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|>>|| No. 15041
>Drag queens banned from performing at Free Pride Glasgow event over fears acts will offend trans people
>The organisation said in a statement that it hopes to create a safe space for all members of the LGBTQIA+ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, intersex, asexual) community, and that while the decision may "disappoint" some people "the needs of the most marginalised groups within our community come first."
>Free Pride Glasgow said: “It was felt that it [drag performance] would make some of those who were transgender or questioning their gender uncomfortable. It was felt by the group within the Trans/Non Binary Caucus that some drag performance, particularly cis drag, hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke, however transgender individuals do not feel as though their gender identity is a joke.”
Life rarely takes the piss out of itself like this. It almost sounds like the plot of a South Park episode.
|>>|| No. 17683
We've discussed this to death before as well, but some tit always brings it up assuming because we aren't discussing it right now and calling them freaks, we never have and need educating.
We had an NHS lad explain how diagnosis works and what hoops people need to jump through before they even get medication, etc, as far back as 2014. We've got a gay lad who had their BF transition and explain what that was like (she hates other trannies, apparently the ones who pass hate the ones who don't) and we've had a lass rage about trans people in women's sport making women feel marginalised because trans people dominate.
We don't really have much more ground to cover on the subject. Even the NHS lad and the gay lad with the hung wife agree that people shouldn't get to self diagnose and that it's a physiological condition which requires treatment, but equally we have at least two lads who had their perspective changed by these accounts because, if I remember right, "Who the fuck would choose this if they had another option?" The answer being, idiots following a trend and legitimate Gender Dysmorphia patients who we largely agreed are fine as long as they identify as women and not trans.
|>>|| No. 17684
So in conclusion, trans people are "idiots following a trend". Discussion is now closed.
|>>|| No. 17685
>Nobody can want that.
IIRC, Clarkson getting the sack was the only time /v/ was active over the past five years.
|>>|| No. 17686
>(she hates other trannies, apparently the ones who pass hate the ones who don't)
I've heard it the other way round. Especially now that teenagers as young as twelve get to take female hormones, you've got a generation of young trans women growing up who are virtually indistinguishable from genetic women as far as their outward appearance in daily life.
And if I am not entirely mistaken, I think there is a kind of vibe in the trans community of older trans women who didn't have the same opportunities for transition when they were young envying young trans kids of today. Because the latter get to avoid male puberty altogether, unlike older trans women who are in their 40s or 50s now, who more often than not only began physical transition when they were well into adulthood and thus had to reverse the effects of male puberty and virilisation of their body, often with somewhat limited success.
|>>|| No. 17688
>often with somewhat limited success
THEY LOOK LIKE A BLOKE IN A WIG. THAT'S WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. IT SHOULD BE OUTLAWED.
|>>|| No. 17689
I know we link to the Daily Mail all too often, but when did they start linking here?
|>>|| No. 17691
Is 'stating the obvious' now classed as being Daily Mail?
Middle aged man who transition always look like a bloke in a wig and a dress. It's as clear as day.
|>>|| No. 17702
Don't strawman me, you cunt. Some undoubtedly are. A lot of people regret fully transitioning and they are overwhelmingly people who never got a formal diagnosis of Gender Dysmorphia. I've witnessed it twice, first hand, and there are thousands of other accounts which corroborate this.
In my experience one was a man, the other a woman, so both are susceptible. They're actually friends and they both think they should have "jumped through the hoops" the NHS has in place as they would have had to go to intensive psychotherapy and whatever psychological issue was causing the Gender Dysphoria (this is the symptom, not the condition; important distinction) would have neen identified and saved them years of heartache.
What I'm saying is some "trans" people are idiots chasing a trend, you'd have to be incredibly niave to assume high profile trans people in the media doesn't influence impressionable and vulnerable people. However, the people who play by the NHS's rules and get a diagnosis via a multi-discipline case review based on a year of intensive psychological and physiological assessment are not, as that tends to weed out the crazies. At that point, transition is the only thing that alleviates their symptoms and becomes medically necessary.
Now that anyone who is new to .gs and has missed the previous cunt offs has seen this, the topic can be closed.
|>>|| No. 17703
>What I'm saying is some "trans" people are idiots chasing a trend, you'd have to be incredibly niave to assume high profile trans people in the media doesn't influence impressionable and vulnerable people.
I'm not sure somebody would actually want to change their gender unless they are indeed unhappy about what they were born as. I don't think there are tourists in transsexuality, if that is what you are implying. I'm not counting drag queens or gender benders here who push the boundaries of gender identity either for laughs or because that is how they channel their feminine side. The question is why do people take on efforts to actually transition into a different gender than the one they were born as.
