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|>>|| No. 8117
Several lads here seem to have a grasp of investments and so on. Do any of you have a regular income outside "earner income"? What kind of category does it fall into, and how did you come into it?
I had a nice image, but brian isn't playing ball today. It's a list of different (very broad) types of income:
1 Earner income : work a job
2 Profit income : buy and sell
3 Interest income: lending money
4 Dividend income: owning stock
5 Rental income: renting out property
6 Capital gains : assets increase in value
7 Royalties: others use your work
|>>|| No. 8118
There seems to be a growing trend for people wanting to do "side-hustles" or to live off passive income, but if r/UKPersonalFinance is anything to go by these tend to be people earning <£22k or with about a grand in cash they want to generate an income from. The reality is most of these people would be far better served putting that effort into maximising their salary.
My girlfriend does surveys for Prolific in her spare time which, off the top of my head, guarantee to pay at least £8 an hour. She also participates in research studies, with the best one being getting paid £100 to wear a Fitbit for 8 weeks and at the end of the study getting to keep both the Fitbit and the Motorola phone provided to track your progress on it.
|>>|| No. 8119
Fair observation, and I agree. There's probably some psychological comfort in the feeling that you're not fully reliant on one source of income, even if the reality is that you are reliant due to how little you earn overall.
Personally, I am putting all my effort into maximising income in my chosen field at the moment. I've landed a decent job for 2021 (about 32k per year after tax) and intend to live a slightly nicer life than I have been for the past two years, where I was scraping by on part time work while earning a postgraduate degree.
Once I do have some savings, though, at what point does it become worthwhile investing in something? I've heard some arbitrary figures thrown out, such as "don't invest until you've saved at least 25k". Is there any good reason for this kind of thinking?
I also admit I'm someone that is inclined to save as a form of "runway" to take further big career risks, e.g. moving country or putting my money toward a new qualification. These have almost universally paid off so far, but I have also considered where I might be if I put that money to other uses. I could make a more informed decision about these kind of tradeoffs if I knew where I could put my money and what sort of return (if any) I could expect.
|>>|| No. 8120
Use your pension allowance to the full. It's tax free, if you take a salary sacrifice you'll pay no NI on your contributions and your employer will often match, so it's unbelievably cost-effective. If you play your cards right, you can often double your money before you've earned a penny in interest.
For similar reasons, get a Lifetime ISA - the government will give you a 25% bonus as long as you use the money to buy your first home or keep it until retirement.
|>>|| No. 8121
>Once I do have some savings, though, at what point does it become worthwhile investing in something? I've heard some arbitrary figures thrown out, such as "don't invest until you've saved at least 25k". Is there any good reason for this kind of thinking?
It all depends on your goals. Saving for a house, having a retirement plan, other capital expenditure, that sort of thing.
When it comes to cash it's generally recommended to keep at least six months of expenditure relatively available for emergencies or if you lose your job.
|>>|| No. 8122
Buy buttcoins. They've gone from £22k to almost £26k in about 24 hours, so at this rate they should be worth well over £100k by the end of next week.
|>>|| No. 8123
>"don't invest until you've saved at least 25k"
No, that's a waste and you'll never save that on your earnings. I was on about the same as you last year and believe me that after spending on a girlfriend and the odd trip to see a mate or parents there's not much left. You're poor and should find a lass with money.
My rule is £800 budgeted in my bank account as contingency/twat-money for immediate access and then savings go into a fund and share account. I suggest putting a regular savings amount from your monthly budget in a low-cost index tracker\s and if it all goes south then we'll all have bigger things to worry about. Don't bother with 'owt fancy that has an objective to beat the system, shitcoins or trying to play the market.
Like otherlad suggest you'll want to think about your long-term savings goals and for a Lifetime ISA the cap is 4k a year which nets you a 1k bonus. You can use this towards a deposit on your first home but be warned that taking money out of this means the government also takes 1/4 so consider this money locked. I suggest that come march open a Lifetime ISA and dump what you have saved which won't impact your April 2021-22 amount. You're goal being to have 4k in a share and fund account you can dump right into your Lifetime ISA every April.
|>>|| No. 8124
Not him, but I have £25k liquidity, sitting in my current account doing nothing, and I'm on less than the average wage. But I'm not going to pretend I'm a self-made man, I'm from a reasonably well-off family which has given me the freedom to build those savings. Maybe the shit advice on waiting has come from people from a similar background that don't have the same self-awareness.
|>>|| No. 8125
>I have £25k liquidity, sitting in my current account doing nothing
That's insane and goes against even the most conservative advice I've seen. By 25k in savings I'm sure they mean putting that in an ordinary savings account on which there are many with the lower return end offering immediate access.
|>>|| No. 8126
Oh of course I'm not doing it deliberately, I'm just too lazy to look into where I should be investing it. I suppose I'll keep back five grand for six months of emergencies as advised earlier, and put the rest into... ISAs? Trackers? Eh I dunno, I'm already bored.
|>>|| No. 8128
Can you still take advantage of the Lifetime ISA if you have the HelpToBuy ISA already?
|>>|| No. 8130
As has been said, you need to work out what you're wanting to do with this money first. If you'll need the funds in five years keep it in cash, beyond that look to invest it.
|>>|| No. 8131
It's literally a few hours of your life and then you're best off leaving it alone and forgetting about it. Those few hours will earn thousands of pounds every year for the lifetime of the money sitting there which will rise as the money grows and you can boast to people that you're some money wizard.
If you can't manage that then there are people whose whole job is to manage money for a fee. Putting money into a fund/credit-union/whatever is pretty much that anyway. You can ring up your bank right now and say "hello I have 20k, tell me what to do with it" and they'll be calling you Sir and offering video calls.
You can only pay into one ISA a year but there's nothing stopping you having both existing beyond that. Just consider that taking money out of a Lifetime ISA for anything but a limited number of reasons carries a 25% penalty whereas HtB varies by provider.
>If you'll need the funds in five years keep it in cash
I think the term 'cash' might be misleading in this context. A savings account with a financial institution will be guaranteed under FSCS if the institution goes bust up to more than any of us need worrying about.
|>>|| No. 8132
>My rule is £800 budgeted in my bank account as contingency/twat-money for immediate access and then savings go into a fund and share account. I suggest putting a regular savings amount from your monthly budget in a low-cost index tracker\s and if it all goes south then we'll all have bigger things to worry about. Don't bother with 'owt fancy that has an objective to beat the system, shitcoins or trying to play the market.
Do you mean £800 just as a standby in your account, or £800 put away just to fuck with per month? The latter is too much for me at £32k per year.
"Beating the system" is honestly a huge draw as to why I made this thread, but I know I may have to adjust my expectations. I imagine aiming for FIRE requires living like a monk unless you're an extremely high earner, or you're planning to reach retirement only a few years earlier than average.
Regardless, I want the best possible outcome for myself. Even though at the moment my main goal is to get a good job, I wish it wasn't my only option aside from starving.
|>>|| No. 8133
One of my friends is doing FIRE and he's now earning £35k but was up until recently on £24k. He uses salary sacrifice to put most of his earnings into a pension and avoid repaying any student loan then puts about £600pm into an ISA that's invested largely in punts and ethical funds. I'd say he doesn't live like a miser, but he either walks or takes public transport everywhere and always lives in house shares.
|>>|| No. 8134
I don't live like a miser, but do like the FIRE methodology very much; I was lucky enough to get paid a LOT in my twenties and poured money into my pension. I think it's one of the best investments you can make (and about the only really good money thing I ever did). Will retire very early.
|>>|| No. 8135
Standby, I fucking wish I had £800 a month to piss up the wall. I eyeballed it awhile ago but got by on £200 which was frequently dipped into back when I was on 31k and we weren't under lockdown. I'd post a snapshot of my budget only purple is holding us ransom for takeaway Pizza.
>Regardless, I want the best possible outcome for myself. Even though at the moment my main goal is to get a good job, I wish it wasn't my only option aside from starving.
Money is magnetic, scrimp and save you will soon attract more is my general advice.
|>>|| No. 8136
I'm pretty much in the same boat - I've been wondering recently what the upper limit on salary sacrifice is - I could really do 100% and use the money from my other sources to live on, but I feel like they won't let me do that.
|>>|| No. 8138
I have 60 grand in an instant access saver as my "I don't care if I get fired because I have a year's living expenses" fund. Is there anything more intelligent I could be doing with that money assuming I might need to start drawing £5k/month out of it at some point?
|>>|| No. 8139
You must have a much nicer life than me if you need 60 grand as a year's living expenses.
|>>|| No. 8140
Must be one of those London lads paying 30k a year in rent and another twenty on quinoa.
|>>|| No. 8141
The upper limit on annual pension contribution is £40k per year.
|>>|| No. 8144
Depending on the interest rate of your savings account, Premium Bonds may be better - currently 1% equivalent interest. Though it is not quite instant access - it takes a few days I think to get your money, it is zero risk (and it is nice to get an email saying you have won).
|>>|| No. 8145
Premium Bonds! I was trying to remember the name last night and all I could come up with was "National Bonds" which didn't sound right at all. Googling for "like the national lottery but government bonds" was surprisingly unhelpful too.
My savings account is currently at a measly 0.25% interest. I'm sure if I went down to the local branch (if and when it's ever open, are physical banks essential in the age of cash machines and online banking? My mum's in her 70s and knows how to use a cash machine) I could get some kind of upgrade to another type of savings account but those bonus deals usually only last a year before they revert to the standard rate.
Cheers lad, you've not only fixed my tip-of-my-tongue issue from last night you've also given me a decent idea to investigate. Thanks lad!
|>>|| No. 8146
I've also noticed that NS&I do a nice little Junior ISA that I can throw up to £9000 a year in tax-free for the nipper to blow through when he either goes on a gap yaah or gets his first ASBO.
|>>|| No. 8147
If you've the spare dosh put £240 a month into a pension for him. Tax relief would gross it up to £300.
|>>|| No. 8149
It's a lottery where you get all your money back if you lose, guaranteed by the government. With interest rates at record lows, it's not the worst option for ultra-safe savings. You'll probably win nothing, but if the alternative is getting 0.01% APR...
|>>|| No. 8150
It's significantly better than the bedrock low rates you'll get anywhere else at the moment if you don't have huge amounts to invest.
My grandad had premium bonds, and going through his finances when he died they did perform better than his ISA over about 30 years, that always stuck out to me as we always made fun of him for getting excited when he got a letter saying he won two quid or whatever.
|>>|| No. 8152
I'm going to shock everyone here by admitting I don't have a pension myself (I'm incredibly pessimistic about the mid future and I'm absolutely certain almost no one under 40 is going to live long enough to receive the state pension if it even exists in 45 years time) so I'd never considered that you could start building a pension pot for a kid, an interesting idea.
That said, assuming the entire world doesn't end within the next 15 years or so he could at least cash out a Junior ISA at 18 and go scuba diving around Venice while Rome burns, or something.
|>>|| No. 8153
Get a fucking pension lad. The best time to start a pension is ten years ago, but the second best time is now. If you don't trust the state to provide for you in old age, then that's all the more reason to provide for yourself.
|>>|| No. 8154
A little exercise in compounding, ladm8. If an investment grows by 6.5% annually it would double every 11 years. Let's say you put £3,600 into a pension for a newborn sprog. Tax relief means your initial outlay is £2,880.
At age 11 it's doubled to £7,200.
At age 22 it's doubled to £14,400.
At age 33 it's doubled to £28,800.
At age 44 it's doubled to £57,600.
At age 55 it's doubled to £115,200.
At age 66 it's doubled to £230,400.
If you were in a position to do this for a few years then you would be setting your kid up for life with a comfortable retirement. There's a reason the wealthy tend to do this for their grandchildren, in part because it's also taking funds out of their estate for IHT.
|>>|| No. 8155
While I doubt I'll ever be wealthy enough to ever need to worry about inheritance tax, 6.5% APR is very, very nice indeed. Cheers lad, I'll look into it.
|>>|| No. 8156
You lot are talking about complicated stuff, but I would like your thoughts on something. I have about £18,000 just resting in a savings account. I have been meaning to stick it in a stocks & shares ISA to buy into a index tracker of sorts. Is that advisable?
