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>> No. 96261 Anonymous
8th July 2022
Friday 10:25 pm
96261 Tory Leadership Breakdown (2022)
Who's gonna' win? Who's gonna' lose?

Every former cabinet bod is running by the looks of it. I heard the 1922 Committee wanted to set some rules to make sure that didn't happen, but Kemi Badenoch just announced her bid so I think that ship's sailed.
Expand all images.
>> No. 96262 Anonymous
8th July 2022
Friday 10:43 pm
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These are the faces people trust to keep a lid on immigration.
>> No. 96263 Anonymous
8th July 2022
Friday 11:18 pm
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Alright, sorry, everyone, I didn't know a weirdo would instantly appear when I made this thread. I should have, but I didn't.
>> No. 96264 Anonymous
8th July 2022
Friday 11:26 pm
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And that's a good thing. The conservative voter base might vote for a woman, but there's no chance they'll vote for a brown. Starmer will walk it.

Thank fuck for identity politics.
>> No. 96265 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 1:07 am
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I can assure you they will. Liz Truss can't say foreigners are all rapists and parasites, because that's not PC, but all these Uncle Toms who grew up in mud huts throwing spears at aeroplanes can say absolutely anything they want. Whitey will have to fight this election with one hand behind his or her back.

But of course, the next Prime Minister will actually be Ben Wallace, because he is almost entirely scandal-free and has so far only ever been on the news when he's been heroic and great. And his skin tone is like if Mumford & Sons released their own brand of milk.
>> No. 96266 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 1:28 am
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Tom Tugendhat: Silly name, looks like a carpet-bagger, 20/1
Suella Braverman: Has the exact demeanour of a woman whose mid-life crisis involves Pascal White, 40/1
Liz Truss: Acts like a primary school teacher with a mild brain injury, 8/1
Steve Baker: Clever but weird, looks like a disgraced financial advisor, too Brexity for the Brexiteers, 20/1
Rishi Sunak: Has spent too much/not enough money, is ruining the economy by not cutting/not raising taxes enough, 6/1
Sajid Javid: Slightly brown goblin, 10/1
Nadhim Zahawi: Slightly brown Alan Sugar, 14/1
Jeremy Hunt: Wrecked the NHS, 20/1
Penny Mordaunt: Big tits, Backs Our Brave Boys and Brexit, slightly too sexy for her own good, 5/1
Ben Wallace: One of Our Brave Boys, wept for Our Brave Boys when the Americans betrayed us, reassuringly bald, 2/1
All the rest: 66/1 bar
>> No. 96267 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 1:32 am
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I always think of Nadhim Zahawi as Rishi Sunak's evil twin. Ideologically, they're pretty much the same. They're both slimy climbers of the worst possible sort. But Nadhim Zahawi is bald and has a goatee, like all evil twins.
>> No. 96268 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 1:36 am
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>I can assure you they will.

I don't think so. The conservative vote is facing a demographic crisis. I'm looking into the tea leaves a bit here, but I grew up amongst these sorts of people, and every time I talk to my mum it's like channelling the noosphere of Red Wall Britain directly.

Just imagine. The voters the Tories have been in power on the back of for the last ten years have been people who "wouldn't normally vote conservative", who were largely doing it for no other reason than the bellyfeels about immigrants (which is rooted in the real life supply vs demand effect of labour oversupply but that's a tangent we needn't necessarily go down in order to understand). They got what they wanted, they got Brexit done, the massive 2019 mandate Bozza kept banging on about was entirely rooted in the public's desire to just get it over with, and now it is over with.

So the Conservatives were going to have to pull something special out of the hat in order to actually keep those voters around regardless of any other circumstances. All that talk of levelling up and what have you- People would need to have seen they were actually getting something to stick with the Tories rather than just opportunistically siding with them until were were out of the EU's evil scheming clutches. That was always unlikely, even if the government as elected in 2019 had had the absolute best intentions of actually delivering on it- And look what's happened since then. Nothing but pissing directly in the faces of those very voters for nearly three full years.

HS2 northern leg cancelled. Not a single one of those 40 hospitals has appeared. Pisstaking parties, scandal after scandal. Massive inflation. Petrol prices through the roof. Heating prices through the roof. Everyone on strike. And after all that, if all of that wasn't already enough, they want to give us a laplander as PM?

These people will never vote Tory again.
>> No. 96269 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 2:01 am
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Oh, they're definitely not winning the next election. The Conservative Party, that is. But I would suggest that all the Red Wall voters who wouldn't normally vote Conservative probably aren't paid-up members of the party, so they won't be involved in this leadership election. You know them in real life and I don't, so perhaps I am wrong on that, but I think they will be largely ignored during the selection of the next party leader. This will probably mean more targeting of the traditional Daily Telegraph types; the candidate who best appeals to those people will be leader, because only those people will be voting this time. This was always Boris's quandary: he had to please everyone who voted for him, and so many people voted for him that he not only had to appeal to the leafy retired homeowners, but he also had to simultaneously be the man the traditional Labour voters wanted. He had to be Conservative and Labour at the same time, and this is why the party has descended into such massive internal conflict. Perhaps the Conservative membership will take into account their next leader's Norf appeal, but the demographics of the only people voting for the leader are far more Radio 4 than Talksport on this occasion.
>> No. 96270 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 2:10 am
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>These people will never vote Tory again.

They were never going to vote Tory again, regardless of the next Tory leader. The question is whether they're ever going to vote again. The kind of people who voted Tory for the first time in 2019 aren't necessarily aware that Labour and the Conservatives are different things, or that the Conservatives have been in power for the last 12 years.

Savile is probably coming back. He'll split the Tory vote, but I'm not sure that's a price worth paying to have to look at his odious face.
>> No. 96271 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 2:35 am
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Follow the posts back ladm9, the original claim was about how the public won't vote for a brown in a GE, not that the conservative membership won't choose a brown as leader.
>> No. 96272 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 2:59 am
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>The voters the Tories have been in power on the back of for the last ten years have been people who "wouldn't normally vote conservative"
This seems slightly idealistic. If you look back before Blair, the natural state of the country is to vote Conservative. People who don't normally vote Conservative are, traditionally, irrelevant unless they do something mad like vote SNP, or unless Conservative voters go Liberal or Labour in sufficient numbers to let Labour slip in. The government might've annoyed the red wall, but the whole point of the red wall seats was that they were places Labour tended to have held since Chamberlain was going on about peace in our time and that didn't stop Churchill or Macmillan or Thatcher or Major.

Now on the flipside: Maybe there's a demographic I'm overlooking, the of cases like Kensington-going-Red that Labour've been building up, which means we've quietly broken with our traditional distribution of votes in a way that stands to Labour's longer term advantage. If that happens (or, indeed, has been happening) then the Tories need to pick up traditional Labour seats to offset the losses.
(Actually, it'd be interesting to know which traditionally blue seats, if any, went red in 1997 and stayed that way from then on.)
>> No. 96273 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 3:48 am
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>This seems slightly idealistic. If you look back before Blair, the natural state of the country is to vote Conservative. People who don't normally vote Conservative are, traditionally, irrelevant unless they do something mad like vote SNP, or unless Conservative voters go Liberal or Labour in sufficient numbers to let Labour slip in.

The traditional logic of elections has been completely upended, but not everyone has realised it, least of all people in the media.

In the 1980s, you could reliably predict how someone would vote based on what their dad did for work. There were exceptions of course, but if your dad was a brickie you'd almost certainly vote for Labour and if your dad was an accountant you'd almost certainly vote Tory. That's no longer true - there's now almost no connection between traditional markers of social class and how people vote.

The biggest predictors now are age and level of education. Young people with degrees overwhelmingly vote Labour, older people without degrees overwhelmingly vote Tory. That creates a cities/towns split based on human geography - young people who go to university in a city tend to stay there. Dominic Cummings figured this out years before most people in politics, which was key to winning both the 2016 referendum and the 2019 general election.

Corbyn gets blamed for Labour's defeat in 2019, but he is much more of a symptom than a cause. It wasn't that Corbyn alienated core Labour voters - he represented what is now the core Labour vote, namely younger people with degrees. He alienated people who might have been core Labour voters twenty years ago but are now leaning heavily Tory. Setting aside the problems specific to Corbyn, Labour failed to recognise this shift and campaigned with the wrong messages in the wrong places, winning votes they didn't need and losing votes that they did. Cummings recognised that places like Workington and Leigh weren't Labour strongholds any more and would be easy pickings for the Tories if they just put the bare minimum of effort into trying to gain them.

The inverse of this is that a lot of wealthy suburbs in the south east are creeping towards Labour's demographic. They might have been solid Tory seats since time immemorial, but young professionals moving out of London are starting to make those seats look more like Islington. If Labour catch on to this and the next Tory leadership doesn't, they could pick up dozens of seats easily by simply recognising that they're now winnable.

That electoral strategy might not be very appealing to die-hard socialists, but that's the point - you can't win an election by making yourself even more popular amongst your hardcore loyalists, because everyone only gets one vote. You can only win an election by having broad appeal and the easiest people for Labour to win over are educated, cosmopolitan, pro-European voters who are small-c conservatives, always used to vote Tory but feel alienated from a party that is increasingly populist and nationalist. Labour are looking very strong going into the next election, but they have a clear path to a landslide if they recognise that their key battlegrounds aren't where everyone thinks.
>> No. 96276 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 7:51 am
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My dark horse is Tobias "Westminster Attack Hero" Ellwood, but I'm hoping it's Mordaunt for obvious reasons.

They've both got better military credentials than baldy.
>> No. 96277 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 10:09 am
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Is he even running? I guess most of them are. A quick a scan doesn't reveal him to be a complete loon, which is all I'm hoping to avoid. I've no idea how the Tory leadership contest actually works, but I think they can the no-hopers as it goes along, right? I don't think one of the nuttier ones can win with 8% because the field's so packed, but Christ knows right now. We're hurtling towards a financial crisis, caused by an already present cost of living crisis, no matter who wins, the least we can do is avoid some culture war shitehawk or religious freak presiding over it all. If anyone thinks I want to talk about the council's bogs while my diabetic nan's worried about turning the central heating on I'll glass them; .gs poster, prime minister, I'll get them.
>> No. 96279 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 1:51 pm
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Ben Wallace has decided not to run for leader after all: https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1545732698567737344

I'd just like to admire his 4D chess move to pull out and leave only nutters to ruin the party in the long term. What a great man he is.
>> No. 96280 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 2:57 pm
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You might want to look at the whole 'lemon curd' connection with Jeffrey Archer. Nadhim Zahawi won't be PM.

>HS2 northern leg cancelled. Not a single one of those 40 hospitals has appeared. Pisstaking parties, scandal after scandal. Massive inflation. Petrol prices through the roof. Heating prices through the roof. Everyone on strike. And after all that, if all of that wasn't already enough, they want to give us a laplander as PM?

You're nearly there. They know people so desperately want things but they also know they would be fools to actually let the donkey have the carrot. I do question how much wasn't delivered simply because of arguments between No10 and No11 over the balance sheet but in the grand scheme of things you really have to wonder why anyone votes.

>The conservative vote is facing a demographic crisis

Never heard those words before.

Why is your diabatic nan flicking the heating on during a heatwave?
>> No. 96281 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 4:02 pm
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>Why is your diabatic nan flicking the heating on during a heatwave?
Do you think the leadership contest will be over within a week or something? I'm talking about the future of government.
>> No. 96282 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 4:32 pm
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ARE Priti has started to lay out her policy successes on twitter

Imagine it, our American friends will surely celebrate a woman of colour becoming Prime Minister as a victory against racism and the patriarchy.
>> No. 96283 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 4:58 pm
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1.5 weeks.
>The Conservative Party committee overseeing the contest to select British Prime Minister Boris Johnson's replacement will look to whittle it down to two names by July 20, one of its members said on Saturday.
>> No. 96284 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 5:24 pm
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>"I think that we will be able to frame a process to actually come up with two names by the time parliament goes down on the 20th of July," he said. "We should have an answer by the time of the party conference in October and maybe before that."
I've sent texts longer than that article, you clown. The least you could do is finish reading it before acting like you can inform anyone about what's going on. On the plus side you have displayed the required intellectual rigour to secure a mid-level cabinet position, congrats.

>It is thought that the timetable, agreed by the 1922 Committee and Tory Party HQ, could see Mr Johnson replaced as leader by early September, despite initial suggestions that he could remain in place until October.
>i reported that Sir Graham is likely to recommend a quicker timetable, with a six-week leadership contest that would finish when Parliament returns from recess.
>This would mean the election is a similar length to the process to replace Theresa May in 2019, which took about 40 days.
>> No. 96285 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 5:35 pm
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Zawahi looks like an evil professor from a Marvel film, and for that reason I shan't be voting for him.
>> No. 96286 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 5:55 pm
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Is it just me or does Liz Truss look like a bit Thatchery in that picture?
>> No. 96287 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 6:15 pm
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These people look more like the cast of a low effort ITV knock-off of The Apprentice than rulers of a country. I really can't imagine how they're going to cling to power after this.

Has there ever been a faster turnaround from overwhelming majority to absolute shambles in British politics?
>> No. 96288 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 7:46 pm
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She certainly looks absolutely nothing like Liz Truss, although I don't really get Thatcher vibes. If she looks like anyone, it's Fanny Cradock.
>> No. 96289 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 8:31 pm
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Wallace is out, so it looks like our next PM will have big knockers and an air of sexual intrigue.

>> No. 96290 Anonymous
9th July 2022
Saturday 9:01 pm
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Gordon Brown if you do some creative accounting with inherited majorities, but that's about it. He's managed to underperform May, Callaghan and Heath.
>> No. 96291 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 9:57 am
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Zahawi's under investigation for dodgy tax dealings. It's all falling into place for Mordaunt.
>> No. 96292 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 10:05 am
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Are any of our intrepid newsheads asking Shapps about all that bullying-until-suicide he enabled and the scams he used to run, pretended he didn't, and then copped to it anyway? You'd think the Conservatives would be able to have at most one two-bit crook currently sitting as or competing to be the next PM, but remarkably that's beyond them.
>> No. 96293 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 10:44 am
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hidamari sketch wide.jpg
I'm going to say it: I don't fancy Penny Mordaunt. She's oddly wide, not like she's fat but just like she's been stretched sideways somehow.

But then, Suella Braverman pronounces her own name wrong, and Kemi Badenoch isn't fit at all, so I guess that only leaves Liz Truss among the lady candidates.
>> No. 96294 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:21 am
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It's ultimately a vote on whether the nation prefers tits (Mordaunt) or arse (Patel).
>> No. 96295 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 12:29 pm
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The Tory leadership process is a bit weird: the MPs whittle it down to the top two candidates, and then the party members get to vote on them.

This leads to some odd incentives, as this article in the Spectator points out:

Everyone agrees that Jeremy Hunt has no chance, which means that everyone wants him to be on the ballot, along with their preferred candidate.

So it's really not that much about who will be popular with the gammons in the shires - it will come down to whoever the MPs choose amongst themselves, plus a no-hoper.
>> No. 96296 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 7:08 pm
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Why do the all keep mentioning woke? Is it some massive issue that I am not aware of? And what does it really mean? Just stuff like toilets for transsexuals and that sort? I'm so confused that I started suspecting that I am in a comedy simulation.
>> No. 96297 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 7:20 pm
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Woke is the latest version of PC gawn mad. Why come up with anything of substance when you can stand against something as nebulous as woke nonsense? It's not like they can outright say "there's too many black people on the TV these days."
>> No. 96298 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 7:25 pm
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They can't say they've worked wonders with the economy, because they haven't. They can't coast to victory on having Got Brexit Done™, because the centrists won that one and it changed absolutely nothing. Nothing has been levelled up, and yet taxes haven't gone down. There was some Prime Minister many decades ago, possibly in the 1960s, who was reelected basically by asking, "Are things better now than when I was first elected?", and it worked, because for a lot of people, they were.

But also, the intense reactionary disapproval towards letting a man in a dress go in the women's changing rooms at the swimming pool with your daughter is pretty much the only thing that all Conservative voters can agree on now. It's the base level of Conservatism. Start there, and worry about actual policies later, preferably once another candidate has announced their policies, and you've been able to gauge how popular they are. Don't act; react. It's exactly the level of leadership I would expect from these professional bootlickers.
>> No. 96299 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 7:29 pm
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It doesn't really mean anything while gesturing at all sorts of things. Arrogant trendy uni students and their fancy diets. Gender neutral bathrooms. That one headline you half remember about "birthing persons". Labour councils not giving you black bin bags because it's racist. (I remember when that one was called political correctness.) The BBC letting people with comedy interpretations of regional accents speak. The highway code changing to give cyclists right of way. People being sacked for their tweets, not that you've ever had it to happen to anyone you personally know or moderated your own insane tweeting in response, but you know it's out there. Black Lives Matter. Keir Starmer's stupid voice. Women wearing trousers. The way all those adverts have weird multi racial families. When they made you wear a mask in the shop. 20 something women with an inflated sense of self-worth. That stupid corporate artstyle all the websites have nowadays that looks like a shit version of the deformed clipart people from Word 2003. That sickly feeling you get when you look at some hobby and find some gay bloke half your age but twice your skill level because you never really put the effort in.

Unless, of course, you like any of those things, or you don't think they fit with your personal interpretation of a general vibe, in which case that's not woke. Stare into the inkblot and tell me about your mum and dad, then vote for me to be Tory leader and I'll legislate so that you can fuck and kill 'em in whichever order you so please.
>> No. 96300 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 7:39 pm
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It's the term adopted a few years ago by the intersectional liberal post-left. Like every other term they have adopted over the years, it quickly turned into a pejorative, because absolutely nobody likes them.

When used by a conservative, it's just a vague reactionary gesture towards fisherpersons (but not the TE flavour of fisherperson), trans people, BLM supporters, and so on.
>> No. 96301 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 8:38 pm
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>Why come up with anything of substance when you can stand against something as nebulous as woke nonsense? It's not like they can outright say "there's too many black people on the TV these days."

Woke comes from the left though. The clue is in the positive term itself, to be 'woke' as opposed to asleep (and ignorant). It's not without good criticism as many 'woke' things are just a weird uncomfortable form of, if not racism then something else. And I quite like a good kip.

There's now a whole industry of people who spend all day coming up with this bollocks and popularising it. Terms like 'equity' replacing equality in a kind of slow unpicking of the enlightenment that normal people resent. It's easy to tap into this for political ends and relatively cheap to push against as it's almost entirely vacuous and melts under a microscope - for example when unconscious bias faced pushback and everyone realised it's a pseudoscience that called innocent people racists and whose creator never wanted it to be imposed in the workplace.

I'm losing my thread but when pitching to the Conservative Party you obviously want to be 1. Tax shy (although Rishi seems to be more pragmatic) 2. Willing to piss off vegan cyclists that want to nationalise your bathroom.

What does any of this have to do with winning a party election?
>> No. 96302 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 9:05 pm
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All of this. The thing people forget is that the candidates are being whittled down by the current crop of Tory MPs, and the final decision between two will be made by fully paid-up Tory members.

Basically, in order to understand the forces involved, imagine that the head of the Department of Health was up for election, but only meth addicts get to vote. Suddenly, most of the candidates promising free meth makes sense.
>> No. 96303 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 9:18 pm
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I could have sworn that "woke" was, for at least a time, some weird conspiracy thing. I remember videos on YouTube of the rapper Vinnie Paz, who is roughly on a par with David Icke once he gets going, and all the comments were praising him for being woke to how the world really is, while so many other rappers were depressingly "slept". This might have been his song about "the skeletons on the moon, and how they cloned Barack Hussein Obama in a test tube".

Here's the song, if you'd like to scroll through thousands of YouTube comments by mentally ill people:

Anyway, to answer your question about how these things matter in a party election, remember that the last vote gets handled by the party members, who probably won't be as involved in the tactical grappling that MPs worry about. There's also every possibility that there will be a general election soon even if the Conservatives don't want that, just because Labour are going to start calling for one every week once we're all taking orders from World King Saj. And World King Saj would like to start his campaigning early.
>> No. 96304 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 9:23 pm
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I think it started out as just meaning enlightened, in the sense of being educated (usually self-educated, so applied to conspiracy theorists as much as anything).
>> No. 96305 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 10:05 pm
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I'm going to bash together a theory out of thin air: The type of people "woke" is mainly used to describe never called themselves woke. It's used to describe what were called "SJWs" until that went out of fashion, but conveniently it went out of fashion during one of BLM's peaks. Since many BLM activists would call themselves "woke" and many "SJWs" would support BLM (and equally: many "Anti-SJWs" would oppose BLM), it was very easy to slam the two together even though SJWs, who did describe themselves with the language of "social justice", never actually used "woke" to describe themselves. (Which would've been both profoundly awkward and cultural appropriation from AAVE.)
Maybe "Woke SJWs" was the intermediate evolutionary stage.
>> No. 96306 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 10:14 pm
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>just because Labour are going to start calling for one every week once we're all taking orders from World King Saj

I'm not so sure about that, we've already had one two changes of leadership and a new GE hasn't been front and centre of Labour's messaging. You can last point to Brown but that was quite exceptional as the party didn't vote and he cancelled his own election.

