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|>>|| No. 27146
I suppose it's time for a new thread seeing as the previous one is almost at 1,700 posts.
It's been kicking off in America (again) after the police have shot a black man (again). A couple of protesters/rioters have been killed after they were driven by the police towards an alt-right militia, with this planned in advance.
|>>|| No. 28145
Exactly - Corbyn's total lack of leadership was never Corbyn's fault, he just spurted foam into a glass and blamed the mess on the Blairites.
|>>|| No. 28149
Not half as funny as those of you who are still obsessed with trying to make fun of him. Isn't he irrelevant now? Can't he be mentioned in a historical analysis without someone immediately jumping in to post pictures of him to make him look worse?
|>>|| No. 28151
I posted that comment along with an image of a Tory failing to drink a pint and one thoroughly relishing it. I'm not partisan, I think most of the current Westminster crop are weirdos who shouldn't be trusted to run a tombola at a village fete. If you don't think that someone slopping frothy American pisswater over the hand of an unsuspecting Yanis Varoufakis is hilarious, you're part of the problem.
|>>|| No. 28152
I didn't vote for Corbyn or feel particularly strongly about him (except in an "anyone but Johnson" way), I just find it weird how it seems like there are vultures hanging around just itching to turn any vague mention of him into a bizarre "Lets try to trigger the Corbynistas!" thing.
|>>|| No. 28153
I don't think I'm very good at pulling pints but I'd 100% shoot all the bankers with my AK when the time comes, I don't think bartending skills necessarily translate to political competence. I was raised in a town that has at least one stabbing a week but I've never worked in a bar. Even at the social club they have a dodgy looking lass with red dyed hair pulling the pints.
I bet he knows how to pour a fucking perfect Guinness, mind, if you catch my drift
|>>|| No. 28155
There are a lot of sad old men nostalgic for the Blair years and confused about why they're not with it anymore. Half of them hate Corbyn because he reminds them how out of touch they are, and the other half hate him because they were around for the tail end of Kinnock's leadership and think that gives them the right to be massively wrong about Labour history by repeating propaganda from that time.
At least that's what I hope is happening, it's also possible that we've got unironic Labour Students careerists here, in which case you can jump the dates forward to the late Blair/Brown era but apply the same general sense of being totally out of touch but now combined with the frustrated ambitions of someone who thinks they could've been a SPAD had Labour just picked the right Miliband.
|>>|| No. 28157
Maybe some of us are just a bit concerned about the state of politics right now and would like a credible opposition?
|>>|| No. 28158
Well maybe you should have written to some of the thick-as-a-plank MPs stabbing the leadership in the back and resigning on a monthly basis. As I said earlier today ITT I don't think Corbyn was some kind of messianic figure or tragic hero, but the man had more bother from his own sodding party than anyone else. And before anyone pipes up with "he should have done more betterer at being leader then" he could hardly lock MPs in their second homes until they promised not to be mean to him, IE, you can only lead people who want to be lead. If the squad doesn't show up for Saturday's match, alright, some blame might lie with the manager, but it's clearly not all on him. Now you call me a "Corbynista" or say the Labour Party needs to do more racism while providing no actual policy shifts or even differing techniques Old Man Jezza might have employed before saying "well Blair won so there".
|>>|| No. 28159
Then why are you still obsesseing over the politics of last year?
Okay but now you're feeding into it too.
|>>|| No. 28160
But that's exactly what we've got in Mr Starmer, the Grown Up Who Likes The Army. Polling above Boris, bringing back the North. You should be happy. Not even taking the piss, I'm happy about it. Unless you've just woken up from a year long stasis sleep and haven't caught up,I'm really not sure what your complaint is.
Instead you're still looking for validation, perhaps because you feel a tinge of guilt for the knife you stuck in Corbyn's back. Deep in your heart of hearts, you know Corbyn was never going to win, he was only there as the voice of dissatisfaction from the young and hopeful membership, and we'd be in more or less entirely the same situation today without the brutal character assassination- But you did it anyway. And you were fucking inept at it then too.
You know that in so doing, you weakened the Labour party as a whole, and you feel bad about it, so here you are. Looking for people to back you up.
|>>|| No. 28161
>he could hardly lock MPs in their second homes until they promised not to be mean to him, IE, you can only lead people who want to be lead
Quite, and as a leader it's your job to persuade the team to follow you. Which Corbyn very obviously couldn't do.
