>>14323
This must be bait, shurely.

So hire a cleaner to come over when it's your turn on the rota.

>>14325
Exactly. Are you dense OP?

Go fuck yourself, Tarquin

>>14325
>>14326
I have, despite their protestations. I simply cannot understand their mentality, though. No doubt they will try to obstruct the cleaner and then bitch to me about it afterwards.

Sense of independence, which the only bit you've got is your wallet.

>>14330
>I am free
>to do unnecessary household chores

Clean the fucking house Dave. We're not wasting money paying for someone to do your house-work.

>>14332
But Elektra, I'd be the one paying for the cleaner. You'd be free to continue frittering away your meagre earnings on yet more shoes and cheap wine.

>>14330
I don't understand what your point is - are you suggesting he should cancel the cleaner and do it himself just to prove that he can?

A while ago, I was made to do a time management course at work. About half the group listed domestic chores as something that takes up too much of their time. The trainer's advice was "hire a cleaner". A good professional cleaner will do a better job than you in less time than you.

In my eyes, it is slightly pathetic to be so averse to a little cleaning that you're prepared to organise and pay someone else to do it for you. With that said, it's your money, and it's entirely your prerogative what you spend it on, so I reckon your flatmates are probably being a bunch of uppity cunts. Have you done something else to piss them off, or are they just contrary by nature?

Do you work particularly long hours at the moment?

>>14353

It's really, really cheap for what they do. For £20 a month my house is kept spotless, and as I work 16+ hour days it's worth every penny to not have to clean the bath or whatever on my day off.

>>14354
>16+ hour days

You're probably going to call me a lazy studentlad but seriously, fuck doing that. Add 8 hours sleep and you've got your entire day complete without even considering food, hobbies, social activities etc.

>>14358

You don't often sleep 8 hours a night on that schedule. Plus I was being a little dramatic, I'd say on average I work closer to 12 hours/day. And if you enjoy what you're doing, it's not really work.

>>14360
I'd be falling asleep at the desk on anything less than a solid 8. I can't imagine anything that I enjoy doing enough to do it for 12-16 hours straight.

>>14358
Not quite as harsh as him, but I work 11 hours a day minimum. I maximize free time by living as centrally as I can get and not throwing away time doing housework.

If I can knock 2.5 hours a week of housework off by getting a cleaner, and save 30 minutes each way on commuting, I get back 1.5 hours each weekday, which isn't too shabby.

>>14360
>>14371
What jobs are you doing on such silly hours and how badly are you doing them that you can't finish in 8?

>>14372

I'm one of the resident cheflads. So it's not like I have a quantifiable amount of work. It can get rather sisyphean really. Though these days I do spend a lot more time sat on my arse in an office, and I find that utterly miserable. I don't feel like I'm contributing in any way to the cause unless I'm actually making something with my hands. Different strokes I suppose.

>>14361

If your work is involved enough, and you're always busy with very little downtime, the hours fly by. And I get paid hourly so it's really not all that bad. Most days I start at noon, by the time I've looked at the clock again it's midnight.

>>14372

As an IT consultant I regularly worked 10 hours a day as a minimum. When onsite with clients I'd often work 8 hours a day onsite, plus travel, plus time at home to go over emails, conflab with colleagues and so on. Having to be in, say, Hull or Leads by 9am from a London office sometimes meant waking up at 5am. Sometimes only having got home at around midnight from another country.

When things went wrong or other consultants had days off or sick days, or when projects went right up to the wall I could work 16-18 hours a day. The longest I ever worked in one jag was 96 hours without leaving the house, I ended up wearing sunglasses in front of my laptop because my eyes hurt so much. Once, due to time zones and travelling between three continents in three days, I entirely forget where I was and how long I'd been there, leaving my boss to explain my odd behaviour to angry Russian customs officers.

My daily life involved eight Redbulls for breakfast, along with whatever go faster pills I had to hand followed by strong coffee all day.