That's not to say that Labour won't call for one on Wednesday but it would be a very brave half of the Conservative Party who would have to defy the whip for it to pass.
>> No. 96307 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 10:15 pm
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The original meaning of woke before white middle class people on Twitter started calling themselves it, was a quite specifically black thing. It originated in the 70s/80s with the old guard Black Panther types, about being aware of things like the CIA selling drugs in black communities to fund their South American operations. So ironically enough, you could say it was culturally appropriated.
>> No. 96308 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 10:30 pm
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>The phrase stay woke had emerged in AAVE by the 1930s, in some contexts referring to an awareness of the social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in a recording by Lead Belly and later by Erykah Badu. Following the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri in 2014, the phrase was popularised by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After seeing use on Black Twitter, the term woke became an Internet meme and was increasingly used by white people, often to signal their support for BLM, which some commentators have criticised as cultural appropriation. Mainly associated with the millennial generation, the term spread internationally and was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017.

It's an Americanism and therefore automatically wrong. What we need is our own British form of racial awareness, one that represents the unique cultural experience of minorities in Britain - I propose S-Clubbers.
>> No. 96309 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 10:37 pm
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>The type of people "woke" is mainly used to describe never called themselves woke

Yes, they did, and they always say this too. You'll notice they've finally figured out it's best not to stick to any consistent label though, because every one they've tried so far (SJW was the one before woke) has been turned against them.

The really interesting thing about it is that genuine, honest to god card carrying wokies are pretty rare. Much rarer than the reactionaries who rely on them as a bogeyman to build a platform around, certainly- But they do exist. It's just that where they do exist, they tend to be well connected academics, journalists, and PMC social climbers. They carry an outsized influence within their sphere, and while their effects on the world outside that sphere may often be overstated, the dichotomy between the ingroup and the outgroup is certainly something that contributes to the sense of polarisation in modern social/political discourse.

I mean, just read an American rag like the NYT or WaPo. It's hard to imagine that's at all representative of the average American's views. Much like our own Graun opinion section, it's full of total waffle it's hard to imagine the everyday person giving a fuck about, but in the social circles these people come up in (journalism being one of those fields still entirely absent any reliable way for working class people to break into) presenting oneself as progressive is essential, their own way of reckoning an opposition to the dominant centre-right establishment without confronting the uncomfortable fact they're all exactly the same kind of spoiled trust fund brats.

But I digress.

Overall my point is that in real terms, "woke" people are a very small niche cultural demographic, but they tend to constitute a segment of society that wields disproportionate influence, with the ultimate outcome that we simultaneously have it pushed down our throats constantly, despite the fact none of it is really all that commonplace in reality; and that it frustrates the effort of more grounded materialist opposition to the status quo to have its voice heard.
>> No. 96310 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:02 pm
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>Yes, they did, and they always say this too.
It's a prick move, but I'd like you to produce proof: Go dig up some white acrobat accounts circa 2018-20 calling themselves "Woke" without irony. Maybe as a cheap second best, dig up a newspaper or magazine article doing it before it became a term of abuse. If you want to play on hard mode: do so in a context independent of American racial issues. Find a white girl saying she's woke on gender. I can't say I actually expect you to do either (I'd probably tell you to fuck off if you asked me) but it's what I'd need to see to believe it - I've seen an countless cases of people who came close enough to calling themselves SJWs (usually just "social justice", the 'warrior' part being less common but not an unreasonable extension) but not a single 'woke'. I've a passing familiarity with most types of digital nutter and that's just one I've never seen.
It's not even a phrase that carries very well for that sort of self-identification. "I'm a social justice advocate" is something I'd still find half acceptable in a bio today. "I'm a social justice warrior" would be very antiquated irony, but I can run with it. "I'm Woke" doesn't really work. "The Social Justice Community" perhaps, but "The Woke Community" is a band name.

Though I'd like to propose an alternative candidate on the etymology: Via the phrase "Woke capitalism" or "Corporate Wokeness". A similar flow though: BLM > Awkward Pepsi Advertising tries to solve racism > Woke Capital > Woke. Never once passing through a white mouth without irony on the brain or dollar signs in the eyes.
>> No. 96311 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:11 pm
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The biggest, and maybe only, difference I see and hear between "woke" and "SJW" is that I don't remember mainstream, national, politcians arguing back and to about who was more of an SJW. It's very insidious how this bollocks goes mainstream. Almost no one, and I mean that literally, in the UK would have used the term to describe themselves. Now the future PM is likely wielding it as a weapon against his or her rivals.
>> No. 96312 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:16 pm
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>> No. 96313 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:21 pm
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I'm obviously not going to jump through your ridiculous hoops but I will give you my word that I distinctly remember a brief period where online nutters would put it in their bios and what have you. It was always in that context of how like, they have three or four bullet points about themselves with emojis, you know, like how girls on dating apps put:

homeowner 🏘️
dog mum 🐶
cocktails 🍸

I distinctly remember matching a girl on Tinder around 2016 who had it in her bio. Previously I had assumed it was a more general term meaning someone was skeptical of authority/mainstream media; I remember this instance clearly because the conversation I had with her was the specific moment I realised it actually meant someone is a wanker.
>> No. 96314 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:28 pm
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The rabbit hole deepens: https://splinternews.com/how-woke-went-from-black-activist-watchword-to-teen-int-1793853989
>"Woke" can also refer, mockingly, to (white) people whose perspectives on race change suddenly after learning about historical injustice. (e.g. "You talked to Brad recently? He read some Ta-Nehesi Coates and now he thinks he's woke.")
Circa 2016!
You've even got SJWs doing using it as an insult! https://jezebel.com/world-weeps-in-gratitude-for-woke-hungarian-who-did-7-t-1751448258 It's "political correctness" all over again!

Then you've the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/earning-the-woke-badge.html which is interesting because it starts with the implication it's something people want to be, but pretty quickly catches on to that negativity. (My current explanation for never seeing it used unironically: For the 15 minutes it was a positive, it was like "cool" - you don't say how cool you are if you're actually cool.)
>Defanged of its political connotations, “stay woke” is the new “plugged in.” In January, MTV announced “woke” as a trendy new slice of teen slang. As Brock said, “The original cultural meaning of ‘stay woke’ gets lost in the shuffle.”
>And so those who try to signal their wokeness by saying “woke” have revealed themselves to be very unwoke indeed. Now black cultural critics have retooled “woke” yet again, adding a third layer that claps back at the appropriators. “Woke” now works as a dig against those who claim to be culturally aware and yet are, sadly, lacking in self-awareness. In a sharp essay for The Awl, Maya Binyam coined the term “Woke Olympics,” a “kind of contest” in which white players compete to “name racism when it appears” or condemn “fellow white folk who are lagging behind.”

Go back before 2016 and it's practically dead. You get https://blavity.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-woke where a black woman writes about what it means and that's about it. Disappointingly, a look for acrobat pages only gave me "Woke up this morning..." type posts. I wanted some mid-2010s nostalgia. (And I can say: I am woke to how depressing that phrase is.)
>> No. 96315 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:43 pm
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We've no evidence aliens didn't build the pyramids either lad, stop embarrassing yourself.

People definitely called themselves woke, it was very brief and almost immediately become uncool as soon as the other side (mainly /pol/ in those days) got hold of it, but it happened. I don't know why you're so obsessed with this. What point are you trying to prove?

SJW was more likely a pejorative from the very start, and likewise with the counterpart label of "alt right", I don't think anyone ever went up to Alt Right Headquarters for their membership card (it had a picture of Pepe the Frog on it). But people certainly did call themselves woke, once upon a time.
>> No. 96316 Anonymous
10th July 2022
Sunday 11:58 pm
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Jesus wept.
>> No. 96317 Anonymous
11th July 2022
Monday 12:02 am
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It is absolutely fucking mental, but I think it might just be perfectly attuned to the target audience.

Also this:

>> No. 96318 Anonymous
11th July 2022
Monday 12:23 am
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"People" is too broad a category. Of course people did - black people. The unicorn I'm hunting is a white person doing it without irony, running along with the idea that "Woke" becoming a near synonym of "SJW" owes more to confabulation and misinterpreted jest than to actual self-identification. (Although Black SJWs could call themselves woke, the archetypal SJW is white.)
Another part of is trying to see how the term became deracialised over time. Not everything is about making some deep intellectual point - sometimes it's just an excuse to dig back through the rubble of the last 5 years doing something stupid like looking at how people you'd never have anything to do with were using words you'd never say.

"Social Justice Warrior" was ( https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/12387-live-hope-at-the-hideout/ ) and still is ( https://law.duke.edu/news/mcallaster-leaves-legacy-transformative-clinician-social-justice-warrior-and-policy-advocate/ ) occasionally used as a straightforward lionisation. I suspect it came to be an insult through some degree of ironic usage (self-describing yourself as a warrior is a bit self-aggrandizing) but the "social justice" part of it was original - people would definitely go around saying they were into social justice. That's why I find it interesting.
>> No. 96319 Anonymous
11th July 2022
Monday 12:53 am
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No; I'm with him. I was reading well-known iconic bastion of wokeness cracked.com every day throughout the entire 2010s. If anyone was going to promote wokeness, they would have. They might have done it ironically a few times once it became a negative ("Yes, I am one of those woke people you keep hearing about, just because I believe that love is love and rights for Latinx BIPOC folx are human rights!"), but there was never a Top 10 Woke Things You Must Embrace. There was a Top 6 Reasons Why Everything In History Is The Fault Of White People which certainly caused a fair bit of outrage, but the word "woke" was largely invisible.

Pioneering underground female rapper Snow Tha Product was signed to an indie record label called Woke Records, and she namechecks them in the opening lines of her best song:

That came out in 2015, and clearly "woke" was still a black thing rather than a social justice thing back then.
>> No. 96320 Anonymous
11th July 2022
Monday 1:03 am
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Well, if I could find you that Tinder profile, you would have your unicorn mate. It was a white lass who had dreads and wore yoga pants with tie-dye patterns on them and she had mandalas up on the wall in her pictures. Her bio read something like "hippy, yoga instructor, psychedelic enthusiast, woke".

100% genuinely, she was not the only one I saw during that time period.
>> No. 96321 Anonymous
11th July 2022
Monday 1:37 am
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Here's another one: does anyone ever call themselves a leftist? In theory, it's a neutral term, and it probably even gets used on the news sometimes to describe Panamanian guerrillas and Bolivian paramilitaries and so on. But whenever I hear the word "leftist", it is always, always in a negative context. You could make the same point about "lefty" too, come to think of it.
>> No. 96322 Anonymous
11th July 2022
Monday 2:06 am
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Not >>96320 but I can snapshot you a woman's bio right now who is looking for a lefty bloke if you want. It's not an uncommon identity people adopt.

I've not said anything because she goes on to talk about taking a critical lens to society and is quite clearly very political.
>> No. 96323 Anonymous
11th July 2022
Monday 11:04 am
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Rehman Chishti (who?) has also entered the race. I have never heard of this man in my life. He was born in Muzaffarabad, laplanderstan, and was an advisor to Benazir Bhutto from 1999 to 2007. In December 2007, Benazir Bhutto was assassinated. So I guess he was giving her pretty good advice, at least.
>> No. 96324 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 2:01 pm
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There'll be no PAAG PM this year, lads.
>> No. 96325 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 2:17 pm
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It seems to be turning into quite a bloody campaign, at least against Rishi. I suppose the advantage of being so junior and posh is you don't have as many skeletons in the closet.
>> No. 96326 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 2:25 pm
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There are so many levels of weird conspiratorial tactics in this kind of situation that I almost support Rishi purely by virtue of the fact that the rest of his party hates him. Same as Boris, in fact.
>> No. 96327 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 2:34 pm
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If I see the fucking SoS one more time….jpg
>Priti Patel rules herself out of contest

What the fuck, she probably could've walked it if she wanted to be PM.
>> No. 96328 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 2:44 pm
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Mediocre feet. 6/10.
>> No. 96329 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 2:54 pm
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Ben Wallace could have too. I think the ones with proper aspirations would rather be Prime Minister at a time when they aren't going to be a despised figure of ridicule presiding over a recession and economic catastrophe. We're getting a new Theresa May from this one, not a new someone-good.
>> No. 96330 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 3:04 pm
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>Tory leadership contender Kemi Badenoch has branded the net zero climate target “unilateral economic disarmament” and vowed to axe it if elected.
>No gender neutral toilets allowed at Kemi Badenoch's Tory leadership launch - masking tape signs were stuck on the loos turning generic facilities into those for “men” and “ladies”
>Penny Mordaunt and Kemi Badenoch are the top choices among Tory party members to take over as leader from Boris Johnson, new polling suggests.

There's going to be a severe culture war cunt-off between her and Penny over trans rights. I suspect Kemi will next attack fat women and pictures will reveal 'live, laugh, love' signage in her home.
>> No. 96331 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 3:09 pm
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Kemi Badenoch is clearly an absolute psychopath. And yet we all know that any sort of social media abuse or watermelon emoji would send her scurrying to cry for tolerance and kindness. She sounds awful.
>> No. 96332 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 3:16 pm
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Is she likely to get the 20 nominations she needs from other MPs?

It's gonna be Dishy Rishi vs. Marvellous Mama Mordaunt.
>> No. 96333 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 3:27 pm
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I can see her getting 20, maybe 30 on Thursday but will need to make a lot of noise to get anywhere. She's got the backing of Gove though so it's almost certain he will knife her and make a show of it being about LGBT rights.

This new LotR series is going too far if you ask me.
>> No. 96334 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 3:33 pm
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Rishi is very small. We can't have a small leader.
>> No. 96335 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 3:34 pm
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There are more versions of Mordaunt's campaign launch video than there are Blade Runner edits.
>> No. 96336 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 3:38 pm
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Penny's feet also mediocre, but not as good as Priti's. 5/10. Need to see Kemi's to make a fair overall judgment. Have no interest in seeing Truss' feet, thanks.
>> No. 96337 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 4:50 pm
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He towers over the other four in the OP picture. It's like we're being governed by gnomes.
>> No. 96338 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 5:13 pm
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>> No. 96339 Anonymous
12th July 2022
Tuesday 10:22 pm
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The elimination has started! We have gone down from eleven hopefuls to eight:

So the current selection, in alphabetical order, is Kemi Badenoch, Suella Braverman, Rehman Chishti, Jeremy Hunt, Sajid Javid, Penny Mordaunt, Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, Tom Tugendhat, Ben Wallace and Nadhim Zahawi.

They just spoke to two high-profile endorsers of Liz Truss on the BBC Ten O'Clock News, and they were Nadine Dorries and Jacob Rees-Mogg, so I don't think she'll last. As it stands, I guess my favourite is probably Tom Tugendhat because I don't know much about him but he seems to hate a lot of his party just like I do. So his campaign will probably end tomorrow as well. Hopefully Kemi and Suella's campaigns will end too, since they're competing with each other to be the most mental fascist possible.
>> No. 96340 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 12:14 am
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If Nadine Dorries is behind you, watch out for whatever's in front of you.
>> No. 96341 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 12:17 am
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The problem with Tom Tugendhat is that everyone hates him as well and his career and policy positions can be boiled down to 'I was in the army once'. This includes amateurish ideas like using 'army experts' to slash waiting times.

I can't wait for the custard round.
>> No. 96342 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 12:44 am
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You know I'd have expected Rees Mogg to go for it. He's a bastard through and through, but he's apparently the only person left in the party with more than six brain cells. You might say that's exactly why he knows better than to become leader, but surely he realises it's his duty to save the party from the certain oblivion it faces in the hands of any of his utterly useless colleagues?
>> No. 96343 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 1:57 am
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JRM has too much respect for Parliament and its customs and conventions to take on a position where he'd now be expected to defy them so flagrantly.
>> No. 96344 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 7:22 am
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It's a good job Ellwood didn't stand for PM because his campaign would be over now that he's been accused of running over a cat and driving off.

>> No. 96345 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 7:45 am
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Apparenly a slight bump in economic growth means we've dodged an official recession, I wonder which one of these plonkers will reverse that?

>amateurish ideas like using 'army experts' to slash waiting times.
It's quite amazing how devoid of ideas any of these people are. Honest Tommy's supposed to be the clever one too, and his brightest idea is "what if a hospital was like a tank?".
>> No. 96346 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 11:09 am
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My understanding is that a recession would utterly smash the inflation, and to avoid a recession now is to perpetuate the high inflation for longer than necessary. I saw somewhere that they were looking at triggering a recession on purpose in America as a potential answer to the inflation. So whatever governments do right now, it can be argued that it was the wrong decision.
>> No. 96347 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 1:59 pm
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Mordaunt is now favourite to win and its easy to see why.


>> No. 96348 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 2:30 pm
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You're about three days late to the punch on that one.

Mordaunt is my favourite for at least two reasons.
>> No. 96349 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 3:34 pm
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I'm starting to kind of think that I've somehow willed this into being by posting about how lovely looking Mordaunt is for several years.

Anyway, what's happening with this no confidence vote?
>> No. 96350 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 3:40 pm
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I do not understand the point of this no confidence vote at all. It's not binding so it quite literally doesn't matter, it probably wouldn't pass anyway and so the whole point is Labour telling everyone "we don't like this shambolic Tory government", as best as I can tell at least. If anyone has a better grasp of it's purpose do tell me.
>> No. 96351 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 3:47 pm
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>I do not understand the point of this no confidence vote at all. It's not binding so it quite literally doesn't matter
It is binding. If the motion passes, the government has to resign.
>> No. 96352 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 3:55 pm
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>Anyway, what's happening with this no confidence vote?

Labour wanted it to name the PM to bring some confused Tory rebellion so Kier Stammer could in turn make a fun quip. This was dumb because the government just changed the wording next week to a more general test which they'll obviously bury the opposition on.

Obviously there's nothing better you could do at the moment where you might otherwise get a wing of the Tories to vote on a given issue. Nothing that could get a quip anyway.
>> No. 96353 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 4:05 pm
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If Starmer's supposedly a hotshot lawyer why didn't he use his legal brains to stop the Tories pulling a fast one on him?

Was he actually a top lawyer? I know he was Director of Public Prosecutions, which sounds fancy and everything but it's still the public sector. I can't imagine the best lawyers work in the public sector.
>> No. 96354 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 4:16 pm
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It's not really a fast one; it's just how it works. You need a majority to do basically anything in parliament. He doesn't have one and the Conservatives do, and that's why they're in charge. You can, if you want, call a motion of no confidence in the government, but it will only be voted on if the government itself agrees to allow it. If the polls looked like they'd win a new election, the government could allow it, call a new general election, and effectively reset the clock until there has to be another election. But the polls say they would lose, so instead, the government refused go allow the confidence vote. But that looks bad, so now they're calling their own vote of no confidence in themselves, so they can pass it and tell everyone it's them who support democracy really. If Labour had called it, that would make the Conservatives look weak, and therefore some MPs would vote against their own party and potentially force the election they don't want. But this way, MPs are less likely to rebel and so the exact same vote is effectively harmless now.
>> No. 96355 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 4:35 pm
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>You can, if you want, call a motion of no confidence in the government, but it will only be voted on if the government itself agrees to allow it.
The rule is that if the Leader of the Opposition puts down a motion of no confidence, the Government will rearrange its business to hear the motion on the next sitting day. The Government business people have invented some artificial rule that it needs to only be about the Government, despite confidence motions in the past being taken up with direct criticism of the PM in them.

>therefore some MPs would vote against their own party and potentially force the election they don't want.
Typically when your party's in government, you'll get a three-line whip to vote down a motion of no confidence. You will have serious questions to answer either way - if you don't vote no, you'll have to deal wtih the whips and the constituency party (who may deselect you); if you do vote no, you'll have your constituents to deal with (who may vote for someone else instead). You need to remember that the people with direct agency here are not the voters at large but party insiders and paid-up members, who are currently seem to be somewhat detached from the rest of the population.

They may be pressed on what their position actually is, since 140 of them voted against him at the '22, over 60 left the Government, but now they're being asked whether they have confidence in the very same government. On any conventional reading, whether the PM is in the motion or not, the Tories are surviving this, but optics matter.
>> No. 96356 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 5:15 pm
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And the first round of votes are in!