Please no lifetime ISAs or anything that will penalise me for withdrawing my money early.
|>>|| No. 8157
Meanwhile, inflation is 5%. Oh look, that compounds too.
Management fees and the occasional Woodford 'nah, no money for you' also make me an unenthusiastic investor. I do have a pension (company matches, so good), but my pension statements over the years really don't show the magic of compounding leading to a rosy future. Those pounds I spent as a fresh graduate 30 years ago, have led to a pot I can earn in a few days. I could really have done with that money back then.
Small scale investing just feels like a waste of time, compared to using that time to earn more or do interesting things (like buying slightly nicer houses and riding that insane train, has worked for me at a level I've never even seen suggested for other investments).
_Saving_, though, makes sense, since at some point I'd like to stop work or ease off, but I'm just not seeing my saving pot actually growing much. Can it really and should I put the effort in?
Wish I'd mined bitcoin back in the day and kept it, but who doesn't...
|>>|| No. 8158
If we're talking proper actual returns over a 60 year timeframe then inflation between 1959 and 2019 averaged out at 5.4% annually.
I don't think a global stock market index has been running that long. The MSCI World Index is probably the furthest you can go back and between January 1975 and January 2021 it has returned 21415.40%, so that's a compound return of 12.39% p.a. if I've done my sums right.
>the occasional Woodford
If you're unhappy with active management then use an index tracker. Woodford is so noteworthy because what happened is so rare; it's certainly not an 'occasional' event.
|>>|| No. 8159
It depends on your appetite for risk. Market performance far outstrips the interest on savings accounts but it goes up and down so if there's a crisis and you need to withdraw in a 5 year timeframe then you can lose money (common wisdom is that you will have made money by year 5). To address this risk people usually maintain a portfolio that includes bonds and what-not in fractions that vary by age - bonds are safer but the return reflects that so are better for old people's pension savings.
There's lots of stuff you can read online about this. As before think about what you're doing.
With that out the way; I'll say that I remain confident and even though I'm planning to buy a house this year I condensed everything in December into three low-cost trackers covering Japan, US and UK which I consider safe as a chav in a box. That's cocky by common wisdom but I'm confident for reasons and if 1 and/or all shit the bed then I'll just spend a few more years putting money in before I buy a place which will end up considerably better than what I can afford now. Also I'm a lazy fucker.
Bonds are still a joke of an investment in terms of returns. Hence Premium Bond lads gambling on a 1% return.
Why bother? You're not going to exceed £12.3k in profits to be eligible for capital gains tax. If you do then, fuck me, I'll pay your CGT if you tell me what it is you're doing.
You're not losing anything by opening a fund and share account as an ISA, maybe compare platform fees but I doubt it'll change. What you will do though is lose the chance to pay into another ISA that year - should that ever be something you want to do.
|>>|| No. 8160
> Why bother? You're not going to exceed £12.3k in profits to be eligible for capital gains tax. If you do then, fuck me, I'll pay your CGT if you tell me what it is you're doing.
I thought interest from bank accounts was treated as income for the purposes of income tax. Have I missed something or are you suggesting setting up a limited company with a business account so that interest counts towards capital gains and not personal income?
|>>|| No. 8161
Thanks mate. I will read up some more on it.
>three low-cost trackers covering Japan, US and UK
Could you share what trackers that might be and what platform you would recommend? I have been eyeing HL for a bit now.
|>>|| No. 8162
HL is great.
I have a couple of Legal & General Funds which are doing great, the one HSBC tracker I have is doing shit.
|>>|| No. 8163
This is a HL website!
That said you pay more in platform fees on HL which add up (my tips will cost you £7~ a month on your amount) so if you just want to plop some money down then Vanguard is almost certainly a better deal on platform fees and probably others too. The main advantage of HL is apps, charts, selection etc. and like me you'll probably be too lazy to change once you're in.
HSBC FTSE 250 INDEX
ISHARES JAPAN EQUITY INDEX
LEGAL & GENERAL US INDEX
1. I'd be tempted to switch out FTSE 250 for 100 or, if you hate Britain, pick something else. It's underperformed for obvious reasons in recent years and your bet will be that the vaccine programme continues to lead on Europe and possibly even the US meaning we can be normal-ish sooner.
2. Japan is a good bet for long-term stability and Abe-Suga have been doing things Japan has needed for a long-time in opening up trade. It's also in good proximity to the rest of Asia without so much obvious problems.
3. The US just grows and this has beaten all my other bets. It has a little star next to it and is cheap so it makes me feel special. Throw all your money here if you want, fuck it all.
Previously I looked into South Korea but things have been booming for too long imo and I expect it'll drop like a stone as people cash out like happened with tech. I did a jolly with Italy recently but it just pissed me off by doing nothing and a specialist fund is expensive.
|>>|| No. 8164
>LEGAL & GENERAL US INDEX
I've got some of the L&G Global Tech Index one which is doing well for me. ALSO you need some Fundsmith in your life, they're doing the best out of all my funds.
|>>|| No. 8165
If you're going to pick funds then the key thing is to understand what you're actually investing in rather and why you've chosen those funds than following what everyone else seems to be doing. Otherwise when things get choppy you'll start to panic.
I would pick a global equity fund for the core of your holdings that you can set and forget about. Most people when they're investing look to manage risk and they try to do that through spreading their investment around; investing across the globe would provide better diversification than investing in one geographic region. This does depend on your attitude to risk; you could diversify further by investing across other asset classes but there is the trade-off between risk and reward so it'd be at the expense of potentially lower returns; if you're investing over the long-term then the shorter term peaks and troughs of the markets get smoothed out anyway.
Once you've got your core established you could look to have satellite holdings in whatever takes your fancy. Biotech. Health. Gold. Individual stocks. Anything you have a particular interest in or passion about helps on this front.
Lastly, whichever platform is best for you will depend upon how much you're investing and how frequently you trade. In my shoes AJ Bell shit all over HL but it's not best for everyone.
|>>|| No. 8168
Is it possible to get enough of an insight in a particular industry that you invest and make money from that specific area?
I've worked in biotech and health for the past couple of years and would have loved to have thrown money towards a few companies during that time, but never had the money to be able to do it.
|>>|| No. 8169
I'll give you a few examples. My friend is a vegan and he's quite passionate about the environment, so he's invested in companies that he feels will do well in those areas like Beyond Meat and funds like Baillie Gifford Positive Change; the latter was absolutely ridiculous last year because its largest holdings include Tesla and Moderna. I have a friend who works in food technology, or something like that, so he's bought into Agilent Technologies because he's been impressed with them through his dealings in that industry and they've been steadily going up.
I work in financial advice and the only company I've invested in related to that is AJ Bell, so please use their platform, because I like them as a company and I knew when they floated at the end of December 2018 their price would go up considerably. Everything beyond that is taking a punt on a fund like Smith & Williamson Artificial Intelligence that is in sectors I have a hunch will do well at the time.
|>>|| No. 8170
I reckon the right kind of advice is to invest in the companies you like. If you think killing crabs is great and there's a certain business who provides a quality service then you do a little further research (e.g. ESG) and invest. Obviously they're doing something right by the consumer and by raising demand for shares you offer them greater potential to raise capital for improvements that, by extension, help you have better crab killing products. Then when they fuck up by doing a new crab saving product line you'll hopefully be ahead of the curve enough to get out.
It's an idealist outlook and there's other ways to invest but you ought to be cynical of getting in early on the next big thing or even beating the market. Also if you're investing in anything related to your profession then seriously sit down and ask if you could defend it in a tribunal - that goes double if you're an NHS-lad as even the whiff of being bent will leave a mark.
|>>|| No. 8171
In b4 it's in the news that millions gets pumped into Games Workshop because you nerds decide to invest in your hobbies.
|>>|| No. 8172
Games Workshop performed better than the market last year if I'm not mistaken.
I want to buy some Abcam shares because they just went public last year but they're not listed on eToro.
I bought Thermofisher Scientic because I recognized it from working in Mol Bio labs and it's looking pretty healthy so far with a presentation to be made this week.
I have no idea what I'm doing.
|>>|| No. 8174
About five years ago the Games Workshop share price was about £5.50. It's currently at about £117.
|>>|| No. 8175
That already happened in 2016. Have a look at a chart that covers Games Workshop's entire history.
|>>|| No. 8177
People have theorised about what caused it, from the release of the Primaris range introducing new blood to the 8th edition of 40K and renewed interest image of Sigmar riding the wave of popularity "nerd stuff" in general is enjoying recently (thanks to the likes of TV shows such as Stranger Things featuring DnD).
However personally I think it's just a complete stroke of luck for them, they had new management take over and released a refresh of much of their product range [i:]just[/i] in time for the lads who were kids in the 90s and early 00s, during GW's last major peak in popularity, to start reaching the stage in the life they can afford to spend a fuckload of money on plastic soldiers they wish they'd had as a kid.
|>>|| No. 8178
I would also ay a part of it there's a lot of bored people with time on their hands spending it painting up models.
|>>|| No. 8179
Yeah, they've no doubt done very well out of the pandemic, but they were already on the upward trajectory before it.
I wouldn't consider them a safe investment though, I forsee it going the same way as before where they eventually get a bit too greedy and alienate a lot of customers. The non-grognard normies won't stick around when the nerd culture fad ends in another few years.
|>>|| No. 8181
They've been putting out video games pretty consistently in recent years which have been pretty well received.
Whilst I don't like the business model of the Necromunda re-release it seems to be the TG equivalent of doing DLC which has been very profitable for the video gaming industry.
If GW allows somebody to do serious TV/Movie adaptations of their IP I could see them increasing sales further still.
|>>|| No. 8182
I'm a bit miffed at the number of supplements in the new Necromunda but a full range of gangs and rules are, afaik, available through one book now. You just need to hold on and not buy things as soon as they're released as they seem to consolidate them later much of the time.
Of course you can just use the minis for vintage necromunda, the new gang kits are very nice.
|>>|| No. 8183
If they'd just do a proper skirmish like Necromunda but with 40k minis/factions, I'd be all over it. Kill Team is shit.
|>>|| No. 8196
My Stobart investment has roughly doubled in value. What stupid company should I reinvest the gains into?
|>>|| No. 8200
Weaponised Autism generated some remarkable movement in Gamestop Stock yesterday.
Those people reckon PLTR price is being suppressed until lockup is over and that the price should moon at the end of this month. Only 20% of stock is in circulation currently, with the 80% owned by insiders to potentially go on sale the first week of February. Citi just downgraded the stock this morning and so it's doing especially shitty today. This is a data analysis type company who has its fingers in a lot of State Surveillance type activity. Potentially could be a ten bagger if it goes the way of Tesla (Peter Thiel is in the Paypal mafia).
Blackberry has been doing poorly, but had a rebound after doing a deal with Amazon before being shorted into the dirt by Hedge Funds. They're getting involved in making software for EV so maybe could be on track for an uptrend.
I like the ARK ETFs for being able to invest in an area of tech without having to put too many eggs in a single basket (but for a couple of them the growth is driven mainly by TSLA).
finviz.com is a cool site to look at stock info
I don't know anything about investing except what I'm told to do by /r/wallstreetbets and /biz/ on the other place.
|>>|| No. 8214
The Wallstreetbets phenomenon is endlessly amusing, at least if you're someone that can afford to invest a few grand on something a meme post told you to buy. I keep seeing posts like "I found wsb yesterday and now I own 100 GME shares" which feels like a disaster waiting to happen, but then I suppose it's not really different to people watching youtube videos ten years ago about how to become your own boss via forex trading.
|>>|| No. 8215
It goes for all forms of investing really. UKPersonalFinance is full of people who don't know what they're doing and will invest in Vanguard because they've decided to follow what everyone else is doing without truly understanding why or what this actually means, so they'll they have to sell their investment and reinvest it every time it goes up to benefit from compounding or some dumb bollocks like that; it was fun watching them flap around when everything went tits up in March.
|>>|| No. 8216
I was doing really well from my Blackberry trade then fucked it all up by buying Bionano Genomics high. I'm one of the poor retail meme investors that you richlads are being judgy about.
|>>|| No. 8217
No judgement, I'm in the dangerous position of knowing a little bit but not a lot. There's no doubt my portfolio would be better off had I just followed the top post on WSB every week. If their polls of holdings are to be believed, they're basically a decentralised hedge fund at this point, and playing their own game. I don't know what the industrylads think about it, but I like it, it feels new.
|>>|| No. 8218
My take is that most of the trading that happens is algorithmic (like in Flash Boys) and conforms to certain specific patterns based on stock movement with little consideration of things that are happening in the real world regarding companies.
