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>> No. 3223 Anonymous
18th February 2013
Monday 7:58 pm
3223 Bitcoins
Have any of you bought Bitcoins or spoken to anybody that has?

The underlying principle of removing the role of the banking industry from transactions (or at least limiting its influence) seems noble but it stinks of a giant scam IMO.
561 posts omitted. Last 50 posts shown. Expand all images.
>> No. 6986 Anonymous
27th May 2017
Saturday 6:13 pm
6986 spacer
>>6978
Still have a few litecoins knocking about, and they've bounced back into the double-digits in dollar valuation, which is nice.

(Anyone holding some of the other altcoins, this is your notification to cash some of them out.)
>> No. 6987 Anonymous
27th May 2017
Saturday 11:10 pm
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>>6986
>(Anyone holding some of the other altcoins, this is your notification to cash some of them out.)
Why?
>> No. 6988 Anonymous
28th May 2017
Sunday 6:05 pm
6988 spacer
>>6987
I'll treat that as a serious question despite the sage.

Now would be a good time to cash out some portion of any old altcoins you've got, because they're all getting a substantial boost in value that is likely short-lived due to the highly inflationary nature of most of them. When Bitcoin has spiked in value, historically, so have they. They have then proceeded to gradually decrease in value afterwards, as most people who mine them do so to convert into Bitcoin, which exhibits an inevitable downward pressure on their valuation vs. Bitcoin, and thus their dollar/pound valuation.

Plus, let's be serious, you were never going to do anything with your Dogecoins or Namecoins or whatever.
>> No. 6989 Anonymous
28th May 2017
Sunday 9:48 pm
6989 spacer
>>6988
You seem to know your shite.

I just did that and I need to convert my Bitcoins to fiat without tipping off the taxman. How did you go about doing that?
>> No. 6991 Anonymous
28th May 2017
Sunday 9:57 pm
6991 spacer
>>6989
>I need to convert my Bitcoins to fiat without tipping off the taxman.
Why, did you marry him and you're worried he's going to take it all in the divorce settlement or something?
>> No. 6993 Anonymous
28th May 2017
Sunday 10:14 pm
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>>6991
Something similar...
>> No. 6999 Anonymous
29th May 2017
Monday 4:28 pm
6999 spacer
>>6989
For fuck's sake. I typed out a huge response to this, and it got lost due to tiredness on my part. So I'll try and recap.

1/ Pay your taxes
2/ I didn't and haven't ever evaded the taxman, and that's the God's honest truth. I own next to no bitcoin, and never have; I mined a few altcoins after the Gox boom with my GPU and converted most to Bitcoin, but it was just pocket change. You're welcome to change that, you lucky bastard (6627c5ce). How did you get them in the first place, early miner?
3/ Evading taxes (and I want to make it clear I don't condone this and what follows is not a suggestion, it is a purely hypothetical discussion) on a big lump of bitcoin is troublesome. Getting to fiat is hard enough if you're doing it legit, if you want to do it with no paper/bank trail you're looking at getting on localbitcoins, selling in person for cash, and being really fucking careful about who you sell to (check their buyer feedback so you don't get robbed). If you've got the large amount we're talking about you'd obviously want to sell in smaller amounts. Always meet in public, in a cafe or something, and ideally bring a friend who looks like they can take care of themselves. Be aware that the government and police have clocked that criminals are using this method for drug money laundering and suchlike, so if your buyer mentions, at any point, even in passing/in allusion/as a joke, that they're going to do anything illegal with the bitcoin you're selling them then there's a real chance that they're actually law enforcement fishing around, and if you sell them any coin you will get slapped with a serious offence. I've heard of this happening to sellers in the US and UK.

I suppose you could buy some valuable items with resale value close to their retail value (you're on your own here) as there are lots of retailers who support Bitcoin now, and then sell them for cash or on ebay or something. You'd take a haircut but maybe not as much as you would if you declared.

