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>> No. 15041 Anonymous
10th May 2018
Thursday 5:43 pm
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/drag-queens-banned-from-performing-at-free-pride-glasgow-event-over-fears-acts-will-offend-trans-10405214.html

>Drag queens banned from performing at Free Pride Glasgow event over fears acts will offend trans people

[...]

>The organisation said in a statement that it hopes to create a safe space for all members of the LGBTQIA+ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, intersex, asexual) community, and that while the decision may "disappoint" some people "the needs of the most marginalised groups within our community come first."

[...]

>Free Pride Glasgow said: “It was felt that it [drag performance] would make some of those who were transgender or questioning their gender uncomfortable. It was felt by the group within the Trans/Non Binary Caucus that some drag performance, particularly cis drag, hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke, however transgender individuals do not feel as though their gender identity is a joke.”


Life rarely takes the piss out of itself like this. It almost sounds like the plot of a South Park episode.
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>> No. 16362 Anonymous
6th November 2018
Tuesday 5:55 pm
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>>16359

>the conversation around racial fluidity continues to be hijacked by a privileged minority

That's the kind of sentence that just crashes my brain, like a paradox does with robots in Futurama.

I mean I want to react with indignation but honestly, it's not a big logical leap that if you an be the wrong gender, you can be the wrong race. Or the wrong species. Or hell, the wrong time period, why not.
>> No. 16363 Anonymous
6th November 2018
Tuesday 10:23 pm
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>>16359
>Being transracial is not the same as simply “feeling” black, or Asian, or white.

Why not? That sort of "feeling" is precisely how Gender Identity Disorder is defined, and even that's facing calls to be depathologised anyway. The biological differences between ethnic groups are miniscule compared to those between genders, deciding that you can change yours based on a feeling is a far less ridiculous conceit.
>> No. 16364 Anonymous
6th November 2018
Tuesday 10:59 pm
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I remember when the Dolezal story first hit the headlines and I somehow found myself discussing it with a couple of liberal North London type white girls at a party somewhere. At the time, basically just to amuse myself, I pretended to agree with the principle of being able to choose your own race because I knew they would pretend to agree with me or at least be too polite and right-on to challenge my perspective.

No regrets. It was really funny at the time.
>> No. 16365 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 12:32 am
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>>16363

It is not the same in the way that being religious isn't just being superstitious; your manager is being is assertive, not just being an arsehole; and that it is gardening tool primarily for digging, comprising a blade and a long handle, not a spade
>> No. 16366 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 1:58 am
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>>16365

So in lieu of explaining why it's different, you're just going to say "it's different"? If you're going to take the view that all transracial people are chancers or disturbed, how are you any different from someone who dismissively says the same about transgenders? If a black friend of mine told me he'd always identified with white people and considered himself to be transracial then I'd find it bloody weird but I wouldn't laugh in his face or say "no, biologically you're not nor can you ever be". I've never had to sit down and consider this before, but it ultimately makes no more or less sense than transgenderism. If anything it's a more naturally fluid area of human identity.
>> No. 16367 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 2:49 am
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>>16366
>So in lieu of explaining why it's different, you're just going to say "it's different"?

I explained why you just failed to understand.
>> No. 16369 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 3:00 am
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>>16367

Could you explain it better or more simply for the unwashed masses, then?

You seem to have just said 'it's not the same because these other things aren't the same' which isn't helpful to someone as thick as I am. Please help.
>> No. 16370 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 10:17 am
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>>16369

Sorry I only state my opinion in vague statements. What is the difference between being religious and being superstitious?
>> No. 16372 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 10:19 am
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>>16370

>What is the difference between being religious and being superstitious?

That society traditionally assigns more value and legitimacy to one than the other.

HMMM
>> No. 16373 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 10:25 am
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>>16370

1. A larger network of followers
2. Government recognition
3. Viewed with more weight simply because more people believe it
4. Arguably religion is just superstition with more arbitrary respect behind it

I'm struggling to see how this makes thinking you're black any different to thinking you're a woman.