Large hedge funds manipulate markets to suit themselves by throwing their weight behind trades. These people usually have boomer mindset and it's most apparent when shorting companies to try and acquire them at less than fair market value.
Trading has become more accessible to poor people via things like RobinHood and although individual behaviour isn't enough to move markets, collective behaviour can be influential.
Young professional traders are frustrated because they understand the flaws in the market and can see how the whales manipulate it, but are unable to do anything about it. see Byron the Bulb from Gravity's Rainbow If they post on the other place they can recruit sufficient numbers of people to achieve the kind of 'Open Source Hedge Fund' phenomenon you mention.
Most of the successful investment of recent decades has operated on a kind of Rentier Capitalism or Capturing Value kind of paradigm, whereas a lot of the tech stocks that have flourished recently are creating new tech and new markets creating a potential future space for growth.
I can't figure out how much of the current sitch is Speculative Bubble and how much is actual New Paradigm, but I will continue to gamble my beer money on markets for as long as Pubs, Restaurants and Cinemas are closed.
|>>|| No. 8221
>I'm going to shock everyone here by admitting I don't have a pension myself (I'm incredibly pessimistic about the mid future and I'm absolutely certain almost no one under 40 is going to live long enough to receive the state pension if it even exists in 45 years time)
...and? What's that got to do with building a personal pension? Surely that's an incentive to do more about it?
|>>|| No. 8222
>, so they'll they have to sell their investment and reinvest it every time it goes up to benefit from compounding
|>>|| No. 8223
I've been having similar thoughts myself although I keep having a horrible pessimism from the potential for manipulation either deliberate or because of spectacle. That and the story of the senior Kennedy knowing a crash was imminent because a shoeshine boy tried giving him stock tips.
Oh well, may as well enjoy the roaring '20s while they're here. Maybe one day the whales in Forex will get a well deserved kicking.
|>>|| No. 8224
GME short squeeze hit today. Might not be over yet.
|>>|| No. 8225
I don't think it will be over for a while, today was probably just one fund hitting margin, there's more to come.
I'm really interested to see what comes of this. Can the SEC file against a subreddit?
|>>|| No. 8226
It seems like on the face of it it would be absurd, it's less coordinated but more visible than other blocs. Wish that mod hadn't posted on twitter, it all seemed fun until then.
Anyone dipping a toe in this? Obviously dangerous expecting these relatively short returns, but this could be a phenomenon that never happens on such scale again.
|>>|| No. 8227
I bought in at 18 and sold on the first spike at 28 because I'm a moron, then bought in again at 38 and sold at 62 because that's when etoro closed trading.
Reckon I'll buy in again at 60 because I see it going to 100 before this is over and over the course of the past year wanking is yielding severely diminishing returns with regards to dopamine release in my brain.
|>>|| No. 8228
I bought in at 20 based on the initial short squeeze chatter. I should have bought more than I did, really, but I'm not complaining. Will likely hold all next week. I'm holding out hope that it reaches the same silly levels the VW squeeze did, though I will not lose sleep over "only" tripling my money if I close at numbers like we did today.
The one I'm expecting to retire on is still PLTR. Or a certain northern airline that's doing well even during a pandemic that I cannot legally tell you to buy.
|>>|| No. 8229
It will be funny if they do 'then this self-professed army of retards and autists proclaimed they would send this stock to the moon'.
There is considerable evidence that hedges were naked short selling which is very illegal and complaints have been made to the SEC regarding this.
Michael Burry called the situation in March of last year, so I think reddit is getting way too much credit for this
|>>|| No. 8230
>Michael Burry called the situation in March of last year, so I think reddit is getting way too much credit for this
This is fair, though I think it can't be argued against that the momentum was built on reddit.
|>>|| No. 8231
Actually the tipping point was Cramer talking about it after arguing with people on Twitter but same diff.
Everything is connected.
|>>|| No. 8232
>There is considerable evidence that hedges were naked short selling
This is typically how short squeezes tend to work. There are sell orders in for more shares than can actually be acquired, prices rise on the buy-backs, then the shorts can't cover their positions because nobody's selling. The exact same thing happened to Volkswagen a few years ago, when Porsche used options to huff VOW when the shorts piled in, resulting in a squeeze that briefly made it the most valuable company in the world.
|>>|| No. 8233
On further research, at one point there were short positions on 144% of the issued shares in GameStop. It's impossible to back that fully, by definition, so clearly at least a third of that must have been naked.
|>>|| No. 8234
Got a spare few hundred bob. I'd not planned on looking into trading until the house was sorted, and nothing short term, but lurking wsb has basically just been for the craic until this point. Now I feel like I just want to walk into the casino with £500 and leave my card at home.
Does anyone have a suggestion on where I could find the steps to put my money to short term, high risk work on this GME thing?
|>>|| No. 8235
I think it's too late to go to work on the GME thing, but if it hits $60 you can expect it to hit $100. Ryan Cohen is projecting $169, but people will realise gains at a prices lower than this. The market closed last week on a jump of 10% in an hour and the price dropped following that.
I'm long on BB, GEVO, BNGO, PLTR and expect significant movement soon, but nothing like GME has seen.
|>>|| No. 8236
Confess - you initially looked into that because you could tell people you won money on bingo.
|>>|| No. 8237
But seriously, the company is a new player in the genomics space. Other established companies like ILMN and TXG are doing R&D focusing on increasing coverage and fidelity. While Nanopore technology will ultimately be the gold standard genomic technology (see: Oxford Nanopore Technologies) for the forseeable future once it surpasses existing PCR based techniques, BNGO's Saphyr tech can take lower resolution pictures of the genome faster and potentially cheaply enough to be employed in routine clinical practice.
There was a recent paper using the platform to diagnose autism, they are currently working on seeing if it can be used to predict who will have severe outcomes following COVID infection. The applications for this kind of diagnostic approach has great potential in a wide range of diseases.
Initially the ARK investors were cold on the company, but have since made comments indicating interest. If ARKW takes it up as a holding the price will likely jump. I think they are planning on offering additional shares at discount to institutions which will likely tank the price in the short term.
I'm a science wonk and have done some OG sequencing and NGS work previously and believe in the future of the tech although this company is potentially a risky pick. Most of my holdings are in boring/safe/established Biotech companies, but this one has a lot of room to grow. PACB is another meme gene stock in this sphere but given its recent parabolic growth I think I was too late to this particular party.Woof!
|>>|| No. 8238
The ~£221 in my Trading212 account on Friday is now up to ~£262 at the minute. Lads, how do I stop myself from getting carried away and pumping all of my cash holdings into shares I know nothing about?
|>>|| No. 8239
First piece of advice is not to take financial advice from anonymous strangers online.
Second would be not to put more into the market than you can afford to lose. Who knows how long this bubble will last?
Third don't invest in things you don't understand. Good gamblers tend to know a bit about the horses they are betting on beyond their names.
finviz.com is a good site for reading up on individual shares.
'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' is a classic investing book
'The Intelligent Investor' is a good, more recent book on the topic which details a defensive investment strategy.
'Quantitative Momentum' is one I read recently which I have been using to interpret charts.
|>>|| No. 8241
Cool site, but for all the stocks I looked at the reddit peak interest follows the market action (reddit interest doesn't appear to cause share price increase). Peak reddit interest tends to be followed by a plateau in share price.
I'd like to see a similar site for 4chan /biz/ stock mentions
I'd also like to see cluster analysis regarding which stocks are mentioned in the same place/by the same people
This is pretty interesting too
2021 is the year that Bitcoin millionaires from 4chan accidentally initiated an international, decentralized, non-linear hedge fund waging war against aggressive short sellers. It's behaving like an egregore.
|>>|| No. 8242
Had $8 left in my Revolut, so bought some GME. I have no idea what I'm doing, but if I can turn it into £20 then curly wurlies are on me.
|>>|| No. 8244
>'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' is a classic investing book
Agree - it's a really good book.
|>>|| No. 8245
I've got about £75 spare. Do I join the GME train or have I left it too late? I decided against it on Friday afternoon when it was at about $60 and I do have a habit of thinking I've missed the boat followed by things continuing to go up and up.
|>>|| No. 8246
Can't even afford half a share as that's currently £110.
|>>|| No. 8250
If I cash out now, it's £12.20. It seems the meteoric rise is slowing?
Do I hold tight with that £12 or take out my initial investment of 2 meal deals (or 12 cans of tesco's cheapest cider) and leave the other £6 to do what it may?
|>>|| No. 8252
Just refreshed and now I'm down to £5. I don't think I could handle doing this with real amounts of money.
|>>|| No. 8253
I say no and at most get out before Friday. Although I've said no everyday because this is completely irrational and you're following the crowd on a stock that is already obscenely overvalued.
My more general advice is get £35 more and use it on a low-cost corporate bond index tracker. I don't think I'm a madman for realising the bullrun will end by Spring when reality starts to bite and retail investors who have stuck way too much of their savings on tech stocks cash out because they need to pay rent. Defence now, risky bullshit later. You might have enough for a chomp by the year's end.
|>>|| No. 8254
Doing it with real amounts of money, on real stocks, doesn't feel anything like this to be honest. Enjoy the fun while it lasts, and you're not on the losing side.
|>>|| No. 8255
I'm not involved but it seems that now is the worst time to get involved because the whole internet is getting excited about this shit.
|>>|| No. 8256
This. Usually it's just putting money somewhere and forgetting about it for a few months, not this madness.
Believe it or not, it's still going to go up. Impossible to tell by how much, but there's still millions of $20-40 shorts out there. Usually when the shoeshine boy gives you stock tips you know to get out, but for once there's no trick, the shorts have to cover, the only thing we don't know is where the peak is or how fast it'll wind back down.
However, the people on the losing side of this are huge and have friends in high places. They already appear to be lying to CNBC about big firms closing - the volume doesn't back this up.
|>>|| No. 8257
I'm just idly observing this thread and jumping in because I don't understand - "it's still going to go up ... there's still millions of $20-40 shorts out there ... the shorts have to cover" - sorry I'm not following, I thought the shorts having to cover would mean that they are selling now, so why would that drive the price up? Or are you saying that it needs to go up further in order to force them to cover and Reddit aren't done yet?
|>>|| No. 8258
Sorry ignore me, I'm being an idiot and forgot what shorting means. They have to buy the stock back at a loss and that will drive it higher.
|>>|| No. 8259
>Believe it or not
No. Remember the advice given in this thread and the other; don't invest in things you don't understand. I'm doing that. You might make money investing now, you might not. But investing now is the wrong thing to do, because it's still up in the air.
|>>|| No. 8260
I'm going to split what I was going to put in GME 50:50 into two of these. Which should I go for:-
Aalberts NV (AALB) - a Dutch water technology company.
Clean Harbors Inc (CLH) - A US hazardous waste company.
Rayonier Inc (RYN) - A sustainable timber company.
PTC Inc (PTC) - A CAD software developer.
NIBE Industrier AB (NIBE) - A Swedish heat pump manufacturer.
Ivanhoe Mines (IVN) - A Canadian mining company looking to plunder Africa.
Vocera Communications (VCRA) - Something to do with healthcare and voice recognition.
Vapotherm (VAPO) - Specialise in treating respiratory diseases.
Lyra Therapeutics (LYRA) - Specialise in ear, nose and throat treatment.
These are all complete and utter punts.
|>>|| No. 8261
That's fair. I'm not telling anyone to do anything, particularly if their only understanding comes from an imageboard post saying "no really guys".
|>>|| No. 8262
>Ivanhoe Mines (IVN) - A Canadian mining company looking to plunder Africa.
Um... maybe not them.
|>>|| No. 8263
>Clean Harbors Inc (CLH) - A US hazardous waste company.
