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>> No. 5498 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 11:01 am
5498 The Hitch
I suspect you might get something out of this.

http://vimeo.com/94776807

"Authors note:

I was looking for a documentary about The Hitch to watch but
I could never find one. I waited and waited. Finally I figured:
"Why don't I just make one?". That was the inspiration for this project.
I did not make it to gain financially as I do not own most of the
footage used.

I simply wanted to in my own small way, further the legacy of Christopher Hitchens.

Thanks for watching.

Produced by: Kristoffer Seland Hellesmark"
Expand all images.
>> No. 5499 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 3:05 pm
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"Christopher Hitchens began his career in Britain as a left-wing journalist but later moved to New York and the political right".

Thirty seconds in and I'm already annoyed. Those who know anything about Christopher Hitchens could not describe him as a rightist in any capacity.
>> No. 5500 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 4:27 pm
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I agree, what a load of shite.
>> No. 5501 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 6:08 pm
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>>5499
He is an imperialist pig. Nothing more than a tea-party republican in sheep's skin. Good thing he moved there before he kicked the fucking bucket. Isn't he the reason all retarded atheists backed all the wars America started this millennium? Fuck right off, lad.
>> No. 5502 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 6:47 pm
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>>5501
Fuck's sake Crow, can't you just stay dead?
>> No. 5503 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 7:21 pm
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550355035503

>> No. 5504 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 7:52 pm
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>>5503

I think you meant to post "The Crow From Below".
>> No. 5505 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 8:30 pm
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>>5501

George, is that you?
>> No. 5506 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 10:04 pm
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>>5504
Check the filename, sweetheart.
>> No. 5508 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 10:10 pm
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>>5499
He may not have felt at home among the American right wing, but it certainly is odd how often he found himself on their side.

I never got the fascination with him to be honest. If you ignore his purposefully inflammatory rhetoric, he really had very little of interest to say.
>> No. 5509 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 10:27 pm
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>>5508
> purposefully inflammatory rhetoric

You never have read a single one of his books or watched one full debate, have you?
>> No. 5510 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 10:44 pm
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>>5506

Shit. I didn't see that. Sorry.
>> No. 5511 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 10:50 pm
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>>5509
I have, as it happens. It may just be that other people are capable of experiencing the same thing as you and then going on to form their own opinion, which may not be the same as yours. Shocking, I know.
>> No. 5512 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 10:57 pm
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>>5511

Well it just so happens he doesn't go out of his way to piss anyone off for no reason, and if he does, he has an extremely succinct and well thought out explanation why.

His debating skills are second to none in my opinion, and there has never been a religious Hitchens equal - so it may it seem like rhetoric as the debate sways to Hitchens within a few minutes.

I can agree he does come across as a bit arrogant and flamboyant, but when you're killing with words, and are unstoppable, it's somewhat excusable.
>> No. 5514 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 11:05 pm
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>>5501
> imperialist pig
You have reminded me about GTA: Vice City.
Damn and that was only in 2004.
>> No. 5515 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 11:08 pm
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>>5512
He was the kind of speaker who came across as brilliantly convincing only if you already agreed with everything he said.
>> No. 5516 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 11:17 pm
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>>5515
Absolutely, I can be labelled a Hitchens ballsucker because he really got to me far more than any of the self-fart-smelling New Atheists™.
He was a journalist by trade, so he had a intense and deep understanding of political workings of despotic shitholes. I loved him because he also took down demagogue and bullshit artists that seemed to be loved by millions. His attacks on mother theresa, Diana and Clinton were particularly striking.

Basically, I adore him because of the fat piles of logic and evidence he accompanies all his assertions with.

And done in a perfect tone of voice and accent.
>> No. 5517 Anonymous
5th June 2014
Thursday 11:18 pm
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An atheist who gave his blessings to Bush's crusades.
>> No. 5519 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:06 am
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>>5508

How is it odd? You do realise that political convictions aren't entirely binary? You seem to suggest he was secretly right wing although he didn't like to admit it. It's much more satisfying to admit that no one is entirely "right wing" or "left wing", we can agree with others on one issue while vehemently disagreeing with them about many other things. That was what was refreshing about Hitchens (and his bother Peter in many respects), he was willing to think for himself and - if his wariness of political Islam and hatred of totalitarianism happened to coincide with some elements of American neo-conservatism - so be it.

