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>> No. 425684 Anonymous
5th April 2019
Friday 11:36 pm
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So am I the only one who is getting a bit annoyed by this whole Greta Thunberg cult, or am I just too much of a cold hearted cynic that the world would be better off without?

I don't doubt the legitimate concern of her generation over climate change, after all it will fall to them to sort out the utter fucking mess that we have left the planet in, but all the awards that she is now being showered with are IMO just middle aged and old people's guilt over their own failure to save the planet's climate despite having had decades of prior warning, and who lost their way and succumbed to high carbon footprint consumerism somewhere between 1990s road protest villages and today's school runs in a 4x4. None of it feels sincere or genuine, it's more like, yeah, just take all these awards and shut the hell up already.

And parents whose children now protest every Friday or so are now engaging in pissing matches on twitter and Instagram to show off which one of their kids gets the most involved. As one commenter said, nothing good has ever come of a youth protest movement that was applauded by parents.
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>> No. 442506 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 8:33 pm
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>>442493

Britain isn't particularly flat. If you look around the world, you'll see a number of vast megacities built on river deltas - about 200 million Chinese people live within a couple of metres of sea level, another couple of hundred million Indians and practically the entire population of Bangladesh.

The capital cities of Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia are severely threatened by climate change - the Malaysians have already started the process of moving their capital out of Jakarta. even in a fairly conservative scenario we'll lose most of the European sea ports we rely on. That's not Armageddon, but it's going to be unimaginably expensive and disruptive to deal with.

The bigger concern is the increase in extreme weather events. Sea levels will rise, but we'll also see a massive increase in extreme rainfall, creating a secondary zone of places that are technically above water but effectively uninhabitable due to the frequency and severity of flooding. Freak weather events like the storms of '87 will become routine, creating an ongoing toll of infrastructure damage, disruption and deaths.
>> No. 442507 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 8:37 pm
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>>442506

I think even beyond that. It's easy to dismiss freak weather events as just temporary things. Some people die, others are on the move, it sucks but it's not apocalyptic.
What is apocalyptic is what this does to food supplies. You can't move fields. There are a limited number of places worldwide that export the majority of foodstuffs and they're all at risk. When the food supply chain breaks down, everything else does too. Same goes for our dwindling fresh-water supplies.


Only tangentially related but here's Chomsky talking last night.

>> No. 442508 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 8:37 pm
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>>442506
>the Malaysians have already started the process of moving their capital out of Jakarta
The Indonesians will be pleased.
>> No. 442509 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 9:17 pm
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>>442507
>Same goes for our dwindling fresh-water supplies.

This is the biggie. We are completely destroying the ocean and that only hastens everything else. As you say about supply chains too, ships are already struggling due to more extreme weather at sea making it harder to import/export, and that's happening right now.
>> No. 442510 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 9:22 pm
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>>442507

Saddam Hussein is looking rough these days.

>>442508

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I just googled "differences between Malaysia and Indonesia" and nobody seems to know. Indonesians are povvos and they've got slightly different styles of Batik, apparently. Malaysia has a Grand Prix? Answers on a postcard etc.
>> No. 442513 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 10:08 pm
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What kind of giga-pleb doesn't know about the Sepang Grand Prix? Moron.
>> No. 442514 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 11:12 pm
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>>442507

> Same goes for our dwindling fresh-water supplies.

I think the problem is more going to be their uneven distribution. Places like Central and especially Southeastern Europe are at risk of massive prolonged droughts, and we've seen some of it already, whereas the rise in sea
temperatures will mean far more evaporation which will be dumped down somewhere a thousand miles downwind in absolutely torrential rainfalls. This is going to be true especially for many areas in the Tropics.

And then in Britain, you will increasingly see years with both immense rain and then drought, all during the same vegetation period.

