Basically my dream is to ride bikes. I spend a lot of time watching youtube videos of motorcycle riders doing video blogs while riding. I am not a confident person and at the moment I don't trust myself with motorbikes, especially in London where drivers are extremely aggressive. But once I've finished studying (or got a part time job) I really want to ride again, I don't have many aspirations in this world but riding is one of them.
Two years ago when I lived in my hometown of Leicester I had a full time job with money to burn and I did my CBT (test in England to ride bikes up to 250cc) and passed. I then bought an Aprilia RS250. I rode it around my block a few times and holy shit I felt like my childhood dreams had come true, I never rode it to work because I wasn't confident on it. The bike had a load of issues and was extremely inconsistent also. I dropped it once and I had trouble picking it up, I'm an extremely skinny guy and this dropped my confidence more. I ended up selling it, I felt like a complete failure.
I have since moved to London to study at university and there are many people riding bikes and it made me want to try again, I may do another CBT test just to get me into it again when I can afford it since I just love the idea.
Can someone give me some advice on riding bikes and any experiences? Should I wait until I'm confident in myself before trying again since I'm scared to injure myself or others or humiliate myself?
>>2800 Firstly, ignore the YouTube videos. I have been riding since 1995 and I ride about 60 miles every day to work, the whole year round. I've never had any kind of crash - the few times I have dropped my bike it is at zero miles per hour, usually reversing or in the snow or something like that. Picking them up is very hard work, even when you know what you're doing.
I ride like a girl. On my daily rides I am fucking wired into what is going on, I treat it like the best video game in the whole world. You have to be hyper-aware of the traffic, what is going on around you, you have to be totally in the moment. You can't listen to music or talk on the phone or do all that shit you can get away with in a car - every day someone will try and kill you - so far they've failed, it is possible to be a daily bike, ride on motorways and in London and stay out of trouble - you just have to take it seriously.
Riding like a girl doesn't mean you can't have fun or break the speed limit or have fun, and my apologies to any female bikers here. It just means you manage the risks carefully and ride totally in the moment. There are many days when my commute is the best two hours of the day.
What makes you think we wouldn't know this stuff? It's not just England it's the UK. It's also not 250cc, it's 125cc so you were riding that bike illegally and could have lost your license.
How many different chans have you posted this on, come clean?
Back on topic, if you aren't confident you will get yourself hurt or, god forbid, killed. Do your CBT then start to take lessons with a well reviewed instructor. Hopefully the person who puts you through your CBT is good, it'll save leg work.
The instructor will teach you how to drive confidently and after you pass you can drive which ever bike takes your fancy. Although, I'd stick to 250cc if I were you. You'll need years of practise to confidently handle the power.
>>2801 Are you the bloke who once posted about YouTube videos that consist of utterly boring footage of motorcycle journeys that the rider thinks people will find exciting just because they've put 009 Sound System - Dreamscape over the top?
You are approaching a T junction from the right. You can turn left or carry on straight. You are carrying on straight, however there is a large van waiting to pull out and it doesn't appear to be indicating.
What is the first thing you should be looking for as you approach this junction?
More or less, but you should be watching for wheel rotation not vehicle movement. They can be pedantic as fuck about that.
If you're watching the van you aren't watching the road. It can be hard to tell the vehicle is going to pull out until the last minute and you wouldn't have time to break. Wheel rotation is an instant tell.
Your nervousness on a bike isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign that you're sane and rational. Motorcycling is an inherently risky thing to do and the only thing that can really mitigate that risk is your skill as a rider. A lot of young lads buy a bike, do their CBT, tear around at full throttle for three weeks and then end up in A&E. Moped and 125 riders are the highest risk group of all motorcyclists, because inexperience and the bravado of youth are a dangerous combination.
The CBT really is the bare minimum of training and I'd strongly recommend taking a few lessons after your CBT, if not a full DAS course. Most people would be very nervous driving a car solo after just a couple of hours of training - it takes most car drivers forty hours of training to pass their test, and many of them are still very nervous driving alone for the first time.
I had the same sort of false start as you - did my CBT, scared the hell out of myself, then came back to biking years later. I did a six-day residential DAS course, which was a bit pricey (about £700 IIRC) but gave me lots of time riding with an instructor on quiet country roads. After passing my test I did a couple of instructor-supervised rides on my own bike, and I still do a couple of days of Bikesafe training every year so an expert can pick me up on any bad habits.
I'd suggest buying an easy-to-ride commuter bike like a CBF125 rather than the race replica that you bought first time around. The RS125 is a fabulous bike, but it's a real handful for a novice. Two-stroke bikes are really hard work, because the power all comes in one huge spurt at the top of the rev band. To make any sort of progress you have to constantly blip up and down the gears and you can scare yourself silly if you get the revs wrong.
Even for experienced riders, a two-stroke race rep can be stressful to ride, especially around town. A nice easy-going four stroke gives you much more controllable power, with lots of torque at low revs. Commuter bikes also have a much more upright riding position which makes it easier to see around you, a lower seat height which makes it easier to get your feet down, and more relaxed steering that makes the bike less twitchy and easier to handle.
