I've had a shit experience with Yodel in all four of my interactions with them.
Just today I was told that the flowers I ordered on the 12th for the 14th were damaged in delivery, and they didn't even bother to tell the flower company. In the past I've had deliveries a week+ later than the specific date paid for, I've had goods damaged, I've been spoken to like scum.
>>18091 I'd like to know from the other side of the coin. Chances are that couriers feel under-appreciated and have a hard time dealing with all the cunts day to day.
>>18092 I doubt they feel under-appreciated, as most people they actually meet are very grateful to see them; I know I am. The bigger issue must surely be that they have completely unreasonable scheduling expectations placed upon them by their employers and consequently they end up having fuck people over by cutting corners.
Tuffnells have been the worst delivery company I have had dealings with over the phone, always some mardy Wessi bints on the other end of the phone who sound about as unenthused to be working for them as you could imagine. Drivers have always been cheery and polite though, and explained their route and possible delay better than Cheryl on the other end of the phone ever could.
We've had post from Courrierlads before, the general problem seems to be that like any other company, the business tries to cut costs by forcing more "productivity" than is reasonably possible out of the lowest level workers. Drivers are forced to contend with massive delivery runs that, even on perfect weather days with no traffic and addresses that are all nice easily accessed suburban houses, would be pushing it. As a result they have little choice but to rush it, cut corners, and ultimately provide a poorer service.
On top of that couriers are the sort of companies that don't seem to have a concept of "customer service", because they are usually a third party, and the buck can usually be passed straight to the business originating the delivery.
There are some properly excellent courier companies, but they're bloody expensive. The problem isn't that there's something inherently shit about the courier business, but that we demand too much for too little. It's just not possible to offer reliable next-day delivery for the rates that mainstream couriers charge, so they use self-employed drivers who are paid per delivery or set unrealistic targets for salaried drivers. They run their infrastructure at maximum capacity, so the slightest problem (bad weather, heavy traffic, mechanical failure) buggers up the whole system for days.
IMO the basic problem is the lie of "free" delivery. Of course it isn't free, mail-order companies just roll it into the price of the goods, but it incentivises them to seek out the absolute cheapest delivery service available regardless of quality. I have absolute confidence in FedEx or DX, but they charge several times more than Yodel or Hermes.
I've got so fed up of couriers screwing around on parcel pickups that I now use drop offs instead. It's significantly cheaper and I've usually got an excuse to go into town anyway.
>I have absolute confidence in FedEx or DX, but they charge several times more than Yodel or Hermes.
Weirdly I found that I could get FedEx significantly cheaper through one of the third-party sites than through their own websites. As in, the parcel was quoted at £100 on FedEx's website but went for £35 on parcel2go or one of those.
>>18097 I work at a small online business and we offer a few different delivery options including both Yodel and DHL. The latter is both better and more expensive. The problem I have is that people continually choose Yodel because it's cheaper and then have the gall to complain when their shit is late. What's a diplomatic way of telling a customer "you get what you pay for"?
>so the slightest problem (bad weather, heavy traffic, mechanical failure) buggers up the whole system for days.
During the Christmas period, Yodel decided to stop taking any new parcels from us for 5 days. Didn't even try and sugar-coat it, just said "we can't handle the volume, soz".
>>18110 >The problem I have is that people continually choose Yodel because it's cheaper and then have the gall to complain when their shit is late.
Yes, it's awful how that happens. I mean, it's not as if you as the supplier are legally responsible for supplying the goods right the way up to the point where they are delivered or anything.
>During the Christmas period, Yodel decided to stop taking any new parcels from us for 5 days.
I guess those would be the "special measures to keep on top of things" their boss was trumpeting in the run up. Given that they're fucking up your deliveries, fobbing you off with excuses over Christmas, and causing you to cop flak from your customers, have you considered maybe not patronising them any more and taking your business elsewhere?
>Given that they're fucking up your deliveries, fobbing you off with excuses over Christmas, and causing you to cop flak from your customers, have you considered maybe not patronising them any more and taking your business elsewhere?
