No. 30830Anonymous 15th June 2021 Tuesday 11:36 pm30830My girlfriend is more like a roommate, what do I do?
We've been together years. When we first met, I feel like she misled me. She acted like she was really sex positive alongside our well matched personalities, and despite some obvious flags, like every idiot writing these things on the internet, I chose to ignore them.
We've become quite embedded as a couple, but she just isn't there sexually.She finds me hilarious, attractive (or so she says), and even orgasms every time we have sex. We cook together, go on holiday together, all the works. Sure we will have sex every week or so, but she'll never initiate it, she's quite frankly terrible at it and I never really feel she's all that interested. If we stopped having sex tomorrow I feel she wouldn't care. I have raised how mechanical and boring it feels and she blames it on me, despite being the only girl I've ever had this weird mechanic, motion grinding situation with.
I tried to talk to her about it a few months back, calmly, rationally and politely and she absolutely lost her shit. I just said I didn't feel sexually satisfied and found it frustrating. I mean really flipped her shit btw. Burst into tears just left in the middle of the night and walked around and didn't come back for hours. She said I was cold emotionally with her and didn't deserve rewards such as oral (another flag, hopefully she'd see sex as mutually enjoyable and not a reward system) because I wasn't as nice as I could be. She said in her old relationship she rarely had sex because she didn't find him attractive, but seems to think the absolute meagre offeirng we have is some sort of good thing.
Anyway a few months later, I've done my best for my part of the bargain but it's not picking up and it's fucking frustrating. It's like scheduling in a meeting at work. The other day, we were primed for it, 30 mins window, both hot and heavy and flirting and in various states of undress and then...nothing. She didn't think we had time, she didn't want me to get messy before meetings, the list goes on.
I quite frankly think I'm done, but I'm in London and I can't decide if it's worse being trapped in a sub par sexual relationship or going back to living with scruffy, man child like housemates. I really like my flat, I really like my current set up and if I could afford it alone I feel my choice would be an obvious one.
It worries me that in my 20s if I'm having these problems with her, it'd only get worse going on and I feel the only reason I won't pull the trigger is because I feel trapped by housing etc. I think I'm relatively desirable, women have and do hit on me and I've turned many down in this relationship because I care about her. She's beautiful, but it feels pointless because it's about as spontaneous and sexy as houseplants, it's not.
Has anybody any advice on what to do?
>Inb4 move out of London - for a myriad of reasons that isn't really an option for now.
It's a shit one but you have identified it all correctly yourself. I've been there and done that and, apart from the taking it really badly and storming off on you bit, everything in your post could have been written by me.
>didn't deserve rewards such as oral
That says it all honestly lad.
It's the sort of thing that won't change no matter how hard you work at it, because as you are coming to realise, it's not your fault, the problem lies with her attitude and her expectations. She either isn't able or isn't willing to view sex as a mutual, reciprocal pleasurable act and by this point, she has spent too long viewing it as transactional and she isn't going to suddenly wake up to the idea that satisfying one's partner for it's own sake might be a good thing to do.
If you aren't prepared to slip into what will become a sexless, platonic relationship, you have to leave. It's basically that simple. She won't come around no matter how successfully you argue your case, no matter how tactfully you put it. The only question is, like you say, if it's worth it. The decision is in your hands though, lad- Take ownership of your future, don't slip into a cycle of resentment where you blame her for something that would ultimately have been your choice.
The only thing that truly annoys me about this is it's yet another double standard for blokes. If this was in reverse she'd be pestering you like sex is some sort of human right. They say women are supposed to be the more sensual sex, and in touch with their sexualities, but in my experience a lot of women are just deeply repressed and uptight about sex, and they're the ones you end up in relationships like this with.
>if I could afford it alone I feel my choice would be an obvious one
>I feel the only reason I won't pull the trigger is because I feel trapped by housing etc.
