>Many English masons complained about their docu

Nice to see that whatever creepy, arcane society they join, pissing off the English is still more important to them.

>>22095
The Grand Lodge of England had a pretty high profile documentary on Sky last year, we even had a thread about it, which a lot of English masons took Umbrage towards.

I have no idea what you're referencing.

What do masons actually do? Just pretend they're more important than they are?

>>22096

I assumed this was the Scotch Masons or something, because it's on BBC Scotland and all.

How many kids have you murdered to honour Molek, you disgusting nonce cunt?

>>22097
>pretend they're more important than they are?
What makes you say this?

Masonry is about being a better person and charity, first and foremost. It's open to absolutely anyone that believes there is a higher power, including women (no women rule is a myth, see: Grand Lodge of The Eastern Star) and that is how its worded; masonry is speculative and is entirely open to the interpretation of the individual and they welcome all faiths and all races.

There is an oath, where you promise to keep the secrets masons use to identify each other, but nothing that would inflate your ego. The journey to become a Master Mason is all about de-constructing the ego. Masons aren't told they are special, they are implicitly told never to disgrace their station or be cast out. Most masons, in Scotland at least, do something with their lives that tries to enrich society and benefit their fellow man. Paramedics, teachers, councillors, care workers, etc. There are more traditional lodges that only recruit people from the construction industry, but that is about preserving the history and origin of the craft not elitism.

The Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England is the Duke of Kent, so I can understand if you think it's full of toffs, however the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Scotland is just some guy who has devoted his life to being a better person.

>>22098
Your reading comprehension needs considerable work, lad.

>>22099

>The Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England is the Duke of Kent

So it's as many kiddies as you can muster or more like one a month? How many fucking kids have you personally seen killed, you despicable twat?

>>22099

>There is an oath, where you promise to keep the secrets masons use to identify each other

Why? What purpose does this serve? Simple tradition?

>What makes you say this?

Just that in my experience, masons tend to love to mention the masons and how great they are. It feels like an ego thing to me. You did just spend two paragraphs telling me how much you enrich society.

What would I gain from joining a lodge that I couldn't achieve by giving my money to cancer kids or something?

>>22101
How bizarre.

FOAM FROM HIS MOUTH
STEAM FROM HIS EARS, etc.

>>22102
I spent two paragraphs telling you how much I respect my peers, I never made any claim as to my own contribution as it's not as pronounced, but I do think Masons are a net benefit to society as they consistently raise thousands of pounds every week for local charities that help the elderly or the disabled that don't receive Govt funding. Also, these people tend to come to masonry after they've already chosen their careers. Almost like something about it attracted them, but I digress.

Freemasonry is a brotherhood, so by joining or more accurately by the lodge accepting you you'll never find yourself destitute because your brothers will help you if you find yourself in trouble. You also get the opportunity to mingle with people from all walks of life and be treated as an equal, which is no small thing. What you get out of it is entirely dependant on what you put into it. You can study the mysteries and progress or simply spend your time meeting like minded people who share your values.

So I was obviously taking the piss by accusing him of worshipping Molek and killing children, but the way in which he hasn't said "that's obviously not true, idiot", is a touch alarming, I've probably just freaked a square though.

However, I am genuinely distrustful of any organisation who's beliefs are "doing charity and being nice", because everyone believes in that, and even a Mason can lie, mate. And the entire culture of secrecy is repelent, if you can't see how that can lead to seriously dangerous situations then you haven't been paying attention.

>>22105
>"doing charity and being nice"
Tories, in other words. Fuck them.

>>22102
>Why? What purpose does this serve? Simple tradition?

To add, it's to stop non-masons from entering the Lodge under false pretences and to prevent masons who aren't raised into a specific degree from being exposed to masonic secrets before they've done the corresponding degree.

Masonic lodges have been convenient scapegoats for civil unrest across the ages, which has helped shape the Order's practises. People turned away for not knowing the signs and passwords assumed we must be devil worshippers because reasons. The Nazi party thought they were Jewish puppets, because of some of the Abrahamic symbolism, and started wiping them out. They're rightly paranoid about outsiders as a result, as a similar thing happened in Saudi Arabia recently and it's outlawed for being Jewish... or something, I'm unclear on it.

The Royal family being masons going back hundreds of years fuels conspiracy theories about it, too. The reason they join though is, ironically, philanthropic as Masonic charities tend to be grass roots.

>>22094
I visited their central hall/HQ in Covent Garden a while ago - quite brilliant building.

>>22107

I still don't get why - you've just said that they need to be secretive because their secrecy breeds suspicion. That's circular logic at its finest. I fully understand the need for privacy, from government in particular, but if what you're trying to hide can be described as raising money for charity and mingling, then no embedded intelligence agent has any grounds to act against to anyway.

What I mean is, nobody's trying to persecute the Rotary Club.

Either the secret passwords are an ego thing or there's a legitimate need for secrecy within the lodge. I'd prefer it was the former.

>>22109
>Rotary Club

Actually I find it amusing and interesting that they've been mentioned in this thread - people who are Rotarians use exactly the same arguments as the people who are Masons. I would like to believe that they both do exactly the same things, albeit the Masons seem to have a penchant for dressing up and ritual. Like you though, concerned about all these secret handshakes/passwords and meeting places - Rotarians seem to achieve just the same without all that. Interesting.

Anyone here a Rotarian, for balance?

>>22105
It's obviously bollocks, I thought you were a loon and arguing with you would have been a waste of energy. You need to be 18 to even enter a lodge, and even then you need to accompanied by your Dad, who also needs to be a mason, until you're 21.

Everyone doesn't believe in the kind of socialist values Masonry holds dear, which is as far from >>22106 this as I can imagine. I have no doubt there are Tories who are masons because I know a few, but it's mostly working class people. The fact they vote Tory doesn't stop them from spending their weekend transporting the elderly to social clubs to get them out the house, they're not claiming these pensioners should have planned for their retirement better by needing charity.

