>>2981
As long as the car has dual controls (they nearly all do when learning), there is absolutely nothing to be scared of.

>how can I combat these nerves

Breathe in for four seconds. Breathe out for four seconds. Repeat indefinitely. It might sound daft but it calms you the fuck down.

Other than that, remember billions of people can drive. 50 odd million have passed the very same tests you will be doing. A great deal of them are morons - you likely know a few of them. If they can do it, why can't you?

>>2981
Man I'm still struggling with clutch control, my instructor actually got pissed off at me and I felt terrible.

Good luck to you.

>>2981
Just remember you'll never be as bad as Maureen from Driving School.

https://www.youtube.com/v/nZZNshjMA2A

Play a bit of Mario Kart Racing, lad. It's the same principle.

>>2986
I often thought Koopa Troopa Beach was eerily similar to the A26.

>>2984
My friend once told me his instructor explained what a clutch is and how it works, and it said it helped him. Knowing why you're pushing that pedal, what it actually controls may help. Have a check on youtube.

Not OP, but thought I might as well use this thread. My theory test is today; but I've yet to take any actual lessons. Is this recommended or should I have done a few lessons first?

>>3014
Why are you asking now?

>>3014
Theory test is fine without taking lessons before, as long as you've read the highway code and have a decent grasp of it. Though certain things are easier to learn through practice rather than reading theory alone, particularly the hazard perception. Though if you've played a lot of video games, hazard perception is just like a really banal version of Dragon's Lair but much eaiser.

>>3016
I um... acquired a copy of one of those PASS YOUR TEST software packages with all the practice questions and Haz Perception stuff in. It's the 2012 spec one but I don't imagine it's changed a whole lot since them. Some of the practice HP videos seemed wholly unfair; one of them requiring you to pick out a 4 pixel high (I measured it) grey cyclist on a grey background to get 5 points. Most are more obvious and clicking when you -think- one might approach is a good tactic too. Oh well, it's at 15:30 so I'll see how it goes.

I just wanted to get it out of the way so I just just work straight towards the practical.

>>3017

The hazard perception test is trivially easy if you have a solid understanding of the DSA's definition of a hazard. The vast majority of people who fail on the hazard perception are just guessing.

"A developing hazard is something that may result in you having to take some action, such as changing speed or direction."

A pedestrian isn't a hazard; A pedestrian looking to cross the road is a hazard. A vehicle in front isn't a hazard until the brake lights or indicators turn on. It's really quite simple if you keep the above definition in mind.

Of the fourteen clips, one will contain two hazards and the rest will contain only one hazard. You don't need to go clicking about like a maniac, and you won't get any marks for a clip if you click too often. Bear in mind that the pass mark is quite generous - you only need 44 out of 75 to pass the hazard perception test.

>>3014
I took the theory test without any lessons, and I was drunk. I was so close to failing.

Passed with 64/75 on HP. Now to book lessons I suppose.

>>3020

How long does your theory test last these days?

>>3021
It's down for an hour for 50 questions, but if you've been paying any attention to your instructor during your lessons, many of the answers should be common sense, hence the higher pass mark of 43/50.

>>3022
>>3021
I had the questions down in about 15 mins, and the HP took me maybe 15-20?

M8s, how do I change lanes and traverse the roundabout without shitting myself?

My instructor has to tell me and assist me everytime when to change lanes (particularly on busy dual carriageways and sliproads). I sweat buckets at the thought of ramming into someone as I try and switch lanes.

Im finding it hard to judge distance in my mirror and find a right moment to go in. Sadly I'm not a speed freak, i've got maneuvers down to a T but high speed lane changing and the like make me sweat buckets.

>>3028
Well have a glance over your shoulder too. I'll quite often have a quick glance when pulling out into a faster lane, just to make sure there's not someone zooming up, rather than just using the mirrors. And this will help to build up a sense of how what the mirror shows maps to reality.

Pulling in to the slower lane is much easier if you've just over taken the person, and are moving faster than them.

>>3028
Indicating helps. That is what the little fuckers are there for after all; indicating your intention to turn or change lanes to other drivers.

>>3028

I know what you mean m8, I was the same before passing my test. Turning my head never helped much either because then I would shit myself at not looking forwards and end up accidentally starting to swerve in the direction I was looking- Although it is vital you get comfortable doing this, because sometimes you can literally have a whole fucking house hidden in your blind spot, so someone on a motorbike will be practically invisible.

