A perfect happy dreamworld where every works together and shares anything wouldn't last long.
People would find their way into positions of authority, either through greed or perceived necessity, or they would just climb a ladder one step at a time without even noticing.
It's happened all over the world. At some point every civilisation was people living in huts, growing and sharing food, the next step is always someone in charge of a group of people. Just look at the dark ages; civilisation collapsed, the monetary system and trade goes with it. eventually feudalism appeared.
You can't say that this wouldn't happen again just because we're a bit more educated now. Being educated just means that the normal pattern will be quicker.
>The breakdown of Roman society was dramatic. The patchwork of petty rulers was incapable of supporting the depth of civic infrastructure required to maintain libraries, public baths, arenas, and major educational institutions. Any new building was on a far smaller scale than before. The social effects of the fracture of the Roman state were manifold. Cities and merchants lost the economic benefits of safe conditions for trade and manufacture, and intellectual development suffered from the loss of a unified cultural and educational milieu of far-ranging connections.
>As it became unsafe to travel or carry goods over any distance, there was a collapse in trade and manufacture for export. The major industries that depended on long-distance trade, such as large-scale pottery manufacture, vanished almost overnight in places like Britain. Whereas sites like Tintagel in Cornwall (the extreme southwest of modern day England) had managed to obtain supplies of Mediterranean luxury goods well into the 6th century, this connection was now lost.
>Between the 5th and 8th centuries, new peoples and powerful individuals filled the political void left by Roman centralized government. Germanic tribes established regional hegemonies within the former boundaries of the Empire, creating divided, decentralized kingdoms like those of the Ostrogoths in Italy, the Suevi in Gallaecia, the Visigoths in Hispania, the Franks and Burgundians in Gaul and western Germany, the Angles and the Saxons in Britain, and the Vandals in North Africa.
Did you travel back to the 18th century for your education? The collapse of Rome hardly = the collapse of civilization. Go be antiquated Eurocentric somewhere else.
It isn't total collapse, but the collapse that would follow >>1547 wouldn't be total either.
Whether civilisation collapsed or not, it was still mostly a return to subsistence farming, and in turn the subsistence farming was taken over by feudal systems.
The views are almost as antiquated as the period it speaks of.
Modern understanding shows that France, Britain and Ireland show industry and road building before Roman intervention. The mining and wealth was very likely one of the reasons for their invasions in the first place - people rarely spending money and armies trying to grab hold of nothing. There are archaelogical examples in Ireland of ancient roads that even go over bogs through clever large scale projects for those days. These people were far from mere subsistance farmers to be able to do these things.
Sadly much of old opinion on history was formed by Roman records and influence, which naturally was unfavourable towards everyone else and overlooked their accomplishments.
It's the consensus of modern historians that the 'dark age' never existed. There is much evidence of education and civilisation during the so-called 'dark age'.
Just one example of how it can seem right now. I'll not spoil the plot or certain key interesting elements. Luke, I am your father.
Blew me away. I never knew this until Hollywood told me itz true. Televitz commentators will no doubt cluck their tongues and confirm itz all an extremely trueness factoid we should all memorize. It's possible some of the recently deceased residents of Joplin, Missouri might disagree right about the time they cleared the convection layer at 1500+ feet aboveground.
Actually, the genes that govern anxiety about the future and a desire to remain in a prepared state were introduced 38,000 years ago through interbreeding with Neanderthal females. They had gotten it from an R&D process of over a half million years, which neanderthals survived handily and dominated the planet by expressing such genes at all times. These same genes are linked to pessimism about the future, vigilance and distrust of strangers. There were probably millions of Neanderthals who didn't express these qualities in their makeup. They all died and the Neos who had these qualities survived. Pretty much settles that argument.
I'm always amused at the dry liberals who pretend to coyly psychoanalyze preppers like it is some form of mental illness:
Do you know what bug-eyed crazy really is? It's living in the year 2011 and not seeing anything wrong. These people will be pulling a two hundred man diversity gangbang train in their arseholes and still shaking their heads in irritation. "What, this? Sure, I guess you could see the downside here. That's the nature of confirmation bias." They'll be pulling a twelve hour shift as a man whore in a Red Chinese comfort camp set up by the U.N. and going "I think our nation is going through some important changes, of course. That's what makes every day interesting. For me it's just another opportunity to learn about myself."
This is why I know to keep packing rice and beans for ITZ.
No rebuttal, simply howling and flinging poo like monkeys. You are incapable of anything more. Thinking and learning is beyond the manboons. Typical sapien reactions. This is why you will die off like grasshoppers come the winter.
I am the man who woke up and stayed awake, in a world of sleepers. If you're awake, keep watch with me. If you're asleep, see to it you don't come here or you'll see only nightmares.
>Modern power grids are vulnerable to solar storms.
