>>71558
Just about everyone cast in phoenix nights is a comedian, largely mates from the stand-up circuit or who had been in his previous tv shows. The original plan was for Bernard manning to play Brian Potter.

>>71559
Iirc, it's in Peter Kay's autobiography that when he was starting out if he ever entered a comedy competition Johnny Vegas would wipe the floor with him.

>>71560
>Just about everyone cast in phoenix nights is a comedian

I did enjoy Jim Bowen's turn as the proprietor of the Blackpool Tower Ballroom.

"Wot 'appened ta yer legs?"
(eyeballing the ridiculous ginger syrup) "NEVAHMINDMAHLEGS! Wot 'appened ta yer 'ead? Ye were bald last ah saw yer!"

Sometimes you need a bit of reliability. Like a bar of chocolate that still tastes the same as it did when you were an ankle biter. that's Peter Kay.

>>71559
I reserve the right to criticise Peter Kay's stand-up comedy for not being as good as Phoenix Nights, but I will agree that it always annoys me when professional comedians have a go at him. All I need to do is laugh or not laugh, and tell you which one I did. But where the fuck does Seann Walsh or Rufus Hound get off saying Peter Kay is a shit comedian? They're Seann Walsh and Rufus Hound. They're less than nothing. Every night, they try really hard to be a good comedian and they fail far harder than Peter Kay does. Who would listen to their opinions on how to be a good stand-up comedian?

>>71559

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I'm angry or offended that his comedy is so popular, it's just that I don't really understand why it is apparently so funny to so many. Fair play to him, I just don't get it - but that's fine. I'm not looking down my nose at it as much as I'm frustrated that I can't grasp the appeal of it.

>>71570
For the people that were around in the 80s, it's harmless nostalgia. "Ah yes I remember the Chicken Tonight jingle, ah yes I remember Knight Rider and A-Team". For the younger folk, it's just because he's generally got a likeable aura and can make you laugh even if the bit is about TV from 10 years before you were born. I went to see him in 2003ish, when he was on top of the world after the success of Phoenix Nights and Top Of The Tower. I was only 10, didn't get most of the references, but had a good time. He has a good aura on stage, despite apparently being a bit of a cunt backstage. And stupid observations, kids skidding on their knees at a wedding disco, reaction to spitting weather, etc. Everyone can relate to at least one of his bits in each show.

He is unfairly compared to hacks like Michael McIntyre and John Bishop and Mickey Flanagan, but Kay avoided that quagmire of shitty panel shows, and spent years away from the public eye, so now he's back it feels more special.

>>71579

That's the part that deserves respect. I'd put him more alongside someone like Lee Evans, very much cut of the same cloth I think. He's made his living as a stand-up, doing stand-up. He never had to whore himself out on dave, only been on the telly here and there, and everyone knows him as a stand-up first and foremost. That's not easily achieved.

>>71580

The critics would argue that his sparse output is symptomatic of a lack of talent. He does one thing very well, but he just doesn't have the versatility or writing chops to keep up a normal work rate for a stand-up comedian. Those people going on panel shows and doing bits of presenting are also writing and touring a new show every year, plus doing bits of writing for other stuff.

The normal logic of comedy is that going on telly "burns" material, because it's poor form to re-use jokes. Doing a lot of TV work forces you to write lots of new material. Kay doesn't do much if any TV work and he tours so infrequently that he seems to get away with re-using a lot of material. By all accounts, the second half of his current tour show isn't really stand-up at all, but some kind of weird cabaret thing.

I'm not having a dig, but it's obvious why people in the comedy industry might not have much respect for him. His career has been very canny, but he has managed to blag his way on the back of nostalgia, charisma and other people's efforts. I think it's very telling that most of Kay's past collaborators have massively fallen out with him.

>>71581

i suppose that's fair in some respects, but then again, If I had the break-out success he did, I think I'd put my feet up for five years at a time too, frankly. I think a lot of it is still sour grapes because those other comics wish they could do the same thing, but instead they have to keep at the grind.

>>71582

Many of them don't have to, they just like to. Michael McIntyre earns something like £20m a year from touring alone. A typical arena tour will bring in several million and someone selling out large theatres is comfortably earning in the high six figures. You've got to go down to the club comics and people touring regional arts theatres to find people who need to be working regularly.

There are plenty of people in the upper echelons of comedy who could comfortably afford to stop touring and certainly don't need to be doing podcasts and Edinburgh shows for nothing. For the most part, they do it because they enjoy it, they'd still be doing it if they were earning £80 for a ten minute club set.