If you want to get really paranoid about it, the techy solution would be to send roughly the largest amount a taxman wouldn't care about to one of the exchanges to cash out (check the /r/bitcoinuk subreddit and bitcointalk for the latest on which are currently support GBP transactions). Then some time later send the remainder off to some onion tumblers, punt it through an exchange or two that'll let you mess around with crypto-to-crypto exchange, convert to an altcoin, convert back again, then out to a new wallet. Do this in Tails and over TOR. That'll effectively rinse your coins, though you'll lose 5% or so to fees. If anyone asks, that bitcoin was stolen. Store the new wallet file as a paper wallet (laminate multiple copies and put them in multiple places), or put the wallet on some old PC hardware, e.g. small flash drives and old HDDs, again as many as possible, especially as both are apparently prone to dying if not switched on regularly. You could also use 7zip to AES-256 encrypt an archive with a long password, and upload that to various cloud services, again using Tails and Tor and obviously not using any identifiable details for the accounts. Then over the coming years fire up Tails/TOR again and do the same rinsing process (ideally halfway through the year for maximum deniability, and use different services), then send yourself some more bitcoin and cash out again (assuming that regulations haven't tightened by that point to the degree that it's impossible here). Each time you'll need to have some kind of halfway plausible story about what it was payment for ready just in case HMRC come snooping. Yes, this is a massive pain in the arse and you should probably just pay your taxes.

Of note, the reason that Bitcoin has spiked in value is that certain countries are starting to tighten the screws on personal holdings and transfers (South Korea, China, and Japan, I think - at least, they're the places that Bitcoin have hit $3K per coin recently), and others are cracking down on high value cash transactions, India being a good example by removing 500 and 1000 Rupee notes. It is likely that this will continue, and occur in other places, which means that demand for Bitcoin is likely to remain relatively stable or increase. If this is the case then it should help make the Bitcoin market less thin, and Bitcoin more stable in price, making Gox-like crashes less likely and, in theory, making it safer to hold Bitcoin.

The counterpoint to the above optimism is that there's an embarrassing crypto-nerd bitch fight occurring behind the scenes regarding the software/protocol, it's a complex mess that I suspect nobody here but me is interested in hearing about (I can go into it, if someone wants another wall of text) but the short of it is that right now the Bitcoin network is currently more than a bit clunky. One of the reasons that e.g. Litecoin has risen in value is that it has extremely fast confirmation times and low transfer fees (minutes and you can send for pennies if you're prepared to wait a little longer); by contrast, for Bitcoin it can take hours for your transaction to be picked up by a miner even if your fee is a quid. There's something of a civil war going on and if things really go south it could get pretty ugly, to the point that Bitcoin's undisputed hegemony over all other cryptocurrencies could actually dissolve. If you're holding, in the long-term you should keep an occasional eye on bitcoin's market share vs. other cryptocurrencies.
>> No. 7000 Anonymous
29th May 2017
Monday 6:01 pm
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>>6999
The one thing that people in the community have said time and again is that if Bitcoin is to be taken seriously then it would help massively if people didn't insist on doing things that perpetuate the stereotype of it being something you only use if you're doing something wrong.
>> No. 7001 Anonymous
29th May 2017
Monday 6:12 pm
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>>7000