You should have gone with brain chemistry or something.
>> No. 16374 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 10:54 am
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>>16373

Good. One more step. Compare and contrast.
>> No. 16375 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 11:12 am
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>>16360
They're having a pop at Attenborough today, fucking hell.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/07/david-attenborough-world-environment-bbc-films
>> No. 16376 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 11:17 am
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>>16375
*Gasp*

How dare someone voice disagreement with somone else?
>> No. 16377 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 11:20 am
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>>16375

that article was pure clickbait, why did you post a link? I could have not given them the satisfaction.
>> No. 16378 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 11:23 am
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>>16376

it isn't is disagreement (they are just moaning that the good work he has done isn't perfect), it is raw character assassination for attention.
>> No. 16379 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 11:30 am
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>>16366

Gender really is complicated and ambiguous.

Look at the athletes Caster Semenya and Dutee Chand. They both have XX chromosomes, but the IAAF and the IOC aren't entirely sure that they count as female and you can see their point. If a committee of scientists can spend eight months trying to figure out whether someone is male or female and come back with an answer that includes the word "probably", then you know you're dealing with something pretty bloody complicated.

All foetuses start out as completely undifferentiated by gender. It may or may not have a Y chromosome, but it doesn't start developing any sex-specific characteristics until about 10 weeks. By default you develop into a female. If you do have a Y chromosome, the SRY gene usually causes you to develop male traits - you develop testes rather than ovaries, those testes produce androgens, the androgen receptors in your cells respond to those androgens and you become male.

The thing is, there are at least 400 known mutations of the androgen receptor gene. Those mutations can cause your androgen receptors to be partially or completely insensitive to androgen; you develop testes as a foetus, they're pumping out signals to the rest of your body telling it to develop male traits, but your body either struggles to hear or completely ignores those signals. The prevalence of these mutations is a lot higher than you might imagine - at least 8% of people with a Y chromosome have one or more mutations.

If you've got XX chromosomes, your development in the womb can be significantly affected by your mother's androgen levels. People without testes still produce androgens, albeit in much lower levels. There's fairly good evidence to suggest a link between prenatal androgen exposure and transsexualism, homosexuality and autism-spectrum disorders. We know that people on the autism spectrum are drastically more likely to be transsexual or homosexual, supporting the plausibility of this link. On a population level, there have been some fairly significant changes to prenatal androgen levels due to environmental exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals.

Human biology is unfathomably complicated and there are myriad ways that the development of sex characteristics can go a bit wonky. I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to most people who say "you got it wrong, I'm not the gender you thought I was at birth".
>> No. 16380 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 11:40 am
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>>16378

Firstly "they"? It isn't "they" it's George Monbiot, it says so at the top of the thing you didn't bother reading. Secondly, proper grown ups can have big massive disagreements that aren't "character assassinations". Highlighting Attenborough's gently gently approach to protecting the enviroment, and expressing frustration with it, doesn't come close to "character assassination" and to claim it does is hysterical guff. Stop being such a whinging, mardy, baby and learn how to disagree with people instead having a teary because someone was mean to dear old Grandpa gorilla whisperer. I doubt David Attenborough, being an intelligent, passionate, adult of quite some vintage, is feeling especially devestated this morning.
>> No. 16381 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 12:04 pm
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>>16380

The only person having a teary here is you.

The guardian knows exactly what it is doing, it is like printing an article by Morrissey about eating meat being the same as the holocaust, or by Sean Penn about how Britain should give the Falklands to Argentina. It is the incoherent ramblings of a famous person for the sake of being contrarian and get attention disguised as giving balance.
>> No. 16382 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 12:06 pm
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>>16381
Morrissey is actually a cunt though.
>> No. 16384 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 12:32 pm
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Oxygen of publicity, lads.
>> No. 16385 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 12:37 pm
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>>16379
>Look at the athletes Caster Semenya and Dutee Chand. They both have XX chromosomes, but the IAAF and the IOC aren't entirely sure that they count as female and you can see their point.

If they stopped gendering athletics, you could solve the problem over night, if you phrase it right buzz feed would feel obligated to support the movement.

>The thing is, there are at least 400 known mutations of the androgen receptor gene. Those mutations can cause your androgen receptors to be partially or completely insensitive to androgen; you develop testes as a foetus, they're pumping out signals to the rest of your body telling it to develop male traits, but your body either struggles to hear or completely ignores those signals.

If a TV has no antenna is it still a TV or is it just a monitor?

If a male has a no willy, Are they a woman?