What I found helped was just getting comfortable with the entire idea of speed as you drive. Sometimes I look at those situations now and think "How did I struggle when I was learning?" The difference now is that I'm comfortable with the whole idea of going around the roundabout and getting into the lane, and I do that without thinking- So the bit where I check my mirrors and look over to make sure the other cunt hasn't put his toe down, is a safety precaution and a sort of ritual, rather than something I get panicky about. You sort of have to judge the place you want to stick your car well ahead of actually doing it. You visualise it way before you are even on the roundabout, and plan for it. You think, "Right, so I'll be swinging round here, then when I'm about halfway make sure there's nobody there, then if there is I will have time to either speed up or slow down a bit to get in in front/behind them."

If you're fretting about not having time to judge the situation then for this reason you needn't really worry, it's just a simple matter of slotting yourself in front/behind the next guy. In real life it's very rare that somebody won't let you in, and even rarer that there physically isn't space to get in. Those are the times you have to drive like a cunt and kind of barge your way through, but for your test, obviously, you want to be sticking with the "Ahh it wasn't safe boss so I went round another time just to be sure" line of thinking.

>>3031
>because sometimes you can literally have a whole fucking house hidden in your blind spot
If this happens, you haven't got your mirrors set up properly. (If you can see your own bodywork in your wing mirrors, they're wrong.) You shouldn't have much of a blind spot immediately to your right - the left is a different matter, though again if you have your mirrors set up properly you should be able to see a bike approaching.

>>3032

No, lad. Unless you drive one of those things from The Jetsons.

>>3033
That's the worst blind-spot diagram I have ever seen.

Mirrors should be set up as close to the diagram on the right as is possible for your particular car.

>>3029
>Pulling in to the slower lane is much easier if you've just over taken the person, and are moving faster than them.
There is a very special breed of fuckwit who sees being overtaken as an insult to their manhood, and will speed up the second you pass them.
More of a /101/ post, but there is a 60mph average speed check area near me, people have a tendency to sit at 55 along most of the distance, whenever I try and overtake almost everyone will suddenly speed up, leaving me stuck exactly by their side and barely able to go fast enough to overtake. At this pooint a BMW will almost invariably appear from nowhere and sit on my bumper because his 60mph is much faster than everyone elses 60mph.

>>3033
Well that's awful. If only cars came with some kind of reflective device that would let you see around those pillars.

Speedo rules are getting fucking ludicrous.
Why on earth they're allowed to be this inaccurate, I don't know.
Sure, I can see why under-reading is discouraged, but reading 60 at 48? Tell people the truth and let them deal with it, rather than randomly lying.
I'm sure it used to be +10%, -0%, and that was bad enough.

>>3036
>Tell people the truth and let them deal with it
In principle I agree with this, however, presumably this is the consequence of research showing that lots of people, possibly a majority, tend to push a bit past the limit trying to be fucking clever, and not considering the consequences.

I think my satnav tells the truth, it's always showing a ~10% lower MPH reading than my car's speedometer.

>>3036
That's the allowed tolerance - not a difference desired by the government.

>>3038
Yes.
Why permit such massive inaccuracy? Where else is a 33% wrongness considered even remotely acceptable? Weights and measures people would be justifiably pissed with such sloppiness, but road speed seems to be special and medieval measurements are fine.
(That's a snippet from the DVSA's IVA manual - I'm starting to hope that the real construction & use regulations are a bit tighter.)

>>3038>>3039

It's certainly not in the interests of most manufacturers to have their speedos towards the lower and of that range (depending on the target audience of any particular car)
If someone goes out for a test drive and the speedo says 40 when he's going at 30, he's going to go back to the showroom and say it "feels" slow and boring.

Manufacturers will set their own limits. When someone like Ford is developing their latest hatchback, I'd guess that they prbably set a requirement that the speedo should state 70mph when the car is between something like 66-68mph. A high-end German car might be calibrated to state 70mph when the car is between 69.0 and 69.5.

I don't think they can cut it quite that tight, unless they calibrate constantly against GPS. Tyre wear and stuff...
That said, calibrating speedo agaist GPS is hardly difficult, decent satnav has a speedo input, so it can keep guessing when it loses the sky.
I guess you can also make a case that changing tyres a little (but still within the manufacturer's recommended sizes - say, tall skinny winter tyres) shouldn't push the speedo into under-reading.

I've been doing driving lessons recently and it's made me wonder how one does a hill start/move off from traffic lights/engine brakes in an automatic?

All of what I just listed requires clutch control in a manual. Do you switch from brake to accelerator as fast as you can and hope you don't stall?

Sage for not strictly related.

