>>41618

Okay, for the sake of argument I'll accept your point. The vast majority of jobs are actually very fucking easy. What does that say about our society? What does that mean for people who are stuck in gruelling jobs that pay poverty wages?

I assume you aren't arguing that they're just suckers for not whacking in an application to be lead counsel for corporate affairs at Merrill Lynch. Are you arguing that the lass who works at Greggs could get a law degree from Cambridge if she just pulled her finger out? If not, then the only conclusion I can draw is that our society unfairly denies people good jobs based on pure whim, in which case it's time for guillotines. Is that your argument? That we could all have rewarding, well-paid jobs were it not for some conspiracy to keep the working man down? That the British economy is forecast to fall behind Poland within a decade because of spite? I'm really not trying to strawman, I just can't work out the implications of your premise.

>>41619
>Are you arguing that the lass who works at Greggs could get a law degree from Cambridge if she just pulled her finger out?
Nta, but are you implying we live in some kind of perfect meritocracy? I guarantee there are people working in Greggs who could get a law degree if you teleported them to Cambridge.

>>41619

My apologies, I always assume people are intelligent enough to infer my worlview from the rest of what I say. My argument is we've set up an arbitrary, byzantine, kafkaesque set of filtering mechanisms by which to artificially keep some people stuck in place at the bottom, while other people are able to pass through.

We are well aware of the truth that both somebody has to do the shit jobs, and that there aren't enough fancy jobs to go around for everyone, so we've had to come up with an artificial scarcity kind of mechanism. Yes, there's your doctors and lawyers and whatnot, those jobs are actually hard; but they are like 5% of the job market total. The rest of them are just varying shades of Microsoft Excel proficiency.

Do you actually think how well you write your CV and covering letter has anything to do with job aptitude? No, of course it doesn't, but it's the first in a long series of hoops we as a society have decided you must jump through in order to qualify even for the toilet cleaner position.

When everybody has a degree, nobody has a degree. And that's the system working as intended.

>>41621
>I always assume people are intelligent enough to infer my worlview from the rest of what I say.
Other people's intelligence doesn't come in to it - that's not a realistic thing for anyone to infer from so little information - that's your failure to communicate.

>>41606
>The lads who are out setting fire to Shoezone aren't going to become software developers or management consultants

I think the point you are making doesn't really mean a lot. In my experience, more half the kids from broken homes (abusive or addicted parents on a low income), even if some of them behaved like thugs (by no means most of them, but some did), got a grip on life and became serious about making something of their life. What I'm saying is, some of the lads I'm talking about probably would have been out setting fire to Shoezone if they'd had the opportunity to. Also, and this is probably less respectable towards your point, why is this "violent white people are just irredeemably thick" argument never applied to ethnic minorities who engage in similar behaviour with the same amount of scrutiny? (Maybe you could argue the previous government thought that to be fair).

>>41623

>Also, and this is probably less respectable towards your point, why is this "violent white people are just irredeemably thick" argument never applied to ethnic minorities who engage in similar behaviour with the same amount of scrutiny?

I would apply the same argument. I'd also point at this chart.

If you got drones that dispersed clouds of something like sarin, and flew them over the crowds at these riots, would anything of value be lost?

>>41625

>would anything of value be lost?


Yes, our reputation as a country that doesn't do that sort of thing.

This isn't Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack

>>41625
We would also lose some of our valuable sarin.

>>41625

Get on Telegram and spread a rumour that they're moving asylum seekers into Sellafield.

>>41574
It's only been a month and there's already race riots. I kind of wish Rishi was back now :(

Apparently it's all gonna kick off today.

>>41630
Am I the only person left with a job in this country? I'm pretty sure they've cracked down on those mouse wiggling devices.

Anyway, best not commit any crimes over the next week, apparently the police have all been called in to work 12 hour shifts so you'd better watch what you say to me online.

The flashpoint in Nottingham is meant to be an old woman's house in the upmarket West Bridgford area. The old woman's son uses her house as the registered address for his freelance immigration business. So could be hundreds of fash and antifash clashing in one of the nicer parts of city area.

>>41632
Allegedly it's going to kick off in Wakey this weekend and it'll either be at Cedar Court Hotel, Holiday Inn or Trinity Walk shopping centre. It's also the pride parade this weekend.

A British businesswoman accused of being the first person to post false information that the Southport stabbings suspect was an asylum seeker who had arrived in Britain by boat says she is 'mortified' by what happened.

Just hours after three girls were murdered at a Taylor Swift dance workshop last Monday, Bonnie Spofforth posted on X the wrong name of the boy accused of carrying out the attacks. Before the victims had been identified, Mrs Spofforth, 55, wrote at 4.49pm: 'Ali Al-Shakati was the suspect, he was an asylum seeker who came to the UK by boat last year and was on an MI6 watch list. If this is true, then all hell is about to break loose.'

