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>> No. 27146 Anonymous
26th August 2020
Wednesday 10:54 pm
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I suppose it's time for a new thread seeing as the previous one is almost at 1,700 posts.

It's been kicking off in America (again) after the police have shot a black man (again). A couple of protesters/rioters have been killed after they were driven by the police towards an alt-right militia, with this planned in advance.
Expand all images.
>> No. 27147 Anonymous
26th August 2020
Wednesday 11:18 pm
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A lot of Leftist-Yank-twitter seems to be openly calling for armed revolt now, to the point I suspect a lot of them are Russian as it's really not a smart move for them, tactically. They don't have the arms for it.
>> No. 27148 Anonymous
26th August 2020
Wednesday 11:32 pm
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>>27147

Cowardice isn't a good enough reason to suffer tyranny.
>> No. 27149 Anonymous
26th August 2020
Wednesday 11:45 pm
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Why do so many of them have their shields upside down?
>> No. 27150 Anonymous
26th August 2020
Wednesday 11:56 pm
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>>27149
These are not highly trained men.
>> No. 27151 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:05 am
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>>27149
From their perspective if they look down it'll read correctly.
>> No. 27152 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:51 am
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>>27146
>alt-right militia

A 17 year old, out of state nutter more like. Granted he is a product of his time and upbringing, but "militia" is a strong word in this context.
>> No. 27153 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:59 am
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>>27148
I'm sure some are sincere, real Americans but I don't think it's cowardice to focus on building your strength to the point that you have a fighting chance before you engage in violence. Though obviously they're already dealing with violence aimed at them.
Don't mistake me, I'm not claiming to be a prophet or anything and I am rooting for them, I just don't fancy their chances right now. Enough Americans and their media are already poisoned against them, they're on the back-foot and it wouldn't at all surprise me to discover that it's just an intentional plot to create an excuse to violently suppress all dissent there.
>> No. 27154 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:16 am
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>>27152
The distance from Antioch in Illinois to Kenosha in Wisconsin is about 15 miles. Granted it's a different state but it'll be the nearest city to where he lives.

Militia may not be the right word, but I wasn't sure what else you'd call a group of armed civilians patrolling the area.

I'm fully expecting him to get away with it on self defence. One of the people shot dead had hit him over the head with a skateboard and I don't know if the other was the one pointing the handgun at him.
>> No. 27155 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 9:05 am
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>>27150
The kid is though. He goes to the ground, clears a jam, fires and executes a tactical stand up in the space of about 15 seconds while under attack and remained calm, he has been drilled by a police officer or a soldier for years to have that level of proficiency.

The fact he is 17 makes it doubly impressive.
>> No. 27156 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 9:10 am
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>>27154
>I'm fully expecting him to get away with it on self defence. One of the people shot dead had hit him over the head with a skateboard and I don't know if the other was the one pointing the handgun at him.

From watching a bit more footage, the first death occurred outside a car dealership. The gunman was there to protect it from rioters, who have been filmed en route shouting about how they were going to torch it, and when he was charged at he shot someone in the head. He's shown afterwards in the footage on the phone to the emergency services before fleeing.

https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1298558424213594118

When he was running away he was set upon and he shot a guy who attacked him with a skateboard. Another guy thought his semi-automatic had jammed so approached him with a pistol, which led to him getting shot in the arm.

https://www.rudgwicksteamshow.co.uk.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/igwaeb/video_shots_fired_in_kenosha_on_this_tuesday_night/

From what I can gather everyone involved was a monumental idiot.
>> No. 27157 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 10:51 am
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>>27156
Why were they set on torching a car dealership?
>> No. 27158 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:01 pm
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That kid just painted a lifelong target on himself.
>> No. 27159 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:01 pm
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That kid just painted a lifelong target on himself.
>> No. 27160 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:07 pm
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>>27157
Lots of small businesses have been targeted, including several car dealerships.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/kenosha-dealership-owner-says-violent-protests-caused-1-5m-in-damage-50-cars-torched

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kenosha-protest-riot-fires-car-dealership
>> No. 27161 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:12 pm
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>>27156
Why do people keep leaning in to this "he was protecting property" thing like it's a justification for murder? Then you frame the second murder as though it was self defense in an unrelated incident and not someone trying to disarm him for already having murdered?
>> No. 27162 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:13 pm
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That's a rhetorical question, I know why.
>> No. 27163 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 12:22 pm
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>>27161
The laws are actually quite clear in those states that have it - Texas for instance, you can protect your own property - the minute you step over the threshold, I can pretty much shoot you - but that doesn't carry over to protecting everyone elses property. Of course, there will be many who will defend him.

