My parents have been together for almost forty years now. My dad has retired and my mum could easily afford to as well but she's planning on working part-time for as long as she is able to because she knows otherwise she'd probably end up killing him. She's a member of a few groups, like a rambling club, that get her out of the house so I guess one of the key things for a long-term relationship is not to lose sight of being your own person and spending time apart pursuing your own interests and hobbies. I think lockdown is going a bit better than she expected, though.

Great thread. Probably not a helpful contribution, but this is massively down to individual experience. I find it hard to generalise across people.

Speaking for myself, I can say I'm definitely leading a fuller life than I was when I was single, but I've had to develop a very clear set of expectations from the relationship. Getting close to someone won't necessarily bring you meaning or purpose, but it may enrich the other goals you have. It probably won't bring you material security, but pitching in with a willing partner might help. It won't consolidate your position in some social hierarchy or make you feel like you fit in society, but it might make you more confident and like you have more of an investment in living well. It probably won't heal all your past psychological wounds, but sharing life with someone may ease the burden. You see the pattern I'm getting at.

Right now I'm with someone, it's coming up to a year together. I admire her a lot and while she does occasionally get on my nerves, there's a tremendous amount of affection and I find her really attractive. I'm making an effort to be patient. Rather than feeling frustrated or betrayed when she doesn't meet what I want, I'm just trying to appreciate what she is and what she brings to my life. I get the sense that she's doing the same. It may develop into more, maybe not, but we are very much individuals who can work out if it's all worthwhile. And right now it feels very good.

There's also another interesting aspect to what you're saying. Not to flatter myself, but I feel like my current girlfriend and I are on equal terms in the sense of how bold and social we are, and in general "attractiveness" or ability to find people to date. It's not as though we'd have no options if we broke up, but we're both independent enough and happy by ourselves that we're not keeping back-burner partners (at least I can say that for myself, and I would find it more sad than anything for her if she felt the need to do that).

Sorry if this post comes off as gloating as I know we do have some lads here who really struggle with this and the dating scene in general, which I agree is a destruction derby if you don't navigate it extremely carefully and in conjunction with a lot of other efforts.

>>436810
I'm not sure. I observe that a lot of people "settle" and put up with who/what they've got at a certain point.

I have been with my partner for twenty years - life has thrown a few things at us like everyone, but we're a very strong unit, particularly with regard to how we parent. I am very happy in that relationship. Like >>436811 we have found that lockdown has gone absolutely fine, because we get on so well - I dread to think what less stable home life looks like at the moment and feel for the many in that situation.

I've always seemed to effortlessly end up in new relationships, not to brag or anything, but I just seem to have something that makes it easy to slip into a new partnership relatively quickly. I've not stayed single for longer than about six months over the last decade. But with that said, I've yet to experience the complete all encompassing love some people seem to. With the exception of perhaps my first girlfriend, who I adored, betrayed me, and probably ultimately is responsible for the fact I haven't felt anything nearly as strong since. But that's a different conversation.

Yes, frankly, I think a lot of people settle. I've been told that I'm callous in the way I'll cut off a relationship that seems to be getting boring or reaching a dead end, but I don't see it that way. I see it as being honest and doing the right thing for the other person, allowing them to find someone more suitable instead of someone who's fed up of them after only a year or two. But I have many friends who have ended up marrying the same person they started dating when they were 21, and I've been there to witness all the ups and downs, all the bitching and moaning and griping about how they can't shag someone fitter and so on. Maybe I'm just hard to please, maybe it's just that I've got more patience and tolerance for the dating game than my mates, but they seem to have been content to just say "Yeah, fuck it, she'll do", rather like walking into a clothes shop and just buying the first jeans in your size, instead of spending more time looking for some really nice ones.

That said I'm in a relationship at the moment that really might last. It's the first time I've been with someone who is quite genuinely the same as me. I've always been that nerd who somehow has a normal partner, and I've always thought of it as balancing me out to have a partner who pushes me to do more "normal people" things instead of sitting there on Total War all day, but in reality I think it's always been a source of conflict. Now I've got a girlfriend who sits at the desk next to me playing CRPGs until 3 in the morning, who never asks me to watch I'm A Celebrity with her or whatever, and that's much more harmonious.

She's also got a literal porno cunt, so there's that too.

>>436813

>we have found that lockdown has gone absolutely fine, because we get on so well - I dread to think what less stable home life looks like at the moment and feel for the many in that situation

I think a relationship is always relatively easy to maintain and keep up when things are going well and there are no obstacles to overcome that put your relationship to the test. My cousin's wife is a lawyer who specialises in family and divorce law, and she told me once that autumn is always a busy time in that field, because people come home from their summer holidays, during which they came to the realisation that they can no longer fucking stand to be with their spouse. And apparently a second peak is after Christmas in the new year.

If your relationship lasts through summer holidays and the odd global pandemic lockdown now and then, then it says a lot about how well you are matched. Even moving in together can be less of a test for a relationship than having to spend two weeks together almost 24/7 with nowhere else to go. Because you normally have jobs and careers to get up for in the morning and which mean that you effectively only spend around twelve hours of a weekday together, if that.

>>436810

>Are most people in a relationship happy?
I hope so.

>Do people stay in an unhappy relationship because they find it preferable to being alone or they find the breakup itself too much hassle; you have to unwind yourself financially from someone, you may be accustomed to the lifestyle supported by two incomes, there may be kids involved, you may feel there's social stigma involved in a failed relationship or you simply lack the balls to do initiate it. Do a lot of people just settle?

I've certainly know the sort who will seem to actively refuse to leave a relationship even when the writings on the wall and everyone involved was fucking miserable. It seemed to be a combination of the fear of being alone, faith in the institution, and a weird pretention of "oh no I'm not one of those people who dates around", it got to the point of physical violence before they actually broke up years after it was obvious they were unhappy. Frankly I think they would have never ripped that bandage off otherwise so it needed to come to blows for it to end, their egos-story simply wouldn't allow it otherwise.

Conversely my last partner who the similarities are so numerous I can't even begin to list them off, decided after 3 years of living together, that they dislike the idea of living with another human being and that the relationship would only continue if I moved out, and having a relationship with that lack of intimacy is such an absurd step back to me, it might as well not be a relationship. When I dug down what they envisioned was me to be round theirs all the time like before but with the expectation of control that they weren't sharing anything, and obviously all at an additional inconvenience to me maintaining another flat. joke on them, as I was moving out corvid hit so now we are [b]both[//b]not in a relationship and living together.

There has to be some sweet spot of human intimacy between the extremes of the examples above of the person who cares about the relationship so badly they will drive themselves to insanity for it, and the person who is incapable of opening up and sharing their life. I feel like I am saying something normal people would assume is so obvious other people wouldn't think it was a possibility that people would fall into those traps but there you are.


What is the running theme in both of these examples is that I don't think these people actually cared about the other person enough to think about what was best for them. I believe relationships require a surrendering of the self, but not to the idea of the relationship, but to the happiness of both parties. I think this is why people get so angry or upset when they are cheated on, because it isn't just a transaction, it is an opening up of the soul to someone else they have put in labour far beyond what anyone could as of them normally. And yet that doesn't seem to be understood by some, they are ‘relationship zombies’ in the ‘philosophical zombies’ sense, these are just the conventions they have learned you do, they don’t have the underlying reasons that are supposed to drive them, I don't think everyone people start that way but some slip into it. Whereas others that is all they know, and I suppose who am I to be critical of these people if they find each other?

Reflecting on it, I could very well have continued in that relationship above but it would have never been what I feel a relationship should be, I would be surrendering my life to being one of those zombies.

>>436817
>I've certainly know the sort who will seem to actively refuse to leave a relationship even when the writings on the wall and everyone involved was fucking miserable

I have a friend who doesn't like breaking up with people because she doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy and make someone else miserable. In a similar vein she has led so many lads on over the years because she doesn't want to hurt their feelings by telling them she is not interested.

Every single time she has ended a relationship it has been to leave a lad for someone else. She cannot be alone. The existing relationship is already dead and buried in her head but she will carry it on until someone else is lined up and the poor lad doesn't have a clue anything is wrong until she ups and leaves one day seemingly out of the blue.

Wherever you go, there you are. Happy people generally have happy relationships; miserable people generally have miserable relationships. A lot of people think that a relationship will save them from themselves, but it doesn't work like that. However much time you spend with your partner, you've got to live with yourself 24/7.

>>436818
>Every single time she has ended a relationship it has been to leave a lad for someone else. She cannot be alone. The existing relationship is already dead and buried in her head but she will carry it on until someone else is lined up and the poor lad doesn't have a clue anything is wrong until she ups and leaves one day seemingly out of the blue.

Every single woman is like this. Literally 100% of them.

>>436820
By the way I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with it. But it's about as insightful as saying "I have a female friend who has two fatty lumps on her chest" or "I have a female friend who prefers to keep her hair a little bit longer than most men tend to". It's just life. Call me sexist, I don't give a fuck.

>>436821

I don't think it is all women, or even most women. But there definitely is prevalent enough for it to be an understood cliche that most people have encountered it in their lives.

>By the way I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with it.

I don't see why, it is the shitty behaviour of a coward at best, and the transactional process of a sociopath at worst.

If you are going to piss and moan about it actually take a stand against it.

It wasn't a sexist thing to say you don't like bad behaviour until you decided that it was all women who do it. The judging of the behaviour isnt sexist the generalisation as if women are incapable of any different is.

>>436822
Sorry mate but I don't agree. I don't think I can know that it's cowardly or sociopathic because I was born into a world that automatically takes me seriously and cares about what I have to say. Would I feel the same if I was born into a world where nobody gave a fuck about me and everyone instinctively wanted to make excuses for me being murdered by partner? Maybe. Maybe not.

