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|>>|| No. 24640
Tell us about your guys / campaign / project, etc.
|>>|| No. 25011
I actually haven't done much over the last couple of months, my OCD cycle has me focussed on other things at the minute. I was half way through a squad of marines and the switch flicked, simply put down the brushes and never went back to it.
I expect I'll get back to it when the weather starts turning grim again.
|>>|| No. 25012
I took a sudden turn from 40k to Age of Sigmar and from there to Middle Earth/Lord of the Rings because frankly I was getting bored of mass battle games and I love the old LotR designs.
The MESBG rules are actually great fun too, heroes are suitably heroic and monsters have some very fun rules and ebay is full of cheap plastic minis if you bide your time and wait for the good lots to show up. Helps that I'm doing Moria goblins, they're very splodgy single piece plastics but I like them for whatever reason. A dream to paint too as you can blast through tons in no time as they're tiny.
I'm very tempted to get some historical minis currently. Victrix have some excellent plastics going, and being historicals of course you get nearly 3 times as many minis for your money as you do from GW.
|>>|| No. 25133
Had my first game in a LONG time today. Got absolutely blasted by his Admech but had a right laugh. Christ they're strong ATM.
|>>|| No. 25135
>buy 1 hexfire box for 105
>not interested in TS
>sell on ebay for 59.99 with free postage
>a mercenary group of 300 autists decides to bring me down
I won him around in the end by pointing out the 4 quid 'premium' on the price he deems fair probably isn't worth sending the adeptus autistes at me.
|>>|| No. 25139
I've noticed on his own profile he's selling a MTG for its market value (45 quid), and not 1/15th of the price of the pack it came in. Dirty scalper!
|>>|| No. 25141
I used to gripe and complain about warhammer quite a lot because of the absurd pricing model but I've tended to stop now as any legitimate complaints are lost in a sea of idiot complaints and people confidently asserting things that are wrong.
That and discussions about miniatures quality are very up to personal taste, even when I think I'm making a solid point about official kits just fucking nuking all the spare bits and customisation options on some new releases.
Oh no, I accidentally complained again.
The best solution I find is just to force people to play lower point games with me as competitive tournament points games are just driven by the aul moneymaking machinery making people buy new things.
|>>|| No. 25142
>just to force people to play lower point games
Killquads seem cool - easy access for those with a small wallet and (probably) just as fun. Fuck paying out for a whole army.
|>>|| No. 25143
I've been on the fuck paying for a 1000 point army bandwagon for a long time. It seems as soon as an army has new codex it becomes the most powerful army. This power creep continues until a new edition is released. Only for the cycle to continue. You only have to look at how short the cycle between editions has become.
It's because of this that I am holding off on jumping on the Kill Squad train. I want to see how well supported the game is. I have got a Skaven warband for Mordheim ready to. I am just now trying to arrange a game of it.
|>>|| No. 25144
The thing I don't like is I'd like to practice my painting on the models. But with how expensive they are, I can't exactly be wasting my money like that. As it is I'm terrified of messing up my 60 quid box of plastic.
|>>|| No. 25146
So what, dunk them in that overnight then rinse it off? Won't it damage the finer details of the model?
|>>|| No. 25147
I have left models in it for about an hour rinsed them off and given them a scrub with a toothbrush. It appears to be some sort of enzyme that eats away at the paint and leaves the plastic.
|>>|| No. 25148
Methylated spirits or other similarly strong alcohol solvents will work quite worry-free on plastic minis. Takes some manual scrubbing with a soft toothbrush to get all the paint off though as it seems to just dissolve the resin in acrylics leaving the paint mostly intact until you rub it.
|>>|| No. 25150
Why bother all the harsh chemicals when regular old Dettol does the job? Works a charm.
As for ruining models by painting them badly, you've just got to take the plunge at some point. Maybe get some cheap eBay minis if you're that worried, but frankly, don't be. Cheesy thing to say, but don't let perfect be the enemy of good and all that.
The most important thing, IMO, is don't try to run before you can walk. You won't fuck anything up if you concentrate on painting neatly "inside the lines" at first, and forget all the 'Eavy Metal shit. That way, the very worst outcome is you'll have some okay looking but rather plain models, which you can then touch up later on down the line as you get better at the details.
Pic is my progress since I started the hobby up again maybe three or four years ago.
|>>|| No. 25151
Why bother all the harsh chemicals when regular old Dettol does the job? Works a charm.
The last time I used Dettol on some minis I bought from Ebay after soaking them overnight I only gave them a scrub and most of it didn't shift. So I left them soaking in it for the rest of the day. After I took them out they had lost some of the details on the miniature.
|>>|| No. 25152
The only thing it doesn't work on is spray paint, and if that was the case then it's more likely the chemicals in the paint itself are what eroded the plastic. Any regular acrylic will melt right off. If the previous owner varnished the models you will struggle, but anything strong enough to get through that will definitely fuck the plastic too.
