You have reached the age where you complain about kids these days, with their horrible music and strange slang. Congratulations.

I experienced some of these "roadmen" during the Tottenham riots. It'd be easy to to dismiss them as wastes of skin, but having one some volunteer bike repair training it's a little more complicated. The average spread of people in that format, to be honest. Just here to mark the hours of community service, genuinly excited to learn something new, all the inbetween.

What's changed, I think, is how organised and lucrative gangs are. And how ruthless. Give a teenage "roadman" the honest opportunity to learn and be more an now they don't care because, short term at least, they genuinly do have better opportunities being the 'ard man.

>>456227
OLD MAN SHOUTS AT SKY

_{Couldn't agree with you more.}

>>456228

Yeah, I think that's the main thing about the chavs back in my/our day. They were yobs, they were annoying, they would cause trouble and start fights and whatnot. But that's all they were, just sort of the very lowest level petty miscreant, who spent most of their time getting pissed up on the swings, and at the very worst selling a bit of hash out their Corsa.

These roadmen are a different thing, they seem to be organised and they seem to rather glorify a type of violence that wasn't as common with the old school chavs, townies and NEDs.

I find these sorts of people scary, especially the 12-16 year olds. At that age, kids don't think about consequences so much, and they just want to show off, so they hurl abuse at passers-by. I've not been insulted by any for years now, maybe because I'm big and look mental, but I still fear them insulting me because how do I react? Do I shout back and then get ganked by 10 kids with penknives?

Living south of the river they don't bother me. Especially since I started wearing a cap and long coat like Kendall Roy when he's trying not to stand out. People who look like they'd give anyone shit now actively move out my way and apologise. The missus says I look like a bank robber.

>>456227
Let's be real, there's no way drill is a good influence on the yoof, the clue is in the name. It's glamourising real life violence in a way nothing else I can think of does.

>>456235

I instinctively want to lean on the good old "satanic panic" argument here, and draw a comparison with all the horrible death metal and what have you where the lyrics are expressly and exclusively about murder and gore and such. But no, when it comes to drill, I think it is different. You can't defend it on the grounds that depiction =/= endorsement like most other forms of BRILLIANT, shocking media, because they straight up ARE endorsing it, and that's often the entire point.

That's not that I think it should be banned or anything. There's shit like NSBM out there that with a totally straight face endorses fascism, but I don't think it seriously influences anyone into fascist views that wasn't already heading that way; and most of the rest of it's audience are middle class white lads who wouldn't even know it existed if not for the internet. I think the same is probably true to a large extent for drill, but it's still much more on the nose than any other example I can think of, to the point the artists conceal their identity so that their songs don't get them arrested.

>>456238

That's so true, the kids today are out of control. They're disguising their faces with frightening clown make-up, going to online chatrooms under code names and breaking the law; burning down churches and putting horrible things on their album covers like photos of people who committed shotgun suicides.

>>456242

You know they're actually killing each other, right?

>>456243

So were the Romans but I don't see you up in arms about Qui habitat in adiutorio altissimi.

>>456244

Nobody knows what that is you fucking nerd. If the kids were dressing up as legionaries and running each other through with spathas I might have a different opinion.

>>456242

Perhaps the tone is hard to read in text but you should realise, my argument comes from the position of being a lifelong greasy longhair who was in a band for many years with a lot of songs about human sacrifice, religious genocide, and the concept of death/killing in general. If you hung around the British metal scene in the late 00s you might even have heard my stuff.

The comparison I'm making is that there's a lot of black metal bands that are actual legitimate nazis, and lots of black metal musicians who have done time for serious crimes. But you still can't say black metal is inherently about any of those things, and the fanbase is largely still just pasty wimps who would never carry out the same sorts of things themselves even if they were Varg Vikernes' biggest fan.

I would like to think it's the same situation, but with drill I'm not so sure. The line is most definitely much blurrier. Even comparing it to the west coast gangster rap of the 80s, drill is seemingly much more serious about it all, it's not just for bravado.

Does make it pretty brutal though I'll give it that. Can't say they're posers can you.

>>456246
They should listen to some nice, safe, non-violence encouraging music. Classic stuff, like 2Pac and Biggie Smalls. Just look at the violence depicted in these lyrics:

I think it's about pretty much whatever and people like to focus on the scary stuff because that's what people do so that's what it looks like to outsiders.

