No. 13598Anonymous 18th November 2020 Wednesday 12:55 pm13598Just got 5 people sacked at work (1/3 of the firm). Feels a bit weird.
Hi gents,
Just woke up to a message from a colleague that he'd been suspended with pay, along with 4 other people including me, from our accountancy firm. He's fairly certain we're on the fast track to the sack. Excuse me if I ramble slightly.
We have a slack chat (yes, this is predictable) that I set up a few years ago, and that we got complacent about using in work outside of Microsoft Teams to coordinate, and sometimes vent about our boss. Over the years we became less careful and more vitriolic, and finally I was furloughed on a weekend and didn't go back into the office due to pandemic, leaving my work computer locked and logged on with a slack window open somewhere. Dum dum duhhhm. Everyone on it gets a call from HR warning of suspension, apart from the newest guy who gets terminated.
So, 2 of them are elated. They described it as being in a toxic relationship and suddenly having it ended for you. The 3rd guy was on the ropes with his relationship with our boss, who wasn't happy with his output and has been looking at sacking for a while, while the fourth guy is newly joined, basically trusted that he was being let into something secure, and I now feel very bad about him. We have contacts, we can provide references, so he's going to be able to get something else. Since he was so new he's been terminated for 'rude messages' apparently, officially 'misconduct'. Personally I was already looking for jobs because I've just hit my 2 year and that was my limit.
I'm about to go for a joint and buy a beer and sit watching Star Trek while it all seeps in. I've changed the password and deleted the workspace so nothing more can be collected, if anything was. I hope to god the boss has got some screenshots otherwise I might be tempted to ask for proof and be a dick about it. Anyway, he probably has so he can pass them on to HR. How does one prepare for a meeting where you know that someone you have absolutely no respect for is going to try and make you feel bad for mocking them? Also, if I'm on furlough and the HR lady is calling me on whatsapp, am I under any obligation to answer?
He's literally got 1/3 of his staff on line for the sack. He heard a few weeks ago of a woman who had £250,000 worth of client turnover and was doing the whole thing herself on Xero, so now he thinks "I have a million quid turnover, surely I can do this with 4 people", forgetting that she has dictated the client relationships and records processes from the start, whereas half our clients are builders or mechanics whose idea of good recordkeeping is to make sure that only half the crumpled receipt is covered in splotches. It's all going to end in flames for him, the remaining seniors are leaving as soon as their 2 years are up. Everyone who's been suspended is prodding at the idea of whistleblowing (our boss engages in dodgy practices) now that we have nothing to lose. Also leaving glassdoor reviews.
Anyway, I digress. I've got some jobs to look at now! Feel free to call me a twat for not practising good opsec.
>How does one prepare for a meeting where you know that someone you have absolutely no respect for is going to try and make you feel bad for mocking them?
Practise keeping your mouth shut and raising your eyebrow?
We have casual records of abuse/inappropriate behaviour towards staff, though that being said a lot of it was on the deleted slack server. Probably should have saved that prior to deletion...
They sacked someone a few weeks ago, one of the secretarial staff. It's a father and son firm, she was told by the father to do something, then told not to do it by the son. It went undone, and the father kicked off at her, was screaming at her, made her cry etc, so the son called her in to apologise and send her home on paid leave. He then contacted her telling her she was being let go, because the relationship with the father was too strained. Her husband then confronted the father a bit later when he bumped into him in a restaurant, basically asking his opinion on each event of the situation very loudly, so everyone could hear the father squirm.
He later came to tell each staff member individually that he was sorry for shouting, but 'she was very rude'.
Then the other secretary, a former family friend, quit due to dissatisfaction. Another of the junior accountants left a week later due to getting a job in carpentry...so before this and that, there were maybe 15 staff on full time.
I also went to him with a bullying complaint, as one of the staff members was doing my tits in by slagging me off to trainees whom I was responsible for, telling them not to go to me with questions etc, abusing me in front of other staff when I wasn't in the office. Not having that so figured to nip it in the bud, I'd just get evidence from my mates (no idea why she did this when I'm friends with the half of the office) and went to the boss to nip it in the bud. "Well, I wouldn't take it personally. Just try and keep out of each others way." Cheers m8. Though a month later he gave me an extra day working from home and didn't give her any, so I got to mention that news loudly in front of her afterwards, that was nice. No direct action taken, he never confirmed he would have a talk with her or gave me any support. Thought this might be something to go to HR with but none of us trust the HR lady.