Easier said than done. Many customers just will not pay extra for delivery. Either you as a company pay the difference, which is often the difference between profit and loss, or you lose lots of customers who can't bear spending £2 more for a decent delivery service.
The online retail business is absolutely cut-throat, so you have to fight for every last penny just to stay in business. Amazon are incredibly aggressive about pricing because their business model is about expansion rather than profitability; They're happy just to break even on most of their sales and they have huge economies of scale, which puts unbearable pressure on smaller retailers.
It's not as if his firm are only offering Yodel - if customers don't want their shitty service, they can stump up the extra for DHL. Some cunts are just never happy.
Mate, just use DHL. I've never had a problem with them and if you phone them if there is a delay, they are really polite and quite often will send a guy out on a run with like 12 parcels to catch stragglers like me to ensure I get it on the date quoted.
Put a note that you are changing your delivery policy due to overwhelming customer feedback and complaints about Yodel and you will be using DHL because they are a reliable and reputable courier from now on. Then, mention that if you require/prefer another delivery option for whatever reason then contact you before ordering.
People wont complain if they don't have a choice, but have the perception of choice. Choice for choice's sake just turns people into cunts. I know I, for one, use DHL or Royal Mail when given the option because I know what Yodel/Hermes are like, but not everyone will and will simply go for what is cheaper. Remove the choice, remove the problem.
I don't know if it was Yodel, but a delivery bloke just gave me a parcel, and told me he'd delivered about six parcels to my neighbor yesterday. He said "You'd better go get them as soon as possible mate, he seemed really pissed off about it".
1. I've already told them not to deliver to my neighbors because I'm never in when they're awake anyway
2. Don't fucking give the guy the parcels if he's furious about it
3. Why is the guy taking the parcels if he's furious about it?
>>18114 Our local Yodel driver keeps dropping off parcels at the local pet shop, as it's a couple of doors down, even though we've said don't leave them there because they've threatened to start charging us after the time they agreed to take in a delivery for us and it turned out to be a garden table and chairs set that probably took up half their shop. Although to be fair, we'd already told the driver to stop dropping parcels off there and to just put it in the back garden.
It's more that if the guy's shirty with me, I'll almost certainly shout at him for accepting them in the first place, and then I'm just a cunt shouting at his neighbor for looking after his parcels.
>>18112 >It's not as if his firm are only offering Yodel - if customers don't want their shitty service, they can stump up the extra for DHL.
I don't think they're choosing Yodel. They're probably choosing cheap delivery vs expensive delivery. Just move the cheap delivery option to another firm. It really is as simple as that. If that increases your costs, so be it. If you can't handle the costs of doing business, don't do business.
>They're probably choosing cheap delivery vs expensive delivery. Just move the cheap delivery option to another firm. It really is as simple as that.
Have you read anything in this thread? Cheap delivery is shit because it's cheap. Running a reliable delivery service is inherently expensive, because it necessitates being deliberately inefficient to retain a level of spare capacity. The only company who are directly price-competitive with Yodel are Hermes, who are at least as bad.
>If you can't handle the costs of doing business, don't do business.
OK then. Every mainstream online retailer apart from Amazon should shut down, costing thousands of jobs and creating a total monopoly, because you think that silly things like making a profit shouldn't get in the way of running a business the way you think it should be run.
Well, no. As I mentioned, inform the customer that alternative methods are available if they contact you before purchasing, but make clear that you can't guarantee the quality of the delivery service because it is Yodel.
Here I'll do the hard work for you, free of charge.
"Due to an overwhelming amount of feedback from our customers, anonymous industries has been thinking hard about or current delivery policies. It has always been our aim to provide a seamless quality of service from the moment you place your order to the the moment you receive your order, but that hasn't been happening every time and we apoligise.
Starting from the 5th Sunday in Julaugust, the default delivery option for all items will be with DHL. DHL are a reputable and reliable courier and will provide all our customers with an impeccable service from dispatch to delivery.