The problem is, once you take away all the illegal and immoral uses of bitcoin, there's no value left except as a novelty.
>> No. 7002 Anonymous
29th May 2017
Monday 6:35 pm
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>>7001
Never been to Shoreditch, I take it?
>> No. 7003 Anonymous
30th May 2017
Tuesday 5:57 pm
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>>7001
I agree, mostly. I find it interesting primarily from a technical perspective, but the way that its design encourages or critiques social and economic ideas is also fascinating. In its current form it's quite limited, but it's still remarkably quick and cost-effective for international money transfers and remittance. You can lose 10% (or in some cases, significantly more) via traditional channels, Western Union etc, and it'll take days or weeks if you're lucky, months if not. The current transaction fees may be £1, and the transfer may take a few hours, which is shit by cryptocurrency standards, but show me an international money transfer company that will send ten grand's worth of wages to the other side of the world in that time and for that fee. Of course, you need to use an exchange to convert it to your local currency, but even with the most costly exchanges the savings can still be enormous. This potential lives and dies by the availability of local exchanges and government approval, which shifts all the time. Russia were recently making noises about accepting and regulating Bitcoin, whilst they've prohibited its use in the past. Japan is moving to regulate it, permitting exchanges so long as they submit to yearly audits and have standard know-your-customer style checks. Ecuador banned it outright back in 2014 (though apparently its use has steadily grown there since).

Then there's blockchain tech, smart contracts etc. I think their promise is overblown, but a great many big financial institutions are pouring money into research and development of the technology. I usually end up baffled as their projects almost always involve a private blockchain, and a private blockchain is just an over-complicated database. I've yet to read a use scenario that could not be achieved without all the blockchain overhead, but IBM and many other big names seem to think there's something special in there, so maybe I'm the fool. The most compelling argument I've heard, from a supposed IT technician at a big-name financial institution, is that they needed a "revolutionary new technology" to come along and finally convince the suits who don't understand the first thing about the nuts and bolts of fintech (but have heard of this Bitcoin/blockchain thing and don't want to miss the boat) that they need to replace their ageing DEC-mainframe-system-emulated-on-Itanium, that is incompatible with all the other bank's systems, and instead have a standardised blockchain that's interoperable between banks and other financial institutions. Back in reality, upper management meddling will likely mean that they all wind up with a bunch of incompatible systems and end more or less back where they started. The engineers and consultants get paid handsomely though, so at least somebody benefits.

(There was one particularly amusing paper, and I'm fairly sure it was from the Bank of England, that proposed not only a private blockchain but also the bank keeping the users' wallets, to protect users from fraud. Seems familiar...)
>> No. 7004 Anonymous
30th May 2017
Tuesday 6:04 pm
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>>6999
>>7003

What virtual coin should I buy to make loadsamoney?
>> No. 7005 Anonymous
30th May 2017
Tuesday 6:31 pm
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>>7003
>but show me an international money transfer company that will send ten grand's worth of wages to the other side of the world in that time and for that fee
Somali money transfer shops. You can send a grand right this second, and somehow it ends up in someone's phone in Somalia. I don't even understand how this all works, but I was reading about it and found it fascinating. They don't even carry cash around. They have money in their phones and shite.

Also other things like their use of solar panels and how it is cheaper in Somalia than it is here, is all very impressive.
>> No. 7006 Anonymous
30th May 2017
Tuesday 6:34 pm
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>>7004
They all seem to be tanking right now. I don't follow it too much, so I'll let someone else spoon-feed you. Don't be a victim to a pump and dump.
>> No. 7007 Anonymous
30th May 2017
Tuesday 6:59 pm
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>>7004
Whatever you can buy on a time travel trade at a lower price than it is now. BTC is on a high and so the halfway serious alts are all overvalued as a consequence. Anything else is probably either useless or a scam of some sort.
>> No. 7008 Anonymous
30th May 2017
Tuesday 7:36 pm
7008 spacer
>>7005

A lot of traditional banking methods are haram, so the eskimo world has a completely parallel banking system. The money transfer system used by many eskimos, especially Somalis, is called Hawala. It works on pure trust. I give a broker a wad of cash and he gives me a password. I give the password to my foreign friend, who then gives that password to his local broker and is paid out an equal sum of cash. The two brokers make a note of the debt between them, which will either be cancelled out eventually through the course of trade or settled through payment in kind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala

TransferWise are a British FinTech startup offering what is essentially a modernised version of Hawala. They have recently been valued at over a billion quid, even though most British people have never heard of them. They're miles cheaper than using Bitcoin.