I don't wear make-up. I can't imagine wearing make-up. But can I say I wouldn't wear make-up if I was a woman? If everyone that I had ever met just expected me to make my face pretty for them, everywhere I went, forever? The only honest answer is: I don't know.

>>436823

You didn't even assimilate my post you just went into a conditioned reply about "who am I to pass judgement?", this statement tells me 2 things the first is that you are happy to live your life as a spectator never getting involved, and the second that you purposefully and deliberately hold women to a lower standard than you hold men.

>world that automatically takes me seriously and cares about what I have to say

You condescending prick. You know perfectly well no one automatically gives a shit about what a man has to say, homelessness and suicide wouldn't be so much more absurdly higher in men if that was true. I didn't quite understand how you could square the circle, and then I realised this is all projection, you treat women with contempt that's why you both can make sweeping statements about their behaviour, and such transparent pandering, because you think they are all too stupid to to see your insincerity.

You can make a little speech about how tough it is to be a woman in a man's world and you are off the hook. fishing isn't about being nice to women, it is about treating them like nuanced human beings. What you are doing in your over politeness whilst loathing them is chauvinism.

>>436820
I've heard this phenomenon described as 'monkey-branching'. I don't know if that's a real thing or if my recently-divorced friend was just improvising.

>>436824

This. It's classic nice guy shit he's spouting.

>>436824
I'm probably more adept at climbing a tree than somebody like you with this MRA bullshit granddad. Sorry I took you seriously enough to reply.

>>436827

How fucking mental do you need to be to think that telling you not to condescend to women is MRA?

>>436825
I've Googled it and it's apparently a thing.

I don't know why people are pretending men don't do it. My boss was unhappy with his wife for years and eventually left her for one of the admin lasses he was shagging. He's a giant manchild and I really offended him once by suggesting that people should live on their own for a few years to develop personally and gain independence rather than only leaving their parents' house; some men want to be perpetually mothered.

>>436831

I think by and large it's still more women than men who will stay in a shit relationship and keep putting up with it while there are no alternatives.

I've been on both ends of it, and by contrast, the times I actually actively ended a relationship myself really were because there were things I just wasn't going to take any longer, and I felt that I was better off alone than spend another day with that person. Even the temporary misery of singlehood was a better prospect.

One reason why it often hits guys seemingly without warning when their girlfriend breaks up and leaves them for another lad is that men aren't generally good at reading nonverbal cues and all the subtleties that women give off. On the other hand, it is a skill that you can learn unless you're too far down the 'spectrum. Women may be complex and sometimes fickle creatures, but the telltale signs tend to always be the same. And women invariably give off those signals when they are unhappy in a relationship. You can count on that.

Then again, understanding women's cues doesn't make it easier. One or two times, I knew the relationship was in trouble, and I understood the signs that she was giving off, and I knew that they meant I was eventually going to be in for a rough landing. And there comes a point when it's not anymore just a matter of changing some of your ways to make her change her mind about maybe, maybe not leaving you. The reasons why she hates you will lie in the past and cannot be undone just by starting to ask her every night how her day was. You try to ignore it, and think of something else whenever you can, but then it hits you again that somebody is unstoppably slipping away. I guess ignorance is bliss.

>>436837

I'm pretty sure most lads do see the signs, if they're honest with themselves. It really isn't something that requires psychic empath skills, you can always tell when the paint is starting to chip. I think most people just feel helpless to stop it, or more realistically, the fact is just that what would actually fix the situation would require one or both partners not just changing some aspect of their behaviour, but really changing part of their personality. So instead they just hold on and hope.

I've seen one or two situations over the years where a lad (and in one case I've been in that situation from the other side) tries their level best to save a failing relationship, but I'm of the opinion that once the other person's mind has been made up that they've had enough, that's just about it. You can't change their mind by taking them out for dinner more often or getting a new haircut or buying them some flowers. They're already entering a stage where they actively dislike you and don't want to spend time with you.

I think we really put more stock in the window dresing of a relationship than is warranted. We read more complexity into human behaviour than is really there. At theend of the day the vast majority of time youspend with a partner is to have your dinner with them and watch a bit of telly after work. The most important thing is that you don't clash horribly during those fundamental bits. It's vital that their snoring doesn't drive you livid, or they don't leave their empty mugs all over the place, or whatever other little petty thing will drive you loopy.

I think women are just worse for the "monkey branching" thing than men, because beyond a very slim window in their early 20s, being single and sleeping around is very heavily stigmatised for them. If they reach 30 and they're still living alone they're either a wine aunt or cat lady in the making. Whereas a man over 30 living on his own is seen as perhaps a bit of a sad-act, and people will make those overgrown bachelor jokes about how his house must be a constant mess because men can't look after a house, it's not quite the same thing.

There are exceptions to evey generalisation you can make of course. I know one bloke at work who should be guaranteed to die alone because he's such an incredibly boring motherfucker and the only thing he can offer a woman is an encyclopaedic knowledge of what's on Netflix. But I have no doubt he'll eventually fall in with a desperate late 30s divorcee with 3 kids.

>>436838

>tries their level best to save a failing relationship, but I'm of the opinion that once the other person's mind has been made up that they've had enough, that's just about it.

Very true. There's just a point of no return where it's too little, too late.


>They're already entering a stage where they actively dislike you and don't want to spend time with you.

One lass I was with for two years as a younglad started making up doubtful excuses why she couldn't come and spend the weekend with me, or she didn't want to spend the night because her parents suddenly needed her early in the morning or something. And a weekend holiday that we'd been planning for months was also beginning to look iffy for a few sketchy reasons.

I caught her off guard just days before we broke up, when she was actively being flirted with by a service station attendant and really seemed to enjoy the attention from an arguably attractive random stranger bloke. I was waiting in the car the whole time, which might explain why he was overtly coming on to her, while I could just about make them out going back and forth through the glass window, but when she got back in the car and told me, with a big smile on her face, I said, "Somebody you could imagine having a snog with?". And the way she processed that question wasn't like, "Oh don't be jealous" or something, no, you could tell she was weighing the actual pros and cons of snogging that very lad. In other words, her mind was somewhere else already. I'll never forget the look on her face when she then realised she'd fallen for a trick question. There was dead silence on the 30-minute drive home.

We broke up some ten days later, but not because there was actually another lad in the picture, but because the relationship had just run its course and there was nothing left to hold on to. A strange mix of despising the other person, and at the same time feeling incredibly sad that our once wonderful relationship had deteriorated to that.

>>436843
>but when she got back in the car and told me, with a big smile on her face, I said,
When she told you what? Sorry I think you missed a bit out of your tale.

>>436879

She told me that servicestationlad was quite unmistakably hitting on her.

Like I said, her mind was somewhere else already. She just wasn't ready yet to admit it to me, but she knew for herself deep down, and had likely known for some time. And at that moment, it was clear as day. And I knew that we were over. It still took us a little more than a week to drop the other shoe, but it wasn't a pleasant week. I spent a lot of the time just watching TV to get my mind off it, or listening to the song Empty Rooms by Gary Moore. I knew what was coming, but nothing is a lonelier place than being in limbo with your relationship like that. It's almost a relief when you then sit down and have the final talk.

>>436814
>She's also got a literal porno cunt

What does this mean?

>>436889
I've watched shitloads of porn and the majority of fannies aren't noteworthy in any way.

>>436889

I assumed he meant "innie" labia lips.

>>436891
When you fuck fatties they're all innies.

>>436892

Not you again, obesityfetishlad.

>>436893
Is she actually obese or just pleasantly plump?

>>436894

She is obese.

>>436894
Oh here we go again. I give it five fucking minutes and its land whale city around here.

>>436895
She's got no hanginging flesh soo I'd call that plump and/or fat rather than obese, but she hasn't got a nice shape about it. I feel like an arsehole talking about a woman like this. But let's not derail another thread with this shit.

>>436893

Honestly mate, it's not me. I've radicalised otherlad and turned him into a shill for Big Lasses, for which I can only apologise.

>>436897

You're spot on though. Don't let Big Body Positivity get into your head, we are all allowed our tastes, but we have to be frank about obesity in the same way we would about drugs or excessive tanning or drinking bottled water or whatever else gives you cancer nowadays.

She's chubby, bordering on actually fat, but that has nothing to do with the reasons she's unattractive. I've probably shagged lasses heavier than her, but they were much fitter. It's all about how the body carries it.

Give me a big round arse with one of those smooth, tight inny cunts tucked under it, and I'll be a happy man. Whereas you can tell she's got beef curtains and it smells of Walker's crisps.

>>436899
I think I'd love a fanny that smells of crisps.

>>436900

Salt and vinegar is fine, maybe prawn cocktail at a push, but I draw the line at cheese and onion.

>>436894
She's got a beer belly. From the look I'd say she's got more visceral fat than anything else. No matter what you think about looks she's not healthy.

>>436901
Salt and vinegar would be fine but I venture to suggest that prawn cocktail might be the worst. They already smell like bad fanny.

>>436900

Long as she'll fit into a bathroom stall in a Blackpool chippie, I'll try anything once.

>>436904

If it must be used with such frequency, could we at least make this one of those memes where you continuously distort it until it's a sushi bar in Portsmouth, or a Brazillian carvery in Withernsea?

It really hadn't been left long enough to be a decent call back otherwise. Officially, we're not supposed to have any memes at all.

Regards, the .gs Meme Curation Society.

>>436905
You can't blame him for getting a bit too eager; it's the first one we've had since the fisherman's breakfast.

>>436892>>436906

I'd gobble her fishy platter IYKWIM.

>>436907
Scarlett Moffatt's fishy platter is a phrase that should never be uttered again.

No. I picked the wrong girl and bitterly regret it.

She's extremely attractive but we are otherwise different people with little in common. I'm about to break up with her when the time is right.