>>71583

Yeah, but michael macintyre almost certainly isn't one of the people who criticises peter kay, is he?

>>71584

He's far too nice to criticise anyone, which is half the point. McIntyre was consistently kind and supportive to other comedians when he was a struggling club comic with a shitload of debt and he treats people just the same now that he's a multi-millionaire. He might be a bellend who skips around on stage and presents gameshows, but he played the same horrible club gigs as everyone else and absolutely took the roof off. Everyone who was on the circuit around the same time as him says exactly the same about him, even if they really dislike his brand of comedy - lovely bloke, brilliant comedian. He clearly cares about the craft and puts in the effort, even at a point in his career where he doesn't really need to.

Twenty-odd years ago, Kay was a perfectly serviceable headliner who was needlessly rude and disrespectful to a large proportion of the people he came into contact with. He became massively famous with copious help from Spikey and Fitzmaurice, then did everything in his power to downplay their involvement. He happened to become famous at a time when DVDs were a huge money-spinner and you could earn millions from a couple of hit shows. For the last fifteen years or so, he has done very little of note other than Car Share while continuing to snub the industry that gave him his career and the people who helped to make him rich and famous.

Kay is entitled to take the money and run, that's his prerogative. Equally, people are entitled to slag him off.

>>71585
IIRC, he's also blocked repeats of Phoenix Nights because he didn't want the others to benefit from royalty payments after they fell out. You won't find his shows on 4od for streaming either.

>>71585

Maybe they were cunts to him too. Two sides to every story in my experience.

>>71585
Remember also that Michael McIntyre's dad was a media agent and Kenny Everett used to come to his house all the time. He had a lot more connections than your usual identikit comedian. It's nice to know he's a lovely person (I saw him at my university in 2006 before he was famous), but he probably had an easier ride to the top than, say, Frankie Boyle.

In fact, you sound like you know: what's Frankie Boyle like? My guess is he's a humourless and po-faced professional who is perfectly respectful and easy to work with.

>>71587

If someone thinks you're a cunt, it's probably their problem. If everyone thinks you're a cunt, they might have a point.

>>71588

>What's Frankie Boyle like?

He is constantly on the brink of being overwhelmed by all of the injustice and cruelty in the world. His stage persona is a mask that allows him to address those topics without breaking down in tears. The nihilistic brutality of his comedy is a defense against his genuine and deeply-felt pain about the suffering of other people. In person he is quiet and gentle, reserved but empathetic. He's slightly aloof, but not in an arrogant way - he has no interest in showbiz hob-nobbing, he's just a middle-aged man who wants to do his job and go home to his family.

It might seem odd to say after all that, but he strikes me as abnormally well-adjusted by the standards of comedy. Most comedians are incredibly needy in one way or another. They're desperate for fame, desperate for approval, desperate to be liked, desperate to prove that they're cleverer than everyone else. In a green room full of comedians, there's usually a fizzing tension as all of those urgent neurotic needs rub up against each other. Boyle is a sensitive man who makes jokes about war crimes and murdered sex workers as a kind of shared catharsis, but when he isn't doing that he just wants to read books and potter around town and be a good dad.

>>71590

Okay I was taking you seriously at first but if you're simping for frankie boyle, of all people, like this then I can only assume you're a producer for Hat Trick and not a reliable source.

don't get me wrong I don't doubt he's a decent bloke underneath the offensive jokes, but I've also seen him a couple of times and he got a right tiff on over hecklers on both occasions. a comedian who can't handle a heckle really puts me off- that's when you're in the same ballpark as people like chubby brown.

>>71591
>A COMEDIAN WHO CAN'T HANDLE A HECKLE REALLY PUTS ME OFF- THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE IN THE SAME BALLPARK AS PEOPLE LIKE CHUBBY BROWN.

I think it's that sort of thing that led to Jerry Sadowitz to get his knickers in a twist about Boyle. They're telling the same kind of jokes, but one's genuinely anarchic whereas Boyle reminds me of a school kid discovering sickipedia.

Alright then lad, give us the run down on Sarah Millicans fanny custard.

>>71591

>he got a right tiff on over hecklers on both occasions

If you buy a ticket for a show with a title like I Would Happily Punch Every One Of You In The Face or Hurt Like You've Never Been Loved and get offended, you're in the wrong. If you're a drunken idiot who is just being disruptive, the act is entirely within their rights to just have you removed by security rather than trying to subdue you with witty badinage.