https://transferwise.com/
>> No. 7148 Anonymous
15th September 2017
Friday 8:37 pm
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IT HAS ALL GONE TO HELL LADS.
>> No. 7149 Anonymous
15th September 2017
Friday 8:49 pm
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>>7148
Because the Chinese have suddenly banned all the exchanges and told them they have to send all their data to the government. Think its going to go a bit further too...
>> No. 7150 Anonymous
15th September 2017
Friday 8:53 pm
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>>7149
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/59db3a/three-of-chinas-biggest-bitcoin-exchanges-are-shutting-down
>> No. 7151 Anonymous
15th September 2017
Friday 10:07 pm
7151 spacer
>>7148
A year ago they were going for $600, and April of this year they were still under ~$1K. It's been quite a ride. Wall Street showed up and day traders are arbitraging and algo sharking the fuck out of the exchanges, as there's effectively no regulation - they can pump and dump with impunity, and the market is thin enough that it can be pulled around with relatively little money. The result is massive price volatility, especially in the altcoin markets.

For some perspective: every ten minutes or so, 12.5 bitcoins are created. That means that at peak (around $5K each), ~$62K in bitcoin was being pumped out each block. Most of the time these coins go to massive mining farms with hundreds or thousands of dedicated mining boxes doing nothing but crunching SHA256, 24/7. The overhead costs of buying/maintaining hardware and the colossal electricity bills mean that most of the coins mined have to be sold. For context, that's something like £40K that was being dumped onto the market every ten fucking minutes. Even at this "crash" at $3.6k, that's ~$6 million in bitcoin created every day. This should create massive downward pressure on the price. Rather than dipping, over the last six months, it's soared.

It's astonishing that there hasn't been a massive crash, and the only explanation is that people with extremely deep pockets are loading up; how long can this go on? Given the lack of actual utility of Bitcoin, I can't see it as anything other than a bubble waiting to burst.
>> No. 7154 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 12:29 am
7154 spacer
>>7151
>a bubble waiting to burst

It's tulip bulbs all over again. The market is being propped up by the Chinese. They've just come down very hard on the Exchanges, which is going to dent the flow of real money into the system, unless you're a miner. Without that flow of suckers money, maybe being a miner isn't as attractive. It's kind of obvious where this is going now.

I don't own any before you accuse me of ramping

1. Before 20 September 6pm, exchanges shall come up with a detailed risk-free clearing plan, and send this plan to the office. Exchanges shall deal with their claims and liabilities properly, and insure that investors’ funds and virtual currencies are safe.

2. Before 20 September 6pm, exchanges shall determine a bank account, which will be used for depositing user funds. All other accounts in banks and other non-bank payment service providers shall be canceled and reported to the Business Management Department of People’s Bank of China.

3. Before 15 September midnight, exchanges shall publish closing announcements, and announce a schedule to stop the trading of all virtual currencies. New user registration shall be stopped immediately after the announcement.

4. Shareholders, controllers, executives, and core financial and technical staff of exchanges shall cooperate fully with authorities during the clearing, while staying in Beijing.

5. Exchanges shall report their developments daily to local authorities before the clearing is completed.

6. Exchanges shall save all user trading and holding data, and send it to local authorities immediately in DVDs.

The document is signed: The office of the Leading Group of Beijing Internet Financial Risks Remediation, Sept. 15, 2017

https://www.coindesk.com/document-lists-closure-steps-for-chinas-bitcoin-exchanges/
>> No. 7155 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 12:23 pm
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>>7154
>It's tulip bulbs all over again
Is it? The tulip bulb thing was almost entirely speculation. I don't agree with >>7151 that it has no actual utility. It may not be useful for the average consumer with a high street bank account, but that doesn't mean nobody has a use for it.