I mean, how do you even define a Tory? As someone who votes conservative or a royalist right-wing Christian fundamentalist? All the Masons I know, regardless of their political affiliation, are really left wing. You've now got me contemplating what sort of cognitive dissonance is going on in their minds.

Politics is out and out banned from the lodge though, politicos are shunned heavily as it has nothing to do with freemasonry.

>>22111

>It's obviously bollocks, I thought you were a loon and arguing with you would have been a waste of energy. You need to be 18 to even enter a lodge, and even then you need to accompanied by your Dad, who also needs to be a mason, until you're 21.

That's the sort of rule I'd publicly state if my secret organisation was sacrificing children, too.

>>22109
The order protects a story, which you learn as you progress. That story is seen as important enough to need secrecy. They are called the mysteries.

The majority of Rotarians are also masons, by the by. So are the Colliers and Miners Welfare organisations, as well as the British Legion. There is a lot of crossover.

>>22111

So Freemasons believe in nothing and insist on complete secrecy regardless? What the hell for? I mean, if you don't understand the absurdity of that then I guess you're too dumb to join any other club. And someone's pointed out the ego factor of being a Freemason and how much humble-bragging you lot do, which seems like what you've done by making this thread.

You STILL haven't taken sacrificing children to Molek off the table so that's still a possibility as far as I'm concerned, and I didn't even really think that until I started posting ITT.

>>22109
>you've just said that they need to be secretive because their secrecy breeds suspicion.
No I didn't. I added that the lodge is suspicious of outsiders, I didn't say that was why they are secretive. It was an observation, there really is no need to be antagonistic. As time goes on, the combined arse clenching of the Order is relaxing which is why Documentaries like this are being made.

To clarify, I'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking here. Masonic ritual isn't going to be for you if you're not spiritual and are atheist, although anti-theists abound within the lodge as the organisation is so old it has witnessed countless horrors committed against themselves and others in the name of Religion.

>>22113

>The order protects a story, which you learn as you progress. That story is seen as important enough to need secrecy. They are called the mysteries.

Amazing. I'm going to make it my life's work to uncover them. Or this evening, at least.

I'm assuming this is a false flag to distract investigators from the truth, though.

>>22115

I'm genuinely not trying to antagonise. I want to understand.

>>22114
I don't even know who or what the fuck Molek is m8, what do you want a signed statement? A mason killed his mother with a sword because he thought she was possessed by a demon recently, if that satisfies you.

There is absolutely nothing stopping someone who believes in "Molek" from becoming a mason though. He'd be booted out after, let me think here... maybe the 3rd child? One or two could be chalked up as accident, but 3 is a clear pattern of behaviour.

I made this thread to talk about the TV show that is going to be on the telly and answer questions. If you still think it's weird, I'm cool with that.

>>22116
>I'm assuming this is a false flag to distract investigators from the truth, though.
Are your referring to the Molek worship? Clearly, that is no longer a secret.

>>22119

Who knows. I find it increasingly curious that it does truly appear that either truly no mason has ever discussed the secrets, or that any that have have been effectively silenced.

Either it's a dull secret that's not worth the effort of leaking, as you allude, or it's so profound and worldbreaking that it's protected in dark and sinister ways.

I'm excited to find out.

>>22117
You and a bunch of theologians get together and decide "You know what is nice? God." and you're friend says, "But anon, there is more than one god." and you say "Who am I to say who is right and who is wrong? Lets make a club where we can talk about the shared values we have and organise raffles to raise money for meals on wheels."

And so an organisation was born. But, then people are like "DEVIL WORSHIPERS" because one lad was like "You're god is shit mine is better!" and they kicked him out on his arse for tipping the charity bucket. He was right miffed and got a van load of boyos round and burned it down.

You and your buds think "Hmm, we need to make sure people aren't mental if they want to join. We'll start interviewing people and only let other people like us come so that doesn't happen again" but your friend says "How will we know if they're like us?"

"Don't worry, I have an idea."

Boom, freemasonry.

>>22120
>Either it's a dull secret that's not worth the effort of leaking
Pretty much. It's mostly just ways to identify each other. The mysteries, however, are about self-improvement and silent contemplation. One of the promises a mason makes is to work towards being a better person, and that is what you have to do to progress and learn.

From that perspective, it makes sense that you get so much encouragement from within to do these things and why none of them talk about, because it's unique to them. Everyone's interpretation of the mysteries that are revealed to them is different too, which is why there is no unified theory of what freemasonry is and should be other than equality, self improvement and charity.

If you actually seriously want to know, anyone could easily, but what you learn may not be what other people think or feel about it.

>>22121

Still doesn't explain why a charity drive needs so much secrecy. Churches got burned down too but I don't see my local reverends sharing a secret nod.

You can admit it's just because it's cool. It's why I encrypt my hard drives. The most secretive document on my system is my CV, but it's still fun to play espionage and have a drive I can remotely scramble with a special key.

>>22123
Charity is big deal in freemasonry, as altruism is a choice and not a natural impulse we have towards strangers. However, the self is the root of all ritual and the things they teach make people nervous, especially the Church (who don't like masons) as their dogma states God can only be found through them. The secrecy is there to prevent cries of Charlatan and heretic and to prevent the uninitiated from learning what they teach.

It's more complicated than just doing it to be elaborate and cool, although you're right in suggesting it has that element as I happen to think it is pretty cool, it's about learning to be a free thinker first, then a leader. Leading the way forward for mankind. America was founded, by masons, on the idea that all men are born free and equal and have the right to practise their own personal religion freely without persecution. It didn't necessarily stay that way, but if anything that is just proof that Masons don't actually pull the strings.

Oh, hang on, lads, it's spelt "Moloch", my mistake.

>>22126

Oh Moloch! yeah, we worship the fuck out of him, obviously.

