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|>>|| No. 425684
So am I the only one who is getting a bit annoyed by this whole Greta Thunberg cult, or am I just too much of a cold hearted cynic that the world would be better off without?
I don't doubt the legitimate concern of her generation over climate change, after all it will fall to them to sort out the utter fucking mess that we have left the planet in, but all the awards that she is now being showered with are IMO just middle aged and old people's guilt over their own failure to save the planet's climate despite having had decades of prior warning, and who lost their way and succumbed to high carbon footprint consumerism somewhere between 1990s road protest villages and today's school runs in a 4x4. None of it feels sincere or genuine, it's more like, yeah, just take all these awards and shut the hell up already.
And parents whose children now protest every Friday or so are now engaging in pissing matches on twitter and Instagram to show off which one of their kids gets the most involved. As one commenter said, nothing good has ever come of a youth protest movement that was applauded by parents.
|>>|| No. 429636
Am I the only one who thinks Greta is an irritating little do-gooder aspiefag who should be sat at home playing Roblox like other kids her age?
|>>|| No. 429638
No, I kind of gravitate towards that opinion myself. Climate change itself is real and it's a real threat to our civilisation, but there's climate activism, and there's becoming a media circus whore because your parents are well connected to PR and advertising firms.
Greta Thunberg, besides her dogged determination that is a mark of Asperger's in and of itself, has very little to teach the world about actual climate change. That is the job of seasoned climatologists, not of a 16-year-old who reads National Geographic articles online after school every day.
I'm not saying there is no value at all in parading her around as a figurehead. If that is what it takes to get the attention of politicians and climate change skeptics, then so be it. But I still find her and her whole campaign just fucking annoying at this point.
|>>|| No. 429642
>Greta Thunberg, besides her dogged determination that is a mark of Asperger's in and of itself, has very little to teach the world about actual climate change.
She has plenty to teach, because most people still know the square root of fuck all about climate change. The most important facts don't need any great amount of expertise to communicate - the fact that this is an emergency, that a lot of people are going to die as a result of climate change, that we need to make radical changes in our lifestyles and economy to avert the worst damage and that the window of opportunity for meaningful action is very brief. If Thunberg can convince some people of those unpalatable facts, then more power to her.
|>>|| No. 429649
Again, not disagreeing with you on the fact that people need to be made aware of all those things.
I've just grown tired of Greta Thunberg, is all.
|>>|| No. 429650
Yeah well we heard you and others like you the first time i.e. nine hundred posts and four months ago.
|>>|| No. 429652
So we're the cunts for not being on board with the idea that you can't go wrong, and are on an unassailable moral high road with a 16-year-old, child-faced sperg as a poster child?
|>>|| No. 429657
Thunberg is not the issue. Climate change is the issue. We must not allow petty arguments about a child distract us from that issue; frankly, we should be quite ashamed that a child is doing a better job of pressing that issue than our elected representatives.
|>>|| No. 429659
> we should be quite ashamed that a child is doing a better job of pressing that issue than our elected representatives.
And that is exactly part of the whole marketing campaign. To make people feel guilty that way. You may say, whatever works, but the nit picking cunt in me just won't be satisfied with that.
Then again, you're not completely wrong that the adult generation are failing society in that respect. It kind of becomes understandable, but not forgivable in any way, when you look at the way that politicians and decision makers are constantly being lobbied and greased by all kinds of interest groups. And as a politician of one of the mainstream parties, it is especially difficult to refuse to toe the party line on the issue, that party line more often than not being precisely the result of different lobbying and economic interest groups weighing in on the issue who are in bed with those parties.
|>>|| No. 429661
>Thunberg is not the issue. Climate change is the issue.
Put those goalposts down, lad.
|>>|| No. 429748
Mourners have gathered in Iceland to commemorate the loss of Okjokull, which has died at the age of about 700.
The glacier was officially declared dead in 2014 when it was no longer thick enough to move.
What once was glacier has been reduced to a small patch of ice atop a volcano.
Prime Minister Katrin Jakobsdottir, Environment Minister Gudmundur Ingi Gudbrandsson and former Irish President Mary Robinson attended the ceremony.
|>>|| No. 429811
It was multiple deliberate acts. There is no apparent about it. A anti environmentalist leader just came to power and sacked everyone who remotely cared about environmental control and the farmers celebrated by burning the rain forests so that they could seize the land.
|>>|| No. 429814
> amazon rainforest
Blimey. I thought for a split second that that's some kind of new service that comes with your Amazon Prime subscription.
|>>|| No. 429817
The amazon has been burning for a long time.