It will be interesting to see who else gets prosecuted - he isn't actually old enough to have that rifle, for a start - that is on either the parents/adults who bought the rifle, or the gun dealer that sold him it - they'll be part of the charges. Additionally, when he crossed state lines, this become a federal, not a local offence. I'm sure he'll get off.

What an awful business.
>> No. 27164 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 1:10 pm
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>>27161
>Why do people keep leaning in to this "he was protecting property" thing like it's a justification for murder

The so-called militia were there under the guise of protecting property, a lot of businesses were looted or badly damaged, which is why it is being mentioned. Nobody is using that as justification for killing someone.

>Then you frame the second murder as though it was self defense in an unrelated incident and not someone trying to disarm him for already having murdered?

The two killings were separate incidents, although one obviously led to the other. He was fleeing back to where he knew there were police officers when he tripped over and was pounced upon by protestors. If you're being hit over the head by a skateboard and have someone else drawing a gun on you I bet you'd find it difficult to know whether they were trying to kill you or simply disarm you.

Everyone involved is a colossal idiot whose hot-headed behaviour put them in a situation well outside of their depth. Being critical of both sides does not mean you are supportive of the gunman.
>> No. 27165 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 1:26 pm
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>>27164

>Being critical of both sides does not mean you are supportive of the gunman.
Okay mate.
>> No. 27166 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 1:27 pm
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Do you think as the lad who did the shooting walked, hands up, through the police lines, presumably expecting to get nicked, the penny dropped and he thought "oh, I get it, this is white privilege. This definitely isn't on, I should be arrested by now"?
>> No. 27167 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 1:33 pm
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>>27165
Sorry, did that not fit into your Good vs Evil worldview?
>> No. 27168 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 1:37 pm
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>>27167
You're continuing to equivocate between some people who were murdered and the person who murdered them as though they're both equally culpable.
>> No. 27169 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 2:57 pm
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>>27168
They were all convicted felons, apart from the kid. The one with the pistol who got shot in the arm isn't legally allowed to own a firearm, yet was carrying a pistol. One of them was a sex offender, can't remember which.

They're hardly innocent bystanders.
>> No. 27170 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 3:04 pm
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>>27169

>They were all convicted felons, apart from the kid

The fact you think that is somehow a relevant factor really demonstrates your abhorrent nature.
>> No. 27171 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 3:20 pm
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>>27170

Yeah, how dare FASCISTLAD besmirch the good names of those poor blameless crims.
>> No. 27172 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 3:26 pm
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>>27169
They're all innocent of murder, apart from the kid. Which is really the only thing that's relevant in this context, despite >>27171 pretending it's about "besmirching" their names.
>> No. 27173 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 3:43 pm
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>>27168>>27172
>murder

Manslaughter at most. Recent events have been a real shot in the arm for the Supreme Court of the Internet.
>> No. 27174 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 3:43 pm
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>>27169
>all convicted felons
>innocent bystanders

Oh come the fuck on. That is a quite ridiculous argument to make.
>> No. 27175 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:11 pm
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>>27165
It's quite simple, lad.

The gunman was a monumental twat.

The people he shot were monumental twats. You've got to be pretty thick to charge at and attempt to attack someone with an assault rifle; the first victim was bragging about how he was going to beat militia members up and steal their weapons. I believe he's also the one who was filmed repeatedly using the n-word, which is very strange for a white man to do at a BLM demonstration.