>>22126
The Baby Eating Bishop of Bath is my favourite swipe at the Church because it reminds me of Moloch. The Torah is full of really overt shade being fired at other religions and faiths and Chistianity ships it wholesale, Satan being chief among them. Many theologians think he is supposed to represent Moloch or Baal, based on his description and the fact Satan means adversary and he is Canaanite god in direct competition with Judaism. The fact the Canaanites are also widely thought to be the Ancient Greeks, makes it more interesting. There are many layers to peel away there.

Rabbis would never admit that, but a Jewish theologian who is also a mason would. Take from that what you will. Freemasonry is a lot like like Tolkien's mono-myth insofar as It has lectures on absolutely everything and anything theological (as opposed to etymological).

Masonry might be about charity and open to all religions at the lower levels but when you enter the Scottish rite it starts becoming a load of Christian Gnostic crap about what the 'true' name of god is and I know more secrets then you do bullshit.

>>22129
People fucking love a secret - have noticed this at work. I can see why people get sucked into it all.

>>22129
The Scottish rite isn't widely practised in the UK (The Grand Lodge of Scotland is the York rite, which is confusing to people; I know) or indeed the rest of the world. The majority of overseas lodges are chartered by the Grand lodge of Scotland or the Unified Grand Lodge of England (UGLE), mostly the latter, until they are able to form a Grand Lodge of their own, because everyone except the yanks know how they operate is underhanded. The yanks do seem to like it and you're right in that it's got lot of high ranking evangelical arseholes who regularly spit the dummy and suspend amity with each other. The GLoNY doesn't talk to the GLoSCO any more because one of their lodges in Lebanon took in masons that had been expelled for the GLoNY for petty, political reasons. This was 8 years ago, and they were becoming friends again when good old Lebanon, now an independent GL of the York rite, voted to promote the gents in question to a more senior position as they served with distinction, GLoNY lost the plot. There are several States who don't even talk to each other because the other has a gay member, it's bizarre and quite far removed from the grassroots freemasonry that exists in the UK and elsewhere.

It's a bit of a running joke among the wider masonic world that when one of the States do a visit abroad they take more 33rd degree masons with them than exist in that whole country, because they hand out degrees to whoever is willing to pay for them and not on merit. GLoSCO and the UGLE don't hold no truck with that nonsense. For Example, the GLoNZ follows the York rite and they have 5. The UK as a whole has 9 and how it works is when one dies, the brethren elect a new one. The only person I can conceivable say probably didn't earn their position is the Queens cousin, the Duke of Kent, based on voting records. He gets re-elected as Grand Master of the UGLE unanimously every single year and no one stands against him. He'll remain there till he stands down or dies, I reckon.

>>22131
You're my new favourite poster.

>>22132

_harumph

Reminder to self that I need to add the Freemasons' Hall in London to my list of "global centers of occult power to bump ket in" ticklist.

If any of you Manson Mason lads have anywhere to add (other than every fucking place that Crowley and Mathers lived I mean) then please feel free.

I feel another tour coming on. May 2018 be the new 2014! Much like The Equinox we shall only publish tour every four years.

IAO

>>22134
>Freemasons' Hall in London

It is genuinely a fucking amazing building. A company I worked at held an end-of-year offsite there - the inside is even better. The main hall where they do their thing is full of geometric shapes, tiled patterns on the floor and weird ceiling paintings, its a proper trip.

They also got the catering staff to wear these hooded cloaks, like tall Ewoks. It was a great party. If you can get inside and have a look, do - even from the outside on the street it looks really imposing.

>>22137

> ull of geometric shapes, tiled patterns on the floor and weird ceiling paintings, its a proper trip

maybe I should predose 300mg of mescaline before I bump 100m of K up each nostril in the bogs before tantricly ejaculating a into a pair of Pippa Middletond undercrackers snowdropped from when she used to run that middleton familly party planing business.

Either way.

>>22138
It is definitely that kind of place.

>>22139

I'm struggling to think of a place that wouldn't suit >>22138's style of recreation.

>>22140

To be fair Anne Frank house was a real fucking downer. I had to be dissuaded from reciting Churchill's "We'll fight them on the beaches" speech. I wanted to ask every Dutch cunt why they capitulated when we would have fought to every last man woman and child. I wanted to know why they felt like they had the right to make a fake museum to fake remorse for people the openly handed over because they were too afraid to die.

Tl;DR - don't go Anne Frank House on drugs or you might spend 10 hours crying and repeating over and over "We'll fight them on the landing fields and in the streets, but we will never surrender".

>>22141
I'm in Amsterdam (taking the whole family, might be a mistake) in a couple of weeks - will definitely do this.

>>22142

Honest advice from the above wreckhead whose mechanisms are fucked and receptors no longer work: go sober, if you go. I've not known anyone go sober and not break down crying at some point. That house holds some seriously negative energy. Don't be a clown and go with a head full of everything and start ranting and raving about how the Dutch were cunts for capitulating, that's how us Brits get bad reputations.

Also if you get get out before 3pm you can visit the Westerkerk next door , probably my favourite church in Amsterdam and offload/cry out your bad felings.

>>22143
> the Dutch were cunts for capitulating, that's how us Brits get bad reputations.

Oh I have been there tons of times and understand the politics quite well. The Rotterdam/Ajax football fans hissing at each other (to recall the gas chambers) has always blown me away in terms of sheer cruelty.

More concerned about how I will explain the "ladies in the windows" to my pre-teen boys. Already rehearsing that one.

I will make them visit the Anne Frank House though, that's a good call.

>>22143

Not the same but similar, standing in Dachau felt like a drug itself - it's very overwhelming to think about it all, especially when there's a crowd of equally sombre people standing there. I felt dizzy and dissociated the whole time.

I'd definitely have shaved my bonce and demanded stripey pajamas for 'the experience' if I'd dropped a dose that day.

>>22144

>More concerned about how I will explain the "ladies in the windows" to my pre-teen boys. Already rehearsing that one.

They're like living mannequins for sexy bras?

>>22146
older one, going to be straight about it: You can pay these ladies to be your girlfriend for an hour.

younger one: They just like dancing in the window for people.