It really does sound like your mind is made up, lad. As to whether or not it's better to be in an unsatisfying relationship, or to roll the dice on roommates; consider that you're probably not going to meet anyone else while living in a sexless relationship, but if you're actively single then your chances are much higher.
Just to offer a counter to the grim forecast offered by >>30831 , there's always the option for couples counselling, if you are able to source it (being in London should help). Your partner might not be able to flip a switch in her head and start boinking your brains out just because you point out to her that it she might enjoy it, but some facetime with a professional might help her (and you) to rationalise her expectations when it comes to sex.
>>30831 >If this was in reverse she'd be pestering you like sex is some sort of human right
They're having sex, it just sounds like she isn't enjoying it. If that's a dealbreaker for him, then it is. If he's making her cum (actually, are you actually making her cum?) and she's still not enjoying it then she might just be asexual. Think you might be injecting more of your own stuff here m8
I'm not sure a relationship counsellor would help the OP. I feel like this is like expecting a cat to be a dog. This person clearly doesn't see the value in the activity, if I explained my hobby to you it doesn't matter how equilently I described it, unless I somehow showed you something in yourself untapped you aren't going to like it as much as I do, if I tried encourage you to do it more I might even put you off. She already has tried this hobby, once in a while is apparently sufficient interest for her, unless she discovers a reason she wants to do it more.
How is she in other regards OP does she care about you, and how does she show it? and how much do you care about her?
If you're in-shape (assume that's what you mean by "done your best"), doing well (or well enough) and attractive to other women, you shouldn't be so hooked on this one.
Theres an e-saying, "attraction can't be negotiated". I've found that to be a bit untrue. It can't be explicitly negotiated, as in "if I do A, B and C, then we have sex at least twice a week", but it can be implicitly negotiated. If you're in shape, have your shit sorted, make enough money to be (or feel) independent from your partner financially, have mates who you go out with.
To be honest, I think this is partly the big drawback of being heterosexual in that men and women have mismatched libidos. That's a very generalist statement but I've only ever found one woman who can keep up with me in a relationship and it's rare to find a lass who won't at least be tempted to use sex as a weapon.
But having said that, anything less than twice a week is definately where you need to draw the line - and you don't even have kids yet. Either get used to a tiny London studio (actually not that bad) or go on one of those roommate matching sites. I'd offer but I'm in my 30s so I probably need to get a house out of London in a couple years at most.
>>30835 My line of thinking is that if indeed she does have an unhealthy relationship with sex, she may not realise it herself - bearing in mind that she did initially present herself to the OP as being a more sexual person than she turned out to be. It would not be impossible for the OP to address this without coming from a place that could be perceived as self-serving, but as we've seen, she is obviously tetchy about it and it hasn't gone so well in past attempts. A well-informed and impartial third-party could be helpful in at least determining if there's something wrong between the two of them that can be fixed, or if - as you and other are saying - she's got a fundamentally flawed idea of what sex in a relationship means.
>>30838 I remember a decade or so when Stephen Fry caught a lot of flack for implying that gay men are better off for precisely that reason, eventually having to publicly backtrack and pass it off as a shit attempt at a joke.
It's wierd how you're all assuming it's some kind of attraction issue. Clearly lots of you are fortunate enough never to have been in this situation, so congratulations to you, but I think you are all severly misreading it.
I've had several healthy and highly sexual relationships. Then I had one which matched OP's description to an absolute fault. The only explaination I could come up with once it was dealt with is that sex was, for her, part of the general "good impression" you try and keep up during that honeymoon phase of a relationship. You know how you always keep yourself trimmed and make sure the flat is spotless at first, then as you get more comfortable with each other, you don't mind leaving the dishes and lounging in your PJ's... Same thing. She got complacent and thought she didn't need to do those "Morning handsome..." blowjobs any more either, despite the fact I was still making her squirt like a fire hydrant.