>at least 8% of people with a Y chromosome have one or more mutations
I'm not quite sure what point you are making here, 100% of people have mutations we still consider them human even if they have 6 fingers or 3 kidneys, why would that 8% not just be male.
I think a lot of these things are over complicated for the sake of feelings, peoples obsession with genitals and corner cases.
>> No. 16386 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 1:01 pm
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>>16385

>I'm not quite sure what point you are making here

At least 8% of people with a Y chromosome have one or more mutations of the gene that determines whether you have male or female characteristics. When you raise the issue of intersex conditions, a common retort is "ah, but they're very rare exceptions to the gender binary". There is concrete scientific evidence to support the idea that sex and gender are a spectrum with a meaningful grey area.

The crux of my argument is that any effort to establish a gender binary is in fact massively overcomplicating things. "Some people are male, some people are female, some people are a bit ambiguous" is fully supported by science and perfectly straightforward. "Everyone is either male or female, no exceptions, no swapsies" means you have to explain a whole bunch of weird and complicated stuff that doesn't fit into a neat either/or.

Essentially, I think we should all just fucking relax about it. The gender binary is stupid, having 47 different gender identities is stupid, but it's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that lots of people switch teams at some point in their life or just aren't sure which side they're on. It's only a big deal if you choose to make it a big deal.
>> No. 16388 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 1:07 pm
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>>16366

>it ultimately makes no more or less sense than transgenderism

I think what it boils down to is that there's a lot of people on that spectrum who have a vested interest in the whole biological argument for transgenderism. Those who want it legitimised as a real life medical thing, and not just a fantasy everyone collectively allows you to indulge for the sake of making you happy. If they let the slope become slippery enough to allow transracialism or transpeciesism, their position becomes blatantly and transparently absurd, and that's the issue. It really does make no difference, from an ethical viewpoint, whether it's a "real" biological thing or not.

I'm the bitter furfag from the last time we talked about this sort of thing. I think they're a bunch of fucking hypocrites really.
>> No. 16389 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 1:44 pm
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>>16388

You're not a fox m8, get over it.
>> No. 16391 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 2:28 pm
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>>16386

>At least 8% of people with a Y chromosome have one or more mutations of the gene that determines whether you have male or female characteristics.

A mutation of the Y chromosome is not the same as being intersex, the majority are benign and meaningless. Intersex really covers 2 key areas an unusual arrangement of sexual phenotype chromosomes (typically caused by unusual cell division), or an atypical development (typically because of a resistance to developmental hormones) or if feeling really generous with your definition the majority are just the failure for the urethra to properly form in a bloke.
None of that has anything to do with mutation of the y chromosome.
>When you raise the issue of intersex conditions, a common retort is "ah, but they're very rare exceptions to the gender binary". There is concrete scientific evidence to support the idea that sex and gender are a spectrum with a meaningful grey area.

They are a very rare exceptions to the gender binary, it isn't a spectrum for more than 99% of the population there is really very little grey area, you are more likely to be born with only one kidney then to be intersex we don't re-write text books to include every single exception to the rule it all points to an obsession with genitalia to me.

>The crux of my argument is that any effort to establish a gender binary is in fact massively overcomplicating things. "Some people are male, some people are female, some people are a bit ambiguous" is fully supported by science and perfectly straightforward. "Everyone is either male or female, no exceptions, no swapsies" means you have to explain a whole bunch of weird and complicated stuff that doesn't fit into a neat either/or.

Vague non-committed statements are always supported by science but not terribly useful or meaningful, particularly as you seem to be suggesting that there is a more broad quantity of 'a bit ambiguous' then actually exists, and ignore the very obvious point that intersex people are the result of a malfunction in process of churning out one or the other which although not very nice is the truth of the matter. If we had stable human hermaphrodites passing on human hermaphrodite genes with regular frequency or your mother's line always gave birth to six worker children who were infertile for every fertile one who look after her and you, you might have a point but we don't.
>> No. 16392 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 4:35 pm
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>>16388
>Those who want it legitimised as a real life medical thing
It is legitimised, though. It's treated as a physiological condition as there is sufficient evidence to support the theory that is a brain abnormailty and sufficient evidence to support transition being the only recourse.