>>3040
>If someone goes out for a test drive and the speedo says 40 when he's going at 30
How exactly would he know?

>>3042
Handbrake? Like you know you should?
Or jump from pedal to pedal - autos tend to drag forward a bit, even with no accelerator.

>>3043
the queue of held-up people forming behind?
spidey-sense tingling? 40 and 30 should feel quite different - although a new car on a test drive might well change that.

>>3045
My point is that they've no real frame of reference. Speedometers already do this and people don't notice.

>>3036
>>3039
As >>3038 said it's a tolerance range, not an expected uncertainty. Out of all the nearly 30 million cars on UK roads if even 5% give readings under the true speed and 5% of these are caught speeding in a given time period you're still looking at 10s of thousands of people who will hold the car companies responsible for their fine.

Going with >>3041, tyre wear of even a few mm on a 25cm radius wheel gives an error of about 2%. Additional uncertainty in measuring the angular speed might push the overal uncertainty up as high as 3-5%. To be 95% certain of not reading below the true speed you want to aim to read two standard errors above - 6-10% which at 60mph could be as high as a 66mph reading. Since you could just as easily read above the true speed, at 60mph you could be reading as high as 72mph within the 95% confidence range.

Oh bugger I forgot tyre wear, of course you're all right.

>>3042
In an automatic, as you have no clutch to use, you can simply have one foot on the brake pedal and the other on the accelerator and move off that way.
Of course people also need to avoid the bad habit of holding the car on the foot brake while stationary.

>>3042
I've only driven an automatic once and you could pull off just by releasing the brake without even touching the accelerator. Basically impossible to stall one.

>>3050 Basically impossible to stall one.

also impossible to stop one stalling, if it wants to. Driving a distressed automatic is a nightmare.

>>3051

I've seen bus drivers stall a few times, which I always find funny. I think it is almost certainly due to the age of the buses though, rather than driver error.

>>3049

Underinflation is an even bigger factor than tyre wear. A lot of people never bother to check their tyre pressures, leading them to drive around on very soft tyres. Underinflated tyres have a smaller effective circumference, because the tyre is constantly sagging under the weight of the vehicle.

Experienced cyclists are well aware of the issue of tyre drop. Calibrating a bicycle computer by simply measuring the tyre circumference will give an inaccurate reading, so the effective circumference is found by rolling a fully laden bicycle for a given number of wheel rotations and measuring the distance travelled. Prior to GPS, an accurate odometer was a vital navigation tool; This remains the case in rallying, where GPS is prohibited.

Was doing turn in the road today, did all my mirror checks and as I'm reversing a fucking cyclist goes behind me out of nowhere. Not even my instructor saw him but he flamed me anyway because I should be more aware or some shit.

I'm literally vertical on the road and you're gonna swerve around as I reverse. I swer to god if a cyclist crosses my path on test day resulting in a major i'm gonna crush his bike and play dumb like I lost control of the car in a panic. Fuck cyclists.

>>3054
Mate, cyclists aren't magicians. They don't appear from nowhere.

>>3044
I meant in the period between handbrake release and moving off. In a manual you'd use the bite to do that. Now I've had it explained it makes sense. I didn't think it'd have enough idle speed to pull off from a hill though.

>>3055
Oh yes they fucking well do.

>>3052

Majority of buses nowadays are automatic, which is a fucking godsend as far as I'm concerned.

How's the driving lessons going, OP?

>>3058
I think some are semi-auto; there is a gearstick but the clutch is engaged and disengaged automatically.

>>3059
>semi-auto

Christ lad it's a bus not an assault rifle.

>>3060
By definition, assault rifles are capable of both semi-automatic and automatic fire.

Anyway more info re semi-auto transmission http://www.which.co.uk/cars/choosing-a-car/car-features/automatic-gearbox-guide/automatic-gearbox-faqs/

>>3061
Technically an assault-rifle only has to have selective fire. Most models of M16 don't have a full-auto fire mode.

I really wish that 'flappy paddles' was used more often as a technical term mind. Good ol' Top Gear.

>>3061
>>3062
Oh my god fuck off gun nerds before this really gets out of hand.

>>3061

Why did you feel the need to offer this information re: assault rifles?

>>3064
I hope that anxious-lad who started this thread has been reassured.

>>3064
Why do you feel the need to question why I might want to tell someone something they might find interesting? Worst case scenario is that they're not actually interested. It's not like I'm losing my best m8 over the fucking thing.

Some days I can drive like it's second nature, but other days i fail abysmally.