That one stood out to me, assuming they deal with nuclear. That's a problem that's been needed to be dealt with for decades, and is only really starting to make progress now. I imagine any company with solutions to nuclear waste would be a solid bet.
I know nothing of the company though, for the love of good do your own research.
|>>|| No. 8265
Sciencelad here. Def not VAPO or LYRA as they are trending down. VCRA looks ok. The first two don't really have any drugs in the pipeline and what they do have is unlikely to succeed in the coming years, and if it does it's unlikely to take market share from existing similar things.
VCRA is trending upwards really nicely, but it's not going to get any crazy momentum. Telemedicine is very vogue in terms of tech innovation, it's a lot easier to deliver than pharma type stuff. This company appears to be making a system so mums can skype with their newborns in hospital and you know what women are like when it comes to spending all their money on babies.
|>>|| No. 8266
£$€¥ is getting out of hand now. Do more research on the businesses until you know you have an undervalued sure thing, if you don't know then at best leave it in a cheap tracker until you do.
Part of that can involve drawing up a long-term plan for your portfolio based on broader assumptions - rising renewables would be a safe bet with COP26 this year but equally I suspect the likes of BP is seriously undervalued by wishful thinking.
|>>|| No. 8267
Praps, but with the price of oil dropping and the massive sustained reduction in consumption due to covid, and that 'oil is a safe bet' is priced in to these chairs, and the EV tipping point that we seem to be reaching, and all the laws and regulations regarding carbon emissions the oil boys might be on the way out.
The Biden administration is replacing the presidential fleet with electric cars.
FedEx is supposedly making the switch to EVs made by GM.
When I lived in China, nobody had petrol scooters everybody had ebikes. Uptake of electric cars there has less resistance culturally and from baron types. Air pollution is so bad in some places at some times of the year that environmentalism is one of the biggest political issues for the people who live there.
|>>|| No. 8270
Can you help me, I invested in a SPY but he's not contacted me yet.
|>>|| No. 8272
Robinhood is trending as they've apparently stopped individual investors buying GME and a bunch of others that have been shorted.
|>>|| No. 8273
Trading212 have done it for GME and AMC. My BlackBerry holding has gone from +100% to +38% in the space of about a day.
|>>|| No. 8274
What's their reason/excuse for doing this? I don't see how stopping your users from buying but not from selling is anything other than market manipulation?
|>>|| No. 8275
T212 have said they're protecting investors from risk due to some funds having unprecedented volatility. I think part of it is because their website has been known to go down due to struggling with demand.
My BB position is now down to +14%. Fucking hell.
|>>|| No. 8276
That's a bit ridiculous, the only way to protect investors from risk is to not be a broker at all, and this is certainly a bit rich coming from a brokerage all to happy to offer a 90% chance of loss on CFDs any other day of the week.
I assume BB is tanking because the people that can still buy GME are dumping the former to buy the latter in a mad panic. It's a bit mental to see so much interest suddenly directed to trading in general, and seeing one huge event in one stock affect the whole market like this. I do wonder/worry for all the people with brand new accounts who might think this is how investing works.
|>>|| No. 8278
>These trading apps were all founded to take advantage of retail investors to the benefit of big hedge funds. Their statement is exactly correct, but the investors mentioned are not the app users.
Excellent way of putting it. I'll be stealing this to sound clever to my friends.
|>>|| No. 8279
I know it's a trite thing to say but the house doesn't like it when they start losing. Any casino in the world will ask you to leave if you start winning too much, whether you're cheating or not. The game's rigged Insert shitty "Always Has Been" meme here .
|>>|| No. 8280
Fuck it, I'm doubling down on BB and putting some in Nokia because they've mainly crashed as Seppos can't trade them on the likes of Robinhood.
|>>|| No. 8281
My £6.50 of GME was briefly £9.50, and is now about £3.10. what a rollercoaster.
|>>|| No. 8282
Nokia might actually be the worst punt of all time. Godspeed you utter madlad.
|>>|| No. 8283
I need to get in on this but I'm lazy and I'd probably fuck it up.
|>>|| No. 8284
Nokia was around $4.20 per share on Friday before jumping to a high of $7.33 yesterday. Americans can't trade in it at the moment and it's fallen to $4.68. Likewise, BB reached a high of $28.26 yesterday and now it's down to $14.10.
When the Americans are able to trade again in these stocks I expect them to shoot up again, but this is more of a hunch than anything.
|>>|| No. 8285
I put a few quid into ETH and doge coins. All these redditors with newfound fortunes are going to do something with the money they don't immediately spend on vinyl figurines. Not a terrible bet that they'll go up.
|>>|| No. 8286
I mined thousands of Dogecoin back at the start. Have the wallet.dat on an old HDD so will be spending the evening finding out if I've got a pre-booked seat on the rocket.
|>>|| No. 8287
You're watching history in the making here lads.
Ted Cruz is argreeing with AOC on Twitter for calling foul on the Robinhood malarky.
Even the app's name is pretty unfortunate given what is playing out here.
|>>|| No. 8288
Seems as though Robinhood is maybe selling people's stocks against their will.
This, and them refusing to let people buy the stock doesn't surprise me. Something like this was inevitable. What's going to be interesting to see is how angry this makes people and what it motivates them to do.
I've made almost £5 in dogecoin in the past two hours. I can see how this is addictive.
|>>|| No. 8289
The thing I've found out with this, or at least when things are as volatile as they are, is that you need to make snap decisions, and you need to give it basically undivided attention. Thinking of putting another tenner into GME even though I'm down at the moment because surely the angry reddit septics will find a way to buy it, and when they do, we can upgrade to a box of Celebrations... each.
|>>|| No. 8290
What's your long term plan for Dogecoin?
I'm convinced it's just a pump and dump, but I wonder where it's going to end up.
|>>|| No. 8291
I might try to take the value of my initial investment back out tomorrow if it hasn't been dumped, no plan beyond that.
|>>|| No. 8292
So, uh .. how do you buy and sell crypto coins?
Is there a central market for them where you can list buy and sell orders, interpret market data, etc or do you watch forums & chat rooms to personally arrange transactions?
How'd you get the cryptocoin into a regular bank account?
I'd like to get into the former without the risk of it affecting my benefit claims, like i assume stock marketing would.
|>>|| No. 8294
It's quite disheartening to think, the same people who pumped and dumped throughout the crash with impunity and generally profited on human misery for decades, will be pressuring for market reform overnight because Reddit made one stock into a meme. And they'll get it.
It's sad because this could be big. Revolution in the old sense of the word may be impossible but there's a glimmer of hope here that collectively, ordinary people can beat the elites at their own game. This is class consciousness gone viral.
|>>|| No. 8295
I was reading about how Citadel (the firm that bailed out Melvin Capital to the tune of a couple billion the other day) are the platform that Robinhood (the largest US brokerage app) trades through. 40% of Citadel's revenue is via Robinhood.
Apparently the block on trade's came through due to pressure from Citadel, and they reupped on their shorts before the app removed the option to buy from retail investors.
This is undeniable market manipulation on the part of Citadel, and it's going to be tricky to blame this on retail investors without significant far-reaching long-term political implications.
The business models of these apps is that they collect data on you and use it to inform their investing decisions. Surveillance Capitalism in its purest form. Ironically the system these Surveillance Capitalists are creating is a trap that will eventually capture them also.
Like right now the firms are trying to short-term fuck with the market to cover their positions and just about making it, but longer term the position is untenable. This is the Aesop's Fable type example that history books will use to explain the prevailing trends of global politics in the wake of the next inevitable revolution.
A small cabal of elites abuses their position of privilege and power to exploit the masses. When the masses adapt and overcome the system is modified or obstructed to prevent the correction. All it's going to do is make those already with a grievance recalcitrant.
The people participating in the market largely believe the neoliberal rhetoric spewed by politicians for decades and are trying to improve their lot by participating in the system.
It's not a market, it's a shell game.
The same people who have crashed the economy 50 times in their lifetime are going to call foul because a bunch of nerds saved one struggling brick-and-mortar video game retailer.
This is a fight against principalities and evil doers and unclean spirits
American Millennials getting politically radicalised by a stock brokerage app is the most 2020s vibe yet.
|>>|| No. 8296
You need a copyeditor because you said the same thing several times.
|>>|| No. 8297
Sure, but anything worth saying was said centuries ago and everything since is just variations on a theme.
|>>|| No. 8298
Have they started alleging it's Trump supporters and racist ne'er-do-wells behind it yet?
|>>|| No. 8299
It tickles me that the /r/Stonks lot seem to think that the suspension of GME on Robinhood is some kind of conspiracy, rather than a completely routine response to weird trading. They might not believe it, but Robinhood is acting in the interests of their customers by refusing to execute really stupid transactions - anyone going long on GME in the last few days is on the losing end of a Ponzi scheme.
Institutional shorts have lost a lot of money over the past couple of days, but a lot of retail investors will lose even more. The short squeeze can't last forever, GME will eventually fall to a realistic price and a lot of people are going to lose their shirts.
|>>|| No. 8300
No shit, but at this point I don't think anyone is pretending the money is the important bit.
The important bit is how well it's demonstrating how exactly the things you point out are fine when certain people do it, but when normal people collectively do it, it's cheating.
|>>|| No. 8301
Shorts don't get to cover instantly and all at once, you'd have to be asleep for days to miss being profitable in a short squeeze. Besides, that's what sell and stop limits are for. Either you're running a free market or you're not, and in my ten years of investing no brokerage has ever blocked my transactions or changed their margins during a halt and sold my positions for me.
They're acting in the interests of their customers, for sure. But retail investors are not the customers. And it's hardly just silly redditors that think this is a conspiracy, look in this thread - there's cross party support for investigating robinhood for this.
|>>|| No. 8302
>Institutional shorts have lost a lot of money over the past couple of days, but a lot of retail investors will lose even more
They'd have been on track to lose a lot more if they weren't able to bring the price of GME down yesterday.
|>>|| No. 8303
Could you explain to me how a short squeeze is a ponzi scheme?
|>>|| No. 8304
I was right. The king of the reddit nerds pumped doge overnight so it tripled in value (for a bit). I was able to take out slightly more than I put in and still have more than that left in the account.
|>>|| No. 8305
Well played lad. I will never have the stones for speculative crypto.
|>>|| No. 8307
Decided to jump on the meme train overnight. Threw in £100. It's currently worth £56.08. When is this thing supposed to head for the moon again?
|>>|| No. 8308
Doge? It's trending downwards now. Probably best to try and forget about it for a few weeks, months or until you see people getting excited about it again.
|>>|| No. 8310
Elon Musk just changed his twitter bio to #Bitcoin
Make of that what you will.
|>>|| No. 8311
It was already 1000% up on its month-ago price when you bought. Why would it increase any more? Do you believe in the business? It sells xbox controllers and Fallout bobble-heads.
|>>|| No. 8313
>Why would it increase any more?
Because there's still billions of dollars in naked shorts?
|>>|| No. 8315
Look, the GameStop thing makes sense, it's fighting against hedge funds making money off of a failing company. But I can't see the same justification for getting involved with cryptocurrencies. They are barely currencies at all, given they aren't backed by anything and don't have normal circulation. It's just speculation, the thing the GameStop squeeze was meant to stop. Who's the enemy when it comes to crypto, who am I fighting by buying Bitcoin or Dogecoin? If I make any money from crypto is it coming from a hedge fund or off the back of some other poor sap who didn't close quickly enough?
|>>|| No. 8316
Elon is just a bored billionaire troll, presumably just testing the waters to see how much money a tweet can make him.
I just see trading crypto as forex but riskier, and if you'd told me ten years ago you'd invented a market riskier than forex I'm not sure I'd have believed you. If you believe in the idea of a decentralised currency then that is the fight, but as long as we keep speculating BTC and treating it like a stock we're not going to actually be able to use it as a legitimate currency anyway.
|>>|| No. 8317
Apparently there's 11million options that expire on BlackBerry today if the share price is below $15 and hedge funds will have to pay out on all of them if the share price is at least $30.
|>>|| No. 8318
Notification from T212 that they've enabled trading in GameStop and AMC today, but earning there could be lengthy execution disruptions to buy and sell orders.
|>>|| No. 8319
Turns out FreeTrade have been waiting to validate me for over a year. Oops.