I'm already totally burned out at age thirty and will no doubt be dead by my 60s but I've now got a 50% stake in a company worth several million on paper, which I suppose means something to someone.

tl;dr - not everyone is happy pushing paper for eight hours a day at 25k/year.

>>14389
I still maintain that if you're regularly having to do more than 8 hours in a day in that line of work, someone's not doing their job properly. I know that we have people at work who do late nights, but they're away from base and so being in the office is perhaps better than being in the hotel.

>>14389
>which I suppose means something to someone
But does it mean something to you? Because that's the only justification for going through all that, but the way you phrased it suggests you don't care.

>>14389
>My daily life involved eight Redbulls for breakfast, along with whatever go faster pills I had to hand followed by strong coffee all day.

Is it just me or is this an absolutely abhorrent way to live? I'm already dependent on a few cups of tea to do work throughout the day but this level of caffeine dependence is uncomfortably expensive and unhealthy. plus I'd much rather take some nose candy for the same effects

>>14392
No, not good. Avoid at all costs.

Anyway OP I'd usually say they're probably not comfortable with a foreign body, as it were, around their rooms. I certainly wouldn't be.

>>14392

Yeah, like I said that was just for breakfast and it was awful, no matter what way I wrap it up. Obviously the caffeine was just an adjunct to whatever speed/modafinil/bodybuilding stimulants I'd managed to get my hands on that week.

>>14390

Perhaps you're right. But I've worked in a few small companies and in a few small teams within big companies where you either have to go pedal to the metal or you won't get things done. While I agree that it shows a major organisational disorganisation, it's also fairly representative of the sort of miracle work that highly-paid staff are expected to perform on a daily basis. I think what I'm trying to say is that that kind of work schedule, to a greater or lesser extent, has been fairly representative of my entire career. Friends of mine from the states who worked on wall street either in software dev or directly on the trading floor reported the same sort of thing, so I doubt it's just a London thing. I think mainly no one's going to pay you a £150k salary for working a strict eight hours a day like a robot. And even if they did, success means far more than a number in a bank account.

Sage for rambling.

>>14392>>14393
I'm fairly sure I've heard that 8 cans of red bull can kill someone.

I feel like shit after drinking two cans of monster and when the caffeine high has ended

>>14398
Also I may add I drank a shitload of sugar free coke as a kid up until I was about 15. I drank nothing but the stuff. Eventually I got to the point where I was getting headaches daily. So I stopped and started drinking fruit drinks and water. Now for whatever reason I get headaches anything with caffeine no matter the quantity. I'm a studentlad who only works on a Saturday for about 6-8 hours and I don't drink coffee or tea at work.

I feel tired all the time despite only working a maximum of 8 hours and going in once or twice a week at college. I am the sort of person I imagine most of you will hate. How dare I feel tired when I do bugger all compared to you people who work 80 hours a week.

I think the caffeine broke me. I'm only awake because I smoke cigarettes. Doesn't help what I'm studying should lead me to jobs where I'll have to deal with these sort of hours at work.

>>14399
As a fellow studentlad I know exactly what you mean. I think that not doing much physically puts you in the situation where you feel not quite awake all day but not very tired late at night. I'm still absolutely dreading working even 8 hours a day, when I currently struggle with a couple of lectures, few hours of study and maybe a supervision or lab session.

My commute involves cycling 20 miles a day and I work a fairly physically intensive job, and I'm rarely tired. If you're constantly tired working a few hours a week, something is wrong with you, be it your diet, depression, CFS, or whatever. Go see a doctor.

>>14409

But then they might remove my benefits...

>>14399

It sounds like it might be a medical thing. Or, just eat more veggies.

you lazy scrote

>>14409
Have you ever thought that different people have different metabolisms, sleep requirements etc.? It really annoys me when people assume "I find x easy, so should everyone!"

>>14419

If you can't stay awake for eight hours at a time there's something wrong with you.