The other option is to blindly follow the dictates of your chosen tribe and be incredibly boring in the process.
>> No. 5522 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 9:56 am
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>>5519
It's definitely odd to me. If I don't identify with a group but happen to agree with everything they say, I'd be asking myself some serious questions.
>> No. 5523 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 10:36 am
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>>5522

I find that response sort of odd. Hitchens didn't agree with everything they said (he maintained his Marxism until his dying day for one thing), and in fact he heavily criticized the way Bush and his cronies were carrying out the war. I recommend his Slate articles from this period.

He was a realist and accepted, unlike many self-declared leftists, that the Western hegemony wasn't about to collapse (regardless of how many times undergrads describe this period as "late capitalism" in their essays), ushering in an age of equality and goodness. And instead accept, much like Orwell concluded in the 40s, the West and it's way of doing things can occasionally be the best of a bad bunch.
>> No. 5524 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 11:30 am
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>>5523
>he maintained his Marxism until his dying day for one thing
Hahaha, okay mate.
>> No. 5525 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 11:55 am
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>>5524

It's telling that that's the one thing you pick up on while ignoring everything else I had to say. Perhaps you're less knowledgeable than you like on the subject of the "anti-totalitarian leftist" (as described by his close friend Ian McEwan)? Regardless, I aim to please, and I can put you straight on the question of Hitch's Marxism too.

"Though no longer a socialist, he was still a Marxist, and an admirer of Lenin, Trotsky and Che Guevera; capitalism, the transforming powers of which Marx recognised, had proved the more revolutionary economic system and, politically, the American revolution was the only one left in town." Taken from The Guardian's Obituary.

His very last words were recorded as: "Capitalism, downfall". I struggle to imagine the same out of Cheney and Rumsfeld.

I think I've done a fairly competent job quashing the claim that Hitchens was covertly rightist thus far, could you now provide me with *any* evidence that he was? Unfortunately you feeling oddly about his views just ain't enough for me.
>> No. 5526 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:16 pm
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>>5525
>His very last words were recorded as: "Capitalism, downfall".

Why do people's last words always have to be so gay? What's wrong with 'pass me the handgun'?
>> No. 5527 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:19 pm
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>>5525
Admiring Lenin and Trotsky does not make you a Marxist.

And there was nothing covert about it.
>> No. 5528 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:35 pm
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>>5527

His friend's analysis and his last words count for naught too? How frustrating.

A good debater always keeps some in reserve however, how about something a little more overt?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Y-s9AyNQyCw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Paxman [17 minutes in]: Do you still consider yourself a leftist?
Hitch: Yes.
(He also goes into how those claiming he has moved to "the right" are resorted to cliche, that seems fairly spot on to me).

But it's 18:40 where you will find the evidence you're surely looking for. Where's mine?
>> No. 5529 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:40 pm
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>>5528

Seeing as the video post fucked up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-s9AyNQyCw
>> No. 5530 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:42 pm
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>>5528
Oh shit, he AND his mate said he was a leftist? That settles it then.

You'll note that he says "I think like a Marxist", which rather implies that he didn't claim to actually be one. Quite the opposite actually.
>> No. 5531 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:44 pm
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Is "The Hitch" actually interesting? I only know three things about him, one that he was an Atheist, two he supported Iraq, and three he's dead now.

I'm basically really smart, so I'm not sure what he can tell me about any of those things?
>> No. 5532 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:44 pm
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>>5529
I think you mean "seeing as I can't find and follow basic instructions".

http://britfa.gs/help/
http://britfa.gs/help/features.html
>> No. 5533 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:45 pm
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>>5531
If you're a teenager in the suburbs being ruthlessly oppressed by your Christian parents, he's without equal. If not, he's just yet another obnoxious, contrarian middle-weight intellectual.
>> No. 5534 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:47 pm
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>>5530

I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence to the contrary.