Oh, and my sleep has been suffering recently and performance to boot, so I told him this and took some time off sick and booked holiday for the first week of November. He emailed me the Sunday before that started with a furlough agreement for the entirety of November, including calling me on Teams on the Monday I was on holiday, apparently not aware I was on holiday despite informing him on proper channels. Bellend.
Anyway there's also the stuff about the father giving back massages to a very handsome male member of staff, something witnessed by most of the team, and making a big deal about people wearing shorts ("Ooh, that's very brave to show off your legs, Daniel!").
The father's wife works in the office too, it's a bit weird. They have a fraught relationship. There was one time said handsome member of staff went up to check his office for something while he was out, and found xvideos open on some generic gay porn. He left everything as found, and noticed the next person to walk into the office was the wife. She left unfazed, so presumably it's a bit of an open secret.
They also set up a direct debit using a client's bank account information to pay off overdue fees, without getting permission or even notifying them. I'm sure I must have misheard this but apparently it never got noticed by the client, it doesn't really add up tbh but they must have done something very similar.
Oh yeah, instead of renting aircon when the office temp was hitting 35+, the boss purchased an 800 quid...70 inch monitor maybe, saying aircon was too expensive. A senior member of staff made the decision to send everyone in the office home one day, because people were saying they felt sick from the heat. He was reprimanded, even though everyone was already set up to work from home from lockdown #1.
I think I can only remember the salacious stuff at the moment, there's definitely more dodgy shit they've done. Will ask colleagues.
>>13602 >Probably should have saved that prior to deletion...
Yeah, I just read your OP and that was really daft of you. Frankly, your boss sounds like a cunt and you should probably slash the tires of the poncy car he definitely drives like an arsehole. Though I think people should be slashing the tires of expensive cars as a matter of course so I'm just projecting.
>>13603 Don't slash car tyres, if you nick the inner tube it could burst and badly hurt you. Just wedge nails under the wheel so the weight of the car drives them in when it starts to move.
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No. 13605Anonymous 18th November 2020 Wednesday 2:35 pm13605Just received my termination letter :D
Yeah, didn't sleep much last night and woke up to a text from my mate saying "Four of us have just been sacked" so got straight on the phone and wasn't really with it, tried to change my password but it wasn't working and I couldn't be certain the boss hadn't changed it somehow, so just pulled the plug in a bit of a panic.
It's weird waking up to "Four of us have just been sacked, thank you so much".
Oh, and...BOOM, just got an email, 'termination letter'. Maybe it would have been different if I'd answered the phone to the HR lady, but I doubt it, I think the boss is tech savvy enough to determine that I was the admin of the server, and he's also not my biggest fan since there's only like three people who stand up to him. He hasn't even tried to get in touch with me today!
So...
Does anyone know what's to be done about my furlough/holiday pay? I took a week holiday, the furlough agreement I signed on the 8th Nov is apparently effective from the 1st of November. This means I've got 7 days holiday left, and a further 5 that were used up at the beginning of November. Presumably I should get those 5 back, but now I'm a wee bit confused.
Glad I don't have to do this meeting at least. A bit of it is definitely shock, but I'm still finding this whole situation so farcical. At least I've got references in the bank.
>Don't slash car tyres, if you nick the inner tube it could burst and badly hurt you.
Car tyres have been tubeless for decades. Nail holes in the tread are nearly always repairable, but if the sidewall is damaged then the tyre needs to be replaced.
If you really want to fuck someone's car up, pour gallium on their alloy wheels.
They're made of an aluminium alloy. Pure aluminium isn't particularly useful as an engineering metal, but there are a dizzying array of aluminium alloys with a wide range of properties.
>>13605 Cut two diagonally opposite tyres on the cunt's car. Not only do they either have to get it towed or call out a mobile service, but they'll need to change all four.
>>13616 So your simple, easy way to vandalise cars is to buy gallium off some obscure internet chemist vendor, wait for it to be delivered, take that and a sharp piece of metal, carefully scratch off enough of the clearcoat for it to give you access, then I guess rub the gallium on it?
Is this supposed to be more stealthy than just keying the paint? Do more visual damage than smashing the window with a nearby brick? Cost more to repair than pouring sugar or sand into the tank?
