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>> No. 95169 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 2:04 am
95169 Angela Rayner
Boris is looking completely lost, Keir is a bit of wet rag and I'm unsure of her connections to the Corybnista loonies. But that said, Boris is over and done now - I like her very much, and she will probably be the next Prime Minister and it's going to be fucking awesome.
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>> No. 95170 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 12:14 pm
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She sold out the left for a hint of power at Keith's side. She's a snake.
>> No. 95171 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 12:36 pm
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>>95170
The fact the left hate her for this, is quite attractive.
>> No. 95172 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 12:59 pm
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>>95170
"Sold out the left so she could have more heft with the dominant left wing party" doesn't seem like incisive commentary - are you sure you just don't like her because she doesn't represent what you want Labour to be, or what you think the left should be?

I'm starting to wonder if one of the big factors in the fragmenting of the left wing is how their shared identity seems to be premised on 'I'm not right wing' rather than any sort of actual consistent system of values.
>> No. 95173 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 1:44 pm
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>>95172

"Not a tory" is basically good enough at this point.
>> No. 95174 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 1:53 pm
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>>95172
It doesn't make sense to you because you don't appear to see any ideological difference between the Labour establishment and Labour supporters such as >>95170, as per your comment that Labour is "the dominant left wing party".

Post-Corbyn, the Labour machine has pivoted back to bland centrist managerialism. Policies announced at their 2021 conference (based on an article I found from a quick Google) include "scrap unfair business rates", "funding for dementia research", "making work experience compulsory", "new police hubs", "a £35m fund to help British veterans"... how much of this stuff could you honestly say you would never hear coming out of Tory conference?
>> No. 95175 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 2:50 pm
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>>95174
How are any of those left or right wing policies? My understanding is that cutting business rates would have more of an impact on small businesses (I would like to know more on this if anyone has a breakdown), dementia is both terrible and looking very treatable, as for the others they're just kind of neither here nor there.

>how much of this stuff could you honestly say you would never hear coming out of Tory conference?
Are you suggesting that if the two main parties agree on a policy it might be worse for people than if they disagreed?

Were you expecting more 'free internet' stuff? I'm still pissed at Corbyn for throwing that out at the completely wrong time and feeding into the 'magic money tree' narrative. I mean I would be keen on raised income tax especially at higher brackets, and a new bracket (or two) introduced, so I suppose I see where you're coming from.
>> No. 95176 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 2:54 pm
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>>95175
>How are any of those left or right wing policies?
Oh, I see.

>It doesn't make sense to you because you don't appear to see any ideological difference between the Labour establishment and Labour supporters
I understand Labour supporters covers a wide range but I don't know what those on the further left expected. If they want a return to the 80's they need to create an Old Labour party, but then that's another fragment. It's been like this for a while now, to the extent that Corbyn and McDonnel would have just fitted right in there.
>> No. 95177 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 4:39 pm
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My issue with Rayner is that she sounds like she's got a bag of marbles in her mouth when she's talking, so she comes across like a right thicko before you even pay attention to what she's saying (which is generally some poorly articulated nonsense). I'm not a fan of her working class tourettes, either. This is without even mentioning the shoes incident.
>> No. 95178 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 4:50 pm
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>>95172

>I'm starting to wonder if one of the big factors in the fragmenting of the left wing is how their shared identity seems to be premised on 'I'm not right wing' rather than any sort of actual consistent system of values

Actually, in the bigger picture, it's precisely the opposite of that. When you think about it, what are the values that unite the right? What makes a conservative a conservative, and why is that so likely to make them a Conservative even if they don't necessarily like what the Conservatives are doing? Conservative.

When you really boil it down, the ideological distinction between the left and the right is that of collectivism versus individualism. The right still has its share of factionalism, it's just at the end of the day what they want is quite simple: Less market regulation, less state interference, less taxes, etc. No matter what squabbles they might have over the finer points of the argument, they can all quite easily align around very broad libertarian principles. The specifics don't matter so much because the very goal is to have less policy, not more.

That's precisely why covid has seen the party implode. For the first time in recent memory they have been forced to deal with internal conflicts that can't be compromised over, forced to try and find consensus on things that run contrary to their very fundamental beliefs.

In effect, this is what the left has to deal with all the time. When your ideology is concerned with the state actively taking a role in shaping markets, actively enforcing regulations, and actively influencing the outcomes of people's lives, there's a lot more scope for disagreement. There's a lot more room to argue about how exactly things should be done, there's a lot more scope for disagreement on what should be prioritised and what shouldn't, and there's a lot more scope for those values to be "sold out" and influenced by lobbyists and business interests, etc.

Pulling Labour to the right involves abandoning principles and ideals. Pulling the Tories to the left only means promising to spend a bit more cash up north, which you can easily walk back on later.
>> No. 95179 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 6:45 pm
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>>95178
>Pulling Labour to the right involves abandoning principles and ideals.
Here's a problem: the left absolutely believe they are fighting for justice and what's right. The right don't see themselves as evil, but they don't have this moral obligation to do one specific thing, and everything else is a deplorable act of wickedness. So the right are less prone to blaming the people alongside them for not being upstanding enough. It's like the left thinks it's Superman, but the right isn't Lex Luthor; it's just Jimmy Olson.
>> No. 95180 Anonymous
6th January 2022
Thursday 7:08 pm
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>>95179

Well, this is why I was quite careful to avoid using value judgements in that post.