>>436909

>Scarlett Moffatt's fishy platter

Seems like an adequate replacement for SARAH MILLICAN'S SQUELCHY FANNY CUSTARD.

>>436912
When will the time be right?

>>436913

I know which one I'd rather have my fill of.

>>436914
Good point, when I let go of the safety net and realise I'm delaying the inevitable so it's time to be brave.

Even if you know they're not right, it's hard letting go, having to chart your own course again and live with the possibility that you might die alone and never find another.

I once got flak for buying chocolate for a lady (and her family) while on a business trip, the crime was that I'd gotten milk chocolate when she 'only ate' dark. I think a lot of lads would appease here, I used to do that all the time to keep the peace. This time though, I told her to stop being a bitch and appreciate at least that I got a gift while on a short business trip.

Now that might seem trivial. Yet I remember my Mum putting my step-dad through hell, even though he had his own business and when he wasn't out working he'd be working on building the extension to the house. Both partners often end up silently making a lot of concessions along the way which really do build up. It's like not cleaning because you don't like it, fine for a few weeks but after two years you live in a pigsty. At that point, it's not washing a few dishes but a solid week or two of deep cleaning. If you weren't motivated to clean a few plates then it's likely you'll accept this mess as 'just how it is'.

You'd probably start looking for ways to magically fix the problem: maybe you'd move house or hire a cleaner. That'd work for a bit, but eventually the mess would pile up and you're back here again. Perhaps you'd decide to make a start one day, but it won't work because your partner knows the rules and just leaves their shit everywhere. If you add to that jobs and other parts of life and the inclination to progress things to fix them (i.e. if we get married that might fix it), it's easy to see why people feel like their relationships are so immovable.

>>436916

I once struggled to break up with a lass and the advice was to formulate a plan. I had a few months until our lease ended, so I planned it all out meticulously: how I'd find a new place, when I'd tell her, how I'd tell her, etc. Needless to say, first thing I did when I got home was the exact opposite and break up with her there and then. Not sure what my point is but might be worth planning it out.

>>436917
When I was a teenlad I had a lass nearly break up with me because I bought her a box of dark chocolate. She doesn't like dark chocolate and apparently this meant I didn't know her at all. I was strapped for cash and that was the best deal in Kwik Save at the time.

I also knew a lad who couldn't pluck up the courage to break up with his long-term girlfriend so he decided to cheat on her because that would be the point of no return and there'd be no coming back from it. She forgave him.

>>436917

>the crime was that I'd gotten milk chocolate when she 'only ate' dark

I once promised a girlfriend that I'd get her a souvenir from a business trip to Berlin. We were really slammed there and had a full schedule all day long, and only got to see a little bit of the city for two hours on the last day. The best I could manage was a miniature of the Brandenburg Gate, an arguably tacky looking item made in China that was less than the size of the palm of your hand, but I nearly missed the train to the airport because I had my mind set on not returning home without the promised souvenir. But then when I gave it to her, she was visibly disappointed and said, "What am I going to do with that?". So I said, what did she expect me to get, and she said, "I don't know... something pretty, something romantic". I told her that I almost missed my flight home to make sure I got a fucking souvenir for her, but that didn't seem to cut it.

These stories sound like you would have been better off buying no gift at all. I'm not sure I like the moral here. The best I can come up with is that these people were always ungrateful of the energy put into making them happy and these events just highlighted their flaws.

>>436922


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON3HS4mOZEU

>>436920

I've always been pretty good at buying gifts for my partners, as long as they've got an actual personality for me to base my decision on. I used to struggle when I was a young lad but looking back it's just because they were vapid slags, so I had very little to go on.

That said in your situation I'd have probably just bought something at the duty free and blagged it. Souvenirs seem like a daft idea to me, most of the world has exactly the same consumerist culture nowadays so what exactly are you supposed to bring back that you can't get just the same over here?

I'm reminded of when I was a kid and my mum had gone To Tunisia or something for a hen do, and brought me back a fez and a bunch of vaguely Aladdin-ish stuff. Maybe back then you wouldn't have been able to just nip online and order them, but nowadays there's absolutely no reason for somebody to go half way around the world just to bring back a hat.

>>436930

>That said in your situation I'd have probably just bought something at the duty free and blagged it.

See, my idea for a souvenir was to get something original, something you'd only find in Berlin, because what's the point of getting an oversize bottle of some perfume brand in duty free that she could just as easily have gotten for a little more money in any perfume shop back home. I actually wanted to convey to her that I made the effort to find something that was original to the place I went to, even if it had "Made in China" faintly stamped under the bottom.

I think the problem when you can't make somebody happy despite your best efforts is that person's general attitude about what they think you are to them as their partner. There seem to be a lot of women in particular who think a lad is there to make them happy, and make them feel important and taken care of. Worshipped even, for want of a better word. And they'll give any number of reasons why they feel that way, from rough loveless upbringing to abusive past relationships, or just plain the notion that the Earth revolves around them.

There's no changing a person like that. If you find yourself in a relationship where you're just being bossed around and nothing is ever good enough, the only thing you can do is break up. The problem is, a lot of lads are in a relationship like that because they never learned to stick up for themselves. They're letting it happen, and they will also not have the balls to just flat out dump somebody.

>>436930

>because they were vapid slags, so I had very little to go on.

You just reminded me of the string of the most recent girls I've met online, didn't seems to have any hobbies, didn't seem to open up when I asked them questions, didn't seem interested in talking dirty. Say what you like about the tenants of national socialism but at least they have a fucking opinion about things.

>>436932

> didn't seems to have any hobbies

Watch out. A lot of lasses who don't really have any genuine hobbies of their own will go all shapeshifter from one boyfriend to the next with it. Very probably because they just don't have enough personality of their own, they will get into whatever their current boyfriend likes to spend time doing. And so they go from being a pretend gamer while they're with one lad, to being a pretend grease monkey with the next fella who can seemingly tell you all the pros and cons between four- and six-cylinder engines. When in reality, she's just parroting what she once heard her boyfriend discuss with his mates.

My last girlfriend was a passionate wind surfer. And she had been doing it since she was about twelve years old. Can't say it's something I'd ever really get into, I tried a few times while we were together but it just doesn't do anything for me. But at least she had that one big hobby in her life that she was passionate about. Which in itself gave her character.

>>436933
I really hate people without their own hobbies, they make the worst partners.

They can't understand why your life doesn't become merged into one blob where you do everything together and like time alone as your own independent person.

Yeah this kind of person is the epitome of ‘if you are bored than you are boring’. And online dating seems full of them. And they always tell you they are bored. The most recent one I half assumed they were some sort of scammer their conversation was so basic and lacking of input.

>My last girlfriend was a passionate wind surfer. And she had been doing it since she was about twelve years old. Can't say it's something I'd ever really get into, I tried a few times while we were together but it just doesn't do anything for me. But at least she had that one big hobby in her life that she was passionate about. Which in itself gave her character.

Exactly I have no interest in wind surfing and probably never would but I am sure they are capiable of saying more than 'lol idk' in a conversation purely based on that.

>>436935
Also it just gives them something interesting to their personality, something unique, something to talk about, something to see them enjoy and get passionate about.

Nothing worse than people with hobbies that include Nandos, TV and relaxing with a glass of wine. Sadly I think there are enough desperate people that will put up with that anyway.

Why are you lads acting like only lasses don't have hobbies? Granted there are many women who think trying different flavours of gin is a personality trait but I know plenty of lads who have little interests beyond consuming media.

>>436935

>but I am sure they are capiable of saying more than 'lol idk' in a conversation

My first serious girlfriend was notorious for never being able to start a meaningful conversation on her own, and having no discernible opinion about anything that was a more demanding conversation topic than the latest boy bands or the shenanigans of the people who lived in her small town. She would jump in to some extent when you were the one starting the conversation, but I just never managed to really keep anything like that going with her for more than about ten minutes. Granted, she was 17 when we met and I was 20, I was at uni and she eventually became a nurse, but it just seemed that even for someone between the ages of 17 and 19, she was quite a vapid empty shell of a person. No passionate opinions, no hobbies, no interest ever in any kind of heated debate. You will probably want to dismiss all that because of her age, but I knew plenty of lasses at uni in that same age range who were quite highly opinionated about big topics like politics or the economy, and who had very definite hobbies and interests.

Eventually, we broke up because that was our biggest problem. No common ground to just sit somewhere and talk about something together for hours. A few months after her, I briefly dated a lass who was the polar opposite, and although it was relatively clear after the second or third date that we didn't have enough in common for anything more serious, we sat in her car for six hours straight one night and just talked our mouths off. I remember going home that night with my mind blown that there were actually women in the world that I could spend six hours talking with and not even notice time flying by. And it also reassured me that the breakup with my first girlfriend, although it was really kind of painful for me, was absolutely the right thing.

The novelty of being together eventually always wears off. And then, what becomes important is if you actually have enough things to talk about. Not having that with your romantic partner, of all people, can become a very lonely place.

>>436940

I don't think anyone's saying that, we're talking about women.

Plus I feel like most britfa.gs are straightish males with hobbies, so it doesn't really make sense to be wondering why we're not talking more about boring men in a thread about relationships.

>>436943

>so it doesn't really make sense to be wondering why we're not talking more about boring men in a thread about relationships.

Quite right. I arguably triggered this line of conversation with this post (>>436932) and I felt like saying 'but I know boring men too' but decided against it because it seemed tangential and I assumed you were sensible enough bunch to not project some sort of implied actual maritime issues that it was only women who can be boring.

But since we brought it up now…

I once tried having a conversation in my past work with another member of my team only to discover there was nothing really there. It was strange, I found most people have some sort of quirk if you drill down and get them to open up (even the ‘bored’ want-a-conversation-but-are-entirely-passive-in-it online daters I believe will reveal themselves to be interesting given time), but this person was a blank, a life unlived. Ironically that made them terribly interesting to me, not as someone to talk to but someone to think about. Not as a negative but at wonder because they could be so seemingly content in that, and I am driven constantly to appease my existential anguish.