Apparently chucking slices of pepperoni on a car absolutely ruins the paint, and has the added value of being absurdist. If I didn't know about the trick and found someone had decorated my vehicle with deli meat, I'd probably assume it was a bizarre threat.
>>13621 >Did you ever research the pepperoni claim or just repeat it because it sounds odd?
"The added value of being absurdist" is enough without the need for criminal damage. It's a much more measured responce to being punished for poor behaviour.
Altenatively OP could go for a dildo on the car - a nuanced retaliation hinting and the bosses closeted sexuality with public humiliation. For bonus points rig it to squirt when grabbed.
>>13605 > We had a slack chat that, over the years, became less careful and more vitriolic. 2 members described it as being in a toxic relationship.
>recieved extra working-from-home time, proceeds to gloat before rival.
>Refocuses attention to the companies wrongdoings rather than own.
Get ahold of your attitude OP. Start taking responcibility for your mistakes, stop stiring shit. Most certainly your boss is a cunt - that's none of your business and doesn't excuse your behaviour.
With this account to go on, it sounds like you're the kind of workplace bully with an infectious negative attitude that draws others into poor worldviews and practices. You seem overly concerned with contending social status' of and with work colleagues.
I imagine the smiles you get from these workplace 'friends' are really false camaraderie, self-defence and influence mitigation - they'd rather be away of your crosshair than under it, at the less severe cost of their wellbeing.
You remind me of a less capable Bruce Robertson from the film Flith. I'm sure you will learn a lot from watching it.
>one of the staff members was doing my tits in by slagging me off to trainees whom I was responsible for
Have you posted about this before?
>Did you ever research the pepperoni claim or just repeat it because it sounds odd?
Why would I research it? I wasn't planning on doing it, and even if I was, then the results would be sufficient research. Cured meat's got loads of acids and preservatives and that, I bet if you scratched off the clear coat it'd do something.
Also was my "apparently" not a clear enough indicator that I shouldn't be held accountable for my views? Haven't we learned anything from Ed Winchester?
>>13622 >Get ahold of your attitude OP. Start taking responcibility for your mistakes, stop stiring shit. Most certainly your boss is a cunt - that's none of your business and doesn't excuse your behaviour.
You must really enjoy the taste of leather.
>>13629 Not him but OP used a work platform to make derogatory comments about his boss - I think taking the view that OP can't complain about the consequences has some justification.
Agreed, sadly. Never use company computers to do anything that isn't company related. Silly lads should have set up a whatsapp group or something.
Anyway fuck slashing tyres, just use psexec to install wannacry across the whole Windows domain when you go in to pick up your stuff and your boss'll be down the job centre in time for Christmas. Lubbly Jubbly.
>>13631 Opsec was definitely shit. If you're going to use Slack for this, use your own computer and use the mobile app while at work. Also, generally don't log into any high-value personal accounts from work computers. (Which is why sites that insist on using social logins and not their own logins are a PITA.)
>>13633 Precisely, and good point re: OAUTH generally being a bad idea. You end up needing a second Google account just to use certain sites and then you need another PAYG SIM and before you know what's going on you're wrapped in tinfoil wondering why your ISP doesn't have an NNTP server any more.
>>13631 >Agreed, sadly. Never use company computers to do anything that isn't company related. Silly lads should have set up a whatsapp group or something.
Agreed x 2 - whatever the merits of his boss, you're fair game the minute you start doing this sort of stuff on a work computer.
>>13635 OAuth is quite nice in itself, but using it for things other than integration is probably not a great idea. I get the attraction of not having to manage sensitive credentials, particularly that a database dump alone won't compromise anything, but if you're not using it for integration you really need to support multiple tokens so users can burn creds they no longer need.
>>13632 He set it up himself and then accessed it using work equipment.
>documenting and calling out management misconduct
Where the fuck did anyone take issue with that? There's a big difference between that and being "vitriolic".
>>13637 Absolutely, but conversely it's pretty pants as a method of authenticating to a bunch of completely unconnected websites. I see the appeal to end users; everyone's logged into their primary gmail all the time anyway why bother remembering passwords when you can just click "continue with Google" and the job's a good 'un? The problems, of course, come when you lose access to that google/facebook/twitter account (or whoever else is providing OAUTH services now) and suddenly you're locked out of a whole range of stuff.