It's not really about the right vs wrong of it, how moving towards the centre means becoming more evil or anything; although the true believers on either side certainly see it that way. In the more abstract sense it's just that you're forced to give up an active thing in favour of a more passive not-thing.

Fundamentally it's the difference between progress and change (for better or worse), versus preserving the status quo (for better or worse). Action versus inaction. The morality is all subjective, but that distinction has always been true.
>> No. 95181 Anonymous
7th January 2022
Friday 7:43 pm
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>>95177
>I'm not a fan of her working class tourettes, either. This is without even mentioning the shoes incident.

So what about her taste in shoes, she just has personality that goes beyond that of a career politician.

The problem under labour prior to Kier wasn't that there was anything wrong with the policies, it's that it was being led by people who were as thick as pig shit who've left a permanent taint on real left wing ideologies in this country just through association. Yes Corbyn supported a lot of good causes as a backbench MP and we need more people with his principals in charge of this country, but we definitely don't need someone in charge of the country who barely scraped two grade E A-levels and dropped out of a polytechnic for thinking he knew better than the teachers.
And we don't need someone in charge of the country who can't even manage to dress themselves without putting on two left shoes.
>> No. 95182 Anonymous
7th January 2022
Friday 7:54 pm
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>>95181
>So what about her taste in shoes, she just has personality that goes beyond that of a career politician.

Being a vindictive cunt is not a good personality trait.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mp-used-house-commons-paper-6794276
>> No. 95222 Anonymous
14th January 2022
Friday 5:59 pm
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People are ‘accent policing’ Angela Rayner – why does this only ever seem to happen to women?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/angela-rayner-tweets-accent-northern-b1992377.html

Do people really have an issue with her having a Northern accent or is it more to do with the fact she sounds as thick as the "Joris Bohnson" lad?
>> No. 95224 Anonymous
14th January 2022
Friday 6:33 pm
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>>95178

The Tory party is a loose coalition of people with very different ideological positions. There are certainly small-state libertarians, but there are also nationalists, populists and reactionaries. The party is and always has been irreconcilably divided on a multitude of issues; the main thing they have in common is a willingness to work together.

Covid hasn't caused the party to explode. The drawing to a close of Brexit did bring up a lot of internal divisions, but the party is remarkably resilient to that sort of thing. The leadership has collapsed, but that's a very different matter. CCHQ is still in fighting form and they've got half a dozen leadership candidates who could win an election. It doesn't matter which of those people become leader; the party will give them their full support (at least in public) and build a campaign around them.
>> No. 95228 Anonymous
14th January 2022
Friday 8:33 pm
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>>95222
There's something about women's voices in general, I think. I remember having a 1980s voice simulator on the Commodore 64, and the instruction manual explained that the robotic voice was female because women's voices are easier to understand than men's voices. And indeed, all the voices on trains and things are nearly always women. So perhaps it's to do with that. However, I know a soft-spoken Southern lady with a genuinely retarded voice, like she properly goes "duhhhh" when she speaks, and I don't mind her voice because it doesn't really have an accent. Meanwhile, that BBC voiceover woman from Blackburn is fucking awful. Her accent is so deliberate, so forced, so obviously chosen by committee to sound "ordinary" and, most offensively of all, "just like you, you ignorant peasant". I could actually go to Blackburn and never once hear an accent as strong as hers. I hate her.

So it's probably the Northern thing rather than sounding like a moron. But then, I think a few of the posters here type like dickheads with your "cop wor lass's tits, aye" bollocks. Again, if you don't know anyone who talks like that in real life, it sounds so fake.
>> No. 95232 Anonymous
14th January 2022
Friday 10:23 pm
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>>95228
Come to think of it, since I posted this, I have also remembered that I hate Danny Dyer and anyone with too much of a Bristol accent too. So I guess people (=me, the ambassador of all humanity) hate Angela Rayner because she has a strong accent, rather than anything beyond that.
>> No. 95237 Anonymous
14th January 2022
Friday 11:11 pm
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>>95222

My only objection to this is that they have a pretty valid point and then they have to spoil it by going all "Ehhhr but the poooor woeeemmeeenn :( :( :("

Let's say I had a telephone interview, prior to a full interview, with some fancy City of London family company. Do you reckon I'd improve my chances if I covered up my thick Sarf Leeds chav drawl and pretended to be posh? Yes, the answer is definitely and unequivocally yes.
>> No. 95239 Anonymous
15th January 2022
Saturday 2:29 am
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>>95237>>95232
Accent bias is absolutely a thing. Isn't it Brummies who are perceived to be the least intelligent in the UK according to accent bias? Least trustworthy at least.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/brummie-accent-ranked-least-trustworthy-19204313

>>95222
She's thoroughly up her own arse if she thinks this specific thing is about gender. It's mindboggling that one could even isolate it to that considering how massively obvious it is that 'working class' accents exist and 'northern' accents are looked down on, while RP accents are seen as a mark of quality and intelligence.

It must either be clickbait or complete self absorption.

>So it's probably the Northern thing rather than sounding like a moron. But then, I think a few of the posters here type like dickheads with your "cop wor lass's tits, aye" bollocks. Again, if you don't know anyone who talks like that in real life, it sounds so fake.
I remember the first time I heard a geordie say 'pal', and when I sounded it out it felt so wrong. A few years of living in the area and it's now completely natural and feels normal for me to say.

And you're going to find people hamming it up here, especially now they know you find it annoying.

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