I mostly don't really like Star Trek Picard, but it got me watching DS9 (from the start), and I liked it more than I was expecting to.

Sisko is much more relatable than Picard, and Major Kira is much more wankable than Janeway.

>>23078

DS9 has aged better than any Star Trek franchise IMO. It was way ahead of its time in having a massive ensemble cast and long multi-series plot arcs. If you enjoyed the first season, you're in for a treat - a lot of people complain that it doesn't really get going until the start of season 3, which isn't wholly unfair.

>>23079

>It was way ahead of its time in having a massive ensemble cast and long multi-series plot arcs.

You might also enjoy...

>>23079

I am definitely one of the people who finds before season 3 there are a few too many lazy B-plots about Quarks latest wacky scheme. There are some great episodes and moments in there still but it definitely feels weaker overall compared to where it is going.

>>23079
It's a good thing DS9 nicked so many of J. Michael Straczynski's ideas for Babylon 5 when he pitched his show to Paramount, otherwise it might've been a pile of wank.

The actors in DS9 really elevate the show. For example, the guy who played Garak got so invested in the character that he started writing a journal from his perspective, which he eventually released as a book. The guy who played Gul Dukat talked about playing him not as a villainous antagonist for Sisko and The Good Guys to foil, but as the hero of his own story. His approach was so effective that it made the writers turn him into a cartoonish villain in season seven because Dukat was so popular.

>>23082

>>DS9 ripped off B5

This guy gets it. Hell, they only made the decision to set the next Trek on a space station when they heard B5 was actually going to air.

B5 was always the better of the two shows. DS9 was a fucking snooze-fest for the first two seasons. You'd watch B5 and they were setting up not one but TWO major wars, and then you'd look at DS9 and it was yet another "Constable, it's all kicking off on the Promenade!"

>>23080

We were having a fun conversation at work today about what if Corrie went on a mad one, and had a year long plot arc about the bombs dropping and Ken Barlow and the gang surviving in a post nuclear Salford. Then they wrap it all up with an arc about David travelling back in time to prevent it all, thus reverting the show to the status quo as if nothing had ever happened.

*inspiring music swells*

You ever think you'd see someone get off their face on bennies in a Star Trek show?

>>23085

Nothing about the idea of star trek is sacred now so they are honestly capable of anything. It is well within the realms of possibility by the end of this season Picard ends up on the run from the police after someone plants a dead hooker in the boot of his car to stop him getting somewhere in time to stop the bomb going off, whilst trying to attend both his wife's birthday and watch the big game with his boss at the same time with hilarious consequences.

>>23085

McCoy dosing himself up on something (admittedly by accident) was basically the whole reason for City on the Edge of Forever

Can someone explain why I really don't like Voyager? I just find it very, very dull. My current theory is that I don't like the characters/actors or that it all feels a bit aimless. Sure, they're trying to get home, but I've been watching the beginning of series 2 and there's so much pratting around. Even Next Generation had more focus than this and their whole job was to bumble about the galaxy looking for things to do.

>>23117

Did you like Enterprise? Voyager was objectively the worst series prior to Enterprise.

Personally I like, but I understand that this is due to nostalgia more than anything else.

Maybe use the attached infographic to pick and choose episodes that appeal if you want to stick with it.

>>23118
That image is a level of autism i wasn't prepaired for.

>>23119

Sorry lads. I posted it before I had looked at it properly. The TNG, and DS9 are both useful, the guy has serious beef with Voyager.

Wired has a guide also:
https://www.wired.com/2015/05/binge-guide-star-trek-voyager/

I stopped watching Picard 7 or 8 eps in. It was OK, but not really in the spirit of Trek. It also retconned a lot of stuff. The Orville is a better spiritual successor to Roddenberry Trek than the grimdark stuff that has been coming out.

I quite enjoyed Avenue 5 also, which is Armando Iannucci writing a show set on a space cruise ship.

>>23117

>Can someone explain why I really don't like Voyager?

It's just not very well written. Far too many of the main characters are two-dimensional, nothing substantial is made of the tension between a Starfleet and Maquis crew and the journey home seems like an inevitable sequence of ex machina events.

The core story concept of being hopelessly lost in the arse end of space just isn't manifested in the vast majority of the scripts. The ship is supposed to feel claustrophobic, the crew are supposed to be wavering between hatred, terror and despair, but it never quite comes together. Weirdly, I think that Red Dwarf actually did it better (until the piss-awful VIII) by making it explicit from the outset that there was no hope and these characters really were doomed to drift through space.

