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>> No. 15041 Anonymous
10th May 2018
Thursday 5:43 pm
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/drag-queens-banned-from-performing-at-free-pride-glasgow-event-over-fears-acts-will-offend-trans-10405214.html

>Drag queens banned from performing at Free Pride Glasgow event over fears acts will offend trans people

[...]

>The organisation said in a statement that it hopes to create a safe space for all members of the LGBTQIA+ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, intersex, asexual) community, and that while the decision may "disappoint" some people "the needs of the most marginalised groups within our community come first."

[...]

>Free Pride Glasgow said: “It was felt that it [drag performance] would make some of those who were transgender or questioning their gender uncomfortable. It was felt by the group within the Trans/Non Binary Caucus that some drag performance, particularly cis drag, hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke, however transgender individuals do not feel as though their gender identity is a joke.”


Life rarely takes the piss out of itself like this. It almost sounds like the plot of a South Park episode.
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>> No. 15647 Anonymous
17th July 2018
Tuesday 7:35 pm
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>>15646
Oh, alternatively: absolutely fuckoff massive worms

I think I like this interpretation better

They will call me Muad'Dib
>> No. 15648 Anonymous
17th July 2018
Tuesday 9:55 pm
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>>15642
I like that more than I should.
>> No. 15649 Anonymous
18th July 2018
Wednesday 3:09 pm
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>>15639

I remember only once a thread about "being a man" here and it was quickly shat on by the "what about women?" Question, and treating any discussion of men's virtues like it was some sort of weird indirect attack on women.
>> No. 15650 Anonymous
18th July 2018
Wednesday 4:09 pm
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>>15649

>and treating any discussion of men's virtues like it was some sort of weird indirect attack on women.


Worse even, the notion that men can very well be strong and bold is dismissed by some third wave feminists as antiquated gender stereotypes that do no favours to sensitive, emotional men who are not like that. It is seen as part of the (pseudo) phaenomenon of "toxic masculinity".

In reality, it's a dismantling of classic male virtues. You are not allowed to be bold and strong as a bloke, because it puts pressure on manlets who never will be either of those.

The irony is that in real life, women still want bold and strong men as partners, both romantic and sexual. Classic masculinity always wins, and women don't favour wimps. Because it is hardwired in them, the same way that men are hardwired, by and large, to seek out particularly feminine women, no matter if they have a chance with them or not.
>> No. 15661 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 8:17 am
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>>15650
Yeah alright Sargon. Enough of the pseudointellectual anti-feminism, we aren't going to buy your testosterone cream.
>> No. 15663 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 12:06 pm
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>>15661
He's not wrong, his post reminded me of a Guardian (of course) article that explicitly said women are as physically strong as men before proceeding to talk about why our definition of 'strong' is wrong.

Nutters the lot of them.
>> No. 15664 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 12:19 pm
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>>15663

Obviously it's rather daft to say women on average are better at deadlifts than men or anything like that, but there's plenty of merit to pointing out that women live longer, suffer pain and illness less harshly and can do childbirth and that. I'd say that's all 'physical strength'.

We could just go back to saying humans are strong in general, like. We did manage to fight everything else on the planet.
>> No. 15665 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 12:23 pm
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>>15663
Gaurdian news article or Gaurdian opinion bin? The distinction is paramount.
>> No. 15666 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 12:46 pm
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>>15664

This isn't to detract from any biological qualities women do have, but I suspect that the greater longevity in lifespan statistics of women versus men owes at least in part to the smaller chance, on average, of death or injury at work, less chance of violent assault or suicide, and less risky behaviour generally.

It irks me a bit when people take stats at face value. Even my favourite economists come out with phrases like "the hardier constitution of women". Fair enough, it may be true, but you can't just take lifespan alone.

I would be interested to read about the illness and pain comparisons you mention, though.
>> No. 15667 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 1:02 pm
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>>15666

A 65 year old woman would expect to live about three years longer than a 65 year old man, so the difference in life expectancy isn't just young men doing daft things. The gap has been narrowing, partly due to a reduction in workplace deaths, partly because of the decline in smoking and partly due to the increase in female obesity.

Weird as it may seem, loneliness may be one of the biggest factors explaining the gap - it has a drastic effect on your life expectancy and older men are far more likely to be lonely than older women.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223190/life_expectancy.pdf
>> No. 15669 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 1:19 pm
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>>15667
>A 65 year old woman would expect to live about three years longer than a 65 year old man, so the difference in life expectancy isn't just young men doing daft things.