It is important that our customer's are happy with the service they receive from us, and this is a huge step forward towards achieving that goal.
Free delivery will still be available to all customers upon request, but the default option will be DHL.
Not him but you don't understand how to run a business and it shows. I know what you're saying sounds logical to you, but that's not how large groups of people work.
Dealing in the kinds of frivolities that one could get simply anywhere doesn't sound like a sustainable business model. I can't imagine an issue arising with a £5 delivery charge if the customer was buying a rather expensive piece of pottery or art or indeed a camera lens and other things of that nature.
By online business owner does her really mean Ebay seller/full time Job-Seekers Allowance claimant?
>>18120 >Waaaah, bbbut we have to do it this way or I don't make money!
Nobody owes you a living, m7. Every business moving away from Nodel is a dent in their bottom line. It's a signal that it's not okay to treat other people's customers that way. By continuing to use them, you're contributing to the problem. Remember that it doesn't matter if the customer selects delivery by Lancaster bomber, you are still legally responsible for the delivery and the law does not provide you with an out on this. If you want to cut corners, you deal with the consequences. Don't complain if your customers are whining at you because you brought it on yourself. You, not your customers, get the decision of which carriers to work with.
I've stopped buying things all together from companies who use Yodel to deliver things and don't offer me an alternative, I'm sick of it. I think a counter-weight to this idea that customers just go for what is cheapest all the time is necessary in the conversation. I would argue that customers go for what is most convenient and that, my friend, is DHL. You can track your package minute by minute right to your door and you can actually phone them if there is a issue, Yodel are fucking diabolical mate and that tarnishes your brand and your business because that bad service is now synonymous with ordering from Anon's Custom Sec Toys, or whatever it is you sell.
> I can't imagine an issue arising with a £5 delivery charge if the customer was buying a rather expensive piece of pottery or art or indeed a camera lens and other things of that nature.
I know that sounds logical to you, and to me, but I can't express how many people will compare price across a few sites and go with the cheapest overall price.
You also make a lot more money selling lots of something cheap than you do one or two expensive things (have you never even watched The Apprentice??)
>>18123 >By online business owner does her really mean Ebay seller/full time Job-Seekers Allowance claimant?
You don't think that an ebay seller that does hundreds of sales a day and has millions in feedback is a real business? These are the operations that don't have much choice about using Yodel, because their customers won't ever give a shit about their "brand" and are ordering their ebay searches by "price + P&P - lowest first". There is no way for them to compete without using the very cheapest shipping option.
>>18128 >There is no way for them to compete without using the very cheapest shipping option.
As correctly pointed out earlier, if they can't handle the game, they shouldn't be playing. If you can't compete without cutting corners then your business model is broken.
>>18131 Cor, you'd better hop on ebay and tell all those companies that their business model is broken. Imagine their surprise!
Back in reality, ebayers will continue to pick the cheapest shipping option, and Yodel (or someone like them) will carry on providing sub-par service for a low price. It's not broken, it's just shit.
I've got the point now where if I'm offered free delivery for a low value item I don't buy from there. I always buy from Amazon sellers and Ebay sellers who charge for delivery and use DHL or Royal Mail.
Now, how typical I am is a valid question. I'm a working class student, so I'm not rich. All my friends are working class/lower middle class. All of them hate Yodel and have refused to buy from places who use them for a while now after we all got together one night for a drink and the subject came up.
Now, If a room full of drunk arseholes are coming to these kinds of conclusions the general populace can't be too far behind.
The reality is more likely to be that they're selling profitably but are cutting corners to squeeze a bit more profit from it because spending a bit more money to ensure you meet your legal obligations is such a fucking hardship. Many of the smaller operations are probably not declaring it for tax either.
>By online business owner does her really mean Ebay seller/full time Job-Seekers Allowance claimant?