>>23117
>Can someone explain why I really don't like Voyager?

Pick one of the 4 bellow.

The characters are almost universally unlikable and only one has any development (the doctor), Kes almost has a character arch but then they fired her from the show for being too interesting and emotionally intelligent. Chakotay isn't a fuckwit, but as a result they run out of things to do with him very quickly.

The writers got so obsessed with 7of9 that she is shoehorned into every scenario to the point that it is exhausting.

The plots start becoming insulting to your intelligence the borg for example go from this high concept cold systematic machine in TNG to being Saturday morning cartoon villains who get very close to yelling "I'll get you next time Janeway!", contrast that with TNG where the drama almost always comes from a problem solving process, or a philosophical debate.

They get bored of their own premise about 2 seasons in and stop worrying about the attrition or consequences of their situation.

>>23118
>did you like Enterprise? Voyager was objectively the worst series prior to Enterprise.

Enterprise started bad, really bad, but the last season might be the best star trek Season. You have to imagine that holodeck episode never happened and then the end of the show is superb.

>>23120
Picard was disappointing for a number of reasons, the least plot spoilery of which would be the inclusion of the boss-eyed Madchester Romulan, which had me rolling my eyes, tutting and imploring if that's really where things are going.

I think the worst bit was how the entire premise of the show, Picard's main spur into action, surrounding the legality of androids in Federation space gets brushed under the carpet in the last couple of minutes. We hear the crew going on like "Ahhh, thank god androids are legal in Starfleet now, phew!" - no defence of the ethics of synthetic life and no exploration or resolution of the supposed Starfleet conspiracy to get androids banned in the first place. Of absolutely anything related to Jean-Luc, and how in Picard he never shuts up about how great Data was, why was this fundamental plot point completely ignored? Was it oversight, or did the showrunners really not bank on people being interested in what made TNG great?

I have lost any good will towards new Trek now.

>>23123
I also have to add I haven't seen Discovery, I was warned to it being a complete mess with absurd school drama lesson plot twists every other minute.

>>23124
If you can imagine this, Picard was sold as a deep-character study for those who wanted something deeper than STD. There's one legitimately fun Short Trek (The Trouble with Edward) which isn't connected to the series and is just a piss-take.

>>23125
Before watching Picard, I saw that clip where Patrick Stewart gets on stage at some comic con and promises that Picard will be like TNG. He admits they didn't have anything written at that stage and it was an ongoing process to ensure that only the best aspects of TNG will make the cut.
It now feels like either his contribution was saying how all the women's clothes fall off, and before they could get their knickers back on he's seen it all, or that tv shows have been ruined by the utter fucking trash that was Lost and Kurtzmann is going for that lazy style of writing where everything is a plot twist with Patrick Stewart having no say.

>>23118
I think I've seen a single Enterprise episode in it's entirety, so, who knows? I think the main reason I can't get into Voyager, as others have touched upon, is the characters/actors. I wouldn't call them unlikable myself, they're mostly really bland. Janeway and the EMH are the only two I enjoy, everyone else is quite dull, with the exception of Neelix who I'm thinking of prosecuting under the coervice control legislation that came into effect a few years back. Having just finished DS9 recently perhaps doesn't help as the level of acting was really a cut above in that series. However, that's really the culmination of not only good actors, but proper direction and writing too. The only intriging thing about someone like Ensign Kim is how someone so boring got such a fit girlfriend, and you can't pin that all on the actor.

I also have things to say about Star Trek Picard, but I'll boil it down to the following because no one cares enough to read my PhD dissertation on the matter: it's utter shit and it has poisoned the Star Trek well truly and completely. You can't row back up the waterfall.

I think my relationship with my ex started to fail when we ran out of TAS TNG ENT and DS9 to watch and moved on to VOY. She doesn't like when yell at TV shows and I yelled a lot during VOY, and STD.

Maybe things would be different if we had picked TOS instead, but that was going to be the reward for making it through VOY, I guess it would have been borrowed time, watching both Voyager and Picard would have ruined it eventually.