How are you guys doing this? We don't have Robin Hood over here, I'm basically the only person I know that's heard of FreeTrade. Are people just using real brokers like AJ Bell? Obviously a bit late now but I don't want to get *ahem* caught short next time something like this happens, assuming wall street doesn't throw a paddy.
|>>|| No. 8320
My DOGE have recovered to £72. I might actually get my original investment back by the end of today.
|>>|| No. 8321
>presumably just testing the waters to see how much money a tweet can make him
There's an SEC injunction banning him from tweeting about stonks.
|>>|| No. 8322
There isn't going to be a next time. I can't see there being a situation like this again where short interest is at ~140%.
|>>|| No. 8323
>I can't see there being a situation like this again
People said the same thing after the Porsche "infinity squeeze" but here we are.
|>>|| No. 8324
You could just put up an offer to sell your DOGE for £100 now. It'll sit there until they're worth that much then sell as soon as it reaches that point.
|>>|| No. 8325
That's what I'm concerned about. Well, I mean a bit late now, but yeah I'm assuming there will be a tectonic shift that will make things like this much less possible.
I remember speaking to .gs people about bitcoin back when it was still being used to buy pizza. I'm not the quickest off the block.
|>>|| No. 8326
The VW squeeze didn't involve millions of internet autists who are actively looking to cripple hedge funds.
|>>|| No. 8327
I have a real broker but the UK options to go for seem to be eToro and Trading 212. I haven't put much research in but they're both zero commission.
|>>|| No. 8328
Instead it involved a couple of hard-headed business owners who were actively trying to cripple hedge funds. What's your point?
|>>|| No. 8329
The right thing to do would be to shore up the holes that allow a stock to still be nakedly shorted, despite that already being illegal in and of itself. That would be a Good Thing for any level of investor, even the big hedge funds if they're being honest with themselves.
What will actually probably happen is some sort of law that restricts retail trading volume, because that's the nightmare world we live in.
With cross party support though, and the likes of AOC being really rather angry about robinhood, we might actually see a financial rule that benefits more than just the very top of the pile, but this is still america we're talking about.
|>>|| No. 8331
Nokia is up 10% today. The Milky Bars are on me.
|>>|| No. 8333
is that one of those trading ads that's aimed at MEN so it's all SHOUTING and TESTOSTERONE?
|>>|| No. 8334
What? No. It's just a Peter Serafinowicz soundalike telling you how easy it is to invest one pound.
|>>|| No. 8335
If you aren't blocking ads you aren't even human.
|>>|| No. 8336
I switched computer a few times at work, and was a bit lazy about adblock. Getting ads during relaxing music, or expecting to hear one thing and then getting some jarring tune, are fucking tortuous. It's disgusting how things have gone. I wonder if adblockers have pre-emptively placated some of the potentially most vocal critics of ad dominance on the net.
|>>|| No. 8337
>I switched computer a few times at work, and was a bit lazy about adblock.
I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of it but I don't believe this cock and bull story for a second. Bet you don't have admin privileges and can't work out ad blocking on yer phone.
|>>|| No. 8338
TBF you don't even need admin privileges to install a new browser with all the extensions you want. If push comes to shove a zipped up Firefox portable with all the trimmings downloaded from your email will do in a pinch.
|>>|| No. 8339
I'm just incredibly lazy and worked for a family firm with eccentric management practice. We overhired before covid and I had WFH priority, so I was hotdesking when I did come in, and gave up on bothering to set up on every browser for various reasons.
I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of this. I bet you stick your cock in USB ports.
|>>|| No. 8340
My over 100% gain in BlackBerry on Wednesday has currently turned into a 3% loss on my investment. Fucking hell.
|>>|| No. 8341
Marathon, not a sprint. Though that said, you're dealing with something volatile.
|>>|| No. 8342
Not sure what to do with my Dogecoin now. I mined them at the start as part of the joke, and them got bored.
This madness prompted me to recover the wallet and transfer them into a trading account. Not sure whether to just cash out and blow my winnings on a takeaway and some toy soldiers, or swap them for a tiny subfraction of a Bitcoin.
|>>|| No. 8343
It's clearly volatile in a way that BTC isn't any more. In your position I'd cash out enough for one of those things as a treat and keep the rest just in case the people trying to pump it succeed.
|>>|| No. 8344
If I plan to cash out from this stocks trading and have only made a fiver, do I need to fill in any forms for HMRC? The US w8-ben form has already been filled in, so I don't think I need to declare anything else (i.e. below the CGT threshold). Can I just cash out and not worry?
|>>|| No. 8347
I'm getting really tired of this. Bitcoin seemed like a curiosity, and now they are worth millions. Dogecoin seemed like quite an explicit joke, and now it's worth millions.
So fuck it, the next time something comes along I can invest in, and I feel dismissing it as a joke, I'll put like a tenner in and hold it for ten years just in case it blows up. That's what the hedge funds do right?
|>>|| No. 8348
I heard about bitcoin on .gs when people were still buying pizza with it :/ I console myself by assuming I would have left my wallet on the HDD which my mum chucked out.
The more disposable income you have and the more reliable your ideally growing income stream is, the more retarded punts you can take.
|>>|| No. 8349
I had a quarter of a buttcoin on a hard drive which failed around 2010 or so. I console myself in the knowledge i'd have sold it at $100 or $1000 - I definitely wouldn't still be hanging on to it now.
|>>|| No. 8352
If by any chance you still have the hard drive, the data is probably recoverable.
|>>|| No. 8353
I don't unfortunately, but it was a mechanical failure, I recall hearing a horrible mechanical screech. I don't know how much platter scanning costs these days, but I suppose if I was still on there it'd be worth recovering as long as the wallet.dat wasn't under the head. Ah well.
|>>|| No. 8354
I know it's probably too late, but I think I'm going to try and buy the dip on GameStop tomorrow.
I've saved up enough money over lockdown that I'm not going to spend on anything better, so it shouldn't matter if I lose it all.
I want to believe the WallStreetBets shills who are sure the hedgefunds haven't covered their shorts, but who the fuck knows.
|>>|| No. 8355
I sold 275 dogecoin last night and used the profit from that to buy 375 this morning. Is there any reason not to just keep doing that?
|>>|| No. 8356
Don't do it, lad. The speculative bubble is going to burst and all that's going to happen is the money moving to Blackrock. The amount of people who are going to get badly burnt by this madness and wishful thinking is ridiculous.
>so it shouldn't matter if I lose it all
It's money ffs. At a minimum make another bet so you can play out the fun for longer. Saab are going to post their earnings mid-month or you can look at what is trending and Reddit and gamble that the users will never cash out on anything.
Dogecoin will go back to being worthless when people forget about it. A short bet if there ever was one.
|>>|| No. 8357
Does it count as income from outside the UK? I think the W-8BEN means it doesn't. If it does then I need to do an SA, I think.
All my googling around this is clear as milk. Never again, all this for a fiver.
|>>|| No. 8358
If it's true that the short interest is still > 100% and the hedgefunds are still in the game it seems a fairly safe bet that the short squeeze hasn't happened yet, right? Obviously I will plan an exit strategy to get out before it collapses.
I like to think I am hedged by my bets on the FTSE and gold & silver...
|>>|| No. 8360
The foreign capital gains declaration is for when you've already paid CGT abroad (e.g. IRS) and is again above the threshold. There's a form you fill out over the threshold with a section for it.
Depends on who you ask. The MSM will tell you that has already happened and was why there was a price spike on midweek when all the shares were bought back. The internet will tell you that it's all bollocks and there were loads of hands on this short that have yet to cash.
At a minimum use common sense and hold until tomorrow afternoon given opening market volatility. If GME sees a steep decline in value then I see it tipping into a panic where the sharks will beat you. A fair amount of people will have stepped away from the hype over the weekend and done some clearer thinking.
>I like to think I am hedged by my bets on the FTSE and gold & silver...
You'll want to diversify away from the FTSE with US and Nikkei equities. Not totally (and the CPTTP will give a bump) but the FTSE is a bit shit and you can only get away with one market when you're talking about the US economy.
Precious metals are a mugs game if you ask me - too volatile to do the job of bonds, good for inflation and gold frankly behaved odd last year. Although full disclosure I wouldn't touch them anyway as I find directly speculating on the price of natural resources a bit distasteful.
|>>|| No. 8361
This is all useful advice thanks. The sentiment I'm seeing online would suggest that people are intent on holding GME, but who knows that for everyone saying they will hold there are plenty more preparing to cash out?
Talking out my arse here, but I might buy GME if it dips <300 (perhaps around 270), though I feel like if it goes below 200 again its probably game over.
I think I'll probably buy some AMC as well because it's cheap and why the fuck not. I'm split on whether it is more likely to be a distraction from GME or potentially the next short squeeze though.
On the FTSE and precious metals I'm mainly just buying on the expectation that inevitable further rounds of QE will keep pushing them higher. Plus I'm too lazy/stupid to work out what specific stocks are good buys.
|>>|| No. 8362
>This is all useful advice thanks. The sentiment I'm seeing online would suggest that people are intent on holding GME, but who knows that for everyone saying they will hold there are plenty more preparing to cash out?
Thankfully(ish) some people are getting a bit wrapped up in their own hype, so I think you'll see a decent amount of people holding because they want to support the higher ideal, meanwhile the rest of us can hopefully cash out leaving them holding the bag.
|>>|| No. 8363
I wouldn't be throwing any money after the GME thing now, but I would be holding if I had shares in hand.
I felt really ill on Thursday/Friday after the actions of Robinhood. I'd long known the asymmetry in power structures between the wealthy and the rest of us, but it was really weird seeing the rules changed in a limited and specific way in real-time to protect hedge funds.
It's a cringe analogy, but it made me think of the bit in Avengers where Thanos gets the reality stone and as the avengers are winning he just warps reality around them to be the victor.
Capitalist power structures act like the Allied Mastercomputer from Ellison's 'I have no mouth and I must scream'. You have to participate in the system and have to believe that you can succeed within the rule set but actually if you pose any real threat to the status quo, or manage to rise above your current class and status the rules will be rejigged immediately to put the boot back on your throat.
I'm still holding my BB and NOK because I think they are good long-term investments despite getting swept up in the reddit hysteria, but the events of the past week have really soured me on the idea of investing in the stock market.
|>>|| No. 8364
Yeah I've been looking at that website, but I'm a bit concerned by the variations in short interest. How do we know the hedge funds haven't closed their positions and new shorts haven't just been opened by retail investors etc?
I did actually buy (through IG, so not the actual share) on Thursday but I panic sold after I saw the Robinhood stuff and lost a few hundred quid, which hurt a bit. Obviously in hindsight I should have held, but it felt like the game was up at the time.
Thankfully at this point I don't think I'm in it for the money. My future is financially secure(!) and I'm just having fun with lockdown savings I would have wasted on something else.
Though as much as I hope the 'little guy' wins, I'm conscious that whatever happens, in the end the big winners are gonna be the pros on Wall Street.
|>>|| No. 8367
I used to do "Matched Betting", which is basically a technique whereby you exploit the free bets offers by online bookmakers by hedging your bets using betting exchange sites like Betfair to basically make guaranteed free money. It's perfectly legal, but since the strategy generally involves placing bets at the most generous prices that the bookmaker is currently offering, their accounts team will quickly cotton on that you're a savvy punter and will ban your account, usually mentioning some bollocks about "suspicious betting patterns". I've been banned from pretty much every major online bookie in the country simply for making small bets at their most attractive prices; sometimes I'd get banned when my bets didn't even win. The moment your betting patterns prove to the accounts team that you're not just some idiot throwing away money on overly-ambitious accas they will ban you in an instant.
Even if you're a mug playing the slot machines who somehow manages to win the jackpot they'll screw you over, there was a case in the High Court last year where a player won a £1.7 million jackpot on a Betfair online slot and they refused to pay out, claiming it was a "computer glitch". Gambling, like the stock market, is a game where the house always wins, and even if by some miracle you manage to beat the house, they'll magically change the rules and tell you that, actually, you lost.
|>>|| No. 8368
Thanks fir sharing.