The environmentalist movement of past decades was pretty successful in hugely limiting the trade of wood from trees felled in the rainforest.
This left the Brazilian people pretty pissed off, and instead of felling trees they all moved to growing palm oil and soybeans and raising cattle for beef. Which of course meant simply burning down vast swathes of rainforest.
It's somewhat worse this year because a lot of regulations have been cut back and powers stripped away from their environmental protection agency. But excluding the last year or two it's been on an upward trend for a long time anyway.
|>>|| No. 429818
None of which is a reason to be less alarmed by it, more that we should have been alarmed by it earlier.
|>>|| No. 429819
To quote a certain
>But while the depressingly familiar numbness that you may be currently feeling can help you handle the pain in the short term, in the long term it can actually be a real problem because unless something hurts as much as it’s supposed to, nothing gets done about it.
Basically, we've normalised the wanton destruction of our environment, and as a result we're fucked.
|>>|| No. 429825
And yet, I can't help but feel it's a bit hypocritical for us, in first world nations with our heavy industry, who completely deforested our countries century or more ago, are trying to tell Brazil they're not allowed.
I mean yes it's horrible that the Amazon, the last real example of such biodiversity on the planet, is being destroyed. But you can see why it would fall on deaf ears of these farmers when we're telling them to stop doing what they see as putting food on the table. Just another example of the haves moralising over the have nots.
It's all fucked up.
|>>|| No. 429826
The question is indeed if we have a right to tell emerging third-world economies that they must not aspire to the same standard of living that we enjoy because it would be ecologically unsustainable.
"Do as I say, don't do as I do" has never been a very honest position to have. Despite all valid environmental considerations in this case.
|>>|| No. 429827
>emerging third-world economies
That reminds me. Someone I went to school with, who now lives in Australia and refers to Britain as "across the pond", keeps saying "third world problems" when she means "first world problems." Boils my piss it does.
|>>|| No. 429828
I've got the price list from my timber merchant here and I've just scanned it for Brazilian species. £40 per cubic foot for ipe, £82.50 per cubic foot for marpleheart, £150 per cubic foot for genuine mahogany, £285 per cubic foot for santos rosewood.
I shudder to think of how much quality timber is going up in smoke as we speak. Is there an ethnic slur for Brazilians? Because I'd quite like to use one.
|>>|| No. 429830
It's shocking isn't it. Just think of how many Gibson guitars could be made out of all that...
|>>|| No. 429831
> Is there an ethnic slur for Brazilians?
South Americans are sometimes collectively referred to as jungle n*ggers.
.gs won't let you type out the N word, it results in an automatic ban, but you probably get my meaning.
|>>|| No. 429833
I'm not sure about a slur, but if you want to really annoy them just tell them Pele was shite and Messi is much better.
|>>|| No. 429834
I think you'll find that my comment was actually a dry and witty retort about the nature of consumerism, and the priorities of first world citizens.
You must be thick.
|>>|| No. 429835
I think it is immaterial to dredge up the past this is a situation where the very existence of human life on earth is at stake if they are allowed to achieve their goals. All of your riding your bike to work and having a reusable bottle will be quite immaterial if they succeed. The science says they will start a feed back loop that will turn the entire amazon into a polar before they even realise what they have done.
I dont think a unilateral declaration of war to set up environmental protection would be uncalled for if they dont pack it in soon.
|>>|| No. 429837
Oh ah ha because eskimos worship The Great White Whale in their igloos and live in the polar
|>>|| No. 429838
>because eskimos worship The Great White Whale in their igloos and live in the polar
They do though.
And fisherpersons will agree, even if you give them a bit of their own drugs. Even in Scunthorpe . cup of tea in a teapot maybe, but blame it on Sea Shepherd Conservation Society.
|>>|| No. 429839
I have to say this post left me thoroughly WITH NOTHING TO SAY BECAUSE I AM A CUNT!
|>>|| No. 429843
I have a bag of spuds, when did the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society worshiping The Great White Whale become acceptable around here.
|>>|| No. 429849
That is true. Hand-wringing about colonialism is a bit of a moot point if they kill all of us. It's not as though they'd have a lifestyle like our current one if that happens.
|>>|| No. 429851
I say "they" as though we're not also contributing to/perpetuating the system that's giving them cause to do it.
|>>|| No. 429857
The problems that the Amazon faces are population growth and illegal logging. Worldwide, in regions where there is still rainforest, you also have the highest population growth. These people all need places to live. And you can't just put them all in tower blocks on the outskirts of Caracas or Rio de Janeiro. It's usually rural or semi-rural human populations that
bonk like rabbits have the highest growth, and if a rainforest village or small town needs more space for new houses, they will just deforest another few acres.