Being skinny isn't a big impediment - most of the MotoGP grid is made up of absolutely tiny blokes, because lighter riders are at a competitive advantage. Dani Pedrosa was third in this year's world championship but weighs eight stone nothing, and none of the top ten weigh more than ten and a half stone. Being able to right a dropped bike is mainly a matter of technique - if you try and pick it up with your arms you're stuffed, but the smallest rider can easily right the biggest bike if they use the proper method[1].
Motorcycling is accessible to everyone. The fact that you're initially nervous doesn't mean in any way that you're not cut out for it, it just makes you sensible. Make a plan, scrape the money together, get yourself trained and go out there and ride.
I'm on the fence with getting a bike, I'm going through the phase of asking questions and trying to rationalise if I really need one.
Your post was excellent, really. It cleared up a lot of other questions I've had, but I still want to ask these;
- Is having a bike practical? Not too long of a commute, is ok, but is anything longer a chore?
- What about carrying things, you need to load xyz, be it groceries, luggage, people, how practical is it?
- The weather. How much does the weather impact the way you ride? When it rains are you absolutely screwed?
- Is a bike much easier to travel with than a car? A personal dream of mine would be travel around Europe, maybe even the US.
I'm 25, I forfeit my drivers licence 4 years ago as I chose to study abroad instead. Since coming back, I still haven't found a need for a car - but bike would be something interesting to try out. My parent's won't have any of it - not even for a second. Usually they are like that, but something about motorcycles really sets them off and makes them think it's a death warrant. Any argument I can use against theirs?
If you're still out there, I'd much appreciate a reply.
Bikes (and especially scooters) are a perfectly practical mode of transport within reasonable bounds. To go through your questions:
Bikes in general are perfectly practical for long journeys. It's more effort than driving a car because you're exposed to the elements, but plenty of people cover very long distances by bike. A 125cc bike is a bit of a chore for long journeys because of the limited power (most 125s will only do 60-65mph and take a while to get there) but bigger bikes will eat up the miles as easily as any car. I know plenty of people who take long (50-100 mile) commutes into London and cover the best part of a thousand miles in a weekend trip to the continent.
Luggage is inevitably a limitation. Scooters have an underseat storage box that's usually big enough for two helmets or a couple of bags of groceries. You can add side panniers and a top box to any bike or scooter, which will give you about a hundred litres of storage in total - roughly equivalent to a very large suitcase and adequate for a weekly shop for two people. Whether that's enough luggage capacity will depend on your lifestyle. Some bikers have figured out creative schemes for carrying guitars, fishing rods, golf clubs and even drum kits on their bike.
Carrying a passenger means getting a full license, as you're not allowed to take a pillion on L-plates. Once you have a full license, carrying a passenger is perfectly straightforward, although they will need a helmet and protective gloves. You need to give them a little briefing before hand so that they know not to resist the lean of the bike and have an agreed signal if they want you to stop, but otherwise it's no more difficult than taking a passenger in your car. If you regularly take passengers, you can get an intercom system that allows you to talk to your pillion rider via a headset.
The only dealbreaker in terms of weather is ice and snow, which is just too hazardous to ride on. At about this time of year, I keep an eye on the weather forecast so I know in advance if I'll need to get the bus or blag a lift. Otherwise, it's just a question of wearing the right gear and riding sensibly in the wet - leaving plenty of space ahead of you, keeping your speed down, braking before you think you'll need to. Newer bikes and scooters are available with anti-lock brakes, which are a real confidence booster in wet conditions. Modern motorbike clothing is highly waterproof and very warm, and you can add electrically heated grips to keep your hands toasty. There's nothing stopping you from using a bike as year-round transport.
Bikes aren't necessarily that much easier to travel with, but they can have much lower running costs and they're far easier to park. They are a hell of a lot more fun, which makes road trips far more enjoyable and exciting. You're not cut off from the world like you are in a car and really feel like part of your environment. If you're planning on going abroad then you'll need a full license. Riding in Europe is a doddle, you just ride down to Dover and hop on the ferry or the Eurotunnel. Going outside of the EU, you do need to do a bit of research and get your insurance sorted out.
If you don't really need motorised transport but would quite like the option, then small bikes and scooters are a hugely appealing option in terms of cost. These days you can buy a decent second-hand 125cc bike or scooter, a full set of safety clothing, a year's insurance and a CBT course for under £2000, which might well be less than you'd pay for your first year's car insurance. Fuel and other running costs are very low - a 125 costs £17 a year to tax, will do 80mpg+ and needs only very basic servicing. Running a 125 is often cheaper than a bus pass.
As regards parents, getting into an argument probably isn't going to be very productive as people tend to revert to automatic parent/child patterns of interaction. Motorcycling is inherently dangerous and there's probably not a great deal you can say to change their opinion. I really like scooters for all sorts of reasons, but one of the biggest advantages is that people tend not to mentally categorise them as motorcycles. A motorbike is seen as a deathtrap even if you're just bimbling to work at 30mph on an old CB125, but conversely a scooter tends to be seen as harmless even if it's a maxi scooter capable of 110mph+. Someone is a biker but they ride a scooter, which is a subtle but significant difference.