It's not a difficult concept. People can be twats regardless of which "side" they're supposedly on.
>> No. 27176 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:22 pm
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>>27175
This. This entire situation is born from the increasing efforts directed at creating division. The stupidest lap it up and run with it, across the board. Just see how politicised this is and how it's being used to create further division. The goal is to have them attacking eachother, and it's been working well so far.
>> No. 27177 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:24 pm
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>>27176
>the increasing efforts directed at creating division

Ah yes. If only there was an explanation for it.
>> No. 27178 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:25 pm
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>>27177
It's mental that it's essentially confirmed, but nobody cares. Maybe it's too late for them.
>> No. 27179 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:28 pm
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>>27176
Lucky for you to be such a wise centrist able to do nothing at all except create a division between yourself and everyone else.
>> No. 27180 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:40 pm
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>>27179

Russia is trying to start a civil war in the US, as part of a broader campaign to destabilise NATO. Most of the BLM protests and right-wing counter-protests are being orchestrated by Russian intelligence. This is not a conspiracy theory, but a verifiable fact. The people out rioting and the people shooting AR-15s at them are just pawns in a political game. If you side with either faction, you're having your strings pulled by Putin. The only way to win is not to play.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
>> No. 27181 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:45 pm
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>>27179
Oh dear, lad..
>> No. 27182 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:48 pm
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>>27179
If you look down you'll see yourself firmly grasping the wrong end of the stick.
>> No. 27183 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:51 pm
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>>27180
You don't win if you don't play, you just bulldozed by the people who do. Putin pulling strings doesn't mean black lives don't matter.
>> No. 27184 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 4:53 pm
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This new thread is a lot less intelligent than the previous one.
>> No. 27185 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 5:08 pm
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>>27184
It's moved straight into /pol/think of "if you criticise x that must mean you support y" and "any actions done in support of the side I'm on are right."
>> No. 27186 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 5:14 pm
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>>27183
>Putin pulling strings doesn't mean black lives don't matter.

Literally nobody said this.
>> No. 27187 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 5:19 pm
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>>27186
Oh I see, so they do matter but "the only way to win is not to play" so not to support or do anything against about it.
>> No. 27188 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 5:21 pm
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>>27187
>not to support or do anything against about it

Nobody said this either.
>> No. 27189 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 5:24 pm
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>>27188
Someone said
>The only way to win is not to play.
I'm not sure in what convenient way you're choosing to interpret that.
>> No. 27190 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 5:37 pm
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>>27170
So is everyone who discusses this from a perspective that doesn't laser align with your worldview abhorrent now? Fuck sake. They were part of a violent dissident mob which was committing criminal damage, assaulting people and they were all armed. The guy with the pistol had a warrant out for his arrest for rape as well as being a felon. The kid crossed state lines and is too young to carry that weapon, and he'll be punished accordingly, but you need to understand that is the only reason this is even contentious. If he was 18 and in his home state, he wouldn't even be charged with a felony.

Stop being a histrionic idiot, attacking people on an imageboard for disagreeing with your worldview and applying your own subjective moral compass to the pissing US, you'll drive yourself mental.
>> No. 27191 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 5:46 pm
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>>27189
And what about that says to you that black lives don't matter? You're making things up in your head that nobody has said and getting upset about them.
>> No. 27192 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:04 pm
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>>27191
Oh I see, so they do matter but "the only way to win is not to play" so not to support or do anything against about it.
>> No. 27193 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:07 pm
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>>27192
I think you're stuck in a loop, lad. We can't help you.
>> No. 27194 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:08 pm
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>>27192

I think he's suggesting that the system is set up to allow for minor outbursts of rebellion like this, that raging against the machine is useless if that's what the machine feeds on.
>> No. 27195 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:10 pm
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>>27194

Okay, but rather than suggesting anything that would actually help he's just throwing up his hands and saying fuck it. Which one could equally argue is exactly what "the machine" wants you to do.
>> No. 27196 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:15 pm
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>>27195
>he's just throwing up his hands and saying fuck it.

It really doesn't read like this to me, he could well be supporting/helping in other ways, how would you know? Why would he have to state that he is? Why is the onus on him to start pitching different ways to support?