Good point on loneliness, but this does presume that none of the daft stuff men do in their youth have physical or mental effects going into their sixties.
>> No. 15674 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 2:05 pm
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>>15666

I think the biggest impact on longevity is your lifestyle. Men tend to not look after themselves as well as women, by and large. In general, women go to the NHS-recommended regular health check ups more than men, and they also go to see a doctor sooner when something seems to actually be wrong.

Also, men are more drawn to savoury foods and saturated fats in their diets than women, who generally prefer lighter and vegetarian dishes. Men also drink loads more beer and alcohol than women and also smoke more.

What also has an effect is that it is usually men who work physically demanding jobs such as builders or technicians. That kind of work puts loads of stress on your body as well over the decades.

You can see that in men who reach very old age, i.e. 80 or 90 or even beyond. Most of them looked after themselves well their whole lives, and they were generally educated knowledge workers in the widest sense with quiet desk jobs during their professional lives.

So even if you were born male, there is a lot you can do to influence your individual life expectancy.

On the other hand, genes also play a role in your resilience. There are people who smoked their entire lives - in moderation - and drank a pint or two every night and still lived to be 90. It is thought that they simply carry more robust genes than most people and are thus able to withstand environmental stress better.

What you shouldn't do is assume that you will be one of those people, and smoke and drink your whole life hoping that it's not going to have an effect on you.
>> No. 15675 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 2:16 pm
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>>15674

I'm convinced in the world of medical marvel we live in, that the main difference between someone who lives to 80 or 90 Vs someone who dies earlier is mostly luck. Obviously being healthy will help, but if the NHS can keep someone like my grandad going, a career fireman who smoked 40 a day until he was 65, then I'm convinced a couple of cheeseburgers isn't going to be what stops me from hitting that age.

Physical jobs definitely knack you up though. Most head chefs look about twenty years older than they are. Ramsey's barely 50 ffs.
>> No. 15676 Anonymous
19th July 2018
Thursday 2:36 pm
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>>15675

> Most head chefs

Ah, cheflad. Good to see you again.


Gordon Ramsay looks as old as he does because he's a fucking choleric who will jump in your face if your eggs are 30 seconds underboiled. That's a kind of disposition that ages you pretty fast.

At one of my old jobs, my boss was a bit like that. He was an uber demanding A-person who expected you to give 120 percent all the time, and yelled at you as a matter of principle if someting you did wasn't to his satisfaction. He was the main reason I quit. Because I didn't like getting shouted at for every minor slip up that I didn't manage to hide from him. The last I heard from that company was that he apparently had a near fatal heart attack on the job last year, at age 47.

At the other end of the spectrum, one of my good friends has a granddad who is 82 and worked his whole life as a higher-level public service employee. He is just one of the most relaxed, laid back and balanced people you will ever meet, and according to my friend, he has always been that way. And he is in very good health for his age, and until recently still rode his bicycle everywhere.
>> No. 15680 Anonymous
20th July 2018
Friday 6:23 pm
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>>15676
What a load of shite - Gordon Ramsay is fit a fiddle. You can tell just by looking at him. He's a black belt in karate and an MMA cage fighter. Just cos he's got some lines on his face doesn't mean he has heart disease.
>> No. 15681 Anonymous
20th July 2018
Friday 6:46 pm
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>>15680

His face tells the entire story. He looks at least 60. The only reason he's still sprightly is because he got out from actual cheffing about fifteen years ago, and has the money and time to do the training.

You'll never get a look at how destructive it is from the celebrities, because they're rich and not chefs any more. The rest of us are all buckled over, twisted gargoyles by about 35.
>> No. 15682 Anonymous
20th July 2018
Friday 7:00 pm
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>>15674

There's not a huge gender difference in lifestyles. Men and women have similar obesity rates. Men are very slightly more likely to smoke (19% vs 17%) but it's not hugely significant. Men drink more, but they can tolerate it better - there's a legitimate justification in the gender difference for recommended units.

