He said it would be a comedy just because that was a requirement for him getting the show made. He really just wants to make tng and hired a load of the old writers.
I'm not a huge fan of Seth's solo work since I think he's a bit one-dimensional and is an amateurish director (A Million Ways to Die in the West was a mess) but the fact he's taken more of a back seat and made this out of affection gets me really interested. I too absolutely love TNG. Gonna give Orville a go, lads.
>>22551 I don't see why being native would change the calculation. The Prime Directive relates to pre-warp cultures which they had become a distinct example of and their knowledge was at that point a religious myth.
Obviously their culture had already been influenced to its core by contact with a (presumably) warp civilization but after hundreds of years does that change? And what could Discovery realistically do if it did decide to intervene somewhere so far removed from the Federation beside leave shed-loads of technology and let them have at it? I think it's a judgement call and Pike was right to play it safe.
I've watched the first and a bit of the second episodes of Discovery series two, and one of the most annoying, borderline maddening, things about the show is the perpetual, droning, epic soundtrack. Two people can be stood in a room talking and the music's still going on like they were dogfighting a whole fleet. This is part of a bigger problem the show has where it needs to make everything as kinetic and momentus as possible, but it just makes me feel complete sensory overload for whole episode, and undermines anything actually exciting that happens.
I assume from the complete lack of mention of the Picard trailer that everyone was as put off by all the the running, punching and young people as I was.
>>22823 When I heard it was about the Borg my expectations dropped massively, because that's the enemy that gives the writers and producers the biggest licence to make it about explosions and brainless action. Then I watched the trailer which appears to have some kind of blue tinged Borg cube in it, and lots of silly karate kicks; none of this changed my initial impressions for the better. I'm predicting lots of overacting and melodrama, just like Discovery, and some kind of "nano-Borg" or Borg evolution type plot. Borg 2.0! And much like Web 2.0, it will probably be really popular, but ultimately quite vapid and completely miss the point of the original thing. Checking the comments on the trailer was uniquely depressing, as most people still haven't wised up to the fact that Star Trek's been MIA for some time now, and the only dissenting opinions were coming from anti-SJW types whose only exposure to Star Trek seems to have been Picard Tommy Gunning a Borg that one time. But maybe not even that because there was a black lady stood right next to him. Maybe they just saw the .gif version, I think she's cropped out in that.
My favourite episode in all of TNG would probably be "I, Borg", because there's a lot of soul-searching, contrasting opinions and ambiguity. This new series looks like it could be borrowing elements from that, what with the girl who's both Hanna and the last pregnant woman from Children of Men, and maybe she's a kind of super-Borg or something, but I don't expect to be as thoughtful, exciting or dramatic as any of those things I mentioned. Picard himself looks like he could be a bit tacked on, relegated to saying "engage" and highlighting other TNG references, and I'm not especially looking forward to seeing Patrick Stewart act alongside a cast of LA yahoos whose characters are written with the emotional maturity of twelve year olds. People don't act like grown-ups with genuine personalities in too many TV shows right now, something that's going to stick out all the more in a world where humanity is supposed to be far closer to its apex than it is today. There ain't no Judge Rinder in the 24th century.
I know this post has more negativity than a suicide note, but I will watch the show with an open mind and hope for the best. I'm just so tired of seeing the same things in films and shows, and I don't just mean Star Trek media. Same spaceships, same sound design, same superheroes, same constumes; it's all so familiar to begin with and then some dafty exec decides test audiences will like it more if it's more like x and y. The cinematic universes are colliding and forming a cinematic stew! Someone call Jean-Luc out of retirement! Oh, wait.
>>22824 >Checking the comments on the trailer was uniquely depressing, as most people still haven't wised up to the fact that Star Trek's been MIA for some time now
I'm guessing "real" trekkies have their own communities where they're bitching about the same things you are, or simply pretending that these new additions aren't happening. Everyone getting excited about the new films/shows are just the same old consumerist drones with their Marvel t-shirts and funko pops getting excited about the latest thing that's still got the remnants of the "nerd" label as though they're part of some exclusive club.