His post was on the well documented tactics Russia has been using to create division, not about "how can we support black lives matters more effectively?". In no way does it read to me that "black lives don't matter", it just seems like you've got some serious hangups that you're projecting onto someone elses post here.
>> No. 27197 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:18 pm
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>>27196

Again, I'm not sure how you're choosing to interpret "the only way to win is not to play" as the words of someone who is actually involved in anything.
>> No. 27198 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:26 pm
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>>27197
We can't help you here, lad. Your inability to see this any other way is your problem. Personally I took it as talking about the politicisation of civil movements in the US, they are being gamed from the get go, which would mean it's time to start thinking about alternative tactics to work outside of this/rise above it. This is commentary as an aside from BLM, as it relates to any social movements in the states. It's not one or the other, and if you don't support one you support the other, mate..
>> No. 27199 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:28 pm
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>>27198

Thanks, I accept that explanation.
>> No. 27200 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:41 pm
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>A couple of protesters/rioters have been killed after they were driven by the police towards an alt-right militia, with this planned in advance

I keep trying to parse this and drawing blanks. Are you saying the two separate incidents of protesters being targeted by non-LEO individuals constitute a pre-meditated militia? Are you saying the police conspired with these individuals prior to the attacks? I can't find enough on reliable news sites to figure it out.
>> No. 27201 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 6:46 pm
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>>27195
The only way to fix this is stop letting the US police militarise, have them be trained by civilian contractors in appropriate restraint and conflict resolution and stop sending them to Israel to get trained to shoot anyone browner than them just incase.

The US police kill more white people than black people, but white people are sleep walking on this issue like it's a black issue and it isn't. As stated, Russia has succeeded in making this a "black issue" so white people have no inventive to change the system because they've been told they're privileged and the riots, again stoked by Russian interest in creating a Civil war in the US, have polarised the populace further. The US is circling the failed state drain.
>> No. 27202 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:09 pm
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>>27200

Here's a member of the militia saying the police told him they were going to drive the protesters towards them:
https://twitter.com/sicksadgirI/status/1298713121637326849
Here's an article discussing the pre-meditation of the militia:
https://apnews.com/64ff4770fe1f1daca001b2fbaae0933b
>> No. 27203 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:11 pm
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>>27202

And this one which is terrible quality but seems accurately described:
https://twitter.com/berniebromanny/status/1298509857134465025
>> No. 27204 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:21 pm
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I wish the bloody Americans would give it a rest already. I'm getting fucking sick of hearing about every time they shoot a black person. Can they not just fucking leave it now.

I know that's a very white privilege thing to say but I don't give a fuck, I don't live in America and no matter how much of a screaming twitter liberal you are, you can't convince me we share their issues. I can't be fucking arsed enduring this steaming shit-heap of a current affairs topic warmed up like yesterday's Chinese again, for fuck's sake.

It really can't be difficult to just not shoot people. Can't they just put out a nationwide order for pigs to just not shoot people. They have tasers and tear gas and rubber bullets and shit. What exactly is America's problem beyond the fact they all have cholesterol clogging up their brains and multi-generational mercury/fluoride poisoning rendering the majority of the population borderline lobotomised.
>> No. 27205 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:25 pm
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>>27204
I think when you're next in the office you should say this, verbatim, to your co-workers.
>> No. 27206 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:32 pm
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>>27201

>The only way to fix this is stop letting the US police militarise, have them be trained by civilian contractors in appropriate restraint and conflict resolution and stop sending them to Israel to get trained to shoot anyone browner than them just incase.

And the possible routes to achieve that point directly to the systemic dysfunction of the American political system. The US has nearly 18,000 different police forces at federal, state and municipal level. There is no federal agency responsible for police standards or oversight and the federal government has very limited ability to intervene in local policing - the Department of Justice can sue a police force, but they can't take control over it. Many parts of the US have elected police chiefs, sheriffs and judges, which can easily create a nepotistic quagmire of corruption, particularly in smaller jurisdictions where fines and civil forfeitures represent a large proportion of local government funding.

A lot of people have inferred a causal link between a racist president and racist policing, but bad policing is a long-standing and barely tractable problem in the US. Police brutality wasn't meaningfully better or worse under Obama, because the president really doesn't have much power to reform the police.
>> No. 27207 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:34 pm
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>>27205

If I worked in an office, I might understand the point you're trying to make. But among my current set of misfits and weirdos it wouldn't even be the most controversial thing someone has said this week.
>> No. 27208 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:39 pm
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>>27206
Let's also remember it's only been coming to light more now that everybody has a camera in their pocket.