Sometimes a person is just selfish, knowingly or not. The only thing you can do is have a conversation about it and hope they care enough about you to buck their ideas up; but in OP's post he already said she flipped out at him when he tried to bring it up. So what is he to do?
This is not intended to be a grim forecast and make OP feel glum, but I do feel like I'm the only person in this thread giving honest advice from a place of experience, and you lot sound more like the Daily Star's agony aunt.
Just throwing this out there, but my impression is that it's not to do with attraction or misleading you. I think young women (especially pretty young women) tend to have a rather complicated relationship with sex and how to enjoy it.
I'm not defending your girlfriend at all. As someone else pointed out, if the situation were reversed then you can guarantee sex would suddenly become a basic human right and grounds for breakup. But let's try and put that hypocrisy aside for the sake of understanding.
Say you've been bombarded with offers of sex for most of your life from desperate blokes, willing to do or say virtually anything to fuck you. Do you think this would cheapen your view of sex, or at least lessen its importance? When everyone is falling over themselves to get in your pants, in what context do you even begin learn to initiate?
>I tried to talk to her about it a few months back, calmly, rationally and politely and she absolutely lost her shit.
No matter how calm or rational or polite you think you're being, when you hit on a sensitive topic for someone their mind will probably go to the worst case scenario. You said, "I don't feel sexually satisfied", hoping the response would be compassion. She heard, however unfairly, "we don't fuck enough so hop to it or you're dumped", which probably made her brain dart to the conclusion that you were going through the motions of the relationship just to get to sex. A nightmare scenario for her. That's probably where the threat of oral sex as a bargaining chip came from.
Again, I'm not defending her, I'm just saying if you care about her this might require some digging around in her head. The issue may not be with you, but with sex as a whole -- else why would she date someone she found unattractive in the past? To get away from the pressure of sex, maybe?
The difficult part of this is, she may not want to examine how she thinks about sex and you can't force anyone to do so. And even if you do, all you can do is bring these things to light and hope she'll learn to see things in a different way, which she might not.
Anyway, those are just my two pennies. Good luck, OP.
Ah the classic 'I'm definitely really sexual I promise let me build up false expectations and not meet them in the hope you get involved and settle for whatever the truth is.'
Why the fuck do people lie about these things? It makes no sense to me.
> think young women (especially pretty young women) tend to have a rather complicated relationship with sex and how to enjoy it.
I think it comes from some sort of weird misandry they are taught. "Men are only after ONE thing" so sexual activity and the desire for sexual activity with them is treated as a pejorative.
There obviosuly is a truth in they are letched upon, but the over-generalisation of 'you wanting to have sex with me is bad and I should avoid it' probably isn't healthy and an easy trap to fall into, when it comes times to do things on your terms it is basically a sin.
>>30840 I'm sorry but that poster clearly has their own issues with women and relationships, and is letting that dictate their perspective on this issue, which is compromising the quality of advice they're trying to give and potentially misleading OP. The other poster is thinking of themselves, not the people involved here, and tbh no-one is thinking about the woman involved as the issue is really with her, OP's just observing it. It's probably either depression, insecurity, or asexuality of some kind. Maybe she's even been molested.
Now you can see with posts like >>30845 that the topic is taking a bit of a turn, which was seeded by the post I originally replied to, which was a bit "Fucking women eh" which doesn't seem helpful.
This is the worst troll I've seen on emo it offers nothing constructive, people have made ample attempts to understand this woman but their motives are obfuscated by the small lenses we have to view them, you hand wave those off as 'no one is thinking of the woman invoved' where as you presume to know the inside of her head (there doesn't have to be something wrong with her she can just be incompatible with OPs and their needs be different but you hadn't considered that idea valid in your infinite wisdom) and offer nothing constructive just sneering presumption that everyone else's view is bias and wrong except yours
>>30847 OP hasn't responded for the entire thread yet, hopefully he's ok. The thread is just a dozen posts about people working themselves up about their own experiences with women. We need OP to come back and provide more information.
