Racist thugs may not be fascism but they're typically an important component of it. It seems odd that you lead with criticism of half informed opinions then ignore the nuance in problems with using fascist symbols - i.e. is the swastika being used to advocate for fascism or to highlight Israel's hypocritical behaviour? Regardless of what the actual placard was, this contradicts the point you're getting at. Antifa aren't generally active here either, this "Why are they arresting our good British boys but not the wokelluminati?" smacks of imported Yank culture war.

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm telling you that Carlin wouldn't have had much time for the stooges promoting the ongoing slaughter of tens-of-thousands of Gazans, you massive cretin.

When I lived in a posh area, if I saw the police I thought they were just timewasting government agents looking to stir up trouble. Now that I am a swanky homeowner in a grisly shithole, I love seeing the police because I know there are actual scumbags around who do deserve to be arrested. So I will claim that the nicer society gets, the more people hate the police because they don’t see as many criminals.

Also, the police were 100% in the right to break up that vigil for Sarah Everard during the pandemic, and nobody is willing to admit to this. If you supported the lockdowns and the restrictions, you had no choice but to oppose a massive and futile gathering of hundreds of strangers, even if that gathering had viral social-media feminism behind it.

I'm a white male. I don't do illicit drugs. I'm not one of the groups at high risk of being abused or brutalised by police. I don't mind seeing them about. I'm not saying a bobby on every corner, but I know if something kicked off in the city centre, I could get the police to attend relatively quickly.

But I know I am privileged to be who I am. If I were a black man in some London shithole, if I were a woman who has become distrustful of the police due to the Sarah Everard stuff, I'd probably have a different opinion.

Policing is really a difficult concept. We all appreciate the rule of law, and if you've ever had a break in or been mugged or anything like that, you will appreciate the need for a civil peace keeping service.

But how do you achieve that without giving another group of thugs legitimacy and an excuse to swing their weight about? Are we asking too much of them to expect them to carefully tread through a minefield of politics every day, rather than just nicking shoplifters and drug dealers? How can we prevent them being used as merely a tool of the state to suppress dissent?

Part of all this is why I am so absolutist about free speech. It's a pragmatic thing. Don't get the police involved to decide what kind of imagery or slogans or whatnot is okay and what's not, because that's just simply way above their pay grade and they'll make a pig's ear of it. It might be bad that skinhead types are going around saying dodgy stuff, but when the shoe is on the other foot and you're trying to have your lefty parade about saving polar bears or whatever, it'd be a good thing there's no precedent for the police to come and bash your head in either.

The police as an institution are one thing but on the other hand they are individually just ordinary people, that also has to be remembered.

>>98493
Where did I say that he would? And I'm interested to know how police blatantly refusing to arrest someone for a swastika is the act of stooges for fascism (and that's assuming Netanyahu's a fascist which is iffy). But hey, blatantly omit half of what I said because you want to start a row if it makes you feel better.

>>98492
They certainly are a part of it, I'm with you there.

But as for the nuances in intent - well, big differences really - I see no contradiction. Yes, here is an obvious difference between a left winger and a right winger waving a swastika around outside an embassy full of Jews but that's obvious, and at the end of the day those differences don't mean much in practice because Jewish onlookers are still going to feel that a kicking is about to happen.

Sure they're condemning fascism but they're still acting incredibly antisemitic. That's the point here

Sorry if it sounds a bit like Daily Mail screeching about 'the wokerati', not my intent (not gonna call those people woke, for starters) or culture war crap but that's just due to the DM trying to sound progressive.

>>98498
And I'm not talking about satirical cartoons - that's still a mixed message, because a satirical cartoon with a swastika on it could be a tad complex, hard to understand from fifty feet away in a crowd, and people could get the wrong idea. I'm literally talking about holding up a giant swastika with Death to Israel on the side, or something that you can imagine a fascist doing like that.

I've been arrested for allegedly legitimate reasons and had to face the due process of law. I've been arrested for illegitimate reasons, where it was simply convenient for them to ignore the law in the interest of the government and capital. Neither the bobbies who assaulted, abducted and falsely imprisoned me nor the commanding officers who gave the order faced any repercussions for that: no investigation, no reprimand. The substantial settlement I was awarded thanks to the law firm who took the case for me just came out of a budget. This seems to me that they're simply above the law - when they want to be. That's not how an equitable and just society works, is it?