>A lot of people have inferred a causal link between a racist president and racist policing

Unfortunately it's more to do with the fact that the FBI warned the police that they were getting infiltrated with white supremacists since 2006 and nothing was done about it. It's been left unchecked and this is the result.
>> No. 27209 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 7:47 pm
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>>27208

It's a much older problem, particularly in the south; the racism that exists in policing is largely reflective of the racism that exists in the wider community.
>> No. 27211 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 8:16 pm
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>>27204
> Can't they just put out a nationwide order for pigs to just not shoot people.
If the police don't shoot, they might get shot.
>> No. 27212 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 8:21 pm
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>>27203
That's mentioned in a time line the New York Times have cobbled together:

>About 15 minutes before the first shooting, police officers drive past Mr. Rittenhouse, and the other armed civilians who claim to be protecting the dealership, and offer water out of appreciation.

What I've found most telling about the whole sequence of events is this:

>In most of the footage The Times has reviewed from before the shootings, Mr. Rittenhouse is around this area. He also offers medical assistance to protesters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html

In a lot of the interviews I've seen with the militia they were quite supportive of the protestors, they just didn't agree with the looting and destruction of property.

I don't think the killer was a bad person or went out looking for a fight, reflected in him offering medical assistance to the protestors; he was simply a dumb naive kid caught up in a movement who expected that standing there with an assault rifle would be enough to deter those looking for trouble. We all know that was a grave miscalculation and the end result is what happens when you've got a scared child in a situation that has escalated well out of their control who is armed with a fucking assault rifle. In other words, he's human.
>> No. 27213 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 9:17 pm
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>>27211
A risk our own police manage fine. Seen a raid team disarm and restrain 2 people in a drug bust in England somewhere with only armour and tasers, yet they managed to not get anyone killed or get killed themselves even though it was later revealed that both were armed.

Seppo police are fucking nancy boys.
>> No. 27214 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 9:32 pm
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>>27213

One big difference - America is absolutely lousy with guns. If a British police officer suspects that someone might have a gun, they'll call in an armed response unit and leave them to it. Here, pulling over a driver who has a pistol in their glove box is a rare and serious incident; in the US, it's a daily occurrence. British police officers are shot at a rate of about two per decade, while American police officers are shot at a rate of about one a week. If you do get shot in a less-populated area (particularly at night), there's a real possibility that the nearest officer might be half an hour away on blue lights.

Policing in America is uniquely dysfunctional for a variety of reasons, but the solutions that work here won't necessarily work there. Seppo police are broadly incompetent and trigger-happy, but they need a different set of skills to British police.
>> No. 27215 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 9:54 pm
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>>27214
Their "Warrior Training" is part of the problem. The best officers in the US are usually the ones who are ex-military, because their rules of engagement are stricter than the polices, where they just escalate everything.
>> No. 27216 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 10:58 pm
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>>27214

That's all well and good, these arguments have been gone over many times before. And I'm not even disputing them, there's truth in a lot of what you say- But it fails to address one question. Do they need to shoot people?

Obviously the line of logic is that if the baddies have guns, the goodies need to have guns, and that's doubly obvious in a place where you find guns laying around like we'd find a quid down the side of the sofa cushions. But is it actually a logically correct, helpful, assumption? Do the pigs actually have to shoot anyone, even if cunts are trying to shoot them?

What is wrong with non-lethal alternatives? Why are they unsuitable and shooting people dead is the only answer? I'm not asking these questions as smart-arsed rhetorical devices, if you have an answer please give me them. But I have a feeling it's less to do with the efficacy of non-lethal weaponry, and everything to do with an entrenched culture and lack of willingness to change it, because if I were a Yank copper with a moustache and sunglasses, I'd be about as willing to give up my gun as have my penis cut off too.

I think American policing, if anything, is under-funded. Calls to de-fund the police are naive, short sighted, and counterproductive. But it's also true to say that despite all these cultural idiosyncrasies, the American copper could learn a lot from the more civilised, developed countries of the world.
>> No. 27217 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 11:02 pm
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>>27216
>I think American policing, if anything, is under-funded.
Really? This chart is a bit meaningless without some non-American cities to compare it to but it seems a bit of a stretch.
>> No. 27218 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 11:20 pm
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>>27217

Considering how miniscule Yank public spending is in general, yeah, that's probably still a less than adequate funding level. Fire departments do next to nothing but installing fire alarms these days and they're not getting a much smaller cut. I mean... Parks? Parks only cost 1/4 of what the entire police force of Portland costs?