A new New Trek has been announced: https://intl.startrek.com/news/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-anson-mount-rebecca-romijn-ethan-peck-cbs-all-access

The premise is ST:D Pine and Spock go off exploring, because "these iconic characters have a deep history in Star Trek canon," which may be true for Spock, but Pine? Pine was just the guy whose face got melted in the pilot and couldn't be bothered doing morse code.

Can you blame me for being cynical if Kurtzmann is still at the helm with some of the same team who worked with him on Picard? ST:D and ST:P were atrocious to the point they'd practically wink at the camera and hint there was something original and Trekky about the plot just to rub it in, so I aren't really holding my breath they'd be able to actually make a good episodic series.

>>23156
>but Pine? Pine was just the guy whose face got melted in the pilot and couldn't be bothered doing morse code.

Pike was the captain in the pilot and survived the episode unharmed. Nobody here is watching this rubbish anymore and you will notice from the lack of Star Wars threads that it's not the place to circlejerk endlessly.

I'd even hazard that 'online discussion' is what keeps all this going. There's no other way to explain it.

>>23156
Could nae give a shite.

It is amazing how quickly they were able to burn through our good will. From being excited that star trek was comming back. History will forever be tained by this. And like the star wars prequels before in 20 years you will get a bunch retards insisting these new shows are some how as good or better. As the song goes "if you tolerate this then your children will be next".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3RkBKedKWw

Horror has a face, and you must make a friend of horror.
Horror and moral terror are your friends.
If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.

>>23159
>History will forever be tained [sic] by this.

I know you personally might be being facetious, but the strange culture of seething outrage around shit like this bothers me and I can't place why.

I suppose it's because it's people getting furious over something which barely matters, but that happens all the time. I think it's just the utter pointlessness of it all, when it comes to media like this - people furiously saying they are going to boycott $media, but then as soon as it comes out, they are playing it or watching it.

>>23174
I'm not really a Star Trek-head but this just looks like Rick & Morty with a Trek skin. Reminds me a bit of the recent Thundercats show, modern lolsorandumxd humour applied to a well loved and respected franchise.

>>23175

> but then as soon as it comes out, they are playing it or watching it.

All I can tell you is I personally stopped watching, and I loved Star Trek. It won't stop my love of the originals but without some major shift in creative control I am not interested in doing anything other than complaining that it isn’t how it should be, unless someone whose judgement I trust tells me otherwise.

I think the inertia will carry people to watch these shows with hope for a while, this isn't a case of this being 'bad star trek' this is a case of a brand being cheaply milked. This is the equivalent of all that silly Cthulhu crap you get that has nothing to do with the original books, only it has the stamp of authenticity on it.

>>23175
I've not seen massive angry reaction against nu-Trek really. Many people seem to enjoy it, well, not "many", but some. I've never really seen a boycot movement either, but if there were one it's easy to make a bunch of folk on the internet seem like a Mongol hoard, trampling across all before it, when in reality it's just a few dozen angry weirdos. I think what you've done is take a few disparate things and turn them into a big thing that doesn't exist in reality.

Also I know it's not strictly Star Trek related but I think I saw Mike Stoklasa nearly cry earlier and I'm forever changed by it.

>>23178

I've just watched that. What a bizarre saga. The rumour is that the Shatner twitter account is actually run by one of his daughters, which probably explains a lot.

>>23178
> I know it's not strictly Star Trek related but I think I saw Mike Stoklasa nearly cry earlier and I'm forever changed by it.


For the uninitiated who are curious


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF28Zednl10

for the uninitiated who are curious with short attention spans 19 mins in.

Kind of amazed this thread as been inert for almost two years.

Anyway, as part of my years long quest to enjoy Voyager I jumped back in where I left off watching it on Netflix. It's not really helped though because the episodes about mystical Native American stuff and why space aliens gifted this knowledge to the Native Americans, with a B plot about the EMH having a cold. It's really shit, like really, really rough stuff.

Chakotay gets milked in the following episode! What am I supposed to do with this show!?

I liked the new episode of Orville: Next Generation where you got to see Worf win a fight. It's well and truly given up on all pretences of being a parody at this point and the switch to properly hour-long episodes has allowed them to put in some great moments. You can tell the writers have sat around and thought about how to make a great one-off TNG episode.

You'll just have to deal with a dark first episode to the show where data decides to kill himself.

>>24453
Voyager is one of those shows where I really recommend just following the guide. It's not like TNG where you have a bumpy start but more like the quality is all over the place.