>>436946

I feel like most boring blokes still somehow have an encyclopaedic knowledge of football, which I suppose is something, but definitely not my thing.

There was (is) a lad at work who is as dull as dishwater, we call him the NPC because he just sits in a corner and responds with vague phrases every now and then - but even he, I discovered was an ex-restaurant manager and as former cheflad he came alive once I started talking about margins and food costs with him. It was an entirely dull conversation but the passion he displayed really had a noticeable effect on how people thought of him.

There's plenty of dull men though. I see a lot of it in my street, which is mostly older folk - men who did nothing but work and sit quietly in the pub all their lives, they retire and have nothing to do and they go mental. They mostly just wash their cars every two days and stop people in the street to drone on at them about the weather or about how they used to be a taxi driver or whatever. One feeds pigeons, I couldn't thing of much duller than that, they're all the same fucking colour.

I wonder if people think I'm dull, I'm quite quiet and won't really volunteer that much about my hobbies. I hear "I had no idea you do x" quite a bit. But I'd still talk about this stuff on a date or on tinder, because I understand how it works. Maybe these dull tinder girls are proper into competitive tomato growing but think they have to hide it from people, I don't know.

A person i once knew used to say "when you get to my age, men are like parking spaces. The good ones are taken and all that's left are disabled". A nasty sentiment, but one that probably has some truth to it.

I often wonder how confidence affects the type of people I find attractive, approachable or attainable. I like big women because I don't often feel intimidated by them, ie I don't have much confidence. It's patronising, right? One day I caught myself actually thinking "it doesn't matter if I look like shit because you're not much better" - I hated myself for it. But it makes me wonder if you should really persue a relationship with someone when you're fat, depressed, or whatever, because ultimately their percieved attractiveness is only a reflection of the way you feel.

There was a girl i really liked beyond any attraction I've experienced. She was nothing like the people I've found myself attracted to before. She had the most wonderful smile, and the most beautiful, characteristic teeth. But those teeth weren't 'good', by regular standards. They were a little dark, wonkey, etc. But to me they were the jewel that made her glitter and shine. They completed her, made her perfect. I'd torture myself saying I only like her because other people won't; she'd be an easy keeper, would only have to defend against fellow scumbags like myself, etc ..

Am I a cunt?

>>436947
> I wonder if people think I'm dull, I'm quite quiet and won't really volunteer that much about my hobbies.

This is me. I think a lot of people consider me to be a boring sod because I'm not into football, I don't know anything about the X-Factor or Love Island or Celebrity Jungle Kangaroo Fucking or whatever's on these days, and I'm probably not even watching the same Netflix shows as everyone else.

I was going to say that my hobbies are extremely niche, but I think that's missing the point. While my work and hobbies do tend towards the extremely specialised, I find that I can hold a decent conversation on almost any topic by dint of being fairly widely read and having a healthy level of curiosity about, well, everything. In contrast, a lot of my work colleagues can make computers dance but struggle to do their own tax return or talk about anything that isn't made of silicone.

In any case, it's a funny old world when having interests as "niche" as knowing a bit about contemporary politics and recent history (in the broadest sense) and reading actual novels puts you at a distinct disadvantage in the dating game (especially online).

Total and utter sage for posting rambling shite that was apropos of nothing much at all.

>>436948
>the most beautiful, characteristic teeth

This is my favourite line I've read in a while. It sounds like you're suffering from low self esteem.

>>436951

Maybe he's just a weeb into yaeba or a super hardcore weeb into ohaguro?

>>436948

>A person i once knew used to say "when you get to my age, men are like parking spaces. The good ones are taken and all that's left are disabled". A nasty sentiment, but one that probably has some truth to it.

On the other hand, women who don't marry by a certain age also often do so because there's something really kind of different about them. I personally don't buy the thing you read often that they're women who put their career first and just never got to settle down with a lad and have offspring because that career was so demanding and took all their energy. There are plenty of women who work full time and build quite respectable careers for themselves while still managing to get married and have a baby or two.

Generally though, man or woman, if you never-ever settle down and have kids, it really is a fair assumption that there's something in your character that makes you somehow different from everybody else. It won't be because good men or women are hard to find. And it also probably won't be because you are ugly on the outside or have other physical shortcomings, or otherwise don't conform to society's usual ideas about physical attractiveness. There are people in wheelchairs who are married and need their spouse to wipe their arse twice a day because they can't do it themselves.

There was a Channel 4 documentary a few years ago about the dynamics of finding the right person in life, and one of the researchers they interviewed said that quite simply, if you spend too long looking for Mr. or Mrs. Right, there is a very real possibility that you will end up all alone.

I hate to make it sound elitist but it ultimately comes down to dating above or below your intelligence bracket a lot of the time. We say it's dull lasses who don't have hobbies, but really they do- They just seem trivial or trite to us. Like putting sticks in jars. And likewise, as some of you have mentioned, lads who probably have a unique thought approximately once a week, but could probably reel off the entire premiership league table on the spot if you asked them.

My las ex was a lovely lass and I still miss her in a lot of ways. She sucked cock like her life depended on it for one thing, she really put the bloody effort in to please me like I've never experienced before or since. She did all the housework and never complained about it, even said she quite liked the traditional "woman's work" stuff. I had it absolutely fucking made, and I knew I did- But she was just thick, honestly.

It sounds harsh but she'd admit it herself, and not out of self-loathing. She got something like 3 Ds and four Cs at GCSE and she knew she wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. She wasn't interested in being clever. She didn't care. And while she had a good sense of humour on shallow banter, ultimately after a couple of years it meant we just could hardly interact. We'd go to the pub and sit staring at each other, basically. It was intolerable.

I'd just sit across from her sometimes thinking how much I hated the fact that she was such a PERFECT partner, but for the one, insurmountable, glaring flaw that was gradually forcing me to end it. It was pretty bitter. Whoever she's with now is a lucky bastard, as long as he's not afflicted with intelligence.

>>436954

I reckon that ultimately, I'm absolutely fine being single. I've had some good relationships, but I think I'm just too inherently independent or solitary (or just selfish if I'm being honest) to truly be okay with the compromises inherent in any relationship, even quite minor ones.

Maybe I am just a weirdo but it's nice to wake up at 3am and go for a drive or start soldering stuff in the shed without disturbing someone else. I do think I just prefer being solitary and perhaps that does make me different or nonconformist. But then it's not like I'm single because I have no options, I just don't want to pursue any of them.

I absolutely don't want kids, which I suppose does narrow my options as I go into my thirties, but it's hard to feel concerned. Perhaps I can find someone whose idea of a perfect relationship also involves living in separate houses but I doubt it.

>>436954

I know a couple of lasses and at least on lad I'm fairly sure will end up in that situation, and what you describe as being "different" about them is true. It's not that they're ugly, it's not that they're wierdos, they're just not into it the same way other people are, they don't have this driving fundamental desire to settle down. They can take it or leave it.

I know one lass who was a virgin until she was something like 29. She almost talked me into deflowering her once but, can you believe it, I didn't want the baggage spoiling the friendship and I'd assumed she would turn full psycho after me being the one to pop her at that late of a stage, because obviously that's what would have happened.

>>436957

IME a lot of people are perfectly intelligent but still desperately dull. My stepmum is an extremely highly paid senior executive, she's sharp as a tack when she needs to be, but after work she just watches TV programmes about houses and chats shit on Facebook. She doesn't read books, the only music she listens to is Smooth FM, she doesn't like films with subtitles. She just doesn't see the point in using your brain for fun.

Conversely, I've met quite a lot of people who are basically thick as mince, but are still fun to be around because they're curious and engaged with the world.

I think that as adults, we tend to underestimate the value of play. Many of the most important innovations have come from people just dicking about with something that seems interesting. There's something really quite tragic about someone who will sit at a table that's covered in Lego and not get the urge to build something.

>>436948

>Am I a cunt?

No. Leave the beautiful women to the men with no imagination.

>>436966
>There's something really quite tragic about someone who will sit at a table that's covered in Lego and not get the urge to build something.
Yet it'd be equally tragic for an adult to actually own and play with a box of lego, right? Would you be impressed if you saw it on your mates coffee table?

>>436975

Depends on a) whether they have kids and b) whether they're a sweaty neckbeard. There's a world of difference between a functioning adult who is still connected to their inner child and a pathetic manchild who failed to develop an adult personality.

>>436975

>Yet it'd be equally tragic for an adult to actually own and play with a box of lego

I think the adult equivalent to a lego box you had as a child is a tool shed. It satisfies the need in many men to build and construct things, or just work on something manually.

The difference between men and boys is the size of their toys, innit.


>>436959

>I know a couple of lasses and at least on lad I'm fairly sure will end up in that situation, and what you describe as being "different" about them is true. It's not that they're ugly, it's not that they're wierdos, they're just not into it the same way other people are, they don't have this driving fundamental desire to settle down.

One of my exes had a sister who was just never really interested in boys as a teenager. She never did the things that most girls do at that age, she didn't seem to have any crushes, and never even went on dates. She was content just reading books all day and dreaming of a life where she'd be a school teacher someday. Which she achieved, she is now an English and history teacher and quite happy with her career choice. But she really only started dating in her mid- to late 20s, and up until then, the working theory in her family was that she might be a lesbian but was too afraid to admit it. She eventually got together with a friend of mine and they have now been married a few years, but I think he was actually the one who popped her cherry. And she's not an unpleasant person, she's been just slightly overweight her whole life, but I would say decidedly not a fatty. Sex and relationships were just always very low on her priority list, but she seemed fine with it.

