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>> No. 89591 Anonymous
28th April 2020
Tuesday 8:58 am
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10 years ago today, lads. The day Cyclops threw the election.

It was a simpler time, a better time.
Expand all images.
>> No. 89600 Anonymous
28th April 2020
Tuesday 7:17 pm
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And he would have gotten away with it if it weren't for that meddling bigot.
>> No. 89601 Anonymous
28th April 2020
Tuesday 7:30 pm
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>>89600
We're a nation of bigots, though. Just don't point that out or people get uppity.
>> No. 89603 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 10:54 am
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This is one thing I never got - most people in this country are racist thickos and proud of it - but if someone points it out they get offended. Why?
>> No. 89604 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 11:25 am
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>>89603
It's the "legitimate concerns." People don't think they are racist, with a fair bit of this pushback resulting from those who have been all too eager to shout dolphin rape at people who aren't actually being racist; the boy who cried racist.

There are upsides and downsides of mass immigration, with the downsides most keenest felt by those at the bottom end of society. What should have happened is a sensible discussion around immigration, addressing what some see as inconvenient facts but explaining how they fit into the wider picture.

Instead we had one side who should have been extolling the benefits of immigration not addressing the inconvenient facts and either ignoring these people or sneering at them. This created a vacuum which Are Nige was able to exploit; the other side were their own worst enemy and actively pushed people his way. He was able to listen to these "legitimate concerns", hook people in and switch them off completely to other sources of information. From there on in he could deeply entrench his views and before you know it Sharon from Hull who had a mild gripe about the number of Lithuanian shops in her area has gone full blown mental, to the point that she's now raving on Facey about how the MSM are trying to hide the truth about 5G masts.

Plus if you pick up the paper and they're raving about immigrants then that becomes your new normal. If it's in the news then it can't be racist?
>> No. 89605 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 11:28 am
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Also, white people are very sensitive. It's fine giving black women derogatory names like Shaniqua or Laquisha for decades, but brand a middle aged white woman Karen for five minutes and they can't handle it.
>> No. 89606 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 11:33 am
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>>89604
You really buried the lead there, lad.
>> No. 89607 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 11:43 am
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>>89603
It's not a new problem, nor is it exclusively ours.
>> No. 89608 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 12:22 pm
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>>89606
Not really. One of the key reasons people don't like to be called racist is because, in their eyes, the people calling them racist have been thoroughly discredited and are not to be trusted or listened to.
>> No. 89609 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 1:33 pm
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>>89603
You have to make people laugh when telling the truth, otherwise they get angry.
>> No. 89610 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 2:28 pm
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>>89607
I have a feeling that placard said "Intergrates."
In any case, I have only a vague and nebulous notion as to what is actually meant.
>> No. 89611 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 2:29 pm
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>>89610
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_United_States

Come on, mate, keep up.
>> No. 89612 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 2:37 pm
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>>89611
I was taking umbrage at the placard. I'm reasonably aware of how fucking awful Jim Crow era America was as far as racial segregation goes.
It did take linking that to make the connection though, maybe because I aren't pathologically obsessed with race as some people were and still are.
>> No. 89613 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 2:59 pm
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>>89591
Maybe it was a simpler, better time. Seems like a whole world away though.
>> No. 89615 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 3:26 pm
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>>89604

>There are upsides and downsides of mass immigration, with the downsides most keenest felt by those at the bottom end of society. What should have happened is a sensible discussion around immigration, addressing what some see as inconvenient facts but explaining how they fit into the wider picture.

I hear this a lot from well meaning liberal leftie types. But it's still a pretty dishonest assessment- The fact is it doesn't matter how well you explain these "inconvenient facts", or how open of a "discussion" you have about it. What we don't want to admit is that these racist thickos, even if they weren't exactly articulate, understood perfectly well.

Those on the more liberal end of the spectrum are only hoping that explaining these downsides more frankly and honestly would somehow make people think "Oh, well, it's actually fine, I don't mind all that downward pressure on wages at all. It's worth giving up my prospects and the prospects of my son's generation for the multicultural utopia we could create."

That absolutely wouldn't be the case. The only acceptable solution for the lower classes was to limit immigration, simple as. While the Liberal Metropolitan Elite (and the wider middle classes) were never going to give that up, because they're the people who benefit from an economy with plenty of cheap Polish slave labour. It's absolutely inconceivable to them how Baz from Scunthorpe doesn't give a fuck about all the "economic benefits" of immigration, because it completely ignore the fact that the working class never see those benefits.