>>22824 >Checking the comments on the trailer was uniquely depressing
That's just the nature of youtube comments isn't it? I think if you wanted to check the pulse on how Trekkies feel then RLM have been pretty consistent in pointing out what is wrong with the whole STD era. They even had a good idea of what a new Star Trek show should be:
I'm planning on doing my usual strategy of torrenting the show even though I have Netflix until I start seeing Star Trek.
>>22825 >Everyone getting excited about the new films/shows are just the same old consumerist drones with their Marvel t-shirts and funko pops getting excited about the latest thing that's still got the remnants of the "nerd" label as though they're part of some exclusive club.
Right the issue seems to be that what makes star trek, star trek isn't very vogue with marketing people. They assume people will immediately stop watching when you cover a topic maturely, with mature characters, (to them mature topics means talking about fucking and mature characters just means tits and bonking everywhere).
I guess we need to just put all of our faith in the Orville, the alternative is there, and handled much more lovingly. And if the Orville becomes a money spinner and out lasts all of their wizz bang tripe they might start copying it. (although I feel like the Picard show is their attempt to cash in on the obvious nostaligic sucess of the Orvile but looks like they missed the point of what people wanted anyway).
>>22827 >They assume people will immediately stop watching when you cover a topic maturely, with mature characters, (to them mature topics means talking about fucking and mature characters just means tits and bonking everywhere).
They're not wrong though. There's still a massive market for that sort of shite.
>>22827 Unfortunately Orville has lower viewing figures and season 3 will move to Hulu for 2020. While it will go on I'm a bit concerned that the show has just had its second office bonking debacle with Palicki and Grimes divorcing.
I think it was noticed that STD copied many cosmetic elements of Orville for season 2 but only on an extremely superficial level. I wouldn't hold out hope.
Yes but not everything should have the same elements. I like ben and Jerry's ice cream but that doesn't mean I want it as every meal and and that my pie and mash would be improved by making ice cream the filling.
>Right the issue seems to be that what makes star trek, star trek isn't very vogue with marketing people.
The ToS/TNG thing of one-off episodes doesn't really work today, but DS9 was massively ahead of its time in having complex plot arcs that spanned across series. I think the problem isn't Star Trek, but the Federation, especially the Alpha quadrant - it's just too shiny and utopian for contemporary tastes.
>The ToS/TNG thing of one-off episodes doesn't really work today,
It works fine. Rick and Morty that thing people spaff their pants over it. Doctor who is still going and they dont even have the resemblance of a coherent cannon.
What is more of a problem is the writers themselves said the well dried up. They played that format (not including dS 9 but including Enterprise which did have a season long arch) for 3 seasons of ToS, 2 of TAS, 7 of TNG, 7 STV and 4 STE 23 seasons most of which are 26 episodes each. They ran out of stories to tell that didn't feel like repeating themselves.
What is more an issue really is that they done want to make something with the tone of star trek as you put it. "it's just too shiny and utopian for contemporary tastes" I don't think it is, but I think marketing people and 'critics' think that it is. The only thing I can say is look at the orville there is clearly an audience for this sort of thing if someone can succeed in a version that doesn't even have the licence.
I'm sure today you could make TNG on what would essentially be a shoe string budget. Special effects have dropped massively in price. And 3d modeling and printing means bespoke props and prosthetics can be churned out for a lot less.
There is most certainly enough of a market to support 'that' show as long as they take the attitude that they aren't going to screen it on TV where it has to compete for ratings, but stream it.
The issue at the moment is that star trek is being used as the flagship product for a streaming service that has fuck all else so they feel it needs to have the whizzes and bangs that the retards want. The brand is being milked for familiarity at the cost of the value of the brand itself.
Even TNG had canon, Q stuff, Borg stuff, developing crew romances and relationships, it was all in the lore, despite the show not paying a huge amount of attention to it on a per-week basis.
If you think that is the first thing to ever violate previously established doctor Who lore then you have not been watching or not paying attention. It breaks and changes what was established previously constantly. Because no one on staff actually cares about preserving it and not contradicting it. They assume you will only have a vague memory of the beginning of a season and beyond that you will have forgotten. It will occasionally dredge up the cybermen or the daleks but all qualities other than their appearance won't matter and will probably change from episode to episode.
>It works fine. Rick and Morty that thing people spaff their pants over it. Doctor who is still going and they dont even have the resemblance of a coherent cannon.