You are not wrong in your comparing of the stock market to a casino, but the whole idea of free-market capitalism is predicated on the idea that markets are efficient and in fact, the most efficient way to optimize an economy and therefore society.
If the stock market is a glorified casino, and a rigged ine at that, it gives a whole lot less legitimacy to the existing neoliberal status quo.
Why should tax payers bail out a casino?
Why should COVID-19 welfare be given to a casino?
Hopefully this raises consciousness and gives humanistic politics (as opposed to 'market uber alles') some momentum in the coming years. I'm doubtful though as most people are mongs conditioned by social media to be either useful idiots or common-or-garden idiots
|>>|| No. 8369
>Why should tax payers bail out a casino?
The stock market isn't a casino. Buying a share means literally buying a part of a company, usually including voting rights over that company's decisions. The /r/WallStreetBets lot seem to have lost sight of that, which is why a lot of them don't realise that they're in deep trouble.
When a share price drops, it reflects the legitimate belief of the market that a company is going to be less profitable in the future. The GME shorts reflected an entirely reasonable belief that a mall-based games retailer is in deep trouble in a time when malls are dying and games are moving away from physical media. GME shares were trading at about $18 because that's what the market realistically believed that the business was worth.
A small number of speculators accurately identified that institutional short-sellers had shorted an excessively large proportion of GME shares and would be unable to cover their positions; these speculators have profited at the expense of the hedge funds. A much larger group of fools have paid well above the odds to buy a piece of a dying company.
The efficient market hypothesis is much more subtle than the idea that markets always get it right - it's the idea that pricing in a market is naturally self-correcting over time, largely because of speculators, arbitrageurs and short-sellers. Few if any economists believe that markets are always efficient, just that they trend towards efficiency over time. Thaler and Kahneman won the Nobel Memorial Prize for identifying irrationalities in the behaviour of market participants that cause exceptions to the EMH.
None of this madness meaningfully affects the underlying reality of GameStop's business and most of the people who are currently long on GME will lose a lot of money; if you made investment decisions based on a meme, that's very much your own stupid problem.
Buy-and-hold value investors are largely oblivious to this whole mess, because they're heavily diversified - buying a little bit of everything spreads your risk and insulates you from the day-to-day whims of speculators. They've been taking a real beating over the past year, but that reflects the ground truth of a massive economic slowdown due to Covid. The vast majority of the money in the market is being managed in an utterly boring manner even during crises, but that never makes the news because "Large Pension Fund Owns a Little Bit of Everything" isn't much of a headline.
|>>|| No. 8370
Saying it's basically a shared delusion isn't exactly an improvement on casino.
|>>|| No. 8372
Nobody knows what anything is actually worth, because all value is subjective and relative. Markets are the least-worst mechanism for price discovery.
|>>|| No. 8373
>How do we know the hedge funds haven't closed their positions
I don't know, presumably the same way people knew that GME had been heavily shorted in the first place? I don't understand where this information comes from.
|>>|| No. 8374
You say it isn't like a casino. Then you confirm their entire point by talking about how it is a speculative bubble divorced from reality.
|>>|| No. 8375
The shares are real, tangible assets. Some participants in the market might choose to pay well above the odds for those assets, but that's their decision and it doesn't detract from the fundamental usefulness of being able to buy and sell bits of businesses.
Back in March speculators were buying up toilet paper in the hopes of turning a quick buck, but that doesn't make your local Tesco a casino.
|>>|| No. 8376
>None of this madness meaningfully affects the underlying reality of GameStop's business
I would say that it has been a major PR coup for Gamestop similar to what happened with Piggly Wiggly.
|>>|| No. 8378
Short data is public but is not released in real time, the next report is due on the 9th.
There are various data companies that report their estimates based on what they know or have been told, but it's worth noting that companies can just straight up lie about their holdings. They'll get fined for false reporting, but a fine is always going to be cheaper than billions in short cover, so any large hedge fund would almost certainly report they'd already got out in an attempt to drive the price back down. It'll probably work, too, as they can hold on a lot longer than reddit seems to think they can, but it further highlights the awful, dirty system.
|>>|| No. 8380
A poke chip makes a lovely coaster for a tiny shot glass. The fact that it has that use doesn't mean its real value isn't derived from gambling.
It is clear that the value of Gamestop shares are entirely divorced from any behaviour of the company. All that is happening is one market manipulator has been caught with their pants down by another market manipulator. At that point it isn't about returns on shares or company ownership it is a gambling game the actual product is token.
|>>|| No. 8381
>Buy-and-hold value investors are largely oblivious to this whole mess, because they're heavily diversified - buying a little bit of everything spreads your risk and insulates you from the day-to-day whims of speculators. They've been taking a real beating over the past year, but that reflects the ground truth of a massive economic slowdown due to Covid.
As an utterly boring investor it's not been bad at all, the graphs have broadly gone up since March unless someone decided their definition of diversification was airlines, oil and pubs. Bonds haven't really been terrible either but where to put your money has certainly become harder.
I reckon you and >>8380 are arguing across each other though. There's a difference between investing where you feel the company itself will generate new value and naked speculation with the latter being far more risky. The problem is that speculation can only really be controlled rather than halted and I'm not sure it would be wholly beneficial to do so.
|>>|| No. 8382
I've always been fond of the idea of limiting the transferability of shares, in principle, as a means to damp down speculation and promote taking a longer view of things.
How to do it in practice is less clear.
|>>|| No. 8383
Anyone know who's going to get fucked over first come NYSE opening? I just can't see all the big money not being able to profit out of this.
Coincidentally it's quite funny checking the post history of people pushing AMC/SLV and all on wsb. New accounts, none of which are pushing GME at all, ever. Which makes me wonder whether that's a false flag operation of sorts, because surely the people who do this for a living will be able to find some way to come out on top of this.
|>>|| No. 8384
>>8382 Can exchanges not just apply a larger transaction fee? If a trade isn't worth making with a $0.10 trade, is it really worth making?
It's be fun to see all the weird non-linear effects this would cause.
|>>|| No. 8385
That is a real condition implementented on shares for CEOs to stop pump and dump tactics (they can only cash the shares after 5 years) I guess the answer is to enforce a period of ownership for everyone.
Removing borrowing of shares, and making people actually have to deliver/collect goods they have futures on what help massively
Goldman Sachs used to have a motto "long term gready" I always like that is about as ethical as you can expect a bank to be.
all of this avoids the point that these people like it to be a high risk game, do you think bitcoin would have been adopted at all if it didn't offer a get rich quick sollution? that applies to nearly all investment.
|>>|| No. 8386
Britain is fairly unusual in charging a 0.5% tax on transfers of shares, which unintentionally made us the birthplace of CFDs and various other highly-leveraged derivatives.
Fifteen years ago, you'd expect to pay £20-£30 for a retail share transaction. People complained that this was unfair on retail investors and speculators, the technology improved and we eventually got zero-fee platforms like Robinhood. Be careful what you wish for etc.
|>>|| No. 8389
>do you think bitcoin would have been adopted at all if it didn't offer a get rich quick sollution?
Bitcoin hasn't really been adopted at all, despite what some would have you believe.
|>>|| No. 8390
I'm not sure of the ratio, but it's mostly held by speculators rather than people actually using it. The potential for further bubbles is what is basically hampering it from becoming legitimate currency, as why would you spend when you can buy two pizzas next year, instead of one this year?
It got off the ground because of nerds, libertarians, and silk road etc, then got taken on by speculators. Imo it's just a matter of when, not if, it crumbles. Though other crypto may become widely used.
|>>|| No. 8391
>The potential for further bubbles is what is basically hampering it from becoming legitimate currency
That and its general uselessness as a currency.
|>>|| No. 8392
>>8389 >>8390 >>8391
This is the kind of logic that fails to understand why success happens.
There are plenty of things that are better currencies that’s not the point. No one ever will care about those I don't see anyone hoarding gemstones or gold the way they do with crypto the point is adoption, and the only people who were ever going to adopt it was people who want something volatile, if it was pinned to the USD no one would ever give a shit. You could buy into a hundred different national backed currencies right now, but you don't no one gets excited about switch their money all to Rand or Yen in the same way they do with this shit.
Ripple is the only real currency cryptocurrency, and it is terribly unexciting and functional.
|>>|| No. 8393
>This is the kind of logic that fails to understand why success happens.
For some supposed value of "success", sure.
|>>|| No. 8394
> Ripple is the only real currency cryptocurrency, and it is terribly unexciting and functional.
I'd argue that it's actually Monero, but again no one is really interested in that because it's boring and functional and never fluctuates much higher or lower than ~$150.
No one's getting rich off trading it any time soon but it's a nice stable coin that is pretty much the gold standard for anonymous purchases.
|>>|| No. 8395
They asked about adoption, I inferred they meant mainstream adoption. Are you saying bitcoin will never crumble?
No need to put others down to bring yourself up ladm@
|>>|| No. 8396
SOMEONE FUCKING TELL BLACKBERRY NOT TO DROP BELOW $11 PER SHARE.
|>>|| No. 8398
I've had to log out of my etoro account and I'm trying not to pay attention to the stock market (unsuccessfully) until the GME hype train dissipates.
|>>|| No. 8399
I'm just focusing on my very long, mostly UK or some US stocks. The GME thing whisked me up in the sort of way I didn't expect someone like me to be - I had an awful realisation on Monday that I was listening to a bunch of hyper Americans and ignoring my own knowledge and experience for that of something I simply wanted to believe was right. I think I'll buy some more of the steadily growing company I work for, the complete opposite of the trading I did last week.
I didn't lose money but I still learned some painful lessons.
|>>|| No. 8400
Are you one of those people who has ended up losing millions or one of the ones who now has to explain to their partner that you lost everything? It's a shame we can't post images on this board because I've seen some tragic posts.
>I think I'll buy some more of the steadily growing company I work for, the complete opposite of the trading I did last week.
The former employees of Enron would advise against it.
|>>|| No. 8403
>The former employees of Enron would advise against it.
It's fine, the chairman is from Yorkshire, our accounts are airtight.
|>>|| No. 8404
>because I've seen some tragic posts.
The most tragic posts are the people who were still sinking money into it yesterday, utterly convinced a 'short ladder' is happening, which I don't think is even a real phrase. That and the lad that spent his college fund on it.
I really hope for a lot of people's sake there's another spike soon, or even if somehow it does rip up - but I have a feeling these people still would not know when to exit. Or possibly, how to exit - I saw a fuckload of posts on eToro asking why the sell button on GME was greyed out, thinking that was how they closed their position.
|>>|| No. 8405
Nah. I made a nice Indian takeaway's worth of profit from GME on the way up but got out the first time NASDAQ closed the market for that stock fearing fuckery was afoot. If I had held on a couple days I could have made some decent money being that I got in at 18
My etoro account did go from a high of +50% for the year to +15% in a couple days and I feel sad that I didn't realise the gains, but I believe the shares I'm holding will go back up to where they were in a year or so.
I'm just investing beer money.
|>>|| No. 8408
The etoro newsfeeds are fucking depressing, "When do I sell", "Please tell me what to do", "Why is this happening", "I put everything on this". Only lie I've told my partner is that I lost 90 instead of 190, because then it becomes 'real money'. Absolutely worth the price of entry, I never take my card into the casino.
It took me 10 minutes or less to create an etoro account, pass the 'quiz' (a single question on leverage that seemed suspiciously simple), and deposit several hundred quid. Honestly mental, considering the risk on the line. But it's not like it's fair to stop people getting in on it. Just a shame to see them literally donating their money to hedge funds.
Haha, nice one, I was almost the same. I was up 100 at one point but 'got greedy'. I got in at 300-ish for a couple of shares. Sold for two of the big drops, picked it up a bit on the way back up. It was really fun tbh, worth the lesson and *thank fuck* I've finally just gotten a brokerage, because for 10 years my cash literally just sits in my account doing fuck all. Now the remainder is in Etsy and SPY with 100 sitting around for speculation banter and try and learn more about what the hell I'm going to do.
I'm genuinely worried this is going to distract me from work. There's so much to learn! Anyone got the number of the guy organising pump and dumps? Nah but really, do you just have to be lucky enough to be keeping an eye on the particular markets experiencing volatile movement/be in the right communities, and then just be lucky enough to get in before the stock is dumped?
|>>|| No. 8409
The £15 total I put into GME was briefly just under £30 as I was selling small dips and buying small peaks, but then I stopped paying attention Monday and Tuesday and now it's about £7. Might as well go long now and maybe turn it back into £11-12. If not, whatever.