Both sides simply have opposing interests. There was no way you could please both sides. Even now, Brexit+4, we can't face up to it.
>> No. 89618 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 3:46 pm
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>>89615
Leave won by about 3.8%. An open and sensible discussion on immigration starting about 20 years ago wouldn't have changed everyone's minds, but it clearly would have had a much better impact than insulting and marginalising these people; it could have been significant enough for Remain to win and, more importantly, resulted in discourse these days being far less polarised rather than a massive shitshow.

People mostly wanted to feel that they were being listened to.
>> No. 89619 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 4:41 pm
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>>89618
>I don't hate tall people but I distrust them, I think people over 6'2" should be allowed access to basic public services but only so long as they know their place behind any and all people who are under 6'2"
>I will knowingly destroy the country with a smug grin on my face if I don't get what I want
>Listen to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(A good day to you Sir!)
>> No. 89620 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 4:59 pm
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>>89619
The point is if you nip it in the bud you're likely to stop a mild gripe about the Poles who keep drinking on the corner of the street manifesting into much worse. Marginalising these people so they feel they can only turn to the likes of Britain First, absorbing all their bollocks on the way and getting dragged much further to the right, is not a better option.

I fail to see how attempting to openly communicate with people can have made the country a worse state than ignoring and insulting them.
>> No. 89621 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 5:20 pm
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>>89620
Ok, my previous reply was very sarcastic and unhelpful but you seem like a decent chap engaging honestly so I'm going to reciprocate the courtesy you are showing.


>The point is if you nip it in the bud you're likely to stop a mild gripe about the Poles who keep drinking on the corner of the street manifesting into much worse.

There's a chance, certainly. But "likely"? I don't think so. In general if you coddle someone who is being unreasonable they get worse, not better. This isn't a situation that could have been "nipped", all the major parties moved at least a little to the right on immigration over the 2000s and early 2010s, it didn't work.

>Marginalising these people so they feel they can only turn to the likes of Britain First, absorbing all their bollocks on the way and getting dragged much further to the right, is not a better option.

I actually agree with you to a certain extent. But people who feel "marginalised" solely for not being the most important person in the room at all times cannot be met in the middle. If you'll pardon the expression "Give them Sudetenland, they'll take all of Czechoslovakia", it's that easy. Aresholes only understand one thing.
>> No. 89622 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 6:04 pm
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>>89621

But which side is really the unreasonable one who thought they were the most important person in the room? The working class people who wanted less immigration because it was threatening their livelihoods, or the middle class people who wanted more immigration because it means they can have cheaper plumbers?

Neither have the moral high ground. The easily debunked muslamic rayguns and erosion of social cohesion arguments are just poorly masked xenophobia; but likewise the typical humanitarian arguments used in favour of immigration are really just a disingenuous smokescreen for the truth, which is that we need cheap labour or our businesses will have lower profit margins.

We just live in a country that hates poor people above almost anything else. Even poor people themselves hate the worse off than them. So I'm inclined to lean towards their side, myself. Brexit will never give them what they had hoped it would, obviously, but truly I think they're the ones with the least blame for it all.
>> No. 89623 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 6:08 pm
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>>89622
>The easily debunked muslamic rayguns and erosion of social cohesion arguments are just poorly masked xenophobia

?
>> No. 89624 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 6:17 pm
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>>89623

As in, a racist who's up in arms about the crimes brown-eyed people have committed is still a racist, whether they were right or not. There's a lot of dolphin rape involved. It would be foolish to deny that, and I'm the one arguing in their defence.
>> No. 89625 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 6:23 pm
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>>89624
Getting up in arms about the widespread abuse of children by grooming gangs of Asian men means you're a racist?
>> No. 89626 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 6:31 pm
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>>89625
Not him but it's more about the widespread abuse of children by people who aren't scary brown men that nobody even pretends to give a fuck about, I think.
>> No. 89627 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 6:37 pm
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>>89626
That's because street grooming is almost exclusively the preserve of Asian men whereas we're used to the good old fashioned paedophile ring. Even when they're diddling they've got to do it differently instead of integrating.

I guess it's a bit like when people hate benefit scroungers far more than tax dodgers; even though the latter is far more harmful to the economy it's less in people's faces.