At public order events like protests, front-line coppers are under fairly strict instructions to only nick people if a) it's necessary to prevent immediate harm or b) they've had specific orders from a senior officer. Arresting people who are part of a mass gathering carries the risk of inciting disorder and takes officers off the street who might be needed.

The preferred tactic these days is to track people on CCTV and swoop in to nick them if they wander away from the crowd, or towards the end of the day when things are petering out. Picking people off like that reduces manpower requirements and avoids ugly scenes. The Met briefly deviated from that approach during COVID and went back to pre-1990 tactics, which was fine when they were just bundling anti-lockdown nutters into vans but backfired spectacularly at the Sarah Everard vigil.

>>98494
Yeah this (the bit about being middle class). Great set of lads when they're arresting other people but incredibly annoying in other scenarios.

Back when I was a younglad I did a ride-along with the police in London and it was a bit of an eye-opener that I didn't appreciate at the time. We spent most of the night fucking about fining cyclists and giving people directions but then once it got to closing time they got a call about a woman being followed home by a big black bloke.

Well, I know this may shock you but picture the Met's finest swinging into action at that call, police on bikes doing stunts jumps off stairs and all sorts. But unfortunately my car had an awkward moment where our suspect crossed paths with another black guy and we pulled up on an old black bloke, made him chuck away his ciggie and then promptly apologised and zoomed off again once control pointed it out. The innocent bloke was obviously quite pissed off but what can you do really.

Anyway, they stopped a would-be rapist who it turned out had a criminal record as long as your arm so maybe a good thing. What tips it for me though is that police women also have lovely bums.

>>98499
Aren't the fascists all for Israel these days? I can't seem to keep up with all these hip-hop beefs.

>>98503
If they're Israeli fascists, certainly. That being said, the obvious problem there is how much fascism an old Jewish person is likely to want to take on (it's a qualified thing called Kahanism, that specifically hates Arabs).

But fascism generally involves hating Jews as it has from the get-go, so many fascists online hate Israel. See, the other chan's /pol/. They also hate Arabs and Muslims. So obviously you have to weigh up how likely and extensive their support will be for a Jewish nation state and it will likely only be as far as common interests i.e. a foothold in the Mideast and hate of Muslims.

Indeed, compare Trump's support of Israel to less fascist conservatives like Reagan and Bush and you'lll see it was mere pandering, like moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It's for votes as well.

>>98504 Forgot to add - Kahanism, or the actual 'fascists' are not Netanyahu and Likud, who are centre right. Even democracies can commit atrocities like this. No, they're not fascist... they just ALLIED with fascists in the far right Otzma Yehudit party, like Defense Secretary Itamar Ben Gvir! Sarcasm aside, it's those fuckers we need to keep an eye on more than anyone. It was an OY politician who called for Gaza to be nuked.

Which would be like sitting in London and nuking Basildon. Except Basildon deserves it.

>>98504
>>98503
You needn't hate Jews to be a fascist. Obviously there's a lot of crossover, but to pilfer greedily from Umberto Eco; you only need to think that your people are the best in the world. I'd say most right-wing Americans are basically fascists at this point because of how deep their contempt for democracy and their attempts to re-write history have gone. Some would say that's ungenerous, and you're right and I don't care. Regardless, they see Israelis as akin to themselves, militaristic, Judeo-Christian (white) and conservative, so they've no reason to hate them. The 4chan fascists are much too smart to be co-opted into the mainstream like that and have instead been groomed by internet Nazis from the age of 13, which is why they have a lot more OG Nazi beliefs. I'm not sure how they square the fact that Trump couldn't care less about that kind of thing, but I suppose if they've thought about it at all they see him as a kind of gateway drug to the Hitler 2.0 they long for.

>>98506

This is all true, as per Mussolini (the original OG East Coast flavour before the West Coast Feud with the Nazis) but Trump has been alleged to say Hitler had the right idea so it's possible he's become your more mainstream anti-semite fascist. Generally that shows through.

