in making software for EV so maybe could be on track for an uptrend.
I like the ARK ETFs for being able to invest in an area of tech without having to put too many eggs in a single basket (but for a couple of them the growth is driven mainly by TSLA).
finviz.com is a cool site to look at stock info
I don't know anything about investing except what I'm told to do by /r/wallstreetbets and /biz/ on the other place.
|>>|| No. 8214
The Wallstreetbets phenomenon is endlessly amusing, at least if you're someone that can afford to invest a few grand on something a meme post told you to buy. I keep seeing posts like "I found wsb yesterday and now I own 100 GME shares" which feels like a disaster waiting to happen, but then I suppose it's not really different to people watching youtube videos ten years ago about how to become your own boss via forex trading.
|>>|| No. 8215
It goes for all forms of investing really. UKPersonalFinance is full of people who don't know what they're doing and will invest in Vanguard because they've decided to follow what everyone else is doing without truly understanding why or what this actually means, so they'll they have to sell their investment and reinvest it every time it goes up to benefit from compounding or some dumb bollocks like that; it was fun watching them flap around when everything went tits up in March.
|>>|| No. 8216
I was doing really well from my Blackberry trade then fucked it all up by buying Bionano Genomics high. I'm one of the poor retail meme investors that you richlads are being judgy about.
|>>|| No. 8217
No judgement, I'm in the dangerous position of knowing a little bit but not a lot. There's no doubt my portfolio would be better off had I just followed the top post on WSB every week. If their polls of holdings are to be believed, they're basically a decentralised hedge fund at this point, and playing their own game. I don't know what the industrylads think about it, but I like it, it feels new.
|>>|| No. 8218
My take is that most of the trading that happens is algorithmic (like in Flash Boys) and conforms to certain specific patterns based on stock movement with little consideration of things that are happening in the real world regarding companies.
Large hedge funds manipulate markets to suit themselves by throwing their weight behind trades. These people usually have boomer mindset and it's most apparent when shorting companies to try and acquire them at less than fair market value.
Trading has become more accessible to poor people via things like RobinHood and although individual behaviour isn't enough to move markets, collective behaviour can be influential.
Young professional traders are frustrated because they understand the flaws in the market and can see how the whales manipulate it, but are unable to do anything about it. see Byron the Bulb from Gravity's Rainbow If they post on the other place they can recruit sufficient numbers of people to achieve the kind of 'Open Source Hedge Fund' phenomenon you mention.
Most of the successful investment of recent decades has operated on a kind of Rentier Capitalism or Capturing Value kind of paradigm, whereas a lot of the tech stocks that have flourished recently are creating new tech and new markets creating a potential future space for growth.
I can't figure out how much of the current sitch is Speculative Bubble and how much is actual New Paradigm, but I will continue to gamble my beer money on markets for as long as Pubs, Restaurants and Cinemas are closed.
|>>|| No. 8221
>I'm going to shock everyone here by admitting I don't have a pension myself (I'm incredibly pessimistic about the mid future and I'm absolutely certain almost no one under 40 is going to live long enough to receive the state pension if it even exists in 45 years time)
...and? What's that got to do with building a personal pension? Surely that's an incentive to do more about it?
|>>|| No. 8222
>, so they'll they have to sell their investment and reinvest it every time it goes up to benefit from compounding
|>>|| No. 8223
I've been having similar thoughts myself although I keep having a horrible pessimism from the potential for manipulation either deliberate or because of spectacle. That and the story of the senior Kennedy knowing a crash was imminent because a shoeshine boy tried giving him stock tips.
Oh well, may as well enjoy the roaring '20s while they're here. Maybe one day the whales in Forex will get a well deserved kicking.
|>>|| No. 8224
GME short squeeze hit today. Might not be over yet.
|>>|| No. 8225
I don't think it will be over for a while, today was probably just one fund hitting margin, there's more to come.
I'm really interested to see what comes of this. Can the SEC file against a subreddit?
|>>|| No. 8226
It seems like on the face of it it would be absurd, it's less coordinated but more visible than other blocs. Wish that mod hadn't posted on twitter, it all seemed fun until then.
Anyone dipping a toe in this? Obviously dangerous expecting these relatively short returns, but this could be a phenomenon that never happens on such scale again.
|>>|| No. 8227
I bought in at 18 and sold on the first spike at 28 because I'm a moron, then bought in again at 38 and sold at 62 because that's when etoro closed trading.
Reckon I'll buy in again at 60 because I see it going to 100 before this is over and over the course of the past year wanking is yielding severely diminishing returns with regards to dopamine release in my brain.
|>>|| No. 8228
I bought in at 20 based on the initial short squeeze chatter. I should have bought more than I did, really, but I'm not complaining. Will likely hold all next week. I'm holding out hope that it reaches the same silly levels the VW squeeze did, though I will not lose sleep over "only" tripling my money if I close at numbers like we did today.
The one I'm expecting to retire on is still PLTR. Or a certain northern airline that's doing well even during a pandemic that I cannot legally tell you to buy.
|>>|| No. 8229
It will be funny if they do 'then this self-professed army of retards and autists proclaimed they would send this stock to the moon'.