>"A similar storm today might knock us for a loop," says Lika Guhathakurta, a solar physicist at NASA headquarters.
>In 1859 the worst-case scenario was a day or two without telegraph messages and a lot of puzzled sky watchers on tropical islands.
>In 2011 the situation would be more serious. An avalanche of blackouts carried across continents by long-distance power lines could last for weeks to months as engineers struggle to repair damaged transformers. Planes and ships couldn’t trust GPS units for navigation. Banking and financial networks might go offline, disrupting commerce in a way unique to the Information Age. According to a 2008 report from the National Academy of Sciences, a century-class solar storm could have the economic impact of 20 hurricane Katrinas.
Even if your "ITZ" doesn't come about because of solar it will come about another way. The oil is running out. Oil is the blood of the modern machine and we are using it up too fast and in wasteful ways. It doesn't seem all that serious, just to say it, but our "good usage" of fuel has been taken away. Hence the logic of the entire science & technology has been taken away. Logic has been stolen & sequestered from "good usage" Good usage of resources has been sequestered or stolen. No one else seems to notice. Planets are hollow not flat or solid. The physical logic says it has an inner surface with similar gravity & atmosphere. They feed outerworld technologies that control centrally.
We have this sequestration of technology occuring. We don't notice heat chucking because it has been normalized as a control and usage factor for maybe 95 or 100 years. Regular Gamers would likely not have the overall intelligence to assemble this. You might have some bright researcher in the physics of thermodynamics who could collude with gamers. but it could easily be an "innerworld" plan. Sorry, innerworld is not common knowledge so you have to figure it out yourself ; if your courageous.
Heat or energy recovery tech would allow for some small fraction of the total fuel used now to take the place of that "universally installed and enforce tech" There are these simple technologies that are simply banned, that would allow for the contiunance of electric power even if the major power infrrastructrue were torpedoed. We should know this shit, because, as things stand, we are slaves and victims of this enforced sequestraton of the science and associated technologies. Innerworlders.
If anyone wants me to try to explain the technical nature of heat capture i can do that (only because it's logical). It is like this "good usage" in "information" is like truth or the same as truth. I don't know why we use fuel the way we do other than for central control leading to disaster. People are intelligent enough to design or build the simplistic heat capture or energy recycling tech. It amount to not throwing away energy as heat.. That's all it is. Teenagers could figure it out.
Odd as i might sound, for something as large as "super heat chucking" to become part of our control structure, it has to be enforced, by some kind of "sequestered methodology" of legal and intimidation techniques. i don't believe we live in an "indepndent democracy" It's "uberkontrolled", but we don't know by whom exactly. Some leaders that are compulsive gamers and compulsivley deceptive with an addiction to power and money. Remember heat energy can escape but can't be destroyed.
i am either GD nutz, or i am correct. A simplist argument goes like this. Put a gallon of H2O on the stove. See how much energy it takes to warm it up or boil it. Transfer that logic or observation to 1K or 2K gallons of water that can be stored in and isulated water tank. It ends up being all the heat that would otherwise be cast off. Does anyone know why the comparable form of the steam engine disappeared for good one day? The other one is pneumatic storage of ready energy > power.
An insulated tankful of hot water could be dangerous, but could be kept very safe in a shed or a cement well. It is so tha;t it doesn't get a hole in it with hot water spilling out on a person or animal. One can save a great deal of heat energy in a water supply that is insulated. We don't use this because for some (yet to be known or explained reason we chuck heat from fossil fuel burning. This suggests uberkontroll by a central deceptive source or system. This is world wide control.
>Planets are hollow not flat or solid. The physical logic says it has an inner surface with similar gravity & atmosphere. They feed outerworld technologies that control centrally.
I'm not the original bunkerlad but I am the one who tried to steal a hill but gave up because it was raining, the tale of which I documented in that thread (I think).
Whoa, slight shift in subject and content, just subtle enough to avoid much reaction whilst seemingly in a similar vein to prior press releases:
>The NOAA predicted four “extreme” solar emissions which could threaten the planet this decade. Similarly, NASA warned that a peak in the sun's magnetic energy cycle and the number of sun spots or flares around 2013 could enable extremely high radiation levels.
Okay, what do we mean by "extremely high radiation levels?" I thought this was about XBox and Playstation being open to possible damages that might not fall under warranty.
It's about plausible deniability. While they work on their own shelters, they release just enough information that they can claim innocence after the fact. After all, we did warn you people, those of you lucky enough to have survived on your own. If they said nothing at all, there could be severe recriminations later on. This way, they can have their cake and eat it too. We tried to tell you but we're not to blame if your basic reading comprehension skills were lacking.
This is what the Norway Seed Vault was built for and it is the reason they have been moving government critical records keeping and storage underground for more than fifteen years.