>>22147

>older one, going to be straight about it: You can pay these ladies to be your girlfriend for an hour.

You're only going to have to re-explain in a couple of years that you actually pay them to be entirely unlike your girlfriend for an hour.

Really though, that's a fair plan.

>>22145
I felt a similar thing at the Hohenschonhausen prison in Berlin; the shit the East Germans did there was nothing short of horrifying.

>>22149
I have only been to Berlin once but I absolutely fucking loved the place. Tons of weird, spooky buildings and architecture. Spent a happy couple of days just walking everywhere.

Reminded me of some of the rougher bits of East London before the gentrification and the twats moved in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43385303

>Mr Rudland says: "We are using the teachings in freemasonry to make that individual a better person - going from a rough ashlar to a smooth ashlar.
"One of the basic tenets we have for freemasonry is taking good men and making them better."

I didn't know I was allowed to talk about that, but it's an interesting concept I've been lucky enough to watch a lecture about. An ashlar is the stone they use for the foundation stone of a new building, you represent the ashlar; rough and unshaped. You are then molded by your intender through your degrees in the pursuit of perfection. Perfection is an impossible goal, so smoothing down the rough sides is about change. Masons are expected to make small steps forward towards change every day, while first an foremost upholding their station without disgracing it.

As mentioned in that article also, masons who are police don't care if you're in the craft. You're expected to live within the law and if anything, they come down harder if you fuck up and try and weasel out. I'm a 3rd generation "Lewis" mason, and my Dad is not welcome back at his mother lodge because he is was a wife beater. The policeman who attended was a brother of the same lodge and he was horsed out as a result. He could attend other lodges assuming they didn't know who he was, but he'd be found out eventually.

This furthers the concept of the ashlar, as an imperfection in the stone is acceptable but anything which comprimises the structural integrity of the stone is a risk to the integrity of the building and cast aside. Masons serve as a foundation for the lodge, so he was expelled. Character flaws are largely supported, addiction or violence wont get you kicked on its own, for example, but spousal abuse, rape, murder, theft; all expelling offences.

>>22151
Interesting - why wasn't the Policeman involved allowed back to his same lodge though? I don't get that bit.

>>22152
Thr policeman who attended the 999 call was in my Dad’s lodge. Sorry.

>>22153
That is an interesting aspect of the story - we are led to believe that a secret handshake would have got him off.

I like the analogy about a rough stone though. Thats the first time I have heard about how all these rituals link back to the practice of, well, using masonry and building stuff out of stones.

>>22154
I sometimes wonder if freemasonry has the answer to the suicide epidemic among young males. They teach pretty useful values and life skills and ask nothing more than you apply them in your life and treat your brothers with respect, uniting men in fraternal kinship, something that is often lacking in young men's lives. It could be quite fulfilling for people who feel rudderless and the fact the organisation is non-religious and only requires belief in a higher power makes it open to most people, I'd think.

>>22155
Don't let the women know, they'll destroy it.

>>22155

How does one even join?

>>22156
You raise a good point actually. How come all these secret/not so secret societies are all dudes?

>>22159

My guess is that if there are secret female societies, they were out of politically necessity and thus didn't last as long. Do the suffragettes count? It's easier to afford the luxury of a self improvement society when you can already vote etc. And any attempt at a large, clandestine gathering of women for the past couple of centuries has likely been discouraged.

There's a facebook group of only women that post about dodgy/cheating blokes they meet on tinder. That's probably the modern equivalent, right?

>>22159

Oh, wait.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41804543

>>22157
If you know a Mason, they vouch for you. If you don't, you telephone/email the Grand Lodge and enquire and they'll tell you about open nights, which are fairly common, or give you your local lodge's contact details. They'll then get you in for a chat and you go from there.

>>22161
Wow - although their hall is a bit low rent compared to the place in Covent Garden.

>>22156
The Grand Lodge of the Eastern Star is mostly women and their ritual is beautiful, but they struggle to recruit young women. They themselves have reported that they can't find many young women who are willing to commit to the mindset of self improvement and charity and the ones they do get in are reluctant to take office, because they don't want the responsibility. What we know for certain is this a new phenomenon, as 30 years ago the GLoTES was thriving and young women were excited about taking office.

I have no idea what has happened in the last 30 years, societally speaking, to cause this shift in attitude, but I suspect it's the same thing causing men to off themselves in greater numbers than at any time in recorded history.

>>22164

>commit to the mindset of self improvement and charity

Because everyone already believes in those things, you big weirdo. It's like starting the "Society for the Advancement of Not Being Rude to Service Staff and Tolerating Kids on Public Transport", we don't need it because it's already a given.

>>22165
>Because everyone already believes in those things, you big weirdo.

I admire your post, because you sound like a good person, really. But most people don't believe in those things.

Call me a cynic.

>>22165
Altruism towards strangers is not a common trait among human beings. Charity isn't just about money either, as anyone can donate money for any number of reasons. Charity of the Heart is by far the most important part of what freemasonry espouses.

Let me give you a better example. Each lodge has an Almoner. His position involves, among other things, making sure all the elderly members and the widows of members who've died are looked after. That is the majority of what he does, every day, on top of his career, but he also liaises with other Almoners to ensure that if anyone moves into his jurisdiction he can look after them as well.

You think everyone already does what an Almoner does instinctively and not only does everyone do that, it's a given. A given that people should act like that. If that were true, then why does evil and neglect exist? More to the point, why do you think that people working towards a society where those things don't exist is weird?

>>22167
You're starting to fucking convince me lad.

Explain the breast/knee bit next. What's that all about?

And please, describe the handshake and what it means.

>>22168
I'm not going to describe the handshake, but it doesn't mean anything really. It's just a way to identify a brother mason.

What are you asking me when you want me to explain "breast/knee"?

>>22169
I thought there was some part of the initiation ritual where you had to bare a breast and show your knee - the BBC article about the women lodge earlier in the thread refers to it and its fairly common knowledge.

Interesting that you won't describe the handshake - do you always use it when you meet people?