And even if the current price is overinflated by speculation, it's entirely possible that 20 years from now, the true value based on utility could be 10x higher than the speculative current price.
>> No. 7156 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 12:24 pm
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>>7154
There's also the looming threat of another fork with segwit2x, some time in November. Bitcoin Cash has made things unstable (huge swings in hashrate when BCH is more valuable to mine than BTC), having a third contentious fork could be a disaster. It's also a fork with no replay attack protection; it's literally a hard fork of Bitcoin proper, not an altcoin like Bitcoin Cash effectively is.
>> No. 7157 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 12:26 pm
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>>7155
Apologies for not being clearer. I didn't mean to say that it has no utility at all, just that it currently doesn't provide anything that justifies the ridiculous prices we're seeing.
>> No. 7158 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 12:57 pm
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>>7154
>The market is being propped up by the Chinese.
Seems like that ended much earlier in 2017.
>> No. 7159 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 2:50 pm
7159 spacer
>>7158
Yeah, CNY accounts for less than 20%, so it shouldn't make such a great difference.
>> No. 7160 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 3:22 pm
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>>7158
Why so abruptly?
>> No. 7161 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 3:22 pm
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>>7158

Why the sudden drop and the spike in Japanese Yen trading?
>> No. 7162 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 3:45 pm
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>>7161
>>7160
I don't know why Japan spiked, but China dropped apparently because of a ban on exchanges trading without fees:

https://www.coindesk.com/chinas-big-three-bitcoin-exchanges-end-no-fee-policy/
>> No. 7163 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 3:51 pm
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>>7161
Monacoin spiked at the same time. I'd guess it's just word of mouth amongst Japanese day traders and the like. The Korean markets went pretty crazy as well - trading way above Western prices. Gold rush mentality.

As for the Chinese, there had been rumblings from their government about regulating/banning trading for some time. I'd like to see the chart up to the current day, to see if they got back in during the period it quadrupled in value.

It's interesting that they don't show roubles, as Russian trading has also been pretty substantial. They're also launching a $100M mining operation, run by guys high up in the Russian government: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-08/russia-launches-100-million-bitcoin-mining-operation
>> No. 7164 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 4:40 pm
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>>7161
>>7162
Is it really a spike? Remember the chart is proportionate, if China had continued trading at 80% volume it would look something like this.
>> No. 7165 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 5:08 pm
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>>7164

I knew that the chart was proportionate but without knowing the history of what changed that wasn't enough data to extrapolate the reasons why the Yen suddenly jumped. Now I know that Yuan trading disappeared practically over night that explains it. Thanks
>> No. 7166 Anonymous
16th September 2017
Saturday 6:34 pm
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>>7163
>It's interesting that they don't show roubles, as Russian trading has also been pretty substantial.
Currently around 0.1% of global trade volume
>> No. 7167 Anonymous
17th September 2017
Sunday 1:23 am
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>>7166
Hmm. I wonder if Russians prefer to deal in dollars, given the fragility of the rouble.
>> No. 7168 Anonymous
17th September 2017
Sunday 1:35 am
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>>7167

Any international trade worth talking about is done in dollars. It's why the dollar is still the gold standard it is.
>> No. 7169 Anonymous
19th September 2017
Tuesday 1:37 pm
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>>7158
Most of the mining is still in China and it's rumoured that's about to be banned too. How that effects price I don't know but it doesn't seem too positive to have all that capital outlay flushed down the shitter.
>> No. 7170 Anonymous
19th September 2017
Tuesday 1:42 pm
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>>7169
>Most of the mining is still in China and it's rumoured that's about to be banned too. How that effects price I don't know but it doesn't seem too positive to have all that capital outlay flushed down the shitter.
Just think of all those GPUs being re-boxed and turning up on ebay and aliexpress.
>> No. 7171 Anonymous
19th September 2017
Tuesday 3:13 pm
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>>7170

The commercial BTC miners all use special-purpose ASIC chips, so that'll all get scrapped when it's no longer useful. ETH and some altcoins are still mined on GPUs.
>> No. 7172 Anonymous
22nd September 2017
Friday 1:08 pm
7172 spacer
It's been three or four years since anyone with any sense mined with a GPU (botnets excluded). Even the first ASICs were a couple of orders of magnitude more power-efficient. The GPUs then went to mining Litecoin, Dogecoin etc. at which point there was a rise of "multipools" that auto-switched between whichever Scrypt coin was the most valuable at the time, and then Scrypt ASICs came along and mostly wiped out the GPUs again. Eth so far seems to be ASIC-resistant.