That said, given the prevalence of chav paedo hunters I wouldn't say that they don't get up in arms about white kiddie fiddlers. You should join a local Facebook group when there's rumours a carpet-bagger has moved to the area.
>> No. 89628 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 6:48 pm
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>>89627
>That's because street grooming is almost exclusively the preserve of Asian men whereas we're used to the good old fashioned paedophile ring. Even when they're diddling they've got to do it differently instead of integrating.

>I guess it's a bit like when people hate benefit scroungers far more than tax dodgers; even though the latter is far more harmful to the economy it's less in people's faces.

Yes. This is exactly what I'm getting at.

>That said, given the prevalence of chav paedo hunters I wouldn't say that they don't get up in arms about white kiddie fiddlers. You should join a local Facebook group when there's rumours a carpet-bagger has moved to the area.

I was talking more along the lines of voting in a prime minister who was on the record saying "let's not investigate historic sex abuse cases" and winking to the camera less than 6 months before he won an historic majority in a general election.
>> No. 89629 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 7:48 pm
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>>89627

>I guess it's a bit like when people hate benefit scroungers far more than tax dodgers; even though the latter is far more harmful to the economy it's less in people's faces.

That's just classism.
>> No. 89630 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 7:49 pm
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>>89628

>a prime minister who was on the record saying "let's not investigate historic sex abuse cases" and winking to the camera

Politics is so fucking far gone at this point that I really don't know if this happened verbatim or if you're just paraphrasing a more subtle statement.
>> No. 89631 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 7:54 pm
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>>89610
There's also the other placard that apparently spells KKK with four Ks.
>> No. 89632 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 7:55 pm
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>>89615
>"Oh, well, it's actually fine, I don't mind all that downward pressure on wages at all. It's worth giving up my prospects and the prospects of my son's generation for the multicultural utopia we could create."
You might have a point if any part of that was even remotely true.
>> No. 89633 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 7:57 pm
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>>89630
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/boris-johnson-historial-child-abuse-investigation/
>> No. 89634 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 7:58 pm
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>>89632

Does immigration empirically have an effect on wages?
>> No. 89635 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 8:32 pm
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>>89634
As I recall, it's negligible, and outweighed by pretty much every other contributing factor to wage movement. It required something like a 10% increase in the overall share (i.e. proportion, not number) in a sector to have a relative impact of around 1% on the wages in that sector.
>> No. 89636 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 9:10 pm
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>>89635
>>89634
>>89632

>Growing skills shortages in the UK jobs market are starting to drive up wages, according to a survey, as more companies across the country report difficulties finding staff.

https://theguardian.com/money/2019/feb/18/skills-shortages-uk-pushing-workers-pay-survey-brexit

>Employers have had to ­increase wages and offer more benefits to compete for ­British workers as European migrants shun the UK in the run-up to Brexit.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/05/13/wages-rise-attract-british-workers2/

>Average pay in Britain is rising at the fastest rate in nearly a decade, amid a record fall in the number of eastern European workers ahead of Brexit and business complaints about a shortage of qualified staff.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1NI115

>A fall in people coming to Britain from other European Union countries has aggravated a shortage of workers and forced employers to raise starting salaries at the fastest pace in nearly two years during August

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-jobs/uk-employers-raise-pay-as-brexit-skills-shortage-bites-recruiters-idUKKCN1BJ005

>Construction pay rises as EU workers weigh up leaving UK

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/24/construction-pay-rises-as-eu-workers-weigh-up-leaving-uk-survey-brexit
>> No. 89637 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 9:21 pm
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>>89634
Research has found the effect of immigration on the average wage to be small, but it isn't evenly distributed so unskilled workers are the worst affected.
>> No. 89638 Anonymous
30th April 2020
Thursday 9:52 pm
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>>89636
Your anecdata is not an indication of cheap labour leaving, but an indication of a labour shortage.
>> No. 89639 Anonymous
1st May 2020
Friday 12:35 am
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>>89638
Labour shortages are notoriously unrelated to labour leaving the country, yes.
>> No. 89640 Anonymous
1st May 2020
Friday 1:47 am
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>>89639
Nice strawman there, lad. I'll bet you're always fending off crows at parties.
>> No. 89655 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 12:34 pm
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>>89640
What a truly odd response. You don't know what a strawman is, do you?
>> No. 89656 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 12:40 pm
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>>89655
Something that attracts crows, apparently.
>> No. 89661 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 3:05 pm
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>>89615
It's always seemed odd to me how nobody's tried to break through this by offering to spend more money.*
If we accept that immigration brings economic benefits and that those benefits flow primarily to the top of society, why not just redistribute them back downwards again? Especially to schools, hospitals and housing - the services that naturally suffer in quality as more people use them. People aren't economic calculating units so the politics behind selling the idea aren't perfect, but imagine if someone said something like: Okay, your wages will fall because of immigration, but then we'll give you more tax credits (paid for by those benefiting from cheap labour), so actually you'll be better off overall.