This has nothing to do with impressionability. You are very likely not going to get a young boy to wear a skirt just because he saw some "cool" trans people on TV. This will without exception only happen if that young boy already has transgender tendencies.
I'm sure you don't necessarily mean it that way, but you need to tread very carefully here, because what you are saying could be misconstrued as suggesting that well-known trans people turn our children trans. And from that it's not a big leap to what some moral and/or religious conservatives are saying about gays turning children gay.
Nobody doubts that you should get proper treatment for gender dysphoria. And the goal of such treatment isn't to have your knob cut off, but to find out what causes your dysphoria, and what is right for you in order to treat it. But again, some conservatives are using the fact that some people in fact do regret transitioning as proof that transsexuality as a medical or psychiatric condition is a figment of the imagination of those godless politically correct liberals. There are even web sites where so called transition regretters become mouthpieces of conservative anti-LGBT propaganda.
I would agree with you that proper thorough evaluation and treatment of gender dysphoria in accordance with NHS standards of care is always the right way to go. But don't dismiss people who for whatever reason don't go that route as "idiots following a trend".
|>>|| No. 17704
High profile gay people hasn't increased the amount of gay people, because it's a genetically corrolated phenomenon. It's literally in your DNA. Mental health is far and away more complex than who makes your pee pee hard.
Kids don't have any concept of what is girl clothes and what is boy clothes, we imprint that on them. A boy wearing a dress is, in and of itself, harmless. What is harmful is one or both of the parents reading too much into it when if the kid is trans, it'll already know. It isn't until puberty that Dysphoria as a symptom begins though, so they don't need influenced and if the symptoms don't present they don't need to transition; If they are trans, there will be signs.
High profile trans people, people who identify as trans and just don't live their life in their chosen gender, influence parents. They also ifluence mentally ill people suffering from Gender Dysphoria for unrelated mental health reasons and instead of going to the doctor, they buy hormones online because "No, I have what the women/man on TV has too." That's an issue I'm not going to walk on eggshells over because invariably they never get treatment for what was causing their mental health problems in the first place and start speed running Sonic games and get involved in Twitter activism (I jest, but why are so many speed runners trans?). Every single fucking committee in the land has someone on it advocating for the whims of people with undiagnosed mental health problems because they are the loudest and the people who are quitely living stealth and refuse to acknowledge they were ever anything else are lumped into the same bracket and by defending them we look mental by association. Self diagnosis is damaging trans equality more than it is helping it. If conservatives could meet stealth FTMs and MTFs and talk to them, they would be questioning (like me) if the people who identify as trans even have the same condition.
|>>|| No. 17705
Probably not contributing much of value but I don't think high profile trans people turn people impressionable people without gender dysphoria "trans*", at least not in the traditional MtF/FtM way. Perhaps high profile gender-nonconforming people increase the number of people who consider themselves genderqueer, agender, etc, but surely if anything my impression is that if the high profile of anyone leads impressionable people to the idea of transitioning it's people of the opposite gender and the image of how those people live their lives. If a woman without GD wants to transition as living as a man, it's probably because being a man seems appealing rather than because being a trans* man seems appealing. It's just that you've got to go through being a trans* man to get to living as a man. And then in the social-media age, odds are you're going to broadcast that process as part of your life rather than try to keep it a secret.
I mean my sample size isn't great - some weird thoughts I had as a teenlad (before this was a widespread thing in the public imagination) about the role and perception of women in society versus the perception of men which were alleviated by overthinking how women are shown in movies, and some weirdos on the internet who tend to be furries - but i'm not making a generalised statement here. It's probably a vanishingly small and surprisingly overrepresented percentage. (I can't imagine this thought leads to any practical action. I'm definitely not saying everyone's like that, or that people not like that should be prevented from transitioning just in case. I'm not in any way qualified to speak.)
|>>|| No. 17708
>(I jest, but why are so many speed runners trans?)
"Why do I only see trans people on the Internet where there is no hierarchy of expectations to fulfill before being rewarded status and exposure"
|>>|| No. 17709
Stop being a passive aggressive coward and explain what the fuck your problem is.
|>>|| No. 17710
Except not every trans person can be stealth, either because they've already got an entire life that it would be preposterous to ask them to chuck away as if they'd been selected for witness protection, or they just don't look that good. And that guff about "high profile gays don't make people gay but transgender people make people trans" is so thin on logic and credibility and I'm flabbergasted you felt confident enough to post it.