None of it is good. An absence of rainwater will make crop farming very difficult for obvious reasons, but extreme rainfall can wash away and denude soils, or rot crops, and thus equally make the production of food staples increasingly difficult.
>> No. 442515 Anonymous
23rd February 2021
Tuesday 11:58 pm
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>>442513

F1 is dull as piss and you know it. I haven't followed the formula for years, but let me guess what the news is: Hamilton won the Drivers Championship, Mercedes won the Constructors, Ferrari are moaning about the engine regulations because they want a "red cars get an extra 100hp" rule, one of the backmarker teams went tits-up because their headline sponsor turned out to be a Nigerian prince, there's some kind of cost control regulation that makes absolutely no difference and Red Bull have sacked another driver. Am I close?
>> No. 442645 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 10:33 am
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/27/climatologist-michael-e-mann-doomism-climate-crisis-interview
Good article from the point of view that it's not too late and that people who think it is are just giving up, which is what various petrostate oligarchs want you to do.
>> No. 442646 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 4:20 pm
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>>442645

Then again the plebs who write for the guardian seem to think that if a few middle class white people do more recycling and eat less meat we can somehow tip the balance against the machinations of globalised industry so it's probably not worth listening to anything they have to say on the subject.
>> No. 442647 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 4:23 pm
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>>442646

That's great but Michael Mann doesn't write for The Guardian, that link goes to something known as an "interview".
>> No. 442648 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 5:35 pm
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>>442647

Then you (or whoever) should post links to a more serious platform. The guardian has been nothing but an utter milquetoast embarrassment for the last fifteen years.
>> No. 442651 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 6:28 pm
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>>442648

Why don't you suggest one, seppo?
>> No. 442652 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 6:36 pm
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>>442648

Do you need me to copy and paste the interview to pastebin so next time you can read it before giving your opinion on it?
>> No. 442653 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 6:41 pm
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>>442651

Your "everyone who disagrees with me is an X" attitude is at least 100% more American than I am. Also "seppo" is a terrible contraction of "septic"; it always makes me think of "separatist" rather than "septic tank". Even "Sherman" is a better minor slur for our transatlantic inbred cousins.
>> No. 442654 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 6:45 pm
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>>442652

Archive.is would be fine. Thanks.

Although if he's not giving interviews to more serious scientific publications that you can link to it really probably isn't my (or anybody else's) time to be frank. Once you hit that level of banality you might as well just flick on the BBC and watch some Brian Cox style vox pop drivel written for room temperature IQ types who can't find the remote at the end of the One Show.

Sage.
>> No. 442655 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 6:46 pm
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>>442653
Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah. Call out that lad for seeing Americans everywhere as much as you like, but don't go complaining about the word Seppo.
>> No. 442657 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 7:11 pm
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>>442653

If you would simply stop perpetuating their repellent lexicon, you wouldn't have to complain, would you?
>> No. 442658 Anonymous
5th March 2021
Friday 7:50 pm
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>>442654
What exactly would the point of him giving interviews to "more serious scientific publications" be, when he's trying to address a wider audience and not just scientists? You're just doing a sour grapes routine now.
>> No. 442835 Anonymous
16th March 2021
Tuesday 8:45 am
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Lads, I have to say this is a rare case where I don't particularly care if it is an Americanism. 'Milquetoast' is an excellent word and it deserves a place in our dictionary. Hats off to the Yanks for inventing it.
>> No. 442836 Anonymous
16th March 2021
Tuesday 8:59 am
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>>442835
I, for one, quite enjoy a nice piece of hot buttered milktoast.
>> No. 442837 Anonymous
16th March 2021
Tuesday 9:39 am
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>>442835

It's shite and it looks vaguely French. We have enough words like that already.
>> No. 442838 Anonymous
16th March 2021
Tuesday 9:47 am
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>>442835

I prefer the yiddish term "nebbish", but I think it's quite telling that neither term is widely used in British English.
>> No. 442839 Anonymous
16th March 2021
Tuesday 9:52 am
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>>442837
"Vague" is a French loanword.
>> No. 442840 Anonymous
16th March 2021
Tuesday 10:00 am
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>>442839

And it's in common use because it's easier to drop into general conversation than something such as "nebulous". What's wrong with using "coward" or "wimp", besides missing out on the opportunity to be a smug cunt?
>> No. 442847 Anonymous
17th March 2021
Wednesday 6:01 am
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>>442840

>What's wrong with using "coward" or "wimp"

They don't quite convey the same meaning. "Milquetoast" or "nebbish" imply both cowardice and more general ineffectualness and lack of conviction.