>>456247

> think it's about pretty much whatever and people like to focus on the scary stuff

No, lad. I listen to drill, it's about drilling, it wouldn't be drill otherwise. I also listen to 90s hip hop. It's not the same. Comparing the two makes me think you haven't listened to much drill.

>>456247

Have you actually listened to much of it, then, or are you just being a contrarian out of a gut feeling that you're right?

Because like I said, I would very much like to agree with you, but it's different. Like when they release a single containing death threats naming specific individuals, and then two weeks later the people threatened turn up dead. That's not uncommon in the drill scene. It's just largely going unnoticed because they're yootz from da endz, innit. Tend to be of a certain background, don't they? So the authorities don't care, and at the same time well meaning liberals are blinded by good intentions.

Many of the artists in the drill scene appear to be legitimate organised criminals who just happen to make music, not merely musicians who want to look like hardmen.

>>456249
>Many of the artists in the drill scene appear to be legitimate organised criminals who just happen to make music, not merely musicians who want to look like hardmen.
You mean like 2Pac and Biggie Smalls. Violent and dangerous people are also going to make music sometimes, if it's popular, it'll pass eventually, because everything does and nothing as quickly as in youth culture. The music isn't the problem, the conditions leading to it are. In ten years time, someone reference the most violent dril track that came up on the first page of search results and all they'll get in response is "Nobody knows what that is you fucking nerd". And that will be as it should.

>>456249
In a nutshell, Drill is not the problem itself. It's just rap with basic chords. The trouble is the normalisation of gang culture, of "beef" culture, whatever you want to call it. We need to return to the British Model when it comes to drugs, kneecap the gangs and their income. Once they have to resort to antisocial things like kidnapping and mugging public opinion will turn.

>>456250

That's why I compared it to 80s ganster rap in the first place though. That genre grew out of its unsavoury roots, and many of it's most well known performers only ever adopted the aesthetics. Whereas drill has been going the best part of a decade and it's still just about teenagers shanking each other in chicken shops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMZi25Pq3T8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n461ZCjUVc

Just for comparison. Bear in mind the people named in the zone 2 song were real and did die.

>>456253

Biggie Smalls was shot in 1997, Tupac the year before that, both around a decade after gangsta rap emerged. I'm fairly sure Bloods and Crips are still doing drive-bys in Arbys or whatever 25 years on.

Regardless, it's a symptom. None of the bad stuff is going to go away just because you censor the music or whatever it is you're suggesting should be done about it.

>>456253
There are occasional bubbles of outrage about it, but Drill has just no excuse. Gangsta rap, sure. Grime had soul. Drill any toddler could write and has as much artistic value as an 80s white dog poo.

>>456255

You're only furthering my point. The NWA lot were gentrified and went mainstream very quickly. By the point anybody white had heard of them they were rapping about stuff that had happened in the past, a life they had mostly left behind, they were raising awareness in broader culture of the strife inherent to urban life in LA or wherever (but retaining an anti-authority position, because they were as the kids might say today, "based").

UK drill is basically the opposite of that, revelling in it. They don't want a record deal and to rise above it and eventually give back to those communities. They want to brag about stabbing people, and that's where it starts and ends. (Obligitory "not all of them but many such cases" disclaimer here.)

>>456256

>None of the bad stuff is going to go away just because you censor the music or whatever it is you're suggesting should be done about it.

I'm explicitly NOT suggesting that. Here:

>That's not that I think it should be banned or anything.

I'm not even suggesting anything be "done" about it, just musing on media and the influence it does or doesn't have on society.

I'm very much of the art imitates life, not the other way around, camp. That being the case, the sincerity to the violence of drill is surely indicative something is wrong.

>>456255

Can't make out anything they're saying but they're all wearing distinctive clothes with their physique/stature visible from multiple angles. The one with the Mickey Mouse hair has enough of his face visible for a computer to ID him, wouldn't be hard to match known associates especially if they're giving location/contextual clues in the film and lyrics. Bragging about stabbing people like that is a bit daft.

>>456259

That's fair enough.

>>456255
Straight Outta Compton is a great tune, but I suggest this one is their finest work:

>>456260

That's trizzac. Their names are in the title of the video. rudgwicksteamshow.co.uk says he's in jail now.