Kemi Badenoch - 40 votes
Suella Braverman - 32
Rehman Chishti
Jeremy Hunt !!!
Sajid Javid
Penny Mordaunt - 67
Grant Shapps
Rishi Sunak - 88
Liz Truss - 50
Tom Tugendhat - 37
Ben Wallace
Nadhim Zahawi

Two more votes for Penny, and she'd have had 69.
>> No. 96357 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 5:21 pm
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I'd certainly give her one.
>> No. 96358 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 5:23 pm
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Ladies and Gentlemen, the Tory shit sandwich.
>> No. 96359 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 5:25 pm
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Screenshot 2022-07-13 172527.jpg
No need to be racist, lad.
>> No. 96360 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 10:30 pm
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That's what you are reading into it. I would never insinuate that an ethnic minority candidate is shit because he or she's an ethnic minority. But candidates who are shit can by sheer coincidence, and without any relevance to their quality of being shit, also be a member of an ethnic minority.
>> No. 96361 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 10:43 pm
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>> No. 96362 Anonymous
13th July 2022
Wednesday 11:54 pm
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>> No. 96363 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 12:00 am
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You can't really make fun of him for not knowing about mad neo-Nazi shite.
>> No. 96364 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 3:07 am
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Depends how old you are. If you were born in 1988 then it's inevitable that if you have 88 in a username you will inevitably be accused of being a white supremacist at some point, particularly if you post an opinion that's to the right of Jeremy Corbyn.
>> No. 96365 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 9:14 am
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So you thought there were reasonable odds he had been born in 1988, used only "88" in an online handle at some stage, engaged in a political debate in which he expressed right-wing or even centrist sentiment, and was then accused of being a neo-Nazi at which point he is to have assumed "it must be my username" and looked up the relavence of the number 88 in far-right subcultures? I think your logic subroutines are fried. It'd be better for everyone if we took you offline.
>> No. 96366 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 9:19 am
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We've established by now every poster is early to mid thirties, other than the lad who bought an MX-5 because of his mid-life crisis.
>> No. 96367 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 11:24 am
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I just know it because I know things. I know what an otherkin is too.
>> No. 96368 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 1:39 pm
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This has to be the least flattering photo I have ever seen of anyone. She looks like a puppet, like she might be helping Sooty bake a cake or being rescued by the Thunderbirds.
>> No. 96369 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 2:07 pm
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She reminds me of this wojak.
>> No. 96370 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 2:55 pm
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Truss has to be Labour's best hope for the next general election. I've no idea who the MPs whom supported the likes of Hunt in the last round will vote in this round.
>> No. 96371 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 3:17 pm
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She's goofy, but Kemi and Suella the Despotic Duo have both been encouraged to drop out and "unite the right" behind Liz Truss. So even though she seems to be the "Boris's policies minus Boris" candidate, I can only assume she is also going to reveal herself to be a culture-war nutter fairly soon.
>> No. 96372 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 3:23 pm
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And Suella Braverman is the next one voted out of the Tory Big Brother house. We are down to only two of the candidates in the OP image still being in the race.
>> No. 96373 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 4:25 pm
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>I can only assume she is also going to reveal herself to be a culture-war nutter fairly soon

Come on lad. We had a thread about this.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up her being humiliated by Sergei Lavrov and the subsequent disappearance of her from public view for Boris and the bald bloke. If she had stayed with the trade portfolio then I imagine her chances would be much better than now where she's in dire need of a demotion and the party knows it.

Either way it looks like our next PM will be a white woman.
>> No. 96374 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 4:37 pm
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Judging entirely on the results of the last two white women to lead the Tory party, that means we're either going for the world's shittest rendition of 1987 or 2017 with the top roles going to sociopaths rather than autistics.
>> No. 96375 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 8:38 pm
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>> No. 96376 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 9:03 pm
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Is the joke here that he just has a face? In what way are they alike beyond that?
>> No. 96377 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 9:38 pm
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When was your last eye test?
>> No. 96378 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 11:28 pm
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I have long been a Truss stan, but I'm pretty sure Mordaunt will win after Truss drop out.
>> No. 96379 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 11:33 pm
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There's something very sinister about Mordaunt. She just has the right vibe about her of being that kind of middle England, home counties, village green, "Place-upon-River" kind of loathsome cunt that the press and news media will fall over themselves to suck off.

She'll get away with murder because Radio 4 and the broadsheets won't be able to shove their nose far enough up her arse crack, no matter how much they try and pretend not to, because she is so deeply one of them.
>> No. 96380 Anonymous
14th July 2022
Thursday 11:56 pm
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Alright, fine, whatever, he looks like Roland Rat. You do know I'm the youngest person on Earth to know what that is and I'm not even very young?

But I've got something more niche that's bothering me. Yes, more niche than a puppet from the '40s. What exactly do the candidates plan to spend their massive defense budget on? A third aircraft carrier? More nuclear capable subs? An RAF so big it'll blot out the sun? A second wheelie bin for every squaddie and his family? I just can't stand how broad and vague all the campaigning is, and none of them will take questions, and the questions that do get asked will be as vague as the claims, not that it matters because the candidates will evade a real answer like Keir Starmer evades having an opinion on literally anything.

Christ, mate, just stop listening to Women's Hour. There's almost a quarter of a century of In Our Time episodes to work through, or try The Grenfell Inquiry Podcast, it can't make you any more upset than those BBC Radio 4 lasses are.
>> No. 96381 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 12:20 am
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>What exactly do the candidates plan to spend their massive defense budget on?

If they have any sense, people. The number of active army personnel has fallen by more than 30% since 2014. Most of those cuts have come in the form of "natural wastage", i.e. experienced staff leaving the service and not being replaced, so the loss of skills is far worse than the numbers initially suggest.

More small drones would be nice, we need to replace a lot of kit that we've given to Ukraine, but the main problem with the British armed forces is simply a lack of manpower. Part of that is an intentional scaling-down of staffing due to the daft belief that we could fight wars with sci-fi toys rather than wellies in the mud, but it's mostly just shit pay and conditions.
>> No. 96382 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 12:21 am
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I've barely heard her speak, and I certainly don't know anything about her policies. What I thought I knew, she now seems to be denying. She looks like she'd be a strident hard-Brexit flag-waving British exceptionalist, and I could have sworn that's exactly what she was a couple of years ago, but now everyone wants to unite the right against her insidious cultural Marxism and vote for a proper Daily Express candidate like the Remain-voting Liz Truss.

We're going to need a bigger army so we can smash Russia. We're in the Phony War now, but they're going to try it at some point and we need the 100% employment of total war to save our economy and those of the European Union.
>> No. 96383 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 12:28 am
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>What exactly do the candidates plan to spend their massive defense budget on?

cup of tea. And some spare change for other stuff. Why would you want defence procurement decisions to be decided in an election?

If you really want to attack them then start asking questions about that dossier where Liz Truss was sleeping with Kwasi while he was going out with fellow Cabinet Minister Amber Rudd. Or where Penny claimed that Turkey was in the EU.
>> No. 96384 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 12:30 am
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That's a rather queer wordfilter but one I fully support my taxes going towards.
>> No. 96385 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 1:09 am
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Hit a nerve did we, homecountieslad?

You know as well as I do that BBC Radio 4 is a perfect distillation of middle class culture, and therefore by extension, everything that is wrong with British civil society.
>> No. 96386 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 4:46 am
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You seem smart, why aren't you running to be Tory leader. Don't respond, I just answered my own question. What do you think the desire to fight wars with sci-fi toys is motivated by? An earnest desire to save the lives of are brave boys? Sending a few quid to their mates in the defense industry? Absolute bullshit predicated upon nothing but hot air?

If you're telling us you want to almost double spending on our miltary I expect you to have a rough idea what you want that money to go towards. I'm not expecting Napoleonic military cunning from Liz Truss, but the UK's spent ten years throwing billions away on the Ajax IFV, which is still little more than a sybian for a Godzilla that turns the crew's spine to soup. Ergo I get very sceptical about wild military spending claims.

Please reread and reread again my post and tell me where I was sticking up for Women's Hour? Or Radio 4? And then tell me how you took my bit about the Grenfell Tower Inquiry seriously? You've not only got the wrong end of the stick, you're not even holding a stick. I understand how listening to Radio 4 could cripple your sense of humour, but don't take it out on me.
>> No. 96387 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 7:55 am
96387 spacer
>>96386 You seem smart, why aren't you running to be Tory leader.

wait, what?
>> No. 96388 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 11:25 am
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I don't think you even know what a stick is mate, what a perplexing post.
>> No. 96389 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 11:56 am
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Mordaunt is obviously the most beautiful major Tory, but Kemi is quite nice too. Proof that black don't crack. Truss looks like a spastic, and Braverman looks like a reflection on the back of a spoon.

None of the male contenders are very handsome. If I had to pick one it'd be Nadim, he looks kind of cool. Javid looks like the old pickled onion Monster Munch mascot.
>> No. 96390 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 12:55 pm
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Steve Baker is handsome. Go with Liz Truss and he'll probably be Chancellor or something.
>> No. 96391 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 7:59 pm
96391 spacer
They are on Channel 4. How is transexual issues such a hot topic? Is everyone switching genders?
>> No. 96392 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 8:05 pm
96392 spacer
They've got to pander to the Tory membership if they want to be leader, which means you've got to make a stand against wokeness.

It's easier to bang on about unisex toilets than it is to say how you'll fix the economy or sort out rising energy prices.
>> No. 96393 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 8:12 pm
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Conservatives can't contain their disgust for Daisy Taylor's thick, juicy, mouthwatering cock. It's sickening how these transsexualists flaunt their engorged penises on perfectly innocent tractor websites. This is why we need the Online Safety Bill.
>> No. 96394 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 8:24 pm
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It's the ultimate trap. haha, trap. Everyone wants to be tolerant and human, while at the same time cracking down on the rapists and child molesters that the other half of the party think shemales are. Whenever you want to make your opponent squirm, just ask them to navigate this ideological minefield and you've done it.

It really worries me how bad they all are. It worries me even more that I think the dreaded Kemi "Mugabe" Badenoch is playing the game best here.
>> No. 96395 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 8:32 pm
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Which one of them is coughing all over the microphone?
>> No. 96396 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 8:36 pm
96396 spacer
Sounds like Kemi.

They are all just so terrible.
>> No. 96397 Anonymous
15th July 2022
Friday 9:51 pm
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I've just realised who Penny Mordaunt reminds me of.
>> No. 96398 Anonymous
16th July 2022
Saturday 5:43 pm
96398 spacer
In an ideal world we will end up with Prime Minister Tugendhat.

We don't live in that world do we?
>> No. 96399 Anonymous
16th July 2022
Saturday 5:55 pm
96399 spacer
>Boris Johnson is threatening to set an “early test” for his successor by ensuring they have to face two early byelections as the new Tory leader, the Observer has been told.

>The prime minister is planning to elevate at least two current MPs to the House of Lords well before the next election, triggering two contests that will test public support for whoever replaces him in Downing Street.

>It is understood that he wants to hand peerages to Jimmy Adams, a cabinet office minister and one of his closest allies, and culture secretary Nadine Dorries, who has emerged as one of his most loyal cabinet colleagues. Both have large majorities, but the combination of a recent Tory poll slump and its disastrous recent byelection record could make the contests a close call.

>> No. 96400 Anonymous
16th July 2022
Saturday 7:12 pm
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A colleague of mine met Penny in the RN - she is, or at least was, a naval reservist. Apparently she came across as bright and on the ball, though he admitted his perception may have been swayed by the fact that to his eye at the time she bore a strong resemblance to Michelle Pfieffer.
>> No. 96401 Anonymous
16th July 2022
Saturday 7:53 pm
96401 spacer

This is a picture of Mordaunt from ~15 years ago. There doesn't seem to be that many pictures of her online from before she became an MP.
>> No. 96402 Anonymous
16th July 2022
Saturday 9:04 pm
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>> No. 96403 Anonymous
16th July 2022
Saturday 10:35 pm
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Doesn't see skin colour as a privilege.
>> No. 96404 Anonymous
16th July 2022
Saturday 11:02 pm
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A true English rose. Too beautiful to lead this stain of a nation.
>> No. 96405 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 12:43 am
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That's interesting, because when I saw her wearing that, I was actually thinking of something else and considered it very unlikely that anyone had tried dressing that way for a political debate ever before.
>> No. 96406 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 1:16 am
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It's very odd how Truss has pinned her entire political career on a prolonged, tragic, Maggie Thatcher cosplay. I know all the candidates are at it to some degree, but she adopted it long time ago.
>> No. 96407 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 5:11 am
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Liz Truss has a decent arse for a skinny bird.

>> No. 96408 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 9:03 am
96408 spacer
Clear off, Dacre.
>> No. 96409 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 10:09 am
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You don't have to agree with someone's politics to think that they have a shaggable arse.
>> No. 96410 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 10:55 am
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It's not even true though! You sound like an alien desperately trying to pass itself off as a heterosexual human male, for reasons I can't discern, but I am forced to assume are nefarious. I'm onto you, Glorbax, and your mate Paul Dacre, you devious little shits.
>> No. 96411 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 11:15 am
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Priti Patel is a terrible human being with a tremendously thicc body.

Liz Truss is a terrible human being with the body of a village fête scarecrow.

No comparison.
>> No. 96412 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 11:43 am
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Liz Truss as a name is clearly a subliminal message to "Trust Lizards", which explains what's going on here.
>> No. 96413 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 1:27 pm
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I'm surprised how she's changed over the past couple years. If you'd asked me in 2019 there would be no guilt at all in being one of her Parliamentary researchers IYKWIM.

I think everyone knows she's a bit mental too so, you know how it is.
>> No. 96414 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 3:20 pm
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I wouldn't be surprised if some tinhat or other is rambling about that on a local Facebook page right now.
>> No. 96415 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 5:13 pm
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In the last debate, I got the feeling she had been watching loads of old Derren Brown clips on YouTube and was trying to brainwash people into voting for her based on her name.

"I've spoken to lots of people around the country, and what I feelistheprimeminister should be trustworthy. What I feel, Liz, the Prime Minister, should be trustworthy. The Prime Minister should be Truss...tworthy. I want everyone who votes for our next Prime Minister to subliminally decide in the polling stations, I really want truss-t in Downing Street. Let's trust our leader. Trus' in Downing Street. Liz Truss, our leader. Let's trust."

I will probably watch tonight's debate too; I wonder if she'll do it again.
>> No. 96416 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 7:01 pm
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Seeing a lot of chatter and some articles about "Charter Cities" being brought in as a thing here, via Rishi. From what I'm reading, they're basically private jurisdictions run by the mega rich. Totally undemocratic. Very cyberpunk.
>> No. 96417 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 7:20 pm
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Drinking game (hardcore mode): Take a shot every time Tom mentions he was in the army.
>> No. 96418 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 7:36 pm
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Where are our Conservative-leaning posters? Which of these candidates would they vote for?

It's all he's really done. The ones that really stand out to me are when someone gets asked a question that's completely unrelated to their CV, and the first sentence in the answer is name-checking their previous job.
>How important is trust in a leader?
>I was Chief Secretary to the Treasury. Trust is very important, etc etc

Are these different from the freeports that they've threatened us with?
>> No. 96419 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 7:44 pm
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Same thing as the Freeports.
>> No. 96420 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 7:55 pm
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Liz Truss is reading her closing speech! Everyone else memorised theirs, but she's reading it off a bit of paper. This is even worse than Tom Tugendhat saying he's "ready to serve" every three minutes.
>> No. 96421 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 7:56 pm
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What the fuck has happened to his hand? It's like it got stuck in an animation loop as he gave his final statement.

Honestly the lad who wanted to shag Truss needs his fucking head checked, alien or not.
>> No. 96422 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 7:58 pm
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>Where are our Conservative-leaning posters?

I was more under the impression that we had lefties who can't stand Labour/idpol mind worms rather than actual Tories.
>> No. 96423 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 8:05 pm
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I only caught the end, how many times did Truss say "unleash"? I'm watching the start now and she's so economically illiterate it's frightening, like she went to the Erdogan School of Economics.

I think there was at least one Tory voter, but it was boiler plate "I don't like taxes" stuff that motivated him.
>> No. 96424 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 8:13 pm
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In that case, I don't like them. Not only are they handed out to Conservative constituencies to effectively bribe them to keep voting blue, which I don't really like, but they focus the local economy into those areas in a way that actually reduces the economy of surrounding areas. So they don't make more money, and given that they are tax havens, they actually lose money. But then, I support regulation for businesses, and taxes, and all that, so of course I wouldn't approve.
>> No. 96425 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 8:25 pm
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A little bit of that, but we do have a couple of honest to god right wingers here too, who I assume to be the same couple of lads who are wealthy enough to post about the stock market and shit.

I suspect they might be LibDems though (ie Tories in denial).
>> No. 96426 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 8:27 pm
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Penny although by all accounts I think she's now fucked it and her prior whinging hasn't helped matters.

Captain Tom is an intelligence service asset.
Kemi will enjoy her new role as SoS for health and social care.
Rishi Rich will be eaten alive when the membership votes.

I'd give her one. She's like someone's mum (or auntie) at a garden party who after one two many glasses of wine starts getting handsy.
>> No. 96427 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 8:35 pm
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>I think she's now fucked it and her prior whinging hasn't helped matters

I've been too busy enjoying the fruits of climate change too keep up, what has she said/done?
>> No. 96428 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 8:46 pm
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>wealthy enough to post about the stock market and shit

Everyone became a retail investor in 2020 - if the stock market is the barrier dividing Labour and the Conservatives then you're in for some tough times ahead.

She's been caught out lying about her position on evangelist christian korean youtuber rights and yet continues to deny it rather than just accepting a libertarian position that can play off Kemi's evangelist christian korean youtuber bashing.

That and it turns out she's completely useless without her speechwriters.
>> No. 96429 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 9:07 pm
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>Pundits often puzzle over the identity of today’s Tory party. It claims to be rightwing but has imposed Britain’s highest tax burden since 1950. In fact, it’s an old people’s party. That’s a winning strategy in a country where most voters are now over 55, estimate Joe Chrisp and Nick Pearce of Bath University. Ballot-box Britain is much older than the rest of Britain.

>Once you’re an old people’s party, you’re free to ignore many things: the dearth of new homes, record low birth-rates, the threat to funding for British university research through the EU’s Horizon scheme, reduced opportunities for Britons to work or study abroad, not to mention climate change. Even the economy hardly matters to many pensioners, because they aren’t in it. Instead, an old people’s party takes the geriatric side in culture wars, keeps house prices rising, and redistributes not to the poor but to pensioners, who last week got a 10 per cent raise just as rail-workers were offered 2 per cent. An old people’s party imports a non-voting workforce while encouraging geriatric grumbles about immigration. In effect, the Tories side with wealth — held chiefly by the elderly — against incomes, and then cast that stance as “anti-elitist”.

It's almost a satire the kinds of issue dominating the leadership contest. Maybe instead of banging on about class we should start the discussion about age?
>> No. 96430 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 9:14 pm
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>> No. 96431 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 9:17 pm
96431 spacer
To add - it is pointless to televise all this bollocks. Since I can't really vote for any of them unless I was a Tory.

Is it possible that this sort of thing adds to the fact that voter turnout is generally low for elections?
>> No. 96432 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 9:36 pm
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I wonder, back-of-a-fag-packet style, how much would be left over if the government grabbed all the pension funds (turning them into a sovereign wealth fund) and then jacked up the state pension, because it occurs to me that one of the worst parts of our favoring the old is that a lot of the transfer is taking place in the private sector (wages are squeezed while shareholders are rolling in it, and who holds shares? pension funds.), and while the state pension is doing much better than the dole it's still crap compared to european countries, so you wind up with a situation where a lot of old people are doing very well (with their houses and private pensions), but you can't go "well, bugger the coffin dodgers then" because there's a subset of them who're just as fucked as the rest of us, stuck with a state pension and an unheated rental flat.

Such a wealth grab would never happen, obviously, but I'd be interested to know whether it would be a case of "All of our problems would be solved, with retirement now comfortable and egalitarian and the public finances capable of supporting whatever whimsy you may please", "The nature of inequality is such that all the wealth in pension funds wouldn't even be enough to give everyone over 65 a dignified existence, let alone fund wider public spending.", or somewhere in the middle.
>> No. 96433 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 9:58 pm
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>wages are squeezed while shareholders are rolling in it, and who holds shares? pension funds

I don't know if you've noticed this but pension funds aren't exactly flush with all these retirees around and a generation of young people who can scarcely afford to pay into the system because they're still aiming for a house.