>>15675

Luck plays a role, but the effects of lifestyle are massive on a population level. The difference in healthy life expectancy between the poorest 10% and the richest 10% is nearly seventeen years. In some parts of the country, life expectancy changes by ten years in the space of half a mile. You might get hit by a bus or die of ball cancer in your thirties, but you're stacking the odds in your favour by looking after yourself.
>> No. 15683 Anonymous
20th July 2018
Friday 7:26 pm
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>>15681

I was chatting to a lad at the weekend in a pub as I waited for my mtb wheels to be mended. He told me he was a runner, I said I prefer bikes as he gave me concern regarding his 10k fitness. I asked him how old he was, he told me 25 so I said he's still got many miles left in him, once you get to my age things start to slow down. He asked 'how old are you, 30?'. My reply of 45 in a couple of months was met with a 'fuucking nooo way, really?'. I do get a lot of people doing a double take when they realise my age.
>> No. 15686 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 12:47 am
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>>15681

>You'll never get a look at how destructive it is from the celebrities, because they're rich and not chefs any more.

True. Just look at Jamie Oliver, who is well into his early 40s by now but still has that boyish air about him. He turned his back on all the hard kitchen graft about fifteen years ago, and his royalties from books, TV shows and everything else pretty much mean he can spend most of his time being a posh overweening annoying cunt, who expects average joe viewers to make 30 minute meals from salmon, truffles and lemongrass (which me may or may not use all in one recipe).


>>15683

I'm nearly your age, and I also still look improbably young. I started colouring my hair a few years ago because I am a vain enough git that my grey hair started bothering me. But other than that, I was lucky enough that I didn't have to spend the last 20 years working some tough as nails 12 hours a day office job, like some of my friends from uni. Things just went at a more leisurely pace in my life. And it shows. When I think back to one of my first bosses out of uni, he was 42, had his own business, and he just looked old. His hair was all white, his face wrinkled, and he just had an air about him like a spent middle aged human being. I kind of swore to myself I would never end up that way, and by and large, I think I have kept that promise to myself.
>> No. 15687 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 12:56 am
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>>15686

>True. Just look at Jamie Oliver, who is well into his early 40s by now but still has that boyish air about him. He turned his back on all the hard kitchen graft about fifteen years ago

From what I've heard on the Industry Insider Gossip Grapevine, he was a lazy, bad Sous chef at the River Cafe and it was a relief when he was discovered by the Beeb. That could just be jealous mumblings, mind. I can't particularly imagine a michelin place keeping dead weight around. But I'd like to believe it as he's so loathsome I'd like to believe I'm better than him.

where the fuck is my TV show
>> No. 15688 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 1:53 am
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>>15687

>From what I've heard on the Industry Insider Gossip Grapevine, he was a lazy, bad Sous chef

Those qualities aren't particularly relevant when you hang up the cooking spoon and become a TV chef though. What counts on TV is screen appeal. I still think he is being an overweening posh cunt most of the time, but I guess a critical mass of people have liked him enough over the years to have enjoyed watching him.

It's also typically not the most capable people who get promoted and/or discovered. I used to work in politics, and that included breathing the same air as a handful of well-known figures of national politics. People whose names you really actually hear on the news almost every night. I could tell you about two or three of them who were really useless as fuck as (typically local) politicians before they got promoted to do greater things. Politics in particular is an area where the only thing that really counts is to forge alliances to the people who hold positions of power, who will then take you under their wing and help you up through thre ranks. And I think that also goes for many things, including becoming a TV personality. If you know the right people, and if they see something in you, even if it's just the fact that you know how to suck up to them, then there is a good chance you will have it made. However shit you really actually may have been at the job you were doing up to that point.
>> No. 15689 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 11:44 am
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>>15688

It's true that being a good chef has little to do with being a TV chef, and I can't deny his popularity, my mum loves him.

I fully understand why the big hitters like Ramsey, MPW and Tom Kerridge move off into TV land, but I'd much rather them still be helming a three star restaurant somewhere, it's the equivalent of Picasso giving up painting to go do Art Attack.

I suppose it's truly a young man's game though. I'm not even thirty and I don't think I could do full time on the line anymore.The problem is most people in the industry certainly aren't lucky enough to get TV or book deals, or even just move up into ops/development/management like myself. They're stuck in that sweaty horrible life until they retire, but to be honest I've NEVER seen a 60 year old chef, let alone 75. I don't know what happens to these lads, but they just can't keep up at a certain point, especially when they've been crippled by 40 years of kitchen work already.
>> No. 15690 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 12:20 pm
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>>15688

This makes me feel quite stupid for leaving a job in which I had an unofficial mentor who unilaterally hired me and promised me training, future career, etc..

Still, have to forge your own path I suppose.
>> No. 15691 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 12:29 pm
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>>15688
>What counts on TV is screen appeal
>> No. 15692 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 2:35 pm
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>>15690

>a job in which I had an unofficial mentor who unilaterally hired me and promised me training, future career, etc..