There's also the fact American cities/states are mad huge. You need a lot of coppers to cover the kind of territory they have there, and as other lad alludes to, if the nearest back up is 30 minutes away a copper backed into a corner is probably much more prone to act combatively.
>> No. 27219 Anonymous
27th August 2020
Thursday 11:40 pm
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>>27218
I suppose a European city would have other public services; housing and such that would change the proportions a lot.
>> No. 27220 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 1:06 am
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>>27215
A great example would be the PSNI, who at the height of the troubles were getting shot at constantly and still had a lower body count than the US police. A lot of PSNI officers, even to this day, are ex armed forces.

So it's not the military training per se that makes yank cops mental, it's whatever they got taught during their IDF lead training that makes them like that. I suspect they are being trained to treat everyone browner than them as if they were a Palestinian teenager.

The IDF can claim all the like that they never taught the US police to kneel on people's necks or whatever, but we have the video evidence of the police using those techniques and they trained them.
>> No. 27221 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 8:44 am
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>>27217

The US employs 35% fewer police per capita than the world average.

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/06/underpoliced-and-overprisoned-revisited.html

>>27216

>What is wrong with non-lethal alternatives? Why are they unsuitable and shooting people dead is the only answer?

The sheer ubiquity of handguns in the US means that routine encounters can go very wrong very quickly. This makes British-style de-escalation less useful in a wide range of circumstances, because things can go from perfectly calm to a gunfight in a couple of seconds. American cops do need to learn those de-escalation techniques (particularly because they deal with an absurdly large number of mental health related call-outs), but it's less broadly useful to them.

Tasers are the only reasonable substitute for guns in most of the situations where they're used in the US, but they aren't especially reliable. You only get one shot before you have to reload, you only have a range of about 20 feet and an accurate shot is often ineffective because the probes don't always penetrate through clothing. The latest generation of Taser improves some of these issues, but a) I still wouldn't necessarily trust my life to it and b) most US police forces just can't afford to upgrade.

The most important problem in US policing is poor recruitment and training, but that's very difficult to systematically address for reasons I outlined here >>27206.

>>27220

>A great example would be the PSNI, who at the height of the troubles were getting shot at constantly and still had a lower body count than the US police.

There are some very big differences. Northern Ireland presented the police with a relatively small number of armed criminals/daft militant wogs/freedom fighters with a generally unarmed population, whereas guns are totally ubiquitous in many US states. Northern Ireland is geographically very compact which makes it far easier to draw in other police resources. Ultimately it was the British Army who did most of the dirty work - we can't praise the RUC without acknowledging that the British government was using internment and assassination to pre-emptively deal with threats.
>> No. 27222 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 9:07 am
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Isn't one of the major issues with the police in certain jurisdictions in America the lack of accountability? The police force will always attract bullies with tough guy fantasies, similar to how financial services will always attract fraudsters, but the ability to act with impunity can turn them into monsters.
>> No. 27227 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 10:04 am
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>>27222
The accountability is definitely one issue - but the militarisation of so many federal forces is the other. Many of these police departments got their kit and vehicles direct/free from the federal government under a "recycling" program - I mean, what the fuck are they doing with Mine-Resistant vehicles?

As an example, I found it very amusing (but sinister) that earlier in the week Steve Bannon was arrested on a boat - that was done by a SWAT team from the US Postal Inspection Service - again, what the actual fuck? Postman Pat armed to the teeth?
>> No. 27228 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 10:11 am
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>>27227

Don't fuck with the USPIS.



Americans are all complete mentaloids. Mine the Atlantic to defend European sanity.
>> No. 27229 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 10:26 am
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>>27221

>The sheer ubiquity of handguns in the US means that routine encounters can go very wrong very quickly. This makes British-style de-escalation less useful in a wide range of circumstances, because things can go from perfectly calm to a gunfight in a couple of seconds.

That still doesn't answer the question I posed. You only have a gunfight if someone opens fire, and the coppers are shooting back. If they don't return fire it's not a gunfight. Why do the coppers have to shoot back? Can't they just retreat and chuck a few flashbang/tear gas grenades while they wait for backup?