>>14419
People will always assume what is true for themselves is true for everyone else. Our default setting as humans is that the way in which we subjectively experience reality is the way reality objectively is. Eg, "I've had bad experiences of white people, therefore all white people are bad". It's an intrinsically self centered world view and one which is hard to shake off. It's also often the cause of the majority of arguments on here and in general. "My experience of objective reality is more valid than yours and can be applied to everyone" else etc etc.
Or maybe that is just my own biased perception.

Don't really know why I'm going off on this philosophical tangent in this thread.

>>14421

It's also often a case of "I can do something you can't, so I'm going to tell everyone that in a way that makes it sound like I'm not being a dick"

Oh, you don't earn £60k a year? That's odd, because I've found it pretty simple.

>>14422
Yes indeed.

"You're on the dole? What a lazy good for nothing idiot you must be! I've never had to take handouts!"

Obviously never accounting for the almost infinite amount of possible scenarios and circumstances that are always different for everyone. It's just more of a general point though really, it's why I rarely get involved in genuine cunt offs on here. It's just people assuming their subjective experience is applicable to all. I think it's just our default setting and it takes quite a lot of effort to get out of that way of thinking.

Completely going off on a tangent now but I saw someone had posted about a couple of Robert Anton Wilson books in /lit/ I think. He talks incredibly eloquently about people's "reality tunnels" and how you can change your own and all that sort of stuff. I think he's been quite influential on my own way of thinking, as in taking a pretty much agnostic stance on almost everything. I'd recommend his stuff in general, there's quite a few of his talks on youtube that are a pleasure to listen to as well.

Anyway, I'm just blahblahing now.

>>14421

No m8. Feeling tired all the time for no reason is a symptom of disease. If >>14399 said that his eyeballs were yellow and his piss was brown, would you still take a relativistic argument, or would you tell him to go to the doctor?

He might be anaemic, he might be depressed, it might be any number of things, but we do know that being constantly tired is not just a personality quirk but something that warrants medical intervention.

>>14372

I work 11 hour shifts 4 days a week on minimum wage at a 'spoons kitchen.

It fucking killed me at first especially since it was preceded by 9 months on the dole not moving, but I'm used to it now.

>>14429
Hiring a cleaner is not a matter of being tired. It's a matter of having better things to do in the couple of hours each day you don't spend eating, drinking, sleeping, working or commuting. You can outsource the arduous bits of your cleaning, but you can't outsource family. Much as anyone wishes they could, you almost certainly don't have anywhere near enough money to pay someone to handle your mother-in-law.

>>14419
>>14421
>>14422
If you're tired after working for 8 hours a week, you should seriously think about what aspects of your lifestyle are causing it, or, failing that, go and see a doctor. If your "metabolism, sleep requireents etc." are that fucked up there is something wrong with you.

It's nothing at all like saying "Oh, you don't earn £60k a year? That's odd, because I've found it pretty simple". As a species, we are biologically constructed to be able to exert ourselves to a certain degree, for obvious reasons. A healthy person does not feel tired all the time.

>>14435
Yeah apologies if I've kind of derailed the thread a bit with my nonsense. I was just kind of talking in general terms about people's cognitive biases and stuff.

I'd agree if you're constantly tired for no particular reason there's probably something underlying that and it would be good to see a doctor.

>>14435
Christ are you really telling me that you think everyone processes food at the exact same rate with the exact same usable energy? That everyone benefits from a set period asleep in the exact same way? Sure you can draw arbitrary lines of what counts as being unwell or not but clearly that is just trying to categorise what is a continuous spectrum of abilities. Some people can sleep 6 hours a night and feel fine, some people can not eat for 12 hours and be fine. Some people can't That doesn't make you 'diseased'.

>>14437
>Christ are you really telling me that you think everyone processes food at the exact same rate with the exact same usable energy?
Nope.

>That everyone benefits from a set period asleep in the exact same way?
Nope.


