Howdo lads, the local confusion institute is offering lessons in Mandarin for a fair price (£50 for 5 evenings which will be refunded if I then do the 12 week course at £120) but I was wondering what your advice would be on taking it up given I know we have a few speakers here.
From what I've heard its one of the hardest languages to learn and something that will take years of practice to gain any sort of fluency. I could just as well do 12 lessons of Tai-Chi if I wanted something to do at £72. Still it might look good on my CV and I could do with learning a foreign language after Swedish petered out when my phone app broke.
Are the /boo/ theories true about it being Chinese brainwashing? Will I end up recruited as a Chinese secret agent??
>>6048 Huh, how hard are we talking here. Do you think its possible when I'm already balancing stacking shelves at Tesco and my PhD or is this more undergraduate dreams? I don't want to put money down on something I'm going to lose track off after a couple of lessons you see.
Sounds exactly like something a brainwashed commie spy would say! Take him away GCHQ-lad.
I know someone in the Mainland who, while working 40-50 hours a week as an English teacher picked up both in 3 years. Initially he did not have much of a social life, but once he got his head round the basics he could practice over beer beers with the locals.
I doubt you have the time to do both in three years at the moment, but your could crack on with Mandarin.
The Foreign Service Institute is a branch of the American government responsible for teaching foreign languages to diplomats, spies and other such arseholes.
According to their data, it takes about 2200 hours of quality study for an English speaker to become proficient in Mandarin or Cantonese. That compares with 600 hours for French, Italian or Spanish and 750 hours for German.
From personal experience, I think that the FSI figures are quite accurate. I speak three foreign languages to a reasonable standard, including Mandarin. It is a fucker of a language. I've used Mandarin daily for several years and I still struggle. It's also incredibly useful, which is why I persevere with the bastard.
If you're going to learn any language, I think you need a clear motivation to get you through the difficult bits. Once the initial excitement of being able to order a beer wears off, there's a long and dismal slog until you're proficient enough to follow a conversation or read a newspaper. Some people love the process of learning languages, but I think most people need a clear goal in mind.
As an engineer, speaking Mandarin is a kind of superpower. I can get access to components that are unobtanium in the west, I can get better deals on outsourced manufacturing, I can dodge the unreadable Engrish of many datasheets and go straight to the source. On a personal level, I have a deep affection for the Chinese people. If it weren't for all of that, I would have given up after a couple of months.
I can't comment on whether the Confucius Institute perpetrate brainwashing, because I've become rabidly pro-Chinese without their involvement.
>>6051 Had a glance at their Language Difficulty Ranking. Apparently Japanese is the hardest language to learn. Which is odd because I understand it has one of the smallest number of syllables.
>>6053 > Which is odd because I understand it has one of the smallest number of syllables.
Please be joking. Surely you realise that the number of syllables in a language has absolutely nothing to do with its complexity? If anything it's going to make things more complex because of the wide variety of orders that they're put into in order to form words. Add that to the fact that all syllables in Japanese are given equal stress and you can see how miserably complex even the spoken language is, never mind the miasma of the written language with its three different alphabets.
I'm the lad who posted the thread about speaking Chinese some time ago.
I also studied at Renmin University, one of their political unis in Beijing.
Feel free to ask me anything.
I'd advise reading my old thread but the myth that Chinese is hard or impossible is a pathetic and lazy lie designed by puerile people who panic at the sight of hanzi and a different character structure. I was one of those people too, so don't feel bad.
In terms of employment, everybody always asks about the Chinese on my CV, both my language skills and my studying at university and studying there. Everybody is always impressed by it because;
a) it shows a willingness to learn
b) it shows you will take on a challenge
c) you like to build character even if it isn't of direct benefit
d you stand out as that guy who can speak Chinese
People in my office still ask me about my Chinese and my boss recently admitted it was my unique selling point and instantly stood me above the rest for just being so interesting and helping me to come across as an adaptable, dedicated and fast learning individual.
Happy to answer any questions.
I try to do half an hour a night but at least two hours a week.
I should add that whilst my bragging does nothing and certainly is as irrelevant here as it is in the real world, Renmin is one of the most prestigious Chinese universities.
All Chinese universities rank terribly internationally but Renmin is renowned as one of the most selective and a place where future political leaders and top civil servants study.
I thought I'd throw that in because I feel slightly qualified to say that I get a bit about Chinese culture and politics too, so if you want a bit of context or whatever I can throw that in with any questions. I didn't just do some tacky teach English course or study bullshit in some far out uni. I covered a lot of the real deal.
>>6053 Number of syllables mean nothing when the grammar is as horrendous as Japanese. There are also 3/4 (if you count Romaji) scripts, and even those are a clusterfuck -- Kanji (漢字/汉字） as the writing suggests is the adapted Chinese character set, and while Chinese (usually) sticks to one pronounciation and meaning 'tree' per character (as in, the meanings are all related), Kanji have two or more readings -- the most common being Go'on and Kun if I remember correctly. One is the initial Chinese meaning, and the other is what the sound of the character meant back in the day. Consequently, if you look at any dictionary for a kanji, then there'll be a readings section. For example, '漢' in 漢字(kanji) is read in standard Mandarin as "hàn" only. In Japanese, it can be read as "kan", "aya", "otoko", "kara" or "han". Some of these will be effectively unused, but there are a few where the reading (and hence meaning) will vary. There are rules as to the correct script to use (though I believe that computer IMEs follow these rules pretty well these days and you ony need to enter in katakana).
>>6051 2200 hours or even just the solid month required for German seems a little excessive to me. Roughly how long do you reckon it will take to be able to pick up a newspaper or chat up a Chinese lass before you label me a pervert, its so I can learn the language through submersion.
I suppose its a hard one to answer but you're right that the slog is something I have to keep in mind. I'm trying to get my head around the tones as a bit of practice and I can already see a few cock-ups in the making.
>>6055 >I also studied at Renmin University, one of their political unis in Beijing
Why did you study at Renmin University, one of their political unis in Beijing?
[spoiler}TBH you can just go up to a Chinese lass and ask for her number and she will give it to you. Even if she is with her "boyfriend"of 4 years". it is either amusing or tragic.[/spoiler]
Tonally, and I shit thee not, the best thing is to watch a few of the early Arnie movies and then put on a ham Arnie accent when speaking Mandarin or Cantonese. I learnt this taking the piss out of my missus, and her response the first time was "fuck, how have you finally learnt how to pronounce tones properly?"
>>6060 huh, I had assumed that they just wanted to be left alone and that the womenfolk would be ostracised if they started seeing a native. I guess I will get chatting to them in the smoking area at the library and see where it goes.
You' know I think I've heard this advice somewhere before, the other thread also seems to suggest it with the talking like a racist stereotype. I guess I will try doing an Arnie movie marathon before my first lesson.
Chinese lasses in the UK, I dunno. In the Mainland, yes.
I think that post was me, but it was not meant as a racist stereotype, more dropping your voice half a tone and enunciating the vowews, as Arnie did when he was learning English.