Gender dysphoria is a symptom, not the condition, the condition is Gender Dysmorphia. Gender dysphoria can present itself in patients with mental health issues. It's the gender clinics job to weed them out.

You don't just get to say you're a woman and then they give you hormones, in the UK at least, so it is different from whatever being a furry is (A fetish? Who the fuck knows). Auto-gynephilia is what I suspect you're conflating with trangenderism to come to the conclusion trannies are hypocrites, which again is different.
>> No. 16393 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 5:23 pm
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>>16374

So because loads of people say religion is different to superstition, it just is?

Got it, thanks. This means if I get enough people to sign my petition I'm legally black. Cheers pal
>> No. 16394 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 5:40 pm
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>>16393
Is it possible to legally even be a particular ethnicity? I mean, I'm White British but am I legally White British?
>> No. 16395 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 5:53 pm
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>>16394

I'm some countries it goes down on your birth certificate and you can use it get places at university despite having scores in the 70% range instead of the 90% range.

And that was your pointless factoid of the week
>> No. 16396 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 5:56 pm
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Pensioner, 69, 'who identifies as a 45-year-old' begins legal action to have his age reduced so he can attract more women on Tinder

A 69-year-old Dutchman is battling to legally reduce his age by 20 years so he can get more work and attract more women on Tinder.

Emile Ratelband argues that if transgender people are allowed to change sex, he should be allowed to change his date of birth because doctors said he has the body of a 45-year-old. The motivational speaker, a media personality in the Netherlands, is suing his local authority after they refused to amend his age on official documents.

Mr Ratelband's case has now gone to a court in the city of Arnhmen in the eastern Dutch province of Gelderland. He was born on 11 March, 1949, but says he feels at least 20 years younger and wants to change his birth date to 11 March, 1969.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6363439/Pensioner-69-identifies-45-year-old-tries-change-age.html
>> No. 16397 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 6:00 pm
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>>16392

Isn't generalised body dysmorphia/dysphoria also a thing?

>You don't just get to say you're a woman and then they give you hormones

Of course not, but you pretty much do (and should) get to just say you're a woman and have people treat you as such.

>It really does make no difference, from an ethical viewpoint, whether it's a "real" biological thing or not.

Was my main point. There's trannies, there's people who are half way between, there's people who feel like one on Monday and the other on a Tuesday. The scientific evidence is irrelevant in the face of all that, it's a philosophical question about whether you're willing to accommodate people's self image.

>>16389

I am and I've yiffed your mum.
>> No. 16400 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 6:27 pm
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>>16396
I don't know what's worse, that this cunt thinks he's funny or that not a single person in comments seems to realise he's just taking the piss. I'm getting those "get me off this fucking planet" feelings again.
>> No. 16410 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 7:26 pm
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>>16400
Plenty of people in the comments realised it.
>> No. 16414 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 7:47 pm
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>>16400
You don't know he's taking the piss.
>> No. 16416 Anonymous
7th November 2018
Wednesday 8:24 pm
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>>16397

>The scientific evidence is irrelevant in the face of all that

It really is though. The NHS doesn't offer treatment to people who just fancy a penis enlargement. The Disability Discrimination Act doesn't require employers to make reasonable adjustments for lazy bastards. The scientific basis for transsexuality is very much relevant to the social and legal status of transgender people.

>I am and I've yiffed your mum.

Joke's on you mate, my mum is dead.
>> No. 16442 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 7:52 am
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The transracialist gives his side.

>I have never made any secret of the fact that I was born to Irish parents, and that my parents and grandparents are white. But my identity is different. It’s there for all to see in Chilling Out, a documentary I took part in back in 1990. As I said then: “When I’m alone in my bedroom looking in the mirror, thinking about stuff I’ve written down, thinking about my past … I think I’m a black man.”

>I am the eldest of three brothers, but during early childhood, when there were only two of us, to neighbours on our west London estate, we looked as if we weren’t our parents’ children. There was an old saying: “Mother’s baby, father’s maybe” – only the mother knows. When I was born, my dad wasn’t sure if I was his son, and this was heartbreaking for my mum, to say the least. Two years later another little boy came along with the same physical characteristics, which must have been another bombshell.