But then you might quickly get away from a discussion on migration towards a discussion about the influence of the rich and powerful. A situation that's a win-win for poor locals and for poor immigrants at the expense of the better off is a situation that'd probably get the ABC1s voting UKIP.
*Okay, Labour is simultaneously seen as the "more immigrants" and the "spend more" party, but neither of those positions are tied together into a single narrative.
>> No. 89662 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 3:42 pm
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>>89661
> If we accept that immigration brings economic benefits and that those benefits flow primarily to the top of society

I'm not completely in the land of the living yet, but that seems to be jumping form to 8 to 80, somehow.
>> No. 89664 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 4:00 pm
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>>89661
What is often overlooked is that the main concern with immigration in this country is social rather than economic.

People do not like change, especially one foisted on them with no say on the matter and if they see it as a change for the worse. If you look at the Leave vote then it was in areas that are still extremely white British but incurred proportionately the greatest demographic changes over the past 20 years or so. People are suspicious of those who were different to them, which of course the press were happy to pour fuel on. It's the slow drip of cultural differences which are frowned upon, even things as minor as a Polak taking carp from a lake to eat at home can make the national press. They're an easy scapegoat, but things like the mass diddling doesn't help.

I'm very open minded but I find myself more guarded and wary around people from certain cultures with more backwards views; the only times I've experienced homophobia in the few years has been from Muslims. If you live in a place where family neighbourhoods have been converted into street upon street of shabby HMOs to accommodate an influx of people who are different to you, often coming in large enough numbers to form enclaves rather than having to integrate, then I can see why people want things back the way they were.

Nobody sells the social benefits of immigration. All you get is a half-arsed "think about all the different kinds of takeaway!" or something about the NHS.
>> No. 89665 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 4:10 pm
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>>89664

>If you look at the Leave vote then it was in areas that are still extremely white British but incurred proportionately the greatest demographic changes over the past 20 years or so.

That's only half true. Lincolnshire and the West Midlands did vote strongly to leave, but so did Cornwall and Cumbria. Nearly every major city voted strongly in favour of remain, regardless of the level of immigration. The correlation between levels of immigration and the leave vote share is far weaker than the correlations with age and level of education - young and highly educated people overwhelmingly voted remain, old and uneducated people overwhelmingly voted leave.
>> No. 89666 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 4:12 pm
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>>89661
I've so far avoided the usual cunt-off as there's no commonly agreed upon facts* but I'd agree with the broad thrust of your idea. I'd only go further and change tax credits to hiking up the minimum wage while improving baseline workplace conditions so that Sports Direct etc. can't exploit immigrant labour. Probably throw in some loans for productivity upgrades as well but that's something the government has started doing. I'm very much against the kind of indirect state subsidy that tax credits create or focusing on mitigation over the long-term but I suspect you're not married to this.

>But then you might quickly get away from a discussion on migration towards a discussion about the influence of the rich and powerful.

How about we discuss about bad policy first. Many parts of the country and economy have been neglected for decades with their political voice marginalised by a far wider group than the stereotypical fat-cats. I think Labour is especially at fault with this as they surrendered their core working class vote to pander to metropolitan shithouses but the Tories have also been at fault for falling asleep on issues of how we invest in the UK economy.

It's sad that it always comes down this but yeah, most the country could get behind some form of social-conservatism/national-socialism. Unfortunately politics is divided between the slimy crooks and the bongo-enriching (who are also crooks).

*You know who you are.
>> No. 89667 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 4:28 pm
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>>89665
>That's only half true.

No. It's entirely true.