This was the beauty of metal models- You could always just chuck them in turps or white spirit and not give a fuck.
|>>|| No. 25153
The models weren't varnished, but the paint had been absolutely globbed on and it was definitely a younglads first go at painting.
Whilst metal models were great for some things, they were an absolute pain when certain models were badly cast. Taking a metal file to them, or filling in gaps to get stuff to fit snug was a pain. That and stuff like a Gorkamorka DEFFKOPTA where the rotors would fall off all the damn time.
|>>|| No. 25156
Half my collection are still metal models for this reason, and nice metal casts feel great to play with. Positively beefy feeling in your hands.
|>>|| No. 25160
In my head, the archetypal .gs poster is big into 40k. I wonder if it's the same for anyone else. (Along with Terry Pratchett, for some reason).
|>>|| No. 25161
Must just be you two. Nobody who knows me would be surprised if I spent my time painting little guys, but I don't. Shitposting here takes my few spare minutes a day.
If I won the lottery and ran out of things to build, I guess I'd get the tiny brushes out. But only after I'd built a tiny-brush-wielding robot. Because fuck painting when there's robot building to be done.
Much of my current angst is based on being too busy doing menial shitwork to have time to build machines to automate said shitwork.
Obviously, though, I rate Pratchett highly and am burning through audiobooks while driving.
Well, you asked.
|>>|| No. 25162
Fuck off, I'm in me shed doing manly things like planning next year's flowers.
|>>|| No. 25164
I've posted the most actual models in this thread and I'm not even that big into it. I get into a big painting hype once every two or three months, then I forget about it for a bit. I only actually play the game once in a blue moon.
I reckon any British nerd worth his stripes has been through Games Workshop's vices at least once, however.
|>>|| No. 25166
I looked at the top torrents in the physibles category (files for 3D printers) on the Pirate Bay expecting it to be all TTG minis, but the top 10 torrents are guns and dildos. Go figure.
|>>|| No. 25167
That's probably because 3D printing really isn't quite there in terms of YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A PRIMARIS™️ SPACE MARINE™️.
It's just expensive enough to get into that it doesn't make sense if you just want to print a couple of Leman Russes, and it's just enough of a step down in detail and quality compared to the real thing that the enthusiasts turn their nose up.
3D printer fags get really defensive about this for some reason, but the truth of 3D printing is it'll always remain more of a hobby in itself than a replacement for traditional manufacturing, for the same reason the inkjet printer didn't send traditional book publishers out of business.
|>>|| No. 25168
Warhammer figures cost too much money and from what I hear GW can be quite anti-fun when it doesn't involve boosting the old profit margin.
|>>|| No. 25169
>but the truth of 3D printing is it'll always remain more of a hobby in itself than a replacement for traditional manufacturing
I'm intrigued. Everything I've read has said that 3d printing companies are a good long-term bet for investments, particularly as they're putting so much into space these days.
|>>|| No. 25170
It definitely has its place, but when it comes to replicating huge numbers of something by the fastest, most cost efficient method, it's not really suitable.
And not to mention the fact it only works for objects that are just shapes made out of plastic. There's an awful lot of things out there which are not just shapes made of plastic.
|>>|| No. 25171
>3D printer fags get really defensive about this for some reason, but the truth of 3D printing is it'll always remain more of a hobby
Glad I'm not the only one apparently mystified on what people use them for.
|>>|| No. 25172
I love mine, and probably print more 3D things than I do sheets of paper these days.
Things I'm designing for work, little sciency stuff, small models of bigger things I'm working on in CAD because there's nothing quite like holding a model. Repair bits for broken stuff, things that are essentially just toys.
The work stuff allows a much higher tempo of releases, no waiting for tooling and a manufacturing run, just press go. It's still not as good as a proper ABS or PC part, but it'll generally do for a while.
Places where I'd usually want an XYZ stage to move two things relative to each other, I'll mostly just print a derivative of this
with fixtures for the things I want to move built in, rather than spending a vast amount on stages and getting fixtures machined or machining my own.
Also recently been printing blood vessels for a catheter development project, would be a right pain without 3d printing.
(I'm the chap who excitedly posted about my ultimaker in /uhu/ ages ago. I now also have a DLP resin printer, and now work for a massive company with a fuckload of 3D printing resources I can call on.)
|>>|| No. 25173
The technology most people think of when they hear the word "3D printing" is Fused Filament Fabrication - taking a big roll of plastic string and squeezing it out of a hot nozzle. FFF is cheap, it's fairly easy to get started with, but it's plagued with reliability issues and the print quality is pretty crap. I own an FFF printer but rarely use it, because there are just too many caveats on what can be printed.