>>436959
>>436978
Think you lads are describing asexuality/aromanticism. I'm sure I'll now be told that I am a monster somehow for putting a label on it.

>>436979

>I'm sure I'll now be told that I am a monster somehow for putting a label on it


You're certainly not being very romantic.



I'll get my coat.

>>436979

I dunno, I like a good shag and a good relationship too, but I'm certainly not climbing the walls without them.

Is there a word for that? I don't mind a label as long as it sounds good.

>>436952
I forgot I'd mentioned the teeth thing, before.

>>436981
I'm similar with technology. If I don't have it then I don't miss it at all, but if I've got my phone in my pocket then I'll be checking it regularly.

>>436975
It does depend on the person. My wife really likes lego and is quite happy to sit on the floor for hours building things. She is on the autistic spectrum, though. And a friend of mine has quite an epic lego collection and was previously a manchild, but having kids meant he had to grow up a bit. Still plays with lego, though.

I think as someone else mentioned, retaining a sense of playfulness as an adult can keep you from appearing boring to others. It's why I like climbing and other people who climb. They are playful, engaged and endlessly amused by puzzles. It makes pub conversation fun, even if they are people who you would never normally engage with.

>>436979

Nah, not really. It's more like a very mild and weak impulse for it, compared to most people's burning need for companionship. It's not as if the lass I mentioned never talked about feeling lonely or anything. She had just never found the right person and had other priorities she put ahead of it.

I don't want to make it sound like some kind of flaw, because how people choose to live their lives is their decision, but she definitely had an air of overall hesitancy to her. She was very late to fly the nest, stayed in a rubbish job that treated her badly for a lot longer than made any sense, just generally she didn't seem to like things progressing and changing.

She was happy with her life at the stage it had been when she was around 19-20 and seemingly wanted it to stay that way as long as possible, in all aspects.

>>436985

> compared to most people's burning need for companionship

I think a lot of people have this burning need because they are afraid of being alone. Probably in part because society teaches you that you only lead a complete life if you have a partner (a message which women seem to be susceptible to much more than men), but maybe also because they never got to experience a significant amount of time being on their own as something that can be positive. There are parts of your personality that can only grow in a meaningful way when you are on your own and forced to fend for yourself without the help of a romantic partner. And it is often through such an experience that you become an independent person as such, with their own ideas and interests and goals in life, which in turn can make you seem all the more attractive in the eyes of a potential new partner.

IMO, the least valid reason to be with someone, or stay with them even, is always that you are afraid of being alone. That's why plenty of people hold on to dying relationships, because in their mind, even being with somebody that you can't stand the sight of anymore is better than being out there all on your own. When ultimately, it's much worse in many ways.

>>436984
I feel as though I'm treading over the line here by walking on walls, kicking my feet and climbing trees.

>>436975

Is there really a big difference between Lego and Citadel miniatures or even Airfix, other than the fact that Lego is generally considered as purely a child's toy?

Lego is great though and having kids is a fantastic excuse to buy loads of the stuff without the stigma of being a sadact.

>>436989

Lego have a range of immensely complex (and expensive) models for adults and even have a sideline in Lego-based management consultancy.

https://www.lego.com/en-gb/seriousplay/

>>436989
All of these seem to fill that obsessiveness that some people need to channel. If it's not lego, it can be trains, cars, airfix or truly gratuitous pornorgraphy collections. For me, it was a frightening desire for drugs that later got chanelled into sports and then cooking. It seems to mostly be a male thing, although beware any woman who displays the intense desire to buy every Hello Kitty product on earth. I've met three of them so far and they have all turned out to be completely insane.

>>436990

Absolutely, yet you'll commonly see men who post their Lego millennium falcons or whatever on reddit getting ripped to shreds for being manchildren (usually by people who play videogames or do other "childish" things).

>>436991
> a frightening desire for drugs

Someone I know (we have many friends in common and move in lots of the same circles but somehow have never actually met, go figure) spent a lot of his life trying to "complete his set of molecules attached to neuroreceptors" and spent a lot of time and money sourcing various obscure chemicals in order to "complete the set". I believe his quest came to an end after he finally acquired ibogaine which, if science is to be believed, tickles basically every neuroreceptor subtype in the brain.

> beware any woman who displays the intense desire to buy every Hello Kitty product on earth

I was going to make a pedo joke, but it'd only get old.

>>436991
>beware any woman who displays the intense desire to buy every Hello Kitty product on earth


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiaYDPRedWQ

>>436993
I'd lop a knacker off to spend a night with Avril Lavigne.

>>436993

Even for Avril Lavigne, that's at the low end of her ability.

>>436994

I raise you a knacker and two toes.

>>436989

Right, it does seem odd for anyone to be judging adult legoists while we have a current active warhammer thread.

I could definitely see myself building a complex lego build, but I like functional things over ornamental, so don't think I could ever really commit to building a very time consuming shelf object. Saying that though, those metal miniature engine models you build up have caught my eye a few times, though at £400 for a nice one, I'd probably not - you could buy an actual engine for that.

Working on cars is absolutely my adult lego and judging by a lot of people in the car scene, I would say that actual lego is potentially a lot less childish.

I had an ex that was really into geocaching, but that's just hiking with extra steps.

>>436997
I went geocaching with an old housemate of mine and it seemed quite autistic as far as hobbies go.

>>436997
K'Nex > The North Poleno > Lego > Playmobil.

IDST

>>436999
>The North Poleno

For actual fuck's sake.

>>437000

I never got into K'Nex or north pole sets, but I wish I had. I think I'd have discovered my knack for 'maker' bollocks much earlier on.

>>436999
>>437000
Mirth.

>you may feel there's social stigma involved in a failed relationship

I never got this part. A failed dating/romantic relationship is probably never even worth thinking of as a stigma. But with one in three marriages ending in divorce, what is the stigma of being among those 33 percent. Going through with a divorce can be the much healthier step than staying with somebody who just saps your lifeblood every day. Sure, it doesn't sound very positive when you introduce yourself as a divorced dad or a divorced mum, but going by the people I know who have gotten divorced, the majority of them seem to be much happier in the knowledge that that part of their life is over. Granted, it gets pretty messy when kids are involved and things like custody and child support.

>>437007
I think that one is more of a stigma for women than men. I've heard, always from other women, that a woman "can't keep a man" but I can't recall ever hearing a man tell another man they he can't keep a woman. Women tend to be far more cut-throat and competitive when it comes to using social status as a barometer of success.

>>437011

>Women tend to be far more cut-throat and competitive when it comes to using social status as a barometer of success.

You have a point. I think women can tend to treat life like they're ticking off a to-do list of major milestones. Be at least engaged by your late 20s, have one or two kids with your middle-management husband within the following five years, and own all the insignia of middle-class succes like a four-bedroom home in the suburbs and two upmarket German or Swedish cars in the driveway. Or at least a New Mini for the wife.

You would think that men are competitive when it comes to career success and the women they court, but women tend to fight much more fiercely for finite resources among themselves, and part of those finite resources is landing a man who is both husband material and a reliable provider (a woman's own professional career notwithstanding). And women put each other down more when they spot weaknesses in their rivals. And that weakness can then also be the fact that a woman is still single with no suitors in sight at age 34.

Going by my own life but also what I see with my friends, men seem to have much less of a predetermined idea about when they want to complete which milestones in their lives. A lot of them are much more "wait and see" about life in general. They want to do all that someday, but it doesn't has to happen within a set amount of time. On the other hand, once a woman enters the picture who has much more definite plans, those lads then often just give in and let the woman take the wheel.

>>437014

I think for most lads it just doesn't occur to think of things like that. Like weddings for example, most women have had it in their mind since they were young and will have a good idea of how they want it to be. Men on the other hand, tend to let the woman decide most of it and haven't really got a clue what they want from it, they haven't really thought about it at all.

For me, it's just something that never came up until I actively started thinking about what I want in clearer terms. I do agree that men tend to drift and be more laid back— but we have time on our side, and unlike women we're quite happy to date down. I'm not really reassured by this but, even if I get to 40 and overweight I can still bag a decent enough Thai ladyboy woman and have a decent shot at building something resembling a family.

This does lull us into a false sense of security, as if we don't have to be tied down and can just live for the moment. However, you do reach a point where life starts to move on. I watch some of my male friends resist this and it can be quite harrowing, to be doing exactly what you did ten years before with no progress. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to get high or drink a bit, but there's a point where lads are just straight up ignoring their own life— it's worrying and it gets harder and harder to relate to them.

In a lot of ways though, women having good plans is quite helpful. As a lad that's never given thought to these things, finding someone with a clear direction is probably understandable, to the point where you'll put up with twigs in Kilner jars.

>>437016

Also, to be fair, women have a much smaller window of fertility. Their core reproductive years range from about 16 to somewhere around 35 to 38. After that, fertility falls off a cliff and the risk of miscarriage and birth defects rises exponentially. Men's sperm also deteriorates with age, but depending on your lifestyle, it's perfectly likely that offspring you'll father in your 40s will be completely healthy. Carrying a baby to term is a much bigger physical stress on a 40 year old woman's body than knocking out a few drops of healthy sperm is for a man that age.

A woman can't just say "oh well, there'll still be time to have kids in my 40s", because realistically, there more often than not won't be. And a woman who is single and never married at 40 will compete with younger women in their 20s and early 30s for the few men who are left, and the men who are actually the eligible bachelor type with financial stability and good, slightly weathered looks usually won't go for a woman their same age who is pretty much at the end of her window. Even divorced dads usually go a bit younger when they start their second family.

It's strange though that 50 years into women's liberation and fishing, little girls still see their wedding day as one of their life's crowning achievements.