You seem to have taken some personal offence at my post, and I'm sorry for that, there's no 'sneering'. I'm comparing the advice given here to the advice on similar issues I've seen on other sites, and it seems lacking. There was nothing wrong with the below post, it is constructive.
>>They're having sex, it just sounds like she isn't enjoying it. If that's a dealbreaker for him, then it is. If he's making her cum (actually, are you actually making her cum?) and she's still not enjoying it then she might just be asexual.
I want to help OP and since they haven't responded yet, it's quite hard to actually do so as these questions need answers. With the lack of information, it's just coming down to you filling in the gaps in your imagination, which lead to irrelevant statements like...
>If this was in reverse she'd be pestering you like sex is some sort of human right
...are not helpful, they're presumptuous, and if OP will respond to fill in some more information, I'll be able to provide better advice.
I hope you understand, please be more reserved on emo, it's not for shitposting or trolling, it's for OP, whom we're all here to help. Don't start fights here.
The fact she flipped out at him for trying to raise the issue in conversation is what pretty much invalidates that perspective. In any other circumstance I'd probably be on board with you saying "let's just think about how she feels for a minute", but the fact is if the OP can't even approach the situation without causing a shit storm, he's at a complete dead end. Communication and understanding is the only way to address relationship issues properly, so when you can't have that, you can't fix the problem.
What can he do if they can't talk about it? It's a non-starter and in all my years I've never seen a positive outcome from that kind of fundamental roadblock.
It is possible he raised the issue in the wrong way and hurt her feelings when there may be a better way to approach it. I say this with the disclaimer that even if that's so I think him moving on may be the right thing to do.
It's possible, but as this is /emo/ we should at least give the OP the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't seem fair that an OP can come to us with a legitimate problem and for our reaction to be to suggest he's raised the issue poorly.
There's nothing wrong with bargaining for sex if it's done in the spirit of co-operation. All couples eventually get a bit lazy and uninspired in the bedroom, there will invariably be a mismatch in libidos to some extent, so "I'll suck you off if you take the bins out first" can be a perfectly reasonable and mature compromise.
The real problems happen in relationships that become adversarial rather than co-operative, when one or both partners are trying to "win" rather than work together. To me the red flag in OP's post isn't that his girlfriend has lost interest in sex, but that she seems unwilling to work towards a mutually beneficial solution. If you can't work as a team, the rest is doomed from the outset.
>>30853 The real red flag in OP's post and your post for that matter - is that both his missus and you view sex as a transaction. That should never be the case in a healthy relationship. How far away are you from telling your missus that you will give her £50 for a bit of BJ?
If you are powerless enough that you would bargain for sex, then you aren't sexy enough to her anyway. So might as well move on and not waste your life, and find someone who wants to fuck you.
I don't want to be rude m8, but how old are you and what's the longest relationship you've been in? Sex is a very different thing when you're settled in a relationship and charging headlong towards middle-age. Withholding sex as a means to an end is undoubtedly toxic, but working together to satisfy each other's needs (sexual or otherwise) is the hallmark of a healthy relationship.
Lust does not survive in the long term. You will start to get a bit bored of each other, you will struggle to find the time and energy, you will have an ebbing and flowing sex drive due to stress and hormones and general health. The question is how you can deal with that stuff together rather than allowing it to force you apart.
Thanks for all the responses, I wrote this last night and wasn't expecting to come back to a good bit of activity.
Special shout out to the lad that has obviously been through it, it completely echoes my experience. >>30831 How did it turn out for you in the end?
There are a few lads questioning the sex. She orgasms every time. Not fake, not close. Very rarely (once in 20), she won't reach climax but make effort to let me get my thrills off. I also don't want to be that guy on the internet, but my member isn't insubstantial and whilst this isn't the only part of a successful dalliance, it works in the very type of specific sex she gets off to. We will often do it for her, then for me once I've satisfied her, so it's not that. Of course it could be but it's really not something that seems plausible.