That may have been just a carrot that was dangled in front of your face. Loads of employers promise you great things if you put your back into your job and what-have-you. Quite often, very little of it comes true. And then when you ask, where is my promotion or my raise now that I have put in all the extra effort, you are told that business is slow at the moment and they can't afford to give you any of that right now. And so the charade continues. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.


>>15689

>The problem is most people in the industry certainly aren't lucky enough to get TV or book deals, or even just move up into ops/development/management like myself. They're stuck in that sweaty horrible life until they retire

Also, if what a friend who is also a trained chef told me is true, incomes vary widely in the restaurant industry. He said if you are lucky enough to be hired by a reputable five-star restaurant or hotel, you will earn a decent amount of money. But if you work in an unremarkable country inn, you will make barely enough to support yourself.
>> No. 15693 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 7:28 pm
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>>15689

>I fully understand why the big hitters like Ramsey, MPW and Tom Kerridge move off into TV land

I'm no chef and will probably never cook food for a living, but to be honest, I think working under somebody like Ramsay doesn't seem such a scary thought. He's straightforward and outspoken, with him, you always know what is expected of you. He runs a tight ship, but he's not just a choleric cunt, but somebody with a warm side as well. He cares. The only thing you probably have to do under him is to keep giving 110 percent all the time. But these days, if you can't do that, in your respective field, then the job world may not be for you as a whole.
>> No. 15694 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 9:25 pm
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>>15693

Dunno mate. I work in the public sector, people ask me if I'm feeling alright if I so much as make it in on time.
>> No. 15695 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 9:33 pm
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>>15694

So... that's your 110 percent then? Showing up for work every morning on time?
>> No. 15696 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 9:34 pm
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>>15695

Once or twice a week if I'm feeling extra motivated.
>> No. 15699 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 9:38 pm
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>>15696

Definition of socialism there, lad
>> No. 15703 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 10:56 pm
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>>15699

No. Reality in about 70 percent of all workplaces in the UK.
>> No. 15704 Anonymous
21st July 2018
Saturday 11:34 pm
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>>15703
>> No. 15705 Anonymous
22nd July 2018
Sunday 12:15 am
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>>15692

>Also, if what a friend who is also a trained chef told me is true, incomes vary widely in the restaurant industry.

True enough. There's a lot of variation. 8 quid an hour is fairly typical for a CDP (line cook) of an unexceptional restaurant, but usually you'll also get a share of tips, and in a busy restaurant that can work out to be two or three pounds extra per hour. Also consider that many chefs are doing 60 hour weeks, and it adds up, though it's still hugely unfair considering the amount of work they're doing.

The industry is shooting itself in the foot, as underpaying your general staff leads very quickly to staff shortages, which means you need to hire an agency chef, and they get paid 12-15 quid an hour at the very least, plus agency fees. So, all the disgruntled chefs at Carluccios or Zizzi or wherever tell them to shove their zero hour minimum wage contract up their arse and go work for the agencies. When I was agency I was sold as a head chef, and I was making 25-35 an hour depending on how desperate they were for someone competent.

Probably the smartest thing any competent British chef can do is fuck off to Dubai. I have friends there pulling silly money, 100k+ running their hotels, and the teams are so huge you get to spend a lot of your time on the fun stuff.

>>15693

I've certainly worked with much cuntier people than him. Like you say, he's an incredibly chef and most of the team who have worked under him in his heyday are industry leaders in their own right, most with at least their own restaurant under their belt. So a bit of screaming is absolutely worth it for working with one of the most talented and knowledgeable men in the industry.

It's impossible to be a good chef without being passionate, and in a hot, cramped, stressful, noisy environment, this passion is most easily manifested as aggression. There's not really time during service in a place like that to gently prod someone or talk them through their mistakes, you just have to shout at them to fix it, and if they're not capable of fixing it, then they have to fuck off. The risks are too great at that level - lose a michelin star and you lose a couple of million in revenue that year.

Many chefs insist it's impossible to run a kitchen at any level without this aggressive demeanour, but that's really not true, I don't even think it's the easiest way - but you chuck 8 blokes in a 35C metal box for 14 hours and the natural response is a bit of shouting, so that Ramsay style is found all over. I happen to think it's much easier and less fatiguing to run a kitchen calmly. You can still apply pressure without calling someone a donkey, you can still bark orders without sounding like you want to kill someone. I find it makes for a more efficient team, and you're much less likely to have anyone walk out mid shift on you - a frequent occurrence in the industry.