>>437014
>You would think that men are competitive when it comes to career success and the women they court, but women tend to fight much more fiercely for finite resources among themselves

The only ones of my friends to have made jealous comments about my relatively successful career are all female, usually with a hint that I've never really had to work for any of it.

>>437019
>It's strange though that 50 years into women's liberation and fishing, little girls still see their wedding day as one of their life's crowning achievements.

In fairer societies women are far less likely to study STEM subjects, although this is more likely because there's greater incentive in less developed nations to use it as a means to escape poverty. I'm sure I've read that in Scandinavian countries the greater push for gender equality has led to people being more likely to follow a career in line with traditional gender roles, such as more female nurses and teachers.

>>437020

> usually with a hint that I've never really had to work for any of it


So what. Snide comments by jealous women aside, some people have to work for it, some people inherit it, and others just get lucky. What is this obsession that people have that your wealth is only legit if you've worked your own arse off for it. By that logic, what is the point of even creating your own wealth through your work, if not so that your children will have a good life and have it easier than you. Do those people really want the government to take away the lion share of people's inheritance so they'll be forced to start from zero again just like their parents, just so that they too can say that they've worked for it themselves?

You hear that kind of thing a lot from upwardly mobile lower middle class Labour supporters. Tax the rich, but don't touch my money, because, hey, I've put all my working class sweat into earning it.

Getting back to relationships though, I dated a lass once who was from a working class family, in fact, her dad was the first person in their family to have had formal professional training, people in that family before that were all low-level factory workers and labourers. And her mum worked at Asda. Anyway, I'm from a middle- to upper middle class upbringing, and I never had a problem with the fact that she was from a working class family, but she kept dealing out all those little tongue in cheek remarks, the way some women do, that I had it easier because my parents were middle class. And that I had the resources to go to uni, while she was forced to leave school after her GCSEs and start an apprenticeship at Boots. And little things, like, my nearby office job I had at the time allowed me to get up just before 9 am and I really only had to be there by about 9:45 before it would have raised anybody's eyebrows, while her job at Boots required her to be in the shop at 7:30 at the very latest.

That's another sub topic for this thread that deserves dissection. Can relationships be happy when two people are from very different upbringings and with very different careers?

>>437022


Honestly while I don't advocate the government doing anything about it, rich kids are almost invariably fucked up.

>>437023
The ones I've met have been alright, although they do have high levels of self belief that border on arrogance.

>>437023

>rich kids are almost invariably fucked up

Being working class can also fuck you up pretty badly though. I'd say it comes out about even. You're just fucked up for different reasons and in different ways.

>>437022
>Can relationships be happy when two people are from very different upbringings and with very different careers?
Yes - my folks came from opposite ends of the class divide and their careers were unrelated, but they are still happily married well into their retirement years.

>>437038

I respectfully disagree. Lower socioeconomic status exacerbates almost every personal problem.

Of course middle class kids don't lead perfect lives, they can still be full of abuse and health problems and misfortune, but working class kids face those same problems with the additional burdens of fewer material resources, fewer job options, less stability, etc..

Also, the incidence of almost every violent/sexual crime and chronic disease increases as you go down the spectrum of class.

To put it bluntly, a middle class family will typically be able to handle a big family setback more easily than a working class family. Individual experience spans good and bad within all social groups, but usually certain group statistically will have more bad.

>>437059

I'm not talking about middle class. I'm talking rich

>>437059

I think middle class is the best place to be. You're between the superficial vapidness of rich people who try to fill every emotional hole in their lives with money and still aren't happy, and on the other hand the scarcity and lack of basic financial and mental resources and opportunities that plague the lower classes.


I was going to post the video to the song "Common People" by Pulp, but a lazy go-to like that would probably do nothing to corroborate my point.

>>437059

We're not really discussing who has it easier as that's quite obvious. It's more the side effects of that class (in the context of relationships), I won't be alone in saying that lower/working tends to be more down to earth while middle has the propensity toward self-loathing.

Going on averages, I'd pick lower or upper over middle any day of the week.

>>437062

>the superficial vapidness of rich people who try to fill every emotional hole in their lives with money and still aren't happy

That behaviour describes a lot of lower and middle people too, as well as the behaviour of a lot of beggars.

>>437062
I genuinely am not trying to be holier than thou, but I don't desire being rich, I just want to be comfortable and I think that's what these middle class people have.

It's not about having millions, it's about having 100k liquid in the bank and a few properties you rent out in case all goes wrong, knowing that when a setback occurs, you can weather the storm.

I recently hit a savings goal for me with 5 numbers before the decimal point and I feel a greater sense of relief than I ever have, even though nothing has physically changed.

I think starting working class and ending up making decent money is the way to go. I know the value of money, live comfortably without being too aspirational, and still give off the vibe that you should probably pick someone else to mug when I'm walking down the street.

Of course it's very easy to get a chip on your shoulder if you accidentally think that your new curtain twitching middle class neighbours will be anything like the people you grew up around.

>>437064

Perspective though, lad. You think having a few properties and £100k in the bank is a "just in case", whereas for a working class family having a couple of hundred quid and a good enough credit score in case the washing machine fails is doing well. Anyone who has £100k in the bank to fall back on really has nothing to worry about, at all. That kind of money is enough to live on for the best part of a decade if you're thrifty with it.

When it comes to relationships I don't think it makes more than a relative difference, however. People are best matched to people who roughly match their own rung of the ladder, and it can cause conflict otherwise. I don't really think it massively affects personal issues.

For example, I had a mate who was dating a lass both older than him and considerably better off- She was a pretty well paid financial advisor, and had shitloads of money coming in from the divorce with her ex. He made £21k salary, and a fair whack selling weed on the side. They got on like a house on fire, but wouldn't you have known it, in theend she caved in to the pressure from her snobby friends who felt like he was out of place at their fancy dinner parties and soirées.

>>437067
Interesting, I'm working class, accent and all but my university experience, job since then and general attitudes towards certain things might place me, on paper, into the kind of middle class person (even if I don't have the asset backing) you would imagine.

I've always tended to date girls a lot better off than me and it's never really been a problem, except for when they find the quirks of my working class upbringing or parents something to gently mock. If anything sometimes it's like they see me as a bit rebellious but also acceptable because I can still chat to their dad about radio 4 and the Thatcher years.

>>437069

You're probably a lot like me. Working class in terms of background and material circumstance, but middle class in terms of cultural sphere, if that makes sense. It allows you to drift quite a bit if you have a gruff Northern accent and know how to buy drugs, but also keep up with Radio 4 and watch all the panel shows featuring David Mitchell.

Posh birds love a bit of grit, we all know that. But I think all that keeping up appearances shite still shuts you out of a serious relationship with a proper upper-middle class type. It's rarely an interpersonal problem like I said, and it ties into the stuff people said earlier in the thread about women putting far more weight in perceived social status- The last thing they want is to be seen as lowering themselves.

Or, to put it another way, you might make plenty of money, but they don't want you parking a white van in the drive instead of an Audi.

>>437064

> it's about having 100k liquid in the bank and a few properties you rent out in case all goes wrong, knowing that when a setback occurs, you can weather the storm.

That isn't middle class though. That's upper middle class to wealthy.

Most middle class people will have paid off their family home halfway at best by the time their kids are teenagers. They will maybe have 20 to 30 grand in liquid assets in the bank, just enough for a few years' worth of repairs on their house and some unforeseen expenses, and their cars will probably also be financed. They may have decent enough combined household incomes of about £80 to £120K, but that's where things end for many of them.

I think it all also depends on how many generations removed you are from poverty. If your folks have always been middle class or even among the well to do, then there is a greater likelihood that even as a fellow middle class member, you will have more assets to your name than the above mentioned type of family. It's not uncommon these days for people like that to inherit a huge stack of money from their parents or grandparents when they die. But if you're first-generation middle class and your parents were essentially paupers, then you probably don't have enough assets to fall back on when times get rough and your £80K middle management salary stops when you're laid off.

>>437071
> You're probably a lot like me. Working class in terms of background and material circumstance, but middle class in terms of cultural sphere, if that makes sense.

My dad's family always used to call that the "educated working class" and very much felt themselves to be a proud part of it.

Personally I think the entire structure of upper/middle/working class is essentially dead. How can someone who works 40+ hour weeks be anything other than working class, whether he gets minimum wage or £300k + bonus? The whole point of being middle or upper class is that you were essentially people of means and leisure.

Sage for shitting up the thread with my own impotent rage against the class system.

"Yeah but, how can I be working class? I don't work.

>>437077

It's not dead at all, the middle class, being the short sighted vermin that they are, have simply allowed themselves to be further subjugated. The material aspect is less important than the social capital and status.

This is why the left is struggling so much today. The left is full of fart sniffing guardianistas, who of course claim to care about the struggle of poor people. But the cold, hard reality of it is that it is in their own self interest to ensure the bourgeoisie don't further demote them. It's all well and good letting the Poles come over and do Daz's job for cheaper, but what if my Tarquin is forced to get a job at Tesco, like one of the proles, despite his degree in the humanities? That's a clear indicator that capitalism is broken, and something must be done.

The working class know they're at the bottom, and everyone's out to fuck them over. The upper class know they're in charge and that the only thing they need worry about is maintaining the status quo. But the middle, they simply lean whichever way the wind is blowing for them.

>>437080
Even if that is true you're not doing anyone except the upper classes any favours by perpetuating the class divide with your spite.

Tarquin is a stereotypically upper class name, to boot.

>>437082

Reminds me of something Rob Beckett once said in a stand up routine.

"Don't get me wrong, Rupert is a perfectly good name for a person. I just never thought I'd meet one".

I think Rob Beckett grew up in East London as the son of a full-time taxi driver.