>If the squad doesn't show up for Saturday's match, alright, some blame might lie with the manager, but it's clearly not all on him.
No, it's pretty much all on him.
|>>|| No. 28162
So if Corbynites do everything in their power to sabotage Starmer, it'll all be his fault because he couldn't rally them behind him?
|>>|| No. 28163
Are you still blathering on about Corbyn? Christ, lads.
|>>|| No. 28164
They'll never stop, which is why people love trolling the Corbynista/Centrists. Labour/the left just loves arguing about pointless shit.
|>>|| No. 28165
> Labour/the left just loves arguing about pointless shit.
Come on lad you can't surely think that's just "the left".
|>>|| No. 28166
It seems mostly to be people having a discussion that happens to mention him then people who think they're doing an epic trolling by derailing it with pointless shit.
|>>|| No. 28170
Tough shit, Peter Sallis is dead. I think Ben Whitehead's impersonation has grown in leaps and bounds and is now almost indistinguishable.
|>>|| No. 28348
>One person has died and another man, who 9News confirmed was a private security guard contracted by them, is in custody after a shooting during dueling protests Saturday in downtown Denver.
>The incident occurred after a man participating in what was billed a “Patriot Rally” sprayed mace at another man. That man then shot the other individual with a handgun near the courtyard outside the Denver Art Museum. Police later tweeted that the suspect was a private security guard with no affiliation with Antifa.
>Two rallies, one right-wing and one left-wing, were taking place near one another at Civic Center on Saturday. Until the shooting, the protests mostly consisted of each group chanting and yelling at one another from across the amphitheater, which separated the two groups.
|>>|| No. 28349
That is such an incredible picture. Literally the moment someone dies. You can see the shell casing being ejected from the pistol.
|>>|| No. 28351
>On 21 May 2016, two competing rallies were held in Houston to alternately protest against and defend the recently opened Library of Islamic Knowledge at the Islamic Da'wah Center. The "Stop Islamization of Texas" rally was organized by the Facebook group "Heart of Texas". The posting for the event encouraged participants to bring guns. A spokesman for the group conversed with the Houston Press via email but declined to give a name. The other rally, "Save Islamic Knowledge", was organized by another Facebook group called "United eskimos of America" for the same time and location. Both Facebook groups were later revealed to be IRA accounts.
|>>|| No. 28352
Call me old fashioned but I do ever so slightly suspect everything that the Russians have supposedly done was in fact the CIA.
I mean, this IRA can't be so all-powerful they can incite riots and install puppet presidents, yet can't keep their own wikipedia page clean.
|>>|| No. 28353
>Call me old fashioned but I do ever so slightly suspect everything that the Russians have supposedly done was in fact the CIA.
Maybe that's what you want us to believe, John Smith of Kensington Palace Gardens.
More than likely the Russian IRA is just incompetent like all covert influence operations but that you don't need a whole lot of intelligence to sway certain people on facebook from killing each other.
|>>|| No. 28355
>I mean, this IRA can't be so all-powerful they can incite riots and install puppet presidents, yet can't keep their own wikipedia page clean.
They want you to know.
Think about Litvenenko, Skripal or Navalny - you don't go around poisoning people with ultra-rare, highly-detectable chemicals if you want to remain anonymous. Using Polonium or Novichok allows them to deny responsibility at the UN, while smugly smirking at the fact that everyone knows you did it but nobody can prove it. It's a stronger power play than either silently disappearing someone or claiming responsibility for an assassination.
Russia demonstrably has the capacity to influence Western elections, but they don't really care who wins; the point of the exercise is to undermine trust and destabilise the social fabric. Us knowing that the Russians are meddling only makes their meddling more potent. We're completely zugzwanged.
|>>|| No. 28356
You really have no idea about Wikipedia, do you? This is what the IRA are up against:
|>>|| No. 28357
>Think about Litvenenko, Skripal or Navalny - you don't go around poisoning people with ultra-rare, highly-detectable chemicals if you want to remain anonymous.