Tasers can let you down and they only work on a lightly dressed assailant from close range, that's fair enough. But what about those riot police rubber bullets? Salt loaded buckshot? Those things put anyone on the floor. This is what I'm trying to get at-Just because someone has a gun and is prepared to use it, doesn't mean the only way of solving that situation is shooting them dead with your own gun.

There are alternative options and they are being blindly dismissed because people can't get their head out of this action movie paradigm where the only way to protect oneself from a shooter is shooting them. I'm not trying to sound like a smarmy smart arse and I'm certainly not devout anti-gun type, I do like me some guns. I wish we had them here. But I think the Yanks have a really fucked up mentality where they still treat everyday life as though it's the old West, and getting over the inherent psychology of conflict and standing one's ground would go a lot further to helping them, as a society, than any kind of gun laws or restrictions or political interference with racial demographics etc.

Of course, you're right that a large part of it is simply training. US police are trained to shoot people dead as the first resort, not the last. But that's what I'm getting at, it has to be a drastic reversal to de-program those police officers into reaching for their guns as the very last option, and in turn I think that could even cause a ripple effect in the way American criminals use firearms, and indeed American civilians. It's all a very deep rooted psychological counter-offensive thing I reckon, not defensive.
>> No. 27241 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 11:28 am
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This seams relevant to context

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-court-ruled-you-can-be-too-smart-to-be-a-cop/5420630

If you are 'too smart' you are disqualified from being a cop in the United States. Regardless of the soft institutional racism of theses organisations being historically slave patrols, there is a hard institutionl requirement for them not to have deductive reasoning skills.
>> No. 27242 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 11:34 am
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>>27180
The presumption that Russia is hyper-competent at implementing these plans seems misplaced. The odds of the US descending into civil war aren't too high all things considered, while the potential political advantages that come from the current instability could be quite high indeed for one side or another in US politics. All it takes is for Russia to be slightly incompetent for their plans to be usurped and the whole thing to end with President Sanders-Skeleton in 2036.
(Also, the last US protest I'm seeing in that article which is assigned to the Russian-IRA is from 2017.)
>> No. 27244 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 12:30 pm
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>>27242
The report was published in 2017, it's not going to have updated intelligence.
>> No. 27246 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 1:02 pm
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>>27242

You are wrong, because you haven't understood the Russian agenda properly. You assume clear end goal, when there is no clear end goal. The purpose is not achieve any one position the point is to keep all debate and decent flowing constantly no matter how minor and to exaggerate it to position of ineptitude. You never need to start a fire, in fact it works better if you don't you just have to fan the flames


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE


I'm sure Russia never expected to get Trump into the White House they just wanted the political landscape to look like shit show, but the fact that they did is double win.
>> No. 27250 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 2:27 pm
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I don't understand why anyone here cares. 400 people get shot every day in the US.
>> No. 27251 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 2:43 pm
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>>27250
What is empathy?
>> No. 27252 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 2:52 pm
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>>27251
It's a finite resource, and best reserved for people you know.
>> No. 27253 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 2:54 pm
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>>27250

Because if you don't constantly virtue signal how much of a tragedy it is that racism still exists you're a thought criminal.
>> No. 27254 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 3:12 pm
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>>27251
Almost certainly not what you think it is.
>> No. 27255 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 3:18 pm
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>>27252
>>27254
What a bunch of miserable buggers. Anyway you missed the joke.
>> No. 27256 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 3:23 pm
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>>27252
>It's a finite resource
No it isn't. Dunbar's number may have an upper capacity limit but it's fluid, people can be added and removed as need be to suit any given moment. You could be up to your maximum and yet unless you're just angry and bitter at life, you'd still stop to help out a child in need.
>> No. 27257 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 3:27 pm
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>>27256
But it's cool and edgy to say, innit.
>> No. 27258 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 3:44 pm
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>>27256

Without Googling it, who is the current president of D.R. Congo? What happened this week in Niamey, Niger? Ten children were killed this morning in an incident in the north-west of Uganda - how did they die?

We're now constantly being told that black lives matter, but we're also constantly directed to only pay attention to the 40 million black people in America or the two million black people in Britain, while studiously ignoring the 1.2 billion black people in Africa.

Empathy may or may not be a finite resource (the science would certainly suggest that it is), but there is most definitely a limit on how much stuff we can usefully pay attention to.