I'd put good money that a period of prolonged stagnation in property prices would cause a good few good pension funds to collapse.
>> No. 96434 Anonymous
17th July 2022
Sunday 10:01 pm
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There's probably way too many interconnected issues here to really just rob Peter to pay Paul in that manner. It's more of a generational thing than a pensioners thing; once the current crop dies out their kids and grandkids will just inherit it, but never have quite the same opportunities to exploit the situation.

It's true that for all the whinging about benefits scum and what have you over the last 15 years, the largest recipients of benefits are and always have been pensioners. And if you look at it we do spend a big fucking whack on them- The state pension alone cost us 101.2 billion pounds in 2020/21. That's a full 1/10th of the government's spending.

But that also makes it clear that even if we abolished the pension and just left old people to die, the only thing it would really achieve is slashing the deficit. That frees up money to go elsewhere but it's not the be all end all. I think the middle ground would have to be making the state pension means tested. It's the only benefit that isn't, if you think about it- You don't get to claim jobseekers when you're working, but pensioners still get their £200 a week even when they're cashing in two private pensions, renting out 4 houses, and earning from a stocks portfolio.

Pensioners get to have their cake and eat it. We should be making the state pension conditional and taxing the ones who are still earning.

Of course if it were really up to me to implement some loony lefty solution to all this it wouldn't matter, because the stock market would have been nationalised to fund UBI and owning more than one home would be punishable by genital electrocution, but I digress.
>> No. 96435 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 1:50 am
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Do you think this is all just guerrilla advertising for the Conservative Party? "Have a say, join today! Penny Mordaunt needs your help! Save the country from Liz Truss, for just £5 a year!"
>> No. 96436 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 2:37 am
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Possibly? I don't even know. I know it cost twice as much to be part of the Labour party.

>> No. 96437 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 12:42 pm
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I will admit I guessed the membership fees. But I have since looked them up, and you can be a Conservative member for £5 a year if you're under 26, or it's £25 a year for everyone else. Armed Forces get a discount and can join for £15 a year.

Anyway, I came here to say that Tuesday's leadership debate has been cancelled. I think Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss both pulled out, which wasn't very leaderly of either of them.
>> No. 96438 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 12:43 pm
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Not another one of those "Bring Boris back" nutjobs.
>> No. 96439 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 1:14 pm
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I bet Kemi has nice feet.
>> No. 96440 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 3:06 pm
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That's fair enough, but I would nevertheless like to state for the record now that we will absolutely miss Boris a year from now. Every candidate is a long way to the right of where he was, and we can kiss any of that levelling-up investment goodbye. And I won't be surprised if our next Prime Minister is also a blustering degenerate just like Boris was.
>> No. 96441 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 3:29 pm
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boris riot.jpg
>Every candidate is a long way to the right of where he was, and we can kiss any of that levelling-up investment goodbye

I think I warned you lot about this. Rishi and Johnson didn't just start falling out last year because of a popularity contest but because of fundamental disagreements on spending with the Treasury taking a much more cynical tone to net zero that delayed government strategy:

Johnson's mistake was not defecting to the Labour party when he was messing about with London. From then on it was a deal with the devil where he would bring majorities and the Tories might chuck a couple quid north.
>> No. 96442 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 3:38 pm
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He was lying, you nimrod. Jesus Christ, there was far too many people in this country who'd believe Johnson if he told them "I'm not actually fucking your wife, this is all a dream, go back to sleep".
>> No. 96443 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 5:19 pm
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>we can kiss any of that levelling-up investment goodbye

That assumes any of it ever existed in the first place. How many of those 40 "new hospitals" have been built?

It was quite fortunate of covid to come along and force them to spunk £400 billion directly into the pockets of business owners, or else we might have had to see them attempt to actually deliver on any of that, which I'm sure would have been hilarious.
>> No. 96444 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 6:23 pm
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I like that my local hospital's roof is held up with Acrow props, cable ties and bits of 2x4, and I won't hear a word said against St Boris and his promises.
>> No. 96445 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 6:45 pm
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Boris ranting like he was coked to the gills during his remarks in Parliament today.

Skipping work, LARPing in fighter jets, planning a leaving do at Chequers this weekend.

Man is an utterly contemptible cunt.
>> No. 96446 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 6:58 pm
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As little effort as he made before, he's hardly going to go straight after being essentially sacked.
>> No. 96447 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 7:09 pm
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What would it take for Lord Lebedev's peerage to be revoked?
>> No. 96448 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 7:14 pm
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I'm too busy GAMING to look into it myself, but when was the last time a peerage was revoked?
>> No. 96449 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 8:05 pm
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Action Man's canned.
>> No. 96450 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 8:12 pm
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>LARPing in fighter jets

The deal with Japan is absolutely huge ladm9. I know .gs is full of limp-wristed girly-men but we've gone from a project rumoured to follow the Loyal Wingman Project into the dustbin of history into a project that will deliver far-before the continental monstrosity with the resulting export potential across Europe.

To make things better it's setting up joint UK-Japan defence collaboration at a time when it's own budget is ballooning and there remain bad feelings with working with the Americans after the F-2 project.

(A good day to you Sir!)
>> No. 96451 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 8:40 pm
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Will Mordaunt cling on or will she lose out to Truss? Sunak's almost certainly in the final two.
>> No. 96452 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 8:46 pm
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1917. A bunch of lesser Royals got shitcanned for being Nazis innit?
>> No. 96455 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 9:57 pm
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It's quite a formal process. In most former as well as extant European monarchies, all you have or had to do was commit serious crimes in order to lose your titles automatically.
>> No. 96456 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 10:17 pm
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The Party has regained their confidence in Dear Leader.

I'm starting to think that this lot are all a bit to emotionally labile to run a cuntry in a time of crises
>> No. 96457 Anonymous
18th July 2022
Monday 10:55 pm
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When Badenoch drops out her votes will go to Truss and put her over by a large margin. I suppose it's fitting that the PM will sound like a primary school teacher right up until the next GE when Labour will eat her alive.
>> No. 96459 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 7:12 am
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How dare you besmirch primary teachers like that? Truss is far more like the awful secondary school teacher her superiors give a glowing reference for just to get shot of her.
>> No. 96460 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 11:09 am
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I was reading about Tobias Ellwood losing the whip over it, but this was what struck me the most.
>Other Conservative MPs cancelled foreign trips, left poorly relatives and one MP’s mother died on the morning of the vote and still attended and voted, the source said.

Fucking animals.
>> No. 96462 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 2:11 pm
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Another leadership candidate will be voted out in around an hour's time. It'll probably be Kemito Badenussolini, but I'd rather see Liz Truss go out to be honest. She is an establishment figure whose experience and connections seemingly aren't helping her, so what's the point?
>> No. 96463 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 2:21 pm
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As someone pointed out earlier, Truss is the most likely to pick up supporters when Badenoch drops out so she's likely to leapfrog Mordaunt into the final two.

Mordaunt has lost of all the momentum she had when people didn't know who she was.
>> No. 96464 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 2:58 pm
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Mordaunt had it all, brains, beauty, respect. And she spunked it all away by being a boring cunt and for not hating evangelist christian korean youtubers until everyone dragged her for not hating evangelist christian korean youtubers so she decided to hate evangelist christian korean youtubers.
>> No. 96465 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 3:20 pm
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But still, she hasn't made an impression on foreign governments yet. She's still unknown. Liz Truss is probably a household name in the Bundestag and whatever the French government is called, and it's got her nowhere. She is pretty much at her political ceiling. And it's shit. We know she's going to be bad; why not take a chance on a new face who will only probably be bad? But I suppose that sort of gamble is the very definition of unconservative.
>> No. 96466 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 3:31 pm
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Beautiful Nubian goddess Kemi out.
>> No. 96467 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 8:52 pm
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But if I didn't go and vote they'd have [checks notes] withdrawn the whip for a couple of months until it inevitably became politically necessary to give it back, like they've done for fraudsters, wife-beaters and literal child rapists.
>> No. 96468 Anonymous
19th July 2022
Tuesday 9:43 pm
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>Kemito Badenussolini
I can't believe I have only thought now, once it is too late, to call her Kemi Bad-enoch Powell.
>> No. 96473 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 4:12 pm
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The party is over.
>> No. 96474 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 4:18 pm
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Pm Liz Truss.
God help us.
>> No. 96475 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 4:30 pm
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Look, I know it's looking grim, but maybe Boris Johnson with a fanny with be a better Prime Minister than Boris Johnson with a knob. We probably could have saved ourselves loads of time by just pinning Big Dog down in the commons and slicing his off, but we've committed to our present actions and now we've got to finish them.
>> No. 96476 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 4:43 pm
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This is great news, Labour will walk it with a mong like her in charge. We're saved.
>> No. 96477 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 5:45 pm
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I can't wait for Kier to absolutely wreck her week in week out at the box, then for the country to vote for Cons anyway because they don't like him.
>> No. 96478 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 6:01 pm
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Why does nobody think Rishi can be Prime Minister? Sure, he's a slimy careerist who stands for nothing and is guilty of everything Boris was guilty of, plus he has an American green card and seemingly wants as little to do with this country as he can get away with, but Liz Truss got tricked by Sergei Lavrov live on TV and it wasn't even a particularly clever trick.
>> No. 96479 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 6:10 pm
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God no, please.
>> No. 96480 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 6:29 pm
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We've had the Churchill-cum-clown impressionist, now it's time for the tragic Thatcher tribute act. Plus, just imagine the kinds of wankers she's going to put in her cabinet. It's going to look like closing time at a psychiatric prison.

I don't think anyone likes him, that's why. Sunak horrified libertarian types by spending money and raising taxes to stop the economy shitting itself inside out (for a time), and while he might have wanted to leave the EU before it was cool, he isn't the kind of singing-two-bombers at the Germans, red-meat-and-a-pint bloke the Brexit-Ultras like. Culturally, personally, he might as well be a remainer.

Apologies if I've gone hyphen mad, but I can't be arsed agonising over it any longer. It's as readable as I can make it.
>> No. 96481 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 6:32 pm
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He's got a weird head/face. The Spitting Image puppet of Rishi looks more like a normal human being than Rishi himself. Also his wife is a crook, and his whole "I'm proud of my father of law for being so wealthy" line made him look like a cunt.
>> No. 96482 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 6:45 pm
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Conservative Home polling of members had:

- Kemi beating everyone else.
- Truss beating Mordaunt, Sunak and Tugendhat.
- Sunak beating Mordaunt and Tugendhat.
- Mordaunt beating Tugendhat.

>> No. 96483 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 7:15 pm
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>while he might have wanted to leave the EU before it was cool, he isn't the kind of singing-two-bombers at the Germans, red-meat-and-a-pint bloke

This is the crux of it for him I think, and without wanting to delve into idpol, I think it is a bit because he's brown. Not because people are racist against him, I must stress; but rather because he's a descendant of colonials, you can never really buy the idea of patriotism from him. You know any attempt he makes at appearing patriotic is a lie, and that really he feels nothing but indifference verging towards mild contempt.

The Brexit lot have been sold a lie, but it's a lie they were willing to swallow from someone like Johnson. You can convince yourself it's because he really does want to Bring Back Britain. When it's someone like Sunak, you can see straight through the sales pitch and it's immediately clear that it's really for the benefit of him and his rich wanker City of London mates.

(Incidentally I think I've just coined Labour's next election slogan. Bring Back Britain. It works on a great many levels.)
>> No. 96484 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 10:08 pm
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>> No. 96485 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 10:15 pm
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I wouldn't trust her to deliver a pizza.
>> No. 96486 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 10:17 pm
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Idk, I reckon she could manage to fall down. Even Truss couldn't cock up gravity.

Are we all talking about PM Truss because it's a sure thing with the weirdo Conservative members or just because it would be funnier than a technocratic libertarian like Sunak?
>> No. 96487 Anonymous
20th July 2022
Wednesday 11:58 pm
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Hoping she uses this as her theme tune:

>> No. 96488 Anonymous
21st July 2022
Thursday 2:02 am
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She's the current favourite, but they've all been favourite at one point or another. It would definitely, definitely be funnier to see her be Prime Minister, though.
>> No. 96489 Anonymous
21st July 2022
Thursday 8:12 am
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Especially if she does indeed hit the ground and faceplant on the steps of Downing Street on day one as promised.
>> No. 96490 Anonymous
21st July 2022
Thursday 11:42 am
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truss feet.jpg
Decent feet to be honest.
>> No. 96491 Anonymous
21st July 2022
Thursday 12:10 pm
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This needs to stop. Do you promise this will.be the last one? There are no more candidates.
>> No. 96492 Anonymous
21st July 2022
Thursday 4:09 pm
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>> No. 96493 Anonymous
21st July 2022
Thursday 8:04 pm
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Alright mate, you've got me, I would.
>> No. 96494 Anonymous
22nd July 2022
Friday 5:40 am
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You say that, but apparently a bunch of Tory members are demanding Boris be added to the ballot.

He really, really doesn't want to go, does he?
>> No. 96495 Anonymous
22nd July 2022
Friday 10:01 am
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I saw yesterday that if he really did mislead the House, and he's no longer Prime Minister, he could have to fight a by-election to keep his seat. His constituents would need to have a recall petition and all manner of unlikely things would need to happen, but I live in hope.
>> No. 96496 Anonymous
22nd July 2022
Friday 1:45 pm
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>but I live in hope.
>> No. 96497 Anonymous
22nd July 2022
Friday 2:32 pm
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Whatever happens next month, Boris' greatest lasting legacy will be that he has been the biggest driving force in the enshitification of British Politics and this is pretty much it until a Civil War or Peasant Revolt or something.
>> No. 96498 Anonymous
22nd July 2022
Friday 2:33 pm
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I think it's only 10% of the electorate that need to sign the petition, so I suspect that could be reached if the council put out a decent number of signing locations. That said, Hillingdon is a Tory council, so it'll depend on how strongly councillors support him - if they like him, they'll probably interfere to ensure only the bare minimum of locations are opened.
>> No. 96499 Anonymous
22nd July 2022
Friday 8:55 pm
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Why doesn't Truss say she'll make Sunak chancellor? Wouldn't that guarantee a win?
She can sack him a few weeks later after he's failed to fix the economy or whatever.
>> No. 96500 Anonymous
23rd July 2022
Saturday 1:47 am
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Good move, because if he turns around and says he wouldn't do that job under her, it undermines his time under Boris.
>> No. 96501 Anonymous
23rd July 2022
Saturday 2:26 am
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There'd be no Boris without Blair and no Blair without Thatcher. He's just a terminal stage symptom of an underlying disease, not the disease itself. Sure, it just seemed like a bit of shortness of breath in 1987 and a rather annoying cough in 2001, but that doesn't mean it was safe to leave untreated.
>> No. 96502 Anonymous
23rd July 2022
Saturday 1:16 pm
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Lots of Sunak photos with his wife and children today. Obviously painting his as a family man can't hurt, but it also implies he might be of a somehwat normal height, despite the reality.
>> No. 96503 Anonymous
23rd July 2022
Saturday 1:31 pm
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A question. Should it be Gonna', or should it be Go'n'a?
>> No. 96504 Anonymous
23rd July 2022
Saturday 3:27 pm
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It shouldn't be either because both are mental, but the second one at least obeys grammatical rules.

I watched Rishi's campaign speech earlier today on TV. It was absolutely dire, but as part of the threadbare man-of-the-people bullshit spiel, he talked about his dad working in the NHS and his mum running the chemist on Burgess Road in Southampton. That used to be my local chemist! Thousands of students at the University of Southampton will be able to say the same thing. He'd probably left by then, but it's fascinating to discover that the dumb cow who sold me sleeping pills to tackle a rash in 2006 might have been Rishi Sunak's mother.
>> No. 96505 Anonymous
23rd July 2022
Saturday 7:22 pm
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If they still want to level up the north, then they really need to be hitting the streets of Manchester, particularly near the canals.
>> No. 96506 Anonymous
23rd July 2022
Saturday 7:38 pm
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I cycled through Cheetham Hill last weekend. I don't think they do want to level up the north.

Although, why do political parties always have their conferences in places that hate them? The Conservatives have theirs in Manchester, where they are perpetually unelectable, and either Labour or the Liberal Democrats go to Brighton, until recently the only Green-voting constituency in the country. It's an act of trolling; it must be.
>> No. 96507 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 11:41 am
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ft journalism.jpg


Sunak delivering this speech with the same tone of voice one would use to convince a demented care home resident that 'yes, you do live here, and yes, it is in fact now time for you to go to bed'.
>> No. 96509 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 11:44 am
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I'd prefer a grip from the other candidate IYKWIM.
>> No. 96510 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 12:33 pm
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>> No. 96513 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 2:43 pm
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Isn't that a smaller lead than a week ago? I thought Liz Truss had over 70% at one point.
>> No. 96514 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 2:58 pm
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Previous YouGov polling was about 60-40 in favour of Truss, so no real change.
>> No. 96516 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 8:18 pm
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Fucking hell!
>Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak have vowed to toughen controls on migration into the UK as part of their bids to become next Tory leader and prime minister.
>Mr Sunak said he would tighten the definition of who qualifies for asylum and introduce a cap on refugee numbers.
>Ms Truss said she would extend the UK's Rwanda asylum plan and increase the number of Border Force staff.

You absolute fucking imbeciles. You idiots. You retards, you spastics, you mongs, you braindead halfwit simpletons. We already don't have enough people to do all the jobs, which in turn is driving wages up (for some people) as employers compete for workers, and that in turn is driving inflation. If you want to tackle inflation, actually welcoming more immigrants would be one of the easiest things you could do. But these economically illiterate thickos would rather make things worse, because that's the easiest way to appeal to the echoing voids in the skulls of party members. Absolute fucking idiots. Jesus Christ.

It's a good thing they're not actually going to do any of this, nor indeed even try. Perhaps my wages will go up too by only a reasonable amount.
>> No. 96517 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 9:27 pm
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>and that in turn is driving inflation

No it's not. Wage growth has very little to do with the present inflationary problem, not in the least because most peoples wages have barely kept up with inflation for the last decade and a half.

I refer the honourable gentleman to this image from another thread.


The Tories have literally never made a difference to immigration, despite all the rhetoric they spit out about it, because maintaining a surplus of labour is a fundamentally right wing policy. The Tories have always been and always will be in favour of migration, and no matter what they say, they're not going to make serious attempts to bring it down.

Given that you acknowledge this, why are you seething about it so much? Have you tried turning your brain on and thinking about why these issues exist for yourself, instead of believing what the Telegraph says?
>> No. 96518 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 9:48 pm
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Wait... Why are you angry? It is good. Wages have been depressed for far too long. You sound like a great idpol Thatcherite.

Also, I remember a whole argument about how immigrants were not depressing wages back before we left the EU. Funny how everyone quietly accepted that it was and is true.
>> No. 96519 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 10:18 pm
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Wage increases don't help anyone if it just gets eaten up by inflation. We can only have non-inflationary wage rises by increasing productivity, otherwise you've just got more money chasing the same amount of stuff. The unions regularly won double-digit pay awards back in the 70s, but it didn't make anyone better off.
>> No. 96521 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 10:32 pm
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>>96519 Wage increases don't help anyone if it just gets eaten up by inflation.

There's a chance that house prices won't track inflation (likely in a recession / depression) and we can have a crash without a crash.
>> No. 96522 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 10:36 pm
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This inflation is driven by the endless pursuit of profits by corporations by despite capturing value from exisiting systems rather than creating value
>> No. 96524 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 10:44 pm
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No, they're still creating value. It's just that workers and employees see less of the fruit of their labour in their wallets.

And they're also not seeing much of the productivity increases that they achieve. If we just go by productivity, then any mid-level office worker is probably four to five times more productive on a given day today than 30 or 40 years ago. But during the same time, wages have risen significantly less than that, especially when considering inflation.

Yes, I only pulled the figure "four to five times" out of my arse, but I'm sure it'll hold up if you compare actual numbers.
>> No. 96525 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 10:56 pm
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>The unions regularly won double-digit pay awards back in the 70s, but it didn't make anyone better off.
Au contraire: People weren't getting 20% better off at a stroke, but real wages were still increasing over time. (And, lest we forget, inflation was steadily falling too, punctuated by a second oil shock.)
Plenty of countries have a productivity problem. In the first world only Britain combines stagnant wages with economic growth.
also, it's noteworthy that we look at productivity as a worker problem - "why didn't you become a plumber?" - rather than a firm problem: "why didn't you invest in a widget-making machine so simple even an arts graduate can use it with 15 minutes training?" or even an investor problem: "why did you put all that money into an American metaverse scam rather than a British firm that might actually produce something?"
>> No. 96526 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 11:04 pm
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nah lad.