>>22170
>do you always use it when you meet people?
Yes. I guarantee you've been given that handshake in the past and because of how our brains work you probably tried to mirror his actions resulting in a weird handshake. Also, any one who shakes your hand and calls you brother is probably a mason unless they actually are your brother, but perhaps even then.

>bare a breast and show your knee
Yeah, OK. The knee part is symbolic, but it's part of the ritual so I can't explain it, but the breast thing is to make sure you don't have tits as women are excluded from UGLE and GLoSCO lodges. It does have another reason, but that's also part of the ritual so I can't explain it.

>>22171
Do you have to be such a fucking tease?

>>22172
Sorry, lad. It's just the way it is.

>>22171
I call people brother all the time though.

>>22173

I think that's how they draw us in. It's marketing. We'd not give a shit if you could just walk right in.

>>22175
Hence, "probably".

I just don't understand why an organisation supposedly dedicated to helping old biddies get their shopping home and generally doing their best Mr Chips impression needs to keep so many God damned secrets. Why do you need a handshake? Why not just say "I am a Mason too, which lodge do you molest children practice lying act benevolent at?" Sure, they could lie to you, but if someone starts talking about a show or a film they haven't actually seen you'd know, wouldn't you? That goes for Masonic gatherings too, I'd imagine. And even if they did who cares because you don't do anything worth lying about, nor can you benefit other Masons in the real world, right? RIGHT? Not a lick of this makes any damn sense, it's completely circular. And if you're so worried about people not trusting you, why don't you just tell them this crap? Is it a chaos magic thing, where you just pretend you have some kind of magical aura and that makes it true in a psychological sense? Or are the Duke of Kent and that "nice Scottish chap" actually 12ft tall reptiles!? And why aren't there dozens of former Masons telling me this shit!? WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THAT FUCKING LODGE!?

The next people I see doing a handshake that's not as vanilla as it comes are getting kegged.

>>22178
>WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THAT FUCKING LODGE!?
No two freemasons will give you the same answer.

>>22164
I would bare my breast to her and let her stab me, IYKWIM.

>>22179

All the suspenders in the world won't save you.

>>22178
>I just don't understand why an organisation supposedly dedicated to helping old biddies get their shopping home and generally doing their best Mr Chips impression

This seems to be your problem. You've already made up your mind its completely pointless, so the retina of your mind contracts when given reasons as to why it isn't.

>>22182

I'm not saying it's pointless, Mr Chips was a good man, I'm saying it's too incredibly mundane to require any kind of secrecy. It's like if you started volunteering at a food bank and after a couple of days there you got asked to have a bar code tatooed on the back of your neck. I mean, nothing bad is happening, and it's a harmless experience, but why!?

>>22183
You can walk away from the Masons at any time unbranded, so your hyperbole is a tad histrionic all things considered.

The secrecy element has been explained several times, it's to stop people who they haven't vetted from learning what they don't want outsiders to know. It's as simple as that. If you want to know that badly why not just join and if you don't like it, leave. No one is going to try and kill you for leaving, they'd even take you back if you decided later you wanted to return.

Are you autistic? I've noticed a few people I've supported through work and elsewhere who've had autism get really worked up about secrets.

>>22184

>The secrecy element has been explained several times, it's to stop people who they haven't vetted from learning what they don't want outsiders to know.

That's not an explanation, you berk. The Army would keep a secret to stop a mission from being jeopardised, F1 teams keep secrets to maintain an edge over the opposition, the Mason's keep secrets to keep secrets. The idea of keeping a secret is fine, but if there's no reason to be keeping a secret, then what's the point?

>so your hyperbole is a tad histrionic all things considered.
>Are you autistic? I've noticed a few people I've supported through work and elsewhere who've had autism get really worked up about secrets.

It's almost as though I was being knowingly over the top when I accused your leaders of being David Ike's worst nightmare and threatened to pull people's trousers down if I saw them doing a handshake a bit funny.

All this time this website has been a secret recruitment ground for the masons.

>>22186
Well evidently the Masons take themselves very seriously.

>>22185
So, yes? I'm trying to to understand.

>>22186
Of all the weird groups that have come here trying to recruit people, the masons are probably okay.

>>22189
People tend to understand a recruitment drive when people are trying to sell themselves, even if they don't agree with what they're peddling, but the Masons don't actively recruit and wont tell you what it involves beyond "smoothing down the rough" and I think it freaks people out because it makes them wonder "Why doesn't this cult want me? Cults love me!".

It's like when they make young Gallifreyans stare into the Time Vortex and sometimes it drives them mad, but sometimes it creates great leaders.

>>22190
>It's like when they make young Gallifreyans stare into the Time Vortex and sometimes it drives them mad, but sometimes it creates great leaders.

Wankers.

So what's the difference between the masons and, say, joining a rotary club or roundtable group?

>>22192
Have a read of the thread m8.

>>22193
They're more or less the same thing but with poncey outfits and secret handshakes?

>>22194
One organisation focuses on raising up men, young and old, by giving their lives purpose through allegorical teachings based on the values and skills stonemasons taught their apprentices, which just so happen to be steeped in mysticism and not open to outsiders.

The Rotary Club is a hobbyist social club where you can network, meet people and get contacts to try and improve your career.

They are both great organisations (which have a lot of crossover) who spend a great deal of time being charitable and people join one or the other or both, depending on what they need or want from life. If you have to ask "Why should I join?" or "What's in it for me?" don't join. People seek out freemasonry of their own free will, in fact it requires that you be uninfluenced by the bias of friends and that you hold no mercenary motives; you need to want to be there. Not everyone does. Based on the information on this thread, you should be able to make up your mind if it sounds like something worth taking part in.

>>22195

>we don't want you if you're not a nepotist wanker

Pretty much.

Burn the lot of them.

>>22195

If the freemasons are so honourable, then why are they so secretive?

>>22197
Because the plebs just don't understand.

>>22197
Because we worship the devil, obviously.