Also, thinking like a Marxist makes one a Marxist in my book. If one thinks like a Stalinist or a Thatcherite, we call those people Stalinists and Thatcherites, no? Or do you consider them the polar-opposite?
>> No. 5535 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 12:49 pm
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>>5532

You have my thanks.
>> No. 5536 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 1:01 pm
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>>5533

I haven't read Hitchens extensively, but you have nailed his image. Go a bit deeper, though, and you can see there was a lot more to him. He was a journalist who really cared about his prose, was well educated and widely read, and believed in a kind of narrative arc for political events. My limited understanding is that he supported the Iraq war on moral grounds, on the terms that the West were within their right to retaliate against movements that utilised tactics like suicide bombing. It's not a position I agree with, the situation is more complex than that, but it isn't quite right to say he'd suddenly become a neocon.

He also wrote a lot of interesting things about the relationship between the UK and the USA that were analytical rather than falling back on 'special relationship' clichés.
>> No. 5537 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 1:24 pm
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>>5536

You're spot-on. What ever you think of his stance on Iraq post 9/11 or religion, he has provided 40 years of superb political analysis and comment. The C-SPAN archive (http://www.c-span.org/person/?christopherhitchens) is a good place to start if anyone's interested. I think his insights into international politics during the Cold War are second only to Chomsky, but no one matches Hitch for eloquence, humour and charm, for what it's worth.
>> No. 5538 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 1:48 pm
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>>5534
You think like an idiot.
>> No. 5539 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 2:11 pm
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>>5534
>Also, thinking like a Marxist makes one a Marxist in my book. If one thinks like a Stalinist or a Thatcherite, we call those people Stalinists and Thatcherites, no? Or do you consider them the polar-opposite?
Strange that he elected to say "I still think like a Marxist" and not "I am still a Marxist" then.

Right before that he said he didn't see any socialist alternative to capitalism. If you're reducing Marxism exclusively to the materialist conception of history, you're pushing it beyond the point where what you believe in can reasonably be called Marxism (in part because, aside from anything else, Engels and Lenin were far more concerned about dialectics than Marx), and pushing it far, far past the point at which your "Marxism" can be labelled as intrinsically left wing.

I don't understand what evidence you keep talking about. Evidence that an avowed apologist for American capitalism, imperialism and liberal interventionism was not, in fact, left wing? The onus isn't really on me, mate. The amazing, irrefutable, rational, Hitchslap-esque evidence you've served to show how left wing he was literally comes down to "he said he was".

I hate it when Hitchens gets praised by Britons. At least Americans have the novelty of Oxbridge Union style debating to account for the impression he made across the pond. Over here he'd fit right in at PMQs, and that's possibly the worst thing you could say about any "public intellectual".
>> No. 5540 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 2:12 pm
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Expressing your opinion on polarising subjects will polarise people's opinions of you. Because Hitchens was such a good writer he attracted criticism from people who disagree with him (and that's ok).

However, what I think is more interesting to talk about now is the way he wrote about unifying subjects (a mother's love, the pains of growing up, death) which he was equally as insightful in writing about.

On those subjects he takes the emotions which we all feel and distils them into the words we wish we could say. And he makes it look natural and easy. That's a real talent which anyone can appreciate whether or not you think he's a megacunt for disagreeing with your political views.

I also have a sense that I "knew" Hitchens because he was so good at taking his stream of consciousness and putting into words - which is the point of language isn't it? He managed to be a master of it.
>> No. 5542 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 2:22 pm
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>>5540
>Because Hitchens was such a good writer he attracted criticism from people who disagree with him
I think the criticism was more to do with his support for a war which by any objective measure was a waste of human life than how good he was with words, mate.
>> No. 5543 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 2:27 pm
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>>5533

Ah, well being only one of those things then I reckon I'd find his ideas extremely underwhelming.

At least Doug Stanhope's funny.
>> No. 5544 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 2:28 pm
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>>5539
>Engels and Lenin were far more concerned about dialectics than Marx

Read that as 'dielectrics' the first time. Thought you were making an abstract point about polarising the people and seperating their charge...
>> No. 5545 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 2:40 pm
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>>5542
Do you know why he was for the war?