Rentiers and Shareholders are fucking parasites and this is bad for Society as a whole. This is basically what Adam Smith was banging on about in the Wealth of Nations.
>> No. 96527 Anonymous
24th July 2022
Sunday 11:23 pm
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That problem is as old as the concept of stocks and shares. And not only that. Even the lowliest cornershop owner will try to sneak a cost-plus markup past his consumers for a packet of fags in times when everybody's talking about high inflation.

What that doesn't explain is all the bullshit jobs that have emerged in the last 20 or 30 years. It's something that the movie Office Space touched on in a roundabout way and was one of the first to do so. You have job descriptions that sound like finest bullshit bingo, where people actually get paid to be present at a company ten hours a day, but they really aren't doing much at all to create real value.

But I stand by my argument that in general, productivity has risen far more in the last 40 years than the share of it that people on a payroll have seen.
>> No. 96546 Anonymous
25th July 2022
Monday 9:39 pm
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They are on BBC. Lizz doesn't seem so awful.
>> No. 96547 Anonymous
25th July 2022
Monday 10:34 pm
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Tangentially related but it turns out Johnson is guilt-free when it comes to "MPs not being charged for partygate because they just didn't return their questionnaires to the police" because the Met never sent him one to fill out.
>> No. 96548 Anonymous
25th July 2022
Monday 10:36 pm
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>Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament.


Doesn't instil confidence. Say what you will about his role in Brexit, Cummings was exactly the sort of mind I was happy to see in government and I'm wary about his assessment.
>> No. 96549 Anonymous
25th July 2022
Monday 11:33 pm
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If it wasn't for the fact he disagrees with me on the very biggest issues, he'd be my favourite political figure, almost certainly. His honesty is so refreshing, and he is frequently right (except when he disagrees with me about things). And he absolutely does not give a fuck. He is, as other imageboards would say, "based". He is the most based man in politics.

He certainly would never have come up with the debate tactic to tell Rishi to just aggressively shout over Liz Truss continuously in order to win over voters.
>> No. 96550 Anonymous
26th July 2022
Tuesday 12:49 am
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Ehh. His honesty is always refreshing, but the only reason he can be honest is because he's not an MP. He's right about a lot of things, but all it comes down to is that he's capable of taking the blinkers off. I've seen him make points that anti-idpol classlad would probably scream "I told you so" about.

Other than that, though, I find his levels of cognitive dissonance quite staggering. Basically everything he says is a deflection, some variation on:

>it was a total disaster, but if we hadn't done wot we done, it would have been even worse!

He's got no choice but to rationalise everything him and his team are responsible as some sort of necessary evil, because admitting they are responsible for basically every problem the country is facing right now would presumably make it quite difficult to sleep at night.

Corbyn seems to have really put the willies up people like him an'all, which I will never not find equal measures of amusing and deeply telling.
>> No. 96551 Anonymous
26th July 2022
Tuesday 6:39 pm
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Imagine if one of them was given soup for brains by a falling light fixture, instant classic TV moment right there.
>> No. 96552 Anonymous
26th July 2022
Tuesday 7:53 pm
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Regrettably, it was just the moderator fainting. She's come around now, but at least we get to say that Liz Truss talking nonsense caused someone to collapse.

In other tragic Talk TV news, Piers Morgan went to Ukraine and has sadly made it back alive.
>> No. 96553 Anonymous
26th July 2022
Tuesday 8:51 pm
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Had the debate already started? Or did she faint beforehand? What I'm really asking is, is there a clip of it?

Also, I can't believe Madeleine McCann's mother presents TalkTV.
>> No. 96554 Anonymous
26th July 2022
Tuesday 9:04 pm
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It's on basically every "front page".

>> No. 96555 Anonymous
26th July 2022
Tuesday 9:14 pm
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Thank you very much. I must say I think Liz Truss handled that moderately well; she shows concern but not in a way that is charismatic enough to make people pay attention. She's a real human being, who doesn't actually ask if someone is okay but instead shuffles awkwardly towards them, just like you and me. Rishi stands no chance.
>> No. 96556 Anonymous
27th July 2022
Wednesday 8:06 pm
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Kier Starmer doing his best to be the next Conservative PM of England.
>> No. 96557 Anonymous
27th July 2022
Wednesday 8:24 pm
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I've tentatively defended him up til now on the basis that "safe pair of hands" is a relatively sound strategy, but nah, it's that old Labour thing of always fighting the previous election. Right now there's an appetite for a real alternative to the Conservatives, but he's still fighting 2019's battle for the populist centre ground.

It'll never change.
>> No. 96558 Anonymous
27th July 2022
Wednesday 10:06 pm
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If Liz Truss makes even a half-decent go at the cost of living crisis over the Winter it could quite possibly reverse Tory fortunes, and it's all because Starmer's not yet laid down the foundations for what Labour currently stand for, even after all this time. It might not even take that, and it's certainly not a given, but Labour just have nothing to "sell" to the electorate meaning they're very vulnerable to being swept away. It's important to remember that the government is unlikely to have another perma-meltdown like it's been having since November-December of last year, but Starmer and his team are seemingly, heheh... labouring, heheheh, ahem, under that delusion.
>> No. 96559 Anonymous
27th July 2022
Wednesday 10:18 pm
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Labour suggested the windfall tax; that was a policy they would have brought in if they had been in power. The Conservatives wound up taking it as their own policy. Perhaps, if we all just shut our eyes and hold hands in a big circle and just believe, Labour will have other policies that they're just not announcing until it's too late for Liz Truss to steal them all.
>> No. 96560 Anonymous
27th July 2022
Wednesday 10:52 pm
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>We've had the Churchill-cum-clown impressionist, now it's time for the tragic Thatcher tribute act

So by this logic, the next Tory hopeful will LARP as John Major?
>> No. 96561 Anonymous
27th July 2022
Wednesday 11:35 pm
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>It's important to remember that the government is unlikely to have another perma-meltdown like it's been having since November-December of last year

Yeah. This is the decline mate. The future is what it has been but worse.

Think about the time in your life where things were best. Work was well paid, your money went furthest etc etc. It will never be as good as that again. None of that is coming back.
>> No. 96562 Anonymous
28th July 2022
Thursday 1:21 am
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Liz Truss has all of the flaws of Theresa May with none of the virtues. Think about that sentence for a minute.

I'd say that the Tories are having their Corbyn moment, but it's worse than that. They've fiddled the leadership election to put someone in Number 10 who is hugely unpopular with the wider electorate for no discernible reason. Why not Mordaunt? Why not Tudendhat? Why not anyone who is within sight of Starmer in the polls? Nobody seems able to tell me, other than vague inklings that they aren't Brexity enough.

My only way of explaining the decision is that Truss is a blank slate, sufficiently devoid of personality and principle that she can stand in for whichever leader you'd rather have. Her complete deadness behind the eyes is revolting to the average voter, but it allows the average Tory member or MP to pretend that their party isn't coming apart at the seams. No matter how daunting the issue or how bitter the division, Truss will be there with a meaningless platitude to lull you into a coma of complacency.


The electorate really doesn't care. Boris won a storming majority based on an entirely opportunistic three word manifesto - Get Brexit Done. Covid was if anything quite opportune for Johnson, because it concealed his complete lack of a plan beyond getting any kind of Brexit deal at any cost and delayed the political consequences of the awful deal that he did get.

Laying out detailed policy proposals at this stage is futile, partly because (as >>96559 suggests) the Tories will just nick anything that looks like a good idea and deliver a watered-down version, but mostly because it's impossible to predict what the next general election will be fought over. It's possible that Putin and Zelensky will have signed a peace treaty, gas prices will be returning to normal and inflation will be heading back to manageable levels. It's equally possible that people will be looking at paying £5,000 a year for gas and leccy. It's less likely, but still absolutely possible, that we'll be teetering on the brink of nuclear war and The One Show will have Lawrence Llewellyn-Bowen on to show people how to decorate their fallout shelters. The tone of the next election could be "everything is returning to normal, so let's get things fixed" or "I promise you the plumpest, juciest rats in the new subterranean kingdom of irradiated mutants".

Starmer would be a fool to do anything more than set a general tone for his leadership - patriotic, pragmatic, competent, reassuringly dull - because any plans he might make will almost certainly be overtaken by world events. I'm not quite as pessimistic as >>96561, but the next ten or twenty years are going to have a lot of exceedingly ugly surprises in store. Chaos is the new normal for the foreseeable future and we need to get used to it.
>> No. 96563 Anonymous
28th July 2022
Thursday 4:37 am
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PM in waiting.png
Starmer's been making plenty of plans that were overtaken by events. Let's say we're in the £5,000 a year for electricity timeline: why, then, rule out renationalising energy companies so far in advance? Particularly when it's a policy that has been popular with the public for at least a decade? It's not a demented nutter Corbyn policy - Macron went and did it. I'm not saying he should've committed to it either, but ruling it out in dynamic circumstances is just as big an announcement as ruling it in during stable ones.

The answer makes him sound clever now, but has elements of Shakespearean tragedy given historical precedent: Because the election won't be decided by voters directly, but through mediation by the press. It was the press that toppled Johnson, and Starmer thinks that if he gets them on-side (by performing the world's saddest Blair tribute act) then he'll win the next election with their support despite his lamentable personal qualities. Truss, the great unknown, may just piss off the papers and then he'll get in for reassuring the press he won't hurt anyone's share portfolios.
But my inner forensic lawyer looks at precedent: There are no Labour prime ministers who scraped in on the back of press support and an awful lot of Labour wannabes with odd voices and awkward personal mannerisms who polled like they could do it until they blew it. If the press turn on Labour at the last minute - most tragically if they just make up that he's a rabid lefty anyway while giving Truss the aura of an actual leader, not looking like a PM offset by her actually being PM - his place in history as yet another Labour loser will be secure. "The world's saddest Blair tribute act" will become the world's saddest Kinnock tribute act. Yet oddly when I retell confabulations of past elections and David Hare's "The Absence of War" to my tribal allies in the rubble of what used to be a park and ride, a grand tragicomedy from the old times, they always want to hear the 1992 version - never 2023.
>> No. 96564 Anonymous
28th July 2022
Thursday 2:18 pm
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It does feel a bit like a slow apocalypse since 2020.
>> No. 96565 Anonymous
31st July 2022
Sunday 2:06 pm
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Someone has just posted Im Nin'Alu in the "Songs in other languages" thread, and Wikipedia has informed me that it was sampled by a song called "Can't Truss It". I propose we try and make it Rishi Sunak's campaign anthem. I know nothing about this song but I assume it will be perfectly appropriate for such a thing.

>> No. 96566 Anonymous
31st July 2022
Sunday 4:24 pm
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Well yesterday I bought 16 Rice Krispie Squares for £2.
>> No. 96580 Anonymous
1st August 2022
Monday 8:24 pm
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Truss leads Starmer in polling.
>> No. 96582 Anonymous
1st August 2022
Monday 8:41 pm
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All because she's more popular than Rishi Sunak. He's tanking his own campaign to ensure the continued survival of the party. What a man.
>> No. 96584 Anonymous
1st August 2022
Monday 9:28 pm
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Sunak was handing out care packages to journalists. Coke in case they got thirst, Twix in case they got hungry, and sunscreen in case they got stuck behind him.
>> No. 96585 Anonymous
1st August 2022
Monday 9:33 pm
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I'd start quoting Gunga Din, but I don't think my education was expensive enough for me to get away with it. I'll have to settle for calling Sunak the Captain Oates of Tory bastardry.
>> No. 96586 Anonymous
1st August 2022
Monday 9:42 pm
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Hardly a surprise. Labour are doing their usual thing, taking advantage of an occasion where their enemy is in complete turmoil by attacking each other instead.

I really hate this tendency in the Labour party, I hated it when it was the Blairites undermining Corbyn, and I still hate it now that it's the Momentumites undermining Starmer. It's like they start feeling left out when there aren't enough articles in the papers slagging them off.
>> No. 96587 Anonymous
1st August 2022
Monday 10:33 pm
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You can't blame the far-left. Lisa Nandy is not exactly Rosa Luxemburg, I doubt the rest of the anonymous Shadow Cabinet members who are perplexed by Starmer's spasmodic opinions on strikes are of that stripe either. In fact I know they aren't, Jessica Elgot has written as much:
>Many shadow ministers – most not on the left of the party – said they had long resented the policy. One said those who had attended picket lines at the last strike had got the “full hairdryer treatment” from a senior aide in Starmer’s office and been given dark ultimatums about attending again.
>“Unhappiness on this is very widespread on the frontbench,” the shadow minister said. “It is not just on the left. Unions are where most people on the front bench have come from – or [they have] worked in unionised industries.”
You can't just stick your fingers in your ears and act like an entire Summer of industrial action isn't happening. Stamer's obsession with the internal discipline of Labour means he's neglected the outward facing stuff the public give a crap about.

>> No. 96590 Anonymous
2nd August 2022
Tuesday 11:24 pm
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>Liz Truss has scrapped a plan to link public sector pay to local living costs following a backlash from Tory MPs and opposition parties.

>The Tory leadership candidate had proposed regional pay boards, in a bid to save taxpayers a potential £8.8bn. But the policy was criticised by several senior Tories, who argued it would mean lower pay for millions of workers outside London.

>Ms Truss has now said the proposal would not be taken forward.


Thick as mince. It seems like her and Sunak are trying to outdo one another with absolutely terrible ideas.
>> No. 96591 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 12:13 am
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Well, she had to try find the money from somewhere to fund £21bn worth of pensioner's payrises, so points for effort at least.
>> No. 96592 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 8:26 am
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Rishi says people who "vilify" Britain will have to be reported to Prevent as extremists. These people really are just doing fascism-for-profit, aren't they?
>> No. 96593 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 9:10 am
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Does that involve "talking Britain down" about Brexit?
>> No. 96594 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 9:50 am
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I imagine it involves whatever they can get away with claiming it involves.
>> No. 96595 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 10:35 am
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Now he gets it...
>> No. 96596 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 10:46 am
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I really don't like when people throw the word fascism around to describe what our conservative politicians are doing, or want to do. I have entirely too much respect for fascism to let it be associated with these worms.
>> No. 96597 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 11:00 am
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It's fascism in the service of greed rather than for its own sake, but it is fascism.
>> No. 96598 Anonymous
3rd August 2022
Wednesday 3:25 pm
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I for one think it's a good policy and will be glad to see the back of you extremist wronguns. Indeed, should the authorities require assistance in tracking any of you down I would like to volunteer to help - especially if they'll let me on the case of finding the chap who makes unhinged posts in political threads using my IP address.
>> No. 96601 Anonymous
6th August 2022
Saturday 12:14 am
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Impressive. Saying the quiet part out loud.
>> No. 96602 Anonymous
6th August 2022
Saturday 5:36 pm
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How much would it take to get Dom to lube up and use Truss as a glove puppet? She's clearly hollow. Hell, maybe he could just wear her skin like in that Men in Black documentary I saw a while back. Or we've all seen him doing his dance from silence of the lambs - maybe that?
Fuck's sake, she's my MP, and she's a deranged simpleton. Surely someone, somewhere, can puppet her?
This is going to be dreadful, isn't it?
>> No. 96603 Anonymous
7th August 2022
Sunday 12:57 pm
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I can't believe we're still a month out from having a government. Even when we do have one it's looking as if it's only function will be to fly at you with a knife if you step out of line or question the wisdom of "what if no state?".

I remember how chuffed I was when the exit polls for the 2017 GE came in and I thought "bloody yes, we're turning this thing around, at last". What an utter buffoon I was.
>> No. 96604 Anonymous
7th August 2022
Sunday 9:45 pm
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They're interviewing Rishi Sunak on Sky News. I think it's a repeat of the last debate they had, so it's not live. Anyway, he reminds me of someone, and starting now I shall be referring to him as Ed Mili-tanned.
>> No. 96605 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 1:20 am
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Please. Ed was much better than him.
>> No. 96606 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 12:12 pm
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Opinium also have Truss ahead of Starmer in polling.
>> No. 96607 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 12:28 pm
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It's okay. Everything's fine. Starmer has a great plan to turn this around, just you wait, any day now...
>> No. 96608 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 2:27 pm
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"Let's Keep Brexit Safe" has got to be the most psychotic thing any of them have said during hustings.

Anybody disagree?
>> No. 96609 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 3:24 pm
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Sunak trying to get all Brexit-y just doesn't work. Like I said earlier in the thread, he might have been there from the start, but he'll never one of them.
>> No. 96610 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 3:34 pm
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I haven't been following that, and I cannot for the life of me imagine the context in which those words were said. Is Brexit dangerous somehow? Are we all going to die due to lack of white people becoming nurses? If we invade the EU, fuck you all, I'm fighting for them instead of us.
>> No. 96611 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 3:55 pm
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As far as I can tell he didn't say it out loud, but it's on a Tweet about "reviewing" laws we've inherited. I assume it's just stuff like "you're not allowed to 'smoke out' tenents from properties you own" and "cadmium may not be added to food stuffs even if the COO of Kraft Heinz says it's super yummy and nice".
>> No. 96612 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 3:56 pm
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*inherited from the EU.
>> No. 96613 Anonymous
8th August 2022
Monday 9:12 pm
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Screenshot_20220808-210918_Samsung Internet.jpg

Video is stock footage of a man shredding documents labelled 'EU laws'and 'red tape' while Ode to Joy plays.

>> No. 96614 Anonymous
9th August 2022
Tuesday 12:34 am
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>> No. 96615 Anonymous
9th August 2022
Tuesday 8:51 am
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Liz loves a bit of wife waff
>> No. 96663 Anonymous
22nd August 2022
Monday 8:27 am
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>Tory leadership frontrunner Liz Truss could give the government a double-figure bounce in the polls once she is installed in No 10, according to internal Labour analysis.

>A memo drawn up by Keir Starmer’s director of strategy, Deborah Mattinson, claimed the foreign secretary could dramatically improve Conservative fortunes. The document, leaked to the Guardian, comes amid speculation that Truss could be tempted to capitalise on the upswing and call a snap general election.

>> No. 96664 Anonymous
22nd August 2022
Monday 1:19 pm
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Just when you think you finally understand politics, Liz Truss comes along and gets a double-digit boost in the polls by doing nothing at a time when her whole party is nationally despised.
>> No. 96665 Anonymous
22nd August 2022
Monday 2:18 pm
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Surely this is just the same trick as when Major replaced Thatcher. Labour were consistently in the lead from May 1989 until the November 23rd 1990, at some points recording leads as high as 28%(!) over the Tories.
Though in that case their fortunes reversed the minute Thatcher resigned, even though Major wasn't elected for another 4 days. Maybe because they didn't have BBC iPlayer back then or something.
>> No. 96677 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 12:32 pm
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>> No. 96678 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 12:43 pm
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As part of her winning speech, about a minute after becoming Prime Minister, Liz Truss just called it Kiev instead of Kyiv. That's who we've got now.
>> No. 96679 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 12:44 pm
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I liked the part when she waited for the applause that wasn't coming after talking about Bozza.
>> No. 96680 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 12:59 pm
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>> No. 96681 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 1:22 pm
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I don't want to jinx anything, but I think the Tories might have done a Corbyn. The more that people learn about Truss, the less they like her.
>> No. 96682 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 2:18 pm
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That's definitely happening.

>The more Tory voters see of Liz Truss, the less they like her, polls show


She has absolutely no charisma whatsoever. She's going to lose a personality contest to Keir Starmer. Keir Starmer.
>> No. 96683 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 5:58 pm
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>Priti Patel resigns as Home Secretary
>Home Secretary Priti Patel has resigned.

>In a letter to Boris Johnson, Patel says it is "my choice" to serve from the backbenches.

>She adds that it is "vital" that Liz Truss backs "all aspects" of her policies to tackle illegal immigration.

I'd say thank fucking God, but I don't want to tempt fate and have someone even worse replace her.
>> No. 96684 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 6:03 pm
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I've heard that it could be Suella Braverman. So yes, someone even worse. Sorry.
>> No. 96685 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 6:14 pm
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Jesus. Are they actively trying to sabotage themselves from within?
>> No. 96686 Anonymous
5th September 2022
Monday 6:33 pm
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According to The Mail:

- Kwarteng will be Chancellor.
- Braveman will be Home Secretary.
- Cleverly will be Foreign Secretary.
- Coffey will be Health Secretary and Deputy PM.
- Wallace will be Defence Secretary.
- Rees-Mogg will be Business Secretary.
- Brandon Lewis will be Justice Secretary.
- Tugendhat will be Security Minister.