Anyway vaguely on the subject of that as much as it annoys me the Met are saying 'it's all about context' they are at least not kowtowing to the Home Secretary; she forgets they are servants of the law, of the people, not of the Government.

I like City Police; they seem to be a lot nicer than the Met.

>>98507 Addendum - what I mean is that in practice, most of the time they eventually show up as anti-semitic. Maybe that means the right wing zionists aren't fascists for a good chunk of them. Maybe they're just mental. Some are anti-semitic though and you don't need to be a fascist to hate jews so the fascist ones might well hate Jews too, bouncing off each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism#In_the_United_States

>>98507
>she forgets they are servants of the law, of the people, not of the Government.
Keep up, it's James Cleverly now. He plays Warhammer too so he's definitely not a woman. He seems to have been given the job primarily to keep the Home Secretary out of the news, something Patel and Braverman were both unable and unwilling to do. He's performing his duties well if even a city slicker like yourself didn't realise he'd gotten the gig.

>>98492 Nuance? LMAO OK. The nuance between 'harrasing Jews with a with a swastika because you're a fascist' and 'harrassing Jews with a swastika because you're just an antisemitic mong?'

LOL this is a weak and blatant pisstake. What about the nuance between important academic distinctions and the practicalities of real life prejudice? Or an apologist and a dickhead kek

>>98509
>He plays Warhammer too so he's definitely not a woman.
Going by the updated policy platform, he's definitely not brown either.

>>98510
> 'harrassing Jews with a swastika because you're just an antisemitic mong?'

Nuance is that thing where you can tell the difference between say, Jews, anyone who practices Judaism and The Zionist Israeli who represent rogue-nuclear colonialist ethno apartheid state that rounds up the natives into ghettos and has been caught covertly sterilizing the black members of their own community, and is currently exercising a genocide.
You surely can tell the difference, And understand why drawing comparisons between them and Nazis is fair, and not purely antisemitism. I think most people hope that by making the comparison they can shock them out of their behavior, but over a lifetime I think it is reasonable to conclude they are without remorse. Israel was born out of war crimes and it appears to have been its modus operandi ever since.

>>98512

>colonialist

The majority of the Israeli Jewish population is Mizrahi and ethnically native to the Middle East or North Africa.

>apartheid

Arab Israelis have equal rights and status under Israeli law. There are currently ten Arab members of the Knesset and one Arab member of the Supreme Court. A majority of Arab Israelis wish to remain as Israeli citizens in the event of a two-state solution.

>Israel was born out of war crimes

Israel was born through an entirely lawful declaration of independence supported by a UN mandate. The Arab world chose to reject that mandate and chose to start the 1948 Arab-Israeli war with the explicit goal of destroying the state of Israel. It cannot be reasonably argued that the historical existence of Irgun invalidates the right of Israel to exist while also arguing that the existence of equivalent Arab paramilitary organisations has no bearing on the legitimacy of a possible future Palestinian state.

It is right and proper to criticise the current Israeli government, because they're a shower of shit. It is not proper to dispute the legitimacy of a nation based on the actions of a government. Israel has the right to exist, just as Germany has the right to exist.

>>98513
>The majority of the Israeli Jewish population is Mizrahi and ethnically native to the Middle East or North Africa.
That doesn't make it not colonialist.
>Arab Israelis have equal rights and status under Israeli law.
The IDF don't seem to be shooting many Israeli children with sniper rifles while they gather food to avoid starvation.
>Israel was born through an entirely lawful declaration of independence supported by a UN mandate.
Doesn't make it not born out of war crimes.
>Israel has the right to exist, just as Germany has the right to exist.
So far as any nation has the "right" to exist, to put this into context it's best imagined during a time when "Germany has a right to exist" is being used to defend their invasion of Poland.

>>98510
>Nuance? LMAO OK. The nuance between 'harrasing Jews with a with a swastika because you're a fascist' and 'harrassing Jews with a swastika because you're just an antisemitic mong?'
Which bucket would these lads go in?

>>98512
Maus should be required reading. Actually, no, that would ruin it. But everyone should read it none the less.