In todays lesson, i almost crashed because the sun literally blinded me and i scrambled to get that thing open, the instructor went off on me, and the adrenaline rush went into my legs and they feel well sore now.

Went to do manoeuvres which I rocked last week, but this week i kept stalling and hittign the kerb, and my instructor like a robot was like "use the v shape reference when reversing" everytime, even though i insisted the reference doesnt work for me because im not a fucking manlet like you

holy shit 20 lessons in and this is still happening fuck me.

>>3084
That's perfectly normal.
Everyone had good days and bad days when they're learning, I doubt you're as bad as you think too.

You do sound like you have a bad instructor though.

>>3085
Agreed.

I also found that lessons after work were a spectacularly bad idea. I was always knackered and unable to properly concentrate or learn.

Just had my Theory yesterday, 47/50 and a rather flukey 51/75 on the Hazard Perception.

Not bad considering I only did the multiple-choice test on a free website twice, and the Hazard Perception once at 1am on the day of the test, which I failed (I believe to try and get me to buy premium access).

About 7 lessons in, two hours at a time for £30. Booked in for Feb 6th, hope the weather doesn't shit on this. 23 now, wish I'd done it years ago rather than faffing about with scooters and bikes.

>>3087

Get this if you don't already, passed first time with only a few points down on the hazard perception by just pulling an all nighter on it and listening to an audio version of the highway code on the way to the test.

YMMV.

>>3088
>>3087

Nevermind, I'm tired and drunk and honestly thought the pass mark on the hazards was around 60-70

>>3089

Aye, I should have practised properly really, not so much the actual act of percieving hazards, I often find myself stopping for cyclists and the like that even my instructor hasn't seen, but the way the test system works.

I think a lot of my scores were 3's and 4's out of 5's, as I'd click too early to get the 5 as the hazard hadn't fully "developed" (even though it's fucking obvious which one it's going to be), and by the time of my second click to notify it'd be too late to score 5.

Could do with a real re-jig to make it actually about spotting danger and not gaming the timing of clicks. The videos are ancient too, could barely see what the white blobs representin sheep in the distance where.

How do I stop stalling on the camber when doing turn in the road?

I'm really struggling with this one, every time I go over the half way point the car rolls faster and in a panic I stall. Am i meant to depress the clutch down a lot or something?

>>3092
It sounds like you're rushing the clutch or not giving it enough gas and need to work on your pedal control.

You could always, you know, ask your instructor.

>>3092

Hold the throttle steady at reasonable revs and control the speed with the clutch. When the car starts picking up speed, depress the clutch fully and focus on turning the car. If you're really nervous about the car getting away from you, cover the brake when you dip the clutch.

If you're not 100% confident in your clutch control, don't be afraid to go back to basics and spend half a lesson pottering around on an industrial estate or an empty car park. It's much easier to practice clutch control on a flat and straight bit of road, so you're only having to think about one thing.

Visualisation exercises between lessons can be really useful in cementing a manoeuvre in your mind. Sit in a quiet room with your eyes closed and imagine being in the driver's seat. Picture the road ahead of you and pantomime the actions you need to take, reciting aloud as you perform each one - "observations, signal, clutch down, into first, gentle revs, ease out the clutch...". This sort of mental practice can really reduce your level of stress while driving, as once you're no longer struggling to remember what to do, you can concentrate fully on controlling the car.

>>3092
It'll come with time. It's one of those things where you just get a feel for it in the end and don't even think about it.

I just had my first lesson and he had me out on main roads didn't stall once

But is it normal for them to hold onto the wheel to help at the start?

>>3096

Not really, my instructor started me on an empty car park to see if I could drive around okay first, I can see that him holding on to the wheel on a main road would be majorly distracting.

>>3097
He only helped while turning.

Had me up to 3rd gear doing left and right turns.

I've been driving for a year now, last week I realised that it had been quite a few months since I last stalled the car. Drove to my parents today and stalled about five bloody times at different points.

>>3099

Fun practical joke for learner drivers: when you're a passenger in a car and the driver is just about to pull away at a busy junction, say "remind me, how do you find the bite point?". Try to keep a straight face when they descend into a blind panic and forget how to operate their limbs.

New to learning to drive my instructor is very keen on me block booking lessons. Is that normal?

>>3102
Yes. If you block book he gets all the money upfront. Low risk to him, and you can't chicken out.

Just tell him to fuck off.

>>3103
Its £180 for 10 lessons or £20 a go

He seems like such a good instructor thought been doing for 30 years and really explains everything and lets me drive

>>3104
My instructor did the exact same thing. If I recall correctly I had a few at £20 each before block booking 10. If you're completely new to driving it will take a while to get up to test standard so it's not wasted unless you decide to change instructor or give up entirely.