Ha! Did what he said confuse you so much you just went all "internet tough guy"? Sort yourself out, lad.
|>>|| No. 17711
>High profile trans people, people who identify as trans and just don't live their life in their chosen gender, influence parents. They also ifluence mentally ill people suffering from Gender Dysphoria for unrelated mental health reasons and instead of going to the doctor, they buy hormones online because "No, I have what the women/man on TV has too."
Are you deliberately being thick as pig shit, lad?
First of all, at least here in the UK, I seriously doubt that many people get their hormones on the black market and import them illegally, which is pretty much the only way you will be able to obtain them outside of NHS approved treatment. Customs are also on their toes these days to intercept such shipments from abroad. Secondly, there is a very low threshold for people in this country to begin treatment in accordance with professionally approved NHS standards. Doctor's appointments, counselling as well as hormones and even surgery are almost entirely free of charge to anybody seeking treatment for gender dysphoria. Coupled with an increased openness in society about these issues, I am not sure how exactly somebody in the UK is going to transition today without proper medical and psychological help and assistance, even at a young age. Which then enables medical professionals with a great degree of certainty to tell you as somebody who may only have some sort of mild dysphoria from somebody who will really only be happy after full-on transition and surgery.
Also, gender dysphoria quite clearly describes being unhappy with one's birth gender and wanting to be the opposite gender. For your point to have any logic at all, gender dysphoria would have to be a condition where people would rather not have any gender at all instead of their birth gender, and then miraculously a famous trans person on TV would one day give them the wild idea that hey, maybe they'd rather be a woman.
Your point may have some scant validity in third world countries like Brasil or Thailand, where gender dysphoric kids are often abandoned by their parents or otherwise live in squalid economic conditions and therefore have to score estrogen on the black market with the money they earn turning tricks, without ever getting to see a doctor who would be able to evaluate professionally if that person really wants to be the opposite gender or if other factors are at play. But again, gender dysphoria by and large means not being happy with your gender and at least to some degree wanting to be the opposite gender.
But in general, I really don't know what you are on about here. Are you trying to "teach the controversy" or something?
|>>|| No. 17713
>gender is just a social construct
>changing gender requires a lifetime of dedication, and if not physical alteration the intention to.
Pick one, you can't have both.
|>>|| No. 17715
While I agree with you that gender simply being a social construct is an idea that has been led ad absurdum by such things as gender studies, I'm not sure that your way of putting it that
>changing gender requires a lifetime of dedication, and if not physical alteration the intention to.
is a description that is fair and respectful to trans persons. This isn't some sport that you become good at after a "lifetime of dedication". There is no Transsexual Premier League. "Denise here started out small just taking weekly estrogen shots, and now look at her, after a trans career going on fifteen years, she's out-transing all the rest of them."
And it has nothing to do with dedication, but with the fact that you are more or less unhappy with your birth gender and would be happier in the opposite gender. You can't honestly call it being "dedicated", instead it is your persistent unhappiness with your gender that will lead you in that direction.
>if not physical alteration the intention to.
Says who? There are trans people who decide they are happy living as a woman, which they do in everyday life, but keep their male genitals because they feel no need to go that far with it in order to be happy.
Also, if you look at Eddie Izzard, he said he came out trans over 30 years ago, and to this day, apart from wearing tacky old woman clothing lately, seems to feel no need to transition physically.
Lad, I am honestly not sure where you are really coming from with all your nonsense. Have you actually spent time informing yourself about the condition and coming to a fair and unbiased conclusion about it, or are you just willfully parroting right-wing revisionist propaganda?
|>>|| No. 17716
"the police" are a social construct
"poverty" is a social construct
"social construct" doesn't mean "not real"
|>>|| No. 17717
Fuckssake lad, really.
>"the police" are a social construct
Just go on and tell the coppers that on the way to the station when they nick you.
|>>|| No. 17718
Gender dysphoria wouldn't exist without gender.
Imagine if you will that humans are born and not classified according to their genitalia - that what is between your legs makes as much difference to your life as the colour of your eyes. A trans woman, then, would be indistinguishable from a cis man - they would just both be people who happen to have willies. And in not being treated any differently by society as a result, would mean there would be no need for the trans individual to be unhappy with their body.
This is just a thought experiment, and may not even be one hundred percent accurate as there is still a lot about gender we are still exploring, but it's generally where I come from with regards to the matter.
|>>|| No. 17720
You're still insinuating that trans persons transition in order to conform with whay may, or many not exist as social constructs. And that's just nonsense. You are not going to cure somebody of gender dysphoria and their transsexuality by abolishing gender.
Gender dysphoria and transsexuality do not mean you are unhappy with the social construct of the gender that you live in and were born as. It means you are unhappy about the physical and sexual characteristics of your body and that you feel deep within that would like to be a woman instead of a man, or vice versa.