>>437081

It's perfectly true, which is why people often dislike it being expressed. I'm a materialist, in the political sense, I suppose, so I don't begrudge the Tarquins and Ruperts fighting for their own interests of not having to work in Tesco. But that means I won't condemn the peasants for wanting all the immigrants kicked out either. Ultimately it just pisses me off that one thinks it's more morally righteous than the other. Both of them need to realise and acknowledge this truth before they can hope to progress in unison.

>>437103

The important thing is that you've found a way to feel morally superior to both.

>>437108

Indeed. A third way, you might say.

>>437103

You think the Tarquins of this world like immigrants?

>>437112
Early Rome was a hub for mirgrants iirc.

>>437093
> Rob Beckett

Cunt went to the same school as Tom Allen. As my granny used to say, you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

>>437119

It's not a bad school if it produced two nationally known comedians. Even if one was a pauper and the other one's a poof.

>>24956
>>437142
The poof and the pauper, title of your wedding video?

>>437146

I just caught myself going through the Facebook profile of someone who I was acquainted with as a teenlad. I found myself judging them for not "growing up" in the past 15 years, which was based squarely on what he was wearing, his hairstyle and the expressions he was pulling.

He's a local DJ so he's probably having more fun in life than I am and shagged more lasses than I ever will. I don't know why my mind went straight to judging him like this and it makes me feel bad.

>>437954
The "I wonder where they ended up" thing soon passes in your twenties. Usually a few minutes after you make the mistake of meeting up with one of them. Social media definitely makes this process more difficult though.

>>437956

I stopped doing it after discovering that one of my exes is now a world renowned researcher in quantum cryptography.

>>437957
Yeah, that would kind of suck.

>>437957

Look on the bright side, if you've stopped measuring their career then we can't ever be sure they still have one.

I'll simultaneously get and not get my coat

Ugh, stop talking about exes lads, I haven't been able to stop thinking about what a cock hungry slag my ex was when I wasn't arguing the toss with her over where the TV remote lives. Totally different quality to my current bird, who is by all accounts much more suited to me in terms of personality, and overall just has tons more depth as a person... But she just doesn't have the sexual je ne sais quoi, you know?

It usually goes away after I've had a wank over the video I've got saved of her riding my cock, but I fear if it weren't for that video I'd have caved in and sent her an awful text message under the pretext I was drunk.

>>437968
>I've had a wank over the video I've got saved of her riding my cock

This is Inception levels of depth. Good work ladm9.

My friend has had a massive bust-up with her husband because going on maternity leave means she's not been able to cover her half of the mortgage and bills. He's expecting her to pay this back, with interest, when she returns to work and he won't accept a deduction from this for the amount saved in nursery fees because "I'm not paying for you to look after our child."

People are strange creatures at times.

>>441495
Well, he's just a cunt.

>>441495
>"I'm not paying for you to look after our child."
I can't really imagine a more worthwhile thing to pay for, frankly. Maybe a new Elder Scrolls game, but that's not happening so he's a freak.

Consider cuckholding him and taking his family.

I've always found it a bit weird when couples in long-term relationships don't share their finances and instead pay into a joint account 50:50 for bills and keep everything else for themselves.

One of my friends ended up in about £20k of credit card debt because her boyfriend insisted on a lifestyle that her income couldn't support but where they went halves on everything. He's also made them change towns several times, presumably to try and isolate her, and has repeatedly cheated on her. I don't know why she won't leave him.

>>441498

>He's also made them change towns several times, presumably to try and isolate her

Not unlikely that the real reason they moved was so he could get away from his creditors.


> I don't know why she won't leave him.

Short of him consciously gaslighting her, look around you. Many incredibly attractive lasses who deserve much better are with complete arseholes. It's the old thing of women saying they want somebody nice, funny and sensitive, but over and over again, they keep ending up with a complete bellend.

>>441495

That's mental. I could sort of see him wanting to be paid back, not every couple shares a bank account, but the 'with interest' bit is utter madness. How on earth to people like that manage to get married at all.

>>441500
They live in a ~£500k house in the North and he's been the one with most of the money behind him so it's probably some control thing about making sure she doesn't take him for a ride, even if they're married for years and now have a baby.

>>441501
has she cheated on him in the past (hence he's anal about not being taken for a ride)? is he much better looking than she is (because why else would a woman put up with that dynamic)?

>>441498

How's that wierd? It makes perfect sense, it avoids any possibility of arguments about money because frankly there's nothing worse for a relationship, and you can still buy each other things.

I find the other side of the coin just tends to be the kind of bloke who makes that tired old joke about "haha I better ask the wife" every time he wants to buy something as if she's either his mum, or invoking the casually sexist trope that women are greedy and controlling over the money because she wants it to go on shoes and holidays. I have no respect for that kind of man, it's your money and hers is hers.

>>441503
I'd have said it was the other way around. Having your own account and keeping things secretive rather than sharing it and being fully open with your partner screams to me that you're too scared of what they would say if they found out what you're spending money on.

>>441503
>"haha I better ask the wife"
Joking aside it's good practice to discuss large purchases with your partner, and mandatory in the case of things you will jointly own or use.

>>441504

How the fuck do you secretly spend money? She's going to notice your massive Death Korps of Krieg army soon enough. Even then it's irrelevant because again- it's your money and they've no right to say anything at all.

This just screams to me that you need a joint account your Mrs can monitor because you're too irresponsible not to spunk it all up the wall on porn and footy bets otherwise. We've had the conversation about infantilised men who rely on their partner here before, and I'm quite sure this is one of the biggest signs of it.

>>441506

Chicken and egg problem sometimes, really. Do some men have to ask their missus for approval because they're shit at spending money responsibly on their own, or are they bad at it because somebody else is controlling their spending.

There are enough examples on both sides for people who can't handle money. One of my parents' friends was earning shedloads of money with his own insurance sales business (this was basically before the Internet), but he had a wife who was blowing through it like there was no tomorrow. At one point, she bought £5,000 worth of bedroom furniture one month on a whim and out of the boredom of being stuck at home all day. And then when he died in his early 50s from a heart attack, it took her barely two years to spend just over £100K of cash that he had left her. And when that money was gone, she flogged his valuable family heirlooms.

Moral of the story, make sure your partner isn't a walking money pit, I guess.

>>441507
I work with someone who takes all of her boyfriend's money and then gives him an allowance, otherwise he spends it all on booze and going out.

>>441509
Christ. How does he live with himself?

>>441510
He's a bit of a simple lad. I don't think he's ever really needed to learn responsibility because he has been constantly mothered.

>>441511

>I don't think he's ever really needed to learn responsibility because he has been constantly mothered

It happens. Which is why I maintain that everybody, man or woman, should live on their own for a few years and learn to master basic life skills that an adult should possess, before moving in with a partner.

>>441512
I do live on my own as it happens but even when I were a kid and lived with my parents I was expected to cook for myself and do my own washing, and usually the rest of the family's laundry and washing up and tea making. I think living on your own can help, but teaching those sort of skills is possible whilst living at home.


Funny story, the day before I moved out for uni, my dad had this 20 minute top of his lungs screaming session at me about how I was an ungrateful little shit and I was deliberately sabotaging his coffee by making it taste like shit. When I pointed out that a) I don't drink coffee so I have no idea what it's supposed to taste like, b) in the previous six years he'd not once pointed out that it didn't taste good so how the fuck was I supposed to know, and c) if he wanted coffee how he liked it he shouldn't scream at me to make it every 30 minutes whilst I'm trying to do school work and make it himself, he reiterated that I was doing it deliberately and should have been more grateful (for what, I'm not sure). I don't have a bad relationship with my parents, and that incident has never been mentioned again, but it was just such a fucking weird thing to happen.

>>441516

I suspect that was your emotionally-constipated dad's way of saying "I love you son and I'm going to miss you".

>>441509
That's what she tells you. It's all part of their full time findom lifestyle.

>>441516

>but it was just such a fucking weird thing to happen.

How do you bugger up coffee though? Contrary to what hipsters will have you believe, it's not sorcery to be able to make a pleasant tasting cup of coffee.


Agree with your general point though, that your parents can already teach you life skills while you are still living with them. I remember my mum teaching me how to use the washing machine and dryer when I was about 15, when she got tired of me always wanting to wear things that she hadn't had the time to put in the wash. Also, my mum is still of the generation where a wife was expected to have good cooking skills, and I learned a lot from her, like how to fry a steak so that it's still juicy inside, or how to cook vegetables just right.

My dad wasn't around long enough to teach me the "lad" stuff like fixing electrical appliances or repainting a garden fence, but I eventually picked those skills up myself in adulthood.

>>441519

Maybe his dad's a hipster?

I guess this thread is as good as any. My girlfriend has told me quite a few horror stories about her mum, mainly about her being emotionally abusive and violent when she was growing up, but they have a reasonably close relationship now; I suspect this is because my girlfriend has always wanted love and validation from her parents and her mum doesn't really have anyone else anyone else to talk to. However, she's mentioned a few times that I never make any effort to talk to her mum. Whilst this is true I'm not rude or uncivil towards her; I've just never found the words to tell my girlfriend that I've no interest in pretending to be friends with the woman who used to regularly slap her around and who told her to shut up and never mention it again when she plucked up the courage to tell her she was being sexually abused. What would you lads do in this scenario?

>>446030
Run. In future don't be so bloody naïve when it comes to women from a toxic background. And use /emo/ newchap.

How do you manage finances when you're in a relationship? I thought we were on the same page, but my girlfriend got a job around Easter after being a stay at home mum for years and I've no idea where all of our money is going now. We managed alright beforehand, but there's been a few months since she started working where I've been worried we won't have enough to make ends meet. There's currently about £18 in the bank account to last until she gets paid tomorrow. October is a bad month because that's when the car insurance and my MOT/service are due, but I don't know how much weight I put into that because you can probably look at our accounts most months and there'll be items you can chalk up as exceptional one-offs. I know inflation has shot up but I don't see how an extra £1,200 a month can be lost to lifestyle creep, yet here we are.