Also, despite the obvious way that the rainforest is good for the planet and all human economic activity, there really isn't much economic value to be derived from an actual tract of rainforest. The handful of eco tourists that you can guide through it give you a tiny revenue compared to the market value of all the tropical wood on it. And relabelling that illegally logged wood and making it appear legit is still very easy in those countries. And once the forest is turned into arable land, you can grow cash crops on it or use it for cattle grazing and then sell the beef on the world market at a premium. All the growing population does need a source of income.
From the perspective of a poor labourer or a cattle farmer in the Amazon, our point that we tell them "please don't touch the rainforests because we here in the Global North don't want to have too much climate change" really isn't that convincing. Between that and having to put food on your family's table in a village five hours outside Manaus, we will always be the condescending Global Northerners telling them they can't have the same lifestyle as us. And in a way they're right to point out our hypocrisy, because some 2,000 years ago, people in Britain did the exact same things. Nearly all of Britain used to be covered by dense forest, until people decided they needed the wood for their buildings and fireplaces, and the land to grow crops and farm livestock on.
|>>|| No. 429858
>I say "they" as though we're not also contributing to/perpetuating the system that's giving them cause to do it.
We aren't and the system isn't. The reason they are burning the jungle down is that we all made a point of not buying the wood from it, the system is doing what it can to stop them by making the jungle unsellable. Yet they are still doubling down on stupidity out of greed.
|>>|| No. 429859
The Amazon can be (and is) legally logged. The high value hardwoods are slow-growing, but they can be sustainably managed through logging quotas, selective logging (grading a tree before it's logged and only taking it if it'll yield high-quality timber) and replanting programmes.
The problems of the Amazon are overwhelmingly of lawlessness and short-sighted governance. You don't need skilled foresters to just burn a tract of rainforest for cattle grazing. If you're a poacher just looking to turn a quick profit, you're not going to spend the time and effort to sustainably harvest timber - if you don't cut everything down, some other bugger will.
Some countries are doing a brilliant job of managing old-growth hardwood forests, because they understand that they're a golden goose. Brazil was for a brief period one of those countries, passing meaningful legislation and working internationally to protect the value of their timber resources.
|>>|| No. 429860
These are not poor helpless people doing this, farm owners lover to pretend they are the salt of the earth but they bloody aren't they are robber barons. It is just a convienat narative to sleep at night instead of facing the fact you are a cunt who is fucking the whole world over.
|>>|| No. 429861
>These are not poor helpless people doing this, farm owners lover to pretend they are the salt of the earth but they bloody aren't they are robber barons.
Not all farm owners are latifundios. As in many parts of the world, a farm can consist of ten cows and five chickens where the farmers live pretty much hand to mouth.
|>>|| No. 429863
If they're doubling down in a way that harms the jungle while also giving them profit, then that profit is still coming from the system.
|>>|| No. 429881
There is really very little as external forces we can do that isnt entirely invasive. Other then tell them we won't buy it to which their conclusion will be to burn more rain forests since they need to grow even more to make as much money as the used to.
The systematic problems aren't coming from outside but from within Brazil it self.
At the moment I am trying to assess if you are one of those left wing nutters that believes that all human failings are the result of a bad system we have designed as opposed to the result of people just being shitty. À la all that declining salmon populations bollocks.
|>>|| No. 429886
Right, right. Them burning more or less in order to appease external market forces obviously has nothing at all to do with anything outside Brazil. It's all because the farmers are shitty people. This is the big brain conclusion of someone who spends more time trying to figure out how to stereotype the person they're talking to than whether what they're saying makes any sense at all.
|>>|| No. 429887
>burning more or less in order to appease external market forces
Except that's not what they're doing.
|>>|| No. 429888
So their economy is entirely self-contained and they aren't exporting vast quantities of beef or soy?
|>>|| No. 429889
>Eat less beef
Get to fuck, lad. You can have my steak when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
|>>|| No. 429890
Killing you to stop you eating so much beef would be justifiably moral self defence at this point.
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