The false information, including what is believed to be a fictitious name, spread rapidly around social media, sparking far-right anti-immigration riots across the country.

Responding to the mass rioting that took place in response to the incorrect information spread on social media, Mrs Spofforth told MailOnline: 'I'm mortified that I'm being accused of this. I did not make it up. I first received this information from somebody in Southport.' She added: 'My post had nothing to do with the violence we've seen across the country. But I acknowledge that it may have been the source for the information used by a Russian news website.'

Ms Spofforth is a prominent campaigner against lockdowns and net-zero climate schemes and had tens of thousands of followers on X before she deleted her account. MailOnline was able to establish her identify after conducting an extensive trawl of X posts featuring the name Ali Al-Shakti which showed that hers was the first. When challenged about this, Ms Spofforth claimed that she had seen someone else post the name on X but was unable to provide any evidence.

Her post was deleted an hour after it appeared but by then the false information was widely repeated by far-right social media activists such as Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate. It is also believed to have been used as a source for an article published by the Russian-linked Channel 3 Now website which was extensively retweeted. Channel 3 Now later removed the article and apologised.

Ms Spofforth told The Times: 'Yes I did [post it] … It was a spur of the moment ridiculous thing to do, which has literally destroyed me. It was just a mistake. I did a really stupid stupid thing, I copied and pasted it from what I saw, and I added the line 'if this is true.'

https://archive.is/Ya18t

Hmmmm.

Three people turned up in Brighton.

Since this all started 3 East Asian women have caught a cold or found themselves facing a sudden work deadline when I was about to finalise a date. They all suggested that this weekend might be better for them but as the riots have progressed they have all bar one stopped responding.

So I guess that I'm a left-wing bongo-enricher now.

>>41634
Imagine if it turns out that she's actually an asylum seeker.

>>41635
Does it count as being kettled by the police if they're the only thing stopping you having your head kicked in?

>>41637
You should write to your local paper about your plight, if you still have one.

Does 'far-right riots' include the eskimo counter-rioting? I've seen little to no mention of it in the news otherwise, but plenty of videos across social media. I assume it's actually happening, right, and not old footage of past incidents?

>Sir Keir Starmer to review social media laws in wake of riots

Imagine if tech companies just go "well you' know what, no" and we get the old internet back before normal people started using it along with a separate 'Britnet' similar to teletext for all the invasive bullshit we have to use.

>>41649
I read a story a couple days ago about a counter-protest where the protest didn't turn up so they just decided to riot themselves but it's impossible to search for anything at the moment.

>>41638
> Does it count as being kettled by the police if they're the only thing stopping you having your head kicked in?

No, that's being protected and the police doing what I hope they would. Kettling is surrounding protestors and then denying them basic amenities like going for a piss or shit in privacy when that would be quite safe, for example.

>>41650

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42902684

>>41651
Yeah, I know. I wasn't being entirely serious.

Now that the fire seems to be out:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80c4fded915d74e6230579/The_Casey_Review_Report.pdf

>>41650
>I read a story a couple days ago about a counter-protest where the protest didn't turn up so they just decided to riot themselves but it's impossible to search for anything at the moment.
If you'd travelled some way to get there, you'd want to get your money's worth too.

I can't believe he's only 25 years old. It's funny how just about everyone sent down for rioting has previous convictions.

>>41676
My girlfriend was defending him.

When he was 19 he walked into a police station to hand over four knives. He was the ringleader of a plan to attack a European shop or takeaway and kill all Europeans. He got off with 30 days community service including Prevent training, because he was a literal autistic retard. Also the judge said there was little chance he could have pulled off the crime successfully anyway so no harm done.

This time he attacked the car of immigrants, looted, destroyed shit. He had an opportunity to turn his life around but he chose to continue being scum. My girlfriend says he's a victim because he's autistic and was probably groomed into this mindset. At what point do we stop making excuses for retards?

I'm autistic myself and I know it's not an excuse for if I chose to commit a racist assault.

>>41677

I'm not going to defend anyone for rioting, but I do think we should reflect on the characteristics of the people who have been convicted. Many parts of the media have been portraying the riots as having been committed by hardened far-right extremists; while I'm sure that they were key in instigating the riots, they seem to make up a fairly small proportion of the people who've ended up in court. You've just got to look at the state of the people in their mugshots, the number of them who gave their address as "no fixed abode", the number of them who mentioned drug addiction or alcoholism in mitigation. Unless we address the underlying factors that have created so many people with broken lives and nothing to lose, we're just storing up trouble.