>>22197
Because it's really just about middle-aged blokes getting together for some secret bumming sessions.

>>22200
You get used to the bummings, but you never get used to everyone watching in stoic silence.

Did any of you catch the telly show? The mad lads from Lebanon who caused an international feud were on it.

>>22201
>You get used to the bummings, but you never get used to everyone watching in stoic silence.

We're back to the whole Eyes Wide Shut vibe again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmCnQDUSO4I

How many freemasons are paedophiles? I've noticed freemasonic lodges like getting involved with children's charities.

Also, why have freemasonic scientists lied about the shape of the earth?

>>22203

It's a secret.

>>22203
What is the "true" shape of the Earth, lad, so I know whether or not I need to put my laughing girdle on so I don't give myself a hernia.

>>22205

Oblate spheroid. Wake up, sheeple.

Hello Masonlad/brother, this is an interesting thread so cheers.

It does feel a bit like an effort to recruit some weirdos from this internet shed, but fair fucks like. Out of curiosity how are the numbers in regards young men joining? You mentioned that the female lodges are having trouble getting younger members, is it the same with the male lodges?

Also what would the consequences be were you to "reveal" the secrets of your organisation? Would it involve bricks in pockets and ropes around necks?

Also also, do you not think there's an inherent danger of nepotism with this sort of "society"? You've talked about human nature not being inclined toward kindness to strangers (which I'd personally disagree with but whatever), so if you're that cynical about people then surely it's almost an impossibility to have this sort of organisation without it inevitably leading to corruption/nepotism etc etc.

Final question but I assume there are quite a lot of fees and expenses involved, would that not inevitably preclude a large majority of the population (us plebs) from even being able to join anyway? Seems like it would be a bit of a barrier to entry.

Anyway, as I say interesting thread so thanks for that.

>>22207
Young lads do join, the children of Masons tend not to for whatever reason. At least, not until they are older. That is a recent phenomenon, I suspect it's just because teenagers don't give a shit about their Dad's hobby. In recent years, a lot of late 20s early 30s lads have joined and they all have similar stories about feeling rudderless and having shit using friends.

Revealing Stonemason secrets was punishable by death, as that was their trade and livelihood and was enforced by The Crown, nowadays you'd be barred from the freemasons and barred from membership of practically every similar organisation, like Rotary clubs, etc. It's called wilful perjury and it makes you an outcast to the point where people will pretend you don't exist.

Whether you disagree with me or not is irrelevant, as it's a basic part of animal psychology. Something I've studied extensively. Familial altruism is common and indeed imperative to the survival of your genes, but that's selevtive altruism. Pure altruism is very much a conscious decision. Nepotism isn't an issue because we get taught to be fair in all our dealings and actions and by seeking out freemasonry you've chosen before even entering the craft to live your life the way they require you to. Nepotism is inherently unfair, so it's not the done thing. If a friend got you an interview at their workplace they've done it because they are your friend, not because you're a brother; in fact and it would be in spite of that. Their is a lot of myths about it, but they stem from the fact a mason can identify another mason without anyone else knowing what has happened.

There aren't a lot of fees in the GLSCO. The GL sets the fees for new members and the yearly "sub". When you join you pay a token, it's an element of ritual and the "fee" can't be disclosedfor this reason. The Sub is about £32 a year, and lodges provide catering for free at every single meeting and if you need a lift, brothers all take turns carpooling so they can drink so you'll always have a way to get there. The lodge provides you regalia on the night depending on your station. You're not required to buy it yourself if you can't afford it. You're required to wear a shirt and a tie, but I don't imagine that being a barrier for most people. Also, freemasonry is overwhelmingly working class.

The brotherhood of freemasonry is about teaching morals and values that the stonemasons taught their apprentices and studying the allegory and mystery behind the stonemason's philosophies on life, it's not going to be for everyone but the people who get involved get a lot out of it, make friends and get pissed into the bargain. I've learned more about geometry since I joined than I learned in high school, too. Like the vertex of a circle, there is a teaching which centres around this and it's fascinating. There are lectures on everything, as masons are encouraged to patron the liberal arts. A lot of my favourite inventions, like the Steam Train, were not only invented by a mason but were funded through lodge help. The Royal Society in Edinburgh was chartered by The Crown at the request of the Grand Lodge. So much of what makes us British is intrinsically linked with freemasonry. I digress, but I have enjoyed talking about it a bit and clearing up any misconceptions people might have had. If anyone is considering joining, go to the r/freemasonry subreddit as a jumping off point. I met a nice ex squaddie lad on there who is joining in England and we had a decent chat, but if you still think it's weird then that's fine. It is a bit weird, I'm not ignorant to that.

>>22208
>feeling rudderless and having shit using friends

I can see what you mean, in an era where nobody has any real friends (or they are measured by Likes) this would seem to offer genuine friendship, albeit in a weird structure.

>a mason can identify another mason without anyone else knowing what has happened

This is the bit that is concerning and I realise you aren't going to tell us how or why you can do that - apart from the handshake, which you've told us about, are there other ways?

>>22209
Yes, there is as many as can be readily identified. They can be pretty inventive, too. A lad at a friends wedding asked me if I wanted a pint and I knew he was a mason by the way he positioned himself when he asked, I laughed and we got chatting and after a handshake and about 30 secs of back and forth, we knew each others lodge and rank. I called him a fly bastard and have used the same sign ever since because it was immensely clever.

>>22210
>by the way he positioned himself when he asked

Okay now I'm really fucking curious. You bastard.

>>22211

I'm starting to think you've been targeted.

>>22212
I think this might be Cambridge Analytica's last hurrah.

>>22213

If you start selling my personality profile to the Russians I'll not be very pleased at all.

>>22214
Oh you know me much better than that ladm8. If it was worth anything, I would have already done it.

>>22215

I don't know if I'm insulted or relived.

Lovely choice of motor, though. I think about these things all the time, the sorts of cars that cost more to keep than they do to buy. The thought of running one scares the shite out of me. Imagine scratching the paint even. I'm not sure it'd suit me, I don't think I have the brass neck to cruise about in one. I'm working on it mind.