Rene Redzepi doesn't allow shouting or swearing at all at Noma, yet that managed to be literally the best restaurant in the world, so it's definitely not necessary.
>> No. 15706 Anonymous
22nd July 2018
Sunday 12:24 am
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>>15705

I should probably also say that a lot of chefs truly love what they do and that's worth a lot when it comes to thinking about your salary. I earn an embarrassing amount doing consulting and ops work now, but honestly I was a lot happier in the tiny seafood gastropub that paid me 22 grand and let me experiment with my menu and put out proper quality food.
>> No. 15709 Anonymous
22nd July 2018
Sunday 1:07 pm
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>>15705

The British version of Kitchen Nightmares makes it clear that Ramsay isn't a cunt, he just has standards. Whenever he encountered a chef who really wanted to do a good job, he was supportive and encouraging; he reserved his ire for people who clearly didn't give a shit.
>> No. 15710 Anonymous
22nd July 2018
Sunday 1:23 pm
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>>15709

He can be a cunt with standards.
>> No. 15711 Anonymous
22nd July 2018
Sunday 3:43 pm
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>>15710
He wasn't a cunt to the lad who couldn't move past not having a star anymore, he really helped him sort his priorities out and showed him resting on his laurels had resulted in his partner moving past him as he had forgot how to prepare fish.
>> No. 15712 Anonymous
22nd July 2018
Sunday 3:55 pm
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>>15711



500 pounds to think about a fucking cheeseboard you fat bastard
>> No. 15713 Anonymous
22nd July 2018
Sunday 3:58 pm
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>>15712

(I'm not trying to call him a cunt here, to be honest. He's pretty much on the money throughout)
>> No. 15724 Anonymous
23rd July 2018
Monday 12:37 pm
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>>15709
>>15711

I think it's pretty easy to get on Gordon Ramsay's good side. Even if your restaurant is in deep shit, the thing he expects from you is to take responsibility for it and give it your all to try to turn it around.

I think that's really what aggravates him. People not taking responsibility for their own failures and making excuses, blaming others and not wanting to admit they've screwed up. He's always ready to meet you halfway, and if you accept his help and are ready to change your ways, you're golden with him.

Also, he has a particular disgust for minging storage freezers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9xQWYsOnDc

The latter with good reason. One of my parents' friends worked 20 years for the council as a restaurant food safety inspector. She had discretion to shut down restaurants and forbid them from serving any more food until their food hygiene issues were sorted out. Gordon Ramsay isn't taking the piss on Kitchen Nightmares when he tells them he's shutting them down for the evening. Poorly stored food ingredients really can develop pathogens that can make you spend a few days puking and shitting your guts out, and much worse.
>> No. 15725 Anonymous
23rd July 2018
Monday 3:46 pm
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>>15724

I'll never understand how people let kitchens get in these sorts of states. I've seen them myself and it's the only time I've not felt an ounce of guilt for firing them.

Three people died last year from restaurant hygiene or cross contamination related issues, and a lot of people involved got prison time for it - rightly so.
>> No. 15727 Anonymous
23rd July 2018
Monday 4:04 pm
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>>15725

The sad thing is, most people would never allow their fridges at home to deteriorate into a state like that.

I'm a bachelor and my fridge looks a little gross now and then, so I adopted a habit a few years ago of clearing it out completely every two to three months, scrubbing all its removable shelves in the kitchen sink with chlorine bleach, and then proceeding to the inside of the fridge and spraying and wiping it, too, with bleach. Well and then wiping it down throughly with warm tap water in a bucket afterwards, so the chlorine smell won't seep into the food that much.

I sometimes discover things in the back of my fridge like a mummified courgette or a lemon covered in blue mold. That isn't ideal, but I don't think it's really a health hazard as such. From what you see on Kitchen Nightmares, on the other hand, some restaurant kitchen staff apparently don't give their storage freezers a good clean for two or three years, or even longer.

But maybe it's because I am the only person who has access to my fridge at home. If I don't clean it, nobody on this wide Earth will. I guess if you've got eight or nine people working in a restaurant kitchen, it's difficult to instill a sense of responsibility into each and every one of them that a storage freezer simply must not be allowed to get that way.