>>41677
Wouldn't the man who killed Jo Cox fit a similar description? How does your girlfriend feel about him?

>>41677
I'm not entirely certain if I believe this myself, but I'm starting to think I do: maybe we can't use mental differences to excuse crimes, because you have to be mental to commit a crime anyway. It's never the cleverest or rightest decision. Therefore, every criminal is either crazy or retarded by definition. The more we help people with their problems, the fewer crimes we will see, because every crime ever committed has some kind of motivating excuse behind it to replace the default explanation of "evil". If you find a crime where you think otherwise, you just haven't looked at it closely or sympathetically enough. Maybe, just maybe, evil as we understand it doesn't exist at all. What this would mean for the justice system, I'm not willing to wonder about.

>>41680
>we can't use mental differences to excuse crimes

I wouldn't say being labelled as a violent mentalist is a get out of jail free card. If we had a working system of justice and healthcare it's a designation that can put you in a straightjacket forever and it's actually a very hard bar to reach where, in a perfect world, you'd get treatment as part of your rehabilitation into society anyway.

Imagine a dystopia where we had a functional society - you'd murder your neighbour with a hammer and instead of it being an oopsie-woopsie where you spend a year in prison before being released to free up space, you spend the rest of your life in a rubber room watching Bluey while on a cocktail of powerful drugs and being surrounded by unkempt and frustrated mental women.

>>41680

>It's never the cleverest or rightest decision.

It is at least sometimes a rational decision.

It's easiest to see in white collar crime - there are an awful lot of people who would happily take the risk of doing 18 months in prison if there's a good chance they could get away with millions.

Some career criminals make the perfectly logical calculation that they can commit hundreds of offences for every one that they get caught for, making the risk of imprisonment a tolerable cost of doing business. Being a burglar or a credit card fraudster might be a rational choice of employment for someone with few other options.

Most people who commit crime aren't particularly rational, but that's mainly because the threat of punishment deters rational people from committing crime most of the time. I think that's the basic paradox at the heart of modern justice - almost by definition, most of the people in prison are people who are undeterred by the threat of imprisonment.

There is some reasonably low-hanging fruit if we want to reduce crime. We've got a large population of highly dysfunctional people who are constantly in and out of prison, many of whom could be dealt with far more cost-effectively with a mix of drug treatment, mental health treatment, probation and social work; the effects of austerity on this population are obvious and dramatic. A prison bed costs about £50,000 a year and there's a lot you could do to change someone's life with that kind of money.

That sort of patter often sounds a bit wishy-washy, but it's starkly visceral in the case of someone like Valdo Calocane. The three murders he committed could have been prevented, but an incredibly high-risk person was allowed to slip through the cracks due to a lack of resources. There are thousands of ticking time bombs like Calocane still out in the world and most of them will be completely ignored by the system until they do something too awful to ignore.

>>41682

>you spend the rest of your life in a rubber room watching Bluey while on a cocktail of powerful drugs and being surrounded by unkempt and frustrated mental women.

Don't threaten me with a good time.

>>41682
we aren't talking about what the state actually does we are talking about the thoughts and opinions of the terminally online mumsnet poster who will swing between hangings too good for them and they didn't mean it they can't help it, depending on what the meme they are looking at told them to think.

>>41685
Why are you doing that? That seems like a waste of time.

>>41686
A meme told him they exist and are a threat to his way of life.

>>41687

Hanging is too good for em!

>German authorities have identified the man who confessed to a mass knife attack as a suspected member of the Islamic State group (IS).

>Prosecutors named the man as Issa Al H, omitting his surname because of Germany's privacy laws. The 26-year-old had given himself up and admitted to the stabbings, police said. Three people were killed and another eight injured during Friday's attack in the city of Solingen, during a festival to celebrate its 650-year history.

>He is a Syrian national, police and prosecutors confirmed, and German media reported that he arrived in the country in December 2022, after leaving war-torn Syria. Bild reported that special task force (SEK) officers stormed a refugee centre that the suspect was associated with, detaining another person there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crlr2z23ykno

Why did it kick off over here after the Southport stabbings but not in Germany after a similar event?

>>41713

Why are the Germans much more averse to displays of reactionary right-wing violence, I wonder.

It's not like the sentiment isn't there. They just know better than to publicly out themselves given that it is taken much more seriously.

>>41714

One thing you can't say about the Germans is that they haven't learned from history at all. Even close to 80 years after the end of the Third Reich, right-wing extremism is still taken very seriously and right-wing movements and factions are under close scrutiny by federal and state authorities. There are a plethora of laws against right-wing speech (technically, those laws also apply to left-wing extremism or any other extremism that threatens the German Constitution). The public display of Nazi symbols or even symbols reminiscient of it, like swastikas, the Third Reich flag and the pre-Nazi era Imperial Flag, is a criminal offence in the country's Penal Code.