Exactly. Their words say "We didn't do it, honest!" Their actions say "This is what happens when you cross us."
|>>|| No. 28358
Honestly if the population has had faith in most Western elections since ~1970 they deserve what they get. We'd look a lot better in hindsight if it turned out that the Soviets and Yeltsin were also responsible for the outcomes of everything since then. (Heck, it would tie in with the aim of undermining trust and destabilising the social fabric of Western society too. That's been a bipartisan consensus for a long time.)
To be clear, I'm not mocking the idea that Russia interferes in Western elections: They do. I'm mocking (and lamenting) how shite our choices were even before they started doing it in the effective fashion that they do now.
|>>|| No. 28359
The method of choice in Russia these days to actually shut up and off somebody without leaving clues as to who did it seems to be pushing them out of windows. If you just do a google search, you will find dozens of mentions of that mysterious phaenomenon of windows in Russia somehow luring people to their unexplained deaths.
Poisoning a series of public figures so that they end up having a realistic chance of survival can't just be explained by Russian secret service being shit at poisoning people. If they really want somebody dead, then it's reasonable to assume that the FSB has operatives skilled enough to make sure somebody actually dies, and then cover their tracks so that the Russian government isn't immediately implicated.
This was about sending a message. They didn't want Navalny dead. Probably because the diplomatic ramifications of outright killing an opposition leader would be much more grave. But now, Putin can just shrug his shoulders and say his government had nothing to do with it, while those in the know will have no doubt what is really going on.
|>>|| No. 28360
The thing the otherlads are missing is that yes, while Russia is no doubt up to sneaky shenanigans, it's not as if the entire western surveillance and security apparatus is just floored every time and powerless to stop them, outwitted at every turn and always one step behind... While the Russians are all but openly bragging about it.
The truth is ot serves both sides very well to be able to blame the other. It's like kayfabe in professional wrestling by this point.
|>>|| No. 28361
It will probably look like anti-US whining by an angry communist, but I'm very fond of the idea that the US government helped Yeltsin cheat the Communists out of the Russian presidency in 1996 (with a sort of "We'll break democracy just once, and that will help democracy in the long term compared to going back to the bad old USSR" view) and as a result permanently hobbled Russian democracy and so set the stage for Putin to lock himself in power and subsequently undermine US democracy. As a narrative it makes for an excellent comedy of errors.
|>>|| No. 28362
>it's not as if the entire western surveillance and security apparatus is just floored every time and powerless to stop them
The western intelligence system has been severely denuded in recent decades, with a massive over-reliance on electronic surveillance and whizz-bang algorithms. After 9/11, there was a massive and somewhat desperate effort to recruit Arabic and Farsi speakers, which indicates a massive intelligence failure - they were relying on technology to keep them informed on the middle east, but realised far too late that they needed people.
The Russians aren't geniuses, but they don't have to be; our lot are too clever for their own good. The Doughnut is rammed with PhDs working on elliptic curve theory, but we don't have nearly enough people out in the field cultivating assets and developing their tradecraft. We've forgotten the basics and the Russians know it. We've spent billions on developing the capacity to intercept the vast majority of internet traffic, while the FSB just bought a load of typewriters and went back to dead drops.
|>>|| No. 29064
>A majority of people believe Black Lives Matter, the anti-racism movement that spread across the UK this summer, has increased racial tension, according to a poll.
>Just over half (55%) of UK adults believe the BLM protests that took place in big cities but also in the Shetland Islands and the Isle of Wight, increased racial tensions, according to a survey of more than 2,000 people by pollsters Opinium. Only 17% of the people polled in October disagreed. The polling also showed 44% of ethnic minorities felt BLM increased racial tensions.
|>>|| No. 29065
But that doesn't really tell us what people think about BLM itself, just what they think the outcomes of BLM's protests have been.
|>>|| No. 29069
The general consensus seems to be that people agree with the notion that black lives matter but have a much less favourable view on the clusterfuck that is BLM UK as an organisation.
|>>|| No. 29070
Given that the same research shows that Asian people have had a similar rise in racist experiences to black people, they may have a point about the rise not being entirely due to BLM's actions.
Black and Asian Lives Matter would be so much easier to pronounce though, just BALM. Then you'd get some interesting confused mythology referencing Poe; "There is no BALM in Gilead" as in, there should be no minorities in the promised land, only that gets tied up with how Atwood used Gilead in her books.
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