>>24462

To what guide are you referring?

It's been on my mind for a while now, just as a personal project, to edit the very best episodes of TNG, DS9, and VOY respectively to make a series of good feature length films.

In the States Star Trek has been taken off Netflix and put on Paramount+ or whatever the fuck. Hasn't happened here yet but it's only a matter of time.

>>24464

>>24463
Scroll up the thread.

>>24464
If you're relying on streaming to watch a famous tv franchise from the 80-90s then really I don't know what to tell you. You're certainly not getting more of the product by watching it legitimately.

>>24464
Could be worse. They decided, very shortly before release, to move Disco over to P+. Which might have been forgivable had it been available anywhere outside the US at that time.

>>24466 is right. I've downloaded stuff that's been available on services that I was paying for precisely because they keep pulling this kind of shitfuckery. At this stage I'm down to just Prime, and the only reason I haven't ditched it is the delivery.

Just getting into The Next Generation, really enjoying it so far, but what's with Rikers smarmy grin all the time?

>>25099
Holy shit, just watched episode 24 of the first series, this scene came out of fucking no-where, it was incredible. I couldn't believe it.

Just started series 2 - Missing Beverly Crusher and Tasha Yar is a shame but the change seems to have made space for greater character development and conflicts. Seeing Warf go nuts more often is entertaining. Really not liking Whoopie Goldberg though.


">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

>>25204
Honestly, if you're that impressed by series one you'll be doing backflips by the time you're halfway through series three.

Going to roll 2xD6 and see how much psychic damage watching Star Trek: Section 31 will cause me.

Fuck me, it's only managed 2-and-a-half stars on Amazon. If your film is that crap you should have to reshoot it from scratch, like how you have to resit GCSE English or maths if you fail.

Well, I finish the movie.

>>25477>>25478

Jesus, mate. Why would you do this to yourself?

I only touch anything Alex Kurtzman-related by the proxy of the RedLetterMedia reviews now.

>>25480
It was sort of an ironic "celebration" of it being five years since watching Star Trek Picard. Whereas Picard, whilst still having a lot of other flaws, had me wagging my finger, shaking my head and muttering "that's not Star Trek", that didn't really happen with Section 31. It's so naff complaining about a lack of "proper Star Trek" is like worrying about exactly what breed of horse is going to step on your foot.

It honestly felt as if it was made my people who had learnt about cinema only from bad films and video games. Would you believe me if I told you that Section 31 reminded me of Call of Duty 4 in one, very long, scene? Specifically the briefings in between missions that hid the loading times? They also cast a South African to fail at being a comedy Irishman and then at the end he reappears but with a terrible Texan accent. Oh, and the galaxy obliterating superweapon-cum-McGuffin gets activated by being knocked onto the floor. There are plenty of technical things to complain about as well, but who cares at this point? However, if you're only following Kurtzman-Trek by the proxy of RLM, you might remember that time they counted all the producers in the credits to one of the shows (it was probably Picard, but I don't recall). Anyway, without really meaning to I did the same at the end of this film and I think there were about 21 of them. One was the director and another was Michelle Yeoh, but regardless, you shouldn't have enough producers on a 90 minute long film to fill out a match day squad in the Premier League. I'm half-tempted to call the whole thing a scheme that exists solely to line Kurtzman and company's credits.

But like I said up top, this isn't some kind of "no! You're ruining Star Trek!" moment, because this basically isn't Star Trek. The film's even forgotten that Section 31, the organisation, is supposed to be menacing, because every character is a clown. It's an even worse sci-fi-tinged version of The Suicide Squad 2016, and if you changed a few proper nouns in the script and renamed the film "Space Team 21" Paramount wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to claim copyright infringement.

>>25482
>I'm half-tempted to call the whole thing a scheme that exists solely to line Kurtzman and company's credits.

I think you're probably close to the mark, with this. There's some bizarre CV-padding going on. The fact it had to happen to an IP with such an idealistic premise and such a genuine weight in popular culture is rather heart-breaking, though.

Part of me wishes I could find something meaningful to Kurtzman and the many cynical producers involved, perhaps their favourite concept album or a beloved childhood book, and ruin them with a series of unending sequels with incredible financial backing... but that exercise would probably leave me feeling empty.

>"You were right, Tallera. The resonator cannot be stopped by phasers and shields… but it can be defeated by peace."