Unless your parents are real headcases, I'd be inclined to just go out and do it - as with most things in life, it tends to be easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. If you want to offer them some reassurance, then get the best possible training and good protective kit. Non-motorcyclists are always amazed when they try on my jacket and realise that it's built like a suit of armour, with rigid protection panels covering the shoulders, elbows and back. Modern kit offers remarkable levels of protection:
>>2834 > you can add electrically heated grips to keep your hands toasty.
I can not recommend this enough if you plan to do year round riding. Unless it gets proper frosty you can get away with wearing thing leather summer gloves even in the wet without feeling the chill and, worst come to worse, if you add some handle bar muffs then nothing this green and pleasant land can throw at you will stop you… except ice, like >>2834 said, because that's an entirely different issue. There's a reason most EU countries that have proper snow & ice winters offer seasonal insurance.
Anyway, if you do want to hop on again, as others have said getting a few more lessons is helpful. A CBT is really only about "Will you kill others", not "Will you get killed". Besides, even if you don't go DAS getting an actual A license of any form will reduce your insurance quite a bit and save you the hassle of redoing your CBT in two years time.
Being scared (gosh, I am repeating people a lot here) is just fine. You don't want to be petrified, but being concerned enough to be conscientious is really what absolutely every traffic participant should aspire to; it just happens to matter more on certain modes of transport.
Getting more into what you asked about, riding in London is only as scary as you want it to be as long as you understand two concepts: taking the lane, and "safe distance, but not large enough to invite overtakes" (the latter is a matter of experience, sadly). You don't have to filter, you don't have to weave, you don't have to pull any kind of stunt… you can just ride along with commuter traffic and relax. The option to skip past the queues of cars is always there, but until you feel confident enough to navigate those gaps you really don't have to. That is not to say that traffic cannot be bullying, mind. Certain people have the MGIF mentality (Must Get In Front, a close friend of SMIDSY) so you have to position yourself confidently. That shouldn't be a problem, though, since even on a c90 you could comfortably keep up with most of inner city London traffic (the venerable c125 has only fairly recently been replaced by the Innova 125 for delivery riders).
As for picking up your bike, there are plenty of videos out there to teach you how even a skinny lady can lift a Goldwing… it's more about technique and less about being skinny, lanky, pasty, whatever.
The long and short of it is: if you want to ride, just go friggin do it.
Thought I'd reiterate the point of extra training after the CBT with a tale of my first crash. I took my CBT a couple of months ago and hired a CG125; rode it around for 200 odd miles without too much hassle and built up a false sense of confidence. Today I was knocked right back down to size. I was about to enter a 30mph flyover, following two cars at about 25mph: one minivan in front and a saloon behind him. The minivan stopped abruptly for no reason whatsoever, and the sedan behind had to emergency brake. Panic mode engaged, I slammed on the front brake. All the shit about not panic-squeezing the front brake and using more of the rear brake on a wet road went right out the window, and the handful of practice emergency stops I did on my CBT were long forgotten. The front wheel locked, the bike slid out to the left, and I was thrown off to the right with a loud thump to my head (thank dog there was no traffic behind me). The bike's ok, and thankfully I'm not much worse off. Just a slightly throbbing head, and an ego that's far more bruised than my elbows and knees. Looking back, I may have been following half a second too closely (especially for the damp conditions), maybe I just didn't notice the cars in front in time, or maybe fixation on what was happening in front took away precious milliseconds of reaction time.
The kicker is that earlier today I knocked into a guy's rear bumper in 3mph traffic because my attention was focused on a traffic light for a split second (no damage done, just a rubber mark that he wiped away). Perhaps an omen of what was to come. I'll be staying in a state of permanent frostiness on the roads from now, and will be enduring public transport before I can get some extra lessons from an instructor.
Loads of people have little prangs like that. The big enemy for any biker is complacency - people tend to have accidents when they feel settled and confident on their bike and let their concentration slip. You see it with new bikers a few months after their CBT, you see it with more experienced riders who fall into a routine with their commute and go into autopilot or get cocky about how much speed and power they can handle. Be thankful that you escaped largely unscathed and learn what you can from it.
More training is always a good idea for any biker at any skill level, but especially for someone with just a CBT. It's also a good idea to consciously practice what you have already learned, whether that is mentally reciting your observation-signal-manoeuvre routine sometimes, talking yourself through a tricky junction, or practising emergency stops in an empty car park.
The significance of road conditions cannot be overstated; If your front wheel locks, you are pretty much guaranteed to fall off. Hazards that a car driver would ignore totally can be a real threat to a biker with so much less rubber on the road. Autumn is always peak season for bike accidents, when riders with rusty wet-weather skills come a cropper and fallen leaves create skid hazards and conceal hidden dangers. Anticipation is the key to avoiding these situations. Give yourself plenty of stopping room, read the road carefully and slow down as soon as you see a potential hazard emerging. You can avoid most kinds of trouble by just thinking a couple of seconds ahead.