>>30843 Thanks, she has had plenty of reasons to dump me before, but for some reason this was the one that sent her off the fucking edge. I really don't get it, I think somebody may have insulted her in the past or something? I have never seen somebody react so badly to anything. I just said I'd like a bit more and her to not just kind of expect me to lead and do everything and she burst into tears, insulted me and left and wanted to break up despite being otherwise, quite frankly, a little obsessive about me.
Maybe I did raise it the wrong way, but I was factual, didn't blame her, didn't embarrass her (or not intentionally) and just said how I felt and communicated what I would like.
>>30854 I agree, at the beginning she once said 'blowjobs are degrading' which pricked my ears up but has had no problem sucking me off in the earlier days and very seldom recently. She also sometimes asks me how hard or soft she should hold my cock whilst tugging it. She treats it like a radioactive rod that might become active at any moment. It seems weird to me in her late 20s she is asking and isn't sure, maybe it's inexperience?
I'm genuinely baffled. I feel like maybe she's just very fit, so she's never been denied or told she's not very good because people are just happy to be with her.
Either way lads today I looked at rooms in shares. It's going to be depressing going from my nice flat back to a messy houseshare but what else can I do? The past week has been especially bad, so it's probably coming regardless.
The only other thing frustrating me is that she will joke, she will grab my cock, rub herself sexually on me in the day, bounce on my lap, all that, but never actually follow up or let it progress. I don't know if she knows how fucking awkward that is.
Some of you lads scared me but I swear I have had girls in the past as equally into it as me so they can't be that rare.
Well, I'm still with her. Things are marginally better than they were back when I felt exactly as you described in the OP, but make no mistake, it's still a far cry from the kind of sex life I've had in the past. It's a compromise though- I was at least able to talk to her and make her understand a bit more that it's not so much about whether she's "good" in bed or not, we all have our off days after all and I won't pretend I'm some stallion who can go for three hours. It's more just the sense that she's at least making an effort goes an extremely long way. It feels a bit less one sided now, which makes it at least tolerable for me.
In our case it was very clearly a lack of confidence on her part, which I can't really hold against her, but the issue was that she was essentially just avoiding it rather than working with me to help overcome it, and it was very frustrating. It's kind of an old dog new tricks thing though, she will likely always be a bit more reserved than I want her to be, and part of the problem is probably just that I have been spoiled in the past by having a few very adventurous open minded partners who were always incredibly enthusiastic, and understood instinctively how to make it a mutually enjoyable and self-esteem boosting experience. My feeling is just that once people become set in their ways, as I think we all do in adulthood, it's very rare you will get a complete about face out of them.
The trouble in your case is, like someone else said, if you're not even able to talk about it without her kicking off, I don't see a way out of it. It's just kind of a dead end. If I sounded too fatalistic about it in my other post, it's because I was kind of reading into those red flag signs you mentioned. She doesn't sound like the type to be persuaded, and I would imagine her relationship with sex has probably been one-way like this for most of her life, and that's how she's happy for it to stay.
Alternatively she might be the type who really wants you to come on strong and be the dominant type. Make her do it and then call her a slut. You know the sort of thing I mean. There's a lass at work who sometimes complains her boyfriend isn't rough enough with her, and when I ask "have you told him this?" she says something to the effect of "but that's against the point". Now, I've participated in some very nasty and degrading fucking in my life, but it has always been with the up-front understanding that that's how she wants to be treated, and it's a minefield all of it's own if a lass expects you to read her mind about it. But nevertheless.
>>30858 Thanks for your response - I don't know how you do it.
For me it feels like it's leading to genuine resentment and as soon as I've set myself up I'm out of here. I cannot fucking stand it and I can't live my life knowing that at the end I'll hate I didn't satisfy one of my most basic human desires.
If you have any advice on how to hit this place of peace please help me because she's got until next week then she's gone.