I've got it in my head that I want a GT-R after having a go in one at a track day. Cost aside though I don't dare drive anything that can make it over 70mph until my points expire.

>>22217
>GT-R

That's my other favourite car. I reckon a Nissan would be a lot cheaper to service and live with than a 458. Completely agree with you on the brass neck bit. Would keep it in the garage and just quietly wank over lick it clean every Sunday.

>>22218

>I reckon a Nissan would be a lot cheaper to service and live with than a 458

Definitely, from what I've heard. It's a car I could realistically own too, especially second hand. Once the licence is clean again, anyway. They just drive so beautifully. It might be an odd comparison but I've not had so much fun in a corner since the MX-5. And they get 25 miles to the gallon.

>Would keep it in the garage and just quietly wank over lick it clean every Sunday.

This is what I've never understood. I absolutely understand having a car collection but I really couldn't bear owning something too precious to drive. I'd rather have something fun and interesting than something I'm scared to drive or you'd get mobbed every time you went out in.

I have a friend with a Gallardo and it's very stressful being out for a spin in that thing. Aside from the fact that turning a banked corner too quickly might cost you ten grand in repairs, every fucker stares at you, takes pictures of you, wants to talk to you. It's not something I enjoy. I suppose those are all positive reasons for Lambo owners.

I feel like you'd be under many people's radars with a GT-R - you'd only get accosted by like minded gearhead types.

>>22219

Also it's probably common knowledge but I didn't know the GTR's display will show you your fucking G-force when you turn. What more could you possibly want?

>>22219
Funny you should mention the Gallardo. I don't have anything like the cash to buy one of these, or much else on there, but have spent more time than I should on this site recently.

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/91658/lamborghini-gallardo-gt3-fl2-2014

>>22220
And "Launch Mode" - I want that.

>>22221

There's something I really love about the idea of having an ex racer as well. I've always liked Caterhams and Atoms and such - though at that point I might as well just get a bike. I think part of my retirement will involve a camper van and a track car on a trailer. When I had an RX8 I met a load of mad old bastards who were doing exactly that.

>"Launch Mode" - I want that.

Oh fuck yes. I had forgotten about that. I'd definitely get into trouble in one of those things.

That site is dangerous, mind, what are you doing to me?! I can't think of a worse financial investment than a race car but that Lotus...

>>22223
If only hairdressing paid better.

Is this a freemasonic handshake?

>>22226
Looks exactly like it, I doubt masonlad will confirm though.

Do you actually get to practice the handshake at these meetings? Does it take a long time to learn?

My grandfather was a member of RAOB (known as the Buffs). Went every Sunday and loved it - spoke of many of the same benefits that you have spoken about. He had some of this kind of regalia that the Masons wear and it seemed sort of similar, only more public.

What's your understanding of the Buffs masonman? Are they like your lot in disguise (or perhaps the other way round). They were all much more open about it than you seem to be.

>>22227

>Does it take a long time to learn?

I bet it's simple but takes a load of practice to overcome your muscle memory. I handshake entirely subconsciously at this point, I don't even realise I'm sticking my hand out sometimes.

Well consider me curious, masonlad. I was a Boy Scout, then a cadet so I've always had a thing for fraternal clubs.

Unfortunately whilst I see the appeal, I just don't think I could persistently lie and claim to believe in a Higher Power™, especially in a group dedicated to honour and self-improvement it would be a pretty fundamental flaw.

I'm curious about the third degree particularly, I know you won't give much away but what can you say about "dying and being born anew"?

>>22230
>I'm curious about the third degree particularly, I know you won't give much away but what can you say about "dying and being born anew"?
All you need to know is it involves bumming. Lots of bumming.

>>22226
It's entirely possible.

>>22228
The RAOB are an offshot of freemasonry, follow all the same principles and tenents minus the allegory and mysticism, but I think instead you swear fealty to the monarch and not a higher power. Religious talk is very much banned, as far as I'm aware. Much like politics is in Freemasonry.

>>22230
I was in the scouts as well, it's essentially a freemasonic training camp with less bummings. The 3rd degree is what everyone wants to know about, but I can safely say that I and most of my brothers would agree the 1st is by far the best. If you consider the things I've mentioned in this thread about making men better, raising them up and giving their life purpose then its symbolism isn't difficult to guess at and that ritual in particular is the reason people tend not to want to perjure themselves afterwards as you become aware of the sacrifices your forebearers made to keep the secrets of the craft and why to be taught them is a privilege.

The higher power you believe in could literally be the concept of disappointment. As long as you believe in something. There are lads who go through who swear their oath to the Great Mathematician or the Grand Geometrician of the Universe. "God" is just shorthand in that context.

>>22232

Is this a freemasonic handshake?

>>22233
I'll put you out of your misery, lad. If you can see the handshake, it's not masonic. Masons cover their hands. Not all hand shakes are masonic, but all masonic grips are handshakes, etc.

>>22234
>If you can see the handshake, it's not masonic. Masons cover their hands.
Is that so other people can't see them feeling you up?

>>22234

But in the documentary referenced in the OP, the masons didn't cover their hands when handshaking.

>>22236
They knew they were being filmed, so did that to throw you off the scent.

>>22235
Pretty much. Again, all masons cover their hands but not all people who cover their hands are masons.

Freemasonry was once so prevalent in our society we have lots of quirks which stem directly from it, but aren't necessarily directly correlated to membership any more. For example, "Getting the 3rd degree" is not a reference to being burned or "squaring up" someone you owe a favour/money to or the quintessential Scottishism "Square go" as in fair fight.

>>22236
You don't need to use a masonic handshake in a lodge full of vouched for masons. It's redundant.

>>22237
>>22238
>>22239

Not buying it, seen far too many masonic looking handshakes that weren't covered up. Perhaps masons in high ranking positions just don't give a shit.