They are both comedies to some degree - Rick and Morty is overtly a sitcom, while Doctor Who is at the very least camp and slightly self-parodying. We're used to sitcoms that just reset at the end of every episode, but we have higher expectations of serious drama due to the HBO/Netflix revolution.
>The only thing I can say is look at the orville there is clearly an audience for this sort of thing if someone can succeed in a version that doesn't even have the licence.
The Orville is just barely hanging on by its fingernails and will be very lucky to get a fourth season.
>I'm sure today you could make TNG on what would essentially be a shoe string budget. Special effects have dropped massively in price.
Expectations are higher these days; good TV is just inherently expensive to make. Killing Eve cost about £1m per episode and the last season of Game of Thrones cost $15m per episode.
Personally, I think there's loads of mileage in the Star Trek franchise that would work for contemporary audiences, they just require a bit of bravery. There are so many stories that aren't about ubermensch in pyjamas, so many bit-part species and planets facing struggles that don't involve epic space battles or the bloody Borg.
>>22833 is correct. Doctor Who DID have a coherent canon, whenever it introduced new elements such as the Time Lords being named for the first time, Gallifrey being named for the first time etc it rarely contradicted anything that had already been stated. Even the solution to the regeneration limit when Matt Smith turned into Peter Capaldi, ie that the Time Lords granted him a new life cycle, was in keeping with canon (they offered the Master a "complete new life cycle" in The Five Doctors).
There was never any hint of Time Lords changing gender in the original series, and the New Adventures novels specifically stated that it doesn't happen. The NA novels may not be considered canon by some, but they're a damn sight better written than the current series.
I thought I was going to hurt myself again but the short with Tribbles was legitimately fun. The other one out right now was terrible as usual and doing some digging its because they brought on board a comedy writer from the US version of the Office for the episode.
Sadly it once again contradicted canon - Tribbles have ALWAYS multiplied rapidly, Phlox even mentioned them in Enterprise. This episode's attitudes towards peiple with mental health weren't great either. Also, the black/blue haired Tribbles were created by the TribbleToys website yonks ago, they're called Black Alert Tribbles. Nice idea for a variant plush, but actually adding them into an episodes is fucking ridiculous.
>>22918>>22919 Personally I just have no interest in engaging with what appears to be vapid nostalgia bait. It looks like the show's becoming branding over everything and if people recognise the Tribbles then by God they'll do an episode with the Tribbles. If the lesson they learnt from the lukewarm reception of their original ideas was "people don't like original ideas" and not "our original ideas were bad" then the creative heads beyond this show are damned.
Who am I kidding? They'll probably get a spin-off film trilogy.
I haven't seen it but I'm not too concerned with the canon. Tribble multiplication rate in the presence of abundant food was simply a MacGuffin in TOS, as were most canon items self professed Trek nerds hold dear.
Star Trek was always about exploring and discussing themes relevant to mankind and our development, our attitudes, values, beliefs, even what makes us human. Every episode of TOS made the viewer think about the kind of person one is and aspires to be. TNG covered topical issues which was a downgrade but still useful I guess, DS9 was just a soap opera that I didn't finish watching while VOY seemed to be a long running Big Brother-esque experiment to discuss the long term relationships of an isolated group which was cool. VOY seemed to be scared of exploring its deeper theme though so just had a Borg battle every other episode. AND FUCK WHICHEVER VOY WRITER DECIDED THAT ADDING THE PREFIX BIO TO EVERY TECH SOUNDING WORD MADE IT GOOD.
I haven't had chance to watch the newer Treks yet. Do they still try to carry a social message or is it just pew pew space action now?
Personally the plot also strikes me as a bit action-focused. It seems to miss the parts of TNG I most enjoyed, which was about philosophical/ethical questions and humans striving to achieve a higher moral standard.
Adopted sister of Spock where she discusses how her upbringing and heritage affected her resultant personality and the daily struggles she faces while using those revelations to solve a thrillingly intense challenge the crew were facing that week or adopted sister of Spock where she acts autistic for no reason other than to act autistic?
>>22923 It looks awful. Everything wrong with STD all over again and the inclusion of an American pitbull tells me Patrick Stewart has gone on another ego-trip.