No place for the likes of Gove and Raab.
>> No. 96687 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 6:04 am
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Only one of the four Great Offices will be held by someone white. At least, on the outside, anyway.
>> No. 96688 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 11:01 am
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They're starting to remind me of Robert Mugabe in more ways than one.
>> No. 96689 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 3:00 pm
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It must be very confusing for the idpol lot that the most diverse cabinet in British history is also the most right wing.
>> No. 96690 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 3:23 pm
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It's probably the same for the far right, although it probably only means they've got more reasons now to hate the Conservatives.
>> No. 96691 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 4:28 pm
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The far right just doesn't have many bona-fide white supremacists any more. There's plenty of insensitivity, casual racism and Islamophobia, you'll find plenty of people making cheap cracks about race, but you really have to dig deep to find people who genuinely believe that black people aren't welcome in Britain. The far right have really warmed to Indians over their mutual hatred of Muslims, but even Kwarteng and Cleverly are getting a fair hearing - they might be black, but they're still one of us.

I think that's why the left have so comprehensively failed to combat the far right; they're stuck in the 1970s, arguing against an imagined National Front rather than the actual EDL. It's a culture war, not a race war. Nadim Zahawi wasn't born in Britain, but he's seen as more of a British patriot than a lot of the people on the Labour front bench - not necessarily fully British, but an adoptive Brit is better than a traitor.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am describing the attitudes of others rather than stating my own beliefs. I am a fully-fledged member of the Metropolitan Liberal Elite despite the fact that I do not live in a metropolis, I am not a liberal and I am most certainly not a member of any elite.
>> No. 96692 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 4:29 pm
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>It's a culture war, not a race war.
Class. Not culture.
>> No. 96694 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 5:03 pm
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That's the substance of the social divide, but it has been co-opted by the actual elite. Jimmy Savile might be a privately educated banker, but he can purport to be a "man of the people" because he adopts the cultural signifiers of the working class.
>> No. 96695 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 5:08 pm
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I've found a lot of people will get very angry if you point this out to them. I suppose a middle or upper class person who adopts (or was brought up with) cultural signifiers of the working class gets to both be well off and believe they're the victim; quite upsetting for them to hear they're complicit.
>> No. 96696 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 6:14 pm
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I had a dream where Liz Truss tried to make herself look like a really cool and hip new PM by launching her term attending a Leeds vs Newcastle game as a cheerleader. Despite being brought up in Leeds she was supporting Newcastle. She tried doing a series of cartwheels, but fell over, and everyone started booing.
>> No. 96697 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 7:05 pm
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Therese Coffey is now Deputy PM.
Good god.
>> No. 96698 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 9:02 pm
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Are they going to fund the country by opening up some 0898 lines and getting us to vote these cunts out?
I am somewhat troubled by our shiny new overlords. I mean, they're too inept to actually lord it over us, but if they get anywhere near control, we're fucked. Do we still have a civil service to frustrate their worst excesses?
>> No. 96699 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 9:04 pm
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What's her deal? Is she know for anything in particular? I don't think I even know which one she is; is she the mumsy one?
>> No. 96700 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 9:20 pm
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>is she the mumsy one?

Less "mumsy", more "your mum jokes".
>> No. 96701 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 9:23 pm
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She's only really remarkable for rebelling to vote against gay marriage, defending the Murdochs during the phone hacking scandal and proposing the privatisation of trees.

Also for looking like she has learning difficulties.
>> No. 96702 Anonymous
6th September 2022
Tuesday 9:27 pm
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More like your mum's scratty mate who vaguely whiffs of piss and cabbage.
>> No. 96703 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 8:08 am
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Truss was on the telly saying that Queenie had invited her to form a new government.
Wait, what?
Did we not have a government? Change of leader, sure. Replacing ministers with her cretinous mates, sure. But it's not a new government, is it? It's the same one with some new and scary faces.
Maybe Queenie really did suggest she (fucks off and) forms a new government.

As for Coffey, there had better be some redeeming nuance to this delightful episode:
"In January 2016, the Labour Party unsuccessfully proposed an amendment in Parliament that would have required private landlords to make their homes "fit for human habitation". According to Parliament's register of interests, Coffey was one of 72 Conservative MPs who voted against the amendment who personally derived an income from renting out property. The Government stated that they believed homes should be fit for human habitation but did not want to pass the new law that would explicitly require it.[33]"
>> No. 96704 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 12:17 pm
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If this fucking idiot wins an election, while look half-cut and blathering on about "aspiration" as the economy is shat through a bin bag, I do not think I can stomach living in this country. I understand that other nations have similarly idiotic politicians, but I will simply refuse to learn the langauge, so the empty headed ideas of men like Justin Trudeau and Mette Frederiksen cannot hurt me.
>> No. 96705 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 12:26 pm
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I think the key difference between her and Johnson is that she'll have nowhere to hide.

Johnson was a PM managing crisis after crisis. He rode a wave of popular support to get Brexit done, including absolutely crushing Labour. He then had to deal with Covid-19, where he rolled out the vaccine and the furlough scheme. He's had to manage our response to the invasion of Ukraine and has been a strong ally to them.

He hasn't done things perfectly by any stretch of the imagination but there's been mitigating factors to excuse him to some degree. His domestic policies have never been properly scrutinised to the extent they should have been because there's always been some bigger distraction going on.

Truss isn't going to enjoy the same honeymoon period. Dealing with the energy crisis is going to be an almost impossible task and nobody seems to have confidence she is up to the task. There's going to be a lot of scrutiny of Truss between now and December 2024, assuming she isn't forced before then if her polling numbers never recover, and she's not going to be able to hide from it the same way that Johnson was.
>> No. 96706 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 12:30 pm
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you seem to be assuming she's not going to start WWIII for a laugh.
>> No. 96707 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 1:00 pm
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I am confident that perpetual crisis is a deliberate election tactic somehow. For the past 12 years, the Conservative Party have always been telling us, "Yes, of course we will solve your problems, just as soon as we've dealt with this crisis." And it has worked so far, so why change? Of course, Putin could surrender tomorrow and they wouldn't actually do anything because there would be a new crisis. No help for house prices because of the climate change crisis, or more likely the utterly astronomical inflation we're about to get when the government borrows £150,000,000,000 to pay everyone's heating bills without even attempting to reclaim even a solitary penny of it from the energy companies who will receive it all.
>> No. 96708 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 1:19 pm
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It's similar to the perpetual war thing from 1984 and the fact it creates opportunities for 'disaster capitalists'.
>> No. 96709 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 1:21 pm
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The other thing to remember is that when all else failed, Johnson could hide up his own arse. Truss doesn't have the charisma or the long-built-up persona to do that.
>> No. 96710 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 1:24 pm
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On the subject of disaster capitalists,
"Jacob Rees-Mogg, an early supporter of Ms Truss, was appointed business, energy and industrial strategy secretary."

>> No. 96711 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 1:28 pm
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"Imagine how bad things would have been under Miliband/Corbyn!"

Cameron was also able to get away with a lack of accountability. Any time he was questioned he'd just fire off a slogan and even if he didn't immediately walk away it was taken at face value. I don't know if Blair was similarly not held to account for things, but I guess he had the nickname Teflon Tony for a reason.

Maybe it's because women don't know how to properly shirk responsibility like a man can.
>> No. 96712 Anonymous
7th September 2022
Wednesday 8:23 pm
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I'm glad one of you lads said it first, because I thought it would sound a bit tinfoil coming from me. Now, I'm not saying they manufactured the corona, or that the war in Ukraine is all a big geopolitical equivalent of wrestling kayfabe, but frankly by this point I'm not necessarily ruling those things out.

We've just been coasting from one disaster to the next for about the past decade, and each time it seems to very conveniently create justification for another huge transfer of wealth from the taxpayer to big business.
>> No. 96713 Anonymous
8th September 2022
Thursday 8:22 pm
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kwasi kwarteng university challenge.png
Fun fact: our new Chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, was on a team that won University Challenge when he was younger. And he appears to have sworn on TV too.
>> No. 96714 Anonymous
8th September 2022
Thursday 10:14 pm
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What's fun about that?
>> No. 96715 Anonymous
9th September 2022
Friday 12:49 am
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I was also on University Challenge when I was a student, and I'm a failure in every aspect of life who's drunk on a weeknight after [this post has been redacted due to blogposting but why doesn't she like me man?]

It could have been ME being the Chancellor. All I'd have needed to do was be a politician, be interested in economics, do something, anything with my life, and support Conservative ideologies. But instead, here I am, being fucking nothing forever. Fuck. I was my university's team captain too. Kwasi Kwarteng wasn't. He's a little bitch.
>> No. 96716 Anonymous
10th September 2022
Saturday 2:03 pm
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Did your team win at least?
>> No. 96717 Anonymous
10th September 2022
Saturday 4:53 pm
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No. We lost to a former polytechnic, when we were a posh university.
>> No. 96718 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 3:23 pm
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I realise I'm several years late to this particular party, but I figured that at this time of national reflection over Old Liz, we should take a moment to reminisce over New Liz doing what she does best.
>> No. 96719 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 3:33 pm
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stable diffusion.jpg
Try this one instead.
>> No. 96720 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 3:42 pm
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>> No. 96721 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 3:49 pm
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>> No. 96722 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 4:13 pm
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Playing around with the prompt "Liz Truss opening a pork market in Beijing in a Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank" seems to evoke memories of Ti*n*nmen Squ*re. About 40% of the images seem to include the Ti*n*nmen Gate in some form. I'd write a flippant thinkpiece about AI being Sinophobic, but I think it'd just confuse the Opinion editor at The Guardian.
>> No. 96723 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 4:42 pm
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Did you request that the pig look like Davey C?
>> No. 96724 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 4:48 pm
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Just a happy little accident. I didn't ask for the bloke at the back to look like Oliver Dowden either.
>> No. 96725 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 4:49 pm
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>> No. 96726 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 4:51 pm
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getting piggy with it.jpg
>> No. 96727 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 10:39 pm
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Dall-E 2 is quite charitable to Liz Truss.
>> No. 96728 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 10:40 pm
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Less so to Daveycambles.
>> No. 96729 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 10:41 pm
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This one is just a fun little bonus so we're not being too partisan.
>> No. 96730 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 10:55 pm
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That's a thing that can happen when the AI can figure out who a person is but doesn't know what they look like. It's worked out that she's a woman with blonde hair and that as a senior politician she should be dressed in a suit.
>> No. 96731 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 10:58 pm
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It clearly knows what she looks like in >>96719, >>96720 and >>96722
>> No. 96732 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 11:02 pm
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Different AI.
>> No. 96733 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 11:02 pm
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That's a different model.
>> No. 96734 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 11:25 pm
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I can't believe that horrible Marxist made Quavers red. BROKEN BRITAIN!
>> No. 96735 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 11:30 pm
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Dall-e 2 and Stable Diffusion are basically the same algorithm (the latter is recreated from the published papers on the former), but they've been trained differently on different data sets. Stable Diffusion has a ridiculously massive corpus of images put together with total disregard for copyright law, so it has much broader general knowledge. Dall-e 2 has been trained for longer with more CPU power, so it tends to produce more natural images with fewer weird quirks. The Dall-e 2 model is currently private, with limited public access as a paid service with lots of strings attached. Stable Diffusion is fully open source with a license that says "don't do bad things" but is basically unenforceable.

The community is eagerly awaiting the public release of Stable Diffusion 1.5 in the next couple of weeks. It seems to be a massive leap forward over the current version with much fewer weird faces, but it still struggles with hands. Nobody knows why this is the case, because machine learning algorithms aren't really understandable to humans. They tend to improve in totally unpredictable ways and suddenly gain new abilities that nobody expected them to have. If that sounds worrying to you, I assure you that the machine learning community is more worried about it. We are compelled to create Skynet and we can't tell you why. Sorry.
>> No. 96736 Anonymous
12th September 2022
Monday 11:34 pm
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Oh, well. I've discovered search engines do the same. If you put a picture of a blonde lady into Google Images, it returns pictures of blonde women in different poses and contexts, but if you use Bing it returns you pictures that have similar poses and contexts, but not necessarily of blonde women. Then if you use baidu it's a mixture but they're all Chinese. I imagine this is to do with the way the algorithm interprets the image, going by overall appearance or by breaking it down into labels and returning things with matching ones.
>> No. 96737 Anonymous
13th September 2022
Tuesday 8:26 pm
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>The UK government could scrap its entire anti-obesity strategy after ministers ordered an official review of measures designed to deter people from eating junk food, the Guardian can reveal.

>The review could pave the way for Liz Truss to lift the ban on sugary products being displayed at checkouts as well as “buy one get one free” multi-buy deals in shops. The restrictions on advertising certain products on TV before the 9pm watershed could also be ditched. The review, commissioned by the new health secretary, Thérèse Coffey, is seen as part of the prime minister’s drive to cut burdens on business and help consumers through the cost of living crisis.

>Whitehall sources said the review was “deregulatory in focus” and is expected to lead to the new government jettisoning a raft of anti-obesity policies inherited from Boris Johnson, Truss’s predecessor in Downing Street. It will also look at possibly ditching calorie counts on menus in many cafes, takeaways and restaurants – designed to encourage people to choose healthier dishes – which only became mandatory in April.

>The review is so radical in scope that it may even look at whether the sugar tax, which began in 2018 and has helped make soft drinks much less unhealthy, should go too. Health experts have hailed the levy as a key initiative in the fight against dangerous obesity.

>“There doesn’t seem to be any appetite from Thérèse for nanny state stuff,” one source said. Truss also made Coffey her deputy prime minister after taking office last week.


Fatties in charge of health policy is something I can get behind. Fuck the sugar tax.
>> No. 96738 Anonymous
13th September 2022
Tuesday 8:37 pm
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>There doesn’t seem to be any appetite from Thérèse
I am alleging that the source did that on purpose.

And while I am pro-fatties in almost every way, the sugar tax always struck me as a good way to pay lip service to this website's frail pro-ana waifs without especially harming anyone who prefers to eat their sugar like a normal person.
>> No. 96739 Anonymous
13th September 2022
Tuesday 9:17 pm
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The discount Milky Bars are on me!
>> No. 96740 Anonymous
13th September 2022
Tuesday 9:34 pm
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Poster girl for metabolic syndrome right here.

Dead by 60
>> No. 96741 Anonymous
14th September 2022
Wednesday 12:18 am
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Honestly as a skinny person I've always hated these "healthy" taxes anyway. Why should I, a person with self control and responsibility, be punished for the lard-arses who can't stop shovelling Mars Bars in their gob? Sometimes I just want a can of coke without paying two fucking quid for it.

Tax fat, not food. Make fatties pay more NI.
>> No. 96742 Anonymous
14th September 2022
Wednesday 2:33 am
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>possibly ditching calorie counts on menus
fuck how am i gonna order food now without being able to find the highest calorie per £ item?
>> No. 96743 Anonymous
15th September 2022
Thursday 6:06 am
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>Kwasi Kwarteng, chancellor, is seeking to scrap Britain’s cap on bankers’ bonuses, introduced after the 2008 financial crash, in a controversial move to boost the City of London’s global competitiveness.

>Kwarteng argues the move would make London a more attractive destination for top global talent and would be a clear signal of his new “Big Bang 2.0” approach to post-Brexit City regulation, according to colleagues.

>Although no final decisions have been taken, people close to the chancellor’s thinking said he wanted to scrap the cap, introduced by EU legislation in 2014, as part of a package of City reforms. The UK has long opposed the EU bonus cap, which limits year-end payouts to twice a banker’s salary. For example, if a bank wants to pay someone £3mn in London, it would need to pay the person a salary of at least £1mn

>To alleviate criticism that he was helping rich bankers, the chancellor would set the move in the context of Britain’s recently announced £150bn state intervention to help families and business through the energy crisis. Kwarteng is delivering a mini-Budget next week and the Treasury said it would not comment on speculation ahead of a fiscal event. Some in the Treasury believe the chancellor could make a separate announcement on City reforms at a later date. Liz Truss has called the City “the jewel in the crown” of the British economy.

>Those briefed on the discussions say Kwarteng is anxious to boost London’s competitiveness against New York, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and Paris, which is offering tax incentives to attract top bankers. One financial executive said scrapping the cap would be a “clear Brexit dividend. Something you can present as a win”. The cap has been a particular annoyance for US investment banks that employ tens of thousands of staff in London. Wall Street typically includes large elements of annual performance-related bonuses and lower fixed salaries in its pay packages.

>> No. 96744 Anonymous
15th September 2022
Thursday 11:33 am
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But how is it helping families and small businesses? That's such a bizarre non sequitur: "Because we need to help families and small businesses, let's prostrate ourselves for international banking conglomerates."
>> No. 96745 Anonymous
15th September 2022
Thursday 11:46 am
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You could argue that making London a more attractive destination for the staff of multinational banks would increase growth and the tax base. Salaries and bonuses are very straightforward to tax, so the treasury is guaranteed to get 40% of most of it.

Still, it isn't exactly the kind of policy that has much appeal during a cost of living crisis.
>> No. 96746 Anonymous
17th September 2022
Saturday 12:43 am
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>> No. 96747 Anonymous
17th September 2022
Saturday 12:49 am
96747 spacer

hmm yes yes quite yes

(A good day to you Sir!)
>> No. 96749 Anonymous
20th September 2022
Tuesday 10:11 pm
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>The Treasury is refusing to publish a forecast of the UK's economic outlook alongside this Friday's mini-Budget.
>Independent forecaster the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has already provided a draft to Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng, the BBC understands.
>The draft forecast the OBR has provided does not include the impact of the energy bill help. It has offered to provide a forecast including this impact, but that has been rejected.
>The fact the offer has not been taken up is raising some concerns about whether the government's tax and spending policy is "flying blind", given predictions that the UK is facing a lengthy recession.

Does this happen often? Do governments often refuse to tell us just how bad it's going to get?
>> No. 96750 Anonymous
20th September 2022
Tuesday 11:29 pm
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See you on the streets October 1st buddy.
>> No. 96751 Anonymous
21st September 2022
Wednesday 1:23 am
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Forty years of neo-liberalism just not cutting through? Improvements to living standards taking place only due to technological happenstance? Companies earning all time record profits at great cost to the consumer? Try FULL IMPACT LIBERTARIANISM today! More of the same has to work, increased wealth hording can only benefit society and let's funnel public money to businesses at no risk of collapse, because by Jove, they earnt it!

We're going to experience the economic equivalent of rapid-onset-explosive-barotrauma.
>> No. 96752 Anonymous
21st September 2022
Wednesday 11:33 am
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>increased wealth hoarding can only benefit society
You do sometimes see things get done by people simply because they have so much money they don't know what to do with it. Look at Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos building spaceships. But it always feels like they're doing it just as a throwaway, like when you give your change to a beggar. I don't want a government that says the best way for us to become rich is for society itself to become dependent on the charity of its wealthiest.
>> No. 96753 Anonymous
21st September 2022
Wednesday 3:55 pm
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You know why that is? Because far, far more very rich people and multinationals hide away their dosh so the public purse never sees a penny of it. And don't forget that things like SpaceX are receiving billions in public money too. Elon's not taking invoices from his R&D department, he's just hustling NASA and using the unearned credit to run crypto scams and neglect his kids.
>> No. 96754 Anonymous
21st September 2022
Wednesday 4:44 pm
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>Because far, far more very rich people and multinationals hide away their dosh so the public purse never sees a penny of it.

That's not how this works. Income is taxable, capital gains are taxable, wealth is not taxable. It's absolutely reasonable to argue that we should tax wealth (although that's a lot more complicated than it looks), but it's a bit daft to criticise rich people for not paying taxes that don't exist.

>he's just hustling NASA

Boeing and Lockheed are hustling NASA. SpaceX have saved NASA massive amounts of money, because they provide launch services with better reliability and lower cost than any of the alternatives. SpaceX have certainly benefited from NASA contracts, but they offer a perfectly straightforward business proposition - you pay them money, they put your stuff into orbit.
>> No. 96755 Anonymous
21st September 2022
Wednesday 11:31 pm
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lol poll.png
Incredibly polling for Mrs Truss.

>daft to criticise rich people for not paying taxes that don't exist.
Yeah, I wasn't just talking about wealth though, was I? And I don't think that would be daft either, not when these people lobby and rig the system to make sure wealth won't ever be taxable.