Consider the percentage-change in migrant numbers, rather than the total headcount, and the opposite pattern emerges (chart 2). Where foreign-born populations increased by more than 200% between 2001 and 2014, a Leave vote followed in 94% of cases. The proportion of migrants may be relatively low in Leave strongholds such as Boston, in Lincolnshire (where 15.4% of the population are foreign-born). But it has grown precipitously in a short period of time (by 479%, in Boston’s case). High levels of immigration don’t seem to bother Britons; high rates of change do.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2016/07/08/britains-immigration-paradox

People don't like change.
>> No. 89670 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 5:35 pm
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>>89664
I don't know how far I'd go in distinguishing the two. There is a subset of the population that wider globalisation has either had a negative impact on or only slightly positive (depending on who you ask) and the whole topic would be less scary if the natives could afford to have large families on a comfortable lifestyle.

Anyway, just imagine how nice everyone would be if we were all absolutely minted. Lots of new takeaways probably would balance it in that kind of scenario.

>even things as minor as a Polak taking carp from a lake to eat at home can make the national press

I'm still angry about this. The cunts near where I live went spearfishing and cleaned out the whole lake in a night - a lake that had been stocked with carp since the days of Rome. That's not minor, it's criminal subset of an otherwise pretty great group of immigrants who ruined it for everyone.

Edit: I'd post the elephant graph but I keep getting a 500 error
>> No. 89671 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 7:43 pm
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>>89667

Fuck me, in what way is 15% foreign born a low percentage?

I think the pursuit of immigration to fill skill gaps is short sighted and disrespectful to the native population. It's an issue that's defended in the name of both the economy and human rights when it's mostly about feeding the growth mindset and pushing population decline or leveling ever further under the rug. It's a very lumpy rug by now.

I can't see anyone willing to admit our population needs to decline and we need a society that allows this. Importing people to our corner of the world keeps our population growing and brings people in to our mega consumptionist society, it's bad in multiple levels.

Especially going forward it's worth thinking about food and water security for our population that's already here, one of the many climate issues to be tackled involves fresh water supply and it's the wise thing to keep our demand at a more manageable level by stopping population growth.

I guess I just needed to say that, nobody really listens anyway.
>> No. 89672 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 7:46 pm
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What the fuck is wrong with this site. ?Ugh.
>> No. 89673 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 8:58 pm
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>>89672
Nothing.
>> No. 89674 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 9:33 pm
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>>89672>>89673
Looks like a server issue to me. I couldn't get on individual boards earlier, only /*/sfw/, and I got that error message someone made a thread about on /shed/ if I try posting images.
>> No. 89675 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 10:07 pm
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>>89671
The reason nobody is willing to admit the population needs to decline is because populationists like you are fucking nuts. All your arguments are completely fallacious. Food and water security is not threatened by population, it's threatened by consumption (as you mention but then dismiss for some reason) and ultimately capitalism.
>> No. 89676 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 10:18 pm
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>>89675

Care to tell us how, exactly, consumption is not directly tied to population?

I'm willing to listen even if you're one of the nutters from the Are Greta thread who will tell us everything is fine and justified, because we can sustain twice as many people on the same amount of resources if we all go vegan and ration water to three glasses a day.
>> No. 89677 Anonymous
2nd May 2020
Saturday 10:30 pm
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>>89676
How many t-shirts and pairs of jeans does one person need? How many do people get through needlessly? Go and look up how much fresh water it takes to produce them.
>> No. 89678 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 1:15 am
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>>89677
If it gets to the point where this kind of question needs an answer we're fucked.
>> No. 89679 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 7:52 am
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>>89671
>the pursuit of immigration to fill skill gaps is short sighted and disrespectful to the native population

Why?
>> No. 89680 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 8:37 am
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>>89679
Employers won't train people up in this country if they can import someone already trained abroad. For example, the NHS is heavily reliant on those from overseas but tens of thousands of people in this country apply and are rejected every year to train as a nurse; the cost of training a nurse is around three times higher than hiring a migrant nurse.

The cost is around £70,000 to train a nurse, £479,000 to train a GP and £725,000 to train a hospital consultant. We have more foreign born medical staff than anywhere else in Europe and are a key reason why countries like India, Romania and parts of Africa face severe staffing shortages; it's simply unethical.
>> No. 89681 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 8:38 am
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5 years ago today. As you say, simpler times.
>> No. 89682 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 9:09 am
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>>89678
I just think that if less than £50 spent in Primark on clothes that'll fall apart after a few weeks can use as much fresh water as a human will drink in their entire lifetime, maybe curbing consumerism is more sensible than jumping straight to eugenics.
>> No. 89683 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 9:22 am
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>>89678

I know, right? If the only options are buying a bit less shit or genocide, well, we'd better crack out the Zyklon B.