>>98514
> "Germany has a right to exist" is being used to defend their invasion of Poland.

That's just Lebensraum.

>>98515

NK are more-or-less the Jewish equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church - a messianic fringe of a fringe sect that the wider community wants nothing to do with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta

>>98512 LOL yeah it's apartheid-ish. But why are you so quick to defend waving a Swastika banner at Jews that you falsely accuse Israel of four VASTLY different things and talk like all Israelis are zionists?

I hope it's just poor wording. Cause otherwise you have a need to lump all Israelis together, or you're missing a lump between your ears. Well done!

>>98519
>and talk like all Israelis are zionists?
You did see the part where he literally made distinctions between different groups, right?

>>98520 >Jews, anyone who practices Judaism and The Zionist Israeli who...

I didn't see him say 'of course that's not all Israelis'. Anyway, what are most Jews? Israeli. What are most Israelis? Jews. There is a difference, but is he bothering to make that distinction? I mean he conflates colonialism with fascism, conflates colonial empires like Britain with a democracy whose people lived on that land but commits war crimes out of paranoia, conflates fascists with Kahanists, and falsely accuses Israel of being a rogue nuclear state like Iran.

Funny how we didn't call Britain's occupation of Ireland in the 1970s colonial, what with all the war crimes we did and that.

>>98515 Neither. As stated I'm not talking aboust satirical cartoons, or things like that there. There are risk with that approach, but I'm talking about a swastika. A straight up swastika. Plus, it's a bit different when it comes from other Jewish people for obvious reasons. Still wrong, perhaps, but it lacks the antisemitic connotations.

Why would anyone defend the actions of Israel unless they had a vested interest in doing so? It's a dumb place to go dogging, as far as objective morality goes they are in the wrong. Not all Israeli people obviously, but their government, and to be honest many of the citizens.

>>98522
>Neither. As stated I'm not talking aboust satirical cartoons, or things like that there.
Suddenly you understand nuance the moment you're put on the back-foot. Fucking idiot.

>>98521
>Anyway, what are most Jews? Israeli.
Do you have any numbers for this? As a claim, it sounds very untrue.

Actually, I've gone looking myself. There are 15.7 million Jews worldwide (that's not very many!), and the population of Israel is a little under 10 million, but only 7.2 million Israelis are actually Jewish. Also, the 15.7 million are people who describe themselves as "Jews above all else"; you can count Jews differently and the number can go up to 25.5 million if you try really hard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country
So you're still more right than I was expecting.

>>98523
If they weren't "strategic partners" or whatever, no one would be going to the mat like this for Israel. The double standards are so nakedly obvious. Backing Israel while giving the occasional disaprioving finger wag has highlighted the West's hypocrisy over matters like this and utterly evaporated any shred of credibility it might have had in the Middle East region, and harmed it in the Global South. It's as if the Russo-Ukraine war has already been memory holed by senior political leadership. Pissing away any semblance of good will because Netanyahu can't cope with losing power and thinks drawing out this war is the only way to cling to it, was a terrible situation Western powers have simply blundered into.

It would be generous to say it's idiotic to think that the October 7th attack into Israel wasn't going result in anything other than a big war. However, the war has been so poorly carried out by the IDF that it's hard to see it as anything other than a scorched earth attack to make the area unlivable, with hostage rescue as a tertiary objective at best. The best evidence for this was back in December when IDF troops gunned down escaping Israelis without a second thought. The current Israeli leadership don't believe in a Palestinian state, so anyone that believes otherwise is basically LARPing.

>>98524
LOL calm down. I made the difference between straight up antisemitic symbols, with antisemites hising behind 'context', and satirical usage of the swastika, at the start. Did I say I was okay with the second? No, I just said I wasn't talking about that, it's a different topic.

I said people in the first category are fascist or just antisemitic and you asked what Jews using it satirically would come under. Of course the answer's going to be 'neither' LMAO.

But in answer to your question, they're clearly Jewish people using the swastika satirically, but that's my point; using swastikas to protest fascism, even satirically, is going to turn people off. It's counterproductive.

What makes you think that if it's okay for Jews to do it it's okay for you to do it?