>Sure you can draw arbitrary lines of what counts as being unwell or not but clearly that is just trying to categorise what is a continuous spectrum of abilities
Obviously there is a continuous spectrum of abilities, but you're effectively saying that people and the end of that spectrum with extremely limited ability should shrug and say "Well I guess I'm just going to be exhausted all the time for the rest of my life!" rather than examine what might be causing it in order to increase their quality of life. I cannot comprehend why anybody would take that approach.

>Some people can sleep 6 hours a night and feel fine, some people can not eat for 12 hours and be fine. Some people can't That doesn't make you 'diseased'
I never said it did. Being permanently tired and not being able to do 8 hours of work a week without being exhausted, however, means that you aren't adjusting your lifestyle to accomadate those requirements you just listed (be it eating smaller meals more often, getting more sleep, etc.), or are suffering from something like hypothyroidism or CFS.

>>14439

I once went to a doctor because I was tired all the time and it was affecting my career, she was very aggressive and skeptical of my claims and demanded quite rudely to know why I hadn't reported this in all the time I have had it - it's a combination of the intense depression I had which ended up with me not even arsed about cleaning myself, never mind sorting out sleeping problems, and general fear of the doctor and the idea that the doctor might not believe me.

She gave me bloods and told me that if they showed up fine then I would go to a psychiatrist to see if it is a mental thing, I think it is so I was okay with that. On the date they said I can find out my results I asked my mum to call up the doctors to ask (I was at work) and the receptionist said "Yep, we got them, they come out as fine" and that's it. It's been nearly a year and I'm still too scared to go to that doctors any more. She made me feel like I was a liar and that I was looking for a reason to go on the sick. I just wanted to get better. I am saging.

I arrived home today to find a note had been pushed through the letterbox:

>CAN YOU PLEASE FACEBOOK ME ASAP TO LET ME KNOW SOMEONE IS IN?

>I don't have my key and my phone is dead, I'm very annoyed someone has suddenly decided to start locking the door. Fine if youre worried and want to start locking it during the day, but as no one has been anal about doing this before, please let us know we need to start taking our keys (as this was never a problem, got out of the habit). I now won't be able to eat until after my rehearsal which finishes at 9pm as I have no money so PLEASE remember that everyone needs to know things like this.

This note made me feel guilty for locking the door when I go out.

I can't wait to never see this person again.

>>14534
>This note made me feel guilty for locking the door when I go out.
Don't be. It was their own dumb fault for not taking their keys.

>>14534

If their phone is dead and they are out of the house then how will they read the facebook message?

>>14545
With their wifi-enabled Facebook Rift, obviously.

>>14534
I'm surprised that anyone would consider it normal to not lock the door on leaving the house unattended. If you're living with others it's not just your stuff that you're protecting but that of everyone you live with, which I assumed to be common practice. Who the fuck goes out without keys anyway?

>>14550
I don't think anyone on this board is actually going to side with that housemate, who is clearly an idiot and seems to want to try and blame others for their thinking it's okay to leave an empty house unlocked.

Stop playing music at 2 in the fucking morning.

Stop eating the entire jar of my peanut butter and leaving it in the cupboard, then not even having the good grace to say sorry or look ashamed when you confirm that it was you that ate it. How can you not realise that eating other people's food is a distinct fucking no-no?

Stop being so fucking useless that I now have to keep toilet paper in my room because you absolutely won't contribute, and left the empty roll on the holder.

Stop fucking singing all the time.

Get out of my home.

>>15797
Are you an undergrad? If so, it's kind of usual to have people who haven't ripened mentally.

>>14554
I leave my house unlocked 24/7. But then I don't live in a shithole.

>>15823

Yes, because everyone knows that the only kind of people in the world who steal things are the dole scum and the lumpenproletariat.

When you make a whinge thread on /emo/ about how some nasty person has stolen all of your middle class gadgets and toys I'm going to have an internal chuckle. At your expense. You fucking plebe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9005012/So-what-drives-a-celebrity-to-steal.html

>>15823

This posho twat lived in a shared flat with me, and she never locked the door as her logic deduced that it's safe, someone else will do it and "whats there to steal?"