>>22240
>Not buying it, seen far too many masonic looking handshakes that weren't covered up.
Thanks, professor. I look forward to your next paper.

>freemasonry is overly secretive
>members are using the handshake openly despite explicitly being forbidden from doing so
Only one of these can be true, lad.

>>22242
>Only one of these can be true, lad.
If it's truly secret, then it can be hidden in plain sight.

Masonlad, what percentage of chaps who show interested or come to the open day or whatever end up as Brothers? Do you see a lot of people come in, look about and say 'no thanks', or are they more often than not captivated by the whole experience?

I can imagine a lot are underwhelmed when (if) they find out it's not the illuminati or a bummers cult, but it'd be equally telling if the majority that do get a sense of it end up staying.

I've been looking at local (newcastle if it matters) lodges and I must say it definitely seems to be majority older chaps, despite them advertising a student lodge based in both universities.

Do you have Sky at the lodge? I'd like to start getting back into F1.

>>22245
Ace Player isn't gonna bum you during initia[liza]tion.

>>22244
Anyone the Lodge likes and is invited to continue usually does. I've seen people defer advancement because of work commitments and stuff, but they still make the time. What does happen is lads will do the 3 degrees, attend for a year and lapse for a while. There is a lot to learn (not even taking into account what is available for you to do off your own back), lots of people to meet and I think the pressure burns some people out as it can be a bit overwhelming. If they survive the first year, they stick at it though. Once you are familiar with protocol and once you know names and faces and they know yours, you can turn up at any lodge in your province and know someone or meet someone who either knows you or knows of you.

>>22245

We don't, but some do. Lodges with licensed bars are open to the public as well, so be aware there is always a chance it might be the haunt of a nest of harpies who live on a diet of prosecco and the morning after pill. There isn't a single lodge in Scotland that doesn't have a bar, but England may be different.

>>22247
>There isn't a single lodge in Scotland that doesn't have a bar
Where do I sign up? Also where in Scotland isn't shit or in the middle of nowhere?

>>22249
This. "Initialise" is Latin, not Greek, so it needs an "s".

>>22248
Well, the places that are shit tend to be urban and the places that are good tend be more rural with good train links and motorway access. I think Falkirk and Stirling are the sweet spot. They have lots to do, lots to see and lots to explore and are both a 30 min train journey from Glasgow. Falkirk was also voted 2nd on the best places to live in Scotland, just below Inverness.

>>22250

Whatever, I left the "u" out of fucking so I'm getting my dunce cap and shutting up.

>>22251
Stirling is fucking steep and Falkirk High (the good station) looks a bit far out of town.

>>22245
This might be the funniest post in the thread.

(Also, if they do have F1, I too, am IN.)

>>22253
Why are you scared of a 10 minute walk and a hill with no shops on it?

>>22255
Because I'll get killed on the 10 minute walk, and the shops being at the bottom means having to walk the shopping back up. Is there not a vaguely respectable part of Glasgow somewhere? I hear that hipsters are starting to displace the neds from the West End.

There are lots of nice places to live in Glasgow, but it can vary from street to street and building to building, because it's a city and cities are melting pots.

In contrast, I live on the outskirts of Stirling and everyone in my street is either elderly or have young families (there was one lad who was dealing charlie, but the prat bought a Rolls and got caught). I'm on first name terms with many of them, I know my postman and my window cleaner drinks in my pub and accepts pints in lieu of payment. I even get an ice cream van in the Summer, which is a novelty that will never wear off. In Glasgow, ice cream vans sell drugs and sharpened tooth brush handles and MAYBE Irn Bru, but while you were out there buying ket the window cleaner has fucked your Spaniel.

So, you need to ask yourself, what you want from a community?

>>22257
> In Glasgow, ice cream vans sell drugs and sharpened tooth brush handles and MAYBE Irn Bru, but while you were out there buying ket the window cleaner has fucked your Spaniel.

Very well written. It's one of the few areas of the country I have never visited - I'm working class and from as South as you can be. Will they beat me up?

>>22258

I'm not him but how working class, exactly? I do believe that if you were brought up in the ghetto (or as ghetto as you can get in england anyway) then you'll retain, for life, the ability to walk down a dodgy street without looking like a victim.

I can't quantify it, but without trying (indeed while trying the opposite) I manage to attract and relate to people who grew up in a similar way as I did. It means I can wander about the darkest alleys and will usually just get a universal badman nod or an offer of drugs. If you didn't really have to traverse the weird council estate way of living as a child, you'll probably look out of place.

TL;DR if ya grew up on da streets, da streets is your home.

>>22259
Oh definitely get that idea - usually when I am in the US, I walk everywhere, have never had any hassle and I'll frequently get from colleagues YOU WENT WHERE??? HOW ARE YOU STILL ALIVE.

Maybe I should visit Glasgow.

>>22260

>YOU WENT WHERE??? HOW ARE YOU STILL ALIVE.

Yep, that's the one. I didn't realise it was a thing until I ended up in uni and became known as the lad in halls that wouldn't seem to get fleeced by the scary northern dealers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks_D2drIs6E

I'm way too fucking deep at this point.

>>22262
Strippers are always a bit naff though - particularly when they have all their clothes on, like whats the point.

Masonlad, is this a normal thing?

>>22263

>Strippers are always a bit naff though

True. That makes it even more sinister. If this is the reason they're so secretive I'll be disappointed. At least have a proper orgy. They hopefully at least sacrificed her to moloch.

>>22262
That looks awkward, it made me laugh though. Masonic halls tend to have top tier lighting equipment for rituals and would have no problem making this look quite sexy, but this doesn't look sexy at all because the fucking megalomaniacs in the chairs can't sit at the front even though they aren't in open lodge.

Weird I spotted this before dosing off, now I'm wondering if the guys always do that? Like, even if they hire a band they just sit behind the band like fucking spooky bastards rather than sit with their lodge.

>>22265
Looks like it was filmed a long time ago - also, looks like it was filmed in NTSC so probably Americans.