The real joy of the English language is the huge expressive power that comes with our mongrel vocabulary. Whatever you're trying to say, there are likely a dozen different synonyms drawn from many different cultures, all with subtle shades of meaning. When we borrow words, we also borrow ways of seeing the world.
>> No. 442849 Anonymous
17th March 2021
Wednesday 9:26 am
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>>442847

I've personally always read "milquetoast" as bland and perhaps passive, rather than cowardly.
>> No. 442899 Anonymous
27th March 2021
Saturday 8:06 am
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>>442847
"Spineless" and "pushover" are a couple of other good terms in that sphere. "Lily livered" & "fainthearted" spring to mind also, lots of different anatomy to choose from. "Lily livered" is a Shakespeare original.
>> No. 443068 Anonymous
6th April 2021
Tuesday 9:00 pm
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https://newsroom.northumbria.ac.uk/pressreleases/evidence-of-antarctic-glaciers-tipping-point-confirmed-for-first-time-3087059

>Researchers have confirmed for the first time that Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica could cross tipping points, leading to a rapid and irreversible retreat which would have significant consequences for global sea level.

>Pine Island Glacier is a region of fast-flowing ice draining an area of West Antarctica approximately two thirds the size of the UK. The glacier is a particular cause for concern as it is losing more ice than any other glacier in Antarctica.

>Currently, Pine Island Glacier together with its neighbouring Thwaites glacier are responsible for about 10% of the ongoing increase in global sea level.


Pack your wellies, lads.

No, really, you're going to need them this time.
>> No. 443069 Anonymous
6th April 2021
Tuesday 9:11 pm
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>>443068
Blue Ocean soon. Things will get a lot worse before they might get better, but none of this is new and people still won't care.
>> No. 443070 Anonymous
6th April 2021
Tuesday 9:20 pm
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>>443069
Meanwhile everyone's wittering about how quirky of Britain it is that we had such hot weather followed by snow in the space of a week.
>> No. 443071 Anonymous
6th April 2021
Tuesday 9:27 pm
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>>443068
>Currently, Pine Island Glacier together with its neighbouring Thwaites glacier are responsible for about 10% of the ongoing increase in global sea level.

Good riddance I say. Let's get the hair dryers out!
>> No. 443077 Anonymous
7th April 2021
Wednesday 11:44 am
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>>443071

Indeed. We must ban glaciers.

If we outlaw glaciers, only outlaws will have glaciers.
>> No. 443078 Anonymous
7th April 2021
Wednesday 12:41 pm
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>>443068
Even the most doom saying predictions of sea level rise leave me above sea level, if the map predictions are to be believed.

I, for one, welcome my new seafront property.
>> No. 443079 Anonymous
7th April 2021
Wednesday 12:44 pm
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>>443078

And your new neighbours?
>> No. 443080 Anonymous
7th April 2021
Wednesday 1:26 pm
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>>443078

>I, for one, welcome my new seafront property.


Not all places are going to be equally hit, that's true.

I hope places like Brighton and Blackpool will get submerged entirely though.
>> No. 443310 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 1:27 pm
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Do you really care about the planet if your milk doesn't come from cows fed with ethically sourced organic seaweed?

https://www.theguardian.com/food/commentisfree/2021/apr/13/can-you-drink-milk-and-stay-ethical-im-desperate-to-work-out-how
>> No. 443314 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 2:08 pm
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>>443310

With out exageration, stopping cows from farting would do more to save us from global warming than if we banned cars tomorrow.
>> No. 443315 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 2:18 pm
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>>443314
Giving cows seaweed is toxic to them. It seems counterintuitive to poison a species for our benefit.
>> No. 443316 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 2:47 pm
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>>443315

My understanding was, some seaweed was poisionous to them not all, which is a very different concept.
>> No. 443317 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 2:53 pm
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>>443310
>Friends lose patience with my eco-anxiety: the responsibility, they say, lies with states and corporations, not us
Yes. Should be the end of her article. None of the problems she states are her fault. The seaweed milk should come in a glass bottle. The seaweed milk should come in single pints. The corner shop should stock seaweed milk. The council should recycle the oat milk packaging. She should be agitating for this shit instead of being filled with self-loathing.
>> No. 443318 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 2:55 pm
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>>443316
It's bromoform in the seaweed identified to reduce methane, asparagopsis taxiformis, that has been identified as potentially toxic to cows.
>> No. 443320 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 3:31 pm
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>>44331
>potentially

'potentially' in this context doesn't seem like a good enough justification. I assume the cows aren't falling over dead soon after they are given this stuff and seem to be to the casual observer living full normal cow lives.
>> No. 443321 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 3:52 pm
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>>443320
>'potentially' in this context doesn't seem like a good enough justification.