What it hasn't been able to prevent is the growing undercurrent of right-wing extremism among the general poulation especially in the former East. It's no longer just the underground. With regional elections looming in the two Eastern states of Saxony and Thuringia this autumn, the right-wing AfD, while far from looking at an absolute majority in the polls, could end up being the party with the most seats in both states, at around 30 percent. Which is more than a bit unsettling, although so far in similar cases in other parts of the country, the other parties have been able to form coalition governments, thus precluding the AfD from attaining true power.

So there's two ways of looking at it. One is that the German government has many more safeguards at its disposal against a right-wing resurgence than a lot of other Western democracies, but the other way of looking at it is that especially in the eastern, formerly communist parts of the country, quite ordinary people are increasingly buying into right-wing propaganda in concerning numbers, with real consequences.

>>41714
The economy is stronger and dispersed while Germans are in general much more submissive to the authorities. You can contrast it with France.

>>41717
I think this thesis collapses once you notice that the most repressive side of Germany for the far-right has always been in the East for reasons and the far-right has seen success across Europe. The issue is that it's also the side of Germany dominated by useful idiots for the Soviet and then Russian regime that evolved into more of an undercurrent of general facey-tier politics than the rest of Germany.

The obvious proof of this is that Wagenknecht, a far-left ideologue, is polling in double digits and uses the rhetoric we've come to recognise of the latte-sippers dictating bollocks for the rest of the country. I'm sure Wagenknecht would be opposed to ULEZ expansion despite being on the far-left.

>Which is more than a bit unsettling, although so far in similar cases in other parts of the country, the other parties have been able to form coalition governments, thus precluding the AfD from attaining true power.

This is a dumb strategy that's already failed. When the other parties unite against the far-right then they become the de-facto opposition that can claim the system is rigged while taking pot-shots from the side-lines.

>>41718

>This is a dumb strategy that's already failed. When the other parties unite against the far-right then they become the de-facto opposition that can claim the system is rigged while taking pot-shots from the side-lines.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that the AfD still won't be a part of government. They can moan about it, falsely, until they're as blue in the face as their chosen party colour, but as far as forming a government after an election, they will still be the de facto opposition, no matter how haphazardly the other parties join an anti-AfD coalition government.

>>41719
And then the next election comes.

>>41718

>while Germans are in general much more submissive to the authorities

You could say that two authoritarian regimes will do that to you, but it goes back further than that. To the Kingdom of Prussia, which at its peak comprised the entire northern half of the German Reich in the early 20th century, and was the most populous part of it, and almost one and a half times larger by area than the present-day UK. On top of a kind of blanket militarism permeating through all of society which held that true citizenship could only be achieved through military service (almost in a Starship Troopers kind of way), Prussia had a culture of rigid government and public institutions that was unmatched in non-autocratic countries of Europe at the time, and which demanded quite strict obedience of its citizens. The Germans called it the Obrigkeitsstaat, "Obrigkeit" meaning something like the powers that be. It's not that you had no recourse against government or administrative decisions. Prussia wasn't that authoritarian, although a monarchy with few democratic institutions. But as a good citizen, you were simply expected to follow and obey the authorities.

It has now been over 75 years since the formal dissolution of Prussia in 1946, after existing for almost 250 years, and Germans enjoy all the freedoms of people in other European democracies, but that whole culture of the Obrigkeitsstaat is still rooted deeply in the country and its citizens, and you run into remnants of it everywhere in daily life.

>>41717

>Even close to 80 years after the end of the Third Reich, right-wing extremism is still taken very seriously and right-wing movements and factions are under close scrutiny by federal and state authorities.

Indeed, whereas we applied that to the left instead.

>>41722

Because lefties are communists, and too many people in this country give the Right too much of a benefit of doubt that they're just Conservatives gone a bit daft.

>The teenager accused of murdering three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an al-Qaeda training manual.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo

So does this mean the rioters kind of had a point, a bit like the Muslamic Ray Guns being right about Rotherham?

>>41878
Who among us can honestly say we haven't ourselves ever read a guide to committing terrorism? I have one saved but it's boring and was written by the US Army so that makes it okay.

>>41878
Not everyone who downloads a copy of The Anarchist Cookbook is an anarchist. If he is ultimately an apolitical murder-enjoyer it doesn't seem odd to me that he'd look to unabummer training documents for inspiration. People with political motives for their crimes tend to mention it at some point, otherwise why bother? But whatever, none of this matters to the common garden Anglo-troglodyte, who are fast forming into a vanguard for British MAGAism.