Punters like to see a comedian put down a heckler and some comedians (mostly one-liner acts) do thrive under that spontaneity, but it's a huge pain in the arse if you have to derail a carefully-written piece of material to deal with a gobshite.

I don't think that punters appreciate the amount of plate-spinning that's going on in most theatre shows. Lines that seem like casual asides are often essential setup for a callback later in the show. There's a lot of delicate work required to maintain a coherent structure to a routine while making it seem natural. A lost line or a shift in energy can be much more disruptive than it would appear at first glance. "Dealing" with a heckler might make for a memorable moment, but it jeopardises the quality of the show that people have paid to see.

>>71594

I've never sampled her pudding IYKWIM, but I can tell you that she's one of the most clear-headed and determined people in the industry. Underneath her mumsy appearance lies the precision and the business brain of Jimmy Carr. Her persona isn't cynical or fake, but it is absolutely intentional. Sarah Millican the person isn't wildly different from Sarah Millican the performer, but what you don't see on stage is the hundreds of hours spent painstakingly analysing every word, every inflection, every gesture. She is insecure, she is a bit slovenly, but she also has a ferocious intellect and an immense drive.

She reminds me a lot of Victoria Wood, who in turn reminds me of Alan Bennett - genuine working-class voices with real intellectual heft. Millican started out as a playwright before she ever considered trying comedy and it wouldn't surprise me if she started writing serious drama.

>>71595

No mate, it just means they're a shit comic.

>>71596
>precision and the business brain of Jimmy Carr
I hope HMRC have been informed.

They had Peter kay on Sara cox's radio 2 show. He was pretending to be at a payphone and that he'd put a quid in so there was a big queue of people waiting after him. He even pretended that one of them was banging on the door to get him to hurry up! I think he even made a joke about the pips!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hK8EbafSlg

Payphones! Remember them?

>>71591

>THERE'S A LOT OF DELICATE WORK REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN A COHERENT STRUCTURE TO A ROUTINE WHILE MAKING IT SEEM NATURAL.

WHO REMEMBERS THE IRANIAN EMBASSY SIEGE? WHO REMEMBERS RAIN? GARLIC.........BREAD. GARLIC......AND BREAD?! CHEESE....CAKE....

A LOST ART INDEED

You can't tell me he's a well man.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/peter-kay-looks-extremely-different-30104245

>>72039

love and cherished.

>>72039
He'd better survive. There's going to be a huge opening in the comedy scene once all the paedos get outed. Again, I don't think Peter Kay is likely to be one of the predatory ones.

>>72042

>>72039
You never seen someone lose weight and age before? Go and check out Kevin Smith.

>>72044
I don't recall Kevin Smith avoiding the public eye for a decade whilst he was secretly killed and replaced with a double.

What're your thoughts on Bill Bailey? His early shows are really enjoyable if you're into that type of humour, peaking around Cosmic Jam. What he does well remains good, but toward the latest of his standup DVD releases he exudes almost a distain for his audience.

>>72049

He did really badly out of the mid-00s i reckon. after he started being on TV a bit more, particularly in black books, i feel like he got a bit of a cult following from the "lolrandom xd penguin spork" kind of audience (or at least that's what type of people I hung around with in high school and they all loved him) and started doing a bit of a phoned in impression of himself. he ended up just leaning on quite a formulaic approach where every bit was just "ha ha wouldn't it be funny if [thing] but instead [random and unexpected thing]", where the humour was just supposed to come from how much of a non-sequitir the second part was.

it used to be a lot cleverer and more musically led on his early stuff, where the impressive musical flourishes were what really made it. Like, the bloke is a fucking phenomenal musician. If you look back at stuff like the belgian jazz doctor who theme, the european siren song, or the medieval harpsichord porno funk, it's his total commitment to the gag musically that really elevates the routine. it's not just a musical parody in the style of a certain genre, it's a legitimately passionate skillfully written piece OF that genre.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ruurkdNg0?t=115


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGSNxkCIln0?t=95

anyway i get the impression the bbc made him stop using drugs or else he wouldn't be allowed on qi or something like that. his best stuff is cosmic jam and bewilderness, everything since part troll has been pretty meh.

>>72050
>THE BLOKE IS A FUCKING PHENOMENAL MUSICIAN

Really is - which is also why he won Strictly.

>>72048

I wonder if Peter Kay has ever been invited to a #susanalbumparty.

>>72050

Like Al Murray, I suspect that he's just a bit bored of the gimmick but the money is too good to refuse. They could easily afford to retire, but why would you retire when you can make seven figures from a fairly low-effort tour? I can't begrudge either of them for just going through the motions, because I think I'd do the same in their position.