>>454870

You need a budget. The cost of living is creeping up and everyone is seeing their bank balances dwindle at the end of the month, but it's easy to piss away hundreds of pounds a month on bullshit without really noticing. Once you've got everything down on paper, you can start making meaningful decisions about how you spend your money.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/budget-planning/
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/money-help/

>>454871
Thanks lad. I tried that before but didn't have much luck, so I thought moving to Starling would be a convenient way of allowing her to track her spending but evidently it hasn't worked. She's definitely smart but has some glaring blind spots and this wasn't really an issue until she started working and our income went up.

She told me a couple of weeks ago things wouldn't be tight this month when I raised concerns, but I guess that was before she spent £85 on a pair of shoes and all the other shit she's blowing money on.

>>454872

I think it's probably best to frame it as a conversation about planning. If you're trying to reign in her spending, then it's likely to turn into a battle of wills. If you can agree on some financial goals (saving for holidays, saving for a deposit, saving for retirement etc) then conversations about avoiding frivolous spending can be a bit more value-neutral. It's not about her pissing away all your money (even if it really is), but about you as a couple working towards your shared financial goals.

>>454870
>>454872

I'm assuming you have a joint account? I've always been wary of doing that precisely because money can be one of those things that rips even the most compatible relationship in two if you're not on the same page with it. There's no argument quite like the "you spent all our fucking money!" argument.

Maybe it would be a good idea to have the joined account for the important things like bills and rent/mortgage etc, but portion out your personal spending money into individual accounts. She works so she has her own money, you work so you have yours. As a staunch male fisherperson, I've always encouraged my girlfriends to earn and spend their own damn money and not mine.

>>454873
She wants to move house in about four or five years, but I think she'd been banking on my earnings going up faster than they have done to be able to borrow more. At the minute I've got about a grand in my self-employed bank account I keep as a buffer and we'll have just over seven grand when our Help to Save account matures next year, but apart from that we'll be reliant on any equity in our current home.

>>454874
We've got a joint account because I've been the sole earner for most of the time we've had kids, so it made sense to pool everything into one.

She'll rationalise her spending by saying things like she needed to get an entire new wardrobe when she started working, which is fair enough but she keeps fucking spending. The real bugbear of mine is that we have National Trust membership, so because we've got in for 'free' she thinks that means we can spend thirty or forty quid on a mediocre meal in their cafe; even if I do prepare a picnic she'll still expect to go into the cafe for coffee and cake as a treat.

>>454875

I'm pretty sure there are apps and what have you nowadays, where you can just plug in everything you spend as you spend it, and it'll keep track for you. If you can get her to agree to use something like that along with you it might help her visualise and acknowledge the issue, which right now she really just probably doesn't.

I think a big part of the problem for people who lack self-control with money is that they only think in terms of "is the number in my bank right now bigger than the amount I need for this particular thing right now", and never in terms of "will I want to spend some of that next week when we go out for drinks, or will I fancy a takeaway the week after that, and if I spend this money now will I have enough for those". They just pull the trigger because they can, and the only limiting factor for them is when the number hits zero. I'm not suggesting she's taking advantage (although being naturally cynical that's how I usually perceive it) but if you just have a joined account and there's no individual sense of ownership and responsibility for where the money goes, it's easier for her to just mentally abstract it away and not feel concerned about it, and not acknowledge the consequence of her own decisions.

If you're keeping track of it all, and if you budget out a set amount of spending money each (again having separate personal accounts would help, even if you still share the overall amount equally), it'll help her put the 2+2 together of "I make the decision to buy this expensive thing, and then that results in being skint".

The thing is like otherlad said, you're extremely unlikely to get anywhere with it if you approach it as a simple matter of "you need to stop spending so much", but I reckon encouraging her to have a bit of financial independence would help her see the bigger picture in terms of your finances as a couple.

>>454876

>If you're keeping track of it all, and if you budget out a set amount of spending money each (again having separate personal accounts would help, even if you still share the overall amount equally), it'll help her put the 2+2 together of "I make the decision to buy this expensive thing, and then that results in being skint".

"Skint" isn't necessarily a meaningful concept for some people. If you've always been skint, skintness is just a fact of nature - you aren't used to planning for the future, because your basic living costs always swallow up all of your income. Conversely, if you've always been quite comfortable, "skint" just means waiting until payday to buy whatever pointless thing you want to buy, because you've got enough money coming in that you don't really have to make hard choices about your lifestyle.

I think it's always useful to frame things in terms of opportunity cost. Some people don't automatically think "If I spend my money on x, it means I can't spend my money on y". They fritter away their money in dribs and drabs, because each individual expense seems too small to worry about. Simple framings like "you can buy a takeaway coffee on your way to work every day, or if you save that money you can have a nice holiday every year" can really help to put those expenses in context.

What is your relationship like with your in-laws? I don't really have to deal with her dad because they have a strained relationship (>>/job/5948) but I find her mum infuriating, to the point that she's by far the worst aspect of my relationship with her daughter.

>>454877

>Simple framings like "you can buy a takeaway coffee on your way to work every day, or if you save that money you can have a nice holiday every year" can really help to put those expenses in context.


This. Say you go to work roughly 250 days out of every year. Give or take. Google says the average cost of one take away coffee in the UK is £3.40. That then adds up to 850 quid a year. By contrast, you can expect a cup of home brewed coffee to be around 20p, all costs included, which works out to 50 quid a year. So you end up saving £800. Which very literally buys you a week in Majorca, four stars all inclusive, with money left to spend.

>>455789

Forgot to subtract the average annual paid leave of 28 days. So you're probably looking at net savings of a little over 700 quid. Still buys you a four-star all inclusive holiday.

>>455787

Life hack: Get yourself a woman with a traumatic abusive childhood. Never have to meet her parents if she can't stand the sight of them either.

>>455796
I dunno, I think it depends on the baggage it leaves them with. If I did find myself single again in the future I'd definitely have on my checklist not to date anyone whose parents split up whilst they were still a child. Not sure what else would actually be on this checklist, to be honest, probably also to avoid anyone who had been in a serious relationship and was the one dumped rather than doing the dumping.

>>455796
Even better get yourself a Mrs whose parents have decided to spunk all their retirement money on running a pub, so you spend all of Christmas pissed up in their pub. It doesn't matter if they're insufferable pricks when you're too pissed to care.

>>455797

Yeah, but the sex is always best with the damaged ones.

Anyway I told myself the same last time I was single, but frankly, they're just too much my type. They attract me and I attract them. I don't think I could stand to be with a girl who's entirely mentally stable and healthy, because it would just make me feel like more of a hopeless mental case myself by comparison.

I know social media should be taken with a pinch of salt, but in the space of about a week a couple of women I know have made gushing anniversary posts when every single time I meet them they're complaining about their partners and have come extremely close to breaking up with them on several occasions. Maybe it's only the people in shitty relationships who feel the need to make posts like that.

Do most men actually want kids or do they have them primarily because their partners do?

I am mindful here I could easily be projecting because my brother and I grew up knowing we were a distant second in our dad's priorities to our mum, but I've been people watching recently and I have noticed when observing families that there's a small but definitely noticeable number of dads who act like they don't actually want to be a dad.

>>459832

I think most people, regardless of gender, only really want kinds because its just the accepted thing you do one your life hits a certain stage. Women have more of a biological urge than men, but on a rational conscious level that doesn't mean they want it any more strongly, I don't think. It just makes them feel more pressured into following social expectation.

And to be clear, I'm not saying they actively don't want kids but go along with it because society, I just mean that most people never even really think about if they do or don't. It's just one of those things they take for granted one of the boxes you tick in order to lead a proper adult life, like learning to drive and finding a stable career and all that. I think naturally a lot of people realise after the fact that maybe they would have preferred not to, or that the circumstances in which they did it weren't ideal, but by then it's too late and they just soldier on with it- And for women, there's at least that whole "I pushed you out of my cunt and my body will never be the same" sunk cost factor to keep them invested in keeping up the act.

It's like a lot of things really, what always amazes me and sometimes fills me with envy about other people's lives is how little they actually put conscious thought into. So many people just float along and end up falling into a life that was just laid out at their feet, taking the path of least resistance. Whereas I've had to fight tooth and claw for every scrap and still feel short changed. Maybe that's just egotism on my part though.

>>459832
Having kids works like weddings, suicides and pet ownership. You catch the bug from other people.

Specifically I think a lot of people decide to have kids by interacting with other people's children and realising they're not terrible at it or seeing that children, despite being massive pains in the arse, bring some joy to life.

>I have noticed when observing families that there's a small but definitely noticeable number of dads who act like they don't actually want to be a dad

How's a dad supposed to act?

>>459936
They're supposed to use their iPhone's haptic motor responsibly.

>>459937
Oh no. I'd all but forgotten about *that*.

>>459936
>How's a dad supposed to act?

As I said, I'm well aware I could be projecting here but it's when you pick up on little things like you'll see a mum sat with her kids on a bench and then when the dad catches them up he'll make the kids budge up so he can sit next to her because he can't spend those next five minutes stuck next to a child rather than his wife. That and just a general indifference towards them.

>>459937
>>459938
I'd also managed to forget about that. Won't our paedophilic prankster be out of prison by now? Christ, I've just made him sound like an Adam West Batman villain.

It turns out a couple I know who are always posting Instagram-style pictures together with their kids all over social media, making out like they're a super happy family living the perfect life, are divorcing. Funny that.

>>461366

Just more proof to the idea that the front people present to the outside world is usually just an elaborate fraud, and why you should never get caught up comparing yourself to other people based on what you see of their social media profiles and the like.

The people most concerned with the outward appearance of success and happiness are very often the most miserable with their life.