>Bragging about stabbing people like that is a bit daft.

Yes.

>>456263

I live in a sleepy town full of pensioners on the south coast, thankfully I don't encounter such people.

Incidentally, the chav seems to have completely died off here, I don't see any. When I was a child and in my teens it seemed like every street corner had scary, rough youngsters in tracksuits, but now I can't remember the last time I saw them.

I'm not sure how much of that is down to me being an adult now.

To me a chav was always just a subculture, but one that wasn't as heavily anchored to anything quite as lasting or solid as say, the emos or goths. Yes, they had music, and they had fashion, but I think because of the type of people it attracted, there wasn't enough drive or creativity to grow or adapt. By the very nature of its affected exclusionism, someone trying a new variant of the uniform they wore would only have been marginalised.

I'm not saying the goth kids were any better, really, just that their personalites weren't based around hunting the weak, like charvs were. So people could try new things within the genre and get away with it. Plus, there was simply just more money in the music they centered around. And, I suppose, goth, metal head, emo, they had overlapping interests that meant there was a less rigid idea of how to fit into the culture.

It seems to me that a lot of the chavs I remember from when I was a teenlad have since evolved into "Deanos". The lads who used to hang around Tesco car park have grown up, got jobs in somewhere like Sports Direct or Carphone Warehouse, swapped their trackies for skin-tight polo shirts and carrot jeans and bought themselves a new-build house with the missus who they take on yearly pilgrimages to Tenerife or Lanzarote. That's upward social mobility for you, I suppose.

>>456400
I have only ever seen Deanos mentioned on 4chan; I don't think they're a cultural reference anywhere else. They're also, almost by definition, one step above chavs, no matter what either of them are.

>>456400

I don't imagine many people are buying new builds on Carphone Warehouse wages in today's market, lad. Either way nah, those lads are just the chavvier end of "normie", they were never part of the same group.

The proper chav chavs I grew up with have probably ended up somewhere between homeless, smackheads, or functional alcoholics on the bennies with four kids to a girl in her early 20s.

The more sensible ones might have ended up as a mechanic or brickie or something like that and be doing alright for themselves. But I think with those ones, you don't even recognise them as a chav. Part of the chav identity was inherently tied up in being a mischievous youth; if they're in their mid 30s and they're not actively being a yobbo outside the Tesco Express on a night, they no longer really register as one. They're just the average bloke.

>>456406

>I don't imagine many people are buying new builds on Carphone Warehouse wages in today's market, lad.

Shared ownership.

>>456407

Even that's a push now for most people, unless they're brazen enough to be selling shared ownerships with an equity of like 25% or something daft nowadays.

>>456411

A lot of housing associations do offer 25% shares. A 50% share on a new build is very much affordable in much of the north if Deano's missus is working at least part time.

Help to Buy has ended, but most of the big housebuilders are offering similar schemes to facilitate mortgages on a 5% deposit. A new-build two-bed semi in somewhere like Wakey will set you back less than £240k. 5% of 50% of that is £6k; if you've got a LISA, you'll only need £4,800.

None of this is necessarily a good idea, but neither is "buying" a new Nissan Qashqai on PCP. A surprisingly large part of the British economy hinges on rinsing Deano and Gemma for everything they've got.

>>456413

What's even the point at that stage though. Might as well just rent.

>>456406
They're the plumbers who come round to replace your bathroom waste pipe and after cleaning up throw literal shit in your recycling bin.

>>456285
>Incidentally, the chav seems to have completely died off here, I don't see any. When I was a child and in my teens it seemed like every street corner had scary, rough youngsters in tracksuits, but now I can't remember the last time I saw them.
The Chavs started out on council estates buying cheap plastic shell suits and trackies because that's all their mums on bennies could afford, then over time as it developed into its own uniform and then fashion brands cottoned onto this and jacked up their prices, at the exact same time that online shopping came into play and old high-street staples got displaced by discount stores.

All the same kids who would have been chavs 20 years ago are all still there, but why would anyone want to wear an ugly old fashioned striped tracksuit and a buzzcut when they can afford to get a silly perm and a supreme jacket and camp outside the nike clearance store at 8am to get whatever oversized trainer is newest for the same price.