Then again we face a similar problem with sites that use your email address as either a login ID or as a password reset mechanism; a decent authentication system should provide you with multiple methods of access including [login,email],pass [login,email], Authenticator app token, and [login,email], Yubikey (or similar).
Ideally I'd like to see email addresses (and, god help us, mobile phones) removed entirely from authentication systems but it'll never happen as the average user doesn't want to install KeePassXC, buy a YubiKey, and install an authenticator app on their phone.
Big, fat, smelly Whinge well and truly ticked not just for the whinge itself but because this isn't even /g/.
>Get ahold of your attitude OP. Start taking responcibility for your mistakes, stop stiring shit. Most certainly your boss is a cunt - that's none of your business and doesn't excuse your behaviour.
That you boss? Anyway, absolutely my fault, it was both poor form and poor OpSec. I've acknowledged that in the post. Though as regards poor form, my only regret is that I didn't get to package it all up with a focus on the real tangible issues that he (you) could learn from and fix. I said, and meant, everything I said.
>With this account to go on, it sounds like you're the kind of workplace bully with an infectious negative attitude that draws others into poor worldviews and practices. You seem overly concerned with contending social status' of and with work colleagues.
My mentor had been sexually harassed for a decade by one of the partners. That's not really conducive to the morale. The first day I worked, my colleague went over to the window at lunch and visibly relaxed when he saw the boss walking off. The partners were mocked roundly by everyone, it was really a horrible place and I certainly acted out because of it, I wasn't alone. I'll not shirk my share of the responsibility, but they should take theirs.
>I imagine the smiles you get from these workplace 'friends' are really false camaraderie, self-defence and influence mitigation - they'd rather be away of your crosshair than under it, at the less severe cost of their wellbeing.
There was like 6-8 of us in a good friendship group. People I respected would wait for me at the door when we went to lunch together. One time one of the guys I wasn't sure of was griping about getting on the same train as me, and as a joke I went the long way so he could get a different carriage. He followed me and sat with me and we chatted, it was really nice. These people defended me against the girl who was slagging me off in the other office, resulting in her stopping talking to them. The ones involved have repeatedly told me I can call them any time and not to be upset about this because they're happier now.
Thanks for helping me appreciate that. I worked with some amazing people who didn't deserve to be treated how they were.
>>13643 On the upside, when the question comes up at interview "why did you leave your last job?" you can answer "my boss was a sex pest and he fired me for helping his victims speak up".
>>13644 Yeah, had a false start then figured I'd benefit from just taking Christmas off to convalesce. Starting to apply again but I'm just bricking it about the questions - I just had a voicemail from a recruitment agent saying he had work in cloud based integration, and then "How are things going at [company]?".
I want to say that I had an unaddressed HR complaint that contributed to a toxic working environment and a falling out with my boss. Does that smell bad? Should I add that I can provide more details if necessary?
Is there an equivalent of 'no comment' that's not immensely suspicious? 3 of the most senior staff at the firm will give me a reference provided the boss doesn't find out, and a dozen or so former clients would be happy to confirm my experience, so I'm feeling fairly confident in that area.
>On the upside, when the question comes up at interview "why did you leave your last job?" you can answer "my boss was a sex pest and he fired me for helping his victims speak up".
Is there a synergistic, blue skies euphemism for that? "He's a friend of Jimmy Saville?"
Personally I'd just say I left because I wasn't being challenged in my work or whatever wishy washy interview answer you'd normally give. If your referees know not to mention you were fired, they never need to find out.
>>13679 Presumably the 'gross misconduct' doesn't need to come up then.
>>13680 This one worries me, when furlough is being handed out so freely, is it plausible that I chose to quit instead of just take the money and look for other jobs?
I've had to get a job after gross misconduct once before, when I was sacked from Crowne Plaza for making myself a sandwich in the staff canteen after work.
"Now this is very important, did you make the sandwich *before* your shift ended, or *afterwards*?"
>>13682 You had problems at another workplace too? Jesus, lad. You sound like a bad egg.
Usually, it is better to not mention why you were sacked, etc. If you have senior people who will give you good references, it is probably best to say you were made redundant. If you are middle management or lower, nobody will be looking deeper into it.