Affordable mSLA printers hit the market a couple of years ago, which has really changed the game for miniature hobbyists. mSLA printers use UV-sensitive resin and a high-resolution LCD, which can produce parts of similar quality to injection moulding.
There's a bit of a barrier to entry because you've got to deal with some reasonably unpleasant chemicals, but once you've got the hang of things it's absolutely piss-easy to get good prints. UV resins used to be limited in their applications because of brittleness, but there are now a wide range of resins including toughened, elastic and even castable wax resin.
You can get an entry-level mSLA printer for well under £200 these days, which is practically a no-brainer if you're the kind of person who spends £60 on a box of toy soldiers or a model train. My own mSLA printer gets a lot of use and I'm planning on buying a bigger one, because it's incredibly useful to me to be able to produce dimensionally-accurate prototypes and replacement parts.
There are a host of industrial 3D printing technologies that produce genuinely useful parts. Broadly speaking, the marketing twats use the term "3D printing" when they're trying to rinse money from investors and "additive manufacturing" when they're trying to actually sell machines to engineers. Powder Bed Fusion machines can produce metal parts with extreme geometric complexity that would be impossible to machine using traditional processes.
Dentistry is pretty much the only field to have been truly revolutionised by 3D printing, which illustrates the uses and limitations of additive manufacturing. A denture or aligner is geometrically complex and has to be custom made for each patient, so these parts are perfectly suited for 3D printing.
3D printing is never going to replace conventional manufacturing techniques, but it can be a very useful tool for people with the skills to use it effectively and the need to make small quantities of unusual parts. There's a lot of ridiculous hype being pushed by ignorant amateurs, but bona-fide engineers are now doing useful work with 3D printers.
|>>|| No. 25174
>which can produce parts of similar quality to injection moulding.
They really can't though. I'm sorry, but they simply don't, that was what I was getting at- It's close, but it's just shy of being good enough.
3D printers make results comparable with most non-GW minis, but there's a reason GW are the biggest in the business and every single other miniature manufacture is still pissing about with shite resin and metal batch processes.
Their minis genuinely are on another level in terms of detail, and 3D printers haven't matched it yet. Not for £200 they haven't. Which brings me to:
>You can get an entry-level mSLA printer for well under £200 these days, which is practically a no-brainer if you're the kind of person who spends £60 on a box of toy soldiers or a model train
I mean... It's not though, is it. It's a lot of faffing about, when for the same £200 you could have bought said box of soldiers three and a bit times over. I think most people would rather just buy them. The cost saving aspect only comes into it if you want to print a full 2000+ point army, and if you're that invested in the hobby, you're probably well past the point of being a cheapskate about it.
3D printing terrain for your table, prototyping parts for conversions, or making custom weapons or what have you... That's a totally different matter. In that aspect 3D printing is a complete gift from god. But until it's literally a Star Trek style replicator that makes a fully formed, perfectly accurate Space Marine out of thin air, the dream of physical piracy is still merely that: A dream.
|>>|| No. 25175
>>25173 There's a lot of ridiculous hype being pushed by ignorant amateurs,
3D printing is understandable magic for the masses, so you have to expect hype. I was peripherally involved in what turned out to be a pump&dump operation running in the UK with USA shares. There are a few post mortems of it on the web, everyone who could see what was going on was calling it, but they sent out enough glossy brochures to get rid of a lot of shares at a serious price before folding hard. They paid my invoices on time and in full, and I still have a box of spare 3D printer control PCBs that I'm working my way through on various projects.
|>>|| No. 25176
>They really can't though. I'm sorry, but they simply don't, that was what I was getting at- It's close, but it's just shy of being good enough.
Toy soldiers are not my field of expertise, but you'll need very good eyes and/or magnification to tell the difference between a good resin print and an injection moulded part. Indeed, we're now routinely using printed mould tooling in industry for short runs.
Setting aside questions of cheapskatery or piracy, an mSLA printer is just outrageously useful for anyone who makes small things. Compared to the effort that modellers put into building and painting kits, printing your own bits is pretty trivial.
|>>|| No. 25177
Give printing the toy soldiers a try and you'll suddenly realise what I mean. It's really not as simple as feeding the computer a file and some nice high quality models coming out. For something like whatever the fuck that is in your picture, there's no overlapped parts, no tiny little eyes or fingers or folds of clothing. There's a whole load of faffing about just to make it printable, then you've got to figure out how best to clean it up without just melting it.
Honestly I have to conclude that the people who say home 3D printers are on par with miniatures like Games Workshop makes just actually haven't actually seen the level of detail in a contemporary Warhammer model. I can only assume they are speaking from their memories of the chunky mid 90s ones, which fair play, you can match; but the stuff they've been doing over the last decade is on another level. You're not getting that out of a £200 printer.