Who hurt you?
>> No. 443322 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 4:00 pm
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>>443317

>The seaweed milk should come in a glass bottle.

The environmental benefit of re-usable glass bottles is really marginal. They require much more energy to manufacture than plastic bottles and further energy is consumed by transporting and washing the used bottles. Glass bottles only win out if the re-use rate is substantially higher and/or the energy use is substantially lower than the current industry average. PET bottles are remarkably efficient if the bottles are recycled, but the best option might actually be Tetra-Pak cartons depending on how you interpret the data.

FWIW, I think that the panic over plastics is largely unwarranted and based mainly on the visibility of discarded plastics rather than the actual impact on the environment. We know that atmospheric CO2 is having truly catastrophic effects, but the evidence for substantial harms due to plastic pollution is really very weak beyond the obvious factor of larger marine animals becoming entangled in discarded fishing gear. I keep seeing people freak out about OMG THERE ARE MICROPLASTICS EVERYWHERE, but we don't really have any good evidence to suggest that microplastics are harmful to human health or have seriously negative impacts on the marine ecosystem.

https://www.lifecycleinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/UNEP_PLASTIC-BOTTLES-REPORT_29-JUNE-2020_final-low-res.pdf

https://digital.detritusjournal.com/articles/in-press/life-cycle-assessment-of-beverage-packaging/368

https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-pollution#how-does-plastic-impact-wildlife-and-human-health
>> No. 443323 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 4:02 pm
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>>443321

No one. It just seems like spurious bullshit, Aspartamine might be cancerous (even though multiple sudies have shown it not to be), bread might be bad for you (even though we have eaten it for generation and have started living to a hundred despite eating it), it is the worst kind of fear of the unknown reasoning when there is no proof at all that it is dangerous to them.
>> No. 443324 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 4:12 pm
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>>443322
>I keep seeing people freak out about OMG THERE ARE MICROPLASTICS EVERYWHERE, but we don't really have any good evidence to suggest that microplastics are harmful to human health or have seriously negative impacts on the marine ecosystem.


There is scientific inquiry into certain plastics affecting hormone levels in people, it is considered one of the probable causes of the obesity epidemic.
>> No. 443325 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 7:02 pm
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>>443322
>I keep seeing people freak out about OMG THERE ARE MICROPLASTICS EVERYWHERE, but we don't really have any good evidence to suggest that microplastics are harmful to human health or have seriously negative impacts on the marine ecosystem.

In the same way as we kept using asbestos and leaded petrol for decades after we knew there was a problem. Microplastics are orders of magnitude less harmful than those but evidence is slowly building up of the wide range of potential harms they can cause.
We're kind of fucked if we do nothing for 30 years and then entire ocean food chains collapse, not to mention the possibility of widespread health problems caused by increased ingestion of microplastics exposing us to more toxins and carcinogens.
>> No. 443326 Anonymous
13th April 2021
Tuesday 7:39 pm
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>>443325
>In the same way as we kept using asbestos and <s>leaded</s> petrol for decades after we knew there was a problem.
>> No. 443369 Anonymous
16th April 2021
Friday 1:37 pm
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>>443325

>Microplastics are orders of magnitude less harmful than those but evidence is slowly building up of the wide range of potential harms they can cause.

There's still a difference in particle size between microplastics and nanoplastics. Microplastics are considered to be anything that's 5mm or smaller. A 5mm microplastic particle can cause serious harm to wildlife, because a handful of them can obstruct the digestive tract especially in smaller animals, and lead to great suffering and premature death. Nanoplastics, on the other hand, are particles that are about 1000 nm or less. They behave in a much different way and are generally excreted harmlessly by a life form that ingests them. But they're not without problems, especially from the chemical compounds they can release into an organism as they break down further.

Eventually, on a long-enough timescale, almost all plastic waste and microplastics will degrade into nanoplastics. So if we stopped producing plastic waste today and stopped throwing it in the oceans, most of it would degrade into nanoplastics and then disappear within about 1000 years. And the larger chunks of plastic that end up on an ocean floor somewhere a few miles deep at near-freezing temperature would probably also eventually be covered up by sediment.

The Earth still has self-cleaning capabilities. We just have to stop inundating the environment with plastic waste and give it enough time to get rid of it on its own. A thousand years is nothing for a planet like ours, but we as a species don't have that long to tackle the problem.

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