Could be worse, could have put money I couldn't afford to lose in.
|>>|| No. 8410
>selling small dips and buying small peaks
For fuck's sake. Other way round.
|>>|| No. 8411
Seems like your tactic went as expected, really ;)
I have it on good authority that DeepFuckingValue is sending secret signals to the WSB community telling them to hold, and that today's the day. People have some insane reasoning behind this. There's no "Why would the stock rise/fall today", it's all "Keep holding! Believe!". No mate, I want to know the motivations and mechanics that would precipitate such an event.
|>>|| No. 8412
I've not even looked directly at WallStreetBets since last week, just like all stands at the Rudgwick Steam Show, it's intolerable.
|>>|| No. 8414
>Institutional shorts have lost a lot of money over the past couple of days, but a lot of retail investors will lose even more. The short squeeze can't last forever, GME will eventually fall to a realistic price and a lot of people are going to lose their shirts.
|>>|| No. 8415
So I've been buying and selling the doge incrementally. I'll buy a couple of hundred then set it to sell when the price goes up 3-5 points, then buy back in when it goes down 3-5 points. Just enough to make a few coin profit on top of the transaction fees each time.
I just checked how much I would have if I'd just bought the coins and done nothing with them, it's almost exactly the same amount as I have now.
|>>|| No. 8417
I don't get that people are complaining that they are going to lose money. You're not an expert trader, you're some ordinary slob, and the stock price will drop before you know what's happening. I though the whole point was to squeeze the shorts, not make money. People investing their college fund in GameStop? They're fucking insane. But kissing goodbye to a tenner in order to collectively fuck over some hedge funds? Absolutely that's worth it, isn't it?
|>>|| No. 8418
>But kissing goodbye to a tenner in order to collectively fuck over some hedge funds?
Don't think that's actually happening. In Hedge-Fund land, I think they're mostly generally better off now. Certainly Blackrock did very well off of this.
What happened here was hedge funds profiting off the memes as people took out loans to essentially hand them the cash.
|>>|| No. 8419
Eh? I thought there were losses in the billions?
I don't touch stocks anyway, I don't have a horse in this race.
|>>|| No. 8420
The thing people are most angry about is Robinhood restricting their trades, it really did kill momentum on the squeeze. Whether or not RH did it as part of some deep wall street conspiracy, or they just hit brokerage caps, seems irrelevant to the majority of these first timers. Either way RH's IPO was murdered in the process.
|>>|| No. 8421
There were heavily shorted funds but they will have shorted again at the peak of the squeeze and made a lot of money coming back down. They probably have still lost money on this specific ticker, but they'll have turned their nuclear bomb grade losses into more of a hand grenade.
|>>|| No. 8423
Person who bought £100 worth of dogecoin, did you cash out? They're worth about 2.4x what you put in initially now.
|>>|| No. 8424
MC might have had net losses, but Blackrock made off like a bandit from what I know.
Just thinking rationally, the kind of people to frequent WSB prior to this would have included many who already worked at, or went on to work at, hedge funds and investment banks. There is 0% chance that meme-savvy employees of Blackrock etc weren't going to come out better off than the plebs. There's also a 0% chance that this wasn't communicated upwards and factored into decisions.
At no single point did WSB, or the internet in general, ever have more information or more competence/access than the hedge funds had. I'm not saying that's what your post reads like, just that this is something a lot of people seem to have missed.
|>>|| No. 8425
There's no lack of people pointing out what you've just said, it's just that nobody wants to believe it. People are too desperate for some David vs Goliath feel good validation right now.
|>>|| No. 8426
>At no single point did WSB, or the internet in general, ever have more information or more competence/access than the hedge funds had. I'm not saying that's what your post reads like, just that this is something a lot of people seem to have missed.
This, plus they definitely didn't have the influence on the price that people in WSB are taking for granted. The HFs held and still hold most of the float.
|>>|| No. 8427
Well, I'm glad the mainstream media has come to the rescue again, and delivered a nice comforting narrative that smooths over all the plot holes and leaves he pieces exactly where they were for next week's episode.
One day, eh.
|>>|| No. 8428
There was a Dogecoin ad on during the Superbowl.
|>>|| No. 8429
Was there really or is it just something people were spreading rumours about?
|>>|| No. 8430
This whole episode will have ruined thousands of lives and deluded thousands more they've somehow stuck it to the baddies.
|>>|| No. 8431
Not seen it yet.
Wish that Weeknd twat would stop already, I don't understand how he has a career. Ruined a Lana Del Ray album.
|>>|| No. 8435
Nothing on the Superbowl (obviously) but I did enjoy my dose of American commercialism. You really can't watch the Superbowl without the ads and a pizza.
Ruined her lust for life.
|>>|| No. 8437
It annoyed me that he was in Uncut Gems. I wish I could have seen that film as a teenager 25 years into the future instead of early last year, because no teenager is going to know The Weekend is a real person a quarter-of-a-century from now.
|>>|| No. 8438
I'd like to take my doge out of binance and put them on a memory stick somewhere so I'm not tempted to fiddle with them. What's the best way to go about this?
|>>|| No. 8439
By all means bet on a crypto, but Dogecoin ain't it. Even this unsustainable meme rally is weak compared to the gains of newer projects with some semblance of utility.
|>>|| No. 8440
I could bet on multiple crypto if someone would recommend some trustworthy wallets.
|>>|| No. 8472
Looking at the daily charts for multiple coins, a lot of them seem to follow the same patterns. Not perfectly but all the big dips and peaks are there. Doesn't this make them effectively the same investment?
|>>|| No. 8473
Not exactly. But yes often there's a sudden general change in crypto-sentiment and everything raises and falls that day - but not in absolute lockstep. I made some money on Link the other day after BTC and ETH were jumping up, and I felt Link would follow, and sure enough it did. (Although I got out too early).
|>>|| No. 8474
>(Although I got out too early)
No such thing unless you're mystic meg. Profit is profit.
|>>|| No. 8475
Fuck it. I'm just going to cash out my remaining doge. I'm not going to do my mental health much good if I get hooked on gambling like this.
|>>|| No. 8495
'Roaring Kitty' GameStop investor hit with lawsuit
A man who became a key player in frenzied trading of GameStop shares last month has been hit with a class action lawsuit.
Keith Gill, known as 'Roaring Kitty' on YouTube, allegedly duped retail investors into buying inflated stocks while hiding his sophisticated financial background.
|>>|| No. 8496
Anyone with even half a toe in that subreddit over the last year knows this is entirely frivolous, but it'll likely be a springboard for either retail investment restrictions or at the very least something will happen to WSB. It'll be interesting to see where this all goes, especially with the IBKR CEO saying today that GME would have skyrocketed if it wasn't for the "intervention" of restricting volume on big platforms.
Curious to know what the lads who actually know what they're doing think of all this.
|>>|| No. 8535
GME shooting up again, was up 100% before close.
Why on earth is this happening? Something with SEC?
|>>|| No. 8536
Could be all the $300+ shorts closing out, could be something more coordinated. Impossible to tell.
I know it makes no sense to be glad I don't own any GME, because I'd surely be making money, but fucking hell, what a headache.
|>>|| No. 8537
Rudgewick crashed about an hour before close. Coincidence? Maybe, I dunno, it's all fucking nonsense.
|>>|| No. 8538
It reaks very much of "rules for thee not for me". No one takes such a heavy shorting position unless they are manipulating the market, which hurts real investors. If anything the WSB action is much more reasonable the only people hurt by this were people who were short selling (i.e manipulating the market), in a honest world wsb would be congratulated on their ingenuity and the ethics of short selling would be brought into question.
|>>|| No. 8539
>No one takes such a heavy shorting position unless they are manipulating the market
Or they genuinely believe that a company has a future value of zero, which wasn't an unreasonable position with respect to Gamestop.
>the only people hurt by this were people who were short selling
The hedge funds have mostly recouped their losses; a lot of WSB latecomers have lost their life savings.
|>>|| No. 8540
>Or they genuinely believe that a company has a future value of zero
No lad the short was 140% of float, that is market manipulation plain and simple.
>The hedge funds have mostly recouped their losses; a lot of WSB latecomers have lost their life savings.
That is because, and only because illegal suspending of trading.
|>>|| No. 8541
>No lad the short was 140% of float, that is market manipulation plain and simple.
Market manipulation has a very specific definition. "Too many people shorting a stock" does not meet that definition.
>That is because, and only because illegal suspending of trading.
What law did Robinhood break? Do you believe that GME would have stayed at a high long-term valuation?
|>>|| No. 8542
When you get to 140% short, you're into blatantly naked territory. At that point, you're no longer merely betting on the price doing down, you're actively trying to drive it down. That's clearly manipulation at least in everyday language, if not legal terms.
|>>|| No. 8545
Who were Robinhood engaged in a trust or conspiracy with? What was the restraint of trade? What was being monopolised? (hint: the answer is not Citadel, no matter what you saw on Reddit)
Robinhood decided to restrict sell orders on highly volatile stocks because they didn't have enough capital on hand to cover their NSCC deposit requirements. What they did was specifically what they were required to do under Dodd-Frank. If complying with SEC regulations is illegal, then we're in some Kafkaesque scenario where it's literally impossible for a retail brokerage to not break the law.
|>>|| No. 8546
I think this is the thing that gets lost on people. With the irregular activity, Robinhood's clearing broker upped their capital requirement from something like 2% of volume to 100%, meaning they had to front up the entire purchase price of any orders their customers placed before settlement, and deposit enough cash to cover the entire position.
|>>|| No. 8547
>What was the restraint of trade?
>decided to restrict sell orders
It is a mystery you have evidently answered.
> Because they didn't have enough capital on hand to cover their NSCC deposit requirements
That is up for debate. Apparently US congress consider it worthy of enquiry but you consider the whole thing solved already.
|>>|| No. 8548
>It is a mystery you have evidently answered.
That's not a restraint of trade; Robinhood's decision didn't prevent their customers from placing buy orders through any number of other brokerages. "Restraint of trade" has a specific legal meaning.
>US congress consider it worthy of enquiry
Congressional investigations have been little more than political showboating for many years.
|>>|| No. 8549
If Robinhood were unable to facilitate trades because it was economically unviable for them to do so, they would have said that. Instead they press released some bullshit about protecting their users.
|>>|| No. 8560
>By all means bet on a crypto ... with some semblance of utility.
I've made a little cheat-sheet of all the ones that don't seem to exist purely for the sake of existing.