>Both of us had a sense of this not being our home, or our parents. People would arrive on the doorstep to gawp at us. In primary school, when I was seven or eight, people would ask me where I came from and would conclude that I must be adopted. So, at an age where I didn’t know what race or identity was, I became the subject of whispering and conversation. My best friend was black, and he gave me an afro comb because my mum couldn’t manage my hair.

>After my parents divorced when I was 12, we moved into a flat with a Rastafarian couple living upstairs, and the woman would take me up to their flat and I would feel at home. There was a salon where I got my hair canerowed. It was like being adopted or fostered by people who “got” you, or knew what you needed. It was at about that time that I heard the word “throwback”. I wasn’t sure what they were talking about. But in my mind there is no doubt that I have some African ancestry.

>In our early teens, both my brother and I developed nervous tics as a result of our experiences, so somebody suggested we did out-of-school activities to build up our confidence. My brother got into sport and I started doing youth theatre, where there was a black youth leader who would spend time with me. When rap and hip-hop hit the UK I got really intoxicated by it, and began to develop a sense of ownership of who I was through music and other aspects of black cultural expression. There was a local all-black body-popping crew, and at 18 I asked if I could join it. I strolled up and showed them my “robot”. (They later said they didn’t know if I was simple or just really confident, because nobody just asked to join a crew like that). The leader of the crew was of mixed parentage, and he reflected me back to myself.

>By 1995 I was living in Manchester, and got heavily involved in African-centred studies. This had a major impact on what I was bringing through as a mixed-heritage actor. As my interests developed, I began working as an assistant director around the country. I had been doing so for many years when this opportunity came up to apply for the two-year artistic development leadership programme bursary through Talawa Theatre Company, and I went for it. It isn’t about training to be a director but about developing leadership skills. Then, suddenly, a year into it, all these accusations start flying around about my white background – something I’ve never hidden.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/10/white-parents-african-ancestry-anthony-ekundayo-lennon

His mum's shagged a black man.
>> No. 16444 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 10:42 am
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>>16442

Excellent use of the "Message too long. Click here to view the full text."

I wish they had a family photo.
>> No. 16445 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 11:23 am
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>>16444
The Mail article has pictures of his parents and he certainly seems to have similar facial features to his Dad.

>Even more curiously, it emerges that Anthony is not the only family member to have been born looking as if he has black heritage. A cousin on his father’s side was also known for his dark skin and hair — so much so that he was, in the Fifties, given the racist nickname ‘Wamba Womba’ by neighbours in reference to the fact he looked almost black.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6373927/He-took-grant-black-actors-parents-white-read-bizarre-story.html

His Grandma shagged a black man.
>> No. 16446 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 12:57 pm
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>>16445

I think his apperance is probably a phenomena known as 'black irish' that is mostly anecdotal and therefore not well understood or documented, but has been reported as happening for hundreds of years.
>> No. 16447 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 5:07 pm
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>>16445
I guess it's just a genetic mutation or recessive genes.

His story is a bit bollocks though. Oh he loves hip-hop because he's black, of course. No white Irish fans of rap exist I guess.
>> No. 16448 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 6:46 pm
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>>16447
I've always found white boys who predominantly listen to rap music to be a little odd.
>> No. 16450 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 7:27 pm
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>>16448

I know what you mean, though I don't think it's a bad kind of odd. They're usually quite self-aware, particularly if they're involved in making/writing the music too.

The weirdest white boys I've met are the ones who are very into IDM and ambient type stuff. No, I don't want to talk about your monome.
>> No. 16454 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 8:30 pm
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>>16450

>No, I don't want to talk about your monome.
>> No. 16456 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 9:14 pm
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>>16454

Ptolomy's wine
>> No. 16457 Anonymous
10th November 2018
Saturday 9:29 pm
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>> No. 16458 Anonymous
11th November 2018
Sunday 2:11 pm
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>>16450

What about the white boys who quite like rap and electronic music?
>> No. 16459 Anonymous
11th November 2018
Sunday 3:01 pm
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>>16458

That describes myself, and I'm weird as fuck, but I like to think I get away with it.
>> No. 16460 Anonymous
11th November 2018
Sunday 6:03 pm
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>>16458
They'll catch a jpeg to the head!
>> No. 16510 Anonymous
17th November 2018
Saturday 11:10 pm
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>> No. 16513 Anonymous
17th November 2018
Saturday 11:40 pm
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