But in the end, that's a universal problem in many workplaces. Nobody feels responsible, so things go to shit.
>> No. 15728 Anonymous
23rd July 2018
Monday 4:16 pm
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>>15727

Cleaning all the ram packed freezers, fridges and walk ins is a daunting task once you've let it get on top of you, so I understand how it happens in understaffed kitchens, but cleanliness should be priority #1 and it's distressing to me that professionals don't understand that. I've never questioned any head chef under me who went over his labour if the reason was cleaning.

>But in the end, that's a universal problem in many workplaces. Nobody feels responsible, so things go to shit

This is basically it, though you'd hope the head and sous would feel responsible enough to make sure it's sorted, but plenty of them are simply not good managers.

What I've always done is assign one fridge or freezer as the responsibility of one person - every week he pulls everything out, sorts and cleans it, and keeps an eye on it throughout the week. There's usually six or seven fridges and freezers in a kitchen so it's easy to do, and usually it's enough to instil that responsibility in them, and very quickly you get them bollocking others for messing up THEIR freezer, which is great to see and ends up pushing everyone's standards up.
>> No. 15729 Anonymous
24th July 2018
Tuesday 11:55 am
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>>15728

>What I've always done is assign one fridge or freezer as the responsibility of one person - every week he pulls everything out, sorts and cleans it, and keeps an eye on it throughout the week.

That's a bit like you see in some restrooms at service stations. Some have a chart at the restroom entrance with a list of the last times the bathroom was cleaned, with the time and date and the signature of the person who cleaned it. That way, not only will management (and also customers) see that the toilets are cleaned regularly, but there will be no mucking about because you stand for the cleaning job you did on those toilets with your name.

A lack of a feeling of responsibility comes from being able to blame others. If you know that nobody can blame you for your laziness, then most people will assume they will always get away with it. But as soon as something can be traced back to you and you only, most people will know that their reputation, maybe even their job as a whole hangs in the balance.

Another example are luxury carmakers like Rolls-Royce and others. The name of the mechanic who oversaw the assembly and mounting of a particular engine is put on a small little brass plaque on the engine itself. Not only does it instill a sense of pride in those mechanics, because what mechanic wouldn't want their name on a Rolls-Roye engine, but it also means they know that their reputation as an employee is at stake if they don't deliver top quality.
>> No. 15856 Anonymous
3rd September 2018
Monday 10:46 pm
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A blue plaque celebrating a woman described as “the first modern lesbian” is to be changed after complaints it “erased” her sexuality. The tribute to 19th-century diarist Anne Lister described her as “gender-nonconforming” but did not explicitly say she was a lesbian.

The plaque was unveiled on 24 July at Holy Trinity church in York, marking the location where Lister received communion with her girlfriend after exchanging rings at home almost 200 years ago. A draft of the new wording will be proposed and opened for public comment in the coming weeks.

The original plaque read: “Gender-nonconforming entrepreneur. Celebrated marital commitment, without legal recognition, to Ann Walker in this church. Easter, 1834.”

An online petition calling on York Civic Trust to change the wording attracted more than 2,500 signatures. The petition said: “Anne Lister was, most definitely, gender non-conforming all her life. She was also however, a lesbian. Don’t let them erase this iconic woman from our history.”

Julie Furlong, who started the petition, told the BBC she was pleased the wording was to change: “I am very happy that they have realised that lesbian erasure is not acceptable, but I will wait to hear on the final wording before expressing opinion as to that.”


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/03/plaque-for-first-modern-lesbian-to-be-reworded-after-complaints

I'd have thought the fact the plaque had a rainbow outline and mentioned marital commitment to another woman would have been a massive hint about her but apparently it's lesbian erasure.
>> No. 15857 Anonymous
3rd September 2018
Monday 10:57 pm
15857 spacer
>>15856

>Julie Furlong

I wonder if she's a TERF.

https://radlesfemsurvivor.wordpress.com/2018/07/12/open-letter-to-stonewall-2/

Yep, she's a TERF.
>> No. 15858 Anonymous
3rd September 2018
Monday 11:11 pm
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>>15856

I have the strongest feeling that if they'd used the word lesbian instead, there'd still have been someone asking why they didn't mention her gender nonconformity.
>> No. 15860 Anonymous
4th September 2018
Tuesday 3:18 am
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>>15857
Does being sane require its own acronym now?
>> No. 15861 Anonymous
4th September 2018
Tuesday 3:36 am
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>>15860

Julie, I just want to say, I loved Sugar Rush, but you're really annoying.
>> No. 15862 Anonymous
4th September 2018
Tuesday 3:44 am
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>>15860
We could call ourselves Non-Radicalised Moderate Adult Laiety. NORMALs for short.

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