I've included my general impressions of the community as seen on reddit as about ten days ago I told someone to watch ADA, purely on the basis of their community appearing to mostly be sensible people. Not really understanding the tech, the behaviour and attitudes of the people who do seem like the next best indicator.
|>>|| No. 8576
Someone I work with keeps pushing HBAR Hedera, saying its worth about $0.14 so I should put in £20 because it's about to pop.
|>>|| No. 8577
It's about 14p rather than 14c but it has some buzz for no reason I can see.
|>>|| No. 8578
He was going on about the likes of Google being involved, blockchain technology and decentralisation but I wasn't really paying attention.
|>>|| No. 8581
Not financial advice:
ADA, VET, LINK (maybe), IOTA, XLM, ALGO, HBAR, MATIC, ZIL (maybe) & FANTOM (maybe). Sir not-included-in-this-list: Various ETH tokens because it's going to be PoW for the next five years which is unETHical. PoS only.
|>>|| No. 8583
Given that they're backed by Amazon, I would have thought they were one of the better bets in that space.
|>>|| No. 8584
Deliveroo are the one company that doesn't deliver to my postcode yet, which either suggests they can't handle the infrastructure or that their business model is so dialled in that they don't need to cater to everyone. It's probably the latter.
|>>|| No. 8585
>triggered by changes in UK law that allow the owner to overrule shareholder votes
This was not a good idea. The Deliveroo IPO is basically allowing the founder to keep whatever stake he likes but with 20x the power that stake would otherwise get him. We've already seen elsewhere the problems that arise when the direction of a company can basically be dictated by one person, and they're not small problems by any means. UK companies listing in the US because they can pull this off doesn't suggest a problem with the rules in the UK, but rather a problem with the sort of people running those companies. It seems a little cakey to basically take all the cash that comes from a sale but not give up the power that attaches to the ownership you no longer have.
|>>|| No. 8586
Is that the same Amazon that exited the restaurant delivery business in both the US and UK after failing to make it work?
|>>|| No. 8587
Yes, it is. Also, in case you haven't noticed, they're the largest and most valuable ecommerce and delivery firm in the universe; delivering a few takeaways is well within their capabilities.
|>>|| No. 8588
Not getting a straight answer here lads. I thought Deliveroo was worth a punt because the price always rises after an IPO, and they are continuing to do steady business during the pandemic. So what's the problem?
|>>|| No. 8589
>the price always rises after an IPO
Not if its overpriced and if you're looking to hold then you want to think about the general business climate. Takeaway apps across the board will see a fall once restaurants open up anyway.
|>>|| No. 8590
My friend who works in a hospital reckons we should expect another two waves before it settles down into permanent endemic status. What that'll do to restaurants I don't know, take this second-hand anecdotal evidence for what it's worth.
|>>|| No. 8591
>the price always rises after an IPO
The executives of lastminute.com and Pets.com will be ecstatic to hear that.
|>>|| No. 8594
I'm not looking to hold, I'm just experimenting. My understanding is that generally (but not always, as >>8591 points out) the price will rise immediately following an IPO, which seems like a good opportunity to make a quick buck. And if I don't, I'm not exactly betting my house on it, they are offering values of £250 at the lowest. Yes the restaurants will open up, so the plan is to get out before they can on a large scale.
|>>|| No. 8595
So: Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos have a lot of wealth. They think the best use of it is to spend it on spaceships. This is "noble" or something. What's the best investment to get some of that drip down?
|>>|| No. 8597
Obviously you invest in space companies. The UK has a leading small-satellite and sensor/comms industry if you want local and something benefitting from reduced launch costs. I suspect odds are good that you'll see undervalued space companies in general considering the pace of the global industry.
If you don't fancy the risk then you still have huge companies like Airbus.
|>>|| No. 8599
Why do we spend billions on making satellites if we could just send iPhones up there?
|>>|| No. 8601
Serious answer: because cosmic radiation would destroy the electronics. To survive for any length of time outside the atmosphere, satellites need specialised integrated circuits that can withstand high-energy radiation. Some small experimental low earth orbit satellites have used smartphones for their control electronics, but they were only designed to have a working lifespan of a couple of weeks.
Also consumer-grade navigation chips are required by law to shut down if they exceed a velocity of 600m/s or an altitude of 16000m to prevent them from being used in ballistic missiles.
|>>|| No. 8602
> ballistic missiles.
Surely a crude ballistic missile does't need much in the way of electronics.
|>>|| No. 8603
depends if you want it to land somewhere in particular. Ballistic doesn't rule out guidance.
|>>|| No. 8604
Note, though, that you can homebrew GPS solutions out of available silicon and open source software (or do it from scratch if you're exceptionally keen). It'll not be as small or low power as a commercial solution, but if you'rebuilding ICBMs you can probably afford an extra 20 grams to avoid the crippled features.
|>>|| No. 8605
Fuck me even the circuitry is vulnerable. I don't see how we're ever going to get to the point of colonising the galaxy at this rate.
|>>|| No. 8606
Honestly if Steve ISIS can knock up a functional ICBM in his shed with fertiliser, coke bottles and a TomTom I'd say he deserves to nuke us.
|>>|| No. 8607
There are a whole bunch of other restrictions that make life difficult for Kim Jong Un and his ilk. High-G accelerometers, anything rad-hardened, anything with an extreme temperature rating and a whole bunch of other components are subject to export controls. Something as seemingly mundane as a sheet of nickel alloy can be subject to export controls because of the potential for military use. The US and EU satellite industries are quite strongly segregated because of the complexity and risk involved in exports; Brexit has very much left Britain in no-man's land.
Radiation shielding is one of the hard problems of manned space flight. We're pretty good at protecting electronics, but protecting people is very much an unsolved problem.
|>>|| No. 8611
I got a chuckle at the specialist from the Royal Aeronautical Society looking at the LE Size and Health survey and concluding things haven't changed over the past couple years. Considering the surveys are done on 2-year stints with the last being published in 2018 something might be amiss here.
>The US and EU satellite industries are quite strongly segregated because of the complexity and risk involved in exports; Brexit has very much left Britain in no-man's land.
This is a backwards way of looking at it because the growth markets aren't in Europe or North America and export controls are set at MS level in the EU. I'm sure Japan will be intrigued to hear all this at any rate.
What you mean going by your focus is that MTCR members have agreed to a level of export control. NATO is the most obvious institution that circumvents controls between members but so does ESA. Underlining this is that Deliveroo doesn't own satellites but instead uses services and the same runs up into universities buying cube sats manufactured in the UK and launched elsewhere (although even elsewhere is starting to look like the Scottish highlands).
|>>|| No. 8612
We do pretty well on building the satellites, many of them are built in Guildford, but we'll never be a viable launch site.
|>>|| No. 8613
>I'm sure Japan will be intrigued to hear all this at any rate.
Japan can make semiconductors and precision machine tools. They're self-reliant and inward-looking to a fault. Britain doesn't have anywhere near the high-tech manufacturing capacity to stand alone in the way that Japan does. We need to do a huge amount of trade with the EU to keep the wheels turning and Brexit has dumped a lot of paperwork on our desks that can inadvertently turn us into international arms smugglers if we cock it up.
>What you mean going by your focus is that MTCR members have agreed to a level of export control.
Nope. MTCR is quite narrow and rarely presents practical problems, but Wassenaar and ITAR/EAR are a constant pain in the arse. Military items are regulated at MS level, but dual-use items are covered at an EU level by 428/2009.
When we were in the EU, we could trade dual-use items freely within the bloc; now that we're outside, every movement across the channel counts as an export or re-export. A lot of businesses only tangentially related to aerospace or defence have had to apply for OGELs for the first time and we're still not sure what the long-term position is with respect to GEAs.
The British aerospace industry is by no means doomed, but we became much less competitive and much less attractive to investors on the first of January.
|>>|| No. 8614
>Trade union calls for Deliveroo UK riders strike to highlight IPO risks
>A trade union called for Deliveroo’s UK riders to strike when the meal delivery service floats on the stock market next month, saying on Sunday the action would highlight dissatisfaction with the company’s business model and approach to workers’ rights. Deliveroo, whose turquoise-uniformed couriers delivering chicken kormas and American hot pizzas are a common sight in many British suburbs, is set for Britain’s biggest stock market debut in nearly a decade after setting a share price range that values it at up to $12 billion.
>But some investment firms have said they will not participate in the initial public offering (IPO). Insurer Aviva for instance highlighted a lack of rights for riders as an investment risk as the company might be forced to change its business model. Deliveroo said investor demand had continued to build since its roadshow began on Monday, and said the views of the union which announced the strike, the Independent Workers’ Union of Great Britain (IWGB), did not represent the vast majority of riders.
>The IWGB previously lost a legal challenge to Deliveroo in 2018. The case sought to secure rights such as the UK minimum wage for riders, but the court ruled riders were self-employed. “Investing in Deliveroo means associating yourself with the exploitative and unstable business model,” IWGB President Alex Marshall said in a statement, adding the strike was planned for April 7, to coincide with the IPO.
>The rights of people who work in the so-called “gig economy” have been an increasing focus in Britain. Ride-hailing app Uber gave its workers more entitlements earlier this month after losing a Supreme Court case. Deliveroo said job satisfaction levels among its 50,000 self-employed riders in Britain was at an all-time high, and that the flexibility they had was a big attraction. “Thousands apply to work with us every week, reflecting the strong demand for our on-demand model,” a company spokeswoman said.
I'm glad I remembered Benjamin Graham's advice against IPOs before sinking a grand into this.
>we'll never be a viable launch site
I don't know about this. It seems like we're doing really well in the engine market at the moment and we're in a much better position to our European rivals e.g. Germany exploring sea platform launch.
At the very least there should be a small-launch market given the ongoing Ariane debacle.
|>>|| No. 8615
The entire stock market is an elaborate scam designed to make me lose money.
|>>|| No. 8616
The shares I had in Aalberts Industries have gone up by almost 20% since I decided to sell them and double down on my losses in BlackBerry. I do not know what I am doing.
|>>|| No. 8618
I imagine a fair chunk of the downward pressure was related to the dual listing. Big investors like institutions don't want to take a significant stake in a company if the founders can basically overrule them with a much smaller stake.
|>>|| No. 8619
Many institutions have made a noise about Deliveroo's working practices, but behind that they've said they don't really have a sustainable long-term business model.
There's no real barrier to entry, Just Eat are investing heavily to boost their own restaurant offering rather than focusing on takeaways and started moving away from the gig economy to employed, they made a loss of £224million last year and that's on the back of exploitative business practices and it's not like they really have any assets either.
|>>|| No. 8620
>they made a loss of £224million last year
How? What overheads do they have? A website?
|>>|| No. 8621
It's pretty par for the course. Uber has literally never made a penny in its entire history. They can say that they can't afford to do business if they have to treat their workers properly, but they already can't afford to do business.
|>>|| No. 8622
That and the staff that build and maintain it which are being paid at a market premium of about 30-40%.
I'm getting tired of this "we can't afford to provide benefits to drivers" when they can easily afford to provide top-of-market salaries and equity to some project managers.
|>>|| No. 8623
They're burning money trying to expand the business, particularly overseas. I'm sure I read somewhere that they haven't been able to make any real headway outside of London.
|>>|| No. 8654
I made the mistake of listening to you lot. That's where I end up going wrong so I don't know why I did it. I saw someone elsewhere post "helium's going up" and it is so I think I'll try this tactic out for a bit. Next stock I'll take a punt on after seeing some random bollocks online is Aston Martin.
|>>|| No. 8656
I work with someone who invested loads in Aston Martin, and the share price has plummeted since he did that. So maybe, perhaps, this is the time to buy low? Put your life savings on it and tell me what happens.
|>>|| No. 8658
Papa Stroll is trying to revive their fortunes, which is part of the reason he's rebranded his F1 team.
Get in before it's overinflated.
|>>|| No. 8659
Why would you invest in Aston Martin just as their ugliest cars are being released? That Vantage looks like some shite out of Cyberpunk 2077.
|>>|| No. 8660
The market wants modern future looking cars.
People are paying for the cybertruck ffs.
|>>|| No. 8661
Well if that's true why is Aston Martin's stock price so far down the shitter otherlad's mate is about to paint his ceiling brain matter carmine, and Elon Musk is a fulltime wacky waving inflatable flailing arm man who's only job is to trick people into thinking fucking Tesla and it's "self-driving" murder-suicide-mobiles matter?
|>>|| No. 8662
Because Aston doesn't have an Elon.
There'll always be rich idiots, they'll be out in full force post-pandemic. Note that I'm not telling you to buy any shares, please god don't listen to me either way. I'll let you know when I float my own company and we can all make that financial mistake together.
|>>|| No. 8663
I know all this. I was answering your point about "future looking cars".
|>>|| No. 8670
Do you really trust those apps? If one day they decide they've had enough for whatever reason, they can just shut down and all "your" stocks will be gone.
|>>|| No. 8672
They're no less regulated than H&L or whichever other brick and mortar institution you have decided is less likely to fold.
As someone who had all their money in both the Northern Rock and Halifax around 2008, I find the idea that established banks or financial services are more reliable very amusing.
|>>|| No. 8673
I'm not going to lose my money if I get pick-pocketed or fall over funny.
|>>|| No. 8675
Well are share holdings or cash balances held in trading accounts covered by the government's £85k guarantee doobry?
|>>|| No. 8678
I doubt the shares are actually stored on the phone itself. I have Coinbase for cryptocurrency (don't use it; it's shit) and when I got a new phone, I just downloaded the app again and logged in and my ~£400 was still there. Honestly, I don't know what all these people who lose a wallet of 50,000 Bitcoins are angry about.
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