I'm a software consultant, specialising in statistical analysis. I have done a fair bit of work for online retailers, developing analytics tools for their sales pipeline. Real customers are incredibly irrational in all sorts of ways that can be critical to the success of a business. I have seen double-digit percentage increases in sales just by changing the colour of the "buy now" button. A couple of quid in delivery charges can have a significant impact on sales, even for high-value items. Customers are very sensitive to price because it's quantifiable, and tend to undervalue less tangible things like customer service.
It's also worth stating that the margins on something like a camera lens are incredibly slim, because they're a commodity product. Some retailers can justify a slightly higher margin based on quality of service, some will find a bit of extra profit by buying in huge bulk, but the natural tendency is for prices to be converge down towards cost.
For example, a typical gross retail margin on a laptop is about 6%. From that the retailer has to cover credit card processing costs (~2%), delivery, fulfilment and customer service. On a £400 laptop, you'd be doing well to net a fiver. Retail is a brutal business, online retail is even worse.
That's the reality of the business, and the only way it will change is if consumers are willing to pay more. We might slowly be trending towards that and some customers are prepared to pay a premium for better delivery, but it's currently the case that most customers want low prices above all else. The only sane business strategy is to advertise prices with "free" postage via a crap courier with quality services as an optional extra, otherwise you'll be pissing away customers to someone else who does.
>>18135 >he only sane business strategy is to advertise prices with "free" postage via a crap courier with quality services as an optional extra, otherwise you'll be pissing away customers to someone else who does.
Funny how Amazon manage to send things using reasonable delivery services. I think the problem is in the unfounded assumption that the people sending via Yodel are doing anything right in the first place. In the days of the bubble something you'd hear said is that copying Amazon is not a business plan. Your typical ebayer is simply not equipped to compete with the Amazons and Tescos of this world. It's folly for them to think they are and silly to complain that they're forced into dodgy practices.
>>18136 >Funny how Amazon manage to send things using reasonable delivery services.
By taking a small loss in many cases, yes. Amazon's promotion of Prime, for instance, is paradoxical from a business perspective in that Prime is intended to encourage subscribers to buy more things, but Amazon tend to lose money when those subscribers use the service due to shipping costs. These short-term losses are considered worthwhile in the grander scheme of things (a future in which Amazon have an effective monopoly over online sales and distribution, end to end), and whilst that future doesn't include Yodel, it certainly doesn't include FedEx or UPS either.
I saved a post that someone here made about Amazon; it's arguably only tangentially related to the conversation, and it's quite long so feel free to tl;dr, but I think it's fascinating and worth reposting nonetheless:
>Amazon are psychotically aggressive about price. They will undercut anyone, regardless of what it costs them. They're pursuing a strategy of total market dominance and their shareholders are backing them. When people accuse Amazon of tax avoidance, they're missing the point - Amazon genuinely don't make a profit most years, which is far more worrying. They're buying any company that might conceivably compete with them; If they can't buy the company, they'll crush them by selling products at a loss. Amazon's investors saw how successfully they destroyed their competition in the book trade and they're happy to patiently wait while they dominate other markets in that way.
>The heart of their strategy is Amazon Prime. This, again, is something they lose money on, but it makes perfect business sense. Once you've paid your annual Prime subscription, you get unlimited next-day delivery for free, so there's an obvious incentive to go straight to Amazon. Prime members buy vastly more from Amazon than they did before joining Prime, in large part because they start buying all sorts of odds and ends that they would have previously bought elsewhere. Getting you to buy more has intrinsic value to Amazon even if they make no profit on that sale, because it provides them with valuable information about your purchasing habits.
>One of Amazon's cleverest strategies in this respect is Amazon Family. They heavily promote this scheme to expecting mothers, which gives you three months of free Prime membership and a 15% discount on nappies. It's all about creating purchasing habits - once you're buying your nappies through Amazon it becomes automatic; Amazon also get to do their algorithmic "People who bought X also bought Y" magic to sell you all sorts of other stuff. They'll continue to market stuff at you for the rest of your child's life, picking up all sorts of data about your child along the way.