We have a cultural belief that paying attention to the news is a civic duty, but it's called the "news" not the "importants". Outlets like the BBC do a remarkably good job of avoiding political bias, but they have a fundamental bias towards stories that are a) anomalous, b) fit into a constructed narrative about current trends and c) are easy to report on.

Those biases create a popular understanding of the world that is hopelessly wrong, not because we've been told and believed facts that are incorrect, but because we have constructed a picture of the world based on unrepresentative samples. We are fed a constant stream of not particularly relevant information with very limited context and believe that we're becoming more informed about the world, when in fact the opposite is happening:


>> No. 27259 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 3:59 pm
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>>27258
I competely agree, but this is a thread about US news/politics involving BLM and a discussion about how it's been influenced, as well as addressing the other socio-economic issues related to it all. Everything on this thread is on topic, isn't it? A fair few posts in this have been very informative as well, so I'm not quite sure what the other lad was on about when he said he's surprised people care. Some people in this thread were just looking for more clarity on the core issues too. Otherwise couldn't we just dismiss everything with "Why do you care? Do you even know what's going on in the congo?"
>> No. 27260 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 4:01 pm
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>>27258
The fuck are you talking about? Are you genuinely confused why Black Lives Matter doesn't have a branch in the Congo?
>> No. 27261 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 4:13 pm
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>>27229

>That still doesn't answer the question I posed. You only have a gunfight if someone opens fire, and the coppers are shooting back. If they don't return fire it's not a gunfight. Why do the coppers have to shoot back? Can't they just retreat and chuck a few flashbang/tear gas grenades while they wait for backup?

American police undoubtedly shoot people when there were other options, they're undoubtedly trained to be needlessly trigger-happy, but they also face the kind of situations where your only realistic options are to shoot back or get shot. Better training can substantially reduce the number of officer-involved shootings, but they won't eliminate them entirely.

Someone who has decided to start shooting at you is unlikely to stop firing if you run away, nor are they likely to just stand there looking confused because you've run off.

If you start shooting at the police in the UK, you won't be taken down by a rubber bullet or pepper spray - you will be shot with live ammunition until you are very definitely dead. British people very rarely shoot at police officers, they rarely have guns and those that do are rarely stupid enough to point them at other people with guns, but Americans do it with alarming regularity. That's not an easy problem to fix.






>> No. 27262 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 4:20 pm
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>>27260

No, I'm saying that we should try and step back from whatever the heated argument of the week is and try and look at the bigger picture. I'm saying that if you do genuinely believe that black lives matter, you should take some time to learn about the continent where the overwhelming majority of black people live and reflect on whether the issues there are more pressing than the issues that the news is telling you to care about. I'm saying that the news has decided that Nigel Farage deserves more airtime than an entire continent, but thanks to the internet we don't have to be complicit in that process.

The really important stuff in the world changes over a period of decades rather than days, so a relatively small shift from "news" to "importants" has a vastly disproportionate effect on your understanding of the world.
>> No. 27263 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 4:38 pm
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>>27262
You're a concern troll, and I'm not going to take you seriously.
>> No. 27264 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 4:48 pm
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>>27263
The only reason you care about this one shooting out of tens of thousands is you've been told to. This isn't about BLM, it's a social media proxy war between Trump and anti Trumpites. Why it should concern any Brit is beyond me, yet its top news on the BBC every day.
>> No. 27265 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 4:49 pm
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>>27264
Addendum: fuck, BBC news has the US election as higher priority listing than UK news on their own bloody website.

We are obsessed with that fetid nation.
>> No. 27281 Anonymous
28th August 2020
Friday 6:48 pm
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>>27262

There's a particular strain of left-leaning liberal, these days, who think they are anti-racist, anti-imperialist progressives, when in reality they are at best very lukewarm centrists. The whole narrative surrounding BLM and America's racial tension is a strange kind of doublethink that seeks to somehow eliminate racism without meaningfully affecting any of the structural systems that actually cause, perpetuate and subject black people to poverty and oppression.

You won't get through to these people trying to logically explain why their attention is misdirected or their priorities skewed. Just go look at the rabidly pro-Biden lads in the US election thread. To their mind, you have to pick a side, and trying to retain an independent, rational perspective on the world makes you as good as the actual fascists on the other side.
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