There is considerable evidence that hedges were naked short selling which is very illegal and complaints have been made to the SEC regarding this.
Michael Burry called the situation in March of last year, so I think reddit is getting way too much credit for this
|>>|| No. 8230
>Michael Burry called the situation in March of last year, so I think reddit is getting way too much credit for this
This is fair, though I think it can't be argued against that the momentum was built on reddit.
|>>|| No. 8231
Actually the tipping point was Cramer talking about it after arguing with people on Twitter but same diff.
Everything is connected.
|>>|| No. 8232
>There is considerable evidence that hedges were naked short selling
This is typically how short squeezes tend to work. There are sell orders in for more shares than can actually be acquired, prices rise on the buy-backs, then the shorts can't cover their positions because nobody's selling. The exact same thing happened to Volkswagen a few years ago, when Porsche used options to huff VOW when the shorts piled in, resulting in a squeeze that briefly made it the most valuable company in the world.
|>>|| No. 8233
On further research, at one point there were short positions on 144% of the issued shares in GameStop. It's impossible to back that fully, by definition, so clearly at least a third of that must have been naked.
|>>|| No. 8234
Got a spare few hundred bob. I'd not planned on looking into trading until the house was sorted, and nothing short term, but lurking wsb has basically just been for the craic until this point. Now I feel like I just want to walk into the casino with £500 and leave my card at home.
Does anyone have a suggestion on where I could find the steps to put my money to short term, high risk work on this GME thing?
|>>|| No. 8235
I think it's too late to go to work on the GME thing, but if it hits $60 you can expect it to hit $100. Ryan Cohen is projecting $169, but people will realise gains at a prices lower than this. The market closed last week on a jump of 10% in an hour and the price dropped following that.
I'm long on BB, GEVO, BNGO, PLTR and expect significant movement soon, but nothing like GME has seen.
|>>|| No. 8236
Confess - you initially looked into that because you could tell people you won money on bingo.
|>>|| No. 8237
But seriously, the company is a new player in the genomics space. Other established companies like ILMN and TXG are doing R&D focusing on increasing coverage and fidelity. While Nanopore technology will ultimately be the gold standard genomic technology (see: Oxford Nanopore Technologies) for the forseeable future once it surpasses existing PCR based techniques, BNGO's Saphyr tech can take lower resolution pictures of the genome faster and potentially cheaply enough to be employed in routine clinical practice.
There was a recent paper using the platform to diagnose autism, they are currently working on seeing if it can be used to predict who will have severe outcomes following COVID infection. The applications for this kind of diagnostic approach has great potential in a wide range of diseases.
Initially the ARK investors were cold on the company, but have since made comments indicating interest. If ARKW takes it up as a holding the price will likely jump. I think they are planning on offering additional shares at discount to institutions which will likely tank the price in the short term.
I'm a science wonk and have done some OG sequencing and NGS work previously and believe in the future of the tech although this company is potentially a risky pick. Most of my holdings are in boring/safe/established Biotech companies, but this one has a lot of room to grow. PACB is another meme gene stock in this sphere but given its recent parabolic growth I think I was too late to this particular party.Woof!
|>>|| No. 8238
The ~£221 in my Trading212 account on Friday is now up to ~£262 at the minute. Lads, how do I stop myself from getting carried away and pumping all of my cash holdings into shares I know nothing about?
|>>|| No. 8239
First piece of advice is not to take financial advice from anonymous strangers online.
Second would be not to put more into the market than you can afford to lose. Who knows how long this bubble will last?
Third don't invest in things you don't understand. Good gamblers tend to know a bit about the horses they are betting on beyond their names.
finviz.com is a good site for reading up on individual shares.
'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' is a classic investing book
'The Intelligent Investor' is a good, more recent book on the topic which details a defensive investment strategy.
'Quantitative Momentum' is one I read recently which I have been using to interpret charts.
|>>|| No. 8241
Cool site, but for all the stocks I looked at the reddit peak interest follows the market action (reddit interest doesn't appear to cause share price increase). Peak reddit interest tends to be followed by a plateau in share price.
I'd like to see a similar site for 4chan /biz/ stock mentions
I'd also like to see cluster analysis regarding which stocks are mentioned in the same place/by the same people
This is pretty interesting too
2021 is the year that Bitcoin millionaires from 4chan accidentally initiated an international, decentralized, non-linear hedge fund waging war against aggressive short sellers. It's behaving like an egregore.
|>>|| No. 8242
Had $8 left in my Revolut, so bought some GME. I have no idea what I'm doing, but if I can turn it into £20 then curly wurlies are on me.
|>>|| No. 8244
>'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' is a classic investing book
Agree - it's a really good book.
|>>|| No. 8245
I've got about £75 spare. Do I join the GME train or have I left it too late? I decided against it on Friday afternoon when it was at about $60 and I do have a habit of thinking I've missed the boat followed by things continuing to go up and up.
|>>|| No. 8246
Can't even afford half a share as that's currently £110.
|>>|| No. 8250
If I cash out now, it's £12.20. It seems the meteoric rise is slowing?
Do I hold tight with that £12 or take out my initial investment of 2 meal deals (or 12 cans of tesco's cheapest cider) and leave the other £6 to do what it may?
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