>>22925 Try it if you really want. Just don't watch it over Netflix or they might keep making it.
Did the the Star Trek ever actually get into trouble?
One reason i never got into the series is because of my perception of the ship and its crew, particularly captain, as unshakeable paragons of humanity - which i suppose they would be to command such a position on their civilisations first universal exploration vessel. What's the point in watching if they never have to surmount anything?
Ofcourse i mean the USS Enterprise thanks to Google.
The Enterprise was often in pants shitting if-i-didn't-know-this-was-a-tv-program-i-would-shit-myself trouble in TOS, TNG and VOY. VOY not so much as they made it obvious that it was a TV thing throughout the episode. In both TOS and TNG if you're willing to suspend disbelief you will be presented with situations in which it could literally be the end.
In TOS the crew has to surmount themselves regularly. Their own inadequacies as men and humans, their own failures as crew or prejudices affecting the species. In TNG there are countless technical challenges for the crew to overcome and sometimes even personal challenges to surmount.
>>22928 Broadly speaking it's about how they try to remain "unshakable paragons of humanity" (or perhaps even decide what that actually means) while encountering situations were it might be easier to do as your picture suggests and just blow things up, or not give in to fear, panic, loathing or arrogance and cease being paragon-like in their mission.
For example, the picture you posted would never happen, because if a poorly armed, ill-defended ship of negligable danger began firing at the Enterprise Picard would make every attempt to communicate, try to understand and otherwise diplomatically resolve the situation before deciding to just blow them up. Watching how that plays out and the differing opinions on how to deal with it from amongst the crew would be the interesting bit. In fact even he couldn't resolve the situation he might just message Star Fleet Command and tell them there are a load of angry weirdos calling themselves "The Empire" and to be careful in that particular system, rather than kill a bunch of maniacs of limited capabilities.
You may also have struggled to get into it because the first couple of series aren't quite up to the same quality of what comes after.
Everything you said to that guy is right but I want to argue with you as a Trek nerd and thus undermine your authority.
There was a TNG episode in which Picard and crew sole up with no memories to find themselves fired upon by a much inferior opponent. Think Mega Watt lasers vs Terra Watt shields. Picard was initially resistant about returning fire until his 1st Officer reminded him of Starfleet orders involving destroying these rebels. An alien had implanted himself within the crew as the 1st Officer, replacing fat Riker by erasing the crew's memories.
After blowing up a few tiny ships Picard decided the discrepancy was too great to be legit and followed a number of interesting channels to deduce the shenanigans. He did so successfully as your post suggested but it seemed like you were unaware of this episode so I wanted to remind you of it.
I would also like to concur that the first few seasons are terrible, just like the first dozen episodes of TOS.
>>22932 Did you disagree with me? It sounds like you agreed with me. I do remember that episode, it was really good, I liked it a great deal and it seems to support my thesis entirely. I'm no Trek nerd, but that was one of the reasons I prefaced my post with "broadly speaking", thus ensuring that it was impossible to prove me wrong because I had not committed to any specific worldview the show may or may not expresss and/or support. I'm a man-weasle and I won't be pinned down, don't even try, nerd.
I genuinely don't know if I'm disagreeing with you. I'm just so excited to meet another Trek nerd who isn't a trek nerd because life forced him to be that I'm sex weeing my pants a little bit because of this conversation.
Aha, you say you won't be pinned down, so feel free to run away from the following statement without a stain on your Trek character.
"Charlie X was legitimately the worst thing ever aired on TV."
Not as fit as her daughter though. Christ, can you imagine Deanna when she's going through that thing where a Betazoid's sex drive quadruples or even more?
>>22945 Well, at least we can agree she felt better in DS9 where she served a purpose and had good chemistry. Much like the poster above you, I actually quite like her though. She feels like a real person, a big kid and hopeless romantic who is the stern silent types worst nightmare (Worf/Odo). I've known plenty of women like that, albeit it is the childless 30-50 something with unicorn shit all over the place.
I still think that it would've been better for Worf and Troi to end up together and for Mr. Woof to suffer an in-law who torments him but is good for his son. Worf in DS9 wasn't my cup of tea if I'm honest, he abandoned his kid and everything. What the fuck.