>Usually, it is better to not mention why you were sacked, etc. If you have senior people who will give you good references, it is probably best to say you were made redundant.
Thanks mate, I appreciate the reassurance.
My eggability is debatable...I almost burned down/flooded the same bar in a 3 month period, they seemed okay with it. Then I go to a corporate bar and make myself a sandwich in the staff canteen after my shift and bam, gross misconduct. They fired the supervisor who informed on me for using the reception phone to order his taxi a couple of months and 100% non mgmt staff turnover within 6 months.
I'll take my share of the blame, especially for the fire and flood and the chat server, but for the sandwich? That's simply a difference of opinion that didn't go my way.
>Try to keep the next job you get, mate.
Cheers, I just need to pick the right one. I'm not a great lad but I'm not a proper cunt, I've worked with some amazing managers, but they're never the ones in charge :/
>>13684 'After my shift finished' was the wrong answer. Thing is I got on with people there, it was just a surprisingly tight ship and if I had any enemies I didn't know it. Supervisor thought I'd just get a light bollocking. Ah well, bigger and better.
I'm very confused, why was making yourself a sandwich in the staff canteen an act worthy of 'gross misconduct'? Why did they object to this practice? Were they completely clear from the outset that sandwich-making was frowned upon round these parts?
>>13686 Crowne Plaza are owned by IHG and therefore seem to have quite a strict code of conduct. It was classified as 'theft', can't say fairer than that.
>>13689 It's the lifeblood of the industry to be honest. Surprised I never tried it on shift. I once did a pill at Bestival and it took me 15 minutes to make 5 mixed doubles. Only the senior staff were allowed to take the last hour of their shift off having dropped acid. Festival bartending is an interesting one.
Now I've got a phone call at 1330, references are mostly in pocket, I just need to not be a twat.
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No. 13725Anonymous 18th February 2021 Thursday 5:58 pm13725sackedlad - do HR ever second guess references?
I've been offered an unfairly good job 'subject to satisfactory references'. I've sent them the contact details of a senior employee at my sacked role who likes me, and those of the guy I've been working with since.
Will an established company second guess me, or will they just contact the references provided? The firm I left is really small, 15 staff and 2 partners. Is there a chance that they'd phone into reception or contact a partner on linkedin?
I just can't relax. Elated when I was told I was going to be given a contract, but spent all today shitting it that they might not contact my provided references. Should I be worried about that?
They're just going to contact the references you gave them. It'd be thoroughly weird to go out of their way to talk to a different person. If they did that for you they'd presumably do it for everyone, and what an absolute fuck on that would be.
>>13728 Always polite to tell referees you've used their names. Or even, you know, ask first.
If it's a timing thing, that's what 'references available on request' is for, to avoid telling the people you're working for that you're currently banging out CVs left, right & centre.
>>13729 Haha, I've certainly confirmed that these people are happy to give me a reference. Did you think I hadn't even asked?
>If it's a timing thing, that's what 'references available on request'
That's what I put things out with. I had references sorted but didn't want to get anyone in hot water if my CV got back to my old job. The ones I've got are happy for me to use their work email addresses, will just say "He didn't have my permission" if an email turns up in their inbox asking about me. The old boss has monitored emails before, so it's a fair concern but yeah, should be fine.
>>13727 I've been told that even when you've been shit at your job employers tend not to give negative references because you have the right to see what they wrote and if you fail to land a job because of something they put that was inaccurate you can sue the pants off them. Is that right?
>>13733 although a lot of places apparently say nothing positive or negative and merely confirm dates and position. I don't think you can read much into that.
I'm involved in hiring at the moment and it's horrible. Trying to get someone to prove technical competence, to see if they've done the things they talk about, or just seen them done and interview well. If it was my company, I'd hire them for a short fixed contract, but it's not. 4 hour interview on Monday. Fucking great. I'm sure the candidate isn't much keener than I am.
>>13731 Only...4 of them? That's about 30%, could be worse. Fortunately despite being a general retard, in small bursts I'm smart and confident, so interview fairly well.
>>13733 I was wondering about emailing them from a puppet address and saying "This chap is applying for a job, what's the skinny" and seeing what they said, hopefully giving me grounds to sue them or something. Probably wont, the world isn't a soap.
>>13734 What industry necessitates such a long interview process?