How can you quantify the savings when SpaceX subsuming everything NASA used to do? Privatising space is awful on the face of it too, I can't abide it. Not content with having flushed our planet down the shitter, we're now doing the same with the rest of the Solar System.
>> No. 96756 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 12:17 am
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That's quite the devious chart you've got there. I mean, a lead is a lead, but the scale at the side is not what I thought it would be.
>> No. 96757 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 12:27 am
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Apologies, I thought the font was infamous enough. It's from The Dacre Propaganda Factory.
>> No. 96758 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 1:47 am
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I certainly recognise the style, but I don't ever look at the Daily You Know What so I assumed it was just a regular polling company.
>> No. 96759 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 9:54 am
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It's a VPN so no, sorry.
>> No. 96760 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 10:53 am
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>How can you quantify the savings when SpaceX subsuming everything NASA used to do?
They're not subsuming anything NASA used to do, at least not yet. NASA have always subcontracted out the vast majority of rocket construction and development out to third parties like boeing, who until recently have had a virtual monopoly leading to contracts where the price spirals ever upwards as the completion dates slip by years.
>> No. 96761 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 1:49 pm
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It's well beyond the scope of this thread but I have to wonder where NASA would be if they did everything in house instead of handing it over to (effectively) the MIC.
(The precedent that comes to mind for a government entity doing in-house vehicle-making is British Rail Engineering Limited.)
>> No. 96762 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 3:11 pm
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NASA is, first and foremost, an elaborate cover story. It incidentally does some science, but it's funded because it provides a good platform for highly secretive activities that are too big and too visible to be completely secret.

Spacelab wasn't created to do research, it was created to justify the peculiar configuration of the Shuttle. That configuration made absolutely no sense, except for the fact that there was a classified agreement with the National Reconnaissance Office to use Shuttle to launch and retrieve spy satellites. The Soviets built Buran as a copy of the shuttle because they presumed that anything that expensive must have been important, but they never really worked out what it was for; the mere existence of the NRO was classified until 1992.

NASA without the MIC isn't NASA. Hypothetically NASA could build launch vehicles just as cheaply as SpaceX, but nobody in charge would want it to - there are too many competing interests, too many things that the non-existent directors of non-existent agencies want to get done. NASA will keep working on vastly complex multi-decade projects that can cover up for all manner of other stuff.

Commercial space operations are convenient for the contemporary reality of the strategic exploitation of space. There are too many spy satellites in orbit to pretend that they don't exist, so they're now hidden in plain sight among the thousands of other satellites being launched every year. Starlink's massive constellation of small, inexpensive LEO communication satellites are a good fit for the newer generation of small, inexpensive LEO spy satellites.

I've got no idea why NASA are persisting with ULA, but I'm sure we'll find out eventually when the documents are declassified. I strongly suspect that Dream Chaser is being used as a cover for hypersonic glider development.
>> No. 96763 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 3:50 pm
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So what about Area 51? What are they up to?
>> No. 96764 Anonymous
22nd September 2022
Thursday 4:47 pm
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It's an MiB Bordello
>> No. 96765 Anonymous
23rd September 2022
Friday 10:46 am
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The basic rate of income tax for us all (who have jobs, anyway) has been SLASHED from 20% down to 19%! Hurray! But all the rest of this "mini-budget" is utter bollocks and there doesn't even seem to be anyone who thinks it's a good idea.
>> No. 96766 Anonymous
23rd September 2022
Friday 3:00 pm
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recession averted.png
We're back, baby!
>> No. 96767 Anonymous
23rd September 2022
Friday 3:35 pm
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>The basic rate of income tax for us all (who have jobs, anyway) has been SLASHED from 20% down to 19%!
I weep for all the secondary school kids who're going to have to deal with that bastard in maths class. Though I suppose it'll be offset by currency conversion getting easier as the £-$ exchange rate hits 1:1.
>> No. 96768 Anonymous
23rd September 2022
Friday 3:53 pm
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The basic rate tax band is £37,700 so 1% of that is a saving of £377.

It'd have been far simpler to achieve this by increasing the personal allowance by £1,885 so everyone benefits from this. Then again, Truss and co wanted to make a big deal out of reducing tax rates and this way would be better for high earners.
>> No. 96770 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 9:39 am
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Is it too late to be asked to be paid in US dollars?
>> No. 96771 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 11:05 am
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or turnips. Barter's coming, and I've got tonnes of firewood. This time next year, we'll be miwwionaires.
Fucking hell it's all circling the drain, isn't it.
Nah, I'm sure it'll be fine. Truss know what she's doing. Kwarteng's solid.
To be fair, isn't everywhere fucked, I think we're just leading the charge. I just need the dollar to stay (comparatively) high until March, please. After that, fuck'em all.
>> No. 96772 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 11:06 am
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What's the point? They're worth about the same.
>> No. 96774 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 2:07 pm
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Yeah, but to my knowledge the dollar is plummeting through the fucking floor right now.
>> No. 96775 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 2:08 pm
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It is? I thought it was currently being buoyed due to its status as a reserve currency in a time of global financial unease.
>> No. 96776 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 2:22 pm
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Sorry, I was eating a sandwich as I typed that. Horrible sandwich too.
>> No. 96778 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 2:40 pm
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An election is so coming. Wouldn't be surprised if it is this side of Christmas.
>> No. 96779 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 2:58 pm
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Tory leadership elections?
>> No. 96780 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 4:26 pm
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Letters going to the 1922 already? It's not even Halloween yet.
>> No. 96781 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 4:53 pm
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Bet she wishes another royal would die.
>> No. 96782 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 5:05 pm
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Are the Tory’s corrupt? Is there evidence for corruption? I’m asking in good faith, I’d like to learn more. I get the impression they are, but I can’t quite point to cold hard evidence.
>> No. 96783 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 5:08 pm
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>Millions of public sector workers face a two-year pay squeeze before the general election after Kwasi Kwarteng said he would go further in cutting taxes.

>The government has abandoned plans for a new spending review, despite forecasts that inflation may remain in double figures for the next year. This means that public sector workers will have real-term pay cuts before 2024 and schools and hospitals will have to make tough choices about budgets.

>> No. 96784 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 6:19 pm
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Somewhere out there is a timeline where Boris Johnson takes back the leadership and then wins a subsequent general election and as it's the funniest possible one, I hope we're living in it.
>> No. 96785 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 9:58 pm
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Current theory is that our Liz was engineered to be the shittest possible PM, in order for good ol' Borris to come back in under the banner of "There's always someone worse!". He then wins the next three consecutive GEs.
>> No. 96786 Anonymous
26th September 2022
Monday 10:30 pm
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They're absolutely bent as a nine bob note mate. You would have to be pretty naive to expect otherwise, honestly.

Remember the scandal last year just before partygate, where they tried to change the law about being a dodgy bastard to let one of their own off the hook for being a dodgy bastard? And that was just when one of them is daft enough to get caught; the thing about corruption is there are a great and insidious many ways to do it all in a manner that's technically above board, but ultimately still results in the subversion of our purported "democracy". Lobbying is little more than institutionalised corruption.

I mean shit just look at the people getting the contracts for all the procurement during the pandemic. They barely even bothered to hide it.
>> No. 96788 Anonymous
27th September 2022
Tuesday 9:34 am
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If they can get away with it.
>> No. 96795 Anonymous
27th September 2022
Tuesday 9:57 pm
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Their paymasters certainly are.

>Hedge fund managers including Crispin Odey are among those profiting from steep falls in sterling and UK government bonds as investors take flight on fears over the sustainability of the country’s public finances.


>A source who was present at a dinner attended by hedge-fund managers a week ago revealed: “They were all supporters of Truss and every one of them was shorting the pound.” Several made small fortunes on Friday betting against the currency.

>> No. 96799 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 10:55 am
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Have Truss or Kwateng done any press since this massive cock-up started? I know Kwateng did a Tweet saying he'd sort it at the end of November. But the rumoured fight between the two on Monday apparently centered around Truss not allowing Kwateng to do something to reassure the markets, so it seems government policy is radio silence while the economy is pulverised to oblivion.

Must be nice to be one of the other cabinet ministers right now. You could knock up a SPAD, get done for drink driving and successfully lobby the government for a half-a-billion quid contract for a company you're on the payroll of and only just make the news.
>> No. 96800 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 4:58 pm
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Daniel Hannan: No, the pound isn’t crashing over a trifling batch of tax cuts. It’s because the markets are terrified of Starmer.

>> No. 96801 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 5:10 pm
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You really shouldn't give people like that the attention they're so desperate for.
>> No. 96802 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 5:39 pm
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He's a member of the House of Lords, not some random pundit. The dominant faction of the Tory establishment has gone completely fucking mental and nobody knows what to do about it. Liz Truss is like a Tory Jeremy Corbyn, only she's actually running the country. A majority of MPs want to get rid of her, but they are a long way from coalescing around a suitable replacement. The party is fucked, Labour are going to win a landslide at the next election, but a lot of people within the Tory party are genuinely worried at how much damage Truss might do if they can't get rid of her sharpish.

I say this as a pro-growth centrist dad wanker - a big chunk of the Tory party has completely lost the plot, even by Tory standards. Boris has ruined the inner workings of the party in ways that'll take a generation to fix, which is great news for Labour but could be absolutely terrible in the short term.
>> No. 96803 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 5:56 pm
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>He's a member of the House of Lords, not some random pundit. The dominant faction of the Tory establishment has gone completely fucking mental and nobody knows what to do about it.
No, we know what to do about it. It's just that [checks notes] 28% of the electorate are still too fucking stupid for their own good.
>> No. 96804 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:01 pm
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By "nobody" I mean "nobody within the Tory party". The electorate have clearly made their minds up, but that doesn't help until we get a general election.
>> No. 96805 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:15 pm
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There will be an election in the not too distant future. There are lots of different ways it could play out, but in this kind of scenario, all roads lead to a general election.

A leader as unpopular as this can't effectively govern, and pretty much the only route she has to establishing a mandate is a general election. Truss could even forseeably call one herself, even if it is a guaranteed slaughter, she knows it's her only way of establishing authority (and she's thick enough to think she would stand a chance.) With enough of the party against her, it wouldn't be entirely out of the question to see a general no confidence vote- The party is in such a state right now that essentially handing over control until they can sort out their internal issues might even seem like the best option to many.

Either way it would be very surprising if there wasn't an election soon. Just like historic precedent showed us Bozzer was definitely on the way out despite surviving his no-confidence vote, it also shows us we're on the way to an election right now.
>> No. 96806 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:23 pm
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Everyone's freaking out about the pound dropping, so I feel obliged to play devil's advocate: Even if it signals a lack of confidence from currency markets, why immediately assume we're on the precipice of economic collapse? Why's nobody out there making the case that a fall in the pound is a good (or at least neutral) thing because it'll promote exports or such?
You can't work around the IMF's criticism so easily (though in a handwavey sense, you can point out they kill more economies than they save) but it's odd that everyone seems to be taking it for granted that we're headed for actual disaster, or in the midst of an actual crisis, rather than just a PR disaster for the government, or at worst a missed opportunity to steer away from an iceberg we were heading for anyway.

(Even the precedent most Labour-optimists would cite, Black Wednesday, is ill-fitting. It was a political disaster, but an economic blessing - granted, for a £1bn tithe - in disguise, hence the economy being in reasonably good shape when Blair came in.)
Bitter soul that I am, I had to check: Labour were polling better than this in 1990, and we all know how that turned out.
>> No. 96807 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:31 pm
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>With enough of the party against her, it wouldn't be entirely out of the question to see a general no confidence vote
Truss has a majority somewhere north of 70. You are not going to get a Tory MP to vote against their own government in a confidence vote. You are also not going to get a Tory MP to skip a confidence vote without a pair.
>> No. 96808 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:38 pm
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>Why's nobody out there making the case that a fall in the pound is a good (or at least neutral) thing because it'll promote exports or such?
Because there isn't a case to make. And someone at the Bank of England seemed to think that collapse was imminent.

>> No. 96809 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:44 pm
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>Truss has a majority somewhere north of 70

No, she doesn't. Boris did.
>> No. 96810 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:49 pm
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>Because there isn't a case to make
There's always a case to make in economic policy. If it's not working, you just say it's pain now for gain later combined with global circumstances. With that in mind, a pass mark to whoever this was:
>A minister has told Sky News' deputy political editor Sam Coates it is "bullsh**t" that today's market movement was related to the mini-budget announcement.
>They pointed to the Bank of Japan intervention as evidence of a global problem.
Because that'd be the kind of thing I'd have gone looking for when asked to explain away the BoE intervention - see, it's easy. Not particularly convincing, but easy.

It's a shame the Tories are such a boring version of evil sitting in power for the long haul. Japan's LDP has lost confidence votes it should've won handily on at least two occasions due to factions not supporting it in confidence votes.
>> No. 96811 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:50 pm
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Did a fuckload of Tory MPs resign the whip while we weren't looking? No? Then she's still got that majority.
>> No. 96812 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 6:56 pm
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Once again, there is plenty of historic precedent that you don't just inherit mandate, this situation has happened plenty of times before. That majority only exists on paper, in reality she is a crippled pigeon or whatever they call it.
>> No. 96813 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 7:07 pm
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>Why's nobody out there making the case that a fall in the pound is a good (or at least neutral) thing because it'll promote exports or such?

Because we've got a massive trade deficit and no possible capacity to remedy it. We have to import shitloads of stuff and we can't make enough stuff for export to make it up.
>> No. 96814 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 7:25 pm
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Surely the long-term effect of devaluation is to change incentives in a way that rectifies that? Your imports fall because, however much people want them, they can't pay for them, and your exports hopefully increase because your stuff is cheaper abroad than it used to be. One way of looking at it would be to identify the trade deficit itself as the problem.

(Obviously I'm oversimplifying here, leaving out that exporters can be buggered by devaluation if they're importing something, working on it, then exporting that, but the devil's allowed to oversimplify.)
>> No. 96815 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 8:21 pm
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The trade deficit widened after the Brexit vote even though the fall in Sterling should have made exports more attractive and imports less attractive.

IIRC, exporters were more interested in short-term profiteering rather than trying to gain a longer term competitive advantage and increase their market share through the falling currency.
>> No. 96816 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 8:28 pm
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Sure, in theory, but that's where you're going wrong. For that to be true you have to believe in the invisible hand of the free market as a magic self-stabilising gyroscopic mechanism in the true Thatcherite fashion. But it's not, and anyone with any sense knows it's not. You have to manage your economy, or else your economy gets eaten alive and your population are turned into povvos; which in turn means you'll eventually become a povvo, because your peasants won't be able to afford to pay you your tithe.

The clever, competent Tories, and most of our financial elites, know this. In an ironic kind of way, the bourgeoise are all closet Marxists in that sense. What's dangerous is when you get thickos like Truss, for whom the penny never dropped.
>> No. 96817 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 8:51 pm
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That and a large proportion of those who do export in this country are relying on other imports to a large extent as a part of their business, such as energy or raw materials, the increased cost of importing those things even before the current crises limited many companies ability to capitalise on the falling pound.
My company for instance is fairly successful importer, we're mostly just buying steel from Europe, adding a margin, and selling it to the USA and Asia.
>> No. 96818 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 8:56 pm
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*Exporter I meant
>> No. 96819 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 8:57 pm
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I've been wondering why nobody wants to play devil's advocate too. And you are, I assume, totally right that our exports are currently absolute bargains. But we import more than we export, so the net effect is a negative one.

Another thought I've had is that the Bank of England is now "stepping in" to save us all, and they're doing this by working against the government. They can do this because they're technically independent. So rather than have both the government and the Bank of England working together, as I assume they usually do, they're now pulling in opposite directions and deliberately trying to thwart each other's policies. I can't think of any way in which that can be a good thing.

But the thing that really surprises me most of all at the moment is the fact that the usually supine media are turning on the government. Some of the outright bootlicking tabloid newspapers are probably still backing Liz Truss, but the BBC has to be impartial as part of its charter, and when they can't be impartial they just parrot the government line since that's what we voted for, and right now that isn't happening. They're not quite into full "MONG LIZ RUINS EVERYTHING, THE DUMB BITCH" territory yet, but their phrasing has moved from "The government has defended its policies by pointing to bla bla bla" towards "Some people have criticised recent government policy, by calling the Prime Minister a mong and saying the dumb bitch has ruined everything. Now, let's interview the Leader of the Opposition to hear how he can do a better job." That's quite a noticeable change in my opinion.
>> No. 96820 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 8:57 pm
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>Surely the long-term effect of devaluation is to change incentives in a way that rectifies that? Your imports fall because, however much people want them, they can't pay for them, and your exports hopefully increase because your stuff is cheaper abroad than it used to be.

It's a matter of capacity. Our stuff being cheaper abroad only helps us if we can increase the amount of stuff we make.

If I run a British widget factory, a fall in the pound will have an immediate positive impact on my export profits, but it'll reduce my profits on domestic sales if I'm importing parts and materials.

I might want to ramp up production to take advantage of the weak pound, but I'll need more staff. At the moment the labour market is very tight, so there's no guarantee that I'll be able to recruit anyone, let alone someone with the right skills and experience. If I decide to offer higher wages to attract new staff, that's going to have an impact on all of my salary differentials - experienced staff aren't going to be happy about being on the same money as a new hire.

I'll also probably need machinery. Assuming I've got sufficient space on my shop floor to accommodate it, I almost certainly won't be able to buy that machinery from a UK manufacturer. If I can, that machine will be mostly made from imported parts, so I'll get bitten by a weak pound either way. With supply chains being as they are, I'll probably have to wait at least nine months for delivery, possibly much longer. I'm almost certainly going to buy that machine on credit for cashflow reasons, so I'll be hit by higher interest rates. Even if the sums add up in the short term, I'll probably be quite reluctant to make a major long-term investment based on a short-term fluctuation in exchange rates. If the pound rebounds quickly or interest rates continue to rise, I could end up with a white elephant.

We're mostly a service economy, but that just exacerbates the labour problem. An international law firm can't magic up a load of extra staff with experience in some specialised area of law and the right language skills. Even if you find the perfect candidate, it's likely that it'll take them many months to fully integrate into the company and possibly years to match the productivity of experienced staff. Prior to Brexit there was a reasonable chance of recruiting someone from the EU, but without that route it can take months just to get the paperwork sorted; anyone I bring in will have to pay thousands of pounds in fees to the Home Office. There is of course the intangible factor of people not wanting to come to a place where they don't feel welcome.

A sustained devaluation in sterling could have quite dramatic effects on the make-up of the British economy, but the currency markets can move much faster than businesses react. Gambling on volatility inevitably produces at least as many losers as winners. Investors hate uncertainty for good reason; this change in direction for British policy has come so suddenly and on such a large scale that nobody really knows what the country will look like next year, let alone in ten years time.
>> No. 96821 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 9:08 pm
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>But the thing that really surprises me most of all at the moment is the fact that the usually supine media are turning on the government.

They have been for a while now. I seem to remember calling it last year, I can't remember if I posted it here or was just chatting to mates, but I noticed around about the time of partygate that even the staunchly Tory papers like the Telegraph and Express etc were having a hard time toeing the line.

This is how I feel so confident to predict we'll have a Labour government within a year or two. Ultimately it's the press that decide elections in this country, and the press appear to have decided the Tories have had it.
>> No. 96822 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 10:09 pm
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>> No. 96823 Anonymous
28th September 2022
Wednesday 10:35 pm
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>Once again, there is plenty of historic precedent that you don't just inherit mandate, this situation has happened plenty of times before.
By all means, let us know of the last time a Conservative PM took the job mid-term and had 40 of their own MPs rebel on a confidence motion.
>> No. 96825 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 9:34 am
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We didn't deserve Rishi did we?
>> No. 96826 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 9:55 am
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She did the rounds on local radio this morning. By the end it was just getting cruel to the point where you'd wish someone would just euthanise her already.
>> No. 96827 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 10:20 am
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I would like apologise for previous statements suggesting the country needed a government at a time of national crisis, but in the correct thread this time.
>> No. 96828 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 11:35 am
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I still think the best Chancellor we've had under these Conservatives has been Philip Hammond. Rishi Sunak would have been ideologically very similar to Liz Truss; he's just competent as well as awful.
>> No. 96829 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 11:48 am
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Dumb Fascism. Oswald Mosley is PM but he talks like Spike Milligan on the Goon Show.
>> No. 96830 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 11:59 am
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To be fair to Sunak, he made all the right noises during the Covid pandemic. He went out of his way to reassure the City that his measures were temporary and targeted, and that he had a serious plan for how the debt would be managed. At the time, he was criticised for pandering to bankers during a national crisis, but Kwarteng has shown just how dangerous it is to have a loose cannon as chancellor. The markets aren't reacting to tax cuts - they're reacting to the threat that if this is a "mini budget", what will a full size budget look like?
>> No. 96831 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 12:23 pm
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So the bankers are all panicking and they're angry with the government. Kwasi Kwarteng had to go to a meeting with lots of top bankers yesterday to "reassure" them, and I think he will have had to beg them to get onside. Now, these bankers are all very powerful men. And we know what powerful men are like. So I can't help but wonder, do you think Kwasi Kwarteng sucked them off?
>> No. 96832 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 12:44 pm
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It wouldn't surprise me if that's all for show. A lot of them have done very well out of this fuck up.