It's worth pointing out that they do, of course, use 3D printers as part of the modern manufacturing process when they're prototyping their models from CAD designs, which is an entirely different workflow to the hand-carved figures you'd have been replicating in the 90s. But those things are much, much more expensive than what you have set up in your garage. Maybe in another decade or two home machines will be at that level, and then this conversation changes.
|>>|| No. 25178
>>25177 Chuck us a model and I'll have a crack.
If your experience of 3D printers has been FDM (filament) printing, the UV resin printers are profoundly different. They have their own problems, sure, but they're better suited to printing things like these than even the best FDM printers.
My resin printer isn't well suited for this, though - I opted for a bigger build volume one, rather than highest resolution, so arbitrary surfaces have obvious pixels under a microscope, and look rough rather than polished to the naked eye. Since the resin can clearly manage higher resolutions than the LCD panel, I assume that a smaller LCD panel would get you all the way to 10um resolution, which counts as smooth in most worlds, or maybe better for 'polished'
You can always play post-process games with a sprayed or dipped layer of something to smooth out the prints before painting, but that's another process.
|>>|| No. 25179
>You can always play post-process games with a sprayed or dipped layer of something to smooth out the prints before painting, but that's another process.
The best results I have seen have done it this way, but it's still a noticeable reduction in quality compared to "real" models.
The problem is that the painting techniques you use to get a clean look rely on very sharp edges and recesses, for shading to settle in and highlights to pick out. It only takes a very, very subtle rounding of an edge to totally lose the effect.
Take this one for example. Looks perfectly fine unpainted, you can see a few rough spots, but you'd probably say "Ah well, it's good enough isn't it? You have to look closely to see." But, when you start painting it and the Nuln Oil gets in there, it's going to look like complete fucking shit.
I mean if you're a shit painter anyway you might as well knock yourself out; but when such a large part of the hobby is the pursuit of becoming a good painter, I would wager that's a significant part of the reason 3D printing isn't bigger.
>Chuck us a model and I'll have a crack
I would have pointed you to the subreddit that housed all the files, but it's recently gone under, lol. The lawyers have been on a rampage spoiling everyone's fun recently.
|>>|| No. 25180
good grief, tell me they don't injection mould those? I don't know where you'd start...
Some of those defects look like they may be in the (scanned?) data? But yes, it could certainly be better.
We've had some demo pieces in from people trying to sell us eyewateringly expensive printers which would trounce this - but as we're discussing £200 printers, that doesn't count.
|>>|| No. 25181
They're moulded as multi-part kits, but I still don't envy their toolmakers.
|>>|| No. 25182
For reference this is what the sprue would look like for a real one of those. The reason all the bits are in such a seemingly random order is to optimise the layout for injection moulding.
The obvious complexity here is the reason older models from the hand-made days had much simpler poses. Now that they use CAD instead, you can make whatever kind of model you like and just have the computer figure out how to slice it up.
|>>|| No. 25183
I really don't like these types of sprues, they're cropping up more and more and are a pig to work with for bits and converting. I don't mind monopose too much (my armies are mostly all currently old metals) but it's a bit weird seeing them revert to that style from the old more customisable stuff that was being introduced from 3rd edition or so.
The most blatant example in my mind is recently the skeleton warriors update. The old kit was possibly the finest collection of bones and ancient accessories made for tabletop, whereas the new kit builds exactly 10 specific models with an alternative weapon option (that is actually meaningless in game for some fucking bizarre reason) and nary a spare head to use on other things.
|>>|| No. 25184
To spell out my groggy complaining, per 10 skeletons the new kits gives you 10 spare of the weapons you didn't use and nothing else. And no musician. The fuckers.
The old kit gave you 24 various skulls, 12 spears, 13 swords, 17 shields, a banner bearer, 11 or 12 torsos
and my favourite - a trumpet musician. On the same size of sprue. Fuckin annoying losing all that goodness.
|>>|| No. 25185
As always with Games Workshop, every step forwards is always accompanied by two steps backwards.
They've developed a nasty habit of re-writing the rules for 40k units so that you can only give them what they come with in the box. It's usually an incredibly illogical loadout that doesn't work well in game, where normally the trick was you'd buy a couple of boxes to make a set of each.
It's hard to tell where the logic was with that kind of stuff, because it actually goes against the usual understandable "well they just want you to buy more innit" rationalisation.
|>>|| No. 25186
Everyone would end up buying a box or 2 of those old skeleton warriors. They were so flexible in their use that they would be used for basing models or, modding vehicles and generally sticking skulls on stuff. The new skeletons, apart from looking to be a bit bigger are a step backward in their lack of poseability.
|>>|| No. 25187
As a younglad I remember using a spare head and an arm or two as a skeleton 'rising up out of the ground'.
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