>>98521
>I didn't see him say 'of course that's not all Israelis'.
I'm assuming he thought you weren't an idiot. Clearly he was mistaken.

Your candidates for Police and Crime Commissioner (if you still have one) should be announced no later than 4pm Monday. Many areas have already issued their Statements of Persons Nominated.

As always, if you're thinking you might vote cock, be careful not to draw it too tidily in case it gets counted as a valid vote.

I'm voting for BBW MILF Caroline Henry for a second term, she got banned from driving for speeding multiple times around the time she got elected, and I think Conservatives are putting her forward again. Bringing down the filth from the inside by speeding through residential streets.

Or maybe she's a dumb hypocritical cunt like her MP husband Darren who has done fuck all for his constituency. At least when Soubry was around she pretended to be concerned about the tram construction.
>In January 2022, a briefing released by the TaxPayers' Alliance revealed Henry to be "Britain's most expensive MP..." after £280,936 of expense claims during the 2020/2021 financial year.
Absolute state of things.

>>98530

I'd vote for the BBW MILF party. I'd definitely go to a BBW MILF party.

>>98531
I like the idea of it, but I think I'd be embarrassingly shy and awkward in real life.

>>98530
good lord.

These are my choices
John Crofts - Liberal Democrats
Giles Rackley Orpen-Smellie - Conservative and Unionist Party
Martin Schmierer - Green Party
Sarah Taylor - Labour and Co-operative Party

Giles must have had a hard time at school with that name.
How come there's no Reform candidate? Aren't they dead keen on law & order?
I'm going to have to vote cock, I don't think PCC should be an elected position, let alone along party lines.

>>98535

Get a few drinks down you and I'll see you at Club Indulge.

>>98536

>Giles must have had a hard time at school with that name.

His dad's harder than your dad.

>>98536
>I don't think PCC should be an elected position

Why? It seems like the biggest criticism of them is that nobody gives a shit about it but they could have been a powerful tool to set local policing priorities and be an outside mechanism able to step in when the local police turn into a old boys club.

>>98538

That used to be the responsibility of the Home Office, who (at least at the time) had a vague inkling of what they're doing. Most PCCs just don't have the knowledge or skills to provide a useful level of scrutiny.

>>98538
He might well be a splendid chap, but

"Giles Rackley Orpen-Smellie's policies
Statement to voters
I am standing to the be the Police & Crime Commissioner for Norfolk because I believe that I have the experience and skill sets to enable me to make a sound contribution to keeping Norfolk safe."

and that's the only one on the page with a statement (other than 'favourite biscuit: chocolate hobnob' from the green's candidate.

So, how informed is my vote going to be? If it's just a vote for which colour party I'd prefer, is that an informed and useful vote?

>>98539
>Most PCCs just don't have the knowledge or skills to provide a useful level of scrutiny.nderpaid civil servant in London.

Keep in mind that in a working system they campaign locally on issues and priorities, create a strategy for addressing policing and live in the local area. Obviously if the public cared about local democracy they would be able to turf out ineffective PCCs anyway.

>>98540
You can have some of my Mayoral candidates if you want:

It's a one-horse race where I live.

>>98541

>Brian Rose

Jesus that cunt still at it? Ell emm ay oh.

Looks like he's even recycled the same bunch of youtube ad footage from his last attempt. Definitely the same suit. What kind of rich tosser are you that you can't afford a new suit.

I'd love eccentric knobheads like these if it weren't for the fact their wealth enables them to legitimately wield a degree of influence.

>>98543
He decided to be interviewed by 15 year olds on their political youtube channel and promptly got his arse handed to him. Then when they published the interview our champion of free speech had the video immediately taken down for copyright infringement of... himself.

He later appeared on GB News where the hypocrisy was pointed out to him and he claimed he didn't remember the event.

>>98544
He looks like the Devil from The Master and The Margarita, I'd vote for him for that reason.

Never forget that time Brian Rose drank his own piss on the podcast, then made another video where he drank the leftovers.

I can't find the original clips these came from, so you're stuck with shitty Guido watermarks. It was that or obnoxious on-screen captions.