I laughed when her riding crop went missing.

>>15824
What's your problem?

>>15826
He's taking it a bit far but people who leave stuff begging to be stolen do annoy me a bit, mostly because my own paranoia could never allow it. Whenever I see people leave bikes locked up in such a way that most/all of the bike is easily stealable (i.e front wheel locked by shitty ribbon cable or even worse bike locked to nothing but itself) I almost want to steal it to teach them a lesson.

>>15823
The people who live on shitholes tend to break into posher areas.

The smart ones anyway. Shithole burglaries are because there's a good opportunity and it's spontaneous. The burglaries in posher areas are planned with the burglars scoping the area out.

At work someone stole an opened bottle of baileys that had been sitting in the fridge from a long gone Christmas party. Staff badges have been stolen, stationary has been stolen and even the odd bit of stock has been stolen all from staff members rather than customers.

People are dicks and it's your own fault if you don't lock your shit down. Don't even lend anything out unless it's a cheap biro or something you won't mind losing because some people are dickish kleptomaniacs.

>>15822
He's older than me. And I will be the first to admit that I am far from ripe mentally, but eating an entire jar of someone else's peanut butter? And then leaving the jar in the cupboard. Empty. And then not even apologising for eating it all or offering to buy a replacement. It's like the thought didn't even occur to him that that shit just does not fly in a shared house. He's shared a house in this country with other 20 somethings for a year before moving in here. How can he not know?

There are other things that lead me to think he's a few sandwiches short of a picnic too - he was trying to tell me about auras and reiki when I made the mistake of joining him for a fag in the garden the other day. Still, I'd like to think that even the most flagrant of evidence-refuting hippie knows that eating someone else's food in the way he did is just entirely beyond the fucking pale.

I'm very tempted to be entirely petty and eat the entirety of some of his food and see how he likes that in his pipe, but he doesn't buy anything I'd want to eat. Cunt.

>>15829
Have you actually tried speaking with him? From what I gather, you haven't - so get to it before writing things to strangers.

"Mate, I noticed you ate XYZ, this is not on - please respect my stuff" Something to that affect, be nice, courteous, etc.

>>15826

I get cranky in the wee hours when I'm awake involuntarily. I apologise for being a cunt.

>>15830
Obviously I have. I've mentioned his complete lack of comprehension when asking him why he ate my food. I've asked him to not play music after 10pm, to not leave food all over the kitchen, to take out the bins, and then nothing changes. I'm not sure how I can get these concepts through his head. I passed the point of trying to politely point out how not to behave in a shared house quite a few conversations ago - there's very little point in nagging at this stage.

And this is /101/. This is precisely where we are meant to write things to strangers, so don't even try that utterly redundant line here. I've stamped my forms and put them in the right box, and now I would like to bitch about it like everyone else moaning about their useless fucking housemates in the useless fucking housemates thread. If I wanted advice, I'd go to /emo.

>>15844
Alright, calm down. Didn't realise you tried to talk to him.

Any chance of moving out? Chat with the landbaron? Police? Violence?

My housemates keep throwing my copies of The Economist subscription away. They either assume it's junk mail or are staunchly anti-free trade. Either way it's like they're throwing a fiver away each time they do it and its vexatious behaviour.

>>15846
I've met many economists. They're all broadly the same, putting forward an air of being human with all the necessary sports and extra-curricular CV filler but once you actually get to know them they're like cardboard cut outs of people, programmed to live amongst us and do people things but not truly among us.

>>15846
Your housemates are top lads, the Economist is fucking dire.

>>15846 >>15848

Pretty sure it's mostly online for free anyway. Why is money being thrown away with such fancy-free abandon?

>>15847
Yeah I know that feeling.

>>15846
Hopefully the latter. Good on them.

>>15848

But it's not.

>>15849

You need a subscription to view most of their content, and besides I prefer reading the print copy on my lunch break.