Really, lads, do we really need to discuss over and over again things that have been firmly established?
|>>|| No. 17721
If society didn't distinguish between genders as it does, if you still had people who felt like they had the wrong genitals, it wouldn't be seen the same way, would it? It would just be another flavour of body integrity dysphoria, and nobody encourages anyone to cut off their own arm because they feel like they were born as a one-armed person, do they?
Gender is everything to do with society. I don't think that means we shouldn't support trans people, in fact, the opposite.
|>>|| No. 17722
I don't think we should support trans people. They're a fucking abomination we'd be better off without.
(A good day to you Sir!)
|>>|| No. 17723
Any reason for your thinking other than that you're scared of stuff you don't understand?
|>>|| No. 17725
>I seriously doubt that many people get their hormones on the black market and import them illegally
They aren't. You can import them from Canada perfectly legally, you just need to pay a customs charge and I know this happens because I mingle with trans people and the reason they do it is because they don't want to wait a year before the NHS prescribes them as you need to undergo an assessment and live in your chosen gender for a year before they'll even consider giving you hormones.
|>>|| No. 17729
Can we at least agree that self-diagnosed trannies are mental cases that don't need their delusions enabling?
|>>|| No. 17732
Not all of them are, just some of them and it is unfortunately those people that encourage others to circumvent medical diagnosis because they're loud and proud about it and claim Doctors are biased gatekeepers.
It's not even a trans specific issue, entitlement without merit is endemic in Gen Z and being asked to justify yourself is tantamount to bigotry. It's exactly the same as the kind of anti-intellectualism and science hating which goes on in far-right circles.
I'd be willing to agree self-diagnosed trans people are irrational about medical diagnosis and unwilling to accept they might have Gender Dysphoria for another reason that isn't being transgender, but only if we can agree to stop calling them trannies and that legit trans people deserve to be supported and ultimately left alone to live their lives.
|>>|| No. 17733
>entitlement without merit is endemic in Gen Z
I don't think it's unreasonable for them to expect the same things previous generations received without merit.
|>>|| No. 17734
I had a headache the other day, so I took some ibuprofen I bought without prescription.
Because I'm an irrational, anti-intellectual science-hater, I didn't bother to see a doctor about the cause, which could have been any number of conditions.
|>>|| No. 17735
Did you just compare popping an ibuprofen with years of gender reassignment drugs and surgery?
|>>|| No. 17736
You're not making a diagnosis. You're treating a symptom, using the means available to you without prescription. Hopefully you asked the pharmacist's advice and followed their instructions otherwise your stomach will be fucked.
|>>|| No. 17737
Can you just give it a rest? I've no truck in this fight, but it's really, really, really tedious.
|>>|| No. 17739
We're making fun of a guy for comparing gender reassignment to a headache now. Keep up.
|>>|| No. 17993
>A leading British surgeon has called for transgender women to be entitled to womb transplants so they can have their own babies.
>Late late year doctors in Brazil celebrated the birth of the world’s first baby born using a womb transplanted from a deceased donor to a woman. The healthy girl, weighing 5.6lbs, is a major breakthrough in fertility medicine. It comes just four years after the world’s first womb transplant baby from a live donor was born in Sweden in 2014.
>Surgeon Christopher Inglefield, founder of the London Transgender Clinic , says a successful uterus implant into a trans-female is achievable today.
>Mr Inglefield, a specialist in gender confirmation surgery as well as facial and body feminisation, said: “This pioneering birth is extremely important for any trans female who would like to carry her own child. Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition. There are clearly anatomical boundaries when it comes to trans women but these are problems that I believe can be surmounted and the transplant into a trans-female is essentially identical to that of a cis-female.”
>The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA) confirm there are no regulations in place to prevent a trans woman who has received a uterus transplant from having IVF treatment.
I guess logical progression is MtF trannies getting womb implants and FtM trannies having fully functioning testes attached.
|>>|| No. 17999
>Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.
"Illegal" is quite a strong word here. A transgender woman does not morph into a genetic woman sans uterus as the result of transition. There would be a great many things to consider here, and a lot of unknowns would have to be found out by sheer experiment on the real thing, which could endanger the fetus's wellbeing, and lead to disfigurement and miscarriage. It's one thing to implant a uterus into a genetic woman who was born without one, but the abdominal cavity of a post-op male to female transsexual looks quite a bit different from that of a woman without a uterus.
Best to start off with a batch of embryos that didn't ask to be born, I would reckon.
|>>|| No. 18001
I'm all for transgender rights, but I think this is just kind of a step too far.
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