What most people don't keep watch on is not simply looking at the story now, but what it was and where it will be going to. This narrative has gone from denial to pretty lights to buying an extended warranty for your Wii to large scale or worldwide disasters to potential civillisation collapsing. All slowly leaked out with little changes in the story. They knew the real deal long ago. These little updates aren't news to them. The last version you hear will be even worse, as the radiation blasts your DNA into a cancerous mess, if you're lucky enough not to be fried like an egg.
The riots should put a new light on this. Imagine what will be unleashed when these rioters are desperate for food and fuel or have an excuse if they are already stealing food and cleaning out fucking Poundland even now when there's no collapse or disaster whatsoever.
"Bursty" sudden connections of portals, unpredictable and unrealiable. No small, tame trickle for our sun and planet. ITZ can hit and turn this planet into a medieval backwater or a microwave.
Pole shifts and solar hell are on a knife edge and could easily be released at the same time. I've heard quite a bit about connections between the two. If the protective layer is hit and disrupted at the same time as the sun coughs out a big one...hope you listened when someone said PACK_YOUR_RICE.
Just when the people need them and the Sun is finally awakening from its slumber suddenly, NASA has two of its top experts on solar cycles either in prison or dead.
Small time for me. I have plans within plans. I've been preparing for years because I know what is coming. When the ship sinks you want to at least be near the lifeboats, even better if you long ago got ready to jump ship even before the ship was beached or smashed into an iceberg.
If just for a microsecond, you got the big picture the way I have it almost all the time, I can assure you that you would go to the garage, grab a shovel and head for your back garden. I guarantee it. If you ever realized just how dopey mankind is, you'd start work immediately on a shelter. Yet you always need to believe it some kind of pathology, when in fact it represents a form of lateral thinking you simply cannot do.
I'm in good company. You can't name a person in the 20th century with an IQ over 160 who didn't build a shelter. I dare you to name even one genius who didn't build one. If those people had known what the future was like, I can assure you they would have spent ten times as much money and a thousand times the effort to build'em bigger 'n better, too. Deep thinkers dig deep shelters. It's a fact. Heinlein, Dyson, Pauling ... the list would go around the moon.
I only mention the others because I know how important it is to primate brains like your own that there be a consensus to establish anything as legitimate. I didn't start work on my shelter for any of these reasons.
I expect a big sapien cull. It'll do the world a power of good. Others here are misguided and plan to save others. I will instead be locking the door to my shelter and laughing it up as the world burns.
I wouldn't expect mere sapiens to understand such things or have the ability to absorb the facts and truths around them. It's natural for them to always dismiss everything no matter how self evident it is.
If only you had been lucky enough to get a dose of neanderthal DNA in your family tree and held on to it. Maybe then you'd be able to understand. Sadly it seems you're genetically engineered not to understand. The sad remenents of a genocide and a weapon unleashed. Brains designed to chuck spears, rape and kill can only do so much, especially without that neo-hybrid magic.
I asked an electrical engineer about this a while back, he said it was mostly bollocks.
Small devices like computers and mobile telephones may stop working, but most important stuff is adequately protected to start with anyway, especially power stations and the like, which have to deal with the possibility of enormous power surges anyway.
The financial apocalypse stuff is garbage as well, all the appropriate bits of financial institutions are shielded, a lot back everything up in underground bunkers or hardened facilities. Vehicles are unlikely to be affected worse than losing the ignition system until a fuse is replaces, if that.
A lot of the fearmongering is based on a couple of nuclear tests from the middle of the cold war and some telegraph machines catching fire in the 19th century. Worst case scenario, lights go out for a few minutes.
If what a lot of stuff said in the thread was true, every time we had a power cut it'd look like a mad max convention outside.
No, the had to replace the a lot of fried cables in the Telegraph network in the US and in Europe. Anything not properly insulated will experience extreme power surges, but you're right; this is being blown entirely out of proportion.
A sparky or electrical engineer isn't going to be an expert on this, or any kind of normal engineer. It's not in his or her area of expertise, people had to specialise and research these things specifically to learn about it over decades. Unless he's specialising in this particular field and spending a long time reading up on these things then he's pulling answers out of his arse. Which he almost certainly is because his answers were clearly total crap and full of baseless assumptions without anything to back them up. None of this has anything to do with his normal work and field.
This is not being blown out of proportion. You only need to look at the chaos and breakdown with something like power outages, floods, earthquakes, fuel shortages, etc. and then imagine it on a global scale to see what kind of mess there would be.
There's good reasons that the cold war had millions and billions of research (on all sides of the tension) related to this and EMP weapons and threats are made. Do you think they spend millions on a bomb that does nothing but upsets your app store download a bit or upsets your TV schedule? They've used small scale devices in Iraq during the invasion to great effect - blew out their grid for years. The larger the scale, the harder it would be to sort out and the bigger the catastrophe and toll on the public. The more dependent on computer systems, the worse it would be. Good luck trying to manage all the supermarkets, delievery systems, etc. with no electronic communications or phone lines. Within a week the supermarket will be empty and people desperate for food.