>>3105
I am enjoying driving even in London so I won't give it up. Don't think I will change instructor either he seem like a good guy

>>3104

£180 is a good price for a block booking.

I drove with my parents a lot and had five lessons and passed with one minor. The instructor basically taught me how to pass rather than how to drive.

I miss driving. It was fun. I passed four years ago and haven't driven since, there's just been no need.

>>3108

You haven't even borrowed your Dad's car to get a 3am Chicken Legend meal? m8.

If you miss it and you still need to find an excuse to drive in the current climate where petrol is sitting around £1.09, I'm confused as to why you learned to drive in the first place. Just up sticks and go for a wee jaunt down a nice road.

>>3108
>The instructor basically taught me how to pass rather than how to drive.
I imagine this is the rule rather than the exception.

>>3110
There are enough instructors who are remarkably inept at both.

>>3109
I've actually owned two cars in my life, one I've never driven and one I just used until I passed, then my parents acquired it.

They bought both. Both were very cheap but pretty good for the money, a Renault Clio and Megane that I've now 'owned' for two years and never driven.

I learnt to drive because A) it's a pretty necessary skill and B) I didn't pay for it.

I had fun anyway. It's more the insurance cost than anything.

>>3110
I'm assuming that was specific to that poster's circumstances of being able to drive but needing to pass the test, rather than an assessment of the instructor's usual style.

>>3112

Yes, a skill so necessary you haven't needed or indeed bothered to keep it honed.

You'll be lucky not to stall out the blocks the first time you get back in one, you need to keep up the practise lad. You don't stop learning after you pass.

Test booked for Feb 18th. Already bricking it.

>>3115
Should note I'm not OP nor anyone else in this thread.

>>3115

At the risk of accidentally making it worse, I very much suggest trying your hardest to be as zen as possible about the outcome of your test. I managed to fail spectacularly twice due to unmanaged nerves. I only passed the third time because I thought I'd failed about a minute in, and resigned myself to a calm, quiet drive.

>>3117
Yeah. I also hear saying everything you do aloud really helps. I already do that when doing maneuvers so it's not too much of a jump to make.

>>3084

If your instructor is losing his temper at you when you make a mistake then he is not a good instructor. Instructors are supposed to help you iron out your driving faults and help you gain confidence. Being shouted at by an instructor who loses his temper will do the exact opposite.

I'd seriously think about changing instructors.

>>3119
Totally. Life is too short for rude teachers of any kind. I had a crap one when I learnt to drive - AVOID

>>3120

I'd third this notion. Why pay a cunt £30 an hour to be a cunt?

>>3115

Good luck. Mine is on the 16th.

Still not entirely confident though... roundabouts scare the fuck outta me - im so scared to pull out, and when i do a car comes out of nowhere, i literally don't see them coming, and i'm meant to make progress but at the same time i have to be super patient to ensure a car isnt coming, all while other lanes are moving out...

My posture is horrible, my instructor has never said anything about it but I know it's wrong. You know when you're gaming and you lean forward when you're really focusing? I do that and... it's awkward but it does the job, if you know what I mean? If i lay back it's almost like i'm gonna lose control if shit hits the fan.

Oh and can't forget dual carriageways, i reckon i fluked it every time i had to change lanes so far, couldnt even calculate what lane i was looking at in my wing mirror and just sped up and made the move. Otherwise maneuvers are fine and I stall like once a lesson now.

My instructor kept subtley using his clutch in lessons so during my test it felt completely different and I failed badly.

Drives me mad when you see idiots you wouldn't trust to post aletter pass first time.

>>3123
He was probably worried that he would have to replace it all the time.

>>3124

Perhaps starting a business where numerous unskilled drivers would be using his car was a bad idea then?

>>3123

I'm curious, how do you guys manage to find such bad instructors?

Personally, I was recommended by a friend who actually passed with his instructor, and I recommended him onto my cousin - and the circle of life continues.

Probably one of the most important careers where word of mouth is the most important marketing.

>>3123
When our lass took her second test there was a lady who drove to her test, took and failed her test and still proceeded to drive home uninstructed with two kids in the back the whole time

Penultimate lesson before my practical tomorrow morning. There's nothing I can't do properly, and for large sections of the lessons and whatnot I've been driving properly, but then I'll have 10 mins of fucking it up.

I really don't want to fail this, because it's fucking expensive.

>>3128
Good luck mate.