He was mainly in favour of deposing Hussain and his criminal family. He extensively wrote about this well before the gulf war even, he visited Iraq as well. What he saw shook him so much that he knew it was a moral obligation to remove this prick.
>> No. 5546 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 3:39 pm
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>>5545
American intervention in Iraq led to the Ba'athists' ascension to power in the first place. To think more American intervention is a fucking "moral obligation" to deal with the consequences is to be purposefully blind to the history of US foreign policy.
>> No. 5547 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 3:40 pm
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I was at the library today and spotted Hitch-22. You might be better off reading his life in the man's own words, OP.
>> No. 5549 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 4:13 pm
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>>5546
Well better to fix something that you've fucked up, no? He wasn't too pleased how the war was handled though, I mean his honest ideals were to depose the baddies, but Bush had clearly ulterior motives at play as well.

Also listen to his autobiography, it's really good.
>> No. 5550 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 4:15 pm
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>>5545
Did he cry because of all the dead babies that the US and their security council buddies killed with its Oil-for-food-programme? What he saw shook him? Did he drive over all the dead bodies that the US killed with its sanctions? He was so pissed off at what the US was doing to those poor I-raqis, that he thought to himself, "Hang about, maybe these pricks should be bombed and murdered some more." What a humanitarian. We lost a great person indeed.

New Age Atheists is the single worse thing to have happened to mainstream atheism.
>> No. 5551 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 4:46 pm
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>>5549
>Well better to fix something that you've fucked up, no?
No. If a foreign state has, historically, furthered their own interests by supporting instability at best and outright oppressive dictatorships at worst in your country, how do you think you might feel if that same state later decides to invade you for your own good? This is exactly why Cheney's "we will, in fact be greeted as liberators" quote was met with such incredulity by anyone with who had ever taken a remotely serious and objective look at the history of American intervention.

>He wasn't too pleased how the war was handled though
Boy, if only someone saw that coming.

Wait a second...
>> No. 5552 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 4:53 pm
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>>5549

Yeah, it's totally sorted, sadly some people just can't being so free and have to spontaneously combusting and being shot to death as a result.

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
>> No. 5553 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 5:53 pm
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I think it's absurd to suggest that Hitch's stance on the invasion of Iraq was based on anything but the principled belief that it was right to depose a dictator. When he suggested that waterboarding wasn't torture and was challenged on that opinion, he went out and got himself waterboarded and immediately changed his mind. Those aren't the actions of a demagogue, they are the actions of a principled man who wants above all else to find better answers to difficult questions. I marched against the war, but I totally respect Hitch's opinion on the matter and how he advanced the debate. He wasn't a neocon stooge, he was a really smart guy who didn't follow the winds of public opinion but reasoned out his beliefs. If only we had more men like him, the world would be an immeasurably better place.
>> No. 5554 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 6:00 pm
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>>5549
>depose the baddies,

Jesus wept.
>> No. 5555 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 6:05 pm
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>>5554>>5552>>5551>>5550>>5546
I... I just like Hitchens... :(

>>5554
I have to admit I was in a rush writing that, but it makes lol reading your comment.

(A good day to you Sir!)
>> No. 5556 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 6:20 pm
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>>5555
You would still like him if he said he was the biggest neo-con and went out and killed little children with his bare hands.
>> No. 5557 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 6:46 pm
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>>5553
>When he suggested that waterboarding wasn't torture and was challenged on that opinion, he went out and got himself waterboarded and immediately changed his mind. Those aren't the actions of a demagogue, they are the actions of a principled man who wants above all else to find better answers to difficult questions
You'll doubtless be an ardent admirer of Matthew Erich "Mancow" Muller, an American shock-jock talk show host who did the exact same thing. Admitting you were wrong after being proven as such in a very public and humiliating manner doesn't make you a saint, lad.
>> No. 5558 Anonymous
6th June 2014
Friday 7:27 pm
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>>5556
He was neither of those things, that's silly, stop being silly.
>> No. 5622 Anonymous
7th August 2014
Thursday 9:38 pm
5622 spacer
https://www.youtube.com/v/iR0GyYaeI-k

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