>>89680

>We have more foreign born medical staff than anywhere else in Europe and are a key reason why countries like India, Romania and parts of Africa face severe staffing shortages; it's simply unethical.

Not true. Like most things, training medics has huge economies of scale - training lots of medics makes each marginal medic cheaper to train. Those countries have staff shortages because of underfunding and mismanagement of their domestic healthcare and education systems, not because of a brain drain. The Philippines is the world's largest exporter of nurses, but the effect on their domestic healthcare system has been either neutral or positive; the economic benefits to the Philippines are huge, because of the billions in foreign currency that flow into the country via remittances from overseas workers.

https://economics.nd.edu/assets/289077/theoharides_amherst_intl_migration_of_healthcare_pros.pdf
>> No. 89684 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 10:46 am
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>>89683
It's all well and good saying that but plenty of impoverished nations simply don't have the resources. In Romania the number of doctors in hospitals fell between 2011 and 2013 from 21,400 to 14,400, with over 2,100 Romanian doctors working in the NHS.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/07/romanian-health-service-crisis-doctors-uk

Romania spends billions training doctors but research has found that around 85% of them plan on emigrating; it's estimated 43,000 doctors left Romania between joining the EU in 2007 and 2016, bearing in mind most developed EU nations had restrictions on movement until 2009 or 2014.

They've tried increasing wages but they're still significantly higher in Western Europe. When there's such a disparity the direction of travel is almost exclusively one way.

You can point out how wonderful the Philippines are for their economies of scale in becoming a production line for training medical staff whilst saying the problems Romania face are their own fault for not being organised enough. However, it's simply unethical. It's neo-colonialism, rich countries plundering the resources of impoverished nations.
>> No. 89685 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 11:01 am
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The type of immigration we've had in this country for years is just inverse imperialism. Instead of going to foreign countries to exploit their poor, we bring their poor here to exploit at home. It's really quite baffling they never thought of it sooner.

No leftist worth their salt can defend free movement except in the proper Bolshy sense of a borderless global utopia where all workers are equal and share in the fruits of their labourer.

Anyway I don't know why were having this argument again, you've all had time to defend immigration in the decade or so leading up to Brexit and you convinced nobody then. You're certainly not going to change any minds now it's already happened.

Sorry, but you're just going to have to get used to doing your own dishes instead of paying for a maid.
>> No. 89686 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 11:35 am
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>>89684

Romania could fix their problems with the stroke of a pen by introducing a British-style student finance system. 9% of earnings over £25k wouldn't impact anyone who stayed in Romania, but it'd bring in vast amounts of delicious foreign currency. It's hardly our fault that Romania give away their doctors for nowt.
>> No. 89687 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 12:07 pm
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>>89686 you do realise that the British student finance system has no obligation to continue payment once you move abroad? And that even if they included that clause, there would be no practical way of enforcement.
Also I'm not sure how a slightly increased future revenue for the gov would help with brain drain and other demographic problems. Particularly when that revenue increase from loan payments still won't make up for the loss of various taxes and re-cycling money within the local economy, that the doctor staying in Romania would bring instead.
>> No. 89688 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 12:24 pm
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>>89685
>It's really quite baffling they never thought of it sooner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery
>> No. 89689 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 12:29 pm
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Romania retains a lot of its communist governmental inefficiencies, so it's easy to see why it's stagnant. Pair that with less social freedoms and it doesn't seem a very appealing place, especially when you can easily move to a 'better' nation.

It's not neo-colonial or unethical to offer a better deal. Romania could improve itself for the betterment of its people but it isn't. A country can fuck its own people over much more than 'the big bad rich ones'.
>> No. 89690 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 1:33 pm
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>>89689
It's a bit hard for the country to improve with such a massive brain drain.
>> No. 89691 Anonymous
3rd May 2020
Sunday 3:45 pm
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>>89687

>you do realise that the British student finance system has no obligation to continue payment once you move abroad?

I don't realise that, because it's not true. You still owe the SLC money and you're obliged to return an Overseas Income Assessment Form if you leave the country for more than three months. The SLC has information-sharing agreements with many European governments and while they have limited ability to enforce repayments in many countries, they can and will pursue you if you ever return to the UK.
>> No. 89697 Anonymous
4th May 2020
Monday 4:45 pm
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6a00d83451cbef69e2022ad3a53a96200d-600wi.jpg
896978969789697
How time flies.

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