>>72050
I was about to post that I despise Bill Bailey, because I do, but I think you've got the reasoning pretty much spot on. People worship him for reasons I don't get, for jokes I've never heard, and they can never quote them when I ask what I'm missing. But I think I know the "Belgian jazz Doctor Who" routine, and I appreciated it when I heard it, before I was sick of him. He also did that song about Chris de Burgh which I still think about sometimes.

Bill Bailey reminds me of a friend of mine, and based on this, I would say he's not a sex predator but he might be a transvestite who makes up new genders for himself while simultaneously acknowledging that it doesn't really make sense.

I'm getting ads on Facebook to watch a Peter Kay tribute act.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D312D38bgDU

https://www.tickettailor.com/events/carltonentertainmentsandeventmanagement/978519

£23 per ticket!

>>72329
A level of cultural stagnation hitherto unseen by modern audiences!

>>72329
A weird job. A comedian basing his appearance, demeanour and material entirely on another comedian's. But then is this any different from a Bon Jovi tribute band dressing and playing the songs of the real band? Why am I fine with tribute bands, but tribute comedians make me sad?

>>72044
Kevin Smith lost weight because he was nearly killed by a heart attack. He is not a good example of a healthy man.

>>72331
>Why am I fine with tribute bands, but tribute comedians make me sad?
It's arguably because a tribute band still requires some musical ability, even if that's just technical, whereas tributing a comedian doesn't - all the material is prepared, you'd literally just be saying the same thing. You might say the same of any celebrity impersonator (impressionist? Not sure of the right word) but they don't get the same reaction as is suggested in this clip >>72329
I think the difference is in the effort vs the gain; celebrity impersonators are niche and tongue in cheek, whereas this Simon Marks has a crowd calling after him, for little more than his look and re-heated content.
It's a weak arguement, I recognise, but there's clearly something wrong with it.

>>72333

I think it's because singing is communal while humour is more competitive. Socially, we sing as an act of bonding, but we often tell jokes to show off our wit. If you're out on the piss and your mate starts singing, they're naturally going to choose a song that they expect you to know and your natural instinct is to join in. It would be fucking weird if they started telling a joke that you knew by heart and you joined in by reciting all the words; equally, it'd be weird if you took turns to sing songs in an attempt to one-up each other with the best song. Jokes are supposed to be novel and surprising and tend to get less funny over time, but our favourite songs tend to be old songs that are attached to personal memories and meaning.

Peter Kay is a weird edge case, because so much of his act is based around nostalgia. A lot of his jokes are barely jokes at all - they're delivered with the rhythm of a joke, but there isn't a real punchline, just a memory. It's like a collective reminiscence. I think he's probably the only comedian who could have a tribute act. If a normal comedian recycled a load of old material for their tour show, they'd get complaints; I imagine that the kind of person who pays to see Peter Kay would be disappointed if he didn't say GARLIC BREAD at some point.

>>72333
I know you're on about impersonators rather than impressionists, but one clip that is forever scorched into my brain is when Jon Culshaw was on the one show (or something like that) and he was at a call centre where he rang one of the workers pretending to be Alan Carr. The cameras followed him approaching her in the office and the look on her face, going from the sheer of excitement of thinking she was meeting Alan Carr to the disappointment of realising it was actually Culshaw, was priceless.

I am the woman Peter Kay compared to Lisa Riley. I burst out crying because I thought he was ridiculing my weight

https://archive.ph/4vdUw

Peter Kay was out of order for comparing my daughter to Lisa Riley - she only said we loved him

https://archive.ph/4uVak

I was treated like a unabummer for shouting 'garlic bread' at Peter Kay! Drunken heckler, 52, who 'ruined' comedian's gig speaks out

https://archive.ph/eCOcU

Is one of the side effects of having cancer that you always look ill afterwards?

>>72684

I don't know, but it's definitely a side-effect of beefy poz loads and crystal meth. Allegedly.

>>72685
>beefy poz loads and crystal meth
How many of these are wordfilters?

>>72684
All things considered, he's looking dead good.

>>72687
What did he have? I am seeing conflicting reports about kidney stones, cancer, something that begins with M but I got called away at work and now I can’t remember it…did he have all of these? Despite all the speculation, everyone seems weirdly coy about it, so I assume it’s actually AIDS.

>>72688
Whenever I've read online comments on news articles about him there's invariably at least one or two people saying they either had (or know someone who has) cancer treatment at the same time as him.