When Truss was doing the rounds on the radio this morning she's been falsely stating that the maximum people will pay under the energy guarantee is £2,500.

>> No. 96833 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 12:54 pm
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>It wouldn't surprise me if that's all for show. A lot of them have done very well out of this fuck up.

It's definitely not all for show. Hedge funds have profited out of this crisis, but that's literally the point of hedge funds - they're designed to make less money during booms, but keep making some money during busts. They are very much unrepresentative of the City as a whole.

The Bank of England is spending £65bn on buying government debt because they're genuinely worried that pension schemes could go bust. That is inarguably a Very Bad Thing for the financial services industry as a whole, even if a minority of traders who specialise in short selling might do well out of it. There are some very clever people who are very good at profiting from chaos, but everyone else in the City prefers it when everything is going up in value and everyone is making money.
>> No. 96834 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 5:49 pm
96834 Alliance for Wankers Liberty
Since when does anyone worth listening to think economic policy should be run in the interest of the city? It'd be better if the confrontation between government and global capital was taking place because they'd nationalised everything larger than poundbakery and blocked the Thames with landlord skeletons, but if it's over the government's Edward Scissorhands attempts to play with their wallets then bugger it, critical support. We're going to hurt whatever happens, make them hurt too.
Yes you could use this line of argument to justify sinking the entire country to the bottom of the ocean like Atlantis. Yes, we'd offer critical support for that too...
>> No. 96835 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 6:18 pm
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>The markets aren't reacting to tax cuts - they're reacting to the threat that if this is a "mini budget", what will a full size budget look like?
They're reacting badly because the government fired top officials involved in coordinating with the BoE, announced a shitload of extra spending coinciding with a shitload of tax cuts amounting to a hole in the budget nearly a 100bn big, without any plans for how that would be managed, and gagged the OBR from releasing any forecasts relating to it. (And of course the only reason they've gagged the OBR would be because they only had bad news).

In other words they're reacting badly because the government is flying in the face of absolutely all advice from people who understand what they're talking about, in order to pursue a wet dream that might have barely been tolerated if it was done 10 years ago when borrowing was practically free.
>> No. 96836 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 6:29 pm
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>Since when does anyone worth listening to think economic policy should be run in the interest of the city?

Because the City looks after your money. Ask your mum about her pension, ask your first-time-buyer mates about their mortgage offers. The City isn't hurting from this, you're hurting, because they'll pass on the higher costs of capital and higher risk premiums.

What people don't understand is that there are two very different sides to the City. On the one hand, you've got the city boy stereotype, which definitely does exist - the mad gamblers, the corporate raiders, the people who have turned the City into a piggybank-cum-casino for oligarchs and tyrants. On the other, you've got a lot of very boring people who are essentially the old-fashioned bowler-hatted bankers without the bowler hats; they make very boring, very careful long-term financial decisions and spend most of their time worrying about risk.

The balance between those two tribes has swung over the years, but the vast majority of money that is managed by the City is managed by careful people for the benefit of the general public. People who are good at doing that can still make a lot of money, because a fraction of a percent of billions of pounds is a lot of money, but they aren't ripping anyone off, they're just providing a useful service that most people rely on. I'm not arguing that we should unconditionally trust the banking industry, just that most of it behaves in a trustworthy manner most of the time.

We've been badly let down in the past by financial regulators, but the post-2013 regime of the FCA/PRA is generally pretty on the ball and it's not easy to get away with pisstaking any more. What we're seeing on the financial markets at the moment isn't some kind of plot by greedy bankers, it's what happens when people who look after money for a living see the government do something that poses massive risks to the future prosperity of Britain. They're sounding the alarm that this government is pushing Britain towards the kind of ultra-high-risk economy that we usually only see in Latin America or South Asia, that the government is gambling with the entire British economy. For a very small part of the City that's great news, but for most of their business it's a disaster. The City has a centuries-old reputation for stability and prudence, which this government seems willing to squander. If they have to rebuild that reputation, it'll take decades and it'll harm everyone in Britain.
>> No. 96837 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 6:48 pm
96837 Labour surges to 33-point lead over Tories after Liz Truss budget ‘disaster

*toilet flushing sounds*
>> No. 96841 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 7:22 pm
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>> No. 96842 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 7:26 pm
96842 Alliance for Wankers Liberty
The structure of pensions at present seems so objectionable as to be worth taking the same scorched earth position on and I never expect to get a mortgage. As for the city: Why not leave its reputation in ruins and find a new comparative advantage in making cloth?

(Clearly I'm not really arguing for the things I'm saying. It's more a sort of attitude that I feel like people usually show, but are being very quiet about now that the Tories are on the receiving end. With a touch of the unspoken attitude it's impossible for Britain's living standards to fall below those of, say, Spain or Italy.)
>> No. 96844 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 7:35 pm
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>The structure of pensions at present seems so objectionable as to be worth taking the same scorched earth position on

Can you please expand and explain what you mean by this?
>> No. 96849 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 8:49 pm
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Why do you keep posting references to the AWL?
>> No. 96850 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 9:05 pm
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Keeping it brief: I don't like that it's a big wealth transfer from young to old done in the private sector, holding the retirement security of the old hostage to the performance of financial markets, determining the level of that retirement security in an unequal way, and creating all kinds of no-win situations if you pursue policy that markets just happen to not like. All while being so integrated with everything else that it would be all but impossible to radically restructure it all into a high-tax big-state-pension socialist paradise.

When you've got a less-than-ideal society that you're powerless to change and don't particularly expect to benefit from, it's satisfying to chat shit and say things like: Destroy the pension funds. That doing so would be nothing but harmful doesn't really matter because the pension funds being destroyed on my orders is even less likely than them being nationalised on my orders.

It's nothing against them specifically. It's just a joke that the kind of "why not just destroy it?" angle I presented is edgy student revolutionary stuff, so I'm not taking it too seriously and nobody else should either.
(Given the AWL has links with Labour, they're probably less likely than most to take this kind of angle.)
>> No. 96855 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 10:31 pm
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>> No. 96857 Anonymous
29th September 2022
Thursday 10:43 pm
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Jesus, it's like an episode of the Thick of it.

>> No. 96858 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 9:00 am
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I listened to the lot yesterday. It was pretty brutal, with Truss being caught completely dumbstruck maybe once per interview. Though the worst part for myself was the realisation she might well earnestly believe the nonsense she was coming out with.
>> No. 96859 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 10:47 am
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If my mortgage offer gets pulled before completion, I'm going to burn down the houses of parliament.
>> No. 96860 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 11:11 am
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Has anyone spoken to a John or Jane Voter who still backs Truss? I've heard the absurdity of the elite level defence of her torching the economy, but even the worst polls have the Conservatives garnering a quarter of the vote so someone must be buying it.
>> No. 96861 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 11:14 am
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Is now an awful time to get on the property ladder?
>> No. 96862 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 11:16 am
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Someone on the radio said that he had his pulled. It might happen.
>> No. 96863 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 12:17 pm
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From what I can gather, it's people largely shielded from the effects of this (or at least think that they will be). They have no debt so they welcome interest rates going up and boosting their savings. They think anyone who will struggle because of mortgage rates needs to learn personal responsibility and they should have prepared for this rather than stretching themselves as they had to cope with rates of 15%. Pensioners, in other words.
>> No. 96864 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 12:26 pm
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The only pensioners who are shielded from this are either on the basic state pension or have all of their pension as inflation-linked annuities. Everyone else is going to feel it, either through inflation or the dismal state of the markets. Even if you're doing very well, a tax cut is cold comfort when your investment portfolio is in freefall.
>> No. 96866 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 1:33 pm
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If you have your mortgage sorted, probably not. If you're going to have to apply for a mortgage now, maybe wait till next year. I've sent off the signed forms to buy my house so I could be utterly buggered, but as long as you don't see houses as investments and are willing to stay a little longer in the house you buy before you buy a bigger one, it's still a decent idea.
>> No. 96867 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 2:46 pm
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The part that has me on edge is that the banks can still pull your offer any time until you have the keys in your hands. And even then I wouldn't feel entirely safe, I'm sure there's something in all those pages of small print that says "we can and will make you homeless overnight if we want".

I'm at the stage of waiting for my Help to Buy bonus to come through, all the deeds and contracts have already gone through, it just needs completing when all the money's there. So needless to say I'm fucking tense about all of this. If it gets ripped out of my hands at this stage after all the stress it's already caused I might have a meltdown.
>> No. 96868 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 3:14 pm
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If you're a pensioner with an annuity, you probably don't have to worry about the markets as if your provider collapses entirely the Pensions Regulator will sort it out and you'll keep getting paid. If they have an inflation-linked annuity, their payments are going to increase.
>> No. 96869 Anonymous
30th September 2022
Friday 4:08 pm
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That's because you're buying a house. I think it feels that way for everyone. To be honest, my house is a dump which I'm buying because the offer was accepted once I decided to just make offers on every house, so if something goes wrong, I won't have an emotional breakdown at all. But I'm still terrified.
>> No. 96871 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 12:40 am
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I hate them all more than I could ever express. The sooner the Conservative Party fucks off back to it’s home planet, the better. But I don’t know if Labour can reverse all the harm done. Even without the government the forces of conservatism in the UK are powerful and vindictive in the extreme, and I fear a sticking plaster will be applied to wounds requiring so much more than that.
>> No. 96872 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 2:19 am
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The Express are turning against the Tories. GB News are turning against the Tories. Three separate polls have now given Labour the biggest election lead in modern British history. This is a seismic shift, only part of which is down to the sheer stupidity of Liz Truss.

The pandemic and the economic aftermath has fundamentally recalibrated British politics. The centre ground is now far more supportive of redistribution than at any point since the war. The overwhelming majority of the British public are worried about paying their bills. Mostly that's for unavoidable global reasons, but the Tories decided to elect a leader who couldn't give a fuck and seems hell-bent on making things worse. That has had the clear effect of radicalising a lot of people who just a few weeks ago might have considered voting Tory.

It's not just that people think that Liz Truss is shit, but that people have been turned against the entire basis for the last 12 years of Tory government. The sheer callousness of Truss has made moderate Tory voters feel cheated. It has made the economic arguments for austerity sound like bullshit to people who previously regarded them as simple common sense.

Labour are headed almost inevitably for a landslide victory. Starmer will take office with a shit set of economic circumstances, but he'll also have a clear mandate to radically undo the austerity agenda and rapidly return Britain to being a functioning social democracy.
>> No. 96873 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 2:44 am
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>It has made the economic arguments for austerity sound like bullshit to people who previously regarded them as simple common sense.

It is quite remarkable that it's taken so long for the veil to be lifted, but it's true. Even the likes of the Mail comment section seems to be able to smell the bullshit by now.
>> No. 96874 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 5:07 am
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>Labour are headed almost inevitably for a landslide victory. Starmer will take office with a shit set of economic circumstances, but he'll also have a clear mandate to radically undo the austerity agenda and rapidly return Britain to being a functioning social democracy.
Ha! You'll forgive my cynicism, but I'd like to get it out so I can look back on it: Any Starmer government will be even less radical than Blair. If anything, that's why he's soaring ahead - that nice mix of people who want change, and a press who know that if they let this one in, they can consolidate the "gains" of the last decade with a premier who'll radically re-balance society to... where it was in 2019. And if Starmer did try to go all social democratic... well, why should it only be Tory PMs who get swapped out every year or two at the behest of stupid backbenchers and a turncoat press? Isn't it time Labour gave us a female Prime Minister, after all?

(Not that I'd be any cheerier if Labour were running on a manifesto hand written by me, given all that would happen is that they'd do what they did last time i.e. 1974 - get buggered by an economy the Tories broke, ditch all their policies half way through parliament, then spend so long fighting about it that they wind up thinking Mrs. Thatcher was right.)
>> No. 96875 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 6:10 am
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>Labour are headed almost inevitably for a landslide victory.

I refer you to polling in 1990 and the outcome of the 1992 General election.
>> No. 96876 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 12:16 pm
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I reckon she also has a humiliation fetish, some points during the local radio interviews last week her voice was wavering like she was rubbing one out.
>> No. 96877 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 12:46 pm
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More support for my theory that Truss is autistic, I suppose.
>> No. 96878 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 1:24 pm
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She frequently wears what very much looks like a day collar, she is almost certainly a submissive in a kink-based relationship.

If her going for PM was part of a humiliation game by her partner I'd actually be fine with that. Imagine being such a sub slut that you'd be willing to destroy a country just to embarrass yourself for your master.
>> No. 96879 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 2:13 pm
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>> No. 96880 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 2:19 pm
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Had the Tories made quite as colossal of a mess of things in those circumstances? I wouldn't know, I was 2 years old, but I'm getting the feeling the turn against the Tories in this situation is a proper, genuine sea change in people's attitudes.
>> No. 96881 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 3:37 pm
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The nadir was Thatcher introducing the poll tax and the party trying to oust her, so not entirely dissimilar to where we are now with Truss. Major took over late November 1990, meaning if they get rid of Truss before Christmas they could have enough time to turn it around.
>> No. 96882 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 4:25 pm
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> meaning if they get rid of Truss before Christmas they could have enough time to turn it around.

Ousting Truss this soon after taking office would give even more strength to people's perception that the Conservatives are an increasingly disorganised bunch suffering from fatigue after twelve years in office. Despite all her many flaws, Thatcher served as Prime Minister uninterrupted for 11 years. John Major followed with still over six years in office. Voters like stability, and they have not been getting it in a meaningful way since at least 2016 when Cameron pissed his political career up the wall with the referendum.

Truss is increasingly looking like a sad joke, and I'm not sure that the loss of voter confidence the Tories have been suffering can be reversed by replacing her with yet another Tory PM just to attempt to ensure another Tory government two years from now.

Opposition isn't just what happens to you when you lose an election. It's also an opportunity to regroup and swap out personnel for fresh new faces so you'll have a better chance next time. I've largely voted Conservative all my life, but I think they could do with a few years on the opposition bench.
>> No. 96883 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 4:36 pm
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>Opposition isn't just what happens to you when you lose an election. It's also an opportunity to regroup and swap out personnel for fresh new faces so you'll have a better chance next time.
The problem for both parties is that the old, vaguely talented faces retire and get replaced by people who'd seem like downmarket leadership if they were deputy colleague manager in Iceland Clacton. Labour haven't exactly been hoovering in big hitters over the last 12 years, and there's little reason to think the Tories would be any different. The one thing you can say about Blair is that he'd be able to pass for PM in a film. Cameron was more of a Channel 4 made-for-TV affair, and it's all downhill from there.
>> No. 96884 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 4:39 pm
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This is why I think it's a real and drastic thing this time. Even Tory loyalists are seeing it like someone who's had a bit too much to drink on a night out and needs to go home before they hurt themselves.

It would be an exaggeration to imagine this doing permanent, lasting damage to the Tories as a political force, they'll regroup and be back under some young Eton twat who pretends to have modernised and makes a big deal of sending the likes of Rees Mogg packing to the back benches, but they've definitely had it for the near future.

Question is how long Starmer will last and what he will do wrong to throw it all away in another few years. Tony Blair would likely be remembered as one of the country's best ever leaders if he hadn't gone and done all that Iraq business. Starmer is a man so boring I can't even imagine how he will fuck up, but then, I suppose that's a good thing.
>> No. 96885 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 4:50 pm
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Here's some 4D chess: maybe, perhaps, the Conservatives can all see that the economy isn't going to go well over the next few years, so rather than try to fix it then lose anyway, they have decided to crash into a wall in a fiery explosion that Keir Starmer cannot possibly fix, and then Labour can have several years of not being able to fix things, and then everyone can go blue again in 2029 following a sustained campaign of, "Labour STILL haven't fixed our ruined public services, national debt, worthless currency, pensions crisis, productivity crisis and dependence on foreign gas!"

Of course, that indicates that as a consequence of 2008, this country will be fucked until 2029. I hope that isn't true. Especially when there's no reason to believe things will improve at all under the inevitable hot-girl white supremacist who will be leading the Conservatives by then.
>> No. 96886 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 5:07 pm
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Losing political parties rarely regain power again after just one term on the opposition bench, because especially when a party has been in power for a decade and more, the purge within its own ranks and the establishing of promising new figures takes longer than that. It has to do with the old cliques still continuing in the background and not fully wanting to relinquish power and letting new contenders rise, but also with the devastating impact that a lost election as such can have. You'll often have different party wings blaming each other for the debacle and being at odds for quite some time, which again makes it difficult for a new leadership to emerge. Also, unless a government really fucks it during its first term, voters tend to favour the new government even more during the following elections. And even if not, diminishing votes are usually not enough to overturn it again. The deposed opposition party is usually well aware of this, which leads to them often nominating one of their also-rans to run for PM, especially if the incumbent PM is a strong figure who is well liked by the people, which again hurts their chances in the election, but keeps their true hopefuls from suffering damage. Who are then rolled out as candidates when the incumbent government is showing signs of fatigue and dwindling voter support.
>> No. 96887 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 5:11 pm
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I think they'll be keen to get rid of her as a damage limitation exercise. Their chances of clinging on to power are slim, but if getting rid of Truss means, say, another 60 or so Tory MPs still have their jobs after the next election I can see them pushing for it to try and save their own skins. Someone safe like Tugendhat who could be relied on to try and steady the ship.

There is absolutely no way back from this for Liz Truss. She wasn't popular to start with, but people are already worse off thanks to her.

I don't think things are going to be as bad as is being made out, provided Truss doesnt have any other bright ideas. The media have a habit of making a lot of noise and causing people to panic.
>> No. 96888 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 5:25 pm
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>Tony Blair would likely be remembered as one of the country's best ever leaders if he hadn't gone and done all that Iraq business.
Sometimes I think that Iraq was a good thing for Blair. It keeps this line floating around so he can be half-defended on his domestic record, without looking at how he failed at implementing his own agenda. He failed to tie Britain and Europe more closely together, he failed to make Labour the natural party of government, and a glance at PISA scores suggests his record on education is at-best mixed. (That is to say: They're stagnant, but it's a selective measure.)
Now you can say he did devolution, lords reform, the minimum wage, and so on, but I'd give those a lower weighting because he wasn't personally enthusiastic about most of these things - they were someone else's agenda. Then all you're left with is peace in Northern Ireland (granted), and benign global economic circumstances. Even if you want to cheat and credit the government for the latter, independence for the Bank of England was Brown's agenda, not his. When you add it all up, you might get the best premiership on record - but only because a small number of pluses are hit with even fewer minuses. (Though the implication of this way of calculating it is almost certainly that Thatcher was our best leader. She lead us to hell, but nevertheless she lead...)

Mind you, it's not just Blair who has an odd reputation. It's so popular to insist that Gordon Brown would've been great but for 2008 that even the man himself is doing it. You'd half think that if the American banks hadn't wrecked it all, Mr. Prudence would've delivered the 2017 Labour manifesto a decade early. I suppose what I'm getting at is, perversely it can pay off for your reputation if you get shot in the foot. It takes you from boring to "but for..."

I don't think it's consciously planned, but if Labour take office I'm pretty convinced that's what will happen. Starmer named 4 "Labour Moments" in his speech - 45, 64, and 97. Conspicuous by is absence was the one most comparable to current circumstances: 74.
>> No. 96889 Anonymous
1st October 2022
Saturday 10:17 pm
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>The King, a passionate environmental campaigner, has abandoned plans to attend next month’s Cop27 climate change summit after Liz Truss told him to stay away. He had intended to deliver a speech at the meeting of world leaders in Egypt.

>Truss, who is also unlikely to attend the Sharm el-Sheikh gathering, objected to the King’s plans during a personal audience at Buckingham Palace last month. The news comes amid suspicion that the government may water down, or abandon, its environmental target to achieve “net zero” by 2050.

>A senior royal source said: “It is no mystery that the King was invited to go there. He had to think very carefully about what steps to take for his first overseas tour, and he is not going to be attending Cop.” They said the decision was made on the government’s advice and was “entirely in the spirit of being ever-mindful as King that he acts on government advice”.

>Charles is still determined to make his presence felt there, and how he will do that is “under active discussion”. A senior royal source said: “Just because he is not in physical attendance, that doesn’t mean His Majesty won’t find other ways to support it.”

>A source who knows Ch