There are other SHA256 coins (most notably, the recent creation of Bitcoin Cash, the result of the interminable civil war that's been going on over the ridiculous "block size debate"), but no doubt they'd tumble in price, along with all the other altcoins, if Bitcoin proper did.

I doubt that Bitcoin mining will be banned outright in China. The government tend to be open to new and evolving business opportunities (and Bitcoin mining has been very profitable in that regard), but they want control of the flow of money. This can be achieved fairly easily by making all Bitcoin mining and selling state-monitored/controlled, i.e. they're going to regulate the shit out of it. If I had a hundred thousand dollars of mining equipment, I wouldn't scrap it, I'd move it or sell it. There are plenty of other places in the world with cheap electricity and plenty of eager buyers for cheap mining equipment. It's worth noting that even when Bitcoin crashed post-Gox from ~$1k down to $100 or so, the network hashrate didn't decrease; in fact, it carried on increasing. If Bitcoin continues to drop in price, those invested in mining it will probably hang on for quite a while.
>> No. 7173 Anonymous
22nd September 2017
Friday 5:49 pm
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>>7172

>I doubt that Bitcoin mining will be banned outright in China.

The Party are more than happy to turn surplus hydroelectric power into foreign currency. Their gripe is with people using BTC to evade capital controls.
>> No. 7174 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 10:57 pm
7174 spacer
Lads,

I fancy giving BTC a minor go, purely because I reckon blockchain currency, regardless of the particular name, is porbably going to become a de-facto part of life sooner or later. Can someone furnish me with a no-frills guide?
>> No. 7175 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:24 pm
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>>7174
>no-frills guide
For buying or mining?
>> No. 7176 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:39 pm
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>>7174
It is so difficult to buy, and even worse to convert back to pounds.
>> No. 7177 Anonymous
29th September 2017
Friday 11:46 pm
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>>7174

The blockchain is fucking shite. Imagine if you had to staple a receipt to a fiver every time it got spent. It wouldn't take long before every fiver was impossibly unwieldy. That's a blockchain.
>> No. 7178 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 1:18 am
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>>7174

Just go to bitbargain and pay via bank transfer. Easy as pie.

>>7176

You convert into drugs you numpty.
>> No. 7179 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 3:06 am
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>>7178
I want to buy an overpriced house to rent out to poor people.
>> No. 7180 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 3:07 am
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>>7178
>bitbargain
Do they need your passport and 12 years worthy of details?
>> No. 7181 Anonymous
30th September 2017
Saturday 1:47 pm
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>>7180

Only if you want to go through the KYC kerfuffle and raise your buying limits significantly. If you just want to mess about a bit it's fairly anonymous, or was when I signed up. Just make sure you sign up with your real name, the same one as on your bank account, otherwise the vendors won't accept your payments.
>> No. 7185 Anonymous
24th October 2017
Tuesday 12:22 pm
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I missed the Bitcoin Gold cut off with my BTC sitting in Coinbase. Sad times.
>> No. 7186 Anonymous
28th October 2017
Saturday 12:43 pm
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>>7185
Segwit2X fork is coming up and has the potential to really fuck with things. Keep your bitcoin in your own wallet anyway, keeping them in Coinbase etc means they aren't your bitcoins - whoever controls the private key is the owner, regardless of what the site promises. (Gox is the obvious example but there are too many more to list.)

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