>>456404 >>456400
>I have only ever seen Deanos mentioned on 4chan; I don't think they're a cultural reference anywhere else. They're also, almost by definition, one step above chavs, no matter what either of them are.
Again the Deano things all comes down to economics, A Deano is a Chav with a mortgage, a car on credit, and the benefit of cheap goods thanks to massively increased output from the far east compared to when they were kids.

And the ASBO era of Chavism, that was nothing special about chavs, kids have always been yobs and caused trouble for generations, what has changed in the past 10-20 years to stop that being a thing is the internet and phones and games. It's not that the streets are safe and quiet because chavs have gone, the streets are safe and quiet because kids have gone altogether.

Back to the topic of drill music and roadmen, attacking the music is dumb and counter productive.

The more time these people spend making music, the less time they are out committing crimes. If they're actually successful making a career out of the music they've got even less motivation to be involved in gangs and they can be a role model to younger people.
Hate and attack the content of drill music all you want, encouraging people to be more involved in creating music and art is a positive all round.
However our government is going the way of Americans and stripping money from schools and youth services and putting it into police which does nothing but hurt young peoples prospects and make crime and gangs seem like the only option.

>>456436
It's barely even music, though. There's a high horse firmly mixq in here, but the bars these guys are spitting? Legit. The music they use? My casio could do better than that repwtitive shit. I could slip on my 05 Pro and do better.

>>456437

Sell some beats then.

>>456434
I can't see 'bussin' without think about 'bussy' or 'boy pussy', a term used in gay/trap circles to mean especially good ass. God I feel like a freak typing this.

>>456439
I doubt anyone on this website didn't already know what bussy means.

>>456440

>ass
He's a wrong 'un. Furiously wanking as he types it out, no doubt.

>>456437
>The music they use? My casio could do better than that repwtitive shit. I could slip on my 05 Pro and do better.

Have you had the misfortune to have to listen to radio one or capitol or kiss recently?
Drill music is to old school rap and hip hop, what doja cat and harry styles are to the spice girls and duran duran. Modern chart music is completely dominated by simple repetitive beats and simple or entirely non-existent melodies. Drill is just following the same trends as everything else in this respect, and the only way things are ever going to go in a new direction depends on kids becoming interested in music and learning theory and being inspired to create.

I dont really know any names because I dont follow this music at all, but I have seen clips of people who make that type of music showing that they can really sing well, they just dont record any songs with real singing because it doesn't sell because the majority of the public has become so conditioned to monotonous repetitive music.

I disagree. I don't think I've said yet that my way of identifying the authenticity of these drill musicians is from their musical talent. If someone's music is actually good, they probably aren't wastrel psychopaths. 67 and Giggs, whose "Let's Lurk" took off when its beat sampled in the parody hit Man's Not Hot, are clearly in it for the music, same as Dave or JME. They're all likely to be both rappers and criminals, but they are rappers first and foremost. Whenever one of these murderers turns out to also be a drill rapper, he was always, invariably, a shit drill rapper who couldn't rap. You can either focus on developing your music, or you can focus on skenging mandem n ting. It would appear that you cannot do both.

>>456442
I actually really like a lot of drill. You're right that a lot of it is better than airplay.

>>456443

>Whenever one of these murderers turns out to also be a drill rapper, he was always, invariably, a shit drill rapper who couldn't rap
Which rappers do you like?

>>456445
It's a weird one, because I don't actually like a lot of the acts I named there. Nevertheless, I can tell that other people would like them. They are professionals, even if they are painful to my ears. If you're just looking for UK rap recommendations, the song Black by Dave is the best one that springs to mind in recent years. If you're curious about my rap tastes in general, Americans like Tech N9ne and Jedi Mind Tricks are my go-to acts.

If you're trying to catch me out by getting me to name grime acts who are not drill music at all, then I assume you have succeeded.

>>456446
>If you're trying to catch me out by getting me to name grime acts who are not drill music at all, then I assume you have succeeded.

I wanted to catch you out by pointing out that they were involved in gang life. I can do 67 at least.

https://www.rudgwicksteamshow.co.uk.com/r/ukdrill/comments/p91e0u/a_brief_background_into_67674/

>>456438
I do. Makes pennies, really, but I won't say no to it.