>In a similar vein, Amazon are massively expanding their Subscribe & Save programme. On thousands of consumable items, Amazon offer a discount if you subscribe to have that product sent to you automatically on a regular basis. They offer all sorts of products in this way, from razor blades to dog food. Amazon know that this arrangement is so convenient that you're unlikely to ever bother unsubscribing, even if Amazon are no longer the cheapest.
>Jeff Bezos has said that his goal is to create a company that knows what you want to buy before you do. He envisions a future in which Amazon just send you stuff without you asking, because they can perfectly predict your wants and needs. People will be delighted with that arrangement, because Amazon will consistently pick out nicer things than they would have bought for themselves. That goal is both creepy as fuck and entirely plausible.
>To give you a sense of the scale of Amazon's ambitions, check out the following video. Last year, Amazon bought Kiva Systems, a company that makes intelligent, autonomous shelving. Watching it all in motion is utterly unnerving, like a sneak preview of the Robocalypse. Amazon aren't a retailer in the conventional sense, they're a technology company that uses machine intelligence to sell stuff. Everyone else is focussed on today or the next financial quarter, but Amazon are planning for the far future.
But amazon uses Yodel, and Yodel isn't even the worst that amazon has to offer... Ever had anything delivered by amazon logistics? They may as well just turn up at a jobcentre and hand a load of parcels over to the first person they see who owns a car.
>>18142 >Do people really need a branded van and a uniform to deliver your parcels?
That depends. Will it make them take a bit of pride in their work, thereby resulting in fewer parcels being lobbed over fences, left with the wrong neighbour, or deposited in a wheelie-bin on bin day?
Give it time ladm8 - Amazon have no intention of continuing to subsidise other parcel companies. Give it two or three years and you'll see Amazon vans everywhere. The more deliveries they can do per area, the lower overall cost. Amazon want to introduce Fresh into the UK and take on the supermarkets.
I was the chap asking about a keyboard the other week. When it got delivered I didn't hear them knocking so they just left it outside, up against the wall. I didn't even know it was there until my dad carried it in. No idea how long it had been there, and without so much as a bloody note.
Anyway, I seem to recall some former couriers on here saying they'd get propositioned by housewives quite a lot, so perhaps they're always rushing off to another shag?
>>18198 Yes, another keyboard. I got 2 TVs a couple of years ago by doing this. I didn't set out to do it. They were just cunts, and when they delivered the second one, I neglected to tell them that they had already delivered it before.
DPD is basically Parcel Force innit. They are ok, I like their tracking. The guy who does my area is called John. He gets here about 4 every time I use them, like clockwork. No surprises with ARE JOHN.
Basically. Both the company you ordered from and the delivery company both have the insurance and processes to deal with a lost parcel, so you just tell the seller and let them deal with it. If a driver ever leaves a box outside my door, or posts a thing that's supposed to have a signature, or even delivers it to a neighbor, I just say it's nowhere to be found. Then they send you another one. It's great.
Apparently Game send everything through Hermes, with no signature or tracking. Get yourself a couple of Xboxes or something.
>>18199 >>18203 Careful with this. You know how pretty much every shop these days wants you to offer up your particulars when you return something? Whether they're supposed to or not, they do try and correlate these, and with online retail it's much easier for them to do. If you do it often, don't be surprised if odd things start happening to your orders. If you're stupid enough to put the things up on eBay after the fact then you might find yourself on the wrong end of some interesting conversations.
I would try this trick, but I can't. I'm on a serviced development, and reception get you to sign something saying that they can receive things on your behalf (and so the seller's responsibility ends there). They sign for everything, and my fellow residents tell me they don't have much trouble with things going missing since most courier firms end up here daily with multiple packages, so the Yodellers know they have an easy way to reach their target.
>>18204 > they do try and correlate these, and with online retail
Are you even kidding. They devote very large computing resources to spotting the patterns. You'll get away with defrauding most online retailers twice a year, but no more.