The only reason you'd see this as not a problem is if you were too short sighted and lacked the ability to think of all the consequences and connections involved. This is the problem. People say "I don't see anything to worry about" but they are using no light or the dimmest of lights to see forward instead of putting on the floodlights needed for the task at hand.
I have to smile at the beliefs that the governments and all corporations and businesses will somehow be competent and prescient enough to prevent any problems from this. This kind of baseless blind faith is normally only seen in god botherers. You're ideal material for the Church with that nature. These people are barely able to run a lemonade stand without it bursting into flames and you're expecting miracles from them? Oh wow. All you need to do is be a little careful and look out for neighbours during the downtime rebuild. That's what I do and hopefully people will be okay in my immediate area.
There will be disasters, because people won't prepare for it and will be totally ignorant and then suffer for it or have faith that some magical sky hand (be it god or government) will somehow save them - and then suffer for it. The best off people will ironically be the people that are looked down upon now. The "backwards" Africans and Abbos and native tribes around the world will tick on like nothing has happened and wonder why they don't see so many of them nosey white folk around any more.
Some hardened military and government equipment and facilities will of course be completely uneffected and that is a good thing if the public can benefit from it, but that will be small comfort when all the things you rely on and that makes your life comfortable - all the civillian and consumer part of life - goes POOF! Most things are not hardened for EMP attacks (or the natural counterparts).
When it does happen it will be the equivalent of a super-scale natural disaster. Not world ending, but really bad for your normal life. Make people think economic upsets are no sweat at all.
>>1812 Wait, you're claiming that an electrical engineer isn't going to know anything about induced electrical currents and their effects on electrical components and systems?
You're a smug, condescending idiot and you don't know what you're talking about.
No, he's realistic and actually knows what he's talking about in this area. You, however, are a dribbling moron who has no idea what you are talking about and worse still thinks you know what everyone else does. You are everything to try to claim he is and worse.
If you want to know about a specialist area, you ask an expert. You do not ask someone who has had nothing to do with it in their lifetime. There are groups who have specialised in researching these things for years. They don't just bumble along and ask any old student. Their life experience and learning is rather more domestic and not nearly relevant enough.
I can imagine you as a student. The type in his second year who thinks he is an expert now and knows everything and so must be treated with "respect" for it. All too common an attitude. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing indeed. It can make small people like you believe they have only a little more to learn about the world.
Wait, are you saying that >>1812 is "realistic and knows what he's talking about in this area"? Aside from the very obvious samechap, absolutely not lad.
Also just a point of information: Somewhere in the seven-paragraph lunacy of >>1812 he mentions EMP weapons. The most effective EMP weapon is a nuclear device detonated at altitude, so EMP weapons themselves are no use.
We have a large solar storm heading our way today if anybody's interested. It's not going to be the apocalypse but there's a real possibility that mobile phones will stutter and radio signals will increase or decrease in range. The last time something like this happened, people could pick up random radio stations from different continents for a day or so.
There'll be an increased aurora if you're somewhere close by. The technical term is "coronal mass ejection". It's not rude.
>>1941 >If you want to know about a specialist area, you ask an expert.
Exactly. So if you want to know about the effects of induced electrical currents, you ask an electrical engineer, or someone who bases their knowledge on something more than a post from above top secret.
Or you could go along with someone like >>1812, who has nothing to add apart from a smug, screaming, frothing rant about the end of the world and how we're all going to die because we're not as clever as him, and fails to address a single point, instead choosing to claim that electricians and electrical engineers don't know anything about electricity.
>>1814 still stands
>You're a smug, condescending idiot and you don't know what you're talking about.
I agree that >>1812 is somewhat of a raving lunatic, but >>1809 is still stupid to dismiss it all as a load of bollocks. The worst case scenario is not that "the lights go out for a few minutes", it is a worldwide period of chronic blackouts and brownouts, potentially continuing for months.
Power stations themselves are reasonably well protected, but most of the infrastructure is still very old and suffering from poor investment, and even if it was all replaced now research in the area is still ongoing and there is no perfect protection against it. In a mild storm what will happen is that no physically damage would occur, but the useful capacity of the grid will be decreased significantly due to reactive power, which would only cause problems during certain times of the day when demand is high. In a moderate storm, what will happen is that the grid will have to be turned off for the duration, and then it can't simply be switched back on straight after. A severe storm may not happen, or may just happen once, but it could cause a lot of damage to the infrastructure which could be fixed in a matter of weeks, but with our government it would likely take months to get back to full capacity.