>>13734 I don't think I took 4 hours total in process with the company I'm about to join, between all the calls with the recruiter, the panel interview and the technical exercise.
Like you, I don't think I've ever spent more than four our five hours total on the entire recruitment process, and not to blow my own knob but I've had some fairly serious/important roles.
Security vetting is another fucking story, but I don't count that, as it comes after the job offer.
Yeah, it's unusual. He's got to work with three small, highly technical but very broad remit teams spread across 7 time zones, and we all have to approve him (after a previous hire interviewed well but turned out to be a gimp. )
Hiring me took much less time, but my godlike skills are clear to all. Unfortunately, my skills don't include divining truth at interview. Not that I interviewed the gimp, he predated me.
I'm spending the weekend trying to come up with a couple of technical teasers for a gifted generalist.
Ah, fuck, other people have it worse. I just don't like the process of hiring people.
>Unfortunately, my skills don't include divining truth at interview.
I have this skill. I can tell a wrong'un before he's even sat down. People think I'm being unreasonable when I make these judgements, but they always end up admitting I was right. The only issue with my skill is that it's definitely illegal to use.
>>13739 Unfortunately our sales manager really doesn't. He has the gift of the gab but I reckon he just ends up picking people he enjoys talking at rather than people who show any competence.
When the CEO gets involved with interviews though, he basically just stares people down and asks a few blunt questions that get right to the point of whether they have the smarts for the job.
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No. 13742Anonymous 28th February 2021 Sunday 9:27 pm13742How do I verify the number of sick days I've had?
Hopefully final question from this. I sent them two references, one from sacking job and one from my current role. The mate I've been working with for the past 3 months got his reference request email pretty prompt, and responded back. However my reference from the sacking job, John, didn't receive anything, and when I contacted the new job to ask if they sent my manager there anything, they responded saying "John? Sorry I'm not sure who you're talking about. Anyway, I'm just finalising your staff portal account now, you'll receive an invitation soon". This was quite confusing, since his name was the first out of the two. Maybe they just asked the guy from my current role?
I got the email back later that afternoon, with the invitation etc. So I think I'm basically in. I've been asked 'How many sick days have you had in x years'. How do they verify this? How do I? I know I've had some, but fuck knows how many. Had insomnia a couple of years back and I know I had a few days then, and again when I broke my hand, and I got sick notes both times, but I also took a few 'normal' sick days off, and again some half days and short shifts.
They've asked for my GP details, so presumably they'll be contacting them to verify official sick days, but I've got no idea how many I've had. I don't want to lie but I also don't know what level of scrutiny will be applied. Also I absolutely will want to lie if it's more than 10 because that seems a bit dodgy.
Even if it did, they still shouldn't need medical details, at least not for anything I've ever seen. If they need to verify you're fit to work it should be through a third party medical exam, rather then your entire history.
>>13747 UKSV can request medical history if you have any background of mental illness, addiction or something else that could make you 'vulnerable'. I've not heard of an actual company doing it as well but I suppose it could happen, if say HR/security need to know to keep an eye on you in case you seem depressed. All round it's a very odd request though, I would certainly think twice about this place unless they have a good reason for it.
Interesting. I didn't actually know that, though to be fair I have only ever dealt with clearances up to CTC level and even then it's done through our governing body so it's probably even more opaque than when you do it directly.
I've checked the wording and it says "We will not contact your doctor without your prior written consent" just underneath the box asking for GP office address, so that seems above board.
>Sharing your medical data without your explicit consent is very illegal.
Reassuring. Apparently I have no faith in our privacy.
>Does this job require a security clearance?
It's just a small accounting firm.
>I would certainly think twice about this place unless they have a good reason for it.
I've checked the wording as above, so does that make it seem any better?
>>13750 >I've checked the wording as above, so does that make it seem any better?
Not really. Why would a small accounting firm need this information, and what level of clearance are they doing?
>>13750 To be honest and again, it's highly irregular. Unless you've got something else lined up though I'd probably reluctantly give them the details - they can't actually contact your GP without your consent and it's not a good time to be out of work.
Given your shit luck and personal life though I might recommend given the civil service a few applications while you wait for this all to process. Shit pay but they treat you right.
I work in an environment that requires security vetting, has a relatively high risk of injury and the possibility of sudden accidents, required a medical exam to check I was even